Paging Doctor Nick!

Hello everybody!

I for one, think that as a pt safety issue, doctors shouldn't be allowed to work more than 16 hours (IE: working a double for most of us) straight.

I work in a hospital, and I ask doctors quite often "how long you been here/awake". It's scary what the responses are. Often it's 24 hours, 36 hours, or the occasional "what's today?". People don't make good choices when you're completely exhausted, doctors are no exception.

/ridiculous hours is one of the reason I never became a doctor.

in before the 'socialised medicine!' whaargarbal

I'm at work.. but here is where I would have posted a photo of Michael J Fox in scrubs or dr. garb if I were at home.

i for one do Not make sound judgments when i have to take a major leak. isn't that right, Officer Dooley?

That's utterly nuts. Caffeine is LOTS of fun but in my experience it's not very useful outside of the short-term.

Assuming you don't drink caffeine regularly, you get a very nice great feeling boost. Unfortunately, that high is going to be followed by the inevitable crash. I feel for any patients treated during this period.

Assuming you do drink caffeine regularly, you're at a new baseline where you need your caffeine to perform at all. Your sleep is probably lacking even worse than it would otherwise.

And sugary snacks? They help.. how? Yeah, they'll perk you up right away, but they won't get you through your day.

FTA "solutions such as 'we need more staff' might not be achievable or effective in managing a fatigue risk."

How could having more staff so people didn't have to work 30-80 hour shifts possibly not help address fatigue risk? Doctors are tired from working too many consecutive hours. Solution: reduce the number of hours they work without sleep.

Whoever wrote those guidelines is beyond retarded.

I still can't believe we have hard and fast rules for truck drivers, airline pilots and underwater welders and other safety sensitive positions that regulate how long they can keep operating, but with doctors - especially emergency room doctors and inexperienced doctors - they actually EXPECT them keep operating long after any other profession would have kicked them out and told them to get some sleep first.

Now that's all kinds of seriously farked up. Does anyone actually think this is a good idea?

It's even more frightening when you hear stories of their residency. You'd be amazed at how long they go without ever really sleeping. They just sort of take 5 and 10 minutes naps here and there when they can.

In early but you guys are no fun. Are all of our pundits and trolls sleeping in today? There is an unbelievable pile of material for both extremes here and I have enough popcorn for all day.

For us it was; if you take call every other night you miss half of the pathology.

Did that (insert name of mass casualty incident) happen on a "T" or "L" day? Obscure? Name that city and hospital.

I read that as "creepy" doctors, not sleepy at first... more caffeine required for me evidently.

One of the reasons that docs (residents) are supposed to work the extra long shifts (30 hours at my hospital) is because the more times a patient is handed off to another doctor, the more mistakes get made. Seems silly, but it's true.

How about LSD induced hypnosis to stave off hunger and thirst? Think of the water saved!

Forget caffeine; let doctors take low dose amphetamines. If it's done right, you get all the benefits of caffeine without the jjiittererrss.

wide_eyed: One of the reasons that docs (residents) are supposed to work the extra long shifts (30 hours at my hospital) is because the more times a patient is handed off to another doctor, the more mistakes get made. Seems silly, but it's true.

Makes sense to me. In order to treat a patient, doctors need to build a rapport.

Depends on the person...I can drink 4 Red Bulls in a sitting and not have a tremor.

Then again, doctors with ADD are probably not a good thing.

/CODE BLUE!
//ZOMG PONIES!!!!!1!!!

karatekitten13: Depends on the person...I can drink 4 Red Bulls in a sitting and not have a tremor.

Then again, doctors with ADD are probably not a good thing.

/CODE BLUE!
//ZOMG PONIES!!!!!1!!!



Are they blue ponies?
Look, a bird!

navyjeff

Know who else got regular injections of Amphetamines?

HITLER!

/saw it on a documentary on Meth last night.

Ever drink so many energy drinks that it feels like time was slowing down? I have. it's spooky.

pugsleythegreat: navyjeff

Know who else got regular injections of Amphetamines?

HITLER!

/saw it on a documentary on Meth last night.

I was going to say something about doctors just being injected with meth, but egh you got the jist of it.

Wigwam For a Goose's Bridle: in before the 'socialised medicine!' whaargarbal

Yup. Government medicine = protect the doctors from liability = the system can do things like this.

