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(MSNBC) NewsFlash Bill Clinton picks up two Asian chicks   (msnbc.msn.com ) divider line
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30881 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Aug 2009 at 4:34 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2009-08-04 05:22:56 PM  

Schmee: I question the wisdom of sending a quasi-government representative overseas to request the release of two prisoners who have admitted to purposefully violating the law of the nation holding them. That could blow up in our face.

Citation (sorry, no clickety pop): http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-lisaling,0,5340848.story​



I question the politics of somebody who isn't happy to see 2 young Americans freed from NK.
 
2009-08-04 05:22:58 PM  

Weaver95: A bit of advice to the Democrats - be very careful with supporting this kind of end run around the rules. In this case it worked...two innocent people got out of a nasty situation. But it sets a dangerous precedent for Obama to follow.


You're reaching (new window)

This kind of "end run" has been going on for a long, long time. That link is but a recent and widely known example.
 
2009-08-04 05:23:29 PM  

Flatulent_Flea: Can't we just give Weavers Dad his own account already?


Dad passed away in April.

Aaaaand I think i'm done.
 
2009-08-04 05:23:29 PM  
Another Democrat president who has accomplished more out of office than he did while in office.
 
2009-08-04 05:23:33 PM  

theoriginalslash: If the price of a job in the White House is a hummer


That was because he's a busy man. Don't you watch Chapelle?
 
2009-08-04 05:24:05 PM  

Devin172: And oh boy this must have been a fun trip for Clinton's secret service detail. Let's escort our protectee into the den of a maniacal madman ruling a country like his own land of make believe with hobbies like collecting hostages for shiats and giggles.


I have to believe that not even "Dear Leader" would be dumb enough to harm a former POTUS on a diplomatic mission. Imagine the retaliation... there wouldn't be a North Korea when that gets finished.
 
2009-08-04 05:24:14 PM  

Weaver95: PascalsGhost: Wow, I mean this thread has set you back on the ol' respect meter about 10 years. I mean, this is one of the stupidest analogies I've ever seen.

Ah, how fickle and fleeting is internet fame....

You just don't like what I had to say, that's all. I raised a valid objection, but you didn't want to hear it. So...suddenly i'm 'stupid'.

Hate to break this to you, but if I think something is wrong I'll call it out no matter who's doing it. I think that's the one thing I've learned from the Republicans - that sometimes you have to take a stand if something looks wrong. Even if it gets you yelled at by all the kewl kidz.

I think using Bill in this instance was questionable. It worked, it got those reporters out...but it was done off the books. Any time ANYONE does something like that, I'm going to question it, regardless of how effective the circumstances or the end result(s). And you should question it as well, or you would if you were honest with yourself.


Okay, at this point I think I'm understanding what you're trying to communicate.

You're worried about the slippery slope presented by the willingness of Obama (if this is an unofficial US act) to find loop-holes and go around the rules. The intent of said act being irrelevant to the act itself.

You took an extreme example (Haliburton) to represent the dangers of doing so.

Is that correct?
 
2009-08-04 05:24:14 PM  

Weaver95: 2. Why was *BILL* doing this? He's not a member of the US government. He holds no official position.
Correct.
He is not empowered to negotiate on behalf of the US government.
Correct.

How did he get involved in this and why was he permitted to go and negotiate for the release of these hostages?

I can't answer as to how he got involved, but he kind of has a lot of contacts in the government. He could probably ask for quite a bit, but that doesn't mean they have to give it to him. The same way that Barack's wife could ask Barack for something.

Why was he permitted to go?

The US has no travel restrictions on visiting North Korea. State dept travel advisories to NK (new window)

You could do the same if you thought you could bend Kim Jong Il' s ear and not end up in the cell next to the two reporters.

 
2009-08-04 05:24:28 PM  

Weaver95: It's probably not illegal, its just off the record and under the radar...which means something unethical got traded for those reporters.


You have evidence for that or more Weaver95 patented wharrgarbl?
 
2009-08-04 05:24:54 PM  

Weaver95: PascalsGhost: Wow, I mean this thread has set you back on the ol' respect meter about 10 years. I mean, this is one of the stupidest analogies I've ever seen.

Ah, how fickle and fleeting is internet fame....

You just don't like what I had to say, that's all. I raised a valid objection, but you didn't want to hear it. So...suddenly i'm 'stupid'.

Hate to break this to you, but if I think something is wrong I'll call it out no matter who's doing it. I think that's the one thing I've learned from the Republicans - that sometimes you have to take a stand if something looks wrong. Even if it gets you yelled at by all the kewl kidz.

