also, werent their california bicycle licenses back in the 80s? I think this is old wharrgarble bein rehashed here.

thisisarepeat Quote 2009-09-13 02:37:08 AM
spookidooki: Cyber_Junk: not wearing the pavement down

Also, that.

If everyone is riding bikes... you don't have to build roads as often/as expensively.

Oh yeah, lets roll the clock back to a 15mph world! What are you farking Amish?


There's no farking Amish. They don't tend to sleep around.

/although it would make for a very different pron site

When I lived in England no bicyclist followed the bicycle path near the side walk like they were supposed to, or stay in the zebra divider zone. I'm glad that they are taxing these ass holes. They have tried to make accommodations and they don't follow the rules.

What a bicycle path looks like in England.



/Hot
//This isn't the only type.

bhcompy: Bicyclists must think their bike is like the bus in Speed, because I can think of no other reason for their aversion to a complete stop.

Ummm..it's called having to pedal to get started again.

Pop another six-pack and mull that over a while.

bhcompy: Smarshmallow: bhcompy: Except that you don't pay vehicle taxes per person. You pay them per vehicle. Roads have use taxes from the federal level on down(gas taxes). Bicycles are vehicles and use the resources paid by those taxes.

I pay sales tax on my food, which I use to fuel my bike.

Hurr. Same could be said about a car. They don't drive themselves do they

Food does not fuel the car. Anyway, the point, which you missed, is that paying gas tax is not the same as paying road use tax. Gas tax is just that, gas tax. It has no bearing on where or how you use that gas. If you use it in your lawnmower, it's still taxed.

xuanzhiyouxuan: I would like to point out how you bikers treat us pedestrians with the same disdain as car-drivers treat you. Please show some respect to us pedestrians.

Get an umbrella, a pointy one.

bhcompy Quote 2009-09-13 02:39:03 AM

And increasing danger to pedestrians?

(citation needed)

LavenderWolf: StickyResin: The bicycle just doesnt have a place as transportation in modern society. You cant ride it on the sidewalk as its against most cities' ordinances(*). You cant ride it on the street or you are a traffic nuisance.

And to all cyclists: Dont pretend like you dont know why drivers hate you. Hint: It has nothing to do with how gay you look riding a bike. You can shrug it off or be a selfish prick and not care, but dont come into these threads acting like you dont know how farking annoying you are to every driver stuck behind you.

(*) I really dont understand why you cant ride a bike on the sidewalk given the alternative. It would have to be a pretty damn crowded sidewalk for there to be a potential for collision.

/I know, i sound fat.

You're full of shiat too. Nobody in their right mind runs a red light, no matter what vehicle. If someone's cutting across traffic and running red lights they WILL get hit.

/anti bicyclists are so full of shiat

Lol, you're the one who is truly full of shiat Lavender. I've personally run a red light on a bicycle before, when I was about 12. Yeah, I got hit, it was my own damn fault. Dude felt sorry but I knew I made the mistake, and I wasn't hurt, so I got back up and went along my way (was a city road so the speeds weren't too terribly high). And I've personally witnessed both cars and bicyclists run red lights, it happens. To say it never happens is simply being ignorant to man's stupidity. I'm not sure what world of bunnies and silver linings you live in, but it certainly isn't planet Earth.
/However, I will agree cars have a much higher tendency to run red lights that cyclists do

Cyber_Junk: although it would make for a very different pron site

I bet its been done. Probably as authentic as "first time" pron, but done all the same.

bhcompy: Err, not really. They'll slow down, peek, and then keep rolling if it's clear. Red light or stop sign be damned. Occasionally a cop will be camping a stop sign to get those California rollers and will get the moron, but more often than not it passes unnoticed and unpunished.

OK, so what's the problem with this? Who is being harmed?

A bike is able to see and react to traffic better than a car. I can see an intersection well in advance. Riding through my quiet residential neighborhood, I will confess that I treat stop signs like yield signs. Pretty much like I do walking. If I walk up to an intersection, I seldom stop completely, look left, then right then left again. I look while walking, and keep walking.

I will also jaywalk across an empty street.

I will do neither if there is any cross traffic. I will never take the right of way if I don't have it, even when cars sometimes try to wave me through.

