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(C|Net)   Having learned from Iran, the US Senate has proposed a bill that would give the President the authority to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" and "turn off the internet." What could possibly go wro   (news.cnet.com ) divider line
    More: Scary  
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10544 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2009 at 3:39 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



344 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2009-08-28 04:14:46 PM  

byzantinebobby: This is a setup to get 4chan labeled as terrorists.


They're not now??
 
2009-08-28 04:15:28 PM  

Mootwo: Shut down the major hubs and you've killed the internet. Last I checked there were like 8 major hubs in the U.S.

Hardly a difficult feat if you think about it.

Additionally, Obama has also mentioned putting the NSA in charge of "monitoring the public" on the internet. CYBERCOM is being stood up as a Navy command as we speak. More to come kiddies.


Source for NSA and Navy, please?
 
2009-08-28 04:17:05 PM  
..-. .- .-. -.- -.-- . .- ....!
 
2009-08-28 04:17:15 PM  

Mootwo: Shut down the major hubs and you've killed the internet. Last I checked there were like 8 major hubs in the U.S.


By "major hubs", are you referring to public exchanges? Most backbone interconnectivity is done with peering points, I do believe. I work for a major backbone, and we some peering in pretty much all of our pops, not just in "major hubs".
 
2009-08-28 04:19:10 PM  
zerografx.net

Ok, now that I have your attention, I'm going to post the same thing I posted on /. about this.

1. The original legislation was proposed back in April and hasn't gone anywhere. At this point I think it's just lacking supporters.

2. From the actual Bill:

(2) may declare a cybersecurity emergency and order the limitation or shutdown of Internet traffic to and from any compromised Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information system or network;

(5) shall direct the periodic mapping of Federal Government and United States critical infrastructure information systems or networks, and shall develop metrics to measure the effectiveness of the mapping process;

(6) may order the disconnection of any Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information systems or networks in the interest of national security"....

This meaning that basically any government related network such as national power grids, water plants. (Things that don't need to be accessible from the internet to begin with) will be under the control of the president during a time of an emergency.

This doesn't affect the (Internet) as a whole. The internet is not a central computer that sits in a government warehouse with an On/Off button. The internet is a protocol, not an object. Basically it is the collection of various servers and networking devices from all over the world.

You simple can't just "Turn it off" which is what many people are fearing.

So in short, if we the united states was under some kind of Cyber attack, the President could not turn off (Slashdot.org, digg.com, weather.com) but they could control the networks of those that are government related.

I still haven't read through the entire bill yet, but that seems to be the basic summary.

Basically Subby You fail.

deconstructingthoughts.mlblogs.com
 
2009-08-28 04:21:06 PM  
www.codemonkeyramblings.com

"Jay did whut?"
 
2009-08-28 04:21:31 PM  
Christ you Farkers are dumb. I saw a handful of posts where someone actually bothered to find out what the bill was all about before commenting. The rest of you are just moronic knee-jerk reaction jaackoffs.
 
2009-08-28 04:23:12 PM  

Drakin020: Ok, now that I have your attention


Hey dude. No fair posting that pic without telling me who it is. How the Hell do you expect me to do a GIS for more pics of her?
 
2009-08-28 04:24:19 PM  

Drakin020: Ok, now that I have your attention, I'm going to post the same thing I posted on /. about this.

1. The original legislation was proposed back in April and hasn't gone anywhere. At this point I think it's just lacking supporters.

2. From the actual Bill:

(2) may declare a cybersecurity emergency and order the limitation or shutdown of Internet traffic to and from any compromised Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information system or network;

(5) shall direct the periodic mapping of Federal Government and United States critical infrastructure information systems or networks, and shall develop metrics to measure the effectiveness of the mapping process;

(6) may order the disconnection of any Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information systems or networks in the interest of national security"....

This meaning that basically any government related network such as national power grids, water plants. (Things that don't need to be accessible from the internet to begin with) will be under the control of the president during a time of an emergency.

This doesn't affect the (Internet) as a whole. The internet is not a central computer that sits in a government warehouse with an On/Off button. The internet is a protocol, not an object. Basically it is the collection of various servers and networking devices from all over the world.

You simple can't just "Turn it off" which is what many people are fearing.

