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(Computerworld)   AT&T blames iPhone users for network problems, tells investors they won't meet traffic demands for "at least a few years"   (computerworld.com ) divider line
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16490 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2009 at 10:36 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



323 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2009-09-09 09:34:51 AM  
"There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

I don't seem to have this "network problem" of which you speak over here on Verizon.
 
2009-09-09 09:36:18 AM  
And, as a BusinessWeek article makes clear, there's no way AT&T will be able to meet the traffic demands of iPhone users any time in the next few years. (The article also confirms that AT&T has deliberately delayed MMS and tethering because it simply can't handle the traffic.)

Nice. This amuses me whenever iFanboys go on a frothing tirade about something Verizon might have done with Bluetooth five years ago.
 
2009-09-09 09:42:54 AM  

floor9: And, as a BusinessWeek article makes clear, there's no way AT&T will be able to meet the traffic demands of iPhone users any time in the next few years. (The article also confirms that AT&T has deliberately delayed MMS and tethering because it simply can't handle the traffic.)

Nice. This amuses me whenever iFanboys go on a frothing tirade about something Verizon might have done with Bluetooth five years ago.


I thought I smelled something in here...
 
2009-09-09 09:44:30 AM  

floor9: "There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

I don't seem to have this "network problem" of which you speak over here on Verizon.


People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!
 
2009-09-09 09:44:45 AM  
blame the customer. great plan.

i love my iphone, but i farking hate AT&T. as soon as another carrier becomes available, i and legions of iphone users will jump ship.
 
2009-09-09 09:46:36 AM  
I'm thinking I might ditch my iPhone for that Nokia N900 (on T-mobile) when it comes out...
 
2009-09-09 09:47:28 AM  

Barakku: floor9: "There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

I don't seem to have this "network problem" of which you speak over here on Verizon.

People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!


actually, the phone itself isn't expensive. $99 if you sign up for a new contract. but, yeah, the $100/month kinda sux.
 
2009-09-09 09:48:17 AM  

Barakku: People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!


Unbelievable. Why don't customers take some personal responsibility? Just because they're on a $90 plan doesn't mean they can go sending picture mail whenever they feel like!
 
2009-09-09 09:49:59 AM  

floor9: Barakku: People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!

Unbelievable. Why don't customers take some personal responsibility? Just because they're on a $90 plan doesn't mean they can go sending picture mail whenever they feel like!


Nice to see that the 'new' AT&T is still using the 'old' AT&T's monopolistic
corporate handbook.
 
2009-09-09 09:51:20 AM  
The simple solution would be to raise the price of the data plans to discourage new customers and reduce the bandwidth usage.

Unfortunately for AT&T, they're in a "contract" with the majority of them so they can't just go change that at will. I love it.
 
2009-09-09 09:52:30 AM  
Maybe your dumbass should have thought about the ability of your network to handle the traffic when signing the exclussivity agreement with Apple? But yeah, everyone loves your half-ass customer service and shiatty network speed, so you really have nothing to worry about when you agreement expires. Nothing at all.
 
2009-09-09 09:57:55 AM  
Friends iPhone > my Storm
Friends iPhone + AT < my Storm + Verizon

My Storm has zero issues with browsing, messaging, or downloading anything. My friend cannot get a decent signal anywhere around here. He can't browse the internet in any restaurant we've been to, it just won't load pages despite showing decent signal.

I fail to see how a shiatty network is anything but AT&Ts problem.
 
2009-09-09 10:00:58 AM  

FlashHarry: Barakku: floor9: "There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

I don't seem to have this "network problem" of which you speak over here on Verizon.

People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!

actually, the phone itself isn't expensive. $99 if you sign up for a new contract. but, yeah, the $100/month kinda sux.


Well, very should probably be on the plan, but it's a 500 dollar phone so it can access those high-bandwidth features...
 
2009-09-09 10:11:12 AM  

FlashHarry: actually, the phone itself isn't expensive. $99 if you sign up for a new contract. but, yeah, the $100/month kinda sux.


It's finally approaching reasonable, aside from that ridiculous monthly fee. The current iPhone is what the iPhone of 2007 should have been. That is, the current iPhone has finally caught up with mid-2000s technology levels. Sweet.

But hey, AT&T won't be lowering the rates any time soon. Customers keep complaining about the service, but AT&T will continue to charge it as long as customers keep bending over & begging for more.
 
2009-09-09 10:12:39 AM  
Maybe AT&T should lift some of the burden by allowing us to skip out or our contracts and take our iPhones somewhere else.
 
2009-09-09 10:20:55 AM  

serial_crusher: Maybe AT&T should lift some of the burden by allowing us to skip out or our contracts and take our iPhones somewhere else.


America was built on capitalism and competition, son. Survival of the fittest. Let the market decide.

So why do you hate America?
 
2009-09-09 10:21:53 AM  

FlashHarry: blame the customer. great plan.

i love my iphone, but i farking hate AT&T. as soon as another carrier becomes available, i and legions of iphone users will jump ship.


THIS! ^^^^

I'm far from an Apple Fanboy...in fact, other than my iPhone, I hate most Apple products. I love my iPhone though.
 
2009-09-09 10:35:44 AM  
As much as it sucks, I'm still getting way more for my money with AT&T than I was with Verizon.
 
2009-09-09 10:39:35 AM  

floor9: (The article also confirms that AT&T has deliberately delayed MMS and tethering because it simply can't handle the traffic.)


I call shenanigans. AT&T delaying both of those because they can't decide on how much ass-raping to charge for tethering or MMS.

 
2009-09-09 10:39:42 AM  
I have so many reasons to hate AT&T.
Crappy service is one.
Clients who bought AT&T stock in 1968 and have no cost basis records is another.

You wouldn't understand.
 
2009-09-09 10:40:54 AM  
I received my iPhone as a gift. I really appreciate the gift, but the iPhone sucks at being a phone. It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.

The worst part is that whenever I mention it some fanboy will tell me to "just email it", as if simple compatibility with every other phone is too much to ask for.

As soon as this thing goes kaput for good (another white screen of death yesterday), I'll be moving on from apple phones.
 
2009-09-09 10:42:08 AM  

vegasj: I call shenanigans. AT&T delaying both of those because they can't decide on how much ass-raping to charge for tethering or MMS.


MMS is coming out in 2 weeks. I don't believe I'm paying more for it.
 
2009-09-09 10:42:52 AM  
Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect. Suck it jesus phone users.
 
2009-09-09 10:42:56 AM  

Rapmaster2000: The worst part is that whenever I mention it some fanboy will tell me to "just email it", as if simple compatibility with every other phone is too much to ask for.


This.

The "just email it" response always reminds me of those furious, rabid Linux fanboys of the late 90s. Whenever someone would post a question like "What's the best way to play DVDs in Linux?", an avalanche of angry "PFFT, YOU'RE AN IDIOT, WHY DON'T YOU JUST RIP IT TO AVI AND THEN ENCODE IT USING DIVX YOU STUPID FREAKING NOOB MORON IDIOT LOSER!" responses.

Telling people to "just email it" is ridiculous and misses the point.
 
2009-09-09 10:43:24 AM  
"There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

Where is this quote from? I don't see it in the article, and no google result for that phrase.
 
2009-09-09 10:43:55 AM  
suck it, hipsters

www.geofftech.co.uk
 
2009-09-09 10:44:02 AM  

WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect.


Sitting here with my enV Touch showing full service in my cube, while the on-call AT&T phone has to reside on the windowsill because it gets no service in my building.

Sweet.
 
2009-09-09 10:44:19 AM  

serial_crusher: Maybe AT&T should lift some of the burden by allowing us to skip out or our contracts and take our iPhones somewhere else.


You do know the only place you could "take" your iPhone would be T-mobile, right?
 
2009-09-09 10:45:00 AM  
Class Action Suits in 1 2 3
 
2009-09-09 10:45:17 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I received my iPhone as a gift. I really appreciate the gift, but the iPhone sucks at being a phone. It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.

The worst part is that whenever I mention it some fanboy will tell me to "just email it", as if simple compatibility with every other phone is too much to ask for.

As soon as this thing goes kaput for good (another white screen of death yesterday), I'll be moving on from apple phones.


You realize that the phone can do that, and it's just AT&T blocking it... which was, like, the entire point of this thread, right?
 
2009-09-09 10:45:33 AM  
"There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

Strange. I didn't see that quote in any of the ads.

/iPhone fanboy
//former h8er
///it really is an awesome piece of hardware
////doesn't see how Blackberry users are any less obnoxious
 
2009-09-09 10:46:05 AM  

El Chode: MMS is coming out in 2 weeks. I don't believe I'm paying more for it.


When I see it I'll believe it.

AT&T blamed no MMS on Apple not having it on the phone, Apple blamed AT&T's network.

Jailbroken phones have had it and working.

My original comment still stands for the tethering. AT&T charges now for users to tether other phones, a jailbroken phone can tether... so why the delay?

 
2009-09-09 10:46:13 AM  
Where are they spending all the money they have coming in with the surge of iPhone customers? Should they be allowed to sell a product that is crippled? Isn't this like selling a car then not giving the buyer access to a freeway (if Ford owned the on-ramps)?

That AT&T sucks is just a given at this point. All of the cell carriers suck in the US. Some laws need to changed to allow some competition.
 
2009-09-09 10:46:53 AM  
I listen to streaming internet radio during my entire 100 commute throughout New Jersey. The only places I tend to lose service is when I've hiked a couple of miles into a state park.

The only carrier that sucks here is T-Mobile.
 
2009-09-09 10:47:12 AM  

MemeSlave: suck it, hipsters


wow dude, really? thats pretty hilarious. I use apple products and am far from a hipster, in fact I run my entire business on them. Its not my fault final cut pro is only $1,300
 
2009-09-09 10:47:57 AM  

Mugato: ////doesn't see how Blackberry users are any less have been just as obnoxious for a lot longer


FTFY
 
2009-09-09 10:48:10 AM  
how can AT&T legally claim "more bars in more places" when in fact it has some of the worst reception of any us carrier?
 
2009-09-09 10:48:33 AM  
I just did a speed test on my iPhone on ATT 3G. Got 0.84megabits down and 0.09 up. Is that a bad score? I have no clue.
 
2009-09-09 10:48:43 AM  

WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect. Suck it jesus phone users.


I was on a booze-cruise in the middle of the Baltic Sea, and I had signal. Which network was it? Certainly was not Verizon...
 
2009-09-09 10:48:46 AM  
In fact, AT&T is the No. 1 political contributor in the nation, spending an incredible $43.5 million since 1989 to buy influence in government. AT&T complains that it doesn't have the money to service its iPhone monopoly, while at the same time spending more than every other company on currying favor in Washington. That doesn't make sense.

Doesn't make sense? Obviously this guy doesn't understand economics. If you invested 43 million in infrastructure to improve your product you might increase customer happiness, create jobs, and sales. That's just going to get them back where they were in the first place with a bucket of money and too many customers to service. Of course they could invest it again, but then it's an endless cycle.

No much better to just burn the money.
 
2009-09-09 10:49:36 AM  
That article isnt entirely accurate, apple keeps all their work in house and refuses to release anything to AT&T so they cant find work arounds, apple wants AT&T to give them all their information so they can find the fixes but refuse to give information back to allow their engineers the chance to fix any issues.

Dont forget AT&T wireless is really just cingular wireless which was one of the most competent wireless providers out there.

Also, neither verizon or T-Mobile are in a position to handle the data traffic across their networks either, they could handle the voice with degraded quality but the data service would be worse.

Im just waiting for them to release the Pre to verizon first so it can over take the iphone, mainly because I hate apple for wanting to control every aspect of their devices. I find it ironic that the same people who say bill gates just wants a monopoly to control all the flow will flock to apple who locks all their devices down to where you have to use their products or youre SOL.
 
2009-09-09 10:49:47 AM  

vegasj: El Chode: MMS is coming out in 2 weeks. I don't believe I'm paying more for it.

When I see it I'll believe it.

AT&T blamed no MMS on Apple not having it on the phone, Apple blamed AT&T's network.

Jailbroken phones have had it and working.

My original comment still stands for the tethering. AT&T charges now for users to tether other phones, a jailbroken phone can tether... so why the delay?


Because AT&T seems to enjoy not investing in their infrastructure it would seem.

Either way, here's the story from Chicago Tribune (new window)
 
2009-09-09 10:50:11 AM  
Let's see now... Apple had spaces (more like "ghettoes") in CompUSA stores set aside for their products for a while before they opened their own retail stores to the guffaws of business analysts who thought they couldn't possibly succeed. Apple's retail stores took off, and CompUSAs closed across the country.

Apple tried to design a cell phone with Motorola. It was little more than a pretty dog turd. So Apple designed their own cell phone and now it's taken off to the point where AT&T is struggling to provide the bandwidth.

If the pattern holds, and justice isn't dead, in about two years Apple will reveal that they have their own 4G network, starting in select cities and rolling out across the country.
 
2009-09-09 10:50:21 AM  

hachijuhachi: I have so many reasons to hate AT&T.
Crappy service is one.
Clients who bought AT&T stock in 1968 and have no cost basis records is another.

You wouldn't understand.


January 1, 1984 was a great day to be a stockholder of AT&T.

/just sayin'
 
2009-09-09 10:50:30 AM  

Rapmaster2000: It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.



I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks. It comes from the inability to download an attachment in an email, something I could do with my Razr. I asked one of the geniuses at Best Buy and he shrugged his shoulders and suggested that there might be some software for that. So no, the iPhone isn't perfect by any means but I still like it.

/"sonar" ringtone isn't that bad I suppose
//still wants the CTU ringtone back
 
2009-09-09 10:50:41 AM  
Well my ex wife always said I was part of the problem...

/love my iPhone
//biblically
 
2009-09-09 10:51:13 AM  
I worked tech support for AT&T so yadda yadda yadda...

Anyway, there's no way in hell I'd use an iPhone...Apple has exclusive rights in dealing with the phone itself, and AT&T has exclusive rights in dealing with the network itself. Your iPhone doesn't work? Expect to be bounced back between two companies pointing fingers.
 
2009-09-09 10:51:20 AM  
I find you lack of faith disturbing
http://tinyurl.com/nj7fat
(copy and paste)
 
2009-09-09 10:51:33 AM  

floor9: WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect.

Sitting here with my enV Touch showing full service in my cube, while the on-call AT&T phone has to reside on the windowsill because it gets no service in my building.

Sweet.


Our on call AT&T phone is two floors up, plugged in to the wall with the number forwarded to a different phone. Whichever engineer is on call has to go up and change the forward number over to his cell. In the end we just decided it was easier than playing "find service" game.

At home, my wife's iPhone randomly goes from full signal in our bedroom, to analog to no service and back again. I've actually found it is easier to email her and tell her go find service and call me, than to try calling her cellphone. Good job AT&T.

/trying to get the wife addicted to my Omnia so I lure her off that shiat ass network
 
2009-09-09 10:52:03 AM  

BilldaCat10: "There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

Where is this quote from? I don't see it in the article, and no google result for that phrase.


I couldn't find it in the article either (or the linked articles)
 
2009-09-09 10:52:11 AM  
Well you iPhone users: stop all the sexting... everything would be just fine.
 
2009-09-09 10:52:17 AM  
Remember when phones made phone calls?

www.textually.org

Everything old is new again.

/post irrelevant, nostalgic.
 
2009-09-09 10:53:09 AM  
As for Jailbreaking, I've been reading a few law journal articles that indicate there are some anti-trust concerns building about Apple's somewhat draconinan measures regarding their technology once it is in the consumer's hands, as well as the proprietary nature of carriers being exclusive with certain phones.

The reason jailbreaking does it is because it's "illegal" technically in AT&T and Apple's eyes much in the same was as a Grateful Dead bootleg is to a record label. Sure you can get your hands on it and get a lot of things you can't get from any official release, but it just robs the big guy of the opportunity to make you pay for it and increase profits down the line.

On the other side of that, when you're not paying for things, they have less money to invest in infrastructure, so it's a double-edged sword.
 
2009-09-09 10:53:30 AM  

floor9: I don't seem to have this "network problem" of which you speak over here on Verizon.


That's because you don't have iPhones, either. RTFA.
 
2009-09-09 10:53:37 AM  

FeeltheIllinoise: Its not my fault final cut pro is only $1,300


Holy shiat, it's that much? I use it for free at school and had no idea. Well, it's free until the student loans start kicking in.

And I don't get the hatred towards people who prefer Apple products.
 
2009-09-09 10:54:02 AM  
AT&T is not expanding or enhancing the network more quickly because the demand is not there. Not enough iPhone users are willing to pay $200/month and the regular customers without a smart phone won't be willing to pay more at all as they'd have no benefit. There are already several posts complaining about $100/month.
 
2009-09-09 10:54:03 AM  
img1.fark.net tag broken?
 
2009-09-09 10:55:24 AM  
BilldaCat10 Quote 2009-09-09 10:43:24 AM
"There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

Where is this quote from? I don't see it in the article, and no google result for that phrase.


i google'd it immediately too, that quote seemed too perfect

upload.wikimedia.org is Impressed
 
2009-09-09 10:55:44 AM  

steamingpile: That article isnt entirely accurate, apple keeps all their work in house and refuses to release anything to AT&T so they cant find work arounds, apple wants AT&T to give them all their information so they can find the fixes but refuse to give information back to allow their engineers the chance to fix any issues.


And that's not entirely accurate, either. The iPhone OS 3.1 update (due out in less than two weeks, as mentioned by El Chode) was developed by AT&T. The whole thing about the AT&T network most likely not being to handle the onslaught of MMS and tethered traffic? That's probably accurate.
 
2009-09-09 10:57:00 AM  

stuhayes2010: I just did a speed test on my iPhone on ATT 3G. Got 0.84megabits down and 0.09 up. Is that a bad score? I have no clue.


