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(MSNBC)   White House waits for the weekend to quietly acknowledge that Joe Wilson was right and Obama was wrong   (firstread.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 202
    More: Obvious, Joe Wilson, White House, wilson, President Obama, public funds, the president, illegal aliens, right to life  
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6036 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2009 at 3:34 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-09-12 12:34:52 PM
You know subby, just saying something doesn't make it so, especially when the link you submit contradicts you.
 
2009-09-12 12:38:55 PM
Dinki: You know subby, just saying something doesn't make it so, especially when the link you submit contradicts you.

Not only that, he rated that headline "neutral."
 
2009-09-12 12:40:11 PM
When the Administration admits that court decisions prevent government programs from excluding illegal aliens he won't have to admit anything... he was just wrong.
 
2009-09-12 12:40:46 PM
You go to England, you hurt yourself, they fix you up for no cost.

We suck.
 
2009-09-12 12:40:54 PM
I read that as no hospital will turn away someone needing emergency medical care and will be paid for with public funds, and that illegals can't enroll in national heathcare but can still as they do now get it through other oddball flight by night insurance companies that will eventually be watched over and have regulations in place even for them.

Nice try subby.
 
2009-09-12 12:42:30 PM
Rewording (dumbing down) the language of the bill so you idiots can understand it does not mean Obama was wrong.

Illegals will not have access to Government subsidized (funded) health care, the bill specifically states this.

Illegals will have access to private sector options just as they do now. This is not government health care this is at their own expenses. This is a good thing because it lessens the burden on my next point.

The Government currently pays $250,000,000 a year for all uninsured emergency room visits illegal or otherwise to help ease the burden on health care providers because they are required by Hippocratic oath and the law to treat people in need even if they do not have health care. Joe Wilson voted for this.
 
2009-09-12 12:42:37 PM
Making a scene during a joint session of Congress is never "right".

So stuff it.
 
2009-09-12 12:42:54 PM
Dinki: You know subby, just saying something doesn't make it so, especially when the link you submit contradicts you.


It does?!?

FTA:

The question, as we all know, arises from the Wilson "You lie" outburst, and the core claim that notwithstanding specific bill language barring illegal immigrants from participating in the "exchange," as a practical matter, there is no way of verifying the citizenship of applicants -- which is the current state of play. Republicans say that then means illegal immigrants would end up being enrolled in plans -- bill language or no bill language.

Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange. [Emphasis added.]


Wilson shouldn't have used the a word as strong as "lie" (nor should he have expostulated as he did during the speech, that was unseemly), but the substance of his objection was obviously correct all along. And the White House is now agreeing to address it. So the link hardly contradicts the headline.

/not subby
 
2009-09-12 12:45:15 PM
TheNyquilKid: The Government currently pays $250,000,000 a year for all uninsured emergency room visits illegal or otherwise to help ease the burden on health care providers because they are required by Hippocratic oath and the law to treat people in need even if they do not have health care. Joe Wilson voted for this.

250 million s year? That's IT?

We blow our collective noses with more than that kind of cash.
 
2009-09-12 12:47:04 PM
TheNyquilKid: The Government currently pays $250,000,000 a year for all uninsured emergency room visits illegal or otherwise to help ease the burden on health care providers because they are required by Hippocratic oath and the law to treat people in need even if they do not have health care.

In other other words we will probably continue to pay more in taxes to care for illegals in the more expensive ER or make them wait for their once manageable illness to get worse because we don't want to pay one cent to help them get preventive care? Brilliant. We iz so smart.
 
2009-09-12 12:57:04 PM
He was politician-right (Obama) there's nothing in there about giving them healthcare...there's just nothing in there really trying hard to not give them healthcare. The problem I see is this is supposed to be "reform," yet we seem to be carrying over money wasters solely for the reason that they were in there before.
 
2009-09-12 12:57:16 PM
TheNyquilKid: Illegals will not have access to Government subsidized (funded) health care, the bill specifically states this.

What's going to happen to employers who hire illegals with fake papers--are they going to be subject to the fine excise tax of $100/man/day if they don't provide insurance or insure them through the public option or the HIE? Or will we continue to not be all too careful about checking the citizenship of those people and hand them an insurance card?
 
2009-09-12 01:01:37 PM
John McCain has an illegitimate child with a North Vietnamese woman he raped during the war.

