This is just plain farking sad.

What a nicely paranoid society we have become.


Hey, BOOGY BOOGY BOOGY.


Gotcha, didn't I.

Wow. Makes me think about Political Science class back in high school. Keep in mind this was back in the late '80s. Mock class election, different groups were assigned as different political parties. Mine was socialist. On election day my group came in wearing swastika armbands. After losing the election to democracy, we all stood up, pulled out cap guns and proceeded to assassinate the entire class, thereby winning the election by default. Today, we would have had SWAT all over the place.

DerekSD: HempHead: DerekSD: resembling a firearm into a school anywhere in this country these days is criminally stupid.

Case in point:

for now....



They also carry swords for when those Nebraska fans get out of line.

Hemp and Jeff

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying I agree or not with the (over)reaction or not, or that kids who have access to guns are likely to shoot someone.

I'm just saying the thing that created these types of reactions was Columbine, and then Virginia Tech. I'm not commenting either way on it. Just stating the fact. It's not the good 'ole days anymore.

I've been in arm's reach of a fire-arm almost every day of my life, and I've never even considered shooting anyone. There's a way to expose children to guns and raise them with them without making murdering maniacs.

HempHead: DerekSD: HempHead: DerekSD: resembling a firearm into a school anywhere in this country these days is criminally stupid.

Case in point:

for now....



They also carry swords for when those Nebraska fans get out of line.

shocker to the back of the perp's head.
wearing an anachronistic edged weapon is the last of that cop's modern issues.

skinnycatullus: /fishing looks like fun when other people do it
//the old man picture amused me, though

So you were trolling! I wasn't sure so I gave a straight response.

When I read threads like this I am glad that I put my daughter in private schools - mostly, and that I don't have to deal with any of this ridiculous bullshiat.
If you grow up with weapons you learn appropriate use of them and a healthy respect for the consequences.

/not a gun owner

When I was six years old, my Dad bought my brother and I some revolutionary style rifles. They were cap guns that fired cork bullets. It was designed well enough that the cork would actually fire from the barrel at a decent speed, just from a standard cap.

Damn times have changed, and not for the better.

/I'll be 42 next week
//not sure I want to even see our country when my kids are my age

In case it hasn't been said yet...

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Home of the brave indeed...

At my middle school we had a history teacher who, in his spare time, did Civil War re-enactments. His classroom was at the end of a hallway that overlooked the basketball courts and sports fields. He brought in his own civil war era rifle and allowed a student to fire it (a blank obviously) out the side door.

He also brought some of his buddies along with their replica cannon. Four students got to actually man and fire that sucker on the football field. This was 1990 in Arvada, Colorado, a pretty affluent suburb of Denver. I wonder if he could still pull that off today.

Bolo78: At my middle school we had a history teacher who, in his spare time, did Civil War re-enactments. His classroom was at the end of a hallway that overlooked the basketball courts and sports fields. He brought in his own civil war era rifle and allowed a student to fire it (a blank obviously) out the side door.

He also brought some of his buddies along with their replica cannon. Four students got to actually man and fire that sucker on the football field. This was 1990 in Arvada, Colorado, a pretty affluent suburb of Denver. I wonder if he could still pull that off today.


I remember when I was in middle school (around 1996), my history teacher brought in a Luger her father plundered from a dead German in WW2.

/Nobody died
//Nobody WHARRGARRBLEd

when i was in middle school my male teachers were all ww2 veterans.

/except our health/sex ex teacher.
//fairly certain she was working street corners in the early 40's.
///had a hussy vibe about her.

<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4576305&IDComment=53610707#c536 10707">Jeff73</a>:</b> <i>But the Sullivans moved away and I never got closure. That happened years before I was a teenager yet somehow I don't remember ever shooting anyone.</i>

Cue anecdotal evidence is not data graphic. Not just for you though - for many well meaning morans on this thread on both sides of the issue.

DerekSD: Hack of all trades: DerekSD:

there is a roberto's just across the street from a 7-11. just before clairmont drive turns westward and downhill.
it was cheap and easy.
i wanted to hit mtn. mike's, but the other people in our pary talked me out of it. that shopping center isn't exactly 'dog friendly' for some reason.



I lived in the area (now Northpark), taught at one of those schools mentioned, and have eaten at that Mountain Mikes. Your friends are wise.

thanks!
i was in the mood for pizza. the only alternatives were a handful of taco shops, an italian joint that didn't have outside seating (couldn't have that with my pooches in tow), a buffet joint and two burger drive-thrus.

how bad is mtn. mikes, btw?


