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(Guardian) NewsFlash Suspected 9/11 mastermind arrested   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 439
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15022 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2003 at 2:20 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2003-03-02 02:19:44 AM
Shut........UP writes: If its being presented as the actual memo, as it is in the artlice, no journalist or editor would correct the spelling.

When it comes to British publications, you're flat wrong on that. This is just the first example I found, but there are many more:

In 1998, the White House produced a document rebutting charges made by the Office of Independent Counsel. The BBC published the document with the preface that "[t]his is the text of the executive summary of the rebuttal to Kenneth Starr's report, issued by the White House."

The second sentence of the rebuttal is published as follows:

"He has taken responsibility for his actions, and he has apologised to the country, to his friends, leaders of his party, the cabinet and most importantly, his family."

But, the original text did not use apologised. The spelling in the original is apologiZed -- as correctly noted by ABC News. The British publication "corrected" the spelling of a written document and represented it as accurate. That is their standard practice.
 
2003-03-02 02:20:52 AM
I'm not saying I'm for a war, in fact hope and pray it doesn't happen. One death is too many whether by "collateral damage" or by a despot killing his own people.
I would point out that the "cold war" was fought to maintain the freedom of many and resulted in release from soviet rule of many easter Europeans.
What would you propose, BlobBrain, as to how to resolve the Iraqi and Korean situations?
 
2003-03-02 02:25:20 AM
JAdamS writes: I would point out that the "cold war" was fought to maintain the freedom of many and resulted in release from soviet rule of many easter Europeans.

I would point out that the Cold War was one of containment. Would an armed attack against the Soviet Union have produced a better resolution?

If containment worked against the Soviets, why is it such a leap of faith to think it might work against the Iraqis as well?
 
2003-03-02 02:32:28 AM
im drunk.
I say meh. Farkemm..
 
2003-03-02 02:53:53 AM
There were, of course, battles in the "cold war". Korea and Vietnam being the most costly on both sides. The present situation and the soviet situation were so much different that there is little comparison. The present Korean situation is much more like the soviet although in much smaller scale. Both USSR and Perhaps Korea have nuclear weapons and likely more public support than Mr Hussein. Iraq is surrounded by other sovereign states,not satellites. One can learn history, I'm not sure one can learn from history. Let's all hope war doesn't happen, but I just hope for success for our leaders and for the best for the Iraqi people.
 
2003-03-02 03:00:15 AM
Pseudo-Intellectuals are quite possibely the greatest threat the world stability. It's said really, they speak about the brainwashed people who back bush, when they themselves have been indoctrinated and programed by their far left high school and college faculties. They all spew out the same tired arguments they have been programed to believe and call it individuality and intelligence. Evil exists, war is a horrible but sometimes neccessary thing and the people in power are not sending us to war for oil.

War is not the worst thing possible. A society that has degenerated to the point were it will not accept a war for any reason, even their own protection is worse. A society that looks for the short term easy way out of everything is worse.

Saddam hussein ended the last war because he agreed to disarm. He has not. To believe otherwise to exist in a dream world. The inspectors will never find anything of importance and if they do the Iraq's won't destroy it. War is neccessary. In this day of age we can not afford to wait, we cannot afford to be weak, and we cannot be on the defense versus our enemies, because we have seen the terrible things that an enemy offensive can do to America. The old axiom still holds true. Nobody ever won a war by staying on the defensive. Sorry for the long winded post.
 
2003-03-02 03:05:39 AM
JAdamS writes: There were, of course, battles in the "cold war".

But, the United States never invaded the Soviet Union. Would the world have been better off if we had? Or, was a policy of containment better?

The present situation and the soviet situation were so much different that there is little comparison.

Containment is such a broad concept that it comfortably comprehends both the Soviet era and the current one. Why would you think that containment could not work?
 
2003-03-02 03:07:08 AM
BlobBrain-
So I'm a mercenary for choosing to defend my country? Your son knew the dangers when he joined. The army is for fighting not college money. Draftees are useless. Draftees are what brings on vietnams and such heroic fights as the Iraqi defense of kuwait. Nobody should have to fight that didn't sign up for it. If they did sign up then it's not really their choice where they go.
 
2003-03-02 03:20:27 AM
Im my mind, I don't know what is the best tactic. If I were an Iraqi, I might want war to end the misery for the country although people will die. There are things worth dying for. I'm not sure if containment has worked with Saddam. Again only time will tell.
 
2003-03-02 03:45:07 AM
50% of the world's wealth and 6% of the population? I'm not giving it back. If France or Germany were in the our situation (all the wealth, little population) they wouldn't give it back either...
 
2003-03-02 03:55:02 AM
But, the original text did not use apologised. The spelling in the original is apologiZed -- as correctly noted by ABC News. The British publication "corrected" the spelling of a written document and represented it as accurate. That is their standard practice.

Hang on. The Starr report was a public document. Fixing some spellings to match the British spellings of words in a publicly available document is quite a bit different than altering the content of a document you claim is a scoop.
 