I'll also go through the occasional red light, usually because they work on sensors that don't detect bikes. So don't tell me I have the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else, because I clearly don't.

Bikes should ride visibly, predictably, consistently, and should always yield to traffic with the right of way.


Beyond that, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

Smarshmallow: bhcompy: Smarshmallow: bhcompy: Except that you don't pay vehicle taxes per person. You pay them per vehicle. Roads have use taxes from the federal level on down(gas taxes). Bicycles are vehicles and use the resources paid by those taxes.

I pay sales tax on my food, which I use to fuel my bike.

Hurr. Same could be said about a car. They don't drive themselves do they

Food does not fuel the car. Anyway, the point, which you missed, is that paying gas tax is not the same as paying road use tax. Gas tax is just that, gas tax. It has no bearing on where or how you use that gas. If you use it in your lawnmower, it's still taxed.

That may be the case in England, but in California the gas tax was implemented specifically to provide funding for roads and bridges. Of course the politicians have a nasty habit of plundering that money and letting our roads deteriorate then suggesting a bond issue to fix the problem.

LavenderWolf: . I'm living in a big city now and nobody does that.

really?

is there a Critical Mass group in your area?

thisisarepeat: xuanzhiyouxuan: I would like to point out how you bikers treat us pedestrians with the same disdain as car-drivers treat you. Please show some respect to us pedestrians.

Get an umbrella, a pointy one.

Perhaps like this one?

brainiac-dumdum: LavenderWolf: . I'm living in a big city now and nobody does that.

really?

is there a Critical Mass group in your area?

Oh! Critical Mass!!! Once a month, some douchebags go out and act like douchebags on bikes!! All cyclists are therefor douchebags all the time!!!

FWIW, I've paid a bicycle tax in the USA, in more than one place. Most cities actually do require registration of bicycles -- it's just not very widely enforced.

(It's actually to the cyclists' advantage, as the fees are minimal and they record frame serial numbers, which can be critical for getting a bike back if it's stolen.)

As for whether we cyclists ought to pay an annual fee: I'm not dead-set against it, but I worry that it won't bring in much more money than it costs to administer it. Given that bicycles really don't cause much wear on the driving surface (compared to cars and /especially/ to large trucks), and that it's comparable wear to someone walking while being much more efficient...

Smarshmallow: brainiac-dumdum: LavenderWolf: . I'm living in a big city now and nobody does that.

really?

is there a Critical Mass group in your area?

Oh! Critical Mass!!! Once a month, some douchebags go out and act like douchebags on bikes!! All cyclists are therefor douchebags all the time!!!

wow, are you covered in Ritalin-addled fire ants right now?

Reflecting on this, the people for whom this won't work well are not people like me who ride a lot, but those who might dust the ol' bike off a few times a year to go ride around the lake or get some ice cream with the kids.

You CAN buy gas for off road use, but it would be such a pain in the ass that you would have to be pretty farking retarded to go to the trouble for your lawnmower.

/farking pigs threadjack
Today I was slowed down because there were three (3) farking cop cars blocking a lane on the highway because they had some poor bastard pulled over for trying to travel cross country on a riding lawnmower, towing a little lawn mower trailer full of bum luggage. Talk about a waste of gas/food.
/end threadjack

The Onanist: If you ride a bike, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Subby loves tax
must be a libtard socialist demonocrat hillary rug muncher

// sorry for quoting your post here, it was just my favorite, added you to my favorites, that was cool, who write that ?
/ if you wrote that, I have to find a new way to double favorite (is that an ultrafark feat... carrier dropped

RockIsDead: bhcompy: Bicyclists must think their bike is like the bus in Speed, because I can think of no other reason for their aversion to a complete stop.

Ummm..it's called having to pedal to get started again.

Pop another six-pack and mull that over a while.

Big farking deal. I gotta move my foot in front of the other when I walk to store. Takes a little extra energy, but considering you're an avid biker, you're in shape enough to deal with it.

Smarshmallow:

Food does not fuel the car. Anyway, the point, which you missed, is that paying gas tax is not the same as paying road use tax. Gas tax is just that, gas tax. It has no bearing on where or how you use that gas. If you use it in your lawnmower, it's still taxed.

