FTFA: His $38,000 bill was covered by the Ontario health ministry.

Canada's health care system is private, just like the US. It's the insurance that's nationalized in Canada. So the insurance pays for them to go to hospitals in the US sounds OK to me.

sithon: elective procedures subby

Ya shhh. Don't let facts get in the way of a reasoned argument.

So Canadians get to go to the closest available hospital for free even if the hospital is in the US? My God, why would anyone want to live like that?

And A Bit Else: Of course the 'death panel' will put it more politely, but that's the answer you'll get.

Yet, oddly, the governing body, or 'death panel', for the UK's NHS requires all Primary Care Trusts to offer bariatric surgery.

Goldstien Sachs: brukmann: Goldstien Sachs: sithon: elective procedures subby

What's your point? Enunciate.

Elucidate, you mean? Don't threadshiat if you don't know the items of debate.

Ok buddy. Elucidate your point.

/I stand corrected.
//Knowledge is power, thanks for sharing.

It wasn't my point, it was sithon's. I inferred his meaning. If you're having trouble, ask him again... My point was that you should do it in a less shiatty way if you expect an answer.

bulldg4life: CBR ME ASAP: So where will we send our patients when the same happens in the US? Mexico?

When the US institutes a policy of UHC...where do you believe the expensive facilities go?

I don't believe the facilities go anywhere, I believe the lines get longer.

TigerStar:

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at my privately owned workplace thanks to the the fact that I wouldn't work somewhere I could be maimed, because I am an educated and valuable employee with a degree from a private institution and because of workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals at a privately owned business which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home and am nearly killed by a van full of mexicans with 7 year old plates and 2 tons of lawn-edging equipment not regulated by OSHA, on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because I'm not a fecking moron, and because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, although if it was burned down I would receive a handsome check from a privately owned insurance company, and which twice been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department, who only came to file a police report so I could once again claim a handsome check from my privately owned insurance company.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration in order to keep up the continuing arms race with Soviet Russia-- and after paying a privately owned ISP a hefty sum, I can post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

FTFY

CBR ME ASAP: The point is this. If Canada has such a great plan, how come they can't afford to take care of their own citizens?

Did you miss the part where they pay for all these procedures?

They can and ARE affording to take care of their own citizens. If you're running at capacity, and you've got neighbors close who are running well below capacity, it can often be more cost-effective to utilize their excess capacity versus expanding your own. Hell, you see that in the business world all the time -- both Intel and AMD, for example, have outsourced part of their CPU fabrication to TSMC, because it's cheaper for them to buy from another manufacturer than it will be to expand their own wafer fab facilities.

jsobota: So they have an over-worked health system that they can't afford or simply choose not to upgrade with more facilities, doctors, nurses, orderlies, lab techs, etc.

You're confusing health care providers with health insurance providers -- BC&BS can't force Mercy Hospital to upgrade its facilities.

Also, why would their health care system bother spending billions to build state-of-the-art facilities, when there is plenty of extra capacity in ours? Their citizens still get taken care of, and we reap the benefits. It's a win/win unless and until our facilities begin to experience strain from the situation. I really don't see a problem with this.

hitlersbrain: The government sends people to the best hospital (no poor or middle class Americans can afford) and pays the bill.

On what planet is that considered a failure?

In case you live in a cave:

1. Socialized medicine in other countries far exceeds our own system.
2. Global climate change is real and caused by mankind.
3. Cigarettes cause cancer.

The same bunch of bought off shysters tried to mislead people about all the above out of sheer greed.

Just because you claim it is true, does not make it so.

wmoonfox: CBR ME ASAP: The point is this. If Canada has such a great plan, how come they can't afford to take care of their own citizens?

You must have missed the part of the article where it stated that Canada was paying for most of these procedures. The problem is a lack of facilities, not funds.

Why is there a lack of facilities?

karmaceutical: This obvious failure of our health care system is exactly why we should not allow the government to take over the car trade-in programs so many rely on.

strangely your comment is related to your name...

CBR ME ASAP: I don't believe the facilities go anywhere, I believe the lines get longer.

So we build more facilities. It's not like either the US or Canada couldn't do that, it's just cheaper for Canada at the moment to outsource.

Mongo cut wood: So under ObamaCare, this man would just be told to die if we enact this type of healthcare cause he couldn't get it here. Under Obamacare, Canada would no longer have this option.