2003-03-02 03:56:31 AM
BlobBrain-

Not posting much here lately but I have to say your posts are well thought out and I appreciate what you have to say. Keep it up and don't burn out.

Eraser8- Fighting the cold war with Russia was bankrupting both the U.S and the U.S.S.R. They just went belly-up before we did. Of course containment of Iraq would not hurt and cost us a fortune the way the cold war did. The problem I have with it is the sanctions against the Iraqi people. Sanctions do not hurt Saddam in anyway but they are killing the Iraqi people. Gotta figure out something else. And bombing them isn't a good answer either. I think the word "containment" needs to be better defined if it is going to be policy.
 
2003-03-02 04:14:20 AM
JJOtt - I'm going to play Devil's advocate here because I do respect soldiers, but I want your honest opinion.

In what way are you defending the USA? Being a soldier is not an answer to that question. Being a soldier means that you will do what your commanding officer tells you.

By being a soldier attacking Iraq, you aren't directly defending the US against terrorism, because we haven't established a link between Iraq and terrorism in the US. How exactly are you defending this country?
 
2003-03-02 04:59:34 AM
DrToast writes: Fixing some spellings to match the British spellings of words in a publicly available document is quite a bit different than altering the content of a document you claim is a scoop.

How, exactly, is it different?
 
2003-03-02 05:02:54 AM
Sonnyboy11 writes: Fighting the cold war with Russia was bankrupting both the U.S and the U.S.S.R.

Would war have been cheaper?

The problem I have with it is the sanctions against the Iraqi people.

Sanctions are only one part of a policy of containment. There is no reason why they must (or, even, should) be part of a comprehensive program.
 
2003-03-02 10:20:20 AM
(sigh)

Allright...I'm only gonna tell you once...

We're attacking Iraq to secure American oil supplies so we can then go after the SAUDIS who are the REAL source of the problem.

That's why the Bushies are having such a hard time explaining this to us -- THEY CAN'T TELL US THE REAL REASON!

.<
 
2003-03-02 10:23:33 AM
Why bother argueing, nobody is going to convert anyone. At the end of the day, liberals will go to bed thinking they'll change the world, and sock it to those eeeeviiiil greeeeeedy republicans who enjoy killing innocent children, and the conservatives will go to sleep knowing that they are right, and those long haired, sign waving, flag burning imbeciles are meaningless in the grand scheme of things..
 
2003-03-02 10:55:51 AM
i'm glad they caught him. pump him up with truth serom, get all the info. then take hime up in a plane and throw him out.
 
2003-03-02 01:17:55 PM
Oh, I get it now!

Osama Bin Laden is like "Dr.Evil"

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is like Robert Wagner as"#2"

I can't quite tell if Saddam Hussein is supposed to be "Frau Farbissina", or maybe "Goldmember"?

And George W. Bush must be our "Austin Powers". In this light I now understand the "good vs.evil" struggle our current administration is marketing to the public.

"Bushie Jr. - he's the man....FOR YOU!"
 
2003-03-02 01:26:46 PM
Actually, what I would like to see, is the next time they implode an old Las Vegas hotel, coat "Khalid Shaikh Mohammed" with bacon grease, stuff a big-ass ham in his mouth, lock him in what remains of the High Rollers suite, and blast away.
 
2003-03-02 02:51:07 PM
Well, I'm late to this thread and there's no way I'm reading the whole thread. So I'll add my two cents:

Drook him with truth serums and let him spill his evil little secrets and be a weapon against his cohorts. And make him aware of the consequences of his testimony to each fellow "martyr" he makes with his chemical indiscretions. Then keep him alive, healthy, imprisoned, and terrified. Forever. For f'ing ever.
 
zub
2003-03-02 03:02:25 PM
Should've added: "...and will be held without trial, along with loads of innocent Arabs."
 
2003-03-02 05:41:07 PM
How will Osama sleep without his nightly ass pounding. Poor Osama. (Flight 187 bound for Kansas now leaving) <--Worse than Hell. :)
 
2003-03-02 07:03:54 PM
Dogs of war (Dubya) and men of hate (Al-Qaeda)
With no cause, we don't discriminate
Discovery is to be disowned
Our currency is flesh and bone
Hell opened up and put on sale
Gather round and haggle
For hard cash, we will lie and deceive (United Nations)
Even our masters (US) don't know the webs we weave

On world, it's a battleground
One world and they smash it down
One world...one world

Invisible transfers, long distance calls
Hollow laughter in marble halls
Steps have been taken, a silent uproar
Has unleashed, the dogs of war
You can't stop what has begun

Signed, sealed, they deliver oblivion
We all have a dark side, to say the least
And dealing in death is the nature of the beast

One world, it's a battleground
One world and they smash it down
One world...one world

The Dogs of War don't negotiate
The Dogs of War won't capitulate
They will take and you will give
And you must die so that they may live
You can knock at any door
But wherever you go, you know they've been there before
Well winners can lose and things can get strained
But whatever you change, you know the dogs remain

On world, it's a battleground
One world and we're going to smash it down
One world...one world
 
2003-03-02 08:35:41 PM
What the...Ron Jeremy is a terrorist???

