In February of that year, Kevin, who was 46 at the time, had a heart attack. He underwent quadruple bypass surgery the next month. He had barely recovered when Denise was struck by a brain aneurysm in August of that year. To help pay for their medical bills, the couple refinanced their mortgage and cashed out some of the equity in their home, which Kevin said at one time was as much as $60,000.

Things seemed as though they couldn't get any worse for the couple, but then Kevin lost his job right before Thanksgiving. The bad news continued just a few months later, when Denise, too, lost her job.

The Barrets again refinanced their mortgage in November 2007, increasing the mortgage debt from $148,000 to nearly $178,000 between a first and second mortgage, according to county real estate records. Denise said their mortgage payment jumped from around $1,300 a month to more than $1,800.

In August 2008, the couple filed bankruptcy, just after they started falling behind on their mortgage payments. County real estate records show Liberty First issued a default notice at the end of June 2008. Kevin said they'd fall behind on payments, catch up, only to fall behind again.

Ahh, the American dream.

If a "federal" program does not end in ".gov", it is not federal.

Morans.

Sad, but, still morans.

Pocket Ninja: But I've got to say that I've received some of these "mortgage modification" notices in the mail. The mailing looked pretty authentic--the company went all out to make it appear as if it were an actual government document.

A few weeks ago I got a letter from the "Property Tax Review Board". They wanted $189 to try and get my property taxes lowered. The property tax info they had on there was from 2 years ago when my house was worth twice what it is now, and they said they'd lower my taxes to what they are now. I knew it was fake, but it did make local TV (new window).

a fool and his money...

Look, everybody can't be a genius, like we are here on Fark. I think that most people who get scammed are idiots, but for every faintly gullible and trusting person, there are 100 scam artists out there to try to con them into something.

You don't know that until you learn it, usually the hard way.

I used to answer phones through another company for Federal Loan Modification Law Center. All those motherfarkers from middle-management on up deserve prison time. The managers lied to everyone, including the employees, and we ended up lying to consumers. The prick CEO even lied under oath during the Bankruptcy hearing for the company I worked for, and I called him out on it. The scary part is that I could have been the one to sign these people up, and done so thinking that I was actually helping them.

The bottom line with Debt Renegotiation Services is this: you're paying lawyer prices for what amounts to High School proofreading, for something you could realistically do yourself.

/Don't hate me, hate the people that ordered me around

Guilty here. When the home modification loans first started being whispered, my parents gave $1,000 to a company who said they were specializing in the new home loans. It was easy enough to believe, because it was a family member of my pop's friend. We were advised to just stop bothering with the house payment (not that we COULD have paid it) and 3 months later we're getting a nice letter of foreclosure. It's then that we start calling the bank back, they call us farking idiots, and we manage to get our money + house back. We're still on REAL shaky ground, and I might just have to cut my college degree early, but at least we didn't have the cops knocking on our door to give us a 24 hour notice to vacate.

UltimaCS: Guilty here. When the home modification loans first started being whispered, my parents gave $1,000 to a company who said they were specializing in the new home loans. It was easy enough to believe, because it was a family member of my pop's friend. We were advised to just stop bothering with the house payment (not that we COULD have paid it) and 3 months later we're getting a nice letter of foreclosure. It's then that we start calling the bank back, they call us farking idiots, and we manage to get our money + house back. We're still on REAL shaky ground, and I might just have to cut my college degree early, but at least we didn't have the cops knocking on our door to give us a 24 hour notice to vacate.

For the record, what they told you about skipping house payments was completely illegal. If you haven't already, file a complaint with the FTC. They probably were already biatchslapped in May or June, but adding fuel to the fire never hurts in situations like this.

/Wishes I could apologize in person to the dozen people I harmed

Excen: The bottom line with Debt Renegotiation Services is this: you're paying lawyer prices for what amounts to High School proofreading, for something you could realistically do yourself.

Well said. I'm a lawyer and a couple of my clients have brought me some of these pitches they've received, which I fortunately was able to steer them away from.

doglover: There should be a law where lynching certificates can be issued. This fake company needs to get their necks stretched a bit.

I guess, but... Any country that allows a private company to use a word like "Federal" in its name wants to fool people into trusting a company because of an association with the government. On top of it, this couple shouldn't be losing their house. They were fooled, and the bank should be forced to concede to reality - these people were convinced they were following good, expert advice, which is exactly what the bank would want them to do. Taking their home is just going to make everyone a little less likely to find an expert to help them make payments or renegotiate. Finding an expert should not be a risk. If your system is founded on the assumption of scams, obviously your economy is going to fail and your people will struggle. These folks are getting no protection at all. It's totally illogical from all angles.

If the law won't protect consumers from businesses then there's no reason to think it will allow consumers to protect themselves. What I want to know is, what kind of scams does the government have running that they won't protect consumers?

Why did they cash out equity to pay medical bills? That has to be about the dumbest thing you can do if you're on shaky financial ground. They went from unpaid unsecured debt, debt that the doctors couldn't do much to collect, to securing the debt with their farking home. The doctors weren't going to undo his bypass surgery, but the bank can certainly take the house.

whiskeyinthejar: The Barrets again refinanced their mortgage in November 2007, increasing the mortgage debt from $148,000 to nearly $178,000 between a first and second mortgage, according to county real estate records. Denise said their mortgage payment jumped from around $1,300 a month to more than $1,800.

Sounds like they came out 30k ahead... they should just take the money and run.

doglover
There should be a law where lynching certificates can be issued. This fake company needs to get their necks stretched a bit.

I am constantly amazed that people like this don't end up with Excedrin headache number .357 more often.

jpatrickoneal: Why did they cash out equity to pay medical bills? That has to be about the dumbest thing you can do if you're on shaky financial ground. They went from unpaid unsecured debt, debt that the doctors couldn't do much to collect, to securing the debt with their farking home. The doctors weren't going to undo his bypass surgery, but the bank can certainly take the house.

Some idiots just have this stupid desire to actually pay their bills rather than milk the system. We need to get rid of those idiots and get more people like you who recommend on just ignoring debts that don't have consequence.

