This is a time when you NEED spiritual guidance.

Athiests need God.

We are going to war and will have to hurt and kill a bunch of people. We probably don't need to blame it on god.

This is a huge joke. Ask youself if, at this time the suprem court is ansewering motions such as this. Now ask yourself if at a time like this if the ACLU would be making motions like this. SHAME on the people like this to use this incident to andvance their own hatred on groups here at home.

This article took the words right out of my mouth. I'm sick of hearing Bush telling me to pray, and reciting lines from a book I don't even believe in.

We don't need God. We don't need any religion. Religion is a crutch.

'Prayer had its chance on September 11, and it failed.'

Kiss my ass..

I am non-religious but I hope that these people don't claim to represent me. They sound alot like the 700Club in reverse. Ick....

I don't think anyone "needs" spiritual guidence, as kukuman says, it is a crutch. We all (even athiests) have had to deal with alot this week. Some of us can look to our friends and family and within ourselves without relying on the easter bunny, santa claus, or god. This is kind of harsh for those who have to have "spiritual guidence", but it is true.

Sorry that last post should have been on the story below.

Stand behind our leadership or get in line to get your ass whipped by us... either way it makes no difference to me.

I don't want to hear another farking word about how someone thinks the President "should" act about this.

I resent Bush's calling for a national prayer day. I think this article's point is appropriate to raise even when the nation is in mourning. I may even join this organization.

Prayer had its chance on September 11, and it failed.

Bah! This just shows their misunderstanding of what prayer is. How can a person who doesn't believe in God know what prayer is.

Kukuman: He's not telling you to pray, he is suggesting that you do it. He is not forcing religion upon you, he is just reminding those who choose to be religious that God is there waiting to hear from us.
We don't need God. I'd like to see you say that when you meet Him. heh

Religion, if understood and practiced correctly is absolutely and unequivocally not a crutch.

Bush came out against that idiot falwell, I may well think that Bush is (whisper, not too bright) but he is after all our president.

God may well exist, but we are going to hurt and kill people, we should not do this in god's name. We should say, it needs to be done, do it and then get over it.

Remember, if you hear a voice in your head it just might not be God. Most of the time it indicates insanity.

everything is in god's divine plan, right? and glory be to god for all good that happens, because god is in control.

the aboce are direct quotes from lay ppl as well as clergy. I have heard it time and time again. so why doesn't god get credit (blame) for the WTCs? after all, it was in HIS divine plan. HE had control. oh wait, that's right - there is a lesson in this from god. and he has called his children home to a better place.

in applying the smallest bit of logic, we necessarily conclude that god teaches lessons by killing innocent ppl. simple. and the only argument against this logic is a circular argument. please. like the writer said, prayer failed miserably Tuesday morning.

you can HAVE your god. besides, my Goddess gave birth to your god.

and the prez, in his official capacity, should not show preference to any particular religion. not exactly an establishment of a state religion, but damn sure an endorsement. at a time when our freedom is threatened, we need a leader who will uphold his oath to the constitution - ALL of it.

Can we please not turn this tragedy into a religious debate? Some people (including our president, who happens to be a Christian) will want to pray. If you don't want to, then don't, but try to have some respect for others. Please?

Old Saying: "There are no Athiests in foxholes"

God is for the unimaginative and those afraid to ponder existence because of it's potential to prove one's self inconsequential.

You don't have to be a silly fundie to have bad taste it would seem.

There was another quote that said something like "Anyone who says there are no atheists in foxholes has never been in a foxhole."

Triplenine: Ditto.

I'm tired of idiots like Falwell and these morons trying to tell me what to think. If people want to pray, let them pray. If they don't, that's their choice.

How about this one, which seems to sum up this post and all of the ‘my parents couldn’t make me go to church and neither can you wining’: “Great minds may think alike, but fools seldom differ.”

Spirituality is like energy. It is neither good nor bad, it's what you do with it that matters.

