If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian) NewsFlash Suspected 9/11 mastermind arrested   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 439
    More: NewsFlash  
•       •       •

15023 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2003 at 2:20 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


Want to get NewsFlash notifications in email?

439 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all
 
2003-03-01 10:31:38 PM
Taken from the Department of Homeland Security FAQ on the website:

How do we know that the DHS leadership will make decisions based on merit, not political patronage?
Written into the legislation that President George W. Bush asked for and signed into law is the affirmation of civil service protections. The Department of Homeland Security will afford its employees and job applicants the full protections of the Merit System Principles and protection against Prohibited Personnel Practices (e.g. protection for whistleblowers, prohibition against political favoritism and coercing political activity, etc.).


That's for you D8vo.
 
2003-03-01 10:34:13 PM
BlobBrain: I bow to you sir !
 
2003-03-01 10:35:34 PM
Elevation:
Industry employs people. It is not evil.

Tell that to all those who have lost their jobs to someone in a 3rd world country who will work for well below the U.S. minimum wage. Tell that to all the underage children Nike employs.
 
2003-03-01 10:39:06 PM
Peterthx

"We bombed China? News to me!"

Yes, in 1945-46, and 1950-53. Your fly is down, sir.
 
2003-03-01 10:39:16 PM
Remind me to call my broker Monday to buy HAL. Haliburton stock is sitting around 20, up from a low of last year but well under its pre-May-2001 highs.

shiat, if the conspiracy theorists are right, HAL will soar, and if they're wrong, it may outperform the market anyway.
 
2003-03-01 10:42:34 PM
Telemakhos

Agreed! It will soar. Maybe you can also find some children to boil and eat tonight, if you get hungry.
 
2003-03-01 10:43:14 PM
 
2003-03-01 10:49:11 PM
Yumm.... boiled children....
 
2003-03-01 10:52:52 PM
Telemakhos: had he been in Schindler's shoes, there would have been no movie...
 
2003-03-01 10:58:46 PM
My name is Patrick Bateman, I am 27 years old. I believe in taking care of myself, in a balanced diet and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an icepack while doing my stomach crunches; I can do a thousand now. After I remove the ice pack, I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water-activated gel cleanser. Then a honey-almond body scrub. And on the face, an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb mint facial masque, which I leave on for ten minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an aftershave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer. Then an anti-aging eye balm, followed by a final moisturizing protecting lotion. There is an idea of a Patrick Bateman, somekind of abstraction, but there is no real me. Only an entity-- something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can eve sense our lifestyles are probably comparable. I simply am not there.
 
2003-03-01 11:01:43 PM
BlobBrain: You write much in such a short time. Are you a college professor? In any case the US was wrong not to support the uprising after the 1st Gulf War. That much is true and it will not be repeated. Those Iraqis support this new war despite that experience and this fellow is the exception.

As for your father, that is interesting because I worked in Bomb Nav in the 70's on the D-Model B-52. So I maintained the Navigation equipment he used. Perhaps I worked on a bomber that he flew. Brings back good memories for me, but I never flew them, just kept them flying so as to eventually break the back of the Russian bear.

The events in the past that you mention are eclipsed by the goodness of America toward the world. If not for the US, the world would a frightening place. Rail against Germany China or Russia if you must, because the damage those countries have done to the world dwarf any supposed US offense.

My son will fight in this war. He went into Afghanistan to help rescue those missionaries the Taliban were holding, and will go in on the ground into Iraq. My daughters asked me yesterday if their brother would die. The odds are good he will survive, but there is a risk. I trust the President and that is the difference between you and me.
 
2003-03-01 11:05:03 PM
Yumm.... Schilnder's List... profitable movie for Hollywood... $317 million gross off a $25 million budget... nothing like making scads of money off the stories of the Holocaust.
 
2003-03-01 11:09:19 PM
My son will fight in this war.

I wish him all the best. And thank God there are people like him.
 
2003-03-01 11:12:54 PM
My son will fight in this war.
Good, my SUV is getting friggin' expensive to fill up.
 