No what will happen is that we'll outsource treatments.

Expect jumbo jet sales for Air India to increase.

No YOU'RE a Towel: Green? Really? Really?

Hasn't this all been debunked MONTHS ago?

Because if they say it enough times, everyone too stupid to read the rest of it will have seen it enough times to believe it.

I wonder if fark's "fair and balanced" coverage will eventually chase off the advertisers that aren't silling "I love conservatives" shirts. The whargarrbl greenlighted on this site is getting stupid. Hope whatever they're paying Drew is worth it.

cameroncrazy1984: CBR ME ASAP: poisonedpawn78: real shaman: Some of these responses make sense.

what a great system Canada has that can't afford its own equipment.

Because its not like americans go to brazil for plastic surgery or anything.

The point is this. If Canada has such a great plan, how come they can't afford to take care of their own citizens?

They still pay for it. They just prefer to do some things in the US. At what point in the article did it state the that patient had to pay for his own surgery?

They prefer to do it here because they can't afford to buy new equipment because the hospitals are over-run with patients and doctors are leaving in droves because of the poor working conditions and poor pay.

CBR ME ASAP: Why is there a lack of facilities?

The lack of facilities is a free market problem. Health care in Canada is all private, only the insurance is socialized.

OMG SEE, DEATH PANELS, WE'RE GONNA DIE, OBAMA IS A TERR'RIST, WHARGBLARGL!!!!

jsobota: wmoonfox: CBR ME ASAP: The point is this. If Canada has such a great plan, how come they can't afford to take care of their own citizens?

You must have missed the part of the article where it stated that Canada was paying for most of these procedures. The problem is a lack of facilities, not funds.

So they have an over-worked health system that they can't afford or simply choose not to upgrade with more facilities, doctors, nurses, orderlies, lab techs, etc.

THIS. Which is exactly why the doctors in Canada are calling for massive reform.

FarkinNortherner: downtownkid: Your reliance on America just kills you, doesn't it? Sad, really.

I'm not Canadian, but I appreciate your efforts to demonstrate that you can't counter the argument.

You didn't present an argument, you made a sarcastic comment. Do you understand the difference between the two?

CBR ME ASAP: hitlersbrain: The government sends people to the best hospital (no poor or middle class Americans can afford) and pays the bill.

On what planet is that considered a failure?

In case you live in a cave:

1. Socialized medicine in other countries far exceeds our own system.
2. Global climate change is real and caused by mankind.
3. Cigarettes cause cancer.

The same bunch of bought off shysters tried to mislead people about all the above out of sheer greed.

Just because you claim it is true, does not make it so.

Me and an army of legitimate scientists, specialists and researchers. Don't believe me any more than some bloated a$$ on the AM radio. See what the people who know what they are talking about say. (hint: they are not on FOX news.)

Aaaaand the bogus attack on Canada's "socialized" healthcare system is debunked in the Boobiess... god the extremist fundamentalist America-capitalists are pathetic.

wmoonfox: jsobota: So they have an over-worked health system that they can't afford or simply choose not to upgrade with more facilities, doctors, nurses, orderlies, lab techs, etc.

You're confusing health care providers with health insurance providers -- BC&BS can't force Mercy Hospital to upgrade its facilities.

Also, why would their health care system bother spending billions to build state-of-the-art facilities, when there is plenty of extra capacity in ours? Their citizens still get taken care of, and we reap the benefits. It's a win/win unless and until our facilities begin to experience strain from the situation. I really don't see a problem with this.

Nail, head, etc. My biggest complaint about the ideas being bandied about for the public option is that access is one thing, use is quite another. Prenatal care is a big decider in the health of a newborn. Toss in clean living and you have a good shot at a healthy baby, but this is 'merka so we don't need any of that crap. Prenatal care is covered under a lot of states CHIP programs. I don't have the numbers because I can't find them but I want to know how many low-income mothers who don't have private insurance but would be covered under the gov't run CHIP get the necessary care for their unborn/newborn child. You can lead the horse to water, but you can't make em drink.

cameroncrazy1984: Because it's not cost-effective for a province to provide every single treatment when their population is only 8 million. It's far cheaper to send the one guy a year they have with this problem to the US. The guy gets the treatment, the government pays for it and still saves money, and everybody wins.