Gas taxes are effectively road use taxes. The primary use for gasoline sold at a gas station is for motor vehicle operation, and it is for the primary use that the tax exists. Lawnmower operation is way down the list and I'd be willing to bet uses a negligible amount of gallons on a national scale. The sales tax on that food you bought, which provides fuel for you to be alive(not your bike), does not go into roads, at least to a degree that gas taxes do(70% of the road budget federally).

StickyResin: You can shrug it off or be a selfish prick and not care, but dont come into these threads acting like you dont know how farking annoying you are to every driver stuck behind you.

I like how he calls cyclists selfish pricks because they inconvenience him.

GoSurfing: I don't have cyclist hate, I just think that since I DO share the road...they should share the cost.

Registering bikes will add income, and again, from the standpoint that a bicycle IS a vehicle...I don't see the big deal. You want to share the road, you want your bicycle to be considered a vehicle, well, prepare to pay for it.

Especially since in most of the UK they have their own lanes. When they have to do up keep on the road, it's the whole of the road, bicycle lane included.

Daddakamabb: When I lived in England no bicyclist followed the bicycle path near the side walk like they were supposed to, or stay in the zebra divider zone. I'm glad that they are taxing these ass holes. They have tried to make accommodations and they don't follow the rules.

It doesn't excuse all cyclists, but I'll point out that the only time I've ever been hit by a moving vehicle was... on a bike path. The problem is that they're still rare enough that people don't look for them, hence don't expect bicycles.

Ideally, we could all share the same road: have decent shoulders for bicycles, or at least frequent pullouts. Honestly, I've been a casual biker for 25 years, and 10 of those were with the bicycle as my primary means of transportation. I've ridden on everything from singletrack to interstate highways (really!), and never been hit, and only once ever even had someone yell at me. (They had plenty of room -- hooray for Texas highways -- but they were freaked out that a bike was on the highway ramp at all. I wouldn't normally have done that, but it was the only way across the river at that point...)

Sadly, there are a lot of careless / selfish cyclists out there, and even more selfish drivers. The only cure is time, and hopefully more and more people will simply chose DBAD

Slartibartfaster: who write that ?

oops

wrote
if there are others, I blame the merlot

Although I already said I'd be happy to pay a reasonable amount for biking, I feel I should point out that I already pay a lot for roads via other taxes. Depending on the jurisdiction, gas taxes pay only 40-60% of road costs.

one source via quick googling:
http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/032Spring/02provocateur.html

tkil:
Given that bicycles really don't cause much wear on the driving surface (compared to cars and /especially/ to large trucks), and that it's comparable wear to someone walking while being much more efficient...

Bicycles actually cause less wear than someone walking. Well, on trails anyway. Read a very interesting article a while back.

bikerific: bhcompy: Err, not really. They'll slow down, peek, and then keep rolling if it's clear. Red light or stop sign be damned. Occasionally a cop will be camping a stop sign to get those California rollers and will get the moron, but more often than not it passes unnoticed and unpunished.

OK, so what's the problem with this? Who is being harmed?

A bike is able to see and react to traffic better than a car. I can see an intersection well in advance. Riding through my quiet residential neighborhood, I will confess that I treat stop signs like yield signs. Pretty much like I do walking. If I walk up to an intersection, I seldom stop completely, look left, then right then left again. I look while walking, and keep walking.

I will also jaywalk across an empty street.

I will do neither if there is any cross traffic. I will never take the right of way if I don't have it, even when cars sometimes try to wave me through.

I'll also go through the occasional red light, usually because they work on sensors that don't detect bikes. So don't tell me I have the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else, because I clearly don't.

Bikes should ride visibly, predictably, consistently, and should always yield to traffic with the right of way.


Beyond that, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

In my state, bikes are required to follow traffic laws as if they were motor vehicles. Considering bicyclists want to(and do) utilize the roads, this should be the case. Traffic laws exist for your and my safety. Violating them arbitrarily puts everyone at risk and undermines the law.

Cyber_Junk:

Yes and the amount of resources that bicycles consume is minuscule in comparison to the wear that powered vehicles consume. Cyclists should be getting a tax rebate for reducing congestion on the roads.

Bike, car, or triple wide semi trailer are all part of the congestion problem. Some are worse than others, but all of them are contributing players.