*mutters something about Obama shakes head moves on

Doppleganger871: If a "federal" program does not end in ".gov", it is not federal.

Morans.

Sad, but, still morans.

FAIL. See: AnnualCreditReport.com. Here's proof that it's legit.

Excen: For the record, what they told you about skipping house payments was completely illegal. If you haven't already, file a complaint with the FTC. They probably were already biatchslapped in May or June, but adding fuel to the fire never hurts in situations like this.

That's interesting to hear. We went out of our way NOT to mention that they told us to do that, because we figured that the bank would say "Okay... so where's that $5,000 that you've been 'saving up' for us then?".

MycroftHolmes: Some idiots just have this stupid desire to actually pay their bills rather than milk the system. We need to get rid of those idiots and get more people like you who recommend on just ignoring debts that don't have consequence.

Or we could nationalize the system to marginalize people like jpatrickoneal, but Republicans don't want freeloaders to get a free ride off of their taxdollars. THEY want to get the free ride.

Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.

AC21365: Anyone else get pissed off at the commercials for shams like this? Takes every shred of self control to not rage out at the sheer amounts of stupid.

turn off the box. call the station. tell them you're not watching anymore

jpatrickoneal: Why did they cash out equity to pay medical bills? That has to be about the dumbest thing you can do if you're on shaky financial ground. They went from unpaid unsecured debt, debt that the doctors couldn't do much to collect, to securing the debt with their farking home. The doctors weren't going to undo his bypass surgery, but the bank can certainly take the house.

They earnestly (perhaps foolishly) thought they were going to pay off everything, eventually. The second mortgage was likely at 6-7% amortized over a 30 year repayment (maybe even at a teaser rate for the first few years), while the medical bills, if they said anything other than "pay this amount now" may have been ringing up 20% interest/late-fees and amortizing on a 5-year repayment.

It's too bad the real Feds don't get involved until the victims are way too numerous.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.

They thought they were engaging a service to renegotiate their loan, with the intention of making good on it. How, exactly, does that constitute screwing over the mortgage company?

Boofarkinhoo

Was the address in Nigeria?

Doppleganger871: If a "federal" program does not end in ".gov", it is not federal.

Morans.

Sad, but, still morans.

You mean like the United States Postal Service (new window)?

As long as there are Bankruptcy Courts in this country, we basically have socialized medicine. At least all the worst parts, anyway.

Most of this is just sad, the only thing i want to make sure people know is the BBB is a scam. If you pay their money, you cant ever have a negative rating, if you dont, one complaint and you are unsatisfactory.

when the bbb guy came inot my company he said "we just want your money" our endorsement matters to those it matters to"

look up quicken loans on your bbb, they will have 1000's of complaints and be satisfactory...

check out www.ripoffreport.com for the real skinny on companies

Inescapable Future of Humanity: MycroftHolmes: Some idiots just have this stupid desire to actually pay their bills rather than milk the system. We need to get rid of those idiots and get more people like you who recommend on just ignoring debts that don't have consequence.

Or we could nationalize the system to marginalize people like jpatrickoneal, but Republicans don't want freeloaders to get a free ride off of their taxdollars. THEY want to get the free ride.

I have health insurance, I'm not a freeloader. In fact, my health insurance is expensive to compensate the losses doctors take on treating the freeloaders. I don't think nationalizing is a good idea, but requiring employers to provide insurance isn't a bad idea. My employer pays $5/hour for health insurance. We're in the contracting business. I'd be willing to bet that would go down to half or less if all our non-union competition was forced to insure their employees instead of sending them to the emergency room on our dime.

That being said, shifting unsecured debt that you're unable to pay into home equity is a horrible idea. They screwed the bank instead of the doctor, and lost their home in the process. That's somewhere between honorable and stupid.

moothemagiccow: turn off the box. call the station. tell them you're not watching anymore

Even better, write the producers of the show that has them as a sponsor and tell them you're not watching anymore.

UltimaCS: Excen: For the record, what they told you about skipping house payments was completely illegal. If you haven't already, file a complaint with the FTC. They probably were already biatchslapped in May or June, but adding fuel to the fire never hurts in situations like this.

That's interesting to hear. We went out of our way NOT to mention that they told us to do that, because we figured that the bank would say "Okay... so where's that $5,000 that you've been 'saving up' for us then?".

Do you have a go-to person at your bank? Because if you're talking to one person and have rapport with them, mentioning that will go a long way to help you get back on track. Banks want these services shut down even more than you do, and any ammunition you give them to do so will help both you and them. Scams like FedMod (to use the nickname) cut into their bottom lines by causing even more foreclosures, as well as a drop in mortgage rates (and thereby revenue) for the rare consumer that ends up getting a modification. The point is, most consumers that pay for these types of services are using credit cards, not savings, anyway.

I would offer you advice as to your situation, but I'm not a trained debt counselor, and it would be imprudent for me to act like one, given my background. I will say this though: if you have cash on hand, good-faith payments go a long way with a bank.

/There's a special circle of hell reserved for Derek Oberholtzer and Steve Lux

MycroftHolmes: Some idiots just have this stupid desire to actually pay their bills rather than milk the system. We need to get rid of those idiots and get more people like you who recommend on just ignoring debts that don't have consequence.

This comes down to the street axiom "Don't hate the playa, hate the game." What motivation is there to do the responsible thing anymore?
I bought a reasonably priced home ($194,000 in N California) with mortgage payments of $1640. I know people that bought $600,000 homes on an ARM, couldn't pay it, and Mr. Government stepped in to help. One of them quite literally has a mortgage payment lower than mine after the readjustment. So even though I feel like I did the responsible thing, I could have had a new, much larger house for about the same price if I was capable of being a self-absorbed asshat.

Funny how they slam Obama for the $8,000 for the new home.

Yet, it sounds like the core problem here was a lack of health insurance, and a bunch of bills surrounding that, and then them losing their jobs because they were unable to continue working at the level they had before.

Sounds like if they didn't have massive medical bills, things would be FAR better for them.

I'll offer free advice to anyone that wants it from here. I am licensed and qualified to do it. I DONT do it professionally, cuz i think its a scam in most cases, and giving false hope. but if a farker wants to do it for themselves, ill help them, again for free....

email in profile.