Sounds so very capitalist.

Hiro Nakamura: I've been subject to government-run health care for the last 12 years. Let me tell you some of the horror stories I have:

[...]

2004: Son was born. No complications. Overnight stay in hospital for wifey.

2004: Gall bladder surgery for wife.


OMG, they removed her y!

ecmoRandomNumbers: bingethinker: Instead of building expensive new facilities, they pay for you to go to a U.S. hospital. It's cheaper, in the short run at least.

Insurance companies have agreements with hospitals. My Gastro specialist charges over $1,200 for an endoscopy. My insurance pays less than half that, and that's the end of it. Canada is acting like a big insurance company in these cases.

Of course, if I didn't have insurance, I'd be on the hook for the whole farking $1,200 because I don't have the bargaining power.

Clearly, the answer is forcing every taxpaying American to pay for your procedures.

CBR ME ASAP: Why is there a lack of facilities?

There's a "lack" of medical facilities in Rhode Island, which is why people from Providence sometimes get treatment in Boston or New York.

CBR ME ASAP: Why is there a lack of facilities?

Let's use an analogy to make this easier for you: I have a few tools for working on my car, but I don't have a cherry-picker for working on my engine. Why? It's expensive, and I would never recoup my cost -- I would be much better off paying somebody else to do the work if/when I ever need it.

I thought everybody wanted Canadians to die, anyway.

Sum Dum Gai: CBR ME ASAP: The point is this. If Canada has such a great plan, how come they can't afford to take care of their own citizens?

Did you miss the part where they pay for all these procedures?

They can and ARE affording to take care of their own citizens. If you're running at capacity, and you've got neighbors close who are running well below capacity, it can often be more cost-effective to utilize their excess capacity versus expanding your own. Hell, you see that in the business world all the time -- both Intel and AMD, for example, have outsourced part of their CPU fabrication to TSMC, because it's cheaper for them to buy from another manufacturer than it will be to expand their own wafer fab facilities.

OK, so what happens when the US changes their system and this is no longer an option for Canada? All of the sudden their plan looks like shiat. They have too few doctors, nurses, hospitals and equipment and they can't afford to upgrade. Outsourcing health care is not my idea of a good plan.

cameroncrazy1984: CBR ME ASAP: bulldg4life: CBR ME ASAP: So where will we send our patients when the same happens in the US? Mexico?

When the US institutes a policy of UHC...where do you believe the expensive facilities go?

I don't believe the facilities go anywhere, I believe the lines get longer.

Based on what? Over the long term if people have the ability to utilize preventative medicine the lines will actually get shorter. Which is the WHOLE FORKING POINT!

Over time everything evens out. Not much comfort to those who suffer through the process leveling out.

cameroncrazy1984: CBR ME ASAP: bulldg4life: CBR ME ASAP: So where will we send our patients when the same happens in the US? Mexico?

When the US institutes a policy of UHC...where do you believe the expensive facilities go?

I don't believe the facilities go anywhere, I believe the lines get longer.

Based on what? Over the long term if people have the ability to utilize preventative medicine the lines will actually get shorter. Which is the WHOLE FORKING POINT!

Stop with the preventative medicine you retard.

wmoonfox: CBR ME ASAP: Why is there a lack of facilities?

Let's use an analogy to make this easier for you: I have a few tools for working on my car, but I don't have a cherry-picker for working on my engine. Why? It's expensive, and I would never recoup my cost -- I would be much better off paying somebody else to do the work if/when I ever need it.

So you're saying there are plenty of facilities, just not the specialized ones?

Sum Dum Gai: Did you miss the part where they pay for all these procedures?

They can and ARE affording to take care of their own citizens. If you're running at capacity, and you've got neighbors close who are running well below capacity, it can often be more cost-effective to utilize their excess capacity versus expanding your own. Hell, you see that in the business world all the time -- both Intel and AMD, for example, have outsourced part of their CPU fabrication to TSMC, because it's cheaper for them to buy from another manufacturer than it will be to expand their own wafer fab facilities.

American egoism, romanticixed ideals of self-sufficiency, and anti-socialism would never allow this type of solution to even be considered and blind them to it's logic.

Subtle Correction: OMG, they removed her y!

That's ok, we sued for 38 billion dollars. I forgot to mention that.