NikolaiFarkoff: But heaven forbid you don't cheer for a particular SEC football team. That's a lynchin'.

I bet most people in the South haven't met a guy who doesn't enjoy football.

TFA: people behind you in line in the grocery store say 'Do you know Jesus?'

Appropriate response: "Yeah, he's my gardener."

And your boss asks what church you attend."

I had a boss who prayed before company meetings and that Jesus was the reason I had a job.

And I'm in Pennsylvania.

\Well, Pennsyltucky.
\\It's like the Deep South except with fewer bugs and better weather

NikolaiFarkoff: As a "professional necessity," I've learned to fake interest pretty well in conversation. I usually just fall back on being too busy.

"I REJECT YOUR BELIEF IN ORGANIZED SPORTS, SHEEPLE!"

Professional sports is quite a bit like religion. People who reject it are looked down on, competing teams create rivalries among their fans, and they eat up a huge chunk of most people's Sundays.

I guess it's an enormously lucky break that Jesus was a fair haired white guy instead of some ethnicity that might be less popular in those places.

Whew.

The Icelander: TFA: people behind you in line in the grocery store say 'Do you know Jesus?'

Appropriate response: "Yeah, he's my gardener."

And your boss asks what church you attend."

I had a boss who prayed before company meetings and that Jesus was the reason I had a job.

And I'm in Pennsylvania.

\Well, Pennsyltucky.
\\It's like the Deep South except with fewer bugs and better weather

I have to agree that this isn't confined to the South and Midwest. I lived in New Orleans for a few years and the only assumption made was that I drank alcohol. OTOH, in the small, NEPA town where I presently exist, religious leanings are closely scrutinized: Believe in Jesus - Or Else.

FredaDeStilleto: I have to agree that this isn't confined to the South and Midwest. I lived in New Orleans for a few years and the only assumption made was that I drank alcohol. OTOH, in the small, NEPA town where I presently exist, religious leanings are closely scrutinized: Believe in Jesus - Or Else.

I think it's a rural/urban divide. I know that the only time I've had my car vandalized or been verbally assaulted for my non-belief was when I dared venture out of the Lancaster city limits.

Religious faith is absolutely an assumed thing where I come from. At least, in my career. So far as I can tell, I'm the only person among dozens who doesn't regularly go to church. I keep my mouth shut around them.

"Obvious" tag burned at the stake?

"Hellooooo? Anybody out there? Anyone?"

/"So ronery."

Well I was an atheist but now I think I have found my true calling. I am now a follower of smurfdom.

Bullsh*t. There's plenty of self proclaimed atheists in the Midwest. Granted, most of them make the claim because they're still pissed about that time in 3rd grade their parents sent them to Vacation Bible School.

GilRuiz1: "Hellooooo? Anybody out there? Anyone?"

Nonsense. All Canadians are atheists.

flamacue: Well I was an atheist but now I think I have found my true calling. I am now a follower of smurfdom.



//All hail the prophet Gruffy Gummi! Gruffy Ackbar!

Shilldog



//All hail the prophet Gruffy Gummi! Gruffy Ackbar!



Heretic! you shall be Azrael's chew toy for all of smurfternity for such blasphemy!

Thoguh: Makes sense to me, I bet if you did a poll of my co-workers they all assume I'm religious. Mainly because whenever they go off on their numerous bigotted tangents I just nod my head and ignore them. No reason to start a fight at work.

The same people insist that atheists are militant and angry. They don't realize that all we really want is for people to keep their religion or lack thereof to themselves.

I grew up in rural Indiana and now live in rural PA, I don't think I've ever had roving bands of Christians beat me up or vandalize my property, or try to convert me. Where the heck are you people going? All I ever got was the occasional Mormon.

I'd say here in Dallas we're on the cusp of this assumption - most people go to church but it doesn't usually bother anyone to hear that you don't. At least it hasn't been a problem for me.

BobtheFascist: There's plenty of self proclaimed atheists in the Midwest.

I agree with others that it's really more of an urban/rural divide. In some places everyone belongs to one of the churches and which one is like which football team you're on, it can really define your social circles.

timujin: When I was in college in Memphis I had a guy seated next to me ask me a question you hear quite frequently in that town, "So, where do you go to church?"

I told him I didn't and when he asked why I said, "Because I don't believe in god, I'm an atheist." He said, "Huh."

I thought that was it, but the next class he brought me a pamphlet and asked me to read it. It was one of those that explains that you can't be an atheist because then you're claiming you know for a fact that there is no god and the only way to know for sure is to claim you know everything so you're really not an atheist, you're really just an agnostic and since you're just an agnostic you might as well believe in Christ because at least that way you're hedging your bets.

If someone asks me, I just say I'm not religious. Usually they just chalk it up to my foreign heathen upbringing, but if they start pushing I just stay firm and say I'm not interested other than in an anthropological way, and furthermore I have no real desire to discuss it.

If the person then really gets into it, I might point out that around the world people who believe things contradictory to Christianity (or whatever the person believes in, but in the US it's pretty much guaranteed to be Christianity of some sort) and are every bit as fervent, so the verdict is still out, at least.

But honestly, the first serious hard core evangelist I ran into (a LONG time ago, FOB and naive) seriously believed that the majority of the world is damned to hell for not believing, and even if I were inclined to lean religious (which I'm not) that would have turned me off right there.

There might be one true way, but I'm not prepared to believe that anyone preaching actually knows what it is. :)

onecanshort: In that event, where is the line drawn with regards to pushing your faith onto your children?

It's an interesting question.