2003-03-01 11:13:15 PM
The Observer got a hell of a scoop for tomorow's paper...

In case some of you still had doubts about the US Govt. being evil :

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905954,00.html
 
2003-03-01 11:15:23 PM
now thats the shiat america needs...
 
2003-03-01 11:18:41 PM
Bashturn: That scoop is a fraud. UK spelling. UK time. Name spelled wrong. See Drudge.
 
2003-03-01 11:19:49 PM
Bashturn -- why does that e-mail use the British spellings "emphasise" and "recognise" if it's really from the NSA?
 
2003-03-01 11:21:15 PM
Throughout the 8 years of the Clinton administration we heard regular ranting from the extreme, psychotic right wing lunatics about how Slick Willy was a murderer, a drug runner,a rapist, consorter with whores, and general embodiment of evil. How he and Hilary gleefully offed Vince Foster in the White House, as just the latest in a long string of tawdry murders and related felonies, from Mina, Arkansas to Washington. By God, Ken Starr would ferret out the truth; the indictments would be coming down any day now. ...Except that Clinton was planning on declaring martial law so he wouldn't have to leave office at the end of his 2nd term. "Honest, you can look it all up on the internet. It's all there."

Funny how the postings of BlobBrain, Bashturn, D8vo, etc. brought that thought to mind. ...You know, the psychotic rantings of paranoid extremists.

How about let's agree to meet back here in about 6 years, as W's term is winding down, and see just how many of these dire predictions have come to pass? I'll even spring for the first round.
 
2003-03-01 11:21:59 PM
 
2003-03-01 11:23:19 PM
Drudge !?! come on... Let's just say that the credibility of The Observer far outweighs Drudge <------ UNDENIABLE !
 
2003-03-01 11:23:34 PM
Csc10000: Thanks.
 
2003-03-01 11:27:58 PM
Doc_attheRadarStation:

6 years? I think you meant 2...

/counting the seconds
 
2003-03-01 11:29:41 PM
And as for the spelling abilities of high-powered civil-servants: Remember POTATOE.... Does it ring a bell ?

Doc_attheRadarStation : "Honest, you can look it all up on the internet. It's all there."

Ooooh... the Internet... then it must be true !
 
2003-03-01 11:31:38 PM
Drudge's credibility is not on the line here. Drudge only notes the problems in the letter.

Read it for yourself and decide. The Observer has to explain the obvious problems Drudge or any observant reader would note.

Your bias is showing.
 
2003-03-01 11:34:54 PM
Funny how you cannot be a critic of the US Govt. without being labelled a extremist nowadays....
 
2003-03-01 11:39:37 PM
Elevation:

Godspeed to your son. Extend our thanks for his service.
 
2003-03-01 11:43:46 PM
Thanks Doc and I will.
 
2003-03-01 11:46:25 PM
Elevation : Drudge's credibility is not on the line here. Drudge only notes the problems in the letter.
Read it for yourself and decide. The Observer has to explain the obvious problems Drudge or any observant reader would note.
Your bias is showing.


And yours is not ???

That really piss me off, I have been in the print news business all my adult life... You cannot print something like this without confirming your source... this is print ! not electronic media à la Drudge or Fox News.

I can tell you this much, no editor in the world would allow such article to go to press unless he has solid evidence that it is true.

Need I remind you The Observer does not fall under the category of a sleazy tabloid.

If you people want to play blind man, go ahead, read Time Magazine... It amazes me how people only wants to see things the way they want to see it.
 
2003-03-02 12:01:49 AM
Blah blah, blah blahdy blah. Yadda yadda, blah yadda blady. Blah blee, bloo bloo blahdy bloo....."Blahee blahoo, yaddiddly blah".

Blah yaddiddle, (blee blee yaddo) yammer yammer yahootle blah. [i]YADDA!!![/i]
 
2003-03-02 12:03:30 AM
Bashturn: In your earlier comment you derided Drudge's comments because of who he is, without dealing with the problems he noted.