Licensed Mortgage Broker and Real Estate Broker.

It's a sad state of affairs when falling ill can rob you of your home.

redcard: Funny how they slam Obama for the $8,000 for the new home.

Yet, it sounds like the core problem here was a lack of health insurance, and a bunch of bills surrounding that, and then them losing their jobs because they were unable to continue working at the level they had before.

Sounds like if they didn't have massive medical bills, things would be FAR better for them.

That's why it's a good idea to at least get catastrophic medical coverage. Hell, a policy with a maximum out of pocket for a single illness of something as high as $5000 would have been fantastic for them. Sure, the everyday medical stuff would have cost them money, but the aneurism and heart attack would have been cut off at 10k.

Saw the adds, How can you trust a company that tries to fool you by looking like a news show?

From TFA, $60,000 in medical bills is what pushed this couple over the edge into refinancing their mortgage and getting into the position where they couldn't keep up their payments.

My dad had quadruple bypass surgery and we didn't have to consider refinancing the mortgage and risking my parents' home to save his life because we have health care.

/the dots, connect them, my american friends

jdetweiler: [Blah Blah, the BBB is an extortion firm]

check out www.ImATool.com for the real skinny on companies

Ad revenue dropping off for your website or something?

Excen: jdetweiler: [Blah Blah, the BBB is an extortion firm]

check out www.ImATool.com for the real skinny on companies

Ad revenue dropping off for your website or something?

troll much?
0/10

Mortgage Resources (Federal Reserve)
5 Tips For Avoiding Foreclosure Scams (Federal Reserve)
5 Tips For Protecting Your Home From Foreclosure (Federal Reserve)
Consumer Help (Federal Reserve)
Mortgage/Real Estate Resources (Federal Trade Commission)
Foreclosure Rescue Scams (Federal Trade Commission)
Mortgage Payments Sending You Reeling? Here's What To Do (Federal Trade Commission)
Consumer Protection (Federal Trade Commission)
HUD-Approved Housing Counseling Agencies (US Dep't of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)) or call 1-800-569-4287
Hope Now (mortgage industry alliance to assist consumers)

Doppleganger871
If a "federal" program does not end in ".gov", it is not federal.

Morans.

Sad, but, still morans.

I guess this doesn't qualify as federal.(^)

Pocket Ninja: But I've got to say that I've received some of these "mortgage modification" notices in the mail. The mailing looked pretty authentic--the company went all out to make it appear as if it were an actual government document. I can easily see how someone without much training or experience with financial matters would fall for one.

Isn't that.... well... "being a bunch of idiots?"

Somewhere in most people's upbringing, they are taught, "If someone or some company tells you they can get you free money if you send them free money first, it's a SCAM!!"

If you fall for something like this, you're by definition, an idiot.

I certainly feel badly for these folks, but with the information that is freely and easily available via the Internet, they could have taken care of this mess by themselves well before it got bad. Don't have a computer? Go to the local library. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" also applies when the law is to your benefit and you fail to avail yourself of it, *especially* when you can just freaking Google it.

Having said that, if it was me that got cheated like that, Nabile Anz might find himself suspiciously accident-prone.

Smelma_Kayak:
/the dots, connect them, my american friends

Socialized medicine would have made me pay for them not having catastrophic coverage. If they didn't die while waiting for treatment that is.

Your own business, mind it, my Canadian friend.

pnuttzz: Doppleganger871
If a "federal" program does not end in ".gov", it is not federal.

Morans.

Sad, but, still morans.

I guess this doesn't qualify as federal.(^)

No, FannieMae doesn't qualify as federal. They're a "government sponsored enterprise". The government had to step in to save FannieMae, true - but when they did they proclaimed, get this, that they had no obligation to do so, seeing as Fannie is a privately owned, publicly traded company that in fact has disclaimers in each and every prospectus spelling out how they are not a government program. Because they're not.

Don't worry, it's not a silly mistake to make. The reason FannieMae was bailed out is because a lot of investors (including the Chinese) thought it was backed by the full faith and credit of the US. Had FNMA defaulted, that would have been almost as bad as the treasury defaulting; foreign treasuries have about 50% of their USD holdings in agencies rather than treasuries. If the agencies would've defaulted, chances are the Chines would've dumped their treasuries too.

Anyway, easy mistake to make, it's not like this sort of thing ever makes the news.. Boring mortgages..

texastag: Socialized medicine would have made me pay for them not having catastrophic coverage. If they didn't die while waiting for treatment that is.

Now your taxes are going to bail them out anyway. You win, Fark Independent!

pnuttzz: I guess this doesn't qualify as federal.(^)

That's not a Federal Government agency. Well, I suppose I should clarify: After the bailouts, the federal government does own the majority of stock and thus can run the company, however it isn't a government agency, and at some point the government will probalby sell the stock and it'll be a normal public company. The government created Fannie Mae, it is a government sponsored enterprise, but it is not a government entity.

Also www.usps.gov was the Post Office's address for many years, and still goes there. www.annualcreditreport.gov also work, and takes you to the FTC's page on it. The reason they use .com for things like that is because some people don't know there are domains other than .com.

"They're giving these brand-new homeowners $8,000 bonuses," she said. "Why aren't they helping the people who are losing their homes?"

You're not entitled to a home. Get your shiat together first.

GaryPDX: Save us Obama, you're our only hope.

Bucky Katt: If only everyone were more like you.

...and not more like the people who are running a similar scam to the original article, which features little signs by the highway that say "OBAMA HOME PLAN."

texastag: Smelma_Kayak:
/the dots, connect them, my american friends

If they didn't die while waiting for treatment that is.


And you know this about Canada from your extensive experience of staying in Texas? If a Canadian, who is part of the system, is happy with it why would you not believe it ? You would be quite surprised to know that most Canadians are happy with the health care they receive. There might be few shortcomings which they can work on but nowhere as bad as USA.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/canadians-happy-with-primary-health- c are-study-says/article1229169/

/Turn off that TV. Fox news has that effect on young fertile minds.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.


