It makes me sick to see some snot-nosed little kid in a grocery store kicking and screaming for something at the impulse-buy section of the check out counter while mom ignores the tantrum until the last second and then gives in and buys them the shiny plastic squirt gun and a Snickers bar to shut them up.

TFA: When Junior and his mother walk into the doctor's waiting room, there are two seats available: a big chair for grown-ups and a stool for kids. Junior takes the adult seat, and starts to throw a tantrum after Mom asks him to move. With resignation, she squats onto the little seat.

I guess it's all for the best that I will never be a parent, as it appears that it's no longer acceptable to knock the shiat out of a kid who pulls that.

Children's only value comes on the black market organ trade.

The number should be higher. My kids can be annoying, but they're not spoiled rotten.

jaylectricity: What percentage of people come outside? I've only done it three or four times and most of those were in a body of water of some sort.

cksewell: It makes me sick to see some snot-nosed little kid in a grocery store kicking and screaming for something at the impulse-buy section of the check out counter while mom ignores the tantrum until the last second and then gives in and buys them the shiny plastic squirt gun and a Snickers bar to shut them up.

We have a supermarket here called Woodman's. They have a Family Checkout aisle that has NOTHING near it that would interest a child. Kudos to them for it, too!

Anyone else think that article was a whole bunch of vague nothing? Don't let your brats boss you around. Okay.

Anyway, I noticed this article on the side How to Let Kids be Kids.
It's sad that people actually need to read that.

littlett's: Fluff Girl: TFA: When Junior and his mother walk into the doctor's waiting room, there are two seats available: a big chair for grown-ups and a stool for kids. ...

Junior would be standing in the corner!

Nobody puts Junior...

OniNeko: We have a supermarket here called Woodman's. They have a Family Checkout aisle that has NOTHING near it that would interest a child. Kudos to them for it, too!

Let me guess.

Tampons, laxatives, and prune juice.

These 5% of kids will of course be the 5% of adults that run the country politically and economically.

A lot of parents, including me, spend a lot of time looking over our shoulders. We correct our children gently, which they ignore, so we up the ante. Then, the PC crowd shows up and tells us that spanking is child abuse. Discipline now, and you won't be standing in front of a judge in later years watching your kid do the perp walk. But, just know there are always people watching. Especially those whose past demons have them convinced that all punishment is abuse.

The_Sponge: I was at the Muppet exhibit (@ EMP) yesterday with my SO, and I just wish that quite a few of the parents had been able to control their little monkeys.

/Not a racist comment.
//Most, if not all of the kids were white.
///But they were acting like monkeys....no better way to describe it.
////Besides, do kids today even know who the Muppets are?

The kids I know don't know who the muppets are. It's atrocious.

/Now I have to go check out that EMP thing.

I've always lived in a big house, with "rich" parents for our state, at least. (We aren't talking New York City rich, here.) The thing that has always bothered me is people assume that because I lived in a large house, had nice clothing, and was taken care of for college, I was spoiled.

The reality is I was raised from a young age to think that money doesn't make you better than anyone, and was denied many, many things my age group had. An ipod? Didn't get it under junior year of high school, because my parents thought it was unnecessary, and I relied on a 10 year old CD player until then. A cell phone? Hell, I didn't get one until college. Expensive trips, electronics, name brand clothing? Nope.

But my parents DID send me to very expensive educational camps, paid for college classes while I was in high school, trips to the opera, bought me a nice violin, etc, etc. And I never was made to hold a job in high school: instead they told me to take all the AP classes I could, and I did. Everything was taken care of.

What I'm trying to say is there are different levels of being "spoiled" and while the ten year olds with ipod touches and laptops turn my stomach, too, I'll never, never equate having opportunities with being a spoiled.

jaylectricity : Usually if I see someone disciplining their child in public and somebody else starts yapping about social services, I just start spanking that PC b*tch right then and there.


Please move nearby, so I can take you with me out in public. I need a spanking wingman!

cherryl taggart: A lot of parents, including me, spend a lot of time looking over our shoulders. We correct our children gently, which they ignore, so we up the ante. Then, the PC crowd shows up and tells us that spanking is child abuse. Discipline now, and you won't be standing in front of a judge in later years watching your kid do the perp walk. But, just know there are always people watching. Especially those whose past demons have them convinced that all punishment is abuse.

I wonder if people who think it is too difficult to not abuse their kids are also for the torturing of terrorists

We try to be pretty darn strict with our kids. The hard part is setting firm limits without being insanely controlling. Freedom to do what you want within set limits is really all most kids need. I've noticed in dealing particularly with the special needs kids that the ones who have strict rules are often happier.

