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(USA Today)   The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission says EMPs are bad, so we should build a metal shield over our cities or some damn thing   (usatoday.com) divider line 236
    More: Scary, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, electrical grid, EMPs, terrorist attack, Energy Regulatory, electric company, emergency services, metal shield  
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12481 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2009 at 10:04 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-09-17 10:30:31 AM
us.macmillan.com

Guess someone finally read the book.
 
2009-09-17 10:30:45 AM
I don't know what all the fuss is about. The military is pretty-well shielded against this.

If a major State did this you pretty much have WW3, so you would have 20-30 minutes to gripe about more power before the real nukes arrived.

A terrorist couldn't do it since it requires a big nuke in high orbit. If a terrorist got a nuke, it would suck to live in NY, LA, Chicago, or Washington.

So this is really a non-issue since MAD will still be in effect after this.
 
2009-09-17 10:31:17 AM
images4.wikia.nocookie.net

Amused by emps.
 
2009-09-17 10:32:33 AM
or perhaps we could have a detection and alert system in place that would allow us to intercept an EMP delivery.

oh wait...poppin fresh (new window)
 
2009-09-17 10:32:47 AM
I can't be the only Seattle farkette up this early. Experience Music Project - C'mon people.
 
2009-09-17 10:33:05 AM
madgonad: So this is really a non-issue since MAD will still be in effect after this.

You tell them biatches that I never drive drunk, so just leave me the fark a lone and let me drink.. ESPECIALLY after the porn gets cut off.
 
2009-09-17 10:34:42 AM
The only thing that I'll have that will still work would be my 1950's tractor with not a single solid state device on it. Of course the top speed is only 14 MPH and it still uses Gas, so that might be a problem.
 
2009-09-17 10:35:19 AM
Terrorist with nuclear weapons and all they do is knock out the power?

Sweet!
 
2009-09-17 10:35:43 AM
SapperInTexas: The internet was designed specifically to defend against the effects of EMP during a nuclear strike. Course, if the power grid goes down, that kind of knocks the net out of commission, doesn't it?

/millions of pasty farkers clambering out of their basements, blinking and rubbing their eyes in the harsh glare of a new era.
//wolverines!


No, it's not. Virtually every repeater or node can be fried by an EMP. Actually the "size" of an EMP is largely about range, the effect as gamma rays excite electrons in the outer atmosphere is pretty similar for "smaller" attacks. And it's easily several times what any unhardened equipment can withstand.
 
2009-09-17 10:35:51 AM
i510.photobucket.com
 
2009-09-17 10:38:38 AM
AnEvilGuest: Terrorist with nuclear weapons and all they do is knock out the power?

Sweet!


And the internet, phones, your computer, TV, and pretty much all the manufacturing equipment that may constitute your job.

The real unknown is whether vehicles with computer controls (everything after mid-80's) will survive or not.
 
2009-09-17 10:38:41 AM
madgonad: So this is really a non-issue since MAD will still be in effect after this.

Yes obviously since they would be the ones to cause such an event, but how would Inspector Gadget be affected by the EMP?
 
2009-09-17 10:39:09 AM
pandabear: That's one of the reasons why two-generation old technology costing twelve times the price of modern equipment ends up in weapons systems. It is tested and hardened against temperature, dust, shock, humidity emp, microwave, fire, submersion fresh and salt, etc. etc. etc. And random samples out of every manufacturing lot are tested the same way. The military won't buy a freaking screwdriver unless it is tested to mil spec, just in case they end up having to use it in Antartica while under nuclear attack.

All farmed out to the lowest bidder who subcontracts to a vendor operating with a subsidiary out of China.

Ahh globalization.. ain't it grand?
 
2009-09-17 10:39:33 AM
OMg Firesale !!!
 
2009-09-17 10:40:34 AM
WorldCitizen: I've always wondered about how well the military and military equipment are protected against EMP weapons. Our entire modern military dominance is based on electronics. Wipe out our electronics, and we go from being the global power to an infantry power with no projection capabilities.

Well they do a lot there. Exactly how much intensity they can withstand, and how many pieces of hardware have been hardened at all is so totally classified.
 
2009-09-17 10:41:12 AM
Prank Call of Cthulhu: Well, I think the crucial thing to remember here that "the terrorists" keep showing an inability to understand how explosives work (combustion != explosion).

... and then ...

Great plans like "let's drive a Jeep with a propane cylinder in the back of it into a security bollard at an airport, then run around on fire till a bystander kicks our asses"

I just wanted to point out that, for starters, THIS... but before I even finished your first sentence this was the first incident I thought of. It's almost like the fraternity of terrorism has already used up it's best and brightest and now they're deploying the B teams.

That or counter-terrorism teams are letting the most dumbassed of dumbass plots get to their zenith just to make being a terrorist embarrassing.
 