Your 'tax rebate' is packaged into avoiding fuel taxes and (sliding scale) registration fees by cycling instead of driving. Powered vehicle owners and operators already pay your share of road maintenance costs at no cost to you at all. All this proposal is doing is asking that cyclists pay their share of those maintenance costs.

I mean, I can understand not wanting to pay ridiculous taxes for crap, but the money to pay a dozen tweekers to rake asphalt and install street lights every 5 years should come from everyone that uses those roads on a regular basis. Most if it is still going to come from the largest vehicles as it should, but that doesn't mean that the lightest/smallest vehicles should get away without paying anything at all.

Unless bike riders plan on not using any paved roads with their bikes ever again, it's only fair that they chip in to help keep them maintained.

bikerific: bhcompy:
OK, so what's the problem with this? Who is being harmed?

The biker, when a car hits him because he was running a light.

(Except in california, where the biker can sue for breaking the traffic laws and getting hit.)


A bike is able to see and react to traffic better than a car.

Bullshiat. You perhaps can have more time to react to traffic, given how much more slowly you go, but your options to react to it are much more limited (also because of how much more slowly you go).


Riding through my quiet residential neighborhood, I will confess that I treat stop signs like yield signs. *snip* So don't tell me I have the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else, because I clearly don't.

Translation: "I don't want to follow the law."

YOU are the problem.

RockIsDead: bhcompy: Bicyclists must think their bike is like the bus in Speed, because I can think of no other reason for their aversion to a complete stop.

Ummm..it's called having to pedal to get started again.

Pop another six-pack and mull that over a while.

The horror! I will hereby make it my personal crusade to see to it that no cyclist in this country is ever made to suffer the cruel indignity and tragic inconvenience of having to pedal his bicycle while he's out farking up traffic ever again.

Slartibartfaster: must be a libtard socialist demonocrat hillary rug muncher

we're just trying to drive out the selfish assholes, after y'all leave all taxes will be abolished, and a strict immigration policy will be put in place.

bhcompy: Gas taxes are effectively road use taxes

bikes CAN (but are not allowed) to ride on footpaths, how much footpath tax do you want
truck/trailers use VASTLY more road (wear and tear on the road, area used of the road, and total miles used) ..... Im personally grateful for the truckers, fundamentally important industry, that is currently getting jacked on the other side of this exact same equation

Cars use vastly more tha bikes (in fact without the bike lanes, the effect of the bikes on the roads are negligible, and bikes can and would often prefer not using the road). Bike riders pay federal and state, and municipal tax for general infrastructure.

bikes do NOT use the roads like any other vehicle (thats freaking dangerous, some a-holes do it, but that is our species, sometimes we suck)

tax that ? wanna have a tea party ?
(wont be the first time that has happened against a british tax right ?)

Slartibartfaster: Slartibartfaster: who write that ?

oops

wrote
if there are others, I blame the merlo

The Beatles, "Tax Man"

RockIsDead: bhcompy: Bicyclists must think their bike is like the bus in Speed, because I can think of no other reason for their aversion to a complete stop.

Ummm..it's called having to pedal to get started again.

If you have a problem pedaling, you shouldn't be riding a bike. Just an FYI.

City people sure are mean. I occasionally see bike commuters in my little town and it doesn't seem to cause any problems.

paygun: City people sure are mean. I occasionally see bike commuters in my little town and it doesn't seem to cause any problems.

damn straight, stay away

EL_FABREZ: It'd probably be easier to get more money if you pulled bikers over for traffic offenses.

I am a very regular cyclist and I fully support this idea. I stop at red lights, obey the speed limit, do not use sidewalks and signal/turn appropriately. If I break the law and am caught, I should have a chance to be penalized/cited just like a motorist.

That being said, I should also be given any and all courtesies and considerations that motorists get.

I'm also beginning to think there are plenty of jerks on here with enough negative emotions toward cyclists to be charged with a hate crime if they were ever to do anything with that anger. Not saying all of it is unwarranted, but some of us pedaling fools are perfectly willing to share the road and not act like we own it.

I always like the fark links that involve some jackass biker breaking the law. getting clipped by a car and waking up in the hospital with a ticket for being a jackass.

You are 200 lbs including your bike, a small car is 2000lbs.
you lose.