It was a leaked memo. You may believe it's authentic because of your trust in print editors, but I don't share this trust.

I trust Bush, you trust the print media. That explains alot.
 
2003-03-02 12:16:18 AM
Elevation I do trust the print media, a lot more that I trust a web page that will be lost in cyberspace in a matter of hours. I also trust the leaders of 114 nations who in their turn, trust that UN inspections are effective. You trust Bush... And that, my friend, explains a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I would be the first one supporting millitary intervention in Iraq if it was justified, but I am affraid that under the current reasons given by the US Govt. Invasion will only provoke more attacks on US soil and global Anti-American sentiments.

Gentlemen, may I say that this evening was enlightening and I respect you all for your convictions. Good night.
 
2003-03-02 12:19:47 AM
Good night and sleep well. It was fun.
 
2003-03-02 12:24:37 AM
blob
we didn't install hussein
 
2003-03-02 12:33:16 AM
Zednaught: Fill me in, my friend. (that's not a pass)
 
2003-03-02 12:41:33 AM
A good capture. Now, if we can get the good Doctor who is second in command. Does anyone wonder why Usama has not sent videos instead of just audio tapes?
 
2003-03-02 12:42:45 AM
I need a donut.
 
2003-03-02 01:00:57 AM
BigPeeler My thoughts exactly. After reading this entire thread thats about all I can manage to think or say.
 
2003-03-02 01:06:28 AM
Elevation:

"In any case the US was wrong not to support the uprising after the 1st Gulf War. That much is true and it will not be repeated."

Really? Why do you believe that? Because Bush says so? Did you forget that presidents routinely lie to the public? Check these out: http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2549

http://www.rense.com/general31/bushlies.htm

This isn't a democrat/republican thing. Gore? Bush? I didn't vote for either one of those assholes...

"Those Iraqis support this new war despite that experience and this fellow is the exception."

Are you refering to the Iraqi National Congress to whom the PNAC has been funneling millions of taxpayer dollars, so the Bush Administration can hand pick Hussein's successor and ensure all big money contracts go to the "right" corporations? Or are you referring to the 100 to 200 thousand innocent Iraqi civilians who will be blown to pieces? Are you saying they support this war?

"As for your father, that is interesting because I worked in Bomb Nav in the 70's on the D-Model B-52. So I maintained the Navigation equipment he used. Perhaps I worked on a bomber that he flew. Brings back good memories for me, but I never flew them, just kept them flying so as to eventually break the back of the Russian bear."

Good memories. 2,000,000 Vietnamese killed because they attempted to choose a path different from the one the United States Government had in mind. 60,000 dead U.S. soldiers (including an uncle) for no justifiable reason whatsoever. Good memories. I remember some of my father's good memories. Waking up in terror in the middle of the night. Throwing away a CB radio that sounded too much like the radio in the B-52. Freaking out when the tornado siren went off one night, getting all of us out of bed and dressed post-haste so we could get into the bomber. Moving the family into the Ozark wilderness to live in tents, off the grid. Driving his family away from him. Keeping all the savings in silver under the house, and stock piling firearms and ammunition in preparation for the breakdown of society. Nice stuff. Be all that you can be. Fly high. (He got it all back together after 15 years).

"The events in the past that you mention are eclipsed by the goodness of America toward the world."

That is simply not true. Granted we directed taxpayer money to some good causes, but only a drop in the bucket. Our foreign policy, post WWII, has and continues to have nothing to do with peace, freedom or democracy. Nothing. Compared to what we could have and could do in this world, we should hang our heads.

"If not for the US, the world would a frightening place."

For the vast majority of the people on this planet, the world IS a frightening place. Good lord!

"Rail against Germany China or Russia if you must, because the damage those countries have done to the world dwarf any supposed US offense."

Even if that is true (and you supply no support for this assertion), that is no excuse for the hell we have inflicted on millions all over the globe.

And I don't give a damn what anybody thinks, I love my country, and if you say I am not a patriot because I wont kiss the ass of whatever president happens to be the flavor of the day, I'll knock your gay ass down, and spit tobacco in your eye. Damn sheep...