THIS

To help pay for their medical bills, the couple refinanced their mortgage and cashed out some of the equity in their home, which Kevin said at one time was as much as $60,000.

jpatrickoneal: Why did they cash out equity to pay medical bills? That has to be about the dumbest thing you can do if you're on shaky financial ground. They went from unpaid unsecured debt, debt that the doctors couldn't do much to collect, to securing the debt with their farking home. The doctors weren't going to undo his bypass surgery, but the bank can certainly take the house.

I don't get it either. Don't you just go to the hospital, have the surgery, and go home and concentrate on getting better? I don't understand this thing about "medical bills".

/Canadian

Fark_Guy_Rob: Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.

THIS -- A lot of THIS

AmazingRuss: whiskeyinthejar: The Barrets again refinanced their mortgage in November 2007, increasing the mortgage debt from $148,000 to nearly $178,000 between a first and second mortgage, according to county real estate records. Denise said their mortgage payment jumped from around $1,300 a month to more than $1,800.

Sounds like they came out 30k ahead... they should just take the money and run.

WHAT money you deluded real-estate believing fool? If they HAD the money, they wouldn't have to pay a mortgage! Sheez! You idiots with the "house is an investment" disease are a piece of work!

Considering how the feds and state regulators have been warning about these scams for the past few years, it's really hard to feel any sympathy for them.

Yeah,,, like the "cash for clunkers" BULLshiat was suppose to give everyone a $4500 discount. GUESS WHAT,,,,they are NOW going to add that $4500 to YOUR taxes as taxable income,,,,TA DA!!!

ads for forclosure "law" centers are all over the AM radio stations. They call themselves lawfirms so they can charge an upfront retainer fee even though a lawyer will probably never work with your case.

one thing i notice about ads on AM radio. They are all geared for up-front fees. Gold,financial service ect., all looking for the quick upfront profit

stiletto_the_wise: Now your taxes are going to bail them out anyway. You win, Fark Independent!

bailing out homeowners might piss off the fark intependents, so i'll make a slight correction and remind them that only the banks profits will be bailed out. the homeowners still lose everything

HONDOWAYNE: Yeah,,, like the "cash for clunkers" BULLshiat was suppose to give everyone a $4500 discount. GUESS WHAT,,,,they are NOW going to add that $4500 to YOUR taxes as taxable income,,,,TA DA!!!

Cash for clunkers is federal tax free. However, individual states can tax it (like South Dakota).

MycroftHolmes: Fark_Guy_Rob: Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.

They thought they were engaging a service to renegotiate their loan, with the intention of making good on it. How, exactly, does that constitute screwing over the mortgage company?

By not HONORING the contract as written, They aggreed to pay X amount of $ for X amount of years.
The company that screwed them out- they just was unable to deliver(i know they NEVER intended to deliver). So Both them and the company were working to screw the bank out of the money they contracted to pay back.

It may be semantics to you but- I loan friend A $100 and he agrees to pay me back in a week $125. Friend B tells Friend A, dont worry, I(B) will work it out with HAM006, you will only have to pay him back $75 in 2 weeks if you give (B)$10 now.

Ham006 is screwed out of $50 if B is sucessfull, if not (A) is screwed out of $10(and in EXTREME trouble with this ITG(internet tough guy).

Man, I had no idea... If all it took to swindle people out of thousands was some "government-looking" letterhead and the right business name, I'm quitting my job tomorrow and starting my own federal mortgage counseling company. I'll call it "Federal American Recovery Korporation"

Interesting is pretty far down the list of tags I'd use for these morans.

jpatrickoneal: .....
That being said, shifting unsecured debt that you're unable to pay into home equity is a horrible idea. They screwed the bank instead of the doctor, and lost their home in the process. That's somewhere between honorable and stupid.


This
// if the new mortgage ends with the bank getting less money at the end of loan period, then THEY are getting screwed.

///I'm not saying i have no sympathy for the people in article, I do, and for others in similar situations. If you agree to pay X then pay X, if not then YOU ARE BREAKING THE CONTRACT and lose the home.

////Real lucky NOT to be unemployed right now and would be in their situation if lost job, but would not blame the bank. Would blame self if didn't do what i could to save home. ANYBODY that tells you not to even talk to a lien/mortgage holder IS NOT LEGIT.
You tell them i am working with X company and Mr. X at ph# should be contacted about this. If calls continue find out what if anything MR. X has done. If nothing then MAYBE mortgage holder MIGHT work with you- YOU KEPT THEM INFORMED.

Olthoi: It's a sad state of affairs when falling ill can rob you of your home.

THAT has ALWAYS been the case in this country at least, if you use your home as collateral or actually have equity. If you lose your job(health,attendance, bad attitude, A**hat of boss) and dont find one soon enough, you lose home(maybe not to the DR, but to the creditors.

I love getting those IRS looking sealed mailers that say (word for word):

"FEDERAL STIMULUS BILL BENEFITS NOTIFICATION - IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED. WARNING: $2,000 FINE, 5 YEARS IMPRISONMENT, OR BOTH FOR ANY PERSON INTERFERING OR OBSTRUCTING WITH DELIEVERY OF THIS LETTER."

Then in smaller print:

"This is a solicitation from a Federally approved FHA lender..."

...

I think the problem is we have too many regulations.

Clearly we need to deregulate these guys even more!

These are the type of people that allow me to flip houses and profit thousands of dollars.

nickerj1: These are the type of people that allow me to flip houses and profit thousands of dollars.

People who had cash to do that after the mortgage crisis were in the right place at the right time. Nothing more, nothing less.

A Tout Le Monde: nickerj1: These are the type of people that allow me to flip houses and profit thousands of dollars.

People who had cash to do that after the mortgage crisis were in the right place at the right time. Nothing more, nothing less.

But kudos to you for taking advantage, I would if I could..

texastag: Smelma_Kayak:
/the dots, connect them, my american friends

Socialized medicine would have made me pay for them not having catastrophic coverage. If they didn't die while waiting for treatment that is.

Your own business, mind it, my Canadian friend.

I used to think like you do - until the wife and I took a trip up north and she had to go to the emergecy room.