I think using Bill in this instance was questionable. It worked, it got those reporters out...but it was done off the books.


He's a former president and statesman. Tempest in a teapot, bro.
 
2009-08-04 05:24:57 PM  

wh0mprat: Weaver95: And this strikes me as the sort of 'off the books' diplomacy that Bush did with Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bush did nothing diplomatic with Afghanistan or Iraq.


yeah, I think he misplaced the 'quotes' on that post.
 
2009-08-04 05:25:21 PM  

Weaver95: I think using Bill in this instance was questionable. It worked, it got those reporters out...but it was done off the books. Any time ANYONE does something like that, I'm going to question it, regardless of how effective the circumstances or the end result(s). And you should question it as well, or you would if you were honest with yourself.


Well, I'm sorry man, but I'm not satisfied with your argument regarding the equivalence of using former president Bill Clinton on a diplomatic mission and using a company that the then-vice president had fiscal ties with to help "liberate" a country in a war we didn't need in the first place.

I just don't see how the two are related. The circumstances are different, the outcome is different, there's no war profit to be made here (it could, in fact, be argued that war was averted, but I won't make that argument) and the whole thing is probably only going to cost us a tiny PR coup for a tinpot bullshiat country nobody cares about or trusts anyway.

I just don't see the connection.
 
2009-08-04 05:25:45 PM  
Hillary must be proud. I'll bet there's a very warm reception waiting for Bill back at home.

/still, though, glad he was successful in getting them released
//and she wasn't
 
2009-08-04 05:25:54 PM  

Weaver95: PascalsGhost: Wow, I mean this thread has set you back on the ol' respect meter about 10 years. I mean, this is one of the stupidest analogies I've ever seen.

Ah, how fickle and fleeting is internet fame....

You just don't like what I had to say, that's all. I raised a valid objection, but you didn't want to hear it. So...suddenly i'm 'stupid'.

Hate to break this to you, but if I think something is wrong I'll call it out no matter who's doing it. I think that's the one thing I've learned from the Republicans - that sometimes you have to take a stand if something looks wrong. Even if it gets you yelled at by all the kewl kidz.

I think using Bill in this instance was questionable. It worked, it got those reporters out...but it was done off the books. Any time ANYONE does something like that, I'm going to question it, regardless of how effective the circumstances or the end result(s). And you should question it as well, or you would if you were honest with yourself.


There is absolutely nothing morally or legal questionable about what happened here. You have a serious Clinton problem that is so bad you just humiliated your self with a comparison to Haliburton.

Everything that was done here was handled smoothly and worked. If you were an American before a Clinton hater, you'd appreciate that. You're a complete fool. I just forgot how bad.

"Off the books diplomacy". Read a history book you ignorant bastard.

Again, did the Clinton's murder people or have them killed?
 
2009-08-04 05:25:57 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Minus the bombing and the war profiteering. Which is the big difference.


Um, Clinton bombed people pretty often. He's smarter than Bush, though, which is why he skipped the land wars.
 
2009-08-04 05:25:57 PM  

Weaver95: 2. Why was *BILL* doing this? He's not a member of the US government. He holds no official position. He is not empowered to negotiate on behalf of the US government.



That's exactly why he was sent. Whatever he says or does is non-binding. It does not and cannot be construed as establishing formal diplomatic ties. He speaks for himself and not for the President and/or government; ergo the DPRK can't refuse to accept his response without corroboration from higher authority and it can't try to parlay it into a personal meeting with Obama.


How did he get involved in this and why was he permitted to go and negotiate for the release of these hostages?


Because he's a former President who, incidentally, is married to the Secretary of State. So he has the level of public prestige and reputation established, by himself and other former presidents, for going abroad on behalf of causes, thus giving him a high level of access to leadership. He is also easy to reach since the WH can approach him via his wife.
 
2009-08-04 05:27:03 PM  
PascalsGhost

1. You don't know a damned thing about my politics.
2. I'm quite happy for them and their families.
 
2009-08-04 05:27:20 PM  
To all the idiots in this thread complaining about how this was done, tell me how exactly this should have been done without getting spun into something bad by the conservatives. Please, do it, or else STFU.
 
2009-08-04 05:27:30 PM  

Schmee: PascalsGhost

1. You don't know a damned thing about my politics.
2. I'm quite happy for them and their families.


Just saying.
 
2009-08-04 05:27:31 PM  
Bill Clinton picks up two Asian chicks

Onry because he was so vely ronery. I understand Marc Rich paid the ransom.
 