Emposter: FTA "solutions such as 'we need more staff' might not be achievable or effective in managing a fatigue risk."

How could having more staff so people didn't have to work 30-80 hour shifts possibly not help address fatigue risk? Doctors are tired from working too many consecutive hours. Solution: reduce the number of hours they work without sleep.

Whoever wrote those guidelines is beyond retarded.

No. They're just recognizing the reality that the system is underfunded and there's nothing they can do about it.

navyjeff: Forget caffeine; let doctors take low dose amphetamines. If it's done right, you get all the benefits of caffeine without the jjiittererrss.

Actually, the best drug for the purpose is Provigil.

Drinking a 5 hour energy immediately after rolling out of bed makes the day a lot easier to face. Plus, I don't have coffee breath all morning. I started drinking 5-hour energy because I hated the acidic feeling of 2-3 cups of coffee in my gut.

I discovered that I'm less tired later in the day, and I'm more likely to drink water all day without a cup of coffee in front of me.

Orgasmatron138: Drinking a 5 hour energy immediately after rolling out of bed makes the day a lot easier to face. Plus, I don't have coffee breath all morning. I started drinking 5-hour energy because I hated the acidic feeling of 2-3 cups of coffee in my gut.

I discovered that I'm less tired later in the day, and I'm more likely to drink water all day without a cup of coffee in front of me.

You sound like a commercial.

/ That shiat seriously works, though. I was surprised.

News.com.au? Please don't be Queensland, please don't be Queensland, ple-

*clicks link*

Goddammit.

in b4 controlling all market aspects of supply in a given economic sector generates shortages. Oops, too late.

/sorry, australia

wide_eyed: One of the reasons that docs (residents) are supposed to work the extra long shifts (30 hours at my hospital) is because the more times a patient is handed off to another doctor, the more mistakes get made. Seems silly, but it's true.

Please. There is one reason and one reason only residents work ridiculous shifts and hours - CHEAP LABOR. Period. They can justify it any way they want, I heard all the crap when I was training, but its simple economics. You have slave labor for 4-5 years. Teaching hospitals could not survive without cheap resident labor.

merrymortician: I'm at work.. but here is where I would have posted a photo of Michael J Fox in scrubs or dr. garb if I were at home.

Shadow Blasko

I dont buy it.
I had 3 different docs when I had my MRSA infection and communication between the doctors, and between the docs and nursing team was almost non-existent.
I would rather have fresh eyes than a theoretical rapport.
/I had to keep track of what tests and what meds I was on. The nurses sure as hell could not do it.

That sounds like an unfortunate experience. Here we have family/patient centered rounds. We all round in the room with the patient/family every morning. We review tests/test results, tests we want to do and why, medications and why we are giving them, review discharge criteria and the progress we are making, and we answer questions for the family/patient. I always know test results on my kids and I know what medications they are on. I know if we've changed meds and why, and I make sure the family knows as well. My goal is that the family should always know what we are doing and why. As far as the docs go, if one doctor has the patient for 30 hours, he/she knows all about the history, the tests, the results, the vitals, etc. If a kid stays for 3 days, they've had one team of doctors and 2 residents. If docs worked 8 hours shifts, there would have been 9 residents, which would have increased the risk for vital information not being passed on.

Parthenogenetic: merrymortician: I'm at work.. but here is where I would have posted a photo of Michael J Fox in scrubs or dr. garb if I were at home.

Dr. Acula can only work 12 hour shifts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that surgeons use scalpels, and doctors don't.

ubermensch: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that surgeons use scalpels, and doctors don't.

Stick out your tounge and say AAAAAHHH!

simpsonfan

In the USA, when a doctor makes a mistake, lawyers get involved.
What is the situation in Australia regarding this?

In Australia, when the police and/or legal system does not work properly for a person suffering from medical malpractice (or have been treated badly by a landlord, bank, etc) that person will go to the media. Shows like A Current Affair and Today Tonight will cover the story wall to wall and generate so much public sympathy for the victim that the hospital (or whoever) will buckle under public pressure and do the right thing. Those kinds of shows lap those kinds of stories up like a cat at a bowl of cream!

///Doesn't always work, but works enough so that people keep doing it

Methylated xanthines? Nah, too much twitch on the end run and sweaty palms to boot.

Bring back Dexamyl (amobarb and dexedrine) one to cut the trail for ya, and one to send you down it.

Those were the days.