No, that sucks. Mail it to me and I'll fix it for you.
 
2009-09-09 10:57:45 AM  
funny.
I thought Apple might screw itself by playing it's usual "exclusiveness" game when picking a single carrier.

/mac "fanboy"
//verizon blackberry owner.
///(it was free, and the plan's cheaper)

finnished: WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect. Suck it jesus phone users.

I was on a booze-cruise in the middle of the Baltic Sea, and I had signal. Which network was it? Certainly was not Verizon...


Gosh... and just when you need it MOST!
 
2009-09-09 10:58:27 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I received my iPhone as a gift. I really appreciate the gift, but the iPhone sucks at being a phone. It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.

The worst part is that whenever I mention it some fanboy will tell me to "just email it", as if simple compatibility with every other phone is too much to ask for.

As soon as this thing goes kaput for good (another white screen of death yesterday), I'll be moving on from apple phones.


Yeah thats the stupid part, every other phone can receive pictures to their phone but for iphones you have to send you the pic, then go to their website to look at the pic, its farking annoying.
 
2009-09-09 10:58:27 AM  
I've rarely had a problem with my iPhone. I don't like that I can't MMS, but, to the best of my knowledge, I've never experienced text or voicemail lag, web pages load quickly for the most part and calls don't drop.
 
2009-09-09 10:58:35 AM  
No bandwidth problems here!
www.thumbjockey.com
 
2009-09-09 10:58:48 AM  
The reason Verizon's network doesn't have these problems is because they don't have a device like the iPhone. I will continue to assert that had Apple and Verizon gotten together to do the iPhone they'd be the one having network difficulties.

I hope Apple announces a CDMA iPhone for Sprint/Verizon next year. If nothing else, AT&T will see a bunch of customers leave and the AT&T network performance will get better. Its a lot easier for Apple to sell 15M phones per year if they can distribute that bandwidth demand across three separate cell phone networks (T-Mobile not included because of their funny 3G frequencies), instead of having to rely on AT&T to carry all the traffic for all those phones.
 
2009-09-09 10:59:04 AM  
I'm currently deciding between verizon and at&t for a new cell contract, so this thread is quite relevant to my interests.
Most likely not going the iphone/blackberry route though...

/carry on
 
2009-09-09 10:59:06 AM  

finnished: WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect. Suck it jesus phone users.

I was on a booze-cruise in the middle of the Baltic Sea, and I had signal. Which network was it? Certainly was not Verizon...


That's all well in good if your on a socialist sea in Europe, but here in America we prefer if our phone works in the middle of a farm field.
 
2009-09-09 10:59:11 AM  

Mugato: I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks.


FYI: if you have iLife with the latest garageband, you can make ringtones for free.
 
2009-09-09 10:59:18 AM  
From the start, the ATT rep lied to me: "Your state discount will be applied to all lines on the account." ATT then screwed up my billing (moreso than usual since their billing was designed by Escher) by not applying the discount across the board, and further by applying it (20%) in some manner that only affected the voice portion of only my line by 10% each month. For three months this occurred and we got the discount fixed by calling ATT.

On the fourth month, we go to the store to try to fix it permanently. The staff is rude and they see that their weird billing system applied an approximately 5% discount to a secondary line, and so I should be thankful that I got that discount. Call corporate, jump through the hoops to get a district manager, she takes care of the 300$ bill.

Next month, the bill is 580$ or so. WTF? Apparently when the local store was messing with my account, they removed the data plan from one of the iPhones (I didn't even realize this was possible with their system, go figure) and so it accrued a nice data bill.

And finally, to top things off, I visited NYC earlier this year and thought "Hey, great, I get 3G" since my hometown still doesn't have 3G, and come to find out due to user density, 3G in NYC is worse than Edge back home.

ATT has been one failure after another. No matter if the iPhone is on a different carrier or not, next year I'm jumping ship. I love the phone, but the carrier is a pile of shiat, and since the phone relies on that carrier to do 90% of anything, it's just not worth it.

/Ahhh... that feels better
//Since I can't throw my iPhone at the wall
///The urge is pretty strong until I realize it's the network, like always.
 
2009-09-09 11:01:04 AM  

kliq: I worked tech support for AT&T so yadda yadda yadda...



I worked tech support for AOL. I win.

I never actually had a problem with connectivity, except when I want to DL an app that's larger than 10 megs, which is most of them. It tells me to find a Wi-Fi network, which I don't know how to do.
 
2009-09-09 11:01:09 AM  

Mugato: FeeltheIllinoise: Its not my fault final cut pro is only $1,300

Holy shiat, it's that much? I use it for free at school and had no idea. Well, it's free until the student loans start kicking in.


for what it does, it's dirt cheap. compare it to what a comparable AVID system cost just a few years ago (five or six figures, depending), and you'll see how revolutionary its pricing is.
 
2009-09-09 11:01:13 AM  
I have held off on an iPhone purchase because 1)I want my AT&T Contract to run out and 2) I'm hoping that the exclusivity will end. I can imagine the though going on at Apple:

"WE SHOULD HAVE JUST RELEASED THE DAMN PHONE BY ITSELF!!!!"

Yes, yes you should have. You'd be filthy freakin' rich! (Not that you already aren't, but imagine where you would be!)
 
2009-09-09 11:01:21 AM  
i2.photobucket.com

Fast, retarded on-screen keyboard optional, runs on a mobile linux os, has every app the other phones do.

I hear people complain about T-Mobile all the time, bu I always have service
 
2009-09-09 11:01:22 AM  
I can't get porn to load on my iphone even though I have a full 3G signal when I'm sitting on the bowl at my girlfriends house, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2009-09-09 11:02:12 AM  

Teddy Hopper: I'm currently deciding between verizon and at&t for a new cell contract, so this thread is quite relevant to my interests.
Most likely not going the iphone/blackberry route though...

/carry on


Verizon 10 times over. I had Verizon while in college and loved it. I could be in an elevator inside a concrete building (library) and still have service. I switched to AT&T after I graduated since their plan was cheaper and was the worst 2 years of my life. Last September the wife and I made the move back to Verizon, and have loved every moment of it.
 
2009-09-09 11:02:46 AM  
Iphone sucks donkey balls on AT&T.

/Glad I don't have to pay for this shiat on my own.
 
2009-09-09 11:02:57 AM  

jasonmicron: The simple solution would be to raise the price of the data plans to discourage new customers and reduce the bandwidth usage.


The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.
 
2009-09-09 11:03:09 AM  

Mugato: It tells me to find a Wi-Fi network, which I don't know how to do.


Starbucks, Barnes & Noble...your house?
 
2009-09-09 11:03:34 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

well, i can see from here what the problem is!
 
2009-09-09 11:05:03 AM  
I can't wait to switch carrier when my contract with AT&T is over. Iphone isn't worth AT&T, will get iPod Touch instead.
 
2009-09-09 11:05:18 AM  

FlashHarry: Mugato: I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks.

FYI: if you have iLife with the latest garageband, you can make ringtones for free.


Okay, thank you. I'll have to look all that up.

...heh, that's funny, I have Garage Band right in front of me in the lab at school. Thanks again.
 
2009-09-09 11:05:35 AM  

jutm543: You realize that the phone can do that, and it's just AT&T blocking it... which was, like, the entire point of this thread, right?


Yes, they are blocking customers from sending pics to iphones, thats why EVERY OTHER PHONE ON AT&T'S NETWORK CAN SEND PICS TO THEIR PHONES FROM OTHER PHONES!

It must be AT&T's fault and not the fault of some company that directs you to THEIR website to view your pics.

F*ck apple, lets not act like they are complete assholes.
 
2009-09-09 11:06:20 AM  
I must be the only person in the country that's never had a problem with AT&T, even when it was Cingular. I can't use it in the metro (yet), but people who talk on their phones on the metro are asswipes anyway.
 
2009-09-09 11:06:34 AM  
The flaw in the article/headline is assuming that iPhones are actually capable of being adequate in what they are supposed to be: a phone.

iPhone: does everything great except what it is supposed to do.
 
2009-09-09 11:07:12 AM  
I plan to switch over to Verizon in January when my wifes part of the plan comes up for renewal. That way I'm not paying as much to get out of my contract. Explain to me this: why is it that when I got a plan with AT&T with two additional lines, all at the same time, that the various lines 'renew' at different times?
 
2009-09-09 11:07:41 AM  
I'm in DC and iPhone service around here is great. (With the exception of Inauguration Day.... NO ONES cellphone worked that day, regardless of carrier. )
 
2009-09-09 11:07:55 AM  

jutm543: Rapmaster2000: I received my iPhone as a gift. I really appreciate the gift, but the iPhone sucks at being a phone. It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.

The worst part is that whenever I mention it some fanboy will tell me to "just email it", as if simple compatibility with every other phone is too much to ask for.

As soon as this thing goes kaput for good (another white screen of death yesterday), I'll be moving on from apple phones.

You realize that the phone can do that, and it's just AT&T blocking it... which was, like, the entire point of this thread, right?


You do realize that Apple didn't have to enter into a contract with AT&T, and did enter into said contract knowing that AT&T was going to do this.

But of course nothing is Apple's fault. It never is.
 
2009-09-09 11:07:58 AM  
Here's why I switched from Verizon to AT&T:

My fiancee stayed with Verizon and is paying roughly $85 per month for her email and internet on her non-blackberry phone. Her internet can't load half the pics, and is in that shiatty mobileweb2.0 interface. As far as we can tell, there is no last.fm streaming capability or any other internet radio applications for her phone or the other phones in her price range.

Meanwhile, although I can't load flash, I pay the same amount for full html internet capabilities and streaming radio on a more responsive and higher resolution screen. I can stream slacker radio and last.fm. Even though I assumed AT&T might not work in every location I wanted to go to, the locations I don't get reception are largely areas I rarely go to and off the beaten path. So to me it was worth switching at the risk of slightly worse coverage if I was going to get way more for my money.
 
2009-09-09 11:08:01 AM  
I for one am over AT&T. I've owned an iPhone and a 3G since they came out and I'm tired of my phone being throttled.

Hopefully G1s are smaller when this one finally croaks.
 
2009-09-09 11:08:26 AM  

DaddyRat: steamingpile: That article isnt entirely accurate, apple keeps all their work in house and refuses to release anything to AT&T so they cant find work arounds, apple wants AT&T to give them all their information so they can find the fixes but refuse to give information back to allow their engineers the chance to fix any issues.


And that's not entirely accurate, either. The iPhone OS 3.1 update (due out in less than two weeks, as mentioned by El Chode) was developed by AT&T. The whole thing about the AT&T network most likely not being to handle the onslaught of MMS and tethered traffic? That's probably accurate.


Actually it wasnt developed by AT&T engineers, it was developed by apple engineers contracted into AT&T, they are apple employees working at AT&T so in fact it wasnt developed by them but part of apple not working nice with others yet again.
 
2009-09-09 11:08:37 AM  
Mugato:
And I don't get the hatred towards people who prefer Apple products.


Could it be that we look upon those folks like we do at the brainless sheep that buy "Organic" anything for twice as much for a similar product?
 
2009-09-09 11:08:56 AM  
All of y'all need to drop that stupid iPhone and get a google phone with T-Mobile. I just got the new mytouch and I've played around with iPhones before and the google phone is so much easier to deal with. I don't have 3g where I live, but their regular internet is still fast. I went to Alabama last week and I had signal way out in the country, and my friends with iPhones were complaining how they had none. Moving the screen around is also a lot easier.

AT&T sucks, and will continue to suck.
 
2009-09-09 11:09:15 AM  
I've been on all three big carriers, and they all pretty much suck. Sprint was unusable in my apartment for some reason (worked right outside), Verizon "made a mistake" on my bill a few too many times, and AT&T has a shiat network.

Alas, I'm with AT&T. I like the iphone enough to deal with snails pace network now and then. Their inability to offer the services that the god damn phone advertises is looming large in my opinion of them though.
 
2009-09-09 11:09:41 AM  

El Chode: Because AT&T seems to enjoy not investing in their infrastructure it would seem.

Either way, here's the story from Chicago Tribune (new window)


while I appreciate the search for that article.. I still say AT&T is jacking around about it.

That has to be a cop out excuse. How many other phone users on their networks are MMS messaging right now? Why doesn't that kill their network? I'm willing to bet the amount of non iPhone owners using their current networks for MMS messaging is more than double the current iPhone owners wanting MMS.

 
2009-09-09 11:09:43 AM  

matt2891: I plan to switch over to Verizon in January when my wifes part of the plan comes up for renewal. That way I'm not paying as much to get out of my contract. Explain to me this: why is it that when I got a plan with AT&T with two additional lines, all at the same time, that the various lines 'renew' at different times?


You didn't read your adhesion contract thoroughly?
 
2009-09-09 11:10:12 AM  

steamingpile: jutm543: You realize that the phone can do that, and it's just AT&T blocking it... which was, like, the entire point of this thread, right?

Yes, they are blocking customers from sending pics to iphones, thats why EVERY OTHER PHONE ON AT&T'S NETWORK CAN SEND PICS TO THEIR PHONES FROM OTHER PHONES!
F*ck apple, lets not act like they are complete assholes.


um... since the 3.0 software came out in july, all iPhone 3Gs have had the ability to send/receive MMS - but AT&T has blocked it. this is an AT&T issue, not an apple issue.
 
2009-09-09 11:10:18 AM  
*puts down unlocked iphone on tmobile that tethers and mms's like ur mothers box*

lol @ at&t users

*mms*
 
2009-09-09 11:10:28 AM  
I have an LG dare and verizon, its all the touch screen of the iphone without the idouchery and the network is awesome.
 
2009-09-09 11:11:10 AM  
Milamber1a:
Thanks...

A big factor for us is that we do not get cell service at our house. It appears that verizon offers a network extender thats plug and play with our DSL, but there's nothing compatible for AT&T. The $64K question is who is building out their network more quickly out here.

Wifey D is a graphic designer and prefers the apple platform for everything, so thats a factor too. I couldnt care less. The most basic phone on the market would meet my needs. Like the one MBooda posted.
 
2009-09-09 11:11:33 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: Mugato: It tells me to find a Wi-Fi network, which I don't know how to do.

Starbucks, Barnes & Noble...your house?



Yeah but it asks for passwords and shiat. I just never took the time to figure it out or ask anyone about it. I don't need to play The Force Unleashed on my telephone that badly.
 
2009-09-09 11:12:19 AM  
Maybe Apple will get smart in 2010.
http://gomestic.com/consumer-information/apple-needs-to-say-goodbye-to​-att/
 
2009-09-09 11:12:56 AM  

BunkyBrewman: January 1, 1984 was a great day to be a stockholder of AT&T.

/just sayin'


You're absolutely right. It's just that as the poor schlub that has to figure out the cost basis for clients like this, it takes a good couple of hours to determine that there is basically no cost, and anything the stocks are worth now is basically all gain. Not worth my time.
 
2009-09-09 11:13:52 AM  

Penguin Death Squads: I have an LG dare and verizon, its all the touch screen of the iphone without the idouchery and the network is awesome.


how are the apps?
 
2009-09-09 11:14:10 AM  

vegasj: while I appreciate the search for that article.. I still say AT&T is jacking around about it.

That has to be a cop out excuse. How many other phone users on their networks are MMS messaging right now? Why doesn't that kill their network? I'm willing to bet the amount of non iPhone owners using their current networks for MMS messaging is more than double the current iPhone owners wanting MMS.


Oh of course it is. Though I'd be curious to see how effective it is. When I was on verizon, I had to scale down all my text messages to be within a certain dimension (I think 800 x 600 was the max it would let me text). One of my apps let me export any of my pix at much higher dimensions, not to mention adding significant amounts of information as far as saturation, contrast, etc. And there are a TON of apps that edit the photos as well that could significantly increase the size of these files.
 
2009-09-09 11:15:02 AM  
I would love to see the iPhone on Verizon's network.
I would hate to see the monthly bill for the iphone on Verizon's network.

You are looking at a $150 per month bill MINIMUM after all the fees and crap Verizon will make you add in.

And Verizon wouldn't disable tethering completely. They'd just disable it unless you add another $30 a month to your bill to enable it.

You want the apps store? That will be another $5 a month just to access it.

You want to connect to your PC for syncing? That will be a $40 software upgrade and cable because they will disable bluetooth and wifi file sharing.

Personally, I want an android phone (The new HTC Hero looks insane, but I'd settle for the HTC tattoo), but when it comes to carriers in the US, you're basically required to remove a limb or two, you just have to choose which ones.

/Verizon user, because every other network sucks around here.
//$50 a month, just for phone and text...and that's the minimum they'll let me pay.
 
2009-09-09 11:15:23 AM  

foo monkey: jasonmicron: The simple solution would be to raise the price of the data plans to discourage new customers and reduce the bandwidth usage.


The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.


Really? The cheapest Verizon "smartphone" plan (fewest minutes + unlimited data) is $80 /month (for 450 minutes), Sprint is $70/month (450 minutes), T-Mobile is $80/month (300 minutes), and AT&T is $70/month (450 minutes)...

I'm not seeing it...
 
2009-09-09 11:15:28 AM  

El Chode: Here's why I switched from Verizon to AT&T:

My fiancee stayed with Verizon and is paying roughly $85 per month for her email and internet on her non-blackberry phone. Her internet can't load half the pics, and is in that shiatty mobileweb2.0 interface. As far as we can tell, there is no last.fm streaming capability or any other internet radio applications for her phone or the other phones in her price range.

Meanwhile, although I can't load flash, I pay the same amount for full html internet capabilities and streaming radio on a more responsive and higher resolution screen. I can stream slacker radio and last.fm. Even though I assumed AT&T might not work in every location I wanted to go to, the locations I don't get reception are largely areas I rarely go to and off the beaten path. So to me it was worth switching at the risk of slightly worse coverage if I was going to get way more for my money.