So in short, if we the united states was under some kind of Cyber attack, the President could not turn off (Slashdot.org, digg.com, weather.com) but they could control the networks of those that are government related.

I still haven't read through the entire bill yet, but that seems to be the basic summary.

Basically Subby You fail.


Stop quelling our outrage with BASELESS FACT. *shakes fist* How DARE you?!

By the way, if this would have been done under the Bush administration, I'm sure he would have been impeached immediately.
 
2009-08-28 04:24:22 PM  
Nice work there Hugo. Viva la revolution!
 
2009-08-28 04:24:25 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Drakin020: Ok, now that I have your attention

Hey dude. No fair posting that pic without telling me who it is. How the Hell do you expect me to do a GIS for more pics of her?


This.
 
2009-08-28 04:24:26 PM  
The elders of the internet would never let this happen...
 
2009-08-28 04:24:44 PM  

netweavr: Linux



that would be some much needed good news. oh sheeet, i just sided with Big Business. somebody shoot me!

its a really bad idea because it inserts a single point of failure into a system designed for redundancy by the DOD for use in time of War. want security? then secure the systems that are connected to the Internet. leave the frickin' Internet open and Free. i'm running a Linux linksys router firewall and a Linux box, so security is not a concern of mine.

any Congressman who signs this into law is a bona fide Dick.
 
2009-08-28 04:24:53 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Drakin020: Ok, now that I have your attention

Hey dude. No fair posting that pic without telling me who it is. How the Hell do you expect me to do a GIS for more pics of her?


Damnit your supposed to read the POST, NOT THE PICTURE!

/I dunno who it is
//Was posted in another thread.
///Source of the photo was here. http://zerografx.net/warp_backup/files4/
 
2009-08-28 04:25:30 PM  
Obama is making sure another Democrat gets in office for the next 40 years. Where's the outrage libs?
 
2009-08-28 04:26:07 PM  

bemis23: Christ you Farkers are dumb. I saw a handful of posts where someone actually bothered to find out what the bill was all about before commenting. The rest of you are just moronic knee-jerk reaction jaackoffs.


Hello, welcome to the internets. You must be new here. Would you like the affections of a "woman" to get you started, or would you prefer to just bring your super-serious attitude from real life to the digital world in all its boring glory?
 
2009-08-28 04:26:33 PM  

bemis23: Christ you Farkers are dumb. I saw a handful of posts where someone actually bothered to find out what the bill was all about before commenting. The rest of you are just moronic knee-jerk reaction jaackoffs.


That's what makes Fark such a charming place. What are you; new?
 
2009-08-28 04:27:23 PM  

El Chode: bemis23: Christ you Farkers are dumb. I saw a handful of posts where someone actually bothered to find out what the bill was all about before commenting. The rest of you are just moronic knee-jerk reaction jaackoffs.

Hello, welcome to the internets. You must be new here. Would you like the affections of a "woman" to get you started, or would you prefer to just bring your super-serious attitude from real life to the digital world in all its boring glory?


I read that as boning glory for some reason. Its Friday... Hey, here comes the beer cart!
 
2009-08-28 04:28:03 PM  
I don't think Congress understands how badly American businesses would be farked over if the entire Internet were down for even a day. It's not just online retailers like Amazon and eBay, who would lose millions, but every business in the country would be unable to send or receive e-mail, a now predominant form of communication.

Imagine how many important documents would be missed, how many invoices and payments would be delayed, how many crucial project deadlines would be unmet. I can see millions of business people going apeshiat crazy if the gov't shut the Internet down.
 
2009-08-28 04:29:16 PM  
Dems are going to unite hackers/crackers like never before.

Anyone else looking forward to the Anonymous vs. Obama cyber-war that's sure to begin soon?

/grabs popcorn
//this is going to be fun...
 
2009-08-28 04:29:55 PM  
They would never dream of turning off TV cause it's what the ruling class has always wanted.

A medium completely controlled by rich people.
 
2009-08-28 04:30:49 PM  
I sure hope they don't put the "Shut off the Internet" button right next to the "Launch Nuclear War" button. I'd sure hate for Obama to press the wrong one...
 
2009-08-28 04:30:59 PM  

Drakin020: This meaning that basically any government related network such as national power grids, water plants. (Things that don't need to be accessible from the internet to begin with) will be under the control of the president during a time of an emergency.