They were very sorry to inform us our insurance didn't work up there and I would need to pay cash up front. I was like, "how much?" After a little figuring, the cost for an emergency room visit at a major hospital came to $160CN, (a little over a hundred US back then). I thought there was some mistake, maybe it was really $1600. Nope, that's what it cost - I guess you could call it wholesale.

A month later an invoice came in the mail. Oh boy, here comes the fine print I thought. $15 for a couple different medications. This isn't co-pay, this is full price.

I'm not sure if I'm for socialized medicine - I'm totally sure I like paying the true value for something.

ham006: MycroftHolmes: Fark_Guy_Rob: Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.

They thought they were engaging a service to renegotiate their loan, with the intention of making good on it. How, exactly, does that constitute screwing over the mortgage company?

By not HONORING the contract as written, They aggreed to pay X amount of $ for X amount of years.
The company that screwed them out- they just was unable to deliver(i know they NEVER intended to deliver). So Both them and the company were working to screw the bank out of the money they contracted to pay back.

It may be semantics to you but- I loan friend A $100 and he agrees to pay me back in a week $125. Friend B tells Friend A, dont worry, I(B) will work it out with HAM006, you will only have to pay him back $75 in 2 weeks if you give (B)$10 now.

Ham006 is screwed out of $50 if B is sucessfull, if not (A) is screwed out of $10(and in EXTREME trouble with this ITG(internet tough guy).

Wow. You must really hate the entire banking industry. Buying, selling, and renegotiating debt is very common. Extremely so.

Ficoce: After a little figuring, the cost for an emergency room visit at a major hospital came to $160CN, (a little over a hundred US back then). I thought there was some mistake, maybe it was really $1600. Nope, that's what it cost - I guess you could call it wholesale.

Bbbbut, you MUST have waited 5 MONTHS to get in to the emergency room!!!

Bbbbut, I'm sure you were SQUEEZED into the overcrowded and understaffed hospital!!

Bbbbut, you didn't get the TOP TIER CARE we get here in 'murica!!

Bbbbut, Canadians have a CRIPPLING tax burden that prevents them from having an AMERICAN QUALITY OF LIFE!!

Bbbbut, uh.... SOCIALISM BAD! WHARRGGARBL!!!

Ficoce:

$160!!! When my dog stole some Motrin her ER bill was 10X that!!
What gives?? Maybe you indirectly benefitted from gov subsidies?
(I'm thinking that's a good thing)

/Doggie is okay now.

Pocket Ninja: It's going to be really easy to just come in and berate this couple for being a bunch of idiots who fell for what's "obviously" a scam and then make some snide, vaguely Darwin-related comments. But I've got to say that I've received some of these "mortgage modification" notices in the mail. The mailing looked pretty authentic--the company went all out to make it appear as if it were an actual government document. I can easily see how someone without much training or experience with financial matters would fall for one. It even seems like this couple at least tried to do their homework in that they researched the company with the BBB.

Anyone who has been trusted with a hundred or so thousand dollars should have the basic common sense not to fall for this garbage.

This includes the official "news flash" that Gold is valued higher than ever and now is the time to turn in your unwanted and broken gold

jpatrickoneal: Why did they cash out equity to pay medical bills? That has to be about the dumbest thing you can do if you're on shaky financial ground. They went from unpaid unsecured debt, debt that the doctors couldn't do much to collect, to securing the debt with their farking home. The doctors weren't going to undo his bypass surgery, but the bank can certainly take the house.

Do you really believe their story? It's easy, once you are foreclosed on and talking to the media, to say "I had medical bills" because it's not provable that you didn't and people will automatically feel sorry for you (also you are tapping into the zeitgeist- zomg they had medical bills and lost their home!).

Ficoce:
I used to think like you do - until the wife and I took a trip up north and she had to go to the emergecy room.

They were very sorry to inform us our insurance didn't work up there and I would need to pay cash up front. I was like, "how much?" After a little figuring, the cost for an emergency room visit at a major hospital came to $160CN, (a little over a hundred US back then). I thought there was some mistake, maybe it was really $1600. Nope, that's what it cost - I guess you could call it wholesale.

A month later an invoice came in the mail. Oh boy, here comes the fine print I thought. $15 for a couple different medications. This isn't co-pay, this is full price.

I'm not sure if I'm for socialized medicine - I'm totally sure I like paying the true value for something.

In all fairness, I assume she went with was a relatively minor problem. If the doctors had had to sew her pelvis back on or something, the bill would likely have been higher. We can't really afford to pay to treat un(der)insured travelers, as much as we'd like to just write it off. Anyway, I'm sorry about the $175, I hope your visit here was otherwise pleasant.

jpatrickoneal: That's why it's a good idea to at least get catastrophic medical coverage. Hell, a policy with a maximum out of pocket for a single illness of something as high as $5000 would have been fantastic for them. Sure, the everyday medical stuff would have cost them money, but the aneurism and heart attack would have been cut off at 10k.

You're assuming two things that are far from certain.

A.) That anyone would have sold them a catastrophic policy. Ain't nobody going to sell one to my cancer-surviving mother. I don't know their health history, but if they're like a lot of Americans, saying "shoulda bought yourself a catastrophic plan" is a load of shiat, because they couldn't have gotten one.

B.) That the catastrophic plan would have actually paid anything, and not farked them over. Again, very wishful thinking in this day and age.

E5bie: Ficoce:

$160!!! When my dog stole some Motrin her ER bill was 10X that!!
What gives?? Maybe you indirectly benefitted from gov subsidies?
(I'm thinking that's a good thing)

/Doggie is okay now.

Nope, that's the thing about it - it's what the medical care actually cost without all the extras like hospital and insurance company ceo/vp stock options. It took them about 15 minutes to work out the cost. Nice hospital, too.

I mean, how much does medical care actually cost? Does anyone at a non-profit really need 7 figures a year?

If I paid "at cost" for a big gulp at 7-11, I'd probably pay 15 cents and get change back.

Excen: Do you have a go-to person at your bank? Because if you're talking to one person and have rapport with them, mentioning that will go a long way to help you get back on track.