The child's name is Cuc Themat and he lives off an unpublicized government-funded program in southern Arizona. We the taxpayers have been paying for this child's very cush life that has included sports cars, a 6-bedroom house, and yearly trips to Europe and Vietnam.

You want to talk about care for illegals? Yeah, why don't you call McCain?
 
2009-09-12 01:02:36 PM
Lando Lincoln: TheNyquilKid: The Government currently pays $250,000,000 a year for all uninsured emergency room visits illegal or otherwise to help ease the burden on health care providers because they are required by Hippocratic oath and the law to treat people in need even if they do not have health care. Joe Wilson voted for this.

250 million s year? That's IT?

We blow our collective noses with more than that kind of cash.


"A 2006 RAND study found that about $1.1 billion in federal, state and local government funds are spent annually on health care for undocumented immigrants aged 18 to 64. That amounts to an average $11 in taxes for each U.S. household. In contrast a total of $88 billion in government funds were spent on health care for all non-elderly adults in 2000."

This is all really just making a big deal over a small catch-22 situation in the grand scheme of things. But those who make it a big deal know people will get all riled up because it's about illegal immigrants.
 
2009-09-12 01:08:32 PM
The article I read said that subby's mom blows illegal aliens for 5 pesos a pop.
 
2009-09-12 01:15:00 PM
MuadDib: but the substance of his objection was obviously correct all along.

Um no. The idiot Wilson stated that Obama lied when he said that illegals would not be covered. According to the article, Obama was absolutely correct.

Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.
 
2009-09-12 01:29:36 PM
I know this is probably useless to state here but both sides are arguing with each other with each claiming that their side is the ones denying care to a certain group of people. There's something wrong with that picture.
 
2009-09-12 01:33:45 PM
Dinki:

Um no. The idiot Wilson stated that Obama lied when he said that illegals would not be covered. According to the article, Obama was absolutely correct.

Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.



You don't read none too good. That's part of the fix for the loophole they've agreed to make. As I quoted from TFA above, "the current state of play" is that "there is no way of verifying the citizenship of applicants." So the point stands.
 
2009-09-12 01:34:51 PM
The mods have lost their shiat greenlighting this sort of garbage.
 
2009-09-12 01:39:39 PM
Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.

Well, coming from a MSM source, that certainly clinches it.
 
2009-09-12 01:45:30 PM
TheNyquilKid: The mods have lost their shiat greenlighting this sort of garbage.

Oh I dunno. I think this is a fascinating subject.
 
2009-09-12 01:45:57 PM
Read it and weep. No matter what President Obama says, this is the situation:
Most Of California's Prop. 187 Ruled Unconstitutional


LOS ANGELES (AllPolitics, March 19) -- A U.S. District Court judge has declared most of California's Proposition 187 unconstitutional.

Approved by voters in 1994, the proposition would have denied health care, education and welfare benefits to illegal immigrants. Almost immediately, Judge Mariana Pfaelzer granted its opponents' request for a restraining order, which prevented it from taking effect.

In her final ruling, Pfaelzer rejected California's attempt to regulate immigration, which she said is the federal government's responsibility.

Judge Pfaelzer's ruling strikes down portions of the initiative that would have required law enforcement, teachers, social service and health care workers to verify a person's immigration status. Under Proposition 187, they would have had to report illegals to authorities and to deny them social service, health care and education benefits.

The American Civil Liberties Union's Southern California chapter was one of the five groups which sued to stop Proposition 187. In a statement, ACLU spokesman Mark Rosenbaum said Pfaelzer correctly denied California's attempt to regulate immigration.

"[It is] not a matter for individual states to attempt to formulate their own rules and procedures," Rosenbaum said. "School teachers and doctors are not substitutes for INS agents."

But California Gov. Pete Wilson, who supports Proposition 187, vowed to appeal, "so that the will of the people can be upheld."
 
2009-09-12 01:49:50 PM
Weaver95: TheNyquilKid: The mods have lost their shiat greenlighting this sort of garbage.

Oh I dunno. I think this is a fascinating subject.


I'm fine with the story and the subject. The headline is very misleading though and sadly even though it's fark many people read the headline and assume that's what the story says.
 