Why is it that we must automatically bow in reverence whenever anybody mentions the military, as if somehow soldiers should be held in reverence simply because they are soldiers? As if nobody else understands and lives by a code of honor?

In the words of Bill Hicks, shut the f/uck up! You are a bunch of hired thugs! When we want you to go blow the hell out of bunch of brown people, we'll let you know. Until then, SHUT THE F/UCK UP!

This country needs to reinstate the draft. First thing, right now. Otherwise, we have nothing more than a mercenary army ready to jump when the executive branch says jump, and despite whatever Hallmark bulls/hit sentimentality we are force fed about worshipping the ground the military walks on.

If we had a draft in place, there would be no plans to invade a country THAT HAS DONE NOTHING TO US!!!!


My son will fight in this war. He went into Afghanistan to help rescue those missionaries the Taliban were holding, and will go in on the ground into Iraq. My daughters asked me yesterday if their brother would die. The odds are good he will survive, but there is a risk. I trust the President and that is the difference between you and me.
 
2003-03-02 01:08:31 AM
Elevation:

"My son will fight in this war. He went into Afghanistan to help rescue those missionaries the Taliban were holding, and will go in on the ground into Iraq. My daughters asked me yesterday if their brother would die. The odds are good he will survive, but there is a risk. I trust the President and that is the difference between you and me."

I hope your boy comes home in better shape than the 1/3 of the gulf war vets who are crippled with gulf war syndrome (approx. 200,000 of them). I wish you had some basis for trusting Bush other than it feels good.
 
2003-03-02 01:19:06 AM
Strangely familiar wording for this link submission ... and in a couple others ...

Meanwhile, Khalid, meet Lolita,Tanqueray, Moose, Rocco, Stamper ...
 
2003-03-02 01:20:29 AM
BlobBrain Do you have devine insight? How do you know how many people will die? No one knows how this war, if it comes, will turn out. Where did you get that no. of casualties? We don't know if there will be much resistance. On the other hand, the whole country may oppose us.
 
2003-03-02 01:30:32 AM
JAdamS

"The report found that 'credible estimates of the total possible deaths on all sides during the conflict and the following three months range from 48,000 to over 260,000. Civil war within Iraq could add another 20,000 deaths. Additional later deaths from post-war adverse health effects could reach 200,000.' "

"And here's another conclusion from the report that major U.S. news outlets keep ignoring: 'In all scenarios, the majority of casualties will be civilians.'"

http://www.fair.org/media-beat/021205.html

Also:

"A newly leaked report from a special UN taskforce that summarises the assessments calculates that about 500,000 people could 'require medical treatment to a greater or lesser degree as a result of direct or indirect injuries', according to the World Health Organisation.

WHO estimates that 100,000 Iraqi civilians could be wounded and another 400,000 hit by disease after the bombing of water and sewage facilities and the disruption of food supplies.

'The nutritional status of some 3.03 million people will be dire and they will require therapeutic feeding,' says the UN children's fund. About four-fifths of these victims will be children under five. The rest will be pregnant and lactating women.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4593608,00.html
 
2003-03-02 01:34:26 AM
I certainly hope war will not occur. However, I think it will unless Saddam quits. History will reveal motives and anyone attempting to know the Bush admin. motives is just guessing are they not? I think there are so many factors in this situation that it's hard to sort them out if not impossible. Personally, I like to think our government leaders are doing their best and always hope for their success not matter the party.
I think the plan MAY BE to defeat Saddam because(1) He's vulnerable, (2) Iraq has one of the best infrastructures in the middle east, (3) if we can set up an Iraqi govt that is successful the rest of the dictatorships will become vulnerable and this could force earlier reform,(4) we can then put the pressure on Israel and the Palestinians to come around,(5) the fertile ground for terroism would deminish,(6) the rest of the world will come back around ,(7) evil regimes elsewhere will be at risk. A lot of BIG ifs. To do nothing means the status quo in the unstable area? So maybe the administrations' motives are noble? History only will tell.
 
