Oh sure NOW you tell me.

BillDozer357: Never been to Paris have you?

I went to Paris a few years back and was being treated fairly rudely by a waiter. Then I realized he was treating the non Parisian Frenchmen at the table next to mine with equal disdain, and I felt much better about the whole situation.

Seriously though, try to speak French to the Parisians and they're 10 times more understanding. Don't speak English until they do (they will) and you're good.

Want to pay 30 Euros for a meal? Move to Switzerland.

elchip: TheRedMonkey: Also they have the population of California and the land mass of New York and everyone is pretty homogeneous there.

They have 1/5 the population of California, 1/3 the size of New York, and they speak 3 different languages... so, you're like, triply wrong.

By "homogeneous", he meant "white".

jst3p: TMBGfreak:
/Except Paris
//They hate American
///They also hate the French
////They just hate

Sounds like New York. And Jersey. And Philly. And Boston....

And Portland, OR

/ Our hate is mostly reserved for Southern Californians.

sigdiamond2000: Pxtl: This.

Is it me, or is the fundamental argument against universal healthcare in the United States "because we suck"?

Heh. I also love the excuses for the low infant mortality rate in the US being catapulted by the right wing blogodome - basically that the teenagers who are having all of our children are all disguting fatbodies.

America! F*ck yeah!

Yeah, I mean who would want to settle for the sixth best standard of living on the globe?

Link (new window)

ThrobblefootSpectre:

It actually angers you that the U.S. helped tsunami victims, doesn't it?

Not at all. As a matter of fact I'm proud of the fact that the US sent over 4000 tons of supplies, 15,000 troops, one aircraft carrier battle group(USS Abe Lincoln) and a hospital ship to the area to help out after that disaster.

I just call bullshiat on the oversimplification in that lame story. The carrier was sent for it's compliment of men, not for it's cafeterias.

Thanks for trying.

And don't forget the chocolate.

Diogenes: Yes, but not as much as I've seen in some recipes. And Kirsch is absolutely required. Send me an email to my embarq (in profile) and I'll send the recipe back to you.

She also used to just put out a wheel of Raclette next to the fire in the fireplace, then put out bowls of pickles, bread, veggies, and boiled potatoes for dipping right from the melting cheese. Poor man's fondue, I guess.

Sent.

And Raclette is awesome, there are times I just can't get enough of it.

wydok: And don't forget the chocolate.

And seizing the assets of criminal organizations that try to hide their funds there.

/It's not from skiing and chocolate

It's time, it's time, it's time to hate the Swiss!

/obscure?

Hogwash through and through.

Switzerland does indeed pay high wages---but since the cost of living is among the highest in the world, you don't really gain anything. There are no slums, not that I have ever seen---but a 1-room flat is likely to run you $3000 a month in a cheap neighborhood. Dinner at a medium-priced restaurant is apt to cost $40+.

Taxes are reckoned by rental for foreigners, so if you pay $3k rent, your taxes are 7 months' rent, or $21K per year to be allowed to live there.

NOW you have your apartment and your residency permit, so now you can go looking for work. I wish you lots of luck in that department, the locals already have all the good jobs; unless you have outside income, you are likely to starve to death.

Nevertheless, Switzerland is a great place to visit, I heartily recommend it to anyone who can afford it.

TMBGfreak: Spam Pajamas: A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: 'Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?'

Okay, so it's some dumb nationalist email forward. What I don't get is why that's particularly anti French. I don't get the whole anti-France thing in general, though. Spent some time there and met one guy who was annoyed about me being American, but that's because I was hitting on a woman he was interested and playing the foreign guy card. Lot's of people would just come up to me and have me help them with their English. All in all, very nice place and the America hater stereotype seems to be largely a creation of Americans.

/Except Paris
//They hate American
///They also hate the French
////They just hate

Why is against the French? I dunno. Maybe it actually happened just that way. More than likely it's just the whole "French are pussies so we're going to rename French Fries to Freedon Fries" people who started it. I personally don't have anything against anybody. Well, Muslims, Mormons, Southerners, and women are pretty crazy in general but that's about it. :)

The Onanist: Diogenes: I was told when I stepped off the train in Milan, Italy that it was totally acceptable to hit gypsies - even the gypsy kids.