2009-08-04 05:27:40 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Huh. Here I thought the OTHER Clinton was SecState.


Never send a woman to do a man's job.
 
2009-08-04 05:27:46 PM  

Flatulent_Flea: Can't we just give Weavers Dad his own account already?


shut up ass-wipe
 
2009-08-04 05:28:12 PM  

Tea_tempest_Cup: I have to believe that not even "Dear Leader" would be dumb enough to harm a former POTUS on a diplomatic mission. Imagine the retaliation... there wouldn't be a North Korea when that gets finished.



Too true. But there was a nice piece in the Post recently covering their training, how they always expect & prepare for the worst, the unlikely. So yeah, while you wouldn't expect it, I'd still bet they were as tense as a cat in a cage full of dogs.
 
2009-08-04 05:28:24 PM  

olddinosaur: I wonder how they "earned" all those medals at such an early age?


by killing little wussies like you.
 
2009-08-04 05:28:28 PM  

OscarTamerz: Bill Clinton picks up two Asian chicks

Onry because he was so vely ronery. I understand Marc Rich paid the ransom.


Once you go Oriental, math becomes fundamental?
Inscrutable, indeed.
 
2009-08-04 05:28:36 PM  
Mr. zobear thinks it's awesome that Bill Clinton is using his superpowers for good - flying around the world, visiting dictators, and helping Americans in need. He hopes Bill goes to Iran, next.
 
2009-08-04 05:28:37 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: lincoln65: WAY TO GO, CLINTON- that's all we needed! Let's give North Korea the legitimacy of governmental contact with the US.
And which branch of the government does Bill work for?


Well, he does carry slick black U.S. diplomatic passport number 2.
 
2009-08-04 05:28:40 PM  

YixilTesiphon: Um, Clinton bombed people pretty often.


Well that's completely farking irrelevant. Thanks for nothing.
 
2009-08-04 05:28:49 PM  

birchman: To all the idiots in this thread complaining about how this was done, tell me how exactly this should have been done without getting spun into something bad by the conservatives. Please, do it, or else STFU.


I can't vouch for other conservatives, but approaching the six nation squad that is dealing with North Korea right now, using the Secretary of State would have been my ideal option.
 
2009-08-04 05:29:00 PM  

Devin172: Tea_tempest_Cup: I have to believe that not even "Dear Leader" would be dumb enough to harm a former POTUS on a diplomatic mission. Imagine the retaliation... there wouldn't be a North Korea when that gets finished.


Too true. But there was a nice piece in the Post recently covering their training, how they always expect & prepare for the worst, the unlikely. So yeah, while you wouldn't expect it, I'd still bet they were as tense as a cat in a cage full of dogs.


Or as busy as a one-legged man at an ass-kicking contest.
 
2009-08-04 05:29:02 PM  

Weaver95: that whole 'end justifies the means' thing is what got the Bush administration into trouble. Now I see the Obama folks following suit.


Except they never much had an idea what the 'end' was supposed to be...

They were too caught up in the 'means'
 
2009-08-04 05:29:32 PM  

Hank Rearden: Don't be surprised if NK has a fancy new high speed internet infrastructure in the future... or maybe a new oil pipeline.

This was a business deal, and the two cute girls were a front.



Life has dealt you a lot of head trauma, hasn't it.
 
2009-08-04 05:29:41 PM  

JohnBigBootay: . I know you'd like to get all ross perot in a helicopter


I don't know why, but the phrase "Ross Perot in a helicopter" makes me laugh.
 
2009-08-04 05:29:48 PM  

Weaver95: PascalsGhost: You're suck a goddamned idiot Weav. Tell them how Clinton killed Vince Foster you farking retard.

that whole 'end justifies the means' thing is what got the Bush administration into trouble. Now I see the Obama folks following suit.

Sorry dude, but I calls 'em like I sees 'em. And this strikes me as the sort of 'off the books' diplomacy that Bush did with Iraq and Afghanistan.


Using a recognized ex-president as a diplomatic tool to secure the release of two prisoners = going against the international community to enter into an illegal war with Iraq?

God, you've gone full retard.

/note that I left out Afghanistan, a justified war.
//I'm kind of baffled why you included it
 
2009-08-04 05:29:55 PM  

TheRedMonkey: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Huh. Here I thought the OTHER Clinton was SecState.

Never send a woman to do a man's job.


They are just like the Wonder twins.
They don't have sex with each other.
 