It does kind of weird me out that I actually got complimented about a week ago for a public spanking of the little ones when they tried to wander off. Since when is it a huge deal to take discipline seriously? Mommy says no, you deal with it and move on. How hard is that for most kids? I've been shocked and disturbed more than I like to admit by how many kids I know who run wild.

/such a mommy
//never contradict the daddy or the grandparents without extremely good reason. it confuses the kids

telosphilos : I've noticed in dealing particularly with the special needs kids that the ones who have strict rules are often happier.

Amen. And yet, the looks we get when we're enforcing them. One of my kids really has a hard time with understanding personal space, so the rule in stores is, 'hands in pockets.' I've even had store managers tell me that it's fine to let my kid touch something, only to then get upset when he then tries to climb employees or displays. Stop undermining my rules, your comfort level will be left intact, and my kid won't have a meltdown because you're yelling at him.

Fluff Girl: TFA: "When Junior and his mother walk into the doctor's waiting room, there are two seats available: a big chair for grown-ups and a stool for kids. Junior takes the adult seat, and starts to throw a tantrum after Mom asks him to move. With resignation, she squats onto the little seat."

I guess it's all for the best that I will never be a parent, as it appears that it's no longer acceptable to knock the shiat out of a kid who pulls that.

I saw this in a barbershop about ten years ago. One seat left, in walk 10-y-o kid and mom. Guess who took the seat? I actually spoke up and said something to the kid: "Maybe you want to let your mom sit there."

He shrugged and kept sitting. I can kind of understand that the place was really crowded, and sometimes there's *safety* in parking yer carcass and not moving, having mom stand at your shoulder and protect you, but this was beyond the pale.

Darkraven: I've always lived in a big house, with "rich" parents for our state, at least. (We aren't talking New York City rich, here.) The thing that has always bothered me is people assume that because I lived in a large house, had nice clothing, and was taken care of for college, I was spoiled.

The reality is I was raised from a young age to think that money doesn't make you better than anyone, and was denied many, many things my age group had. An ipod? Didn't get it under junior year of high school, because my parents thought it was unnecessary, and I relied on a 10 year old CD player until then. A cell phone? Hell, I didn't get one until college. Expensive trips, electronics, name brand clothing? Nope.

But my parents DID send me to very expensive educational camps, paid for college classes while I was in high school, trips to the opera, bought me a nice violin, etc, etc. And I never was made to hold a job in high school: instead they told me to take all the AP classes I could, and I did. Everything was taken care of.

What I'm trying to say is there are different levels of being "spoiled" and while the ten year olds with ipod touches and laptops turn my stomach, too, I'll never, never equate having opportunities with being a spoiled.

Are you Asian? 'Cause your parents totally sound Chinese/Korean/Japanese. My parents didn't have money and couldn't pay for my college, but they bought me books and sent me to academic workshops, and gave me an allowance in HS so I wouldn't need to work.

You are very lucky, but I think you know that already :-)

Darkraven: I've always lived in a big house, with "rich" parents for our state, at least. (We aren't talking New York City rich, here.) The thing that has always bothered me is people assume that because I lived in a large house, had nice clothing, and was taken care of for college, I was spoiled.

The reality is I was raised from a young age to think that money doesn't make you better than anyone, and was denied many, many things my age group had. An ipod? Didn't get it under junior year of high school, because my parents thought it was unnecessary, and I relied on a 10 year old CD player until then. A cell phone? Hell, I didn't get one until college. Expensive trips, electronics, name brand clothing? Nope.

But my parents DID send me to very expensive educational camps, paid for college classes while I was in high school, trips to the opera, bought me a nice violin, etc, etc. And I never was made to hold a job in high school: instead they told me to take all the AP classes I could, and I did. Everything was taken care of.

What I'm trying to say is there are different levels of being "spoiled" and while the ten year olds with ipod touches and laptops turn my stomach, too, I'll never, never equate having opportunities with being a spoiled.

I feel old and I'm 30.

+

=

S T F U

telosphilos: We try to be pretty darn strict with our kids. The hard part is setting firm limits without being insanely controlling. Freedom to do what you want within set limits is really all most kids need. I've noticed in dealing particularly with the special needs kids that the ones who have strict rules are often happier.

It does kind of weird me out that I actually got complimented about a week ago for a public spanking of the little ones when they tried to wander off. Since when is it a huge deal to take discipline seriously? Mommy says no, you deal with it and move on. How hard is that for most kids? I've been shocked and disturbed more than I like to admit by how many kids I know who run wild.

/such a mommy
//never contradict the daddy or the grandparents without extremely good reason. it confuses the kids

All jokes aside you sound like a great Mom.