What people forget is voice and data traffic are two differnent beasts and like someone said earlier, if the iphone was on verizon it would have the same issues but worse.

Still Im waiting for the Pre, I played with one in a sprint store and its nice, just as smooth OS and the hidden keyboard is saaaweeeeetttt!!!

If iphone doesnt get their shiat together and release it before they release the pre to other carriers they may be in a shiatload of trouble with blackberry and palm passing them in users.
 
2009-09-09 11:16:37 AM  

Mugato: FeeltheIllinoise: Its not my fault final cut pro is only $1,300

Holy shiat, it's that much? I use it for free at school and had no idea. Well, it's free until the student loans start kicking in.

And I don't get the hatred towards people who prefer Apple products.


Consider a fully loaded mac pro, some sort of black magic or kona card card and final cut studio 2, you could spend $10,000-$15,000. A comparable Avid system can get up to $90,000.

You could also do the same for a copy of logic, a mac pro and a apogee ensemble is about the same, and a protools HD3 is about $30,000, although logic isn't on par technically with protools yet, but it can get there if it wants.

So yea, its that cheap.
 
2009-09-09 11:17:12 AM  

steamingpile: That article isnt entirely accurate, apple keeps all their work in house and refuses to release anything to AT&T so they cant find work arounds, apple wants AT&T to give them all their information so they can find the fixes but refuse to give information back to allow their engineers the chance to fix any issues.

Dont forget AT&T wireless is really just cingular wireless which was one of the most competent wireless providers out there.

Also, neither verizon or T-Mobile are in a position to handle the data traffic across their networks either, they could handle the voice with degraded quality but the data service would be worse.

Im just waiting for them to release the Pre to verizon first so it can over take the iphone, mainly because I hate apple for wanting to control every aspect of their devices. I find it ironic that the same people who say bill gates just wants a monopoly to control all the flow will flock to apple who locks all their devices down to where you have to use their products or youre SOL.


I would say that article is more accurate than your post. The closest thing to "Locked Down" is my iPhone, and that isn't really that big a deal. The biggest problem with the iPhone is the ATT crappy service. Other than that, it's the perfect little portable device. You should try using a Mac sometime. Believe, you'll never go back.
 
2009-09-09 11:17:50 AM  

El Chode: vegasj: I call shenanigans. AT&T delaying both of those because they can't decide on how much ass-raping to charge for tethering or MMS.

MMS is coming out in 2 weeks. I don't believe I'm paying more for it.


You sure this is not a repeat from May?

Love my iPhone, ATT sucks.

Christ, force exclusivity for the most popular phone then whine like a biatch when people use it, yet don't free the phone to go elsewhere? Thanks, ATT!
 
2009-09-09 11:18:03 AM  

steamingpile: Still Im waiting for the Pre, I played with one in a sprint store and its nice, just as smooth OS and the hidden keyboard is saaaweeeeetttt!!!

If iphone doesnt get their shiat together and release it before they release the pre to other carriers they may be in a shiatload of trouble with blackberry and palm passing them in users.


There's an important difference here: I've always hated sliding phones and clamshells. I like the candybar style and is in fact something I was looking for and no carrier had (as far as a model I wound up liking). The iphone has no moving parts, which is a big reason why I had no interest in the pre.

I also don't text while driving so I have no need for the tactile sensation of a physical keyboard.
 
2009-09-09 11:20:09 AM  
Apple should have started their own cell network and service company with the iPhone.

Like they did iTunes store for music.
 
2009-09-09 11:20:43 AM  

El Chode: As much as it sucks, I'm still getting way more for my money with AT&T than I was with Verizon.


As I'm I, except replace Verizon with Sprint.
 
2009-09-09 11:20:59 AM  

vegasj: El Chode: Because AT&T seems to enjoy not investing in their infrastructure it would seem.

Either way, here's the story from Chicago Tribune (new window)

while I appreciate the search for that article.. I still say AT&T is jacking around about it.

That has to be a cop out excuse. How many other phone users on their networks are MMS messaging right now? Why doesn't that kill their network? I'm willing to bet the amount of non iPhone owners using their current networks for MMS messaging is more than double the current iPhone owners wanting MMS.


The iphone is network heavy, its always connecting and killing networks, if you have a device always connecting to your network it will kill it. Just ask any head of IT what thousands of people streaming audio or video will do to a network and then it is easy to understand why their network is taking a beating.

FlashHarry: um... since the 3.0 software came out in july, all iPhone 3Gs have had the ability to send/receive MMS - but AT&T has blocked it. this is an AT&T issue, not an apple issue.


It wasnt the sending, it was how apple sent them when they devised the device.

I am pissed nokia hasnt had a response for the iphone, they used to make the best phones now they are complete shiat.
 
2009-09-09 11:21:02 AM  

Im_Gumby: Mugato:
And I don't get the hatred towards people who prefer Apple products.

Could it be that we look upon those folks like we do at the brainless sheep that buy "Organic" anything for twice as much for a similar product?



Well first of all, I paid $100 for my iPhone because I was due for an upgrade. I wouldn't pay the $300 or whatever it is normally. And second, for some things, a Mac really is the better choice. If I was just some pretentious hipster who only used a Mac book to work on my screenplay at Starbucks then no, it's not worth it but for a lot of things, it is.

Still, the hate just seems to be a disproportionate reaction to simple hipster doffus-ness.

/people with Blackberrys who never take the BluTooth out of their ear are infinitely more obnoxious
 
2009-09-09 11:21:38 AM  

Shocktopus: You sure this is not a repeat from May?


Yes, very sure.

Now whether AT&T can pull it off properly after the delays is another question..
 
2009-09-09 11:21:44 AM  

Mugato: Yeah but it asks for passwords and shiat.


Then you're doing it wrong.
 
2009-09-09 11:21:44 AM  
Something like 90% of AT&T's customer growth is from iPhone consumers. IOW, they'd barely have any new customers without it. New customers + continuing revenue stream via 2-year contracts == ability to get credit to upgrade network.

beyond_all_walking: AT&T sucks, and will continue to suck.


But not as hard, and not in that weird German way that T-Mobile does.

/Ditched my T-Mobile Wang back in June after my contract expired
//Three replacements within the two year contract
///Bought an iPhone. Am pretty happy with it, and AT&T
 
2009-09-09 11:22:05 AM  

steamingpile: The iphone is network heavy, its always connecting and killing networks, if you have a device always connecting to your network it will kill it. Just ask any head of IT what thousands of people streaming audio or video will do to a network and then it is easy to understand why their network is taking a beating.


I understand the iPhone has a quick link icon that takes you right to Youtube...

but so do other phones.

 
2009-09-09 11:24:02 AM  
I want to run my IPhone on US Cellular's network. Would be nice to have a nice phone and a great network for a change.
 
2009-09-09 11:25:02 AM  

steamingpile: The iphone is network heavy, its always connecting and killing networks, if you have a device always connecting to your network it will kill it. Just ask any head of IT what thousands of people streaming audio or video will do to a network and then it is easy to understand why their network is taking a beating.


I admit I am killing their network right now streaming slacker radio. I also admit I'll kill it more when I get in my car and stream some more.

However, this is something that I discussed with AT&T when signing up and they said it's the whole point of the plan.

The only way I'd ever leave is if (a) someone offers the exact same service for less (I doubt Verizon would, since I hear if they get an iPhone it'll be the iPhone "lite" like in China) and/or (b) AT&T caps my bandwidth. If that's the case, I'll just go to some cheap ass basic phone and basic plan on Verizon again and wait until my job decides to pay for my connectivity.
 
Ant
2009-09-09 11:26:24 AM  

weave: I'm thinking I might ditch my iPhone for that Nokia N900 (on T-mobile) when it comes out...


If you're going to T-mobile, you should try an Android phone, like the My Touch
 
2009-09-09 11:26:56 AM  
Mugato:
I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks. It comes from the inability to download an attachment in an email, something I could do with my Razr. I asked one of the geniuses at Best Buy and he shrugged his shoulders and suggested that there might be some software for that. So no, the iPhone isn't perfect by any means but I still like it.

/"sonar" ringtone isn't that bad I suppose
//still wants the CTU ringtone back


There are ways of converting sound clips to ring tones. Just do a Google search and you'll find the info. Yes, it sucks because you have to jump through 40 hoops to do it, but you'll be able to enjoy that CTU ringtone again!

/Did it for my wife so she could have a snippet of her favorite song as her ringtone.
 
2009-09-09 11:27:19 AM  

FeeltheIllinoise: Consider a fully loaded mac pro, some sort of black magic or kona card card and final cut studio 2, you could spend $10,000-$15,000. A comparable Avid system can get up to $90,000.



Learn something new every day. There's also the convenience of Apple products being able to talk to each other with ease. Functionality that you have to jump through hoops for on a PC.

And as an aside, what's so great about Avid? The basics are pretty much the same as they are with Final Cut but I just don't dig the interface as much. What does Avid do that Final Cut doesn't?
 
2009-09-09 11:27:26 AM  
"Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

Are you freakin serious Mr. Dumbass?

/Facepalm!
 
2009-09-09 11:28:11 AM  

vegasj: Just ask any head of IT what thousands of people streaming audio or video will do to a network and then it is easy to understand why their network is taking a beating.


Yeah, Comcast has all those customers and thank God I can't actually DO anything with my 16 megabit connection (snark line to the left) or the network would just go down.
 
2009-09-09 11:28:28 AM  

johnsmith99: You should try using a Mac sometime. Believe, you'll never go back.


I've used a MacBook Pro for the last 3.5 years. On my next laptop, I'm going back to Windows. The Mac is way overpriced for what you get. The interface is nice, but the only real advantage I enjoy is the ability to use UNIX from the terminal.
 
Ant
2009-09-09 11:28:38 AM  

Brooklyn Irish Mets Fan: Fast, retarded on-screen keyboard optional, runs on a mobile linux os, has every app the other phones do.

I hear people complain about T-Mobile all the time, bu I always have service


I have the same. It's great. I'm sad that most of the newer Android phones will not have a physical keyboard.
 
2009-09-09 11:29:14 AM  

johnsmith99: I would say that article is more accurate than your post. The closest thing to "Locked Down" is my iPhone, and that isn't really that big a deal. The biggest problem with the iPhone is the ATT crappy service. Other than that, it's the perfect little portable device. You should try using a Mac sometime. Believe, you'll never go back.


Yeah Im sorry, until apple allows me to upgrade a computer I buy then I will never buy their product, and I had to use one for months when designing graphics for packaging. It was ok but for personal use I would never buy one.

El Chode: There's an important difference here: I've always hated sliding phones and clamshells. I like the candybar style and is in fact something I was looking for and no carrier had (as far as a model I wound up liking). The iphone has no moving parts, which is a big reason why I had no interest in the pre.


Well then, the new pixi is for your segment of the population then.

I hate sliding pieces as well, but the Pre's keyboard seems a lot more stable than others, mainly because its actually part of the case and is reinforced.
 
2009-09-09 11:29:19 AM  
I've been a WinMo fanboi for a long freaking time. Microsoft rules, Apple drools. So when my beloved HTC Tilt went tits-up at the beginning of this month, I grieved mightily. I loved that phone.

One of my long-haired, ultra-liberal, patchouli-smelling hippy friends somehow talked me into giving the iPhone a whirl. I usually ignore anything that godless commie has to say, too.

Pandora on iPhone has made me a believer. I see the error of my ways. My data usage has also gone through the freakin roof.
 
2009-09-09 11:29:35 AM  
"There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

Um, that's what they're PAYING FOR.

"Users expecting to just get in their Aston-Martin and drive however fast they want to are being unreasonable."

/corporations suck
//hard
 
2009-09-09 11:31:34 AM  

steamingpile: The iphone is network heavy, its always connecting and killing networks, if you have a device always connecting to your network it will kill it. Just ask any head of IT what thousands of people streaming audio or video will do to a network and then it is easy to understand why their network is taking a beating.


I saw a chart a few months ago that showed iPhone users using about 4 times the bandwidth of other users.

/3GS owner
//We be busy
 
2009-09-09 11:31:51 AM  

steamingpile: Well then, the new pixi is for your segment of the population then.

I hate sliding pieces as well, but the Pre's keyboard seems a lot more stable than others, mainly because its actually part of the case and is reinforced.


Except two problems: Sprint sucks here and is not an option as a carrier, just like T-Mobile; and I don't need the tactile keyboard and would prefer a phone with better resolution and a bigger screen at the expense of "feeling" my keys.
 
2009-09-09 11:32:08 AM  

steamingpile: What people forget is voice and data traffic are two differnent beasts and like someone said earlier, if the iphone was on verizon it would have the same issues but worse.


Yes and no.

ATT's 3G network is WCDMA/HSPA. It's combined voice and data and allows simultaneous voice and data. It's just packets. High data use affects voice packets because they're all fighting for the same bandwidth. (Even though voice has priority in theory)

Verizon's 3G data network is EVDO (Evolution Data Only) which as the name implies is data only. High data use here only affects other data users, not voice users.

My big problem with ATT is how poorly the network handles voice calls. Since the students are back here both my wife and I been having fun with one-way audio at our house.

Really - What it comes down to is trying to operate a premium device on a network that was neglected to begin with. All this crap about backhaul capacity is just that - crap. ATT simply refuses to pony up the cash to fix the problem. Verizon (landline) will happily sell them 100 Mbps TLS and Level 3 will happily sell them 100 Mbps metro ethernet. It just costs money which they won't spend.

/enjoys visiting Europe where GSM/3G networks work properly compared to ATT
 
2009-09-09 11:33:24 AM  

FlashHarry: blame the customer. great plan.

i love my iphone, but i farking hate AT&T. as soon as another carrier becomes available, i and legions of iphone users will jump ship.


Then that carrier's system will be overloaded and all the iPhone drones will biatch, moan and complain.
 
2009-09-09 11:33:38 AM  
I LoL'd!

AT&T to Make Faster 3G Technology Available in Six Major Cities This Year

so, the rest of us need to wait until the end of 2010... as long as you live in one of those 25 other cities.
 
2009-09-09 11:34:27 AM  
I used a friends phone this weekend on Verizon to send a picture to my iphone. What a PITA. The menu sucked, the network was slow. Iphones get used more because they are easy to use beside just sending a text message and calling. Too bad ATT tried to cheap out on the network with usage studies from all the other smartphones
 
2009-09-09 11:35:36 AM  

Radio Boy: vegasj: Just ask any head of IT what thousands of people streaming audio or video will do to a network and then it is easy to understand why their network is taking a beating.

Yeah, Comcast has all those customers and thank God I can't actually DO anything with my 16 megabit connection (snark line to the left) or the network would just go down.


Why did you quote me? That wasn't my line

 
2009-09-09 11:35:48 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I've used a MacBook Pro for the last 3.5 years. On my next laptop, I'm going back to Windows. The Mac is way overpriced for what you get. The interface is nice, but the only real advantage I enjoy is the ability to use UNIX from the terminal.


Really? The MBPs are as affordable as they have ever been and you're griping about the price? Three years ago I bought a white MB and it cost me $1500 after apple care and tax. I can get a much better product now (13" MBP) for the same price.
 
2009-09-09 11:36:16 AM  
Why doesn't someone organize a town hall about this

Rationing paid for services is something Hitler would have done
 
2009-09-09 11:37:13 AM  
In ATTs defense, I don't think anyone saw coming what a great device the iPhone is. I find myself using data multiple times a day with it and that doesn't even include the email accounts that I have it attached to.

Would you people please stop comparing the US data networks to places in Europe or Asia where the population densities are 10x what we have here. It really does make you sound completely ignorant.
 
2009-09-09 11:37:50 AM  
How to enable tethering on your iPhone, without jailbreaking:

Link (new window)

You're welcome.
 
2009-09-09 11:38:14 AM  

vegasj: I understand the iPhone has a quick link icon that takes you right to Youtube...

but so do other phones.


No, the iphone always is connecting to the network even in standby mode, its connecting, when I was reading those emails I realized how much of a beating their network would take. They need to spend millions to upgrade their network to handle it and lately it appears they are concentrating on wireless, now they just need to fire all these moronic landline people that cingular took on in the merger because they are dumb as bricks.
\

El Chode: I admit I am killing their network right now streaming slacker radio. I also admit I'll kill it more when I get in my car and stream some more.

However, this is something that I discussed with AT&T when signing up and they said it's the whole point of the plan.

The only way I'd ever leave is if (a) someone offers the exact same service for less (I doubt Verizon would, since I hear if they get an iPhone it'll be the iPhone "lite" like in China) and/or (b) AT&T caps my bandwidth. If that's the case, I'll just go to some cheap ass basic phone and basic plan on Verizon again and wait until my job decides to pay for my connectivity.


Oh Im not saying you are the problem, Im just saying that you add all the iphone users and you get the issues they are having now, there is not a wireless providers network that can handle this traffic yet. That is why I said that apple should have worked with AT&T on a way to cut down the amount of bandwidth that the device will take up.
 
2009-09-09 11:38:51 AM  

siromega: Rapmaster2000: I've used a MacBook Pro for the last 3.5 years. On my next laptop, I'm going back to Windows. The Mac is way overpriced for what you get. The interface is nice, but the only real advantage I enjoy is the ability to use UNIX from the terminal.

Really? The MBPs are as affordable as they have ever been and you're griping about the price? Three years ago I bought a white MB and it cost me $1500 after apple care and tax. I can get a much better product now (13" MBP) for the same price.


The majority of my work on a computer is music, photos, internet, and VPN. I can do all of this for about $500 with a Dell/HP/CheapChineseKnockoff. Why should I pay more?
 
2009-09-09 11:40:05 AM  

Mugato: Rapmaster2000: It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.


I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks. It comes from the inability to download an attachment in an email, something I could do with my Razr. I asked one of the geniuses at Best Buy and he shrugged his shoulders and suggested that there might be some software for that. So no, the iPhone isn't perfect by any means but I still like it.