2009-09-17 10:41:56 AM
In a society where virtually everything has a vulnerable transistor, or an IC, I would say EMPs are a threat not to be taken lightly. A poor man's EMP bomb, called an explosively-powered flux compression generator, could devastate a city's infrastructure if coupled with a proper antenna.
Then, of course, you simply let humanity's panic reaction do the rest of the work..
 
2009-09-17 10:42:59 AM
(screen cuts into super move) MAGNETIC....SHOCKWAVE

(MvC2)

/nothing is obscure
//just built a mame
///slahezzzzzzzz
////more slashezzzzzzzz
//filler
//hot like a triple hyper viper beam to 2 of your characters
 
2009-09-17 10:44:20 AM
EMP are my wife's initials. We are definitely using those when we start her design firm - I think they have a nice ring.

/totally relevant
 
2009-09-17 10:44:22 AM
dittybopper: some attorney: Sybarite: Or the terrorists could just leave us alone and watch as our aging power grid collapses on its own.

Honestly, were you worried about Y2K?

I was, kind of, but then I had just spent a year fixing that damn problem for my employer at the time. I had to manually check and re-write some 600+ individual programs.


My point. Maybe the grid is bad. Dunno. But someone will take care of it. No way the power companies with their slew of lobbyists is going to let us go unplugged.
 
2009-09-17 10:44:37 AM
StrikitRich: Guess someone finally read the book.

That book sucked.
 
2009-09-17 10:44:50 AM
Our electronic grid is so old and antiquated that an EMP is the least of our concerns. Just look at what happened in the blackout of 2003 that took out power to the NE states.
 
2009-09-17 10:45:07 AM
And this has been true ever since the Soviets got the bomb. So why should I care?
 
2009-09-17 10:45:18 AM
Yeah, yeah, now they have to spend billions on something to fix the problem. I know, they are always coming up with excuses to spend money.

1. Think of a threat (real or imaginary)

2. Create buzz on the media... (OMFG we're all gonna die!!!)

3 Profit!


/My cynical side is really acting today. Sorry.
 
2009-09-17 10:46:06 AM
I love how everyone is all over this, but no one gives a shiat about the potential for a massive solar flare like the one that happened in the late 1800s. Same god damn problem here, except the solar flare is guaranteed to happen, a terrorist attack isn't.
 
2009-09-17 10:46:41 AM
My wife and I had this discussion with some friends a few weeks ago over dinner. He works for the US govt as a monitor of nuclear weapons worldwide. He said this argument makes no sense. The strength of an electrical pulse decreases rapidly with the distance. So any explosion far enough to send a field over a large distance would send a very weak field, far too weak to overload the electrical grid. It's probably some new defense department strategy to get funding. Keep us scared and we'll gladly let them spend our tax dollars.
 
2009-09-17 10:46:50 AM
Terrorists? No.

Solar flares, on the other hand...
 
2009-09-17 10:47:07 AM
They don't need to detonate anything... it's much easier than that.

Detailed article

Layman's article



Claude Ballse: If this is true, then why in the hell are we giving terrorists ideas for the most devastating attacks?!

You know who else might benefit from information like that? The people who need to protect things. You can't base your security on the hope that no one ever finds out about your vulnerabilities; if they ever do, you're completely screwed.

In other words, you can't fix a problem if you don't know it exists.
 
2009-09-17 10:47:15 AM
Sybarite: Or the terrorists could just leave us alone and watch as our aging power grid collapses on its own.

Came here to say this. We're going to have enough trouble just from our own laziness.
 
2009-09-17 10:47:51 AM
I'll be more afraid of a solar flare
 
2009-09-17 10:47:59 AM
I sit in a cubicle and I update bank software for the 2000 switch.

What's that, you ask?


Well see, they wrote all this bank software, and, uh, to save space, they used two digits instead of four. So, like 98 instead of 1998? Uh... so I go through these thousands of lines of code and, uh... it doesn't really matter. I uh... I don't like my job, and, uh... I don't think I'm gonna go anymore.
 
2009-09-17 10:48:01 AM
nitefallz: I love how everyone is all over this, but no one gives a shiat about the potential for a massive solar flare like the one that happened in the late 1800s. Same god damn problem here, except the solar flare is guaranteed to happen, a terrorist attack isn't.

Just beat me to it... I was going to say, isn't this a much better added benefit of this plan?
 
2009-09-17 10:48:26 AM
An EMP attack would do to America what the a-bomb did to the city of Hiroshima.

"After 1 year 90% of the American population is dead and there are only 25,000 people still alive in New York City"
 
2009-09-17 10:48:36 AM
IdBeCrazyIf: pandabear: That's one of the reasons why two-generation old technology costing twelve times the price of modern equipment ends up in weapons systems. It is tested and hardened against temperature, dust, shock, humidity emp, microwave, fire, submersion fresh and salt, etc. etc. etc. And random samples out of every manufacturing lot are tested the same way. The military won't buy a freaking screwdriver unless it is tested to mil spec, just in case they end up having to use it in Antartica while under nuclear attack.