Lack of structure = nightmare.

verbaltoxin: In before the crotchfruit, snowflake, clown car comments with the self-righteous parent rebuttals.

Way to be a killjoy. I can't enjoy my popcorn if you preempt the snarky action.

So what I'm hearing in this thread is that everyone in this thread was raised perfectly, and all children nowadays are much worse than you remember being.

Just wanted to send out a big thank you to the parents in my internet cafe this week. You remember, your son dumped that 700ml bottle of juice down the back of a leather comfy chair and you neglected to tell me about it. It wasn't until the customer trying to sit beside you almost fell in the puddle that you screamed "I think we had a spill here" and couldn't even lift your laptop so I could get to it and clean it. Never mind the plants he pulled on the floor or magazines he shredded while you were checking your precious e-mails for 90 minutes. Seriously, fark you and your kid. Please don't have any more because you obviously can't be bothered with the one you have.
/feeling bitter

You don't need to spank you children to discipline them; it's kind of the easy way out, though.

/not against spanking, per-se
//is against lazy parenting

OniNeko: We have a supermarket here called Woodman's. They have a Family Checkout aisle that has NOTHING near it that would interest a child. Kudos to them for it, too!

I would totally give that store 100% of my business if I had kids.

I wasn't raised properly, and I was a damn hellion when I was a kid.

But, I had a brother. He taught me by example. He showed me what drugs, being a playboy, and hanging out with dumbasses gets you in life.

He's a Staff Sargent now. He figured things out eventually. I'm a Systems Analyst. No, I won't tell my coworkers I used to do drugs, skip school, and steal/burn things when I was a kid.

The_Sponge: ace in your face: The kids I know don't know who the muppets are. It's atrocious.

/Now I have to go check out that EMP thing.


IIRC, you live in/close to the Seattle area, and you have until the 16th to visit it.

/Be sure to get there early and avoid the crowds.
//Exhibit was smaller than I had hoped, though.
///Still fun, though.
////Especially when you can control a Muppet and use him to play the drums along with a Muppet band.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I am staying with my folks while my husband is in Iraq so I am back on Capitol Hill where I grew up. He will be drop dead jealous when I go- he LOVES the muppets.

cherryl taggart: telosphilos : I've noticed in dealing particularly with the special needs kids that the ones who have strict rules are often happier.

Amen. And yet, the looks we get when we're enforcing them. One of my kids really has a hard time with understanding personal space, so the rule in stores is, 'hands in pockets.' I've even had store managers tell me that it's fine to let my kid touch something, only to then get upset when he then tries to climb employees or displays. Stop undermining my rules, your comfort level will be left intact, and my kid won't have a meltdown because you're yelling at him.

Dear God, I hate that! Then you have to turn around and explain to the fool that the kid has thus and such disorder and the rules are the rules. Whatever happened to people minding their own business? I know they are trying to be nice, but it makes life so much harder.

dead_dangler: You don't need to spank you children to discipline them; it's kind of the easy way out, though.

/not against spanking, per-se
//is against lazy parenting

The point of spanking has less to do with punishment and more to do with getting their attention on the fact they did wrong and not to do wrong again. You can't always get the point across with time outs. I much prefer time outs and so does most every parent I know. Still, for high crimes like biting a sibling or running off on mom to pull a divide and conquer mannouver, spankings are vastly more effective.

Also, different age levels have different levels of understanding. The younger the kids, the more immediate the consequences need to be for something to be understood as misbehavior. This also factors in when dealing with special needs kids who aren't necessarily going to be capable of acting their age.

I'm not about to apologize for smacking some one's hand rather than letting them burn it on a 400 degree griddle. Yes, that happens in my house from time to time when some one gets over excited about pancakes. It's generally better to let the kids learn the natural consequences of their actions.

Hebalo: So what I'm hearing in this thread is that everyone in this thread was raised perfectly, and all children nowadays are much worse than you remember being.

Nah, the difference is the lazy parenting. Back in the day, lazy parents would just hit their children to shut them up, but since now they can get social services on them for that, they let their kids do whatever they want and buy them things to shut them up. It's easier that way.

In other words, good parents are still good parents, and shiatty parents are still shiatty parents. The methods are what's changed.

ImJustaTroll: I wasn't raised properly, and I was a damn hellion when I was a kid.

But, I had a brother. He taught me by example. He showed me what drugs, being a playboy, and hanging out with dumbasses gets you in life.

He's a Staff Sargent now. He figured things out eventually. I'm a Systems Analyst. No, I won't tell my coworkers I used to do drugs, skip school, and steal/burn things when I was a kid.

It's a shame your brother didn't teach you how to spell.