/"sonar" ringtone isn't that bad I suppose
//still wants the CTU ringtone back


I created all my ringtones...it's not that difficult. You don't need any special software to do it either. Google is your friend.
 
2009-09-09 11:41:26 AM  

foo monkey: How to enable tethering on your iPhone, without jailbreaking:

Link (new window)

You're welcome.


To clarify, tethering is on every iPhone right NOW. AT&T has disabled the option to display the "turn on tethering" option in the menu. This carrier file simply enables the menu option.
 
2009-09-09 11:41:53 AM  

Jupiter's Thunder: Remember when phones made phone calls?

Everything old is new again.

/post irrelevant, nostalgic.


My Blackbery on Verizon makes calls just fine, thanks for asking.
 
2009-09-09 11:42:15 AM  

steamingpile: Oh Im not saying you are the problem, Im just saying that you add all the iphone users and you get the issues they are having now, there is not a wireless providers network that can handle this traffic yet.


They could handle the traffic, but they diverted previous profits away from capital reinvestment. They chose to have fat salaries, inefficient management, and big dividends all at the expense of their customers.

They wouldn't have had data at all if it weren't for Blackberries
 
2009-09-09 11:43:41 AM  

foo monkey: jasonmicron: The simple solution would be to raise the price of the data plans to discourage new customers and reduce the bandwidth usage.


The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.


I would check your facts.. Here on Verizon's site, the minimum plan for Smartphone data/voice plane is $99. I believe the iPhone plan starts at $79.99 for 450 minutes with data.

Not sure if this link works
 
2009-09-09 11:43:46 AM  

Mugato: I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks.


as pointed out, that's a YP not an AP..

next time, research..
 
2009-09-09 11:44:45 AM  

El Chode: Except two problems: Sprint sucks here and is not an option as a carrier, just like T-Mobile; and I don't need the tactile keyboard and would prefer a phone with better resolution and a bigger screen at the expense of "feeling" my keys.


From what I have been hearing is that Palm is going to release these devices to all other providers in the coming 6 months.

I have to stick to AT&T though which still sucks.
 
2009-09-09 11:45:40 AM  

ha-ha-guy: floor9: WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect.

Sitting here with my enV Touch showing full service in my cube, while the on-call AT&T phone has to reside on the windowsill because it gets no service in my building.

Sweet.

Our on call AT&T phone is two floors up, plugged in to the wall with the number forwarded to a different phone. Whichever engineer is on call has to go up and change the forward number over to his cell. In the end we just decided it was easier than playing "find service" game.

At home, my wife's iPhone randomly goes from full signal in our bedroom, to analog to no service and back again. I've actually found it is easier to email her and tell her go find service and call me, than to try calling her cellphone. Good job AT&T.

/trying to get the wife addicted to my Omnia so I lure her off that shiat ass network


I've been with Cingular-AT&T for years...not because of any adoration, only because I can get a signal most anywhere I've driven in my state (Michigan). Unfortunately, the same is not true of my work phone on T-Mobile. I'm always dropping calls on that phone. I'd love to switch to T-Mobile because I'd get a hefty discount (the company I work for is another Deutsche Telekom subsidiary).
 
2009-09-09 11:47:19 AM  

mynameist: Would you people please stop comparing the US data networks to places in Europe or Asia where the population densities are 10x what we have here. It really does make you sound completely ignorant.


The population density of London is 10x that of New York?!?!?

Wow, they must be hiding a lot of people then. The last time I was in London it wasn't *that* crowded.

Come on, even in rural India I've used GSM networks with better coverage than ATT has in most cities in the US. And they pay a fraction of a penny per minute, not near what we pay.

/sorry, there's no excuse for it
 
2009-09-09 11:47:23 AM  
Maybe they need to stop the hookers and blow habit then invest in better infrastructure. If people are paying as much as I am then they have more then enough money to rebuild everything.
 
2009-09-09 11:49:10 AM  

FlashHarry: Penguin Death Squads: I have an LG dare and verizon, its all the touch screen of the iphone without the idouchery and the network is awesome.

how are the apps?


Not sure if troll, but as you may already know, there's few to none for non iphones. Then again, most apps are worthless money pits, and that goes along with the Idouchery i spoke of. Maybe i see my phone as a tool and not a toy but the apps shiat was always stupid IMO.
 
2009-09-09 11:50:42 AM  
My new job bought me and pays my bill for my new IPhone 3Gs about three weeks ago.

So far......I can't ever see myself going back to a "regular" cell phone. It's pretty much been everything I could ever want in a phone.

I haven't noticed/had any speed or connection problems....yet.

\Was using a Motorola ZN5, which was nice as far as data-less phones go.
 
2009-09-09 11:50:53 AM  

Rapmaster2000: siromega: Rapmaster2000: I've used a MacBook Pro for the last 3.5 years. On my next laptop, I'm going back to Windows. The Mac is way overpriced for what you get. The interface is nice, but the only real advantage I enjoy is the ability to use UNIX from the terminal.

Really? The MBPs are as affordable as they have ever been and you're griping about the price? Three years ago I bought a white MB and it cost me $1500 after apple care and tax. I can get a much better product now (13" MBP) for the same price.

The majority of my work on a computer is music, photos, internet, and VPN. I can do all of this for about $500 with a Dell/HP/CheapChineseKnockoff. Why should I pay more?


To look cool?
 
2009-09-09 11:52:02 AM  

El Chode: that, when you're not paying for things, they have less money to invest in infrastructure, so it's a double-edged sword.


The reason I jailbroke my iPhone is simple. There are plenty of apps NOT in the Apple App Store that I like to use. I assume the risk for using non-Apple approved applications. That's MY choice. I paid for the hardware, I'm paying AT&T for the service...so it's MY phone...I should be able to do whatever I want to do to it (taking into consideration I've voided my warranty).
 
2009-09-09 11:52:10 AM  
I still have my original 2G iPhone. Didn't want to upgrade and get tied into any further contract with AT&T because of their lack of capacity.

That being said, where I live I have no problems getting great phone signal and data is good for Edge network.

I would move to the new iPhone if I knew it was going on a network willing to support it.

/jailbroke phone to get tehthering.
//works great.
 
2009-09-09 11:52:39 AM  
Once Verizon allows real phones on its network, they'll crumple too.

It's not like they haven't dramatically oversold their capacity just like AT&T did.

US Cell providers can all go suck a dick.
 
2009-09-09 11:52:42 AM  

floor9: serial_crusher: Maybe AT&T should lift some of the burden by allowing us to skip out or our contracts and take our iPhones somewhere else.

America was built on capitalism and competition, son. Survival of the fittest. Let the market decide.

So why do you hate America?


I'll see if I can field this one. I have no problem with the market deciding but when it comes down to it, it doesn't work that way. The market decided that there should be no AIG, and yet we still have it.

The truth of the matter is, that a senator and 3 congressman are cheaper than upgrading the network. A couple more of each is cheaper than paying Americans to field customer service calls when we can relax the rules about off shoring and maybe get a few more visas.

The next thing you know we have a bill about soil conservation that couldn't get passed until someone added some protection for customers who want to sue phone companies.

How much leverage do you think communications companies have at the moment? We're fighting a war on terror. "Oh you want to tap phones, well ya we'd love to help but this is an expense for us and blah blah blah."

When companies can be too big or too important to fail the free market system breaks down.
 
2009-09-09 11:54:30 AM  
Pretty happy with my Palm Pre. Will be even happier with 4G and some more farking apps.
 
2009-09-09 11:55:35 AM  
AT&T Sucks. However, as the rumor goes, Verizon had a shot at it. Apple went to them and they told Apple to shove it.

No one knew the iPhone was going to even sell. A $599phone ? It'll never sell. AT&T Signed on for exclusivity because they were going to invest in Visual Voicemail (and it looks like nothing else).

If you want some kickass service and phones, the FCC needs to mandate GSM here on forward and tell CDMA to shove it. Capitalism is good to a point, but look at how well Europe is doing with a 'mandated' standard.

/No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
 
2009-09-09 11:56:32 AM  
I had to get a new cell recently. I'm with Verizon and so I picked up the enV3 (non-touch, since I don't like touch pads on my phone.)

I would love to get an iPhone (only phone I'll have with a touch pad), but refuse to go with AT&T. Needless to say I'm following the rumors about the iPhone coming to Verizon quite carefully. The exclusivity contract with AT&T runs out in late Dec. 2010. This gives Verizon about a year to get their new network system (or whatever it is, I've forgotten the actual name for it) functional so they can hit the ground running. Preferably with an unlimited monthly plan.

Verizon stands to make quite a bit of money if they do it right. Which they seem to have done so far...

...despite the rather abysmal help you usually get at an official Verizon store (3rd party FTW!)

/In the meantime I'm enjoying my enV3.
 
2009-09-09 11:57:42 AM  

slykens1: Come on, even in rural India I've used GSM networks with better coverage than ATT has in most cities in the US. And they pay a fraction of a penny per minute, not near what we pay.


Indiana is far from a rural state. You have to keep going west to get a clue what most of the US is really like.
 
2009-09-09 11:59:30 AM  
The reason I jailbroke my iPhone is simple. There are plenty of apps NOT in the Apple App Store that I like to use. I assume the risk for using non-Apple approved applications. That's MY choice. I paid for the hardware, I'm paying AT&T for the service...so it's MY phone...I should be able to do whatever I want to do to it (taking into consideration I've voided my warranty).

I thought simple OS jailbreaking didn't void the warranty since you technically weren't doing anything that a clean OS install couldn't fix. Though I agree with your point otherwise.
 
2009-09-09 11:59:36 AM  

mynameist: slykens1: Come on, even in rural India I've used GSM networks with better coverage than ATT has in most cities in the US. And they pay a fraction of a penny per minute, not near what we pay.

Indiana is far from a rural state. You have to keep going west to get a clue what most of the US is really like.


This is either really funny or really dumb, but I'm not sure which.
 
2009-09-09 12:01:36 PM  
"3G networks were not designed effectively for this kind of usage."

No you AT&T asswipe, they were designed for EXACTLY that kind of usage, you just didn't plan for this much capacity.
 
2009-09-09 12:03:05 PM  

slayer199: FlashHarry: blame the customer. great plan.

i love my iphone, but i farking hate AT&T. as soon as another carrier becomes available, i and legions of iphone users will jump ship.

THIS! ^^^^

I'm far from an Apple Fanboy...in fact, other than my iPhone, I hate most Apple products. I love my iPhone though.


So This
 
2009-09-09 12:05:27 PM  

El Chode: The reason jailbreaking does it is because it's "illegal" technically in AT&T and Apple's eyes much in the same was as a Grateful Dead bootleg is to a record label. Sure you can get your hands on it and get a lot of things you can't get from any official release, but it just robs the big guy of the opportunity to make you pay for it and increase profits down the line.


Funny you would pick the Grateful Dead as an example. They would always allow people to record their concerts and even had special areas where people with equipment could set up.
 
2009-09-09 12:06:56 PM  

you have pee hands: This is either really funny or really dumb, but I'm not sure which.

in re mynameist's self pwn...

Employee or fanboi, I figure.
 
2009-09-09 12:08:15 PM  

Rapmaster2000: The majority of my work on a computer is music, photos, internet, and VPN. I can do all of this for about $500 with a Dell/HP/CheapChineseKnockoff. Why should I pay more?


I quit paying for cheap laptops when I got sick of fixing them. I (among other things) fix computers at work, I don't want to do it when I get home. The only issues I've had with my MB are hardware related. I even started telling the family/friends/acquaintances for whom I fixed computers to either buy a Mac or find someone else to do their tech support (I didn't mind helping them learn how to use the mac, and it always seemed to be easier for them after using iPhoto vs whatever garbage software comes with your camera or Vista).
 
2009-09-09 12:09:33 PM  

Penguin Death Squads: FlashHarry: Penguin Death Squads: I have an LG dare and verizon, its all the touch screen of the iphone without the idouchery and the network is awesome.

how are the apps?

Not sure if troll, but as you may already know, there's few to none for non iphones. Then again, most apps are worthless money pits, and that goes along with the Idouchery i spoke of. Maybe i see my phone as a tool and not a toy but the apps shiat was always stupid IMO.


"idouchery?" nice. do you suck your mother's dick with that mouth?

oh, and you're wrong; the apps are what make the iphone a game changing device. have fun with your "phone."
 
2009-09-09 12:09:52 PM  
The reason I jailbroke my iPhone is simple. There are plenty of apps NOT in the Apple App Store that I like to use. I assume the risk for using non-Apple approved applications. That's MY choice. I paid for the hardware, I'm paying AT&T for the service...so it's MY phone...I should be able to do whatever I want to do to it (taking into consideration I've voided my warranty).

On the mytouch you can get apps that aren't on the specific market just by disabling the block for nonmarket apps on the phone. And it's android, so you can re-write programs on it.
/just sayin.
 
2009-09-09 12:10:14 PM  

steamingpile: I am pissed nokia hasnt had a response for the iphone, they used to make the best phones now they are complete shiat.


Nokia N900 (suppposedly T-Mobile will have it as a subsidized phone, hopefully it'll come out unlocked).
 
2009-09-09 12:11:06 PM  

Radio Boy: vegasj: Just ask any head of IT what thousands of people streaming audio or video will do to a network and then it is easy to understand why their network is taking a beating.

Yeah, Comcast has all those customers and thank God I can't actually DO anything with my 16 megabit connection (snark line to the left) or the network would just go down.


/threadjack

I dumped Comcast for U-Verse...and I have an 18Mb connection and no limits (yet) on how much I can download...and yeah, I DL a lot.

Newsgroups FTW

/end threadjack

/loves U-Verse
//hates AT&T's mobile network
 
2009-09-09 12:11:50 PM  

floor9: Barakku: People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!

Unbelievable. Why don't customers take some personal responsibility? Just because they're on a $90 plan doesn't mean they can go sending picture mail whenever they feel like!


Nice the old phony "personal responsibility" nonsense. Um, how about people do it because they pay for it. People expect it because the carrier claims they can do it. Don't blame users because AT&T mismanaged the entire thing from the start. It's a stupid argument you are trying to make.
 
2009-09-09 12:12:17 PM  

Mugato: Rapmaster2000: It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.


I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks. It comes from the inability to download an attachment in an email, something I could do with my Razr. I asked one of the geniuses at Best Buy and he shrugged his shoulders and suggested that there might be some software for that. So no, the iPhone isn't perfect by any means but I still like it.

/"sonar" ringtone isn't that bad I suppose
//still wants the CTU ringtone back


not a fan of Apple, but I like my iPhone - no problem with AT&T either, apart from the expense...

You can create ringtones of your own, in iTunes. Google to find instructions, it isn't difficult.

/ I have Doctor Who theme as ringtone
// among many others...
 
2009-09-09 12:12:44 PM  
Didn't AT&T sign the exclusive contract because noone else wanted to?

Anyways, I have no problem with my HTC Kaiser on AT&T. Maybe it's just shiatty iPhone engineering.
 
2009-09-09 12:12:55 PM  

foo monkey: The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.


My Blackberry unlimited data plan on T-Mobile was $20 per month before I canceled it about 6 months ago. But other than being able to check my e-mail, it sucked for everything.
 
2009-09-09 12:13:39 PM  
I'm not sure what people are talking about when they reference a 100 dollar per month plan.

My cell phone bill for my iPhone, including 450 daytime minutes (pratically unlimited night/weekend), 1000 text messages, and unlimited data, even after taxes and fees, is $77.10 per month.
 
2009-09-09 12:14:10 PM  
*uses the bullet-proof BlackBerry for email and couldn't care less about stupid ifart apps and other shiat that keeps the gadget tards entertained*
 
2009-09-09 12:14:56 PM  

floor9: serial_crusher: Maybe AT&T should lift some of the burden by allowing us to skip out or our contracts and take our iPhones somewhere else.

America was built on capitalism and competition, son. Survival of the fittest. Let the market decide.

So why do you hate America?


If the iPhones that are out of contract were allowed to go on other networks, you would SEE the market decide. But the market CANT because of the exclusivity. Your comment makes no sense.

And FWIW, the exclusivity is really a lifetime contract if you cant take it to another carrier once your two-year agreement is up.

/investigating jailbreaking
 
2009-09-09 12:16:40 PM  

MemeSlave: suck it, hipsters


Feeling a little inferior?
 
2009-09-09 12:17:05 PM  

steamingpile: vegasj: I understand the iPhone has a quick link icon that takes you right to Youtube...

but so do other phones.

No, the iphone always is connecting to the network even in standby mode, its connecting, when I was reading those emails I realized how much of a beating their network would take. They need to spend millions to upgrade their network to handle it and lately it appears they are concentrating on wireless, now they just need to fire all these moronic landline people that cingular took on in the merger because they are dumb as bricks.
\
El Chode: I admit I am killing their network right now streaming slacker radio. I also admit I'll kill it more when I get in my car and stream some more.

However, this is something that I discussed with AT&T when signing up and they said it's the whole point of the plan.

The only way I'd ever leave is if (a) someone offers the exact same service for less (I doubt Verizon would, since I hear if they get an iPhone it'll be the iPhone "lite" like in China) and/or (b) AT&T caps my bandwidth. If that's the case, I'll just go to some cheap ass basic phone and basic plan on Verizon again and wait until my job decides to pay for my connectivity.

Oh Im not saying you are the problem, Im just saying that you add all the iphone users and you get the issues they are having now, there is not a wireless providers network that can handle this traffic yet. That is why I said that apple should have worked with AT&T on a way to cut down the amount of bandwidth that the device will take up.


I agree. On a Blackberry, Slacker allows you to cache stations to the device. No streaming means...

1) Less bandwidth used
2) Better battery life on phone
3) You can listen without a cell signal, i.e. on the subway.