 
2003-03-02 09:21:34 PM
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: Much worse is the
decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight - nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety - is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions and blood of better men than himself."

- John Stuart Mill
 
2003-03-02 10:02:49 PM
ObscureRef

Thanks for tossing off a quote that has nothing to do with the current situation we all find ourselves in.

/bangs head on table...
 
2003-03-02 10:29:41 PM
BlobBrain: It's done. The decision has been made and the world will salute the wisdom of Bush. Nothing will stop the war at this point, except for the capture of Saddam.
 
2003-03-02 10:29:41 PM
BlobBrain: It's done. The decision has been made and the world will salute the wisdom of Bush. Nothing will stop the war at this point, except for the capture of Saddam.
 
2003-03-02 10:38:03 PM
BlobBrain: You're entirely welcome.
 
2003-03-02 10:41:53 PM

I think you're on the money, Tarmon
 
2003-03-02 11:56:45 PM
lol, Yammering_Splat_Vector... I was thinking the same thing. :D Bravo.
 
2003-03-03 12:03:29 AM

Bombs away.
It's off subject but a cool pic nevertheless.
 
2003-03-03 12:03:51 AM
 
2003-03-03 11:08:19 AM


"Can I least get some coffee? Sheesh...."
 
2003-03-03 03:38:06 PM
Dr. Strangelove: As late to this post as I am, that has got to be the best song on the whole album.

As far as this Al-Qaeda guy, fark him. I hope they do torture him. Makes up for having to watch my fellow Americans jump from 110 stories.
 
2003-03-03 04:24:50 PM
BlobBrain...

Nice thread-jack. This isn't about Iraq, but I'll placate you. Chew on these three simple words as a reason to go to war with Iraq: ANSAR AL ISLAM.

Not trying to launch flames at you, so don't take this in that manner. As far as Ansar al Islam goes, you should look 'em up (terrorist organization), look where they operate (Iraq proper), & look at who they have very close connections to (al Qaeda). This is rarely, if ever, spoken about & I don't really know why. Don't try to play the "they operate in areas of Iraq that are out of Saddam's control" card, because it's not valid. The only thing within Iraq that Saddam doesn't control is the air-space in the NFZs. He controls everything that happens on the ground & that's where these pricks are based and operate from.

The bottom line is that we're already at war man & the fronts are everywhere these bastards decide to go, even on our own soil. If you want to deny that and say that we're not at war, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Like it or not, 9/11 was AN ACT OF WAR. It's too bad that it doesn't fit the conventional criteria, where the perpitrator is a clearly defined soverign nation with a military. You can't really throw terrorists into a convenient "bucket" like you could Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan around the time of the second world war. Instead, this enemy swears no national alligance and hides behind a human shield. The rules of war have changed, we've finally gotten a new rule-book, and it's long overdue. One of the pillars of their game plan is to use our own system against us. It just so happens that we've got a President that acknowledges this FACT and is willing to act against it. Regardless of your stance on the current administration, as an American, you're entitled to it and I can respect your conflicting view. That's the great thing about OUR country.

Back to the subject: This guy's a first class asshole & it's an answered prayer that he was caught. His name pops up just about anytime you look at terrorist activity over the past decade. Hopefully they'll be able to pull some useful info out of him & will be able to weed through the copious amounts of disinformation he's sure to spew and use it to save lives. If al Qaeda operates similar to Hammas or Hezbollah, be on the look-out for a scorched earth policy where sleeper cells execute lots of small-scale suicide bombings, as opposed to sitting around waiting to be captured. Mardi Gras really worries me. Think about a soft target like The Quarter where you've got about a million drunk people crammed in a very localized area. It could easily be a recipe for disaster. Of course this is pure speculation, but I sincerely hope the authorities are really on top of it this week down in New Orleans.
 
2003-03-03 04:34:06 PM
Suebhoney...

We need to do more than torture this prick. I vote that we envoke the Jordanian policy of executing the families of al Qaeda members. They don't care about themselves, but they do care deeply for their wives and children. By doing so, we not only eliminate the current terrorist, but also future generations that feel the need to avenge the death of their "Uncle Achknad" at the hands of the "Great Satan".

*dons kevlar vest*
 
2003-03-04 03:33:54 PM
Simply do what was done to curb terrorism in the Philippines. Gen. John Pershing had a very interesting and effective method. Please excuse the cut-and-paste:

"Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The U.S. soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists
were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as martyrs."

All but one was shot, their bodies were dumped into the mass grave, and the hog guts were dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch. They welcome the chance to die for God.

Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Paradise (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil. The spectre of going to hell creates far more fear in the mind of a religious zealot than simple death, so if these folks want a war, we'll give 'em one. One in which dying in any manner means an immediate trip to hell.
 
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