Use it to justify murder = bad
Use it to strengthen goodwill = good
use it to enslave minds = bad
use it to inspire personal growth = good

etc.

I fully agree with you MysticJackal. Now is a time for reflection, mourning, anger and for some, including myself, prayer. It is not the time to separate ourselves by religion, race or creed. Our country needs as much unity as possible at this point.

You can tell these people are fanatics, because they go out and join an organization devoted to not having a religion and being an atheist.

Foos, there's alway going to be someone trying to tell you what to think, regardless if that person is religious or not. It comes down to the inargueable (sp?) fact that someone elses opinion is not going to change your mind and your opinion isn't going to change theirs.
I object to petty bullshiat like this article at a time when there is so much death and grief all around me. This article offends me more than someone praying or asking for my prayers, whether I believe in God or not.

Machtyn:

"We don't need God. I'd like to see you say that when you meet Him. heh"


Is he holding court somewhere? Cause I got some questions.

If you don't want to do it, don't do it. I have no problem with those who choose not to pray, nor with those who do. I pray for the victims and their families, and for everyone involved, and it gives me comfort. I don't do it to change anything, I don't think bad things are going to happen if I don't pray, and I walked out in the middle of a special mass ceremony because it was just too damned religious for me (Catholics freak me out). I don't belong to any organized religion, disagree strongly with most of Christianity, and take every opportunity to mock and poke fun at religion. Still, I believe in God, and I pray. Not because anybody tells me to, but because I want to.

FrankSinatra:
Old Saying: "There are no Athiests in foxholes"

I read that to mean that fear is the driving factor behind religious belief. just proves MY point..

MysticJackal:

the prez can worship as he wishes, and can make it known what he believes. he should NOT endorse one religion over another.

also, how respectful is ND of P to non-christians? do not ask for that which you are not willing to give.

and by the way, I once used the argument that a small mind is not one that believes in an omnipotent, omniscient entity, but one that CAN NOT comprehend such a being. I still believe that, but I am now convinced that IF there is such a force, it certainly does not fall within the parameters of the christian definiton of god..

Doesn't anyone READ the articles before commenting?

The ACLU posted their petition two weeks ago. It had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks. It was in response to a manditory moment of silence in Virginia schools to allow students to pray in silence rather than a school led prayer.

The purpose of the separation of church and state is not to deny religion but rather to counter state sponsored religion. It is there to protect everyone, not just the local religious majority.

I think that the people who "thank god" that they're safe are performing the utmost of tastelessness. What of the thousands who AREN'T safe? Did they thank god?

People should concentrate on helping the dying, and healing the wounded, rather than bringing religion into it.

Casimir:
Good point, wrong thread.

Good night fellow farkers, I am going home and drink myself into insensiblity. (but I do that everynight)

Crowell29a: also, how respectful is ND of P to non-christians?

Well, I'm a non-Christian. I was born a non-Christian. None of my ancestors were Christians. I have about zero belief in the Christian religion. But I'm not offended. In fact, I support it. Why? Because, whether you recognize it or not, it's something that a lot of people need. It may seem "close-minded" but it's an integral part of their lives.

The United States supports Christianity, that's true, but it doesn't mean that they are opposed to other religions, or even atheism. If you reject something just because it's Christian, you're being just as close-minded as they are.

I am not a religious person. No, I'm far from it. Been there, done that, you gotta be kiddin' me.

But I do find a lot of blind humor in that news article. The orginizaton that posted it, has criticized Bush for calling on all people to pray. By their very criticism and denouncing it, they are calling on people to support the views of THEIR orginization, instead, as being the CORRECT view. ha.

These farks and farks like Robertson and Fallwel have chosen a nice time to forward their own propaganda, there's one thing they need to do and that is to SHUT THE fark UP.

Bush didn't say it's a national Christians only can pray day, it's a national remembrance and prayer day, whatever that means to you. And if you don't want to pray, then that's your own business, there's nobody forcing you to pray by holding a gun to your head. Btw, if you're only 18% of the population, then you're a small minority, and if a decision is made with the majority of the country in mind, well, too bad, that's how it is.