Why they haven't done this with an iphone, I'll never know.
 
2009-09-09 12:17:41 PM  
My Blackberry unlimited data plan on T-Mobile was $20 per month before I canceled it about 6 months ago. But other than being able to check my e-mail, it sucked for everything.

The data plan with T-Mobile works if you have a capabale phone. Their blackberries suck.
 
2009-09-09 12:20:29 PM  
Oh, AT&T. Don't get me started. Damnit. Too late. AT&T's been jacking me around for going on two weeks now. I use 3G heavily (1-2 gigs/month of data transfer) at one location. I got slowish but consistent speeds there for over a year then it suddenly went to hell. Uplink speed was still 300-330kbps but incoming speed was 200kbps or less. Dropped connections, stalled web pages, etc. I had to do my own damn comparison tests at other locations (1200-2700 down/300 up) to prove my out-of-warranty phone wasn't at fault. They grudgingly sent an engineer out several days later.

"Hey, something's farked up at your location. Those speeds suck. We're working with our vendor to resolve this." Okay, that's not a direct quote but that's the gist. Great. They'd acknowledged the problem was with their equipment and they were fixing it. Not. A week later, speed still sucks. Call back. "Sorry about that. We haven't heard back from Ericsson."

"It's been a week. Do you think maybe you could step it up?"

"We've told them there's a problem. That's all we can do. We'll call you when we have a resolution."

I told him I'd be calling back every day until this is resolved or until I get tired of their crap and switch to a carrier that can provide service.

And, no, I don't have an iphone. And, yes, it would be worth paying the $200 fee to NOT pay the next 9 months of the contract. And I'll fight like hell to avoid that fee because they're failing to provide the contracted service.
 
2009-09-09 12:23:57 PM  
Step 1: Lock in iPhone to your sh*tty service.
Step 2: promise speed to Apple to get them to agree to it and gain monopoly over decent technology
Step 3: Fail to deliver and blame the product for being popular and doing what it was advertised by the carrier it could do.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit!
 
2009-09-09 12:24:05 PM  

you have pee hands: mynameist: slykens1: Come on, even in rural India I've used GSM networks with better coverage than ATT has in most cities in the US. And they pay a fraction of a penny per minute, not near what we pay.

Indiana is far from a rural state. You have to keep going west to get a clue what most of the US is really like.

This is either really funny or really dumb, but I'm not sure which.


Well Indiana is very populous compared to say....Nebraska, Wyoming, North/South Daktoa, Idaho, Utah, and Alaska. So congrats...you rank atleast 42 out of 50.
 
2009-09-09 12:24:27 PM  

Mugato: And as an aside, what's so great about Avid? The basics are pretty much the same as they are with Final Cut but I just don't dig the interface as much. What does Avid do that Final Cut doesn't?


I've only used AVID once or twice and didn't really like it (probably due to being more familiar with other NLEs), but its dominance in the industry is fading. It gained that position pretty much by being the only one around for a while. At the time, their software and hardware was unparalleled. But others have caught up, especially in this age where practically anyone can afford to create films, commercials, etc.

There's speculation that AVID could become exclusively a hardware company, which would really open the door for Apple or Adobe to take over.

Then again, there's also a lot of concern over Apple's commitment to its pro apps division.
 
2009-09-09 12:24:32 PM  

jack21221: My cell phone bill for my iPhone, including 450 daytime minutes (pratically unlimited night/weekend), 1000 text messages, and unlimited data, even after taxes and fees, is $77.10 per month.


You'll need all those minutes and text messages to make up for the dropped calls.
 
2009-09-09 12:24:49 PM  

cuzsis: I had to get a new cell recently. I'm with Verizon and so I picked up the enV3 (non-touch, since I don't like touch pads on my phone.)

I would love to get an iPhone (only phone I'll have with a touch pad), but refuse to go with AT&T. Needless to say I'm following the rumors about the iPhone coming to Verizon quite carefully. The exclusivity contract with AT&T runs out in late Dec. 2010. This gives Verizon about a year to get their new network system (or whatever it is, I've forgotten the actual name for it) functional so they can hit the ground running. Preferably with an unlimited monthly plan.

Verizon stands to make quite a bit of money if they do it right. Which they seem to have done so far...

...despite the rather abysmal help you usually get at an official Verizon store (3rd party FTW!)

/In the meantime I'm enjoying my enV3.


New 4G network is called LTE (Long Term Evolution)
 
2009-09-09 12:25:16 PM  
By the way; where is the story?
 
2009-09-09 12:27:51 PM  
""Overnight we're seeing a radical shift in how people are using their phones"

Really, overnight? The thing has been out for over 2 years, and within months of it's release, most in the know knew it was going to be a hit. 10 million units later, it's an overnight shift?
 
2009-09-09 12:29:29 PM  

bemis23: Well Indiana is very populous compared to say....Nebraska, Wyoming, North/South Daktoa, Idaho, Utah, and Alaska. So congrats...you rank atleast 42 out of 50.


While a somewhat appropriate comment, reread mynameist's comment again including the quote. My original post didn't have anything to do with Indiana.

/but it seems everyone wants to talk about Indiana, anyway
 
2009-09-09 12:32:07 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I've used a MacBook Pro for the last 3.5 years. On my next laptop, I'm going back to Windows. The Mac is way overpriced for what you get. The interface is nice, but the only real advantage I enjoy is the ability to use UNIX from the terminal.


I was considering a laptop recently. For what I want, I configured a Dell studio laptop for $900, an Asus for also around $900, or a Macbook Pro for $1250.

Honestly, it's not a huge difference, so I would have to decide if $350 is worth OSX and some other perks. It's certainly a much better designed notebook than either the Dell or the Asus.

The big difference is that both Dell and Asus have a $500 option and Apple does not. But since I'm not really interested in that option it's not a big deal to me.
 
2009-09-09 12:33:37 PM  

siromega: The reason Verizon's network doesn't have these problems is because they don't have a device like the iPhone. I will continue to assert that had Apple and Verizon gotten together to do the iPhone they'd be the one having network difficulties.


Yeah, because BlackBerries with MMS, full email support like PDFs and Excel docs, and BlackBerry Messenger don't take up any bandwidth at all.

Dumbass.
 
2009-09-09 12:35:01 PM  

FlashHarry: how can AT&T legally claim "more bars in more places" when in fact it has some of the worst reception of any us carrier?


Because it "bars" you from using standard features in more places.
 
2009-09-09 12:36:13 PM  

foo monkey: The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.


as someone who works for Verizon Wireless, this seems to be about the standard pricing for Blackberry/PDA data plans. Unless you're factoring in other things...


Driedsponge: I would love to see the iPhone on Verizon's network.
I would hate to see the monthly bill for the iphone on Verizon's network.

You are looking at a $150 per month bill MINIMUM after all the fees and crap Verizon will make you add in.

And Verizon wouldn't disable tethering completely. They'd just disable it unless you add another $30 a month to your bill to enable it.

You want the apps store? That will be another $5 a month just to access it.


so you want everything, but don't want to pay for it. Cool.
 
2009-09-09 12:38:18 PM  

kliq: I worked tech support for AT&T so yadda yadda yadda...

Anyway, there's no way in hell I'd use an iPhone...Apple has exclusive rights in dealing with the phone itself, and AT&T has exclusive rights in dealing with the network itself. Your iPhone doesn't work? Expect to be bounced back between two companies pointing fingers.


Actually I find that quite clear. If my service isn't connecting, or I can't make a call or get to the web, I call AT&T. If my battery dies, or the screen doesn't light up, I call Apple.
 
2009-09-09 12:42:06 PM  

Pvt. Bytes: Actually I find that quite clear. If my service isn't connecting, or I can't make a call or get to the web, I call AT&T. If my battery dies, or the screen doesn't light up, I call Apple.


You call, but does anyone answer?
 
2009-09-09 12:42:51 PM  

bemis23: you have pee hands: mynameist: slykens1: Come on, even in rural India I've used GSM networks with better coverage than ATT has in most cities in the US. And they pay a fraction of a penny per minute, not near what we pay.

Indiana is far from a rural state. You have to keep going west to get a clue what most of the US is really like.

This is either really funny or really dumb, but I'm not sure which.

Well Indiana is very populous compared to say....Nebraska, Wyoming, North/South Daktoa, Idaho, Utah, and Alaska. So congrats...you rank atleast 42 out of 50.


The original comment was referring to India.

The population density arguments for internet bandwidth / cell phone coverage always fall a little flat in light of the excellent coverage in the Nordic countries, which are very sparsely populated. And I don't know why you'd need to go into the northern plains to "get a clue what the US is really like". There may be a lot of land there, but there just aren't that many people living somewhere between Helena and Minot to complain about bad coverage. Most people live places like New Jersey, Houston, and LA which are quite densely populated, and this really isn't different from anywhere else in the world though our suburbs sprawl more. All in all there was so much wrong with mynameist's comment I'm not sure whether the whole thing was supposed to be like the Austria/Australia meme.
 
2009-09-09 12:42:53 PM  
"Hey, we only sold you the phone and the service. It's your own damned fault for using the thing."
 
2009-09-09 12:42:56 PM  
I love how so many people in this thread think that Verizon wouldn't be having the exact same problems if they had exclusivity contracts with Apple for the iPhone. The iPhone is an added burden on top of all the other smart phones that use the data network. If Verizon had exclusive rights to the iPhone on top of all their users who have smart phones, it would almost certainly be the exact same situation, except you guys would be biatching about how much Verizon sucks instead of ATT.

/love my iPhone
//don't have any of the problems the article suggests
 
2009-09-09 12:44:03 PM  

jtown: And I'll fight like hell to avoid that fee because they're failing to provide the contracted service.


Can you tell me where you are guaranteed minimum bandwidth in your contract? Shiatty service doesn't mean they aren't providing the contracted service.
 
2009-09-09 12:44:38 PM  
I love my iPhone.

I don't give a rat's ass about the 3G network, but it's never failed me here in DC or all the way up to Pittsburgh. it's slow as hell, but I don't care. It's internet over a phone line guys! Remember modems?

By the way, the article is farked.

I get my internet stuff from a computer and DL it to the phone. Ta-Da! Works fine. All you people who think that the internet is a right granted by God and just as ubiquitous need to learn a few things about networking. Try googling Alohanet to learn about latency.

\and get off my iLawn.
 
2009-09-09 12:44:52 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Mugato: And as an aside, what's so great about Avid? The basics are pretty much the same as they are with Final Cut but I just don't dig the interface as much. What does Avid do that Final Cut doesn't?

I've only used AVID once or twice and didn't really like it (probably due to being more familiar with other NLEs), but its dominance in the industry is fading. It gained that position pretty much by being the only one around for a while. At the time, their software and hardware was unparalleled. But others have caught up, especially in this age where practically anyone can afford to create films, commercials, etc.

There's speculation that AVID could become exclusively a hardware company, which would really open the door for Apple or Adobe to take over.

Then again, there's also a lot of concern over Apple's commitment to its pro apps division.



That's interesting. I have one professor who will only work with Avid, another who will only work with Final Cut. As a former programmer, I know that the Final Cut cat knows a shiatload more than the Avid dude does. So I'm leaning towards Final Cut.
 
2009-09-09 12:46:51 PM  

mynameist: slykens1: Come on, even in rural India I've used GSM networks with better coverage than ATT has in most cities in the US. And they pay a fraction of a penny per minute, not near what we pay.

Indiana is far from a rural state. You have to keep going west to get a clue what most of the US is really like.


Ok Ive read through the thread but this is still cracking me up.
 
2009-09-09 12:49:13 PM  

bartink: Pretty happy with my Palm Pre.


I asked to try the keyboard on the Pre at Best Buy. Started typing on this ridiculously small thing and made no errors whatsoever. Seriously. Signed a two-year contract within five minutes. It's been over a month & major regrets yet.

www.screenwritingforhollywood.com
 
2009-09-09 12:51:08 PM  
My cell phone make calls. Thats all I need it to do. When I get out of the house, I like to leave that other stuff at the house and actually enjoy this weird thing called real life
 
2009-09-09 12:51:25 PM  
Does this mean that tethering is not going to happen?

Time to rage. Iphone is running about 5 years behind every other standard cellphone in so many areas.
 
2009-09-09 12:51:27 PM  

Mootwo: FlashHarry: how can AT&T legally claim "more bars in more places" when in fact it has some of the worst reception of any us carrier?

Because it "bars" you from using standard features in more places.


*giggity*
 
2009-09-09 12:51:53 PM  

FlashHarry: blame the customer. great plan.

i love my iphone, but i farking hate AT&T. as soon as another carrier becomes available, i and legions of iphone users will jump ship.


THIS.

AT&T sucks balls. It's the most overpriced, and their coverage blows. Verizon blows the doors off of AT&T in most cases.
 
2009-09-09 12:53:48 PM  
I'm on my iPhone, suckin' all yer bandwidth.

/turns on wifi for the heavy stuff
//wonders if they'll redo the rate plans to compensate themselves for the inconvenience...again...
 
2009-09-09 12:53:52 PM  

floor9: Barakku: People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!

Unbelievable. Why don't customers take some personal responsibility? Just because they're on a $90 plan doesn't mean they can go sending picture mail whenever they feel like!


you forgot the word unlimited after 90
 
2009-09-09 12:54:01 PM  

Penguin Death Squads: I have an LG dare and verizon, its all the touch screen of the iphone without the idouchery and the network is awesome.


hmmm...this 'idouchery' you speak of. Is this the same idouchery that just allowed me to check my email more quickly than if I was at my computer? Or maybe it's the same idouchery that allowed me to watch espn video sports highlights while sitting on the bus in rush hour traffic.

No No. It MUST be the same idouchery that allowed me to bring up a digital google map, find my location using GPS, allow me to type in my destination address, and route me there, thereby preventing me from getting lost and being late to my friends wedding.

Go ahead and open up maps.google.com on your LG Dare and see how far you get. no no, go ahead, I'll wait...

I'm not trying to pick on you, nor do i have any problem with anyone on Verizon. I had verizon for years and recently switched to AT&T and got an iPhone. Is the service perfect? no, but neither is verizon's. I've dropped tons of calls using Verizon's network, and I have had similar experiences with AT&T. The majority of the time, it works, and I bet for most of you, that's the case. is the iPhone perfect? no, but neither is the Dare, or the enV touch, or any phone. They all have strengths and weaknesses. It's simply a matter of preference.
 
2009-09-09 12:54:29 PM  
"There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."


Yeah, how dare AT&T offer me an unlimited data plan, and I pay for that plan as agreed upon, and then I want to use that plan that I payed for. I'm just being unreasonalble.
 
2009-09-09 12:54:40 PM  

FlashHarry: blame the customer. great plan.

i love my iphone, but i farking hate AT&T. as soon as another carrier becomes available, i and legions of iphone users will jump ship.


You can do it now...iPod Touch (you know, your phone without the phone) can use Skype to place calls where ever there's wifi. And, you can have wifi where ever you want to go. It's a lot cheaper than the AT&T plan, too.
 
2009-09-09 12:56:40 PM  

iollow: Rapmaster2000: I've used a MacBook Pro for the last 3.5 years. On my next laptop, I'm going back to Windows. The Mac is way overpriced for what you get. The interface is nice, but the only real advantage I enjoy is the ability to use UNIX from the terminal.

I was considering a laptop recently. For what I want, I configured a Dell studio laptop for $900, an Asus for also around $900, or a Macbook Pro for $1250.

Honestly, it's not a huge difference, so I would have to decide if $350 is worth OSX and some other perks. It's certainly a much better designed notebook than either the Dell or the Asus.

The big difference is that both Dell and Asus have a $500 option and Apple does not. But since I'm not really interested in that option it's not a big deal to me.


Thats a 30% price difference at that price. I am not sure what you consider a huge price difference but I think at 30% this should qualify as one.
 
2009-09-09 12:57:18 PM  

Goodfella: Does this mean that tethering is not going to happen?

Time to rage. Iphone is running about 5 years behind every other standard cellphone in so many areas.


You could just get a better phone. I don't pay for most apps(and can make my own fairly easily), I'm not forced to break warranty to download "unapproved" apps, I don't pay for tethering, I've got a slideout keyboard and a stylus to go with my touchscreen, and it only cost me 50$.

I'm also fairly happy with my AT&T coverage in LA, which I wasn't when I had my Blackjack.
 
2009-09-09 01:02:37 PM  

siromega: The reason Verizon's network doesn't have these problems is because they don't have a device like the iPhone. I will continue to assert that had Apple and Verizon gotten together to do the iPhone they'd be the one having network difficulties.

I hope Apple announces a CDMA iPhone for Sprint/Verizon next year. If nothing else, AT&T will see a bunch of customers leave and the AT&T network performance will get better. Its a lot easier for Apple to sell 15M phones per year if they can distribute that bandwidth demand across three separate cell phone networks (T-Mobile not included because of their funny 3G frequencies), instead of having to rely on AT&T to carry all the traffic for all those phones.


Stop making sense!
 
2009-09-09 01:05:29 PM  
drop.ndtv.com

The HTC Hero...

th05.deviantart.net
 
2009-09-09 01:05:42 PM  

coolcashiat77: I would check your facts.. Here on Verizon's site, the minimum plan for Smartphone data/voice plane is $99. I believe the iPhone plan starts at $79.99 for 450 minutes with data.


That's incorrect. Baseline unlimited data + 450 minutes for a Verizon Wireless smartphone is $39.99 + $29.99 = $69.98. Unlimited data + unlimited messaging + 450 minutes for a non-smartphone device (such as the enV Touch) is $69.99.
 
2009-09-09 01:06:31 PM  

Mugato:
That's interesting. I have one professor who will only work with Avid, another who will only work with Final Cut. As a former programmer, I know that the Final Cut cat knows a shiatload more than the Avid dude does. So I'm leaning towards Final Cut.