And the second worst thing about my situation is that we simply cannot speak with any one person at our bank, or get any of them to say the same thing twice. It's such a mess because we'll get a message on our answering machine about one thing, call back, and then be told "Wow, I can't believe someone would say that to you. We don't do that".

stiletto_the_wise: texastag: Socialized medicine would have made me pay for them not having catastrophic coverage. If they didn't die while waiting for treatment that is.

Now your taxes are going to bail them out anyway. You win, Fark Independent!

Our taxes are not bailing them out(the bank got the house), that tax money was paid to bail out the BANKS, they will take this out the billions we have already paid them, then they will write it off as business loss and take tax credit(lol).

No Such AgencyIn all fairness, I assume she went with was a relatively minor problem. If the doctors had had to sew her pelvis back on or something, the bill would likely have been higher. We can't really afford to pay to treat un(der)insured travelers, as much as we'd like to just write it off. Anyway, I'm sorry about the $175, I hope your visit here was otherwise pleasant.

A little travel tip; if you pick a sliver while on a trip in the US, don't go to the hospital. It might cost a grand before it's all done. Urgent care is about half that. Thank you for being critical in a very polite way.

And the second worst thing about my situation is that we simply cannot speak with any one person at our bank, or get any of them to say the same thing twice. It's such a mess because we'll get a message on our answering machine about one thing, call back, and then be told "Wow, I can't believe someone would say that to you. We don't do that".

Use the drive through less, actually go into the bank every once in a while and get to know someone by first name.

MycroftHolmes: ham006: MycroftHolmes: Fark_Guy_Rob: Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.

They thought they were engaging a service to renegotiate their loan, with the intention of making good on it. How, exactly, does that constitute screwing over the mortgage company?

By not HONORING the contract as written, They aggreed to pay X amount of $ for X amount of years.
The company that screwed them out- they just was unable to deliver(i know they NEVER intended to deliver). So Both them and the company were working to screw the bank out of the money they contracted to pay back.

It may be semantics to you but- I loan friend A $100 and he agrees to pay me back in a week $125. Friend B tells Friend A, dont worry, I(B) will work it out with HAM006, you will only have to pay him back $75 in 2 weeks if you give (B)$10 now.

Ham006 is screwed out of $50 if B is sucessfull, if not (A) is screwed out of $10(and in EXTREME trouble with this ITG(internet tough guy).

Wow. You must really hate the entire banking industry. Buying, selling, and renegotiating debt is very common. Extremely so.

HUH
Where did i say i HATED the banking industry. I know it is common, from business point of view, i would rather make $10 than nothing, but that is still CHANGING the original contract. Kinda like going to a party with a girl and half way thru she says " I gotta go but my BROTHER can stand in for the rst of the date". Now the brother MIGHT be a good kisser and all, but he aint her.

E5bie: Ficoce:

$160!!! When my dog stole some Motrin her ER bill was 10X that!!
What gives?? Maybe you indirectly benefitted from gov subsidies?
(I'm thinking that's a good thing)

/Doggie is okay now.

Good thing for him, however the Canadian TAX payer lost.(who cares about that tho-this is 'merica)

/glad to hear bout the doggie doing better.

No Such Agency: .....
In all fairness, I assume she went with was a relatively minor problem. If the doctors had had to sew her pelvis back on or something, the bill would likely have been higher. We can't really afford to pay to treat un(der)insured travelers, as much as we'd like to just write it off. Anyway, I'm sorry about the $175, I hope your visit here was otherwise pleasant.

Since you wrote that, i think i will share something with you. I grew up in Detroit MI. I personally knew and worked with a number of individuals at DIFFERENT jobs that worked in the US for the health insurance, they would drive over the bridge every day to come to work here, they were employable and have had jobs in Canada and a couple even took paycuts. So it is quite probable that MOST Canadians like there health care, but YOU need to understand-some don't.

As for AMERICA, 80% are insured and MOST of them ARE happy with their current insurance.

If i were to tell you that private health care is better and we were going to change YOUR system to LOWER taxes, MOST Canadians would say no.

PEOPLE don't LIKE change- and when it's the gubment offering the change-YOU HAVE TO BE VERY WARY.

ham006: MycroftHolmes: ham006: MycroftHolmes: Fark_Guy_Rob: Alright - so....

A couple that took a bunch of money from a company and then failed to keep up their end of the contractual agreement...is upset that a company that took a bunch of money from them has failed to keep up their end of a contractual agreement?

The screwed the mortgage company out of some...~170k and they are pissed off that some other company screwed them out of a few k? And they have the balls to assert the 8k going to new home owners (which I think is crap, personally, but that's another story) should go to them. Because, *clearly* they've shown such great financial skills thus far.

People, as a whole, are really, really pathetic.

They thought they were engaging a service to renegotiate their loan, with the intention of making good on it. How, exactly, does that constitute screwing over the mortgage company?

By not HONORING the contract as written, They aggreed to pay X amount of $ for X amount of years.
The company that screwed them out- they just was unable to deliver(i know they NEVER intended to deliver). So Both them and the company were working to screw the bank out of the money they contracted to pay back.

It may be semantics to you but- I loan friend A $100 and he agrees to pay me back in a week $125. Friend B tells Friend A, dont worry, I(B) will work it out with HAM006, you will only have to pay him back $75 in 2 weeks if you give (B)$10 now.

Ham006 is screwed out of $50 if B is sucessfull, if not (A) is screwed out of $10(and in EXTREME trouble with this ITG(internet tough guy).

Wow. You must really hate the entire banking industry. Buying, selling, and renegotiating debt is very common. Extremely so.

HUH
Where did i say i HATED the banking industry. I know it is common, from business point of view, i would rather make $10 than nothing, but that is still CHANGING the original contract. Kinda like going to a party with a girl and half way thru she says " I gotta go but my BROTHER can stand in for the rst of the date". Now the brother MIGHT be a good kisser and all, but he aint her.
You can't change the contract without agreement from both parties. i do not equate an attempt to renegotiate a contract as akin to breaking the contract. You can bring up as many non-applicable comparison's as you want, but theat still won't make the point. Now, I do agree that they were naive to believe the Federal whatever when they said ignore the calls from the bank, we have it covered. But it sounds like they were operating in good faith, trying to renegotiate a loan so that they could make good on it.