Of course, this also depends on what they define as "critical infrastructure".

Is it out of the question for the government to define internet backbone providers, telephone infrastructure, etc. as "critical infrastructure", and then require that operators of such infrastructure obey certain legal requirements?

While the bill may or may not be a huge deal now, remember that laws always seem to suffer from "function creep" and that this law, like others, could be misused by a future government with nefarious motives.
 
2009-08-28 04:31:43 PM  

Some Texan: This will never happen. By doing that, at the very least you would be censoring free speech. It would be like stopping all television broadcasts or newspaper deliveries. Sure, he may have the power, but it will never be wielded.


Never?

Ask this guy:

blogs.discovermagazine.com

He sure didn't have a problem shutting down newspapers.
 
2009-08-28 04:32:26 PM  

letstakeawalk: Some Texan: This will never happen. By doing that, at the very least you would be censoring free speech. It would be like stopping all television broadcasts or newspaper deliveries. Sure, he may have the power, but it will never be wielded.

Never?

Ask this guy:

He sure didn't have a problem shutting down newspapers.


Effin' Republicans.
 
2009-08-28 04:32:32 PM  

Epsilon: I don't think Congress understands how badly American businesses would be farked over if the entire Internet were down for even a day. It's not just online retailers like Amazon and eBay, who would lose millions, but every business in the country would be unable to send or receive e-mail, a now predominant form of communication.

Imagine how many important documents would be missed, how many invoices and payments would be delayed, how many crucial project deadlines would be unmet. I can see millions of business people going apeshiat crazy if the gov't shut the Internet down.


Sounds like a nice day off, actually. Then again, I often fantasize about what would happen if there were a huge electromagnetic pulse thing go off and all our toys were turned to worthless ruble. I think it would make for a great movie...
 
2009-08-28 04:32:35 PM  
FTFA - The new version would allow the president to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" relating to "non-governmental" computer networks and do what's necessary to respond to the threat. Other sections of the proposal include a federal certification program for "cybersecurity professionals," and a requirement that certain computer systems and networks in the private sector be managed by people who have been awarded that license.

This reminds me of what happened to the phones on 9/11. I was calling some people (maybe to calm myself down?) and I tried getting a hold of friends in England. I forget exactly what the automated message said, but the gist was transatlantic calls were not happening. I assume this was done to keep any bad guys on the ground from easily contacting someone outside the country.

Dunno if the proposed bill in TFA includes this kind of emergency shut down (only skimmed the article), but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
2009-08-28 04:34:32 PM  
Abe Lincoln was a bastard...I know. farking Illinois swamp rat. Was that a bit harsh?
 
2009-08-28 04:35:12 PM  

Nightjars: Everybody had better brush up on their Morse code..


Most people are barely bright enough to check their email. Imagine how many people would die from sticking their hand in a spark transmitter.

Sounds like a good idea really.
 
2009-08-28 04:35:33 PM  

UncleCal: "Jay did whut?"


i'll raise your presidential facepalm with the pope facepalming a precedent.
iansouter.com
 
2009-08-28 04:36:24 PM  
img19.imageshack.us

Nobody is shutting down anything till you beat this guy.
 
2009-08-28 04:37:25 PM  
If we had this ability a few years ago, Skynet never would have taken over every computer network in the world and launched all our nukes against us! It was CLEARLY Bush's fault.
 
2009-08-28 04:38:36 PM  

letstakeawalk: Some Texan: This will never happen. By doing that, at the very least you would be censoring free speech. It would be like stopping all television broadcasts or newspaper deliveries. Sure, he may have the power, but it will never be wielded.

Never?

Ask this guy:

He sure didn't have a problem shutting down newspapers.


Yeah he also invaded his own country and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths to preserve an ideal that half the country didn't subscribe to. Real yardstick of freedom, that one.
 
2009-08-28 04:39:28 PM  

byss: The elders of the internet would never let this happen...


He who controls the backbone, controls the internet.

I'm assuming these 'elders' are the first to use IRC or something? Yeah, they got nothing.
 