Obviously it surely couldn't hurt to have a good knowledge of both. Most people don't have that option available though.

It can really be a pain in the ass for people when they look for jobs in the industry and certain agencies only want to interview Final Cut editors, others only want AVID editors, others Premiere, etc. A lot of these companies are extremely shortsighted in that approach because the same principles carry over through all of these programs. They would be better off just hiring the editor with more skill and editorial vision, and then just pay for them to take a class or get training for their NLE choice. Instead they might be getting a less competent employee just to save a few bucks up front.

Pixar seems to look at this the right way. I remember checking out their job openings a while back and it basically said something along the lines of "We're looking for people who can demonstrate the ability to tell the story regardless of the software package used to get there. We can teach our software to you."

Makes sense to me.
 
2009-09-09 01:10:40 PM  
Could that constitute a breach of contract with Apple in any way and free them to make deals with other carriers?
 
2009-09-09 01:11:54 PM  

jiggs: Where are they spending all the money they have coming in with the surge of iPhone customers? Should they be allowed to sell a product that is crippled? Isn't this like selling a car then not giving the buyer access to a freeway (if Ford owned the on-ramps)?

That AT&T sucks is just a given at this point. All of the cell carriers suck in the US. Some laws need to changed to allow some competition.


You mean like breaking up Ma Bell companies?
 
2009-09-09 01:12:41 PM  

pureobscure: *uses the bullet-proof BlackBerry for email and couldn't care less about stupid ifart apps and other shiat that keeps the gadget tards entertained*


Word. I write iPhone software for a living. People ask me "why do you have a Blackberry?" and I reply "Because I have shiat to do"
 
2009-09-09 01:16:17 PM  
Having worked for AT&T when they were called Cingular (and make no mistake, it's the same company. They only changed their name because they pissed off enough people as Cingular that the name was becoming unmarketable to the astronomically large number of customers they drove away...what they call "churn") I can tell you their business strategy is a simple one--sell, sell, sell!

Sell, no matter what you can or can't provide. Sell, even if it means tricking or bullying the customer. Sell, until you breathe your last, sell! Everything else, especially the customer, comes second.
 
2009-09-09 01:16:25 PM  
Last I checked AT&T and Verizon are both ridiculously overpriced carriers. People go with them because it's not cool to use Sprint or T-Mobile.

/Sprint user.
//Cheapest plan possible.
///Doesn't like text messaging.
////Will likely give in sooner or later.
 
2009-09-09 01:16:52 PM  

iollow: Funny you would pick the Grateful Dead as an example. They would always allow people to record their concerts and even had special areas where people with equipment could set up.


Funny is right because I believe Arista or one of the other labels is trying to make such bootlegs illegal on the premise they plan to release said concert as a paid-for album at some unspecified point in the future
 
2009-09-09 01:17:50 PM  
Is the AT&T network really that shiatty? I've gotten strong service deep in the back woods of North Carolina and 30 miles from anywhere in the Mojave Desert while Verizonites couldn't get a single bar.

/Cingular/AT&T for five years now and have never once had a network problem
//but don't have an iPhone. Maybe that's what sucks
 
2009-09-09 01:18:53 PM  

Mugato: FeeltheIllinoise: Consider a fully loaded mac pro, some sort of black magic or kona card card and final cut studio 2, you could spend $10,000-$15,000. A comparable Avid system can get up to $90,000.


Learn something new every day. There's also the convenience of Apple products being able to talk to each other with ease. Functionality that you have to jump through hoops for on a PC.

You can say the same thing about Avid. With Avid, the software and hardware are designed by the same company much like Apple. You get overall better stability, one stop shop and one source for tech support. There are many large facilities that have millions invested in avid and their hardware so switching to FCP isn't very viable. There are also plenty of editors that have been using avid for years and thats what they prefer. Neither piece of software is superior, they both work well and do some things better than the other. It comes down to preference of the editor and what you can afford. If anything, it forces both companies to work harder and build a better product every year. For a while, avid was the only game in town.

And as an aside, what's so great about Avid? The basics are pretty much the same as they are with Final Cut but I just don't dig the interface as much. What does Avid do that Final Cut doesn't?

 
2009-09-09 01:19:44 PM  

Mugato: Rapmaster2000: It has some great features and I appreciate the platform architecture, but the inability to send and receive photos to phone #s is rather pathetic.


I think the fact that I can't convert a sound file into a ring tone sucks. It comes from the inability to download an attachment in an email, something I could do with my Razr. I asked one of the geniuses at Best Buy and he shrugged his shoulders and suggested that there might be some software for that. So no, the iPhone isn't perfect by any means but I still like it.

/"sonar" ringtone isn't that bad I suppose
//still wants the CTU ringtone back


Um - it's straightforward to do in iTunes. There's lots of online step-by-step documentation.

/just did it to get GB's "GET OFF MY PHONE!" as a ringtone.
//the lulz when it goes off is great!
 
2009-09-09 01:19:54 PM  
Regarding TFA...

Amen!
 
2009-09-09 01:21:35 PM  

Freakman: Is the AT&T network really that shiatty? I've gotten strong service deep in the back woods of North Carolina and 30 miles from anywhere in the Mojave Desert while Verizonites couldn't get a single bar.

/Cingular/AT&T for five years now and have never once had a network problem
//but don't have an iPhone. Maybe that's what sucks


Perhaps it's just that different carriers have better infrastructure in different areas of the country/world.

However, I find it ironic whenever AT&T or Verizon has no bars in New Jersey since both are headquartered here.
 
2009-09-09 01:23:25 PM  
iPhone owners are pretentious pricks.


//iPhone owner
 
2009-09-09 01:25:35 PM  
Here's the quick way to make a ringtone in iTunes for those of you who don't know how:

1) set iTunes "lossless" format to .m4a
2a) Use a program, such as Audacity, to edit your song to 30 secs;
- or -
2b) Get info on the song and choose its start/end point
3) Right-click the song to "convert to Apple Lossless" format
4) Ctrl-R the song to locate it in Finder/Windows
5) Delete the song from your library, but choose to keep the file (optional)
6) Change file extension to .m4r
7) Re-import
 
2009-09-09 01:25:43 PM  
Apple needs to cut the exclusivity cord and not only open iPhone in the USA to other GSM cellular networks but make a CDMA/Verizon version as well. With the iPhone it is the device and the apps, not the network. Any network will do.
 
2009-09-09 01:31:38 PM  

WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect. Suck it jesus phone users.


Bah ... I had Verizon. Everything that everyone says about AT&T I say about them. I've had rather good customer service from AT&T. I get full signal from AT&T at my house and dropped calls all the time with Verizon in the same location. I also love my iPhone. I'm sorry the Storm just doesn't compare.

I think the fact is that they are all monopolistic and they all suck and YMMV with whatever carrier you chose.
 
2009-09-09 01:33:28 PM  

El Chode: iollow: Funny you would pick the Grateful Dead as an example. They would always allow people to record their concerts and even had special areas where people with equipment could set up.

Funny is right because I believe Arista or one of the other labels is trying to make such bootlegs illegal on the premise they plan to release said concert as a paid-for album at some unspecified point in the future


Who is arista? i can't find much info.
 
2009-09-09 01:38:58 PM  
I think how good the at&t and iphone combination depends a lot on where you are, im a little south of portland, Oregon, and my iphone and at&t have been pretty decent. Yes a rare dropped call, and there was 30 minutes one day where I had no signal. Basically my up time is around 99.99%

One thing though-I made sure to buy my phone from the apple store instead of the local at&t store. I had some issues with my first generation iphone, and getting it replaced was insanely easy with apple. at&t store would argue with people over the same issue, Apple store went "huh let me get you another one...."

I have signal inside every building I have been in, and others havent on other services. However from the comments here its clear my experience is based on where I live, not the average service level.

And as for customer service, for the love of god I have no idea why companies dont value it anymore. Try dealing with xbox live customer service over them overcharging you, and see how it works out. ugh. So far I have been fortunate to not have to deal with at7t's.
 
2009-09-09 01:39:18 PM  

FeeltheIllinoise: Mugato: FeeltheIllinoise: Consider a fully loaded mac pro, some sort of black magic or kona card card and final cut studio 2, you could spend $10,000-$15,000. A comparable Avid system can get up to $90,000.


Learn something new every day. There's also the convenience of Apple products being able to talk to each other with ease. Functionality that you have to jump through hoops for on a PC.

You can say the same thing about Avid. With Avid, the software and hardware are designed by the same company much like Apple. You get overall better stability, one stop shop and one source for tech support. There are many large facilities that have millions invested in avid and their hardware so switching to FCP isn't very viable. There are also plenty of editors that have been using avid for years and thats what they prefer. Neither piece of software is superior, they both work well and do some things better than the other. It comes down to preference of the editor and what you can afford. If anything, it forces both companies to work harder and build a better product every year. For a while, avid was the only game in town.

And as an aside, what's so great about Avid? The basics are pretty much the same as they are with Final Cut but I just don't dig the interface as much. What does Avid do that Final Cut doesn't?


Basically Avid got to the party before everyone else did. It has a greater market share (though it's fading fast). I HAVE to use AVID at work, I use FCP at home. Why? FCP is more efficient, it's easier to use (IE it allows a user to decide how they want to edit. You can edit via keystrokes, mouse, drag and drop, or a combination thereof). Avid, you primarily edit via keyboard combinations that take forever to learn. FCP also allows you to "hide" video layers, makes effects work a heck of a lot simpler, and doesn't require special hardware. (It's also $50,000+ cheaper..)

Avid's somewhat of a dying breed. In fact, they didn't even show at NAB last year.

To be fair, I've used Premiere here and there and wasn't too impressed and Vegas is a fun PC editing system if you're just doing basic stuff.
 
2009-09-09 01:39:27 PM  

tweekster: Who is arista? i can't find much info.


Arista records? The wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Entertainment?
 
2009-09-09 01:39:48 PM  

El Chode: Here's the quick way to make a ringtone in iTunes for those of you who don't know how:


What? There's no app for that?
 
2009-09-09 01:41:34 PM  

El Chode: tweekster: Who is arista? i can't find much info.

Arista records? The wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Entertainment?


How would that matter to the grateful dead or other bands that allow and encourage taping of their shows?
 
2009-09-09 01:41:44 PM  

slykens1: ATT's 3G network is WCDMA/HSPA. It's combined voice and data and allows simultaneous voice and data. It's just packets. High data use affects voice packets because they're all fighting for the same bandwidth. (Even though voice has priority in theory)

Verizon's 3G data network is EVDO (Evolution Data Only) which as the name implies is data only. High data use here only affects other data users, not voice users.


I don't understand why WCDMA/HSPA networks come with stupid phones. The Iphone is neat, but its services are still integrated at a cave man level.

To me, the MINIMUM acceptable service for an advanced phone on a combined network would be two way videophone with simultaneous streaming, file transfer, and chat text.

Sort of like Skype has done since 2004.
 
2009-09-09 01:43:23 PM  

Greywar: I think how good the at&t and iphone combination depends a lot on where you are


This. That. Say it slowly and in unison everyone.

In the Northeast I am using a G1 on AT&T, vs everyone in my family who has Verizon. Up here, AT&T has superior coverage and Verizon simply blows. I've never dropped a call and have coverage everywhere I go.

//Location. Location. Location.
 
2009-09-09 01:44:21 PM  
MMS is a kludge wrapped in a kludge on top of another kludge, and may possibly be the WORST way to transfer arbitrary data over the existing mobile phone infrastructure.

Hopefully AT&T's continuing refusal to support MMS messaging on the iPhone will be the first step towards killing the service altogether.
 
2009-09-09 01:44:28 PM  

FlashHarry: blame the customer. great plan.

i love my iphone, but i farking hate AT&T. as soon as another carrier becomes available, i and legions of iphone users will jump ship.


This. AT&T is just... awful. Anytime I have to call their customer service I want to shoot myself in the face. I used to work in a customer service job on the phones and I can't believe how stupid some of these people are!
 
2009-09-09 01:46:04 PM  

dognose4: ""Overnight we're seeing a radical shift in how people are using their phones"

Really, overnight? The thing has been out for over 2 years, and within months of it's release, most in the know knew it was going to be a hit. 10 million units later, it's an overnight shift?


I would argue that the unlimited data plan was much more of a hit than the phone. The app store is more a hit than the phone. You can't even use a competing web browser or set an mp3 as the ring tone.
 
2009-09-09 01:50:16 PM  

tweekster: How would that matter to the grateful dead or other bands that allow and encourage taping of their shows?


Many of them assign the rights to their music, or at least the publishing rights, to the label. Now some labels, like ATO, permit unlimited taping and show-trading so long as they're not soundboard quality. Some of the majors don't understand this concept and as a result they end up biting the hand that feeds.

If I remember correctly, part of the legal argument surrounding this was whether Jerry's comment that "the music belongs to the fans" is an implied license to this end.
 
2009-09-09 01:50:55 PM  

Hiro's Protagonist: or set an mp3 as the ring tone.


Actually, on mobile17.com you can... it's one of the few that Apple hasn't caught word of and shut down. They somehow turn your mp3s into the file that Apple has their music on. I'm not sure how the technical stuff works, but it's nice not having to pay for ringtones from songs I've already bought.... or stole. haha
 
2009-09-09 01:51:55 PM  

floor9: WTF Indeed: Verizon. Yeah the phones suck, but I can make a call in the middle of farking nowhere and have it connect.

Sitting here with my enV Touch showing full service in my cube, while the on-call AT&T phone has to reside on the windowsill because it gets no service in my building.

Sweet.


How are you liking that EnV Touch? I'm 99% on it being my next phone sometime within the next few months. It will be my 3rd LG phone, and I've had zero problems with those phones or the VZW service.
 
2009-09-09 01:54:13 PM  

vegasj: My original comment still stands for the tethering. AT&T charges now for users to tether other phones, a jailbroken phone can tether... so why the delay?


They don't charge to tether any more. I've been tethering my ATT Tilt via bluetooth PAN for 6 months. I went to upgrade my plan to allow for it and they said the PDA plan was the highest and there is no tethering option. I use it to stream Pandora in the car (as well as have laptop internet connectivity) and no one from ATT has questioned my usage.
 
2009-09-09 01:54:57 PM  
audiko.net

In case anyone is looking for ringtones or would like to create their own. You can thank me later.
 
2009-09-09 01:55:38 PM  
This isn't an iPhone problem. It's an AT&T problem.

Classic Amerikkkan Korporation: Cut all the exclusivity deals you can. Charge huge for basic services. And never invest in infrastructure or product quality unless forced.

And don't get me started on DSL services. Many telecomm operators advertise, sell and bill your for bandwidth speeds THEY KNOW they can't deliver to your area. Their tech people will always blame it on your anti-virus program.

Korporat fraud: It's what happens with deregulation and weak government oversight.
 
2009-09-09 02:01:30 PM  
See, this is why I own not one Apple product anymore.

- Proprietary hardware and software
- Apple can decide not to let you use an important app
- Have to deal with idiotic companies

I personally have a Razr V3xx (AT&T yes), but plan to leave them when Sprint finally rolls out 4G, if it's any good (ie speeds and no caps like my DSL). I love the fact I can MAKE my own ringtones easily for the Razr, and have the "Red Phone" ring from In Like Flint on it.

/obscure?
//All data 3G sucks, due to the download cap
 
2009-09-09 02:01:43 PM  

FeedTheCollapse: foo monkey: The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.

as someone who works for Verizon Wireless, this seems to be about the standard pricing for Blackberry/PDA data plans. Unless you're factoring in other things...


Driedsponge: I would love to see the iPhone on Verizon's network.
I would hate to see the monthly bill for the iphone on Verizon's network.

You are looking at a $150 per month bill MINIMUM after all the fees and crap Verizon will make you add in.

And Verizon wouldn't disable tethering completely. They'd just disable it unless you add another $30 a month to your bill to enable it.

You want the apps store? That will be another $5 a month just to access it.

so you want everything, but don't want to pay for it. Cool.


I would start listing the reports of how much the wireless telco's are raping cell phone users, but I don't think fark lets us make posts that large.

What I want is a network that works as advertised, with a plan that isn't based on making 1,000-2,000% profit margins (I'm looking at you, SMS), and doesn't nickel-and-dime everything I already paid for by buying the phone.

I have an LG Chocolate (VX8550). The phone has bluetooth capability, it has music capability, and on any other network, I'd be able to access them without paying more....not on verizon though. Instead, bluetooth is completely disabled for file sharing, and I'd have to purchase a cd and cable to get music onto it.

Why am I required to pay for a data plan for a phone, and pay for ANOTHER Data plan for a modem for my laptop? Why not just allow me to pay for ONE data plan and be able to use it on my phone, or tether it to my pc using the options that I already purchased with my phone?

The ONLY reason I still have Verizon is because there service is the only service that is even close to reliable in my area. Every other aspect of Verizon Wireless' service and products sucks. I've compared plans across a few carriers and Verizon is consistently the highest charging carrier out of all of them for pretty much every plan they have. They are also the most restrictive in terms of what I can and can't do with the hardware I purchased.

tl,dr; I want to be able to use what I already pay for.
 
2009-09-09 02:04:26 PM  
This really is not news or even an issue - Apple customers are used to terrible customer service. They are even willing to make appointments and wait in long lines to have someone at the "'Genius' Bar" tell them that they are farked. The iPod should come with a small vial of Vaseline - but Applephile don't need it, they like it rough.

/I love the iProduct spoof ad
//Homer Simpson said it best, "It's funny because it's true!"
 
2009-09-09 02:07:10 PM  

gorgor: I find you lack of faith disturbing
http://tinyurl.com/nj7fat
(copy and paste)


does anyone ever wonder what could be disturbing to gorgor? I'm pretty sure most of us here on Fark would have to say we are all on the receiving side of disturbing from gorgor.
 