Sweet. I'll be in Milan in a month.

Say hello to Rochelle.

elchip: RobertBruce: Everything is expensive as hell there, but it's a great country. I'd move there if it was ever made to be an easy process.

Although, adjusted for differences in cost of living, the average Swiss income is apparently only about $2,000 less than the average American income.

I visited Geneva briefly in 2003. It was like a little slice of heaven...

But you know, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

hey don't forget the swiss army knife!

Spam Pajamas: 'We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?'

One, by the way, the Charles De Gaulle. (Although it is significantly smaller than a Nimitz class carrier.)

Coke Lite is different that Diet Coke. Tastes completely different/better. I loves me some Coke Lite.

Good luck in trying to move to Switzerland if you're not already a citizen. About the only sure fire way to do so is to marry someone who is a citizen.

Bad_Seed: Pxtl: sigdiamond2000: We can't be like Switzerland because we're too muticultural, stupid, fat, and lazy.

This.

Is it me, or is the fundamental argument against universal healthcare in the United States "because we suck"?

American Exceptionalism: Being the only rich country in the world unable to provide healthcare for its people

I think Alexis deToqueville said that originally ;)

basicstock: I have travelled a few places in the world and by far, the Swiss are the rudest people I have encountered.

They are pretty xenophobic and snooty from my experience. They want tourist money without the tourists.

/got told that "We are closed" in a grocery store in Switzerland when many people were in it shopping

cry0fan:
So, let's end the fed govt's dominion over the states,
and divide the states up into different areas for the
different races, and send the immigrants back home.

problem solved.

Problem NOT solved.

I get really really tired of these simpletons who just think trucking a bunch of people across the border will solve the whole illegal immigration situation. Think for just a second, if you can, and answer this question... WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE HERE?

The non-FoxNews answer is: THEY ARE HERE FOR JOBS.

The next logical question which needs to be asked is: HOW DO WE GET THEM TO LEAVE?

The obvious also-non-FoxNews answer is: THEY WILL LEAVE WHEN THERE ARE NO JOBS.

It's so simple, so effective and so non-racist that those folks who love to heap scorn on the the brown folks for simply trying to feed their families just can't wrap their tiny little minds around it. If you're here illegally, you don't get hired. If you hire someone illegally, you get harshly punished. Simple.

One more time, for those way back in the cheap seats:
Illegal immigrants are here because the people who make money from their cheap labor (overwhelmingly white american citizens) want them here, and will influence the law and lawmakers to continue to profit from this labor source. This needs to end.

If you want to solve the illegal immigration problem, you attack the cause, not the symptom.

lives in geneva..kick...replies etc

Jakevol2: I think Alexis deToqueville said that originally ;)

What DIDN'T he say? Jesus... I swear he's the only guy to ever comment on the nature of the US.

ne2d: FlashHarry: so it IS possible.

Yeah, if everybody's white educated.

This is why it will never happen here.

PurplePimpSaber: ne2d: FlashHarry: so it IS possible.

Yeah, if everybody's white.

Boy, you're a winner, aren't you?

According to the CIA world factbook (pops) he is most likely right.
German 65%, French 18%, Italian 10%, Romansch 1%, other 6%

I am sorry... I lied. The link doesn't pop.

This is the BEST PART of the entire story...

"With its extremely high gross wages and comparatively low tax rates, Switzerland is a very employee-friendly country," the Swiss bank said in a statement.


See, LOW TAXES are the best way to attract BUSINESS.

But Swedish taxes aren't low and is one of the most highly taxes countries out there. Fail?

DYXautic: But Swedish taxes aren't low and is one of the most highly taxes countries out there. Fail?

Hi.

Swiss =/= Sweden.

Swiss = Switzerland.

Thanks for playing though.