When it comes to healthcare, as you note there's been some cases on it recently (and have been for a few years), there's actually wiggle room when it comes to kids who are older teens and believing already on their own - say, 16. One might say they were brainwashed or whatever, but they've bought in, and are at an age not far from adulthood where they are starting to have more control over their own lives. 11, not so much.

That said, the people who want to shelter their kids to be sure that the religion "takes" do have a point - it's nice to say well, we'll let the kid choose when he gets older, but if you do that and the kid really sees a bunch of different viewpoints, all contradicting each other, all equally fervent and screaming about it, odds are the kid won't "take" to any religion, or possibly "take" to a different one. Or at best, be all "cafeteria" about it, not strict.

From my heathen POV (who saw religion largely this way myself) having the kid not go religious is a good thing, but for the parents who desperately want to pass their religion on, it's a tragedy. If you want your kids to follow in your path, you kinda HAVE to start pushing it on early, or it doesn't work. They need those years of blithely assuming "well everyone (normal) believes as we do, it's the only way I've ever heard of" for maximum results. Too much comparison, and you'll start looking at your own traditions in that same critical light (one reason why a lot of strict religionists are the biggest opponents of comparative religion classes).

Damn, an atheist thread AND a creationism thread in one day.

The mods must be crazy.

what_now: I think it's "don't be a dick". Most religions, at their core, have rules for you not to be a dick. They just have different definitions of what constitutes being a dick.

Yeah. Be a good citizen.

Thing is, people who get to that level, seeing the commonality like that (including with secular people who also believe in "don't be a dick") often get flamed mercilessly for being "cafeteria" or "too liberal" or whatever it is. All the extra trappings, the myriad rules, are very important to a lot of people.

I mean, people of other religions just don't understand, or maybe they mean well but are ignorant. But people from a "watered down" version of the one true religion who are rejecting its teachings? Anathema!!

Though come to think about it, endless infighting over tiny rules is common to just about any club or god forbid political party out there...

Pocket Ninja: It's sort of like electrolytes, when you think about it.

Atheism - it's got what plants crave.

Danielsan: I don't think I've ever had roving bands of Christians beat me up or vandalize my property, or try to convert me.

I've gone through about a dozen Darwin fish being torn off and occasionally broken in half. And that's in Harrisburg and Lancaster. I'm sure the patrons at Cracker Barrel didn't appreciate them.

onecanshort: In that event, where is the line drawn with regards to pushing your faith onto your children?

This is a debate the country needs to have. Is it okay to teach your kid that their friends and relatives are going to burn in hell for eternity? I don't think so. And it's definitely not okay to physically affect children for religious reasons, either through body modification or withholding medical treatment.

But in the case of the latter you run into idiots who seek out new age healers rather than doctors. And I think that should be as illegal as healing by prayer.

The Icelander: I'm sure the patrons at Cracker Barrel didn't appreciate them.

Well, it's called Cracker Barrel for a reason

Makh: And I have then heard how these people have met sooo many atheists and they were all assholes. Hundreds of them. That's why they can make this judgement. That was what my boss said.

Oh just wait until this goes green.

We'll soon be hearing about how all the atheists here are assholes.

Apparently that's our state of being.

Danielsan: Well, it's called Cracker Barrel for a reason

Once we had Lynyrd Skynyrd eat there. But that was before my shift started so I didn't get to see them.

But once a week in the summer we'd see busloads of Christian groups, either youth or elderly. And according to the servers they were almost universally lousy tippers.

\Though one table of Christen Jugen did give me a $1 tip
\\Didn't work for tips, but I appreciated it

Proof God doesnt exist.

The Icelander: This is a debate the country needs to have. Is it okay to teach your kid that their friends and relatives are going to burn in hell for eternity? I don't think so. And it's definitely not okay to physically affect children for religious reasons, either through body modification or withholding medical treatment.

Thing is, if you don't do it early, you won't do it at all.

The people who desperately want their kids to be religious KNOW this, and will (rightly, I think) point out that if you were somehow able to stop them indoctrinating their kids (merely enforcing secular public school attendance wouldn't be enough, if you could even go there) you'd be stopping their religion, at least in the fundier circles. That complaint would have to be dealt with. If doubt creeps in too early, a kid is ruined.

Weak squishy "spirituality" and the sorts of things that get called "cafeteria Catholicism" and the like would probably survive, but the hard core, generally you have to start it young.

There are people who become "born again" or "become BT" and the like as adults, but even they are often partly doing it to join a tightly unified group of true believers, that utter certainty and planned-out-ness of life is part of the attraction - and usually they think that THEY want to start their kids on the path early.

what_now: Should anyone even consider stopping them, also no. Fred Phelps has the right to teach his hatred to anyone who will listen. That doesn't make it ok.

I don't think he has a right to teach hatred to kids, though. If they're adults, by all means let them learn things. But I'd rather my daughter watch hardcore pornography than listen to Fred Phelps or any other fire-and-brimstone preacher. We have laws to prevent kids from being exposed to porn, why not laws to prevent them from being exposed to hate speech or mentally traumatic ideas.

itazurakko: The people who desperately want their kids to be religious KNOW this, and will (rightly, I think) point out that if you were somehow able to stop them indoctrinating their kids (merely enforcing secular public school attendance wouldn't be enough, if you could even go there) you'd be stopping their religion, at least in the fundier circles. That complaint would have to be dealt with. If doubt creeps in too early, a kid is ruined.

There's a big difference between religious instruction, which can be wholesome and generally benign, and the sort of abusive shiat I'm talking about.

Stuff like Jesus Camp, where the kids are forced to admit they're pathetic sinners and need to be saved, is nothing short of brainwashing.