If I go to a business partner and say 'This contract we signed was written in a time when our situation was different. let's mutually agree to terms that are acceptable to both of us given the current situation and create a new agreement', this is not equivalent to trying to screw over the partner and breaking the contract.

ham006: E5bie: Ficoce:

Good thing for him, however the Canadian TAX payer lost.(who cares about that tho-this is 'merica)


Hm. You must have an absolute fit about American TAXES for:
public schools,
public roads,
fire,
police,
and even public PARKS (which are not strictly necessary for life)

ZOMG It's an atrocity!

when it's the gubment offering the change-YOU HAVE TO BE VERY WARY.

Be afraid- be very afraid.
I already trust our elected officials with the most advanced military force in the world,
so I'm pretty sure they can handle running a hospital system too.

ham006: E5bie: Ficoce:

$160!!! When my dog stole some Motrin her ER bill was 10X that!!
What gives?? Maybe you indirectly benefitted from gov subsidies?
(I'm thinking that's a good thing)

/Doggie is okay now.

Good thing for him, however the Canadian TAX payer lost.(who cares about that tho-this is 'merica)

/glad to hear bout the doggie doing better.

You aren't getting it. My wife got care at cost. If it would have been free - then the taxpayers would have had to pay. The way it is, profit isn't a "right". They could have told me it cost $500 to have a nurse spend 5 minutes taking blood pressure and another 10 minutes for the doctor to take a look, but it didn't cost $500. The cost was $160 - total.

Bennie Crabtree:
I guess, but... Any country that allows a private company to use a word like "Federal" in its name wants to fool people into trusting a company because of an association with the government.

QFT

when it's the gubment offering the change-YOU HAVE TO BE VERY WARY.

If these people had bothered to find out about free government programs to provide them with sound advice about how to handle their mortgage debt, instead of some cold-caller/junk-mailer scam artist, they would almost certainly be in better shape today.

If you are concerned about foreclosure, or know someone who is, please have them contact an authoritive source of information. See above:

Mortgage Resources (Federal Reserve)
5 Tips For Avoiding Foreclosure Scams (Federal Reserve)
5 Tips For Protecting Your Home From Foreclosure (Federal Reserve)
Consumer Help (Federal Reserve)
Mortgage/Real Estate Resources (Federal Trade Commission)
Foreclosure Rescue Scams (Federal Trade Commission)
Mortgage Payments Sending You Reeling? Here's What To Do (Federal Trade Commission)
Consumer Protection (Federal Trade Commission)
HUD-Approved Housing Counseling Agencies (US Dep't of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)) or call 1-800-569-4287
Hope Now (mortgage industry alliance to assist consumers)

ham006:
As for AMERICA, 80% are insured and MOST of them ARE happy with their current insurance.

How can people be "happy" with something they may never have actually used? "Used" not meaning a few stitches, the flu or a sprained ankle, but "used" as in cancer, diabetes, tumors, missing limbs, brain injury, or coma. If you want to know how "happy" people are with their insurance - ANY insurance (home, life, auto, health) - you need to survey the people who have actually used their insurance.

Ask the guy who got ripped $10K because the doctors couldn't use a drug he would normally use during heart surgery because insured guy was allergic to it, and his insurance called the drug "experimental" and wouldn't cover it.

Ask the woman who had her privately paid for coverage pulled after 15 years because the insurance company found a blank spot in her vaccination records from kindergarten... which neither she nor her parents knew about.

Ask the parents of the kid dying from cancer due to toxic crap in the soil of the neighborhood where he grew up, which their insurance won't cover because there is an EPA lawsuit pending with the chemical plant upriver that has been putting the crap in the soil for the past 40 years.

btw, that 80% meme is bullsh*t.
Most Americans (59.3%) receive their health insurance coverage through an employer
Just less than 9% of the population purchases individual health care insurance.
Do the math.

Don't give me that bullsh*t about people being "happy" with their insurance. You have no idea how "happy" you are with anything until the time comes to use it.

Hope Now (mortgage industry alliance to assist consumers)

Protip: don't talk to industry-run consumer counseling groups. They are run for the benefit of (surprise!) the industry groups that run them. They're basically a last-ditch effort to get as much money out of you as possible. They use guilt and moral language to push desperate consumers away from options like bankruptcy that let them get out from under debt. They don't care if you're going to lose your house anyway -- they just want you to pay as much for it as possible before you face the truth. And they want you to feel it's the only right thing to do.

Here's the thing: no CEO or board of directors would treat their company the way they want you to treat your family. When a business is in trouble, management doesn't destroy the business by quixotically trying to pay off as much debt as possible. They play hardball. They offer creditors pennies on the dollar. They declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy if necessary. And they say, rightly, that it's part of the American way of business: it was written into law because it's often the best option for everybody. Shouldn't you protect your family with the same determination that a CEO protects his business? But that's not what industry-funded consumer debt groups tell individuals. They'll say, "We know you're an honest person, and we understand how important it is for your self-respect to pay off as much of this money as you can. Let's talk about how you can cut your expenses and send a big percentage of your paycheck to my industry bosses... I mean your creditors. You'll feel so much better and less guilty when most of your money... which is really theirs... is going straight to them every month."

My memory is a bit spotty maybe I only wished to hear or imagined I heard but I had thought that Obama had promised to help people who had suffered losses with the housing bubble. I know my home which we purchased in 2000 is worth less today than it was then. I would have liked to have had one of those float down programs I may have imagined where your mortgage dropped to 90% of CURRENT FMV and you got a fixed 2~5% interest rate with the provision when you sold you had to give 50%? Of the net profit of your sale back to the program.