All farmed out to the lowest bidder who subcontracts to a vendor operating with a subsidiary out of China.

Ahh globalization.. ain't it grand?


Not exactly. Price is generally 20% of the submission determinate. Experience, business size, and ability to perform also help. Because I could submit a $20 bid for the "Space Fence" they have been asking about for some 4 years. But obviously, I wouldn't be selected.
 
2009-09-17 10:49:28 AM
Sybarite: Or the terrorists could just leave us alone and watch as our aging power grid collapses on its own.

Winner: Sybarite.

Thread: over.
 
2009-09-17 10:51:23 AM
pandabear: States capable of making such an attack on the US at the moment--Russia, UK, France, China.

I'd be a lot more worried if I was Japan, Pakistan, India, or Israel.


I believe North Korea is the problem here. The missile technology, even a limited number of nukes would be totally unmatched. It really takes sophisticated guidance and MIRVs to do a major blow. They're nowhere near, and never will.

But, if they can get high enough, 250 mi altitude with even a pure fission weapon (not thermonuclear H-bomb) will pretty much fry everything in the country. That's the best information that science has warned about.

This is more effective on several fronts:
1. No sophisticated nuke needed
2. No reentry vehicle needed (that's a surprisingly hard part)
3. Less political fallout, because they didn't harm a single person directly.
4. Absolutely devastating to civilization. The military can still retaliate in the short term, but in the long term, without a functioning economy and very likely a starving populace, we're pretty screwed.
 
2009-09-17 10:51:30 AM
Imagine there's no EMP

blog.sellsiusrealestate.com
 
2009-09-17 10:51:52 AM
static.episode39.it

approves
 
2009-09-17 10:51:53 AM
A metal dome over all the cities is just not practical. Maybe we could all just do the sensible thing and make personal metal domes for our own heads. If only there were a cheap, readily available material that any of us could use to make such a "head dome."
 
2009-09-17 10:51:54 AM
The Z Spot: nitefallz: I love how everyone is all over this, but no one gives a shiat about the potential for a massive solar flare like the one that happened in the late 1800s. Same god damn problem here, except the solar flare is guaranteed to happen, a terrorist attack isn't.

Just beat me to it... I was going to say, isn't this a much better added benefit of this plan?


An EMP is the least of this guy's problems...

www.watchmoviestreaming.com

/hot like a solar flare
//movie sucked
 
2009-09-17 10:53:13 AM
Yes, but when do we panic? Will someone tell us?

I'll just start now to be safe...
 
2009-09-17 10:53:36 AM
I've seen that movie, shiatty ending.
 
2009-09-17 10:53:40 AM
PsyLord: Our electronic grid is so old and antiquated that an EMP is the least of our concerns. Just look at what happened in the blackout of 2003 that took out power to the NE states.

the NE states have like a 1890s power grid.

the SE states have like a 1930s/40s power grid

the western states have like a 1950s power grid.

So since the NE just had to have power first you get the lamest most out of date grid.
 
2009-09-17 10:53:44 AM
This is fearmongering by the Govt.

If I'm a terrorist or an enemy state, am I going to detonate a nuclear bomb 25 miles in the air and knock out the power (but not to the U.S. Military - they've got hardened equipment) or am I going to target downtown New York or L.A and maybe kill millions?

Hmmmmm.....
 
2009-09-17 10:56:14 AM
I hope our civilization collapses, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2009-09-17 10:57:01 AM
When talking about terrorism this is a fantastical and utterly unlikely scenario. These are NOT folks with access to the sophisticated weapons or technological systems they'd need to do this. And even if they managed - through some unlikely miracle - to procure something they could use to produce an EMP that could do more than fry the computer of the house it's set off inside of then they still would need a suitable delivery system. And if their EMP generating device was a nuke then they'd just use the nuke to actually, you know, nuke a city.

No, the only way an EMP could realistically be a concern is either due to natural causes (such as a massive solar storm) or attack by a major nation.
 
2009-09-17 10:58:21 AM
I'm set up good to go even if the Grid goes down.

Who run Barter Town?
 
2009-09-17 10:59:15 AM
My Lincoln Continental has a GENERATOR instead of an ALTERNATOR.
I read my car would will work in case of an EMP.

Now I need zombie proof it and my house.
 
2009-09-17 10:59:28 AM
We're assuming terrorists forego large human casualty count and instead take up a smarter, more humane and "greener" approach, protecting our precious planet. Detonating a nuke above the earth - compliments of your evironmentally-friendly terrorists.

*group hug*
 
2009-09-17 10:59:49 AM
I've seen that movie, shiatty ending.

A masterpiece.
 
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