2009-09-12 01:51:39 PM
bearsfolks: Read it and weep. No matter what President Obama says, this is the situation:
Most Of California's Prop. 187 Ruled Unconstitutional


You missed this part of the judge's ruling:

Pfaelzer rejected California's attempt to regulate immigration, which she said is the federal government's responsibility.

Remind me what position Obama is in, again?
 
2009-09-12 01:53:49 PM
TheNyquilKid: Weaver95: TheNyquilKid: The mods have lost their shiat greenlighting this sort of garbage.

Oh I dunno. I think this is a fascinating subject.

I'm fine with the story and the subject. The headline is very misleading though and sadly even though it's fark many people read the headline and assume that's what the story says.


yeah, but that's par for the course. And there is some evidence to suggest that, by law, we're going to be forced to cover health care for illegal immigrants. I'm really not sure how that's all going to end up though.
 
2009-09-12 01:55:27 PM
* Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.
* Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.
* Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.
* There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.

i4.photobucket.com
 
2009-09-12 01:56:57 PM
Jeez subby you lie
 
2009-09-12 01:57:22 PM
Dear subby and admin:

Stop wasting our farking time.

Sincerely,

The reality-based community
 
2009-09-12 01:57:53 PM
Weaver95: TheNyquilKid: Weaver95: TheNyquilKid: The mods have lost their shiat greenlighting this sort of garbage.

Oh I dunno. I think this is a fascinating subject.

I'm fine with the story and the subject. The headline is very misleading though and sadly even though it's fark many people read the headline and assume that's what the story says.

yeah, but that's par for the course. And there is some evidence to suggest that, by law, we're going to be forced to cover health care for illegal immigrants. I'm really not sure how that's all going to end up though.


True, but according to the article the program that provides tax dollars to help reimburse hospitals for treating illegals was sponsored by a Republican. The Obama health care bill really doesn't change how illegals are dealt with. It has nothing to do with immigration.

/we should force the governments of Central and South America to foot the bill
 
2009-09-12 02:02:38 PM
Fark It: * Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.
* Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.
* Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.
* There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.



You don't read no gooder than Dinki.

For the third time: THAT IS THE PROPOSED FIX FOR THE LOOPHOLE. TFA plainly states that it's a new proposal and that there is currently no mechanism in place in the proposals under discussion to verify immigration status.


img214.imageshack.us
 
2009-09-12 02:11:05 PM
Obama, the video... (new window)


/I feel GOOD
 
2009-09-12 02:12:09 PM
MuadDib: Fark It: * Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.
* Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.
* Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.
* There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.


You don't read no gooder than Dinki.

For the third time: THAT IS THE PROPOSED FIX FOR THE LOOPHOLE. TFA plainly states that it's a new proposal and that there is currently no mechanism in place in the proposals under discussion to verify immigration status.

The question, as we all know, arises from the Wilson "You lie" outburst, and the core claim that notwithstanding specific bill language barring illegal immigrants from participating in the "exchange," as a practical matter, there is no way of verifying the citizenship of applicants -- which is the current state of play. Republicans say that then means illegal immigrants would end up being enrolled in plans -- bill language or no bill language.


Obama never set out to give health care to illegals
The proposed reforms NEVER applied to illegal aliens>
 
2009-09-12 02:14:28 PM
You know, it makes me laugh how much Republicans have to twist reality in order to make it match their version of how the world works.

the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.

Joe Wilson is the liar, and his outburst was childish in the extreme, not to mention a massive breach of decorum.
 
2009-09-12 02:18:43 PM
Fark It: Weaver95: TheNyquilKid: Weaver95: TheNyquilKid: The mods have lost their shiat greenlighting this sort of garbage.

Oh I dunno. I think this is a fascinating subject.

I'm fine with the story and the subject. The headline is very misleading though and sadly even though it's fark many people read the headline and assume that's what the story says.

yeah, but that's par for the course. And there is some evidence to suggest that, by law, we're going to be forced to cover health care for illegal immigrants. I'm really not sure how that's all going to end up though.

True, but according to the article the program that provides tax dollars to help reimburse hospitals for treating illegals was sponsored by a Republican. The Obama health care bill really doesn't change how illegals are dealt with. It has nothing to do with immigration.

/we should force the governments of Central and South America to foot the bill


P.S. Joe Wilson voted for that bill.
 
2009-09-12 02:24:29 PM
MuadDib: For the third time: THAT IS THE PROPOSED FIX FOR THE LOOPHOLE. TFA plainly states that it's a new proposal and that there is currently no mechanism in place in the proposals under discussion to verify immigration status.