DYXautic: But Swedish taxes aren't low and is one of the most highly taxes countries out there. Fail?

Not only that, but Swaziland is in Southern Africa. What American in their right mind would want to move there?

"This is the BEST PART of the entire story...

"With its extremely high gross wages and comparatively low tax rates, Switzerland is a very employee-friendly country," the Swiss bank said in a statement.


See, LOW TAXES are the best way to attract BUSINESS."

No... the important word is "comparatively". There are many countries out there with far lower taxes than Switzerland. Its a balance, and those taxes actually pay for useful things like HEALTH CARE and good education. Just saying "we have low taxes" isn't even that enticing to good business... since whats the point of not paying taxes if your workforce is under-educated and sick?

Hetfield: basicstock: I have travelled a few places in the world and by far, the Swiss are the rudest people I have encountered.

That doesn't match my experience at all. In general, I've known them to be a bit uptight and reserved at worst, but on the whole they are polite and civilized.

The Swiss are rude when you are not playing by the rules.
The Swiss will also berate you for flushing your toilet after 10 PM. Really! It's quite reserved and you are expected to behave. That's what makes it a nice, clean, boring place to live.
It's a society, a socialist society and you are expected to contribute without causing too much fuss.
If you love the outdoors and music it's great. but it's very quiet.

The Swiss spend a lot less time in public schooling.


/john taylor gatto

SlothB77: Hetfield: The Swiss military is kinda supergay. Also, they actually work for another country. Confusing, but fabulous.

holy crap those are bad.

as a skier, i think switzerland would be great. all those mountains. but i hate cold and i don't like a whole lot of snow, so it would be more of a visit, ski, get out.

As a skier you don't like a whole lot of snow and hate the cold?

They have boats for that kind of skiing.

rewind2846: cry0fan:
So, let's end the fed govt's dominion over the states,
and divide the states up into different areas for the
different races, and send the immigrants back home.

problem solved.

Problem NOT solved.

I get really really tired of these simpletons who just think trucking a bunch of people across the border will solve the whole illegal immigration situation. Think for just a second, if you can, and answer this question... WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE HERE?

The non-FoxNews answer is: THEY ARE HERE FOR JOBS.

The next logical question which needs to be asked is: HOW DO WE GET THEM TO LEAVE?

The obvious also-non-FoxNews answer is: THEY WILL LEAVE WHEN THERE ARE NO JOBS.

It's so simple, so effective and so non-racist that those folks who love to heap scorn on the the brown folks for simply trying to feed their families just can't wrap their tiny little minds around it. If you're here illegally, you don't get hired. If you hire someone illegally, you get harshly punished. Simple.

One more time, for those way back in the cheap seats:
Illegal immigrants are here because the people who make money from their cheap labor (overwhelmingly white american citizens) want them here, and will influence the law and lawmakers to continue to profit from this labor source. This needs to end.

If you want to solve the illegal immigration problem, you attack the cause, not the symptom.



You are both half right.

How about we enforce both existing employment eligibility laws and existing immigration laws? There's no rational reason (despite hysterical sounding posts with lots of caps) to ignore one set of laws in favor of the other.

There now, see? You two can play nice together. :-)

Your country can get really rich by offering anonymous banking to wealthy American tax evaders and ex-Nazis.

I should have been born in Switzerland. They do almost everything right except conscript their young men into the military. I still have fantasies about leaving the US to go live in that place, never to return. It makes me sad to know that it will never happen.

slepygryhnd: he first doctor looked at the supposedffffly autistic son and said "he's not autistic. . .he needs some different discipline and they need to challenge him in school."

Oh come on.... that's downright conspiracy theory there! That would mean autism is thrown out as the reason too often for fun, profit, and laziness! dumbed down schools, federal money for kids with conditions, drug profits, and so on...

And leaving the US ain't so easy... with the IRS demanding its slice no matter where you go and all those proposed 'leaving the USA taxes'. (did any of those pass??)

Meh I live in New Zealand, just as peaceful, less uptight.