2009-08-04 05:29:59 PM  

YixilTesiphon: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Minus the bombing and the war profiteering. Which is the big difference.

Um, Clinton bombed people pretty often. He's smarter than Bush, though, which is why he skipped the land wars.


While he was in North Korea, genius.
 
2009-08-04 05:30:10 PM  

Weaver95: well, when the Obama folks needed to get something important done, but didn't want to risk losing face, they had someone else take all the risk for them. Bush/Cheney used Haliburton for that sort of thing in Iraq. Obama used Bill Clinton for a bit of back door diplomacy in North Korea.

It's probably not illegal, its just off the record and under the radar...which means something unethical got traded for those reporters. It's just that I thought Obama wasn't going to go that route so soon is all. Bush/Cheney's motto was 'exitus acta probat', I just didn't expect Obama to start adopting those same tactics this quickly.

A bit of advice to the Democrats - be very careful with supporting this kind of end run around the rules. In this case it worked...two innocent people got out of a nasty situation. But it sets a dangerous precedent for Obama to follow.


You've veered dangerously into tinfoilhattery with this one, Weav.
 
2009-08-04 05:30:34 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: birchman: To all the idiots in this thread complaining about how this was done, tell me how exactly this should have been done without getting spun into something bad by the conservatives. Please, do it, or else STFU.

I can't vouch for other conservatives, but approaching the six nation squad that is dealing with North Korea right now, using the Secretary of State would have been my ideal option.


While the hostages rotted?

Again, 100% successful and handled smoothly. I predict the next thing will be on Fox and drudge will be questioning why we should free criminals that broke NK law. It's all they have.
 
2009-08-04 05:30:34 PM  

PascalsGhost: Anything else is literally putting party over country. Already doing it at fox. Same thing happened with the Pirates. The right likes being Republicans first, Americans second, and it is disgraceful. Seriously, just kill yourself.


The Democrats did it for 8 years but now its not ok?
 
2009-08-04 05:30:42 PM  
Whatever you guys are talking about WHO CARES This could have been a great asian chick thread, but oh no, we have to get all politicky and what not.
 
2009-08-04 05:30:46 PM  

Weaver95: Dad passed away in April.


Sorry, dude -- didn't know.
 
2009-08-04 05:31:00 PM  

Weaver95: Flatulent_Flea: Can't we just give Weavers Dad his own account already?

Dad passed away in April.

Aaaaand I think i'm done.


Well I think we know what he left you in his will, then.
 
2009-08-04 05:31:01 PM  

rastjr: Were they heavy?


Naw man. They don't have any food in North Korea.

*ducks*
 
2009-08-04 05:31:19 PM  

TheRedMonkey: PascalsGhost: Anything else is literally putting party over country. Already doing it at fox. Same thing happened with the Pirates. The right likes being Republicans first, Americans second, and it is disgraceful. Seriously, just kill yourself.

The Democrats did it for 8 years but now its not ok?


They did? They mutherfarked Bush when he got hostages freed? Source?
 
2009-08-04 05:31:26 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I don't know why, but the phrase "Ross Perot in a helicopter" makes me laugh.


I have this image of him complaining of black helicopters, while he's in a black helicopter, in my mind...
 
2009-08-04 05:31:47 PM  

MacEnvy: You've veered dangerously into tinfoilhattery with this one, Weav.


This might end up being known as the thread where Weaver95 finally went back to the Dark Side and of the deep end.
 
2009-08-04 05:32:02 PM  
img193.imageshack.us
Bill is FAST! Then again, Bill does have a way with women.
 
2009-08-04 05:32:13 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: birchman: To all the idiots in this thread complaining about how this was done, tell me how exactly this should have been done without getting spun into something bad by the conservatives. Please, do it, or else STFU.

I can't vouch for other conservatives, but approaching the six nation squad that is dealing with North Korea right now, using the Secretary of State would have been my ideal option.


The North Koreans wouldn't have gone for that. Or if they did, it would have taken years.

Wait. wait, wait, wait. Did a conservative just claim he would arrange some kind of multilateral, group discussion to come to an accord?

That sounds suspiciously like socialism, comrade.
 
2009-08-04 05:32:41 PM  

TheRedMonkey: Never send a woman to do a man's pimp's job.


FTFY :D
 
2009-08-04 05:32:48 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: MacEnvy: You've veered dangerously into tinfoilhattery with this one, Weav.

This might end up being known as the thread where Weaver95 finally went back to the Dark Side and of the deep end.


That would be off the deep end.
 
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