However Obama either never had this program or never made the mortgage companies utilize it and why should they? Most of them are insured for full value with FHA etc. Contacting my Mortgage company (wells Fargo) resulted in them literally laughing at us. Calling the program people from Obama's website resulted them in suggesting we just not pay our bills (I ignored that advice) We borrowed the money to buy the house and We can and will pay for it...just a shame there is all this pork going around and this tax payer is ineligible mostly it seems because we live within our means and well we work. (50k a year family of 7)

Doem: one thing i notice about ads on AM radio. They are all geared for up-front fees. Gold,financial service ect., all looking for the quick upfront profit

Given the programming airing on a lot of AM radio, that's smart thinking. Businesses that depend on fleecing customers rely on a large pool of unthinking, unintelligent and gullible listeners. There's 3 of the 4 defining characteristics right there.

PROFIT!

To help pay for their medical bills, the couple refinanced their mortgage and cashed out some of the equity in their home, which Kevin said at one time was as much as $60,000.

To help pay for their medical bills

To help pay for their medical bills

To help pay for their medical bills

To help pay for their medical bills

rewind2846: Don't give me that bullsh*t about people being "happy" with their insurance. You have no idea how "happy" you are with anything until the time comes to use it.

THIS!

When someone tells me they're "happy" with their health insurance, I immediately know something about them: They've never had a major injury or illness that the insurance company either dropped them over, stonewalled them for months over, or wiggled their way out of paying.

In fact I'd bet that anyone "happy" with their health insurance has never had to put in a claim for over $5,000 and deal with the resulting hilarity.

bmr68: It's too bad the real Feds don't get involved until the victims are way too numerous.

Too bad? That's the way the system was designed, and it wasn't an accident.

Ficoce: You aren't getting it. My wife got care at cost. If it would have been free - then the taxpayers would have had to pay. The way it is, profit isn't a "right". They could have told me it cost $500 to have a nurse spend 5 minutes taking blood pressure and another 10 minutes for the doctor to take a look, but it didn't cost $500. The cost was $160 - total.

Oops, inflation - our local hospital charges $280 now for uninsured visits to the ER. Being a big city with lots of new immigrants, there are plenty of people paying cash, and that's the price.

Doombuggyman: moothemagiccow: turn off the box. call the station. tell them you're not watching anymore

Even better, write the producers of the show that has them as a sponsor and tell them you're not watching anymore.

If you're not a Nielsen home, they won't care.

If you are, they'll call your bluff.

Tip of the day... Just because it's got the word "Federal" in the title, does NOT mean that it's actually a government agency. Examples of this include the "Federal" loan people from the article, "Federal" Express transportation service, and the "Federal" Reserve Bank.

Meowsertd: My memory is a bit spotty maybe I only wished to hear or imagined I heard but I had thought that Obama had promised to help people who had suffered losses with the housing bubble. I know my home which we purchased in 2000 is worth less today than it was then. I would have liked to have had one of those float down programs I may have imagined where your mortgage dropped to 90% of CURRENT FMV and you got a fixed 2~5% interest rate with the provision when you sold you had to give 50%? Of the net profit of your sale back to the program.


However Obama either never had this program or never made the mortgage companies utilize it and why should they? Most of them are insured for full value with FHA etc. Contacting my Mortgage company (wells Fargo) resulted in them literally laughing at us. Calling the program people from Obama's website resulted them in suggesting we just not pay our bills (I ignored that advice) We borrowed the money to buy the house and We can and will pay for it...just a shame there is all this pork going around and this tax payer is ineligible mostly it seems because we live within our means and well we work. (50k a year family of 7)

I think I found part of your problem.

/having too many children is also living outside your means.
//it's not a clown car

Smiling in the picture accompanying an article on your dumb mistake doesn't pump up the sympathy meter with ol' Bob here.

I see this every day. People get with these consumer debt counseling services that tell them in a creditor calls or writes to not answer. Some even go so far as to take a limited power of attorney & then send the creditor a letter telling them to cease all contact with the customer. 9 times out of 10 we then hear nothing else from these services for several months eve though the customer has been steadily sending them funds each month.

Go with a local company. Call the local bankruptcy court to see who they send people for debt counseling. Call your creditors & never stop communicating with them. I am more likely to work out a much more favorable resolution with someone that is cooperative than someone who tells me to call their agency & then hangs up as their mortgage gets further & further behind. Make the calls to creditors yourself. There is nothing more any of the agencies can do that you can't do yourself so why pay. Business debts are not consumer debts & are not covered by the FDCA.

The only true protection against creditors is bankruptcy & that attorney telling you that you are protected just because you came to see him is wrong. There is no protection until your bankruptcy case is actually filed.

siromega: Pocket Ninja: But I've got to say that I've received some of these "mortgage modification" notices in the mail. The mailing looked pretty authentic--the company went all out to make it appear as if it were an actual government document.

A few weeks ago I got a letter from the "Property Tax Review Board". They wanted $189 to try and get my property taxes lowered. The property tax info they had on there was from 2 years ago when my house was worth twice what it is now, and they said they'd lower my taxes to what they are now. I knew it was fake, but it did make local TV (new window).

That's not necessarily fake, a friend of mine does that in the Dallas area, and his dad does it in Austin. Depending on your locale, property tax revisions are perfectly legal and can help save you money. Avoid anyone who offers to do it for a flat, upfront fee, though. Any reputable will take a commission or fee based on how much they save you; save nothing, pay nothing.

jdetweiler: Most of this is just sad, the only thing i want to make sure people know is the BBB is a scam. If you pay their money, you cant ever have a negative rating, if you dont, one complaint and you are unsatisfactory.

when the bbb guy came inot my company he said "we just want your money" our endorsement matters to those it matters to"

look up quicken loans on your bbb, they will have 1000's of complaints and be satisfactory...

check out www.ripoffreport.com for the real skinny on companies

The BBB is a scam.

However, ripoffreport.com is no better. They try to shake down companies that people have complained about.

FTFA: In February of that year, Kevin, who was 46 at the time, had a heart attack. He underwent quadruple bypass surgery the next month.

He had barely recovered when Denise was struck by a brain aneurysm in August of that year.

To help pay for their medical bills ...

What are these "medical bills" of which the article writes and which are capable of losing a couple their house? Oh yes, I remember. We used to have them in the UK before we decided that allowing the poor or the unlucky to die made neither moral nor economic sense and did something about it with the NHS. Nyaaaaaaaaaaah.