2009-09-09 02:11:00 PM  

Mugato: Learn something new every day. There's also the convenience of Apple products being able to talk to each other with ease. Functionality that you have to jump through hoops for on a PC.


Jesus, when are you from, 1988 or something?
 
2009-09-09 02:14:40 PM  
I have been using the Rogers Dream (T-Mobile G1) for about a month now. Fantastic! I've "rooted" it and installed/modified various ROM's. This basically allows me to do whatever I want to with the phone. I know the carriers are different however the device itself should really be looked into by anyone who is frustrated with the iPhone.
 
2009-09-09 02:16:43 PM  

ssssmashing: This really is not news or even an issue - Apple customers are used to terrible customer service. They are even willing to make appointments and wait in long lines to have someone at the "'Genius' Bar" tell them that they are farked. The iPod should come with a small vial of Vaseline - but Applephile don't need it, they like it rough.


At least we don't have to call "Dell Support" to PAY someone to tell us we're farked. I think the genius bar is a really great perk to my Mac. They have helped me learn stuff I didn't know about it. Don't complain when you're not even a customer. I have had nothing but great customer service by Apple.
 
2009-09-09 02:17:47 PM  

ssssmashing: This really is not news or even an issue - Apple customers are used to terrible customer service. They are even willing to make appointments and wait in long lines to have someone at the "'Genius' Bar" tell them that they are farked. The iPod should come with a small vial of Vaseline - but Applephile don't need it, they like it rough.

/I love the iProduct spoof ad
//Homer Simpson said it best, "It's funny because it's true!"


Seriously? Apple's customer service is some of the best out there.

You can easily rip them for a lot of other stuff, but it's hard to complain about their customer service.
 
2009-09-09 02:18:30 PM  

foo monkey: The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.


I'm paying $50 total on T-Mo. $20 of which is the dataplan.
And I've had MMS and tethering capability on the iPhone for quite a long time. No speed issues to complain of either.
 
2009-09-09 02:21:06 PM  

atlas spanked: his isn't an iPhone problem. It's an AT&T problem.

Classic Amerikkkan Korporation: Cut all the exclusivity deals you can. Charge huge for basic services. And never invest in infrastructure or product quality unless forced.


Apple got the deal it wanted for this phone. It fits their business model(control of everything at the expense of potential sales) and, to say it again, they wanted it!
 
2009-09-09 02:24:17 PM  

ElVee: I've been a WinMo fanboi for a long freaking time. Microsoft rules, Apple drools. So when my beloved HTC Tilt went tits-up at the beginning of this month, I grieved mightily. I loved that phone.

One of my long-haired, ultra-liberal, patchouli-smelling hippy friends somehow talked me into giving the iPhone a whirl. I usually ignore anything that godless commie has to say, too.

Pandora on iPhone has made me a believer. I see the error of my ways. My data usage has also gone through the freakin roof.


Pandora on my Blackberry, paid for by my employer, on Verizon's network, is much better.
 
2009-09-09 02:29:55 PM  
The major reason for Mac hate online are the Mac vs. PC commercials.

The PC guy (Hodgmann) is really funny. Many internetty people see them as him, even with his flaws.

They stepped it up with the newest commercial (about the top end PC). The voice they used?

Brock Sampson. Seriously.

Who wouldn't want to be a PC? but no, the lady goes for the douche, and the hate spreads..
 
2009-09-09 02:30:28 PM  

dchurch0: ElVee: I've been a WinMo fanboi for a long freaking time. Microsoft rules, Apple drools. So when my beloved HTC Tilt went tits-up at the beginning of this month, I grieved mightily. I loved that phone.

One of my long-haired, ultra-liberal, patchouli-smelling hippy friends somehow talked me into giving the iPhone a whirl. I usually ignore anything that godless commie has to say, too.

Pandora on iPhone has made me a believer. I see the error of my ways. My data usage has also gone through the freakin roof.

Pandora on my Blackberry, paid for by my employer, on Verizon's network, is much better.


And Pandora is on winmo as well. Also, XM as well
 
2009-09-09 02:33:59 PM  

KyngNothing: foo monkey: jasonmicron: The simple solution would be to raise the price of the data plans to discourage new customers and reduce the bandwidth usage.


The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.

Really? The cheapest Verizon "smartphone" plan (fewest minutes + unlimited data) is $80 /month (for 450 minutes), Sprint is $70/month (450 minutes), T-Mobile is $80/month (300 minutes), and AT&T is $70/month (450 minutes)...

I'm not seeing it...


$30 is just the data portion.

Mine and my wife's smartphones on AT&T only cost $15 extra per month for data. $10 per month for unlimited family texting, for 4 Phones etc... we also have the free landline calling for an extra $5. That means I can call any AT&T landline as though it were another AT&T cell phone for no lost minutes. With rollover, landline calling and such I've never gone over on my minutes in years...literally. 1500 minutes shared. 19,000 texts and counting many mms pics sent etc...

$165 per month for all 4 phones.
 
2009-09-09 02:41:02 PM  

humanshrapnel: How are you liking that EnV Touch? I'm 99% on it being my next phone sometime within the next few months. It will be my 3rd LG phone, and I've had zero problems with those phones or the VZW service.


I like it. My only complaint is the lack of an available Twitter app. However, Twitter & Verizon seem to have mended their text-blocking ways, as texts are trickling through, so I can get by with SMS. Otherwise I would say it's the best non-smartphone PDA I've seen in a long, long time.

Has a nice, sturdy, metallic feel to it, too.
 
2009-09-09 02:54:59 PM  
chuckwarnockblog.files.wordpress.com


WHERES YOUR IPHONE GOD NOW???
 
2009-09-09 03:03:05 PM  

ursomniac: Um - it's straightforward to do in iTunes. There's lots of online step-by-step documentation.


Yeah but it said I didn't have the latest version of iTunes and was a real biatch about upgrading.
 
2009-09-09 03:03:49 PM  

siromega:
Really? The MBPs are as affordable as they have ever been and you're griping about the price? Three years ago I bought a white MB and it cost me $1500 after apple care and tax. I can get a much better product now (13" MBP) for the same price.


And my daughter just bought a 3Gh Toshiba laptop for $450.
 
2009-09-09 03:03:52 PM  

Molavian: Mugato: Learn something new every day. There's also the convenience of Apple products being able to talk to each other with ease. Functionality that you have to jump through hoops for on a PC.

Jesus, when are you from, 1988 or something?


You're saying that connectivity is as easy on a PC?
 
2009-09-09 03:12:10 PM  
I knew there would be issues when I saw the AT&T CEO pull out those note cards during the unveiling.
 
2009-09-09 03:14:35 PM  
Mugato: You're saying that connectivity is as easy on a PC?

True story:

I was giving a demo at a tech meetup a while back. The guy I was following had delivered his presentation on a Windows machine but couldn't get it on the free wifi in the building. So he had to dig around in his bag to find the copy of the presentation he had on a flash drive

I got up, clicked the Airport menu and selected the network and was on the Internet, ready to present. He asked "Is it really that easy for a Mac to select a wireless network?"

\Windows is only marginally better than Linux at WiFi
\\And that's just because Windows has compatible drivers
\\\Waits for "Cool story bro" pics
 
2009-09-09 03:18:10 PM  
Don't you love when corporations become complacent? But the free market will save us all! *facepalm*

/AT&T should just have their FCC licenses revoked, seriously
 
Jha
2009-09-09 03:18:20 PM  
Having a friend that works as a AT&T network engineer, he says that the iPhones cram up the networks the most due to how inefficiently they send data over the network. It's a gay phone, what'ya expect?
 
2009-09-09 03:20:13 PM  
Mugato: You're saying that connectivity is as easy on a PC?

A few weeks back I tried to add my laptop running Vista onto a friends network at home, where everything is XP. You'd think I'd just plug in, map the network drives, and download what I was looking to download. Yeah, not so much.
 
2009-09-09 03:22:17 PM  

RedThree: The major reason for Mac hate online are the Mac vs. PC commercials.

The PC guy (Hodgmann) is really funny. Many internetty people see them as him, even with his flaws.

They stepped it up with the newest commercial (about the top end PC). The voice they used?

Brock Sampson. Seriously.

Who wouldn't want to be a PC? but no, the lady goes for the douche, and the hate spreads..


Yeah, but The Douche says you talk like a fag and your shiat's all retarded.

/Kidding - just wanted to shoehorn an Idiocracy quote in.
//For the enV Touch folks - looking at that myself, you like?
 
2009-09-09 03:27:51 PM  

bhcompy: And Pandora is on winmo as well.


But only for supported devices, correct? I can't get it on the ATT Tilt (HTC Kaiser).
 
2009-09-09 03:43:20 PM  

KyngNothing: foo monkey: jasonmicron: The simple solution would be to raise the price of the data plans to discourage new customers and reduce the bandwidth usage.


The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.

Really? The cheapest Verizon "smartphone" plan (fewest minutes + unlimited data) is $80 /month (for 450 minutes), Sprint is $70/month (450 minutes), T-Mobile is $80/month (300 minutes), and AT&T is $70/month (450 minutes)...

I'm not seeing it...


The $30 is *only* the data part. Add in the $70 you've pointed out and you're at $100/mo for an iPhone.
 
2009-09-09 03:53:08 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Mugato: You're saying that connectivity is as easy on a PC?

A few weeks back I tried to add my laptop running Vista onto a friends network at home, where everything is XP. You'd think I'd just plug in, map the network drives, and download what I was looking to download. Yeah, not so much.


Actually, Windows (at least XP) is a bit too lax with how it shares its files. There is a default C-drive share, which is not visible, but accessible. Although, you need to know a username and password. But then again, since for many Administrator/ works just fine...

To be fair, you couldn't do that on a Mac either. You need to specifically enable file sharing and give access to the shared location before access can occur.

If it wasn't this way, any kid with his dad's laptop could get in your files when you're both using the airport WiFi...
 
2009-09-09 03:53:58 PM  

Mugato:
And as an aside, what's so great about Avid?


Maybe Avid "Just Works"?
 
2009-09-09 03:57:02 PM  
I find it funny that Mac guys are complaining that Avid costs a lot of money, uses expensive hardware, etc. And then go on to say you can do the same thing (possibly better) with something less expensive.
 
2009-09-09 03:57:55 PM  

Rapmaster2000: johnsmith99: You should try using a Mac sometime. Believe, you'll never go back.

I've used a MacBook Pro for the last 3.5 years. On my next laptop, I'm going back to Windows. The Mac is way overpriced for what you get. The interface is nice, but the only real advantage I enjoy is the ability to use UNIX from the terminal.


name another 13" laptop that
a) has a high quality IPS screen
b) has the build quality of
c) has the same or faster GPU to a 9400m
d) 7 hours of battery life without some gross extruding battery pack.
for 1099 EDU pricing.

Seriously, you might avert me actually buying a 13" MBP if there's a better deal (which there isn't that i've seen)
 
2009-09-09 04:00:46 PM  

thrasherrr: To me, the MINIMUM acceptable service for an advanced phone on a combined network would be two way videophone with simultaneous streaming, file transfer, and chat text.


There are a few devices which do this on 3G networks and have been available across the pond for a few years. I don't think they're all that popular. I know ATT advertised video share for awhile but I don't think it went much of anywhere. Most people will snap a pic and email/MMS it then call the person and ask what they think about it.

The iPhone in 3G mode or 2G + Wifi can do simultaneous voice and data quite easily. Then it's a matter of switching between apps whilst the phone runs in the background.

You mention Skype doing it since 2004, well, there's plenty of apps that did it long before Skype. Having the bandwidth to do it on a mobile device with latency that isn't outrageous and the processor power to handle it is a much more recent development.
 
2009-09-09 04:04:33 PM  

homeschooled:
At least we don't have to call "Dell Support" to PAY someone to tell us we're farked. I think the genius bar is a really great perk to my Mac. They have helped me learn stuff I didn't know about it. Don't complain when you're not even a customer. I have had nothing but great customer service by Apple.


Hmmm... I took my son's MBP to the Apple store to get it fixed. Their repair plan was simple $285 to look at it and fix whatever is wrong with it. $55 extra if you want the hard drive backed up first. For $340 they fix whatever is wrong. Even if the problem is a loose wire or $10 part.

When I told them that I though this was ridiculous, the response was "BUT if you need a new motherboard, that would cost $600! you'd save a lot of money!

Is it just me, or is this a stupid "plan"?

And all of the local computer repair shops won't touch an Apple.

Of course, I should have known that Apple was full of shait when my son's MBP cost $900 RECONDITIONED.

/I don't just hate Apple because it's fashionable.
// I've hated them since the IIc.
 
2009-09-09 04:12:53 PM  
What an iPhone screen may look like:

img198.imageshack.us
 
2009-09-09 04:13:26 PM  

foo monkey:
The $30 is *only* the data part. Add in the $70 you've pointed out and you're at $100/mo for an iPhone.


No, the data was included in that figure. The voice plan is $40 and the unlimited data is $30.

$70.
 
2009-09-09 04:13:44 PM  
Why are non-Apple users so jealous?
 
2009-09-09 04:15:38 PM  

foo monkey: KyngNothing: foo monkey: jasonmicron: The simple solution would be to raise the price of the data plans to discourage new customers and reduce the bandwidth usage.


The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.

Really? The cheapest Verizon "smartphone" plan (fewest minutes + unlimited data) is $80 /month (for 450 minutes), Sprint is $70/month (450 minutes), T-Mobile is $80/month (300 minutes), and AT&T is $70/month (450 minutes)...

I'm not seeing it...

The $30 is *only* the data part. Add in the $70 you've pointed out and you're at $100/mo for an iPhone.


Maybe I wasn't clear, all of those prices were for the lowest # of minutes and unlimited data I could find by selecting a generic smartphone...

I only added the number of minutes because T-mobile's was lower than everyone else's
 
2009-09-09 04:21:30 PM  

floor9: "There are simply too many users using data-intensive applications," Donovan said. "Users expecting to just pick up their phone and use 3G data whenever they want are being unreasonable."

I don't seem to have this "network problem" of which you speak over here on Verizon.


I'm going to say BRAVO to floor9's troll. Nowhere in the linked article or the two it links is the AT&T CEO quoted as saying this. Excellent work, sir.
 
2009-09-09 04:33:32 PM  
Not an iPhone related comment but...more to the constant biatching about AT&T.

Just from my own personal experience...I got my first cell phone in college back in 2001 with Sprint. It was crap...few options, few peak time minutes, not too bad price wise. The service was horrible...constantly dropped calls. Moved over to T-Mobile a few years later. Better service, fewer dropped calls, more minutes for the money. I lived near the college campus and surprise, every Saturday when there was a home game...I couldn't make any calls...their towers were just overloaded.

Years after that, I switch to Cingular, partly because of the better preferred employer discount deal through work. Even though shortly afterward they were bought out by AT&T, I have to say thus far this is the best I've had. Same price, way more minutes, more rollover minutes than I could ever use, and this is the important part, very very very few dropped calls or missed messages. I'm pretty satisfied with AT&T...then again I've never tried Verizon, and I'm sure T-Mobile has gotten better since I left.

Oh well...kind of a waste to be with AT&T...I don't even have an iPhone :P
 
2009-09-09 04:38:11 PM  

finnished: I find it funny that Mac guys are complaining that Avid costs a lot of money, uses expensive hardware, etc. And then go on to say you can do the same thing (possibly better) with something less expensive.



I've found that Final Cut works a lot better but I don't pretend to be an expert.
 
2009-09-09 04:40:15 PM  

twfeline: Why are non-Apple users so jealous?


They're just poor.

They can't afford a $1500 desktop or a $400 phone.
 
2009-09-09 04:40:27 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: foo monkey:
The $30 is *only* the data part. Add in the $70 you've pointed out and you're at $100/mo for an iPhone.

No, the data was included in that figure. The voice plan is $40 and the unlimited data is $30.

$70.


Except no text messaging, add in another 20
 
2009-09-09 04:57:45 PM  

Driedsponge: FeedTheCollapse: foo monkey: The mandatory iPhone data plan is $30/month, which is much more than other carriers charge for comparable smartphones.

as someone who works for Verizon Wireless, this seems to be about the standard pricing for Blackberry/PDA data plans. Unless you're factoring in other things...


Driedsponge: I would love to see the iPhone on Verizon's network.
I would hate to see the monthly bill for the iphone on Verizon's network.

You are looking at a $150 per month bill MINIMUM after all the fees and crap Verizon will make you add in.

And Verizon wouldn't disable tethering completely. They'd just disable it unless you add another $30 a month to your bill to enable it.

You want the apps store? That will be another $5 a month just to access it.

so you want everything, but don't want to pay for it. Cool.

I would start listing the reports of how much the wireless telco's are raping cell phone users, but I don't think fark lets us make posts that large.

What I want is a network that works as advertised, with a plan that isn't based on making 1,000-2,000% profit margins (I'm looking at you, SMS), and doesn't nickel-and-dime everything I already paid for by buying the phone.

I have an LG Chocolate (VX8550). The phone has bluetooth capability, it has music capability, and on any other network, I'd be able to access them without paying more....not on verizon though. Instead, bluetooth is completely disabled for file sharing, and I'd have to purchase a cd and cable to get music onto it.

Why am I required to pay for a data plan for a phone, and pay for ANOTHER Data plan for a modem for my laptop? Why not just allow me to pay for ONE data plan and be able to use it on my phone, or tether it to my pc using the options that I already purchased with my phone?

The ONLY reason I still have Verizon is because there service is the only service that is even close to reliable in my area. Every other aspect of Verizon Wireless' service and products sucks. I've compared plans across a few carriers and Verizon is consistently the highest charging carrier out of all of them for pretty much every plan they have. They are also the most restrictive in terms of what I can and can't do with the hardware I purchased.

tl,dr; I want to be able to use what I already pay for.


MIFI will set you free.
 