Slartibartfaster: bhcompy: Gas taxes are effectively road use taxes

bikes CAN (but are not allowed) to ride on footpaths, how much footpath tax do you want
truck/trailers use VASTLY more road (wear and tear on the road, area used of the road, and total miles used) ..... Im personally grateful for the truckers, fundamentally important industry, that is currently getting jacked on the other side of this exact same equation

Cars use vastly more tha bikes (in fact without the bike lanes, the effect of the bikes on the roads are negligible, and bikes can and would often prefer not using the road). Bike riders pay federal and state, and municipal tax for general infrastructure.

bikes do NOT use the roads like any other vehicle (thats freaking dangerous, some a-holes do it, but that is our species, sometimes we suck)

tax that ? wanna have a tea party ?
(wont be the first time that has happened against a british tax right ?)

Footpaths are not for bicycles in CA(that is, road sidewalks). Roads are. They are encouraged by the law to use the roads as vehicles, but also required to stay as far to the right as possible and maintain speed. They can and do cross lanes to make left hand turns from the vehicular left hand turn lane. And I support a sliding scale like already exists for vehicle registration and gas tax. Don't need to charge very much, just enough to do their part like every other vehicle.

American Decency Association: a cyclist running a red light is much closer to a pedestrian j-walking that a motor vehicle doing the same.

Except the part about stopping on a dime and backing up. Bikes don't have reverse. You also have a blind front end, since the bike sticks out farther than your face. I can stick my head out from behind a car and see if a car is coming if I am on foot. I cannot do that on a bicycle. I can step out on the crosswalk and then see someone disregard my right of way on said crosswalk and continue to drive, so I can quickly step back because I am very agile on my feet compared to a bicycle. If I proceed to accelerate, or I am already moving on my bicycle I can either try and beat the vehicle out of the space I am going to occupy or hit the brakes and hope I stop before I reach the point of collision. To reverse, I have to be at a complete stop and lean the bike over or dismount the seat, and move backwards. This obviously takes far too long for any emergency situation. End result is that a bike is nothing like a pedestrian, and much more like a motor vehicle.

thisisarepeat: Slartibartfaster: Slartibartfaster: who write that ?

oops

wrote
if there are others, I blame the merlo

The Beatles, "Tax Man"

thanks :-)

The Headline: "British government unveils plan to tax cyclists"

The Article: 'A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."'

Typical crap journalism - take one sentence from a consultation document and pretend its about to become a law, and fill your article with "might"s and "if"s. Jesus, Subby, do you have no ability to read to between the lines, and believe everything you see in the papers?

It's not just the sensor lights that are the problem. I stop at red lights. Always. But try riding down a street that has a light every block or two and it's on a timer. Well, the timer is set for a car to get a green every time if they are doing the speed limit. So I hit the red every farking time.

mrjared: It's not just the sensor lights that are the problem. I stop at red lights. Always. But try riding down a street that has a light every block or two and it's on a timer. Well, the timer is set for a car to get a green every time if they are doing the speed limit. So I hit the red every farking time.

Take a sidestreet, like motorists that have problems with crappy light patterns/traffic on certain thoroughfares

stupid. they should be making bikes the only allowed vehicles in the cities outside of public transport and delivery instead. too bad the fat people are a majority :(

bhcompy: Footpaths are not for bicycles in CA(that is, road sidewalks). Roads are. They are encouraged by the law to use the roads as vehicles, but also required to stay as far to the right as possible and maintain speed./i>

I did say that
sorta

(spent a few years very recently living in CA, loved it, but prefer OR)

bikes are able to, but not allowed.

they are capable, but forced not to, then encouraged to be "as vehicles" (they are not, the footprint is imposed not created). Bike lanes are effective, thats a very real cost to tax payers but they are only generally created in areas where there are large amounts of tax paying bicyclists (or jerk off local councilmen, but thats another story nobody other than THEM should be blamed for)

tweekster: I always like the fark links that involve some jackass biker breaking the law. getting clipped by a car and waking up in the hospital with a ticket for being a jackass.

You are 200 lbs including your bike, a small car is 2000lbs.
you lose.

I hope for the sake of appropriately cautious cyclists your driving is not as aggressive as your attitude.

Slartibartfaster: /i>

^ merlot

the wonders a "less than" character can do
does that add to my point of bicycles