Bad_Seed: American Exceptionalism: Being the only rich country in the world unable to provide healthcare for its people

Except we provide it to everyone elses people except ours. Go into an emergency room and yell "migra! migra!" and watch the stampede.

p51d007: See, LOW TAXES are the best way to attract BUSINESS.

Gotta reduce spending to lower taxes long-term; Republicans have always brushed that bit aside. Tax-cutter Bush grew government, even the non-defense part.

Moreover, businesses in the U.S. generally have the overhead of providing health care for employees. My employer doesn't hire anyone to help me get groceries, or buy a house, or buy a car -- but almost every business has to have one or more HR people working a significant amount of time dealing with health insurance.

- a 1-room flat is likely to run you $3000 a month in a cheap neighborhood.

- Taxes are reckoned by rental for foreigners, so if you pay $3k rent, your taxes are 7 months' rent, or $21K per year to be allowed to live there.

-NOW you have your apartment and your residency permit, so now you can go looking for work.


Man, you are SO wrong, you've got to be trolling - it's quite obvious you've never lived here. If you paid that much for an apartment it was either in the middle of Zürich overlooking the lake, or you're a sucker. One's taxes are based on your income and your net worth, whether you're a foreigner or not. And you can't even move here unless you have a job first - unless you are seeking political asylum but they are finally cracking down on that and booting out the freeloaders. Hear that, my fellow Americans, 'booting out the freeloaders'?

As someone whose ancestors moved here(US) from Leuggern (Aargau) in the 1860's, I'm getting a kick outof these replies.

I heard a quote about the role of war in technology development. "Look at the Swiss...500 years of peace and what have they contributed? Chocolate and clocks." Anybody know the source?

A lot of rumors here.

First, over 95% of people here in Switzerland rent. The apartments are tiny compared to what you would get in the US with a house, so that is not so good.
The public transport is excellent, no need to own a car and everyone has health care. This is mandatory private care, but it adds up (100/child 250-600 per adult/month for basic care). Salaries are high, and taxes low, the minimum wage is around $4000 per month even for the garbage boy at McDonalds which is why eating out is really expensive. There is also a national pension scheme, and if your employer fails to pay, it is a criminal offense, not some slap on the wrist white collar crime like in the US. So everyone also has a pension, plus other products (they call it the three pillars, mandatory pension, optional pension, and their version of 401k). Another good thing is by law you have 5 weeks paid vacation.
Talking about Doctors, most doctors own their own practices and malpractice lawsuits are not allowed. They do take it seriously though, and MDs can easily be banned for life from practicing if they make a serious mistake. Having said that, MDs can make a really good living here, plus be their own boss and the insurance companies are checked by the government insurance agency which can and does override the insurance companies decisions if they don't follow the rules.
For unemployment, you have the right to almost your entire salary for two years, but you are required to apply for jobs and an unemployment agent is assigned to you to make sure you are trying to get back to work, and if you cheat or fail to follow the rules you are dropped out of the program.
The other great thing is the work contract system. If you work for someone, you get a contract like a major league player. If the company wants to shed employees in February to make the share holders happy, they must by law pay out the rest of your contract (10 months salary on a 1 year contract). So the income security for everyone is really great.
One of the reasons why rents can be high (I pay less than 2k/month for a 3 BR apartment in a quiet family area) is that the zoning laws would make Sarah Palin's head explode. Geneva is a city, but it is also a Canton or state. A large portion is zoned for agriculture despite the fact that this activity is absurd from an economic POV.
The bottom line is in CH you live in a much smaller space, but you don't need a car and you get a lot of financial security and 5 weeks vacation. Pre-school is expensive, but all school K-University is free (except private schools and universities).
The secret? They have a social democracy, so the legislature writes the laws but everyone gets to vote on them (they vote 4x per year or so). So there are no lobbyists in CH. They only spend a small portion of taxes on the military, and each state is required to pay for it to prevent special interests interfering at the federal level. Pretty smart, huh?