Not that I ever expect my pizza to be even remotely healthy, I stay away from Mountain Mikes because pure, delicious, artery-clogging grease. Hmmmm. I wonder what time they're open till tonight?

Hack of all trades:grease. Hmmmm. I wonder what time they're open till tonight?

too damned late. especially to haul my ass anywhere beyond my driveway in ramona.

Tainted1: The public school system has been going full retard for quite some time now.

no argument from me. it did produce a generation of people who use the term "retard"

I remember in middle school what the teacher did at one point during teaching us about WWI.

He had everyone line up in a few lines, then walk through 5 or 6 rows of desks, rolling a die at each one, laying down on a 1-4, moving forward on a 5-6. Of course, the chances of making it across were terrible (I think 1 person got through) and then he said something to the effect of "everyone who didn't make it just died to machine gun fire, and each desk is barbed wire you'd have to crawl through. Imagine wave after wave of people dying like this, and that's trench warfare."

Sure, he could've just given us the statistics, but that was really an effective way of driving home just how bleak it was to be stuck in that situation, and was a good visual exclamation point to a lesson.

I'd imagine the teacher was doing something similar here, likely something like demonstrating how guerrilla tactics could defeat a larger, better trained, better armed force by simply knowing the land and making use of it (not wearing bright red also helps :P). He may have even had them actually fight it out using plastic darts or some other harmless projectile, where hit=dead. Have 2/3 of the class in a block formation with the other 1/3 able to move freely and take effective cover, and the 1/3 will of course win. Sure, majorly simplified and doesn't take into account stuff like how long it takes to load a musket, but it still gets the primary point across.

The teacher SHOULD be praised for actually thinking of a memorable lesson, but sadly, this is how farked our education system is.

Grembo: Wow. Makes me think about Political Science class back in high school. Keep in mind this was back in the late '80s. Mock class election, different groups were assigned as different political parties. Mine was socialist. On election day my group came in wearing swastika armbands. After losing the election to democracy, we all stood up, pulled out cap guns and proceeded to assassinate the entire class, thereby winning the election by default. Today, we would have had SWAT all over the place.

Fun story time! One year at Boy's State, the majority party was basically trampling all over the minority party, to the point that the minority party got fed up and walked out of session. The majority party still had a quorum, though, so they continued to pass legislation. The minority party responded by staging a military coup, holding the reps hostage with (water) guns. Kangaroo courts, mock executions, the whole nine yards. I'm still to this day trying to figure out how that one ever flew with the adult chaperones and teachers. I'm 100% certain you couldn't pull that off today.

Ha! When I was in 8th grade, my social studies teacher brought his grandfathers 1861 Springfield and officers saber in from the Civil War. If he tried to do that today he would prolly get shot

I never understood the concept of 'locking down' in the first place. "Hey, gunman, guess what? Your targets will -not- be fleeing. Shoot through the window in the door to get some!"

Lars The Canadian Viking:
I love how schools saw "lockdowns" at prisons and thought "hey, that's a good idea, we can learn a lot about running a school from running a prison."

In prison, lockdown contains the inmates so they can't hurt each other or the staff by rioting. In school, it has a totally different purpose, preventing anyone from escaping the building as homicidal maniacs roam the halls with machine guns and pipe bombs.

Bathia_Mapes: My love of history has a lot to do with the efforts of a high school world history teacher. Some of the methods & demonstrations he did then wouldn't fly nowadays. For example...bringing in faithful reproductions of muskets, flintlock rifles, etc., all that he had built himself at home.

Considering that the article describes the items as "plastic rifles" though, I have a feeling that the teacher bought some toy M-16's at the local Wal-Mart. It would have been funny if the kids grew up thinking the Revolutionary War was fought with automatic weapons.

That erroneous assumption is to the effect that the aim of public education to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence, and make them fit to discharge the duties citizenship in an enlightened and independent manner. Nothing could be from the truth.

The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever pretensions of politicians, pedagogues other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else.

/Mencken guards my lawn

RminusQ [TotalFark] Quote 2009-08-15 02:03:55 AM
Any teacher who brings creativity to the classroom is looked upon with suspicion. I'm not sure how we're supposed to encourage thought in students by being such mindless teach-to-the-test automatons.

And I'd really like to think the retort to that isn't "Well, you're NOT supposed to encourage thought in students."


How do you expect them to grow up to be good Liberals if they learn to think for themselves?

Zero tolerance laws or rules are an indication that the system has already failed. When the situation has devolved to the point that people no longer trust their judges or policy makers to exercise rational judgement, they demand zero tolerance laws or rules, which in turn are as stupidly enforced as the former rules or laws.

Imagine trying to stage Romeo and Juliet without daggers, swords, or poison. Ay, there's the rub...