2009-08-28 04:40:11 PM  

Faith Logic Passion: Carotid: Next up: president has the power to shut off our air supply

/probably equally as hard as shutting down the web
//how do you shut down a series of tubes anyway?

You forget...who provides 99.9% of our access to the internet? Corporations such as AT&T, Verizon, and AOL. How does the government shut it down? Order the companies to cut off access to all their customers and employees.

It's that simple to cut off everyone but the professional cracker...


And that's why the law is such a joke - its intent is to protect against the professional, but at most it will only slow down the determined attacker while destroying the civil liberties of millions.

Fark everyone in D.C. Fark em in the ear.

/ban guns and drugs while you're at it!
//worthless pandering farks
 
2009-08-28 04:40:20 PM  

D_Moran: Take away my internet? From my warm, sticky hands...


I lol'd
 
2009-08-28 04:41:11 PM  
img26.imageshack.us
 
2009-08-28 04:41:23 PM  
mod3072:
www.joeydevilla.com
You don't need a switch. Just send in a young jew to unplug it.

img30.imageshack.us
I thought the episode would have worked a little better with an enormous paper clip.
A quest for a paper clip big enough to reset the world.
 
2009-08-28 04:41:24 PM  

CaesarSneezy: letstakeawalk: Some Texan: This will never happen. By doing that, at the very least you would be censoring free speech. It would be like stopping all television broadcasts or newspaper deliveries. Sure, he may have the power, but it will never be wielded.

Never?

Ask this guy:

He sure didn't have a problem shutting down newspapers.

Yeah he also invaded his own country and caused hundreds of thousands of deaths to preserve an ideal that half the country didn't subscribe to. Real yardstick of freedom, that one.


maybe half the country was being retarded
 
2009-08-28 04:41:55 PM  
Drakin020:

zerografx.net

Ok, now that I have your attention . . .

Holy cow! Who is that. She's actually cute.
 
2009-08-28 04:41:55 PM  
How many of the root servers are currently on US soil/controlled by US entities?

Don't you have to pull like 7 of them offline to get the internet to stop working? I could be wrong, and I'm sure I'm working off older info here...
 
2009-08-28 04:42:10 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: He who controls the backbone, controls the internet.

I'm assuming these 'elders' are the first to use IRC or something? Yeah, they got nothing.


It was actually a reference to "The IT Crowd". Series 3, Episode 4.
 
2009-08-28 04:43:15 PM  
I would've sworn, prior to his election, that Barack Obama was not, in fact, a retard. Now I'm not so sure.
 
2009-08-28 04:43:51 PM  

vernonFL: byzantinebobby: This is a setup to get 4chan labeled as terrorists.

They're not now??


In the same way bowlers are "athletes".
 
2009-08-28 04:44:59 PM  
(6) may order the disconnection of any Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information systems or networks in the interest of national security"....

Yes, they are doing this to protect the governmental servers, which is a wise move...

This could be interpreted to mean as any public network that may be critical in their view, private or public.

i.e. "Your site poses a risk to the government and we are shutting it down." Sounds like Homeland security language?

Yes, disconnection means disconnection.
 
2009-08-28 04:46:26 PM  

El Chode: Nabb1: How about "Presidential Internet Kill Switch"?

Almost, but it needs more poor taste. Maybe like "Presidential Internet Final Solution"


With this president's stance on Israel this name seems about right.
 
2009-08-28 04:47:29 PM  

mongbiohazard: How many of the root servers are currently on US soil/controlled by US entities?


A few, but not a majority, I think. See here for details.

Don't you have to pull like 7 of them offline to get the internet to stop working? I could be wrong, and I'm sure I'm working off older info here...

Doubt it. There's just under 200 actual root servers out there. While I doubt that a single one could manage to keep up with load (which is mostly malformed requests), I'm sure that even a minority of root servers could keep up with traffic for a while.
 
2009-08-28 04:49:36 PM  
I thought putting Democrats in charge of everything was going to prevent stuff like this.
 
2009-08-28 04:49:43 PM  
I can't wait to see what XKCD makes of this.
 
2009-08-28 04:51:23 PM  

jjorsett: I thought putting Democrats in charge of everything was going to prevent stuff like this.


Both major parties are very much "like this." In 2012 it'll be "vote for the GOP, not for those Big Brother types" and people will actually believe them.
 
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