The bullet points are for the Republican senators and lobbyists who are too stupid to understand the wording of the bill, which never covered illegal immigrants, beyond existing emergency care and hospital reimbursement laws.

Obama: This bill is for the American people.
Lunatics: You're trying to give coverage to illegals. That's what this bill does!
Obama: Illegals already get...
Lunatics: You lie!
Obama: Fine, we'll just make it easier for you to read what you haven't read so that you'll ignore it.
 
2009-09-12 02:26:00 PM
Lando Lincoln: 250 million s year? That's IT?

We blow our collective noses with more than that kind of cash.


The city of Portland, OR just spent over twice that on a 6.5 mile light rail extension and transit mall makeover. Just in case anyone wants to complain about how much money $250 mil really is.
 
2009-09-12 02:27:24 PM
"Explaining" something to someone who already desperately wants to understand it his own way is a huge waste of time. You are guaranteed to accomplish nothing.
 
2009-09-12 02:30:50 PM
This whole Wilson thang has been really instructive.
On the one hand, the bill very clearly says 'undocumented aliens will not be covered,' Obama accurately and clearly says 'undocumented aliens will not be covered.'
Wilson screams "you lie!"
Um, no he didn't lie. It's clear. That's what the bill says.
Then Wilson, the GOP, it's stalwart defenders in the media (and here) as well as the legion of trolls and Fark Independents™ then go into full swing attack.
'Well if you look at from this angle and stand on your toes while turning you head to the right and jumping up and down and patting your head while rubbing your tummy you can see that Obama LIED!!!"

Um, no, you just went through some convoluted semantic distortions to find something tangentially related to the original point.
 
2009-09-12 02:33:23 PM
propasaurus: On the one hand, the bill very clearly says 'undocumented aliens will not be covered,' Obama accurately and clearly says 'undocumented aliens will not be covered.'

Wilson screams "you lie!"



What 'bill'?

There's a healthcare bill that democrats are about to pass?
 
2009-09-12 02:35:05 PM
Obama was wrong when he made the statement and now they are fixing it, problem solved. Now he can start chasing all that Waste, Fraud & Abuse money.
 
2009-09-12 02:37:55 PM
Gato Negro: propasaurus: On the one hand, the bill very clearly says 'undocumented aliens will not be covered,' Obama accurately and clearly says 'undocumented aliens will not be covered.'

Wilson screams "you lie!"


What 'bill'?

There's a healthcare bill that democrats are about to pass?


How can he be lying if there isn't a bill, then?
 
2009-09-12 03:15:21 PM
jim32rr: Obama was wrong when he made the statement and now they are fixing it, problem solved. Now he can start chasing all that Waste, Fraud & Abuse money.

YOU LIE!
 
2009-09-12 03:15:59 PM
Don't speak ill of Glenn Beck, yet greenlight this crapola.
 
2009-09-12 03:24:46 PM
robsul82: Don't speak ill of Glenn Beck, yet greenlight this crapola.

Well sure, Glenn Beck is a true patriot.

/a lying patriot
/a raping,murdering, lying patriot
 
2009-09-12 03:37:18 PM
img199.imageshack.us
 
2009-09-12 03:40:14 PM
Headlines like this really make me hate Fark. It's why I gave up my TF subscription. I don't mind the partisan bickering, but the blatant lies in headlines get old. Yeah, we get it. Controversy brings page views. But for god's sake stop insulting the collective intelligence of this site with that crap.
 
2009-09-12 03:40:43 PM
Marcus Aurelius [TotalFark] Quote 2009-09-12 12:42:37 PM
Making a scene during a joint session of Congress is never "right".

So stuff it.



I couldn't agree more


Where have you been for the last 5 years?
 
2009-09-12 03:41:29 PM
HAHA!

Validated yet AGAIN!

/You gullible suckers!
 
2009-09-12 03:42:41 PM
TheNyquilKid: Rewording (dumbing down) the language of the bill so you idiots can understand it does not mean Obama was wrong.



HAHA!

WHARGARBLDELUXE!
 
2009-09-12 03:42:55 PM
RockIsDead: HAHA!

Validated yet AGAIN!

/You gullible suckers!


We validated the fact that you hear what you want to hear, yes.
 
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