// Old man shuffles away, muttering to himself.

Tenkin: I think this was an over-reaction on the part of the school, but a bad move by the teacher to begin with. Pictures would have sufficed.

Would pictures of the place they aren't going to go on a field trip too also suffice?

I stayed on campus during my high school years. Quite a few of us brought both pistols and rifles or shotguns to school with us. Hell, the headmaster (my father was a Marine) would often come check in my trunk as soon as I got there to see what I'd brought to school with me each time and we'd compare rifles and go shooting together.

I remember in 8th grade doing a report on weapons of the civil war... I made rifle charges with buckshot and black pepper wrapped in tissue.

I made damn sure to stress to the teacher and to my classmates that it was farking pepper and not black powder in any way. But this sounds pretty damn stupid.

NutWrench: Pathman: Tainted1: The public school system has been going full retard for quite some time now.

no argument from me. it did produce a generation of people who use the term "retard"

Perhaps the purpose of language is to reveal and convey meaning and thought and not to make you feel better.

Good point. How broad-minded of you.

we are so paralyzed by fear, and have become such ninnies.

skinnycatullus: memebot_of_doom: The teacher may have been naive in his choice of props, but using visual / tactile aids is generally a good way of improving learning retention.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

Yeah, this. He had good intentions, but was farking stupid for bringing replica guns into the classroom.

Jeager76: we are so paralyzed by fear, and have become such ninnies.

Because only "ninnies" would be scared of guns, right?

40 watt range: It's not the good 'ole days anymore.

Except that nothing has changed, except for more fearmongering. Kids are not in any more danger now than they were 5, 10, 15 years ago.

The only real danger our kids face is the backlash from the needless fearmongering

Or, to put it one way, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

Oh, how horrible! They actually used *GUNS* in the Revolutionary War???

Didn't RTFA, but I'm guessing that the teacher simply didn't notify anyone in the administration that he was bringing plastic guns to school for a lesson. I agree the school overreacted, but a small amount of foresight on the teacher's part likely could have prevented this.

When I was in middle school we actually had a civil war re-enactor guy come in in full regalia with gun and everything. He was demonstrating how hot and terrible the uniforms were, how much equipment they had and even how to re-load the musket with the ball and the rarmrod and everything. It was sweet.

That was in the mid-90s, I can't imagine that much has changed.

swamp_of_dumb: That erroneous assumption is to the effect that the aim of public education to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence, and make them fit to discharge the duties citizenship in an enlightened and independent manner. Nothing could be from the truth.

The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever pretensions of politicians, pedagogues other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else.

/Mencken guards my lawn

Aulus: When I was in 9th grade, 1963, one of my art class projects was to make a new leather sheath for my 6" Boy Scout hunting knife. I brought knife to school for at least a week and no one even batted an eye.

Six years ago, one of the 8th grade social studies teachers at a middle school here had her dad come in for an after school lecture on Civil war weaponry. He had muskets and cavalry sabers, all of which were passed around. I was amazed but pleased the school let that happen.

This spring, when I was in a long term sub assignment for a Latin teacher, they wouldn't let me bring in my working replicas of Roman gladii and pila. My students were very pissed about that.

I had a similar experience in elementary school with Civil War weaponry. He brought knives, outfits, and a gun, and showed how it would of been loaded and used. Without actually putting in real gun powder and bullet of course. We had a lot of demonstrations at school, then when I hit middle school it almost stopped, and then when I went to high school it never happened at all except for two classes of mine.

They need to this type of things more often.

davidphogan 2009-08-15 01:41:19 AM I feel terrible for the kids of today.
----------------------------------------

me too :(

Fortunately the nuttery only just started beginning when I was high school (and yes, I was pissed). Now that it's in full gear I'm VERY glad I'm out of school.

MY dad remembers being able to build blackpowder rifles and do gunsmithing work in his HS shop class during the 70's.

So on the one hand, we think teachers should be highly paid, in the same class as lawyers and doctors (or at least, so I've read...). On the other hand, these highly-responsible professionals can't be trusted to bring plastic historical replicas to their classroom?

skinnycatullus: And what important understanding of the Revolutionary War are middle school students going to gain by seeing what some of the weapons looked like? The tactical and strategic implications of having a slow-loading single-shot weapon with a very limited range (which you can't, by the way, demonstrate effectively with a replica)? Maybe if the teacher actually cared he would have developed a lesson plan involving actual learning and not a dressed up version of "playing war" just to get their attention.

12/10...best I've ever seen. Or you are a complete douche bag. I am giving you the benefit of my doubt though. Niiiice.