2003-03-02 01:37:47 AM
So that wonderful military think tank the WHO knows what our tactics might be?
 
2003-03-02 01:52:08 AM
JAdamsS:

"I certainly hope war will not occur. However, I think it will unless Saddam quits."

But where is the justification for war?

"History will reveal motives and anyone attempting to know the Bush admin. motives is just guessing are they not?"

Have you read any parts of this thread at all? Please refer to my posts above. History tells us plenty. We should not limited ourselves to "ah, shucks, Opie, I shore do hopes we can trust the Administration" when we already have a wealth of information about U.S. foreign policy for the past 57 years (and it has NEVER been directed toward establishing freedom and democracy for others)

"I think there are so many factors in this situation that it's hard to sort them out if not impossible."

That's certainly what the Bush Administration wants you to think. And its not true. The U.S. population is not performing its patriotic duty to remain educated about current issues and keep an eye on the government.

"Personally, I like to think our government leaders are doing their best and always hope for their success not matter the party."

They are not doing their best, at least not for you or me, 99% of the time, no matter the party. History has proven this over and over and over and over again. We have no basis to believe otherwise now, and plenty of evidence that supports the conclusion that Bush's gameplan is ill-advised at best.

"I think the plan MAY BE to defeat Saddam because(1) He's vulnerable,"

Yeah, unlike North Korea, who is the real threat. Saddam is vulnerable because he is weak and poses no threat to us whatsoever. All the more reason not to kill a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians.

"(2) Iraq has one of the best infrastructures in the middle east,"

??? My god, you've hit it! You're right! Send the bombers now!!!! (wtf?)

"(3) if we can set up an Iraqi govt that is successful the rest of the dictatorships will become vulnerable and this could force earlier reform,"

That "if" will take you decades to chew and you will likely never swallow it. You have the stomach for that? I doubt the American public does... Then there are a few other ifs, woulds, and coulds in there. This is a reason for war?

"(4) we can then put the pressure on Israel and the Palestinians to come around,"

Yeah, war is peace, peace is war, war is peace, peace is war.... We'll bomb the s/hit out of Iraq for no reason, and the Palestinians will "come around." Yeah, the will come around, probably with bombs strapped to their chests...

"(5) the fertile ground for terroism would deminish,"
Mr. President? Eat your cookie, finish your milk, and its off to bed!
Ahhh, Uncle Cheny, do I hafta?

"(6) the rest of the world will come back around ,(7) evil regimes elsewhere will be at risk."

Look, up in the sky! Its Pie!

"To do nothing means the status quo in the unstable area?"

Why is our only choice bombing or nothing?
 
2003-03-02 01:54:51 AM
JAdamS: "So that wonderful military think tank the WHO knows what our tactics might be?"

Those were United Nations figures. They have some experience in this area. Hundreds of thousands will likely die. Quibble about the exact number if it pleases you--how many dead children and mothers are too much for you?
 
2003-03-02 01:56:27 AM
Elevation & Telemakhos complain about British spellings in NSA letter.

This is nothing new. British media routinely "correct" American spelling when presenting the text of a document or speech. BBC News is my favorite source of information -- but, they always (I've never seen a case where they didn't) Anglicize the spelling in US documents and present them as faithful reporoductions.
 
2003-03-02 02:03:52 AM
"but, they always (I've never seen a case where they didn't) Anglicize the spelling in US documents and present them as faithful reporoductions."

If its being presented as the actual memo, as it is in the artlice, no journalist or editor would correct the spelling.

Thats either BS or bad journalism.
 
2003-03-02 02:18:12 AM
Well, I hope the US doesn't want him back immediately or anything. There was an article in the news today how Pakistan tortured a confession out of some other airline hijacker a few years back, before killing him.

I think exactly the same sort of treatment would be beneficial here. The US could just sit back and wait for the intel to roll in and still keep their hands clean...

N.
 
Displayed 50 of 439 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report