2009-09-09 05:00:30 PM  
 
2009-09-09 05:31:56 PM  
FTFA: In fact, AT&T is the No. 1 political contributor in the nation, spending an incredible $43.5 million since 1989 to buy influence in government. AT&T complains that it doesn't have the money to service its iPhone monopoly, while at the same time spending more than every other company on currying favor in Washington. That doesn't make sense.

Sure it makes sense: Big businesses use the government to get their way. They only care about the bottom line. They don't want to help consumers. They just want your money. That's why I try to avoid buying things from any big corporation. Of course, it's hard to get high tech stuff from small companies. But, you can choose the least of the the evils. Vote with your dollars!
 
2009-09-09 05:34:50 PM  

The Icelander: Mugato: You're saying that connectivity is as easy on a PC?

True story:

I was giving a demo at a tech meetup a while back. The guy I was following had delivered his presentation on a Windows machine but couldn't get it on the free wifi in the building. So he had to dig around in his bag to find the copy of the presentation he had on a flash drive

I got up, clicked the Airport menu and selected the network and was on the Internet, ready to present. He asked "Is it really that easy for a Mac to select a wireless network?"

\Windows is only marginally better than Linux at WiFi
\\And that's just because Windows has compatible drivers
\\\Waits for "Cool story bro" pics


That's because you knew what to do. It doesn't matter how simple something is if the person trying to do it is clueless. You know how I connect to an open access point in windows? I click the wireless icon, click "show available networks", pick an unsecured network, and click connect. It's right there in plain frickin' English but people don't even attempt to parse it. So Apple's reduced that by one click by showing the available networks in the drop-down menu instead of making you click on a "show networks" label. If that's the difference between someone being able to give a successful presentation and standing there like a tool, that person has no business giving presentations in the field.

This sounds more like a user group than a business thing but, still, know your equipment. Understand how it works. If I'm there to do some social networking and I see that, I'm not likely to recommend that guy for any jobs I know about.

Sorry, is it obvious that I've been dealing with a lot of these types this week? :)
 
2009-09-09 06:04:41 PM  
these companies just turned down billions of dollars in federal money to expand networks and increase internet coverage and speed across the country. the response they gave congress was no thanks, we have plenty of cash already to make our networks super duper awesome. then literally a month later they come out and say OMFG we told our customers a bunch of lies so lets blame them for the problem for using their products in a manor we told them they could. i would say this is terrible but it's not as terrible as when they took billions and billions of dollars from the feds in the 1990s to expand networks and increase internet coverage and speed across the country and instead just kept the money and did jack shiat. there was supposedly a federal investigation into where the money went and why people still have to use dial up when we've already given them a farkload of money and apparently they just snorted it. fark these dicks, fark the major internet service providers, fark congress for not doing anything about and god farking bless america.

Verizon, AT&T May Tell U.S. to Keep $7.2 Billion Stimulus Money

/google has failed me and i can't find an article i read about comcast and other ISPs taking tons of federal money then doing nothing with it
//kind of like palin and her bridge to nowhere
///we're not gonna build anything but we'll still hold onto that cash for you
 
2009-09-09 06:17:50 PM  
iansouter.com
 
2009-09-09 06:52:30 PM  

jtown: You know how I connect to an open access point in windows? I click the wireless icon, click "show available networks", pick an unsecured network, and click connect. It's right there in plain frickin' English but people don't even attempt to parse it.


Well that, or they're using a wireless solution that doesn't use Windows-sourced connection management like you're implying they all do.

Some cards include their own connection software that offers advantages (e.g. compatibility), at the trade off of usually having a more obtuse user interface.

Granted 90% of the time I just disabled that crap and went with Windows because we gave up trying to secure the network for compatibility reasons. We stuffed the access points into a private network and forced employees to VPN through the firewall in order to get anywhere. And if you're not an employee? Hope you enjoy probing firewalls, because that's all you got to do.
 
2009-09-09 07:40:08 PM  
Been using data heavily on Sprint for years because it was the one carrier with fast, cheap, unlimited data. When all others wanted $30-45/month for unlimited data on a Palm or PocketPC, Sprint was $15. Even now I have more minutes than I know what to do with, unlimited data, unlimited text, unlimited use of a commercial turn-by-turn nav program on par with the $10/month Tomtom on iPhone but with actual text to speech on street names. I pay something like $60 while I would have to pay around $100 to get that on iPhone/ATT.

I get to keep my real keyboard and don't need to jab at a screen. I have seamless multitasking, streaming media, sync across all my sources of contacts, calendar, email, etc. web, nav, music, a few games, and all I really give up are 3d games. I didn't buy a phone to act as a handheld gaming platform so that doesn't bother me much.

My service is excellent in the city and when I go far out into the boondocks where Verizon has superior coverage, I roam for free with all the rest of the Sprint customers.

Life is good.
 
2009-09-09 08:33:03 PM  

floor9: Barakku: People using common features on a very expensive phone with an expensive plan? Unreasonable!

Unbelievable. Why don't customers take some personal responsibility? Just because they're on a $90 plan doesn't mean they can go sending picture mail whenever they feel like!


also watching and uploading videos with youtube.
 
2009-09-09 09:06:22 PM  
I love my Palm Pre. Does what iphone does plus multitasks. $89 Unlimited data and texts and 900 minutes. I can email and mms photos.
 
2009-09-09 09:10:33 PM  

Brooklyn Irish Mets Fan: Fast, retarded on-screen keyboard optional, runs on a mobile linux os, has every app the other phones do.

I hear people complain about T-Mobile all the time, bu I always have service


THIS ... love my G1.

If you want the iPhone form factor and retard-only keybaord, the G2 is now out in the US under the name "MyTouch".

T-Mobile isn't perfect, but I get a solid 1.9Mbps on 3G in all major metros, and I pay $90/month for unlimited everything, c.f. $169 for the same on AT&T. I only switched to them because they were the first major carrier to roll GSM out in Texas, when they were still called Voicestream.

Not sure what's "wierd" about the T-mobile 3G frequencies, my G1 works with 3G on multiple carriers all over Europe (though it's too scary to use it with a US SIM card and obscene roaming fees). Usually it's the US that is out of step with the rest of the planet.

If you have any shread doubt that it's the network, how about an
iPhone plans with MMS support and unlimited data from $47 a month including tax
... the punchline is that O2 is the old Cellnet network built by BT, formerly the UK's nearest answer to AT&T in monopolism :-)


/If any iPhone users would like a phone with MMS support, I have a battered old first gen. Motorola RAZR in the kitchen drawer that's unlocked, just pay shipping :-)
 
2009-09-09 09:48:15 PM  
1. We can't meet the capacity of our own users.
2. We charge more than other companies.
3. We let the NSA wiretap our customers without getting a warrant.

Yeah, that sounds like a great company! Good work guys.
 
2009-09-09 10:15:07 PM  
Has anyone used an IPod Touch to do VOIP with WiFi? The great thing about that would be you'd have a great excuse for not being able to answer your phone...

I tried to order a phone on the ATT website today. The website was crashed. How much faith do you have that a data company can't keep their website running. I wanted to email them the error code but you can't email them unless you login first... which you can't do when it's crashed.

I'm going to go read Catch-22 now...
 
2009-09-09 10:28:33 PM  
So, iphone wielding hipsters have destroyed AT&T's network - I know, because I had an AT&T 3G phone before there was an iphone 3G. It used to be a speedy wireless utopia. Now, it's shiate. You people have ruined my perfectly good network by reading FML and sending gigs of pointless tripe.

And you're clamoring to ruin OTHER carriers as well?

Stay put, I say.

The funniest thing in the world to me is people that have been griping about AT&T for years and griping about MMS and griping about tethering, and still go out and buy the latest and greatest iCrap every 8-12 months without fail. I find it hard to have sympathy for buying a product with a known shortcoming and then complaining about it. The simple answer is don't buy it. You will live. It's okay.
 
2009-09-09 10:29:01 PM  
For pretty much everyone here who claims that the iPhone gets terrible signals, you have to keep in mind that getting a signal is more dependent on what carriers have towers in your area. It varies from place to place which one has more towers around and hence who can get a better signal.

I've gone home to rural Maine and found my iPhone gets as good as, if not a better signal than my last two phones (both AT&T, so its comparing apples to apples, no pun intended). I know its just anecdotal, but you can't say that the iPhone gets terrible reception when you are comparing to someone with a Verizon/Sprint/TMobile/etc phone. Then its just due to the network, which is an entirely different argument than that the iPhone itself gets inferior reception in the same location.

Furthermore, everyone has their own reasons for liking one carrier over another. Personally, I had a bad experience with Verizon, and don't care for them now. I'm sure there are many others the same as me. There are also plenty of people out there who have had bad experiences with AT&T and like their current carriers. The idiots are the ones who can't stand AT&T but just have to have the iPhone so go with them anyways. Just get a Blackberry on your carrier of choice, or any of the new touchscreen smartphones that keep coming out. Eventually the iPhone will be available on other carriers, but until it is, you have to either suck it up or leave.
 
2009-09-09 10:32:39 PM  

james_bong: For pretty much everyone here who claims that the iPhone gets terrible signals, you have to keep in mind that getting a signal is more dependent on what carriers have towers in your area. It varies from place to place which one has more towers around and hence who can get a better signal.


I took an iphone 3gs from work, set it next to my 3G AT&T Motorola Q9h on my table at home.

iphone = no bars, sometimes 1
q9 = 4 (full) bars, consistently.

This was pretty much consistently repeated around the house.

Apple knows how to make flashy UIs that make everyone swoon, but they don't know shiat about cellular.
 
2009-09-09 10:36:03 PM  

ParaHandy:
Not sure what's "wierd" about the T-mobile 3G frequencies, my G1 works with 3G on multiple carriers all over Europe (though it's too scary to use it with a US SIM card and obscene roaming fees). Usually it's the US that is out of step with the rest of the planet.


T-Mobile 3G runs on 1700Mhz. Most phones don't support this, including the iPhone. If you unlock your iphone and take it to T-Mobile, you are limited to EDGE/2G.

AT&T runs on the 'normal' US 3G bands of 850/1900Mhz

The rest of the world runs on 2100Mhz.

Your G1 works everywhere because in the US it's on 1700, and elsewhere it's on 2100, and it supports both. You won't find hardly any phones from another carrier anywhere in the world that support 1700Mhz.

(But almost all phones these days are quad band GSM, so the EDGE data should work anywhere in the world)
 
2009-09-09 10:59:47 PM  
Terribly late to the thread, but I wanted to comment.

I bought an iPhone 2 months ago. I got robbed and Apple tried to charge me $600 for a new one. Needless to say, I don't have an iPhone and I'm never buying an Apple product again. What a complete ripoff!
 
2009-09-10 12:26:22 AM  
actually, Tmobile uses 850/900/1800/1900 GSM/EDGE plus 1700/2100 3G.

They did this for one specific reason: the ability to have heavy data usage and still hold a signal for talking. Their software determines what your phone is currently using and then allocates the usage to dedicated voice/data frequencies to compensate.

ahhh...stupid ATT&T...i hope the dumb is burning them.

Why would you spend all that money converting to 3G and NOT open up additional frequencies? What did they think would happen?

Thats like selling a shiat ton more automobiles, but not widening the roads.
 
2009-09-10 03:44:09 AM  

homeschooled: ssssmashing: This really is not news or even an issue - Apple customers are used to terrible customer service. They are even willing to make appointments and wait in long lines to have someone at the "'Genius' Bar" tell them that they are farked. The iPod should come with a small vial of Vaseline - but Applephile don't need it, they like it rough.

At least we don't have to call "Dell Support" to PAY someone to tell us we're farked. I think the genius bar is a really great perk to my Mac. They have helped me learn stuff I didn't know about it. Don't complain when you're not even a customer. I have had nothing but great customer service by Apple.


I have owned 4 iPods. I finally wised up though. The "geniuses" at the genius bar lost my last one. I had it in for service because it was freezing all the time. The "genius" at the genius bar explained that it is "just the way the product works some times". They took it to run diagnostics, and promptly lost it. Nothing like having to make an appointment to have them tell you that they've lost your iPod. This sent me into a hellish downward spiral between talking to the "geniuses" at the genius bar and talking on the phone to some guy in Bangladesh who assured me that it was not possible that "geniuses" could have lost my iPod. I got it back 3 weeks later, having never been diagnosed or looked at.

Two words for you: Microsoft Zune!
 
2009-09-10 05:00:28 AM  
RedThree: The major reason for Mac hate online are the Mac vs. PC commercials.

Executive Summary of my thesis: "Apple hate" started around 2004. Part of that hate is a response to the "Windows hate" of evangelicizing zealots that dates back to 1993 or so; other key parts are: a bizarrely popular MP3 player and an annoying CEO.

1) The Mac cult: when the Macintosh was released in 1984, it was far superior to MS-DOS, and commercial software was available for both platforms. "Windows hate" dates back at least as far as to Microsoft's ascendence to the top of the technology world with Windows 3.0; by then, any deficiencies Windows had compared to Mac OS were merely aesthetic, and Apple's hardware was clearly inferior to the PC hardware available. And by then, the majority of software was written for Windows.

This was the beginning of the Mac cult, who continued their loyalty to Mac OS even as Windows/PCs surpassed them further. The Win hate among them was strong, while PC users generally ignored Mac users. Mac OS X changed the dynamic, and by 2004 it has matured enough into an elegant *nix OS (along with improvements in the Apple hardware, starting with the iMac in 1998). Coupled with the relative dormancy of Microsoft's OS after WinXP, those cultists (a minority of Mac users) gleefully and smugly returned to their PC bashing... which annoyed most people, as zealots tend to do.

2) the iPod: premiering in October 2001, this slick, overpriced MP3 player initially sold modestly. In July 2002, it added compatibility with Windows, and there was a nice bump in sales. In April 2003, iTunes for Windows debuts and offers legal music downloads; sales of songs and iPods rise. That Christmas, Santa Claus handed out so many iPods that it became the de facto MP3 player, despite still being overpriced and having less features than its competitors (Subsequently, the iPhone, sharing the same handicaps, has been equally successful, though with nowhere near the market share of the iPod).

3) Steve Jobs: he's just annoying, for reasons too numerous to detail here. Of course, it was in 1997 that he returned to Apple and became its CEO; but by 2004, he was the face of the corporation (in a way that no other founder/CEO is) and was seen as intrinsic to Apple's products.

The "I'm a Mac" ad campaign started in 2006 and was very effective, in one important way: it showed that Macs were PCs, except that they ran Mac OS X; many iPod users were barely aware that Apple still made computers [citation needed]. Myself, I believe most of the boost in Mac sales can be ascribed to the switch to Intel processors (making it an option for people who needed a Windows-capable computer). I agree with you that the ad campaign (which by now has run its course and become tired) definitely fanned the enmity between Mac OS X fanatics and Windows fanatics... and amuse the Linux fans, who see pots and kettles name-calling.
 
2009-09-10 05:50:28 AM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu:

No, the data was included in that figure. The voice plan is $40 and the unlimited data is $30.

$70.


I'm on a similar plan...an old Cingular Family Plan where our first line is $40/mo, and additional lines are $10/mo. My wife's line is the $40 line. Technically, my iPhone is $10/mo plus the $30/mo for the unlimited data. I was paying the same for my Blackberry Pearl before I got the iPhone. The plan has a relatively low number of talk minutes, but we have never used anywhere close to the limit, and we've built up tons of rollover minutes we'll never use, either.

I've never been much of an Apple fan, but to me, the iPhone is a very handy little computer with an intuitive UI, and it happens to also make phone calls.
 
2009-09-10 12:35:44 PM  

TheKnownUniverse: I must be the only person in the country that's never had a problem with AT&T, even when it was Cingular. I can't use it in the metro (yet), but people who talk on their phones on the metro are asswipes anyway.


Pretty much anyone who talks on the phone out in public for more than 2 minutes is an asswipe.


I had excellent service in Dallas back in the Cingular days, no problems whatsoever, but as soon as AT&T bought them out, I started getting spotty service and AT&T's customer service is almost nonexistent.

I was issued a company phone when I started work for my current employer. I was told it was so my supervisor could contact me when he needed (it has AT&T service), so after one year, I have had 2 calls come through over the company cell, my boss calls me on my personal phone, since it has reliable service, and my company is considering going with Verizon.

Pairing up AT&T's poor service and poor support with Apple's overpriced, underwhelming, proprietary technology was just a bad idea
 
2009-09-10 02:56:37 PM  

FlashHarry: how can AT&T legally claim "more bars in more places" when in fact it has some of the worst reception of any us carrier?


Because "more bars in more places" is just a slogan. Just a catch phrase they can parrot on TV.

If you read the commercial's fine print, I'm sure there's some jargon in there to the effect of "more bars in more places doesn't mean better reception. we can't promise that. they're just meaningless words we use to trick people into using our service"
 
2009-09-10 04:06:46 PM  

FeeltheIllinoise: Mugato: FeeltheIllinoise: Its not my fault final cut pro is only $1,300

Holy shiat, it's that much? I use it for free at school and had no idea. Well, it's free until the student loans start kicking in.

And I don't get the hatred towards people who prefer Apple products.

Consider a fully loaded mac pro, some sort of black magic or kona card card and final cut studio 2, you could spend $10,000-$15,000. A comparable Avid system can get up to $90,000.

You could also do the same for a copy of logic, a mac pro and a apogee ensemble is about the same, and a protools HD3 is about $30,000, although logic isn't on par technically with protools yet, but it can get there if it wants.

So yea, its that cheap.


You have no idea what you're talking about. A top of the line Avid system (Nitris DX or Mojo DX) can be had for $7,500 to $14,000, plus the cost of the computer. The software alone can be had for $2,500, or $300 if you're a student (compared to Final Cut's educational price of $900). So it might end up being a bit more expensive at the outset, but it's in more or less the same price range.
 
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