This country was founded on God and the principals of the Bible. If you have such a problem with it then move to a country that supports a religion or lack of one, that matches your beliefs. I do not hear anyone complaining about making or spending that "religious" American money with "In God We Trust" written on it.

Crimson King: Bravo

just like the Alcoholics Anonymous 'religion'

I 'lost' a good friend to them. Yeah, he stopped drinking, but now I never see him because of all the meetings he attends non-stop.

Crimson King, what is wrong with joining an organization? Making a broad generalization about atheists is a pretty stupid thing to do if you ask me. Atheist organizations are there to help support and bind people and so they have some pull in the government. You don't call people who go to church fanatics do you? I thought not. Atheists just don't worship anything at their meetings.

Saton: This country was founded on God and the principals of the Bible.

No, it was founded on the principles set forth by the 5 Nations, bastardized somewhat, and twisted to favor rich, white men.

Saton: If you have such a problem with it then move to a country that supports a religion or lack of one, that matches your beliefs. I do not hear anyone complaining about making or spending that "religious" American money with "In God We Trust" written on it.


Had no choice with the money, and I love this country. But don't kid yourself into thinking this place was formed for and by anything but well-meaning rich honkeys.

It is the best of places, but still....

MysticJackal:

I support christianity in the spirit of free belief. I do not wish to see it go away, necessarily. it would be nice it its practitioners would examine their beliefs a bit more closely, understanding the logical implications of such, tho.

I feel just as strongly that W is being completely disrespectful to non-christians. again, it isn't his place to endorse a religion, but I have no problem if he expresses his personal sentiments on the subject. do not instruct the country to do so.

and that is as close to a level playing field as we can get. logic will lead to absurdity if you follow the path Batcar01 suggests..

Like I said BigDaddyOnDaMike if you have a problem that this country was "formed for and by anything but well-meaning rich honkeys. " Then move your butt to Africa and grab a spear.

Falwell should have kept his mouth shut and so should this athiest who, like most athiests, no doubt spends most of his time trying to force others to shut up.

This counrty wasnt founded on the principals of the bible. If you were to do any sort of free thinking you would find that almost any and every religion have very similar beliefs. The bible is just a compalation of verious universial truths. Try and see the similarites between the ten commandments and the code of Hammerabi(sp),which was written earlier, and you might understand that the bible is closer to a Readers Digest than it is to gods word. If the end to all arguments(and you will hear it often in the next few days if you have any kind of objection with the govt.) is to LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT we have truly been bowed by this action.

Saton, dude..

ummm, your ignorance is showing terribly. sounds like you have a problem accepting fact. fact is, we murdered, pillaged and raped our way into owning this country. go talk to a native american.

ahhh, but how you embody and uphold the American spirit in upholding the freedom of expression - freedom even for those who disagree with you. /sarcasm

Crowell: Bush did not "instruct" people to pray to the Christian god. He didn't instruct people to pray at all. It was merely, as Machtyn said, a suggestion.

BTW, how does an expression of his personal sentiment differ from an endorsement?

I say put this fella in a foxhole for a month or two.

ok, so he declared a Natinal Day of Prayer. what about the atheists? splitting hairs in terminology changes nothing.

personal expressions of sentiment make not National Days of Prayer.

what part don't we understand?

I guess it's OK to disrespect other ppl if it makes most of us feel better, huh? I have higher expectations for my country than that..

Saton, there are several petitions to remove the god phrases from our money. And if you examine some money you may find it blacked out(that's not illegal BTW and I don't do it because I have a life). Those sayings weren't added until the 50's anyway.

Terrorists - Americans deserve it because they are godless rich men.

Jeryy Falwell - Americans deserve it because they are godless rich men.

Crowell: what part don't we understand?

Just this: Why are you offended by other people praying? Do you feel the president is not addressing your needs at this particular time? And if so, exactly what needs are you refering to?

......right on