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(Detroit Free Press)   If you had "4 days" for how long it would take the Cash for Clunkers money to be exhausted, please claim your prize   (freep.com) divider line 374
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12110 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2009 at 10:19 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-07-31 09:08:22 AM
No YOU'RE a Towel: Hmm, I thought the conservatives were trumpeting that no one was using it and it was humiliating for Obama?

Guess not.


It could easily be said that if the government can't administer a car program right, why the hell do you want them administering a healthcare program?
 
2009-07-31 09:18:05 AM
CitizenTed: The goal is not to 'save the planet'. The goal is to start taking steps to modify the American lifestyle to be more conservative (about energy usage). I'd have preferred tax incentives for higher MPG car ownership, but this pilot program shows that a moderate financial incentive can help make us more energy independent. I look forward to more incentives in the future.

I think tax incentives for ownership of efficient houses, on-demand water heaters, high-efficiency appliances and high MPG cars is the way to go. I really don't care if ultra-rich douchebags drive around in Ferraris. But I'd like to see working people get incentivized and jazzed about energy conservation. Yes, a new car generates more burned energy, resources and pollution than the gain from 16mpg to 27mpg. But that's the tradeoff now, today. The bigger picture is an American public becoming increasingly accustomed to energy efficiency and pollution reduction.


I think you are very misinformed. Look at Al Gore, the champion of our globe. That guy uses more energy in a week than I use in a year.

I am socially and fiscally conservative.
I have solar panels, my indoor temperature is set to 78 and I use fans when I am in the house. I compost, and belong to Trout Unlimited. I participate in waterway and road cleanup projects.
I have a tankless water heater that cost me 2x as much to install as simply replacing the old one.

I think, at least the hundreds of people I know who are like me conservative and employed and making a comfortable living are indeed good stewards of our resources, both financial and natural. It is indeed money to us keeping the electic bill down, and saving money through the use of technology - and sometimes simplification such as solar water heating for the pool. It is also about not damaging our natural resources any more than we have already have and helping return those we have to their pristine natural state.

So don't lump me in with what you percieve to be the evil conservatives. I've never met an Obama voter at a TU stream cleanup, but I have met plenty of conservative middle managers who enjoy the outdoors and want to keep it clean.

When Michael Moore or Al Gore start picking up debris from the shoreline I'll change my tune. Until then I'll believe that they simply are too elite to do anything responsible, but are more than happy to tell everyone else what to do.
 
2009-07-31 09:18:55 AM
This was a great idea.. I'm glad they did it..

But in typical government fashion.. it was HORRIBLY mismanaged. They have no REAL idea how many cars were sold under the program. They are only scared that the funds are gone. They don't know for sure.

There is so much paperwork, and backlogs, it will be a good year before this is all sorted out. Mark my words.

This is the same government that you want running healthcare? Cmon people. The government can't do anything right.

Get your heads out of your assess.
 
2009-07-31 09:19:11 AM
I saw this and thought about trading my 2009 M3 in for a Kia.

And then I remembered that I'm not poor.
 
2009-07-31 09:22:20 AM
Gyrfalcon: GAT_00: I guess that just proves that nobody was going to use it, it was too complicated to understand, and all that gibberish that the GOP spewed. I guess it should have been increased in money. You know, government helping it's people. No wonder the GOP fought so hard against it.

It was pretty goddamn awesome down here in So Cal, I can tell you that. Another side benefit: The tow truck operators dragging in some of these clunkers, and hauling them off to the scrap yards, have had to work overtime and put extra guys on to handle the extra work. They're delighted by the money coming in, and expect it to last for at least a few more weeks.

More trickle-down is expected as scrapyard dealers start hacking the beaters apart and start selling classic parts on eBay and other places, since some of the cars hauled in were genuine antique pieces of crap with parts restorers are probably looking for. Law of Unintended Consequences in reverse....


Bullshiat. The cars had to be driveable. They could not have been towed in. They also have to be stored by the dealer until such time as they recieve approval for the CARS payment so nothing is being towed away yet either.

You are simply lying.
 
2009-07-31 09:25:47 AM
glassa: No YOU'RE a Towel: Hmm, I thought the conservatives were trumpeting that no one was using it and it was humiliating for Obama?

Guess not.

It could easily be said that if the government can't administer a car program right, why the hell do you want them administering a healthcare program?


Christ, it will take them months to catch up with the backlog of transactions that need to be processed and approved, and we are talking about 250,000 CARS. Imagine if they had to try to keep up with the millions of health care transactions.

Feel free to brush it off though, Dems.
 
2009-07-31 09:27:03 AM
Ishidan: Then there's the administrative costs-the rebate is direct to the customer. The dealer still needs to get paid for putting up with it-no dealer is going to do all that paperwork without an incentive of his own.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go to the CARS.gov site and read about it.

There is no 'rebate' the dealer gets the money from the government, it never goes to the customer, it is simply a line item on the sales form.

It amazes me that people will argue from such ignorant positions. The information about it is readily available but for some reason you have formed your own incorrect idea of how the program operates and pontificate from ignorance.
 
2009-07-31 09:27:38 AM
FitzShivering: Insured receivables. The government is not likely to default on the payback, thus any necessary line of credit from the bank to cover deficiencies on cash flow will have lower risk attached to it.

Um, no. The government can deny payment based on any number of criteria.

Anyone else catch the segment on GMA this morning? The dealers that were all for this are starting to come out of the ether. There have been less than 25,000 approvals, the application process is torturous at best AND many are making customers sign rescission agreements agreeing to give back the new rides if they don't get paid...now here's the kicker on that little tidbit...you can't apply until the clunker has been disabled. The first step in this is to drain the oil, fill the crankcase with a silica based slurry and run the engine until it seizes.

As I said a few days ago:

Mongolian.
Clusterfark.
 
2009-07-31 09:29:50 AM
feckingmorons: Gyrfalcon: GAT_00: I guess that just proves that nobody was going to use it, it was too complicated to understand, and all that gibberish that the GOP spewed. I guess it should have been increased in money. You know, government helping it's people. No wonder the GOP fought so hard against it.

It was pretty goddamn awesome down here in So Cal, I can tell you that. Another side benefit: The tow truck operators dragging in some of these clunkers, and hauling them off to the scrap yards, have had to work overtime and put extra guys on to handle the extra work. They're delighted by the money coming in, and expect it to last for at least a few more weeks.

More trickle-down is expected as scrapyard dealers start hacking the beaters apart and start selling classic parts on eBay and other places, since some of the cars hauled in were genuine antique pieces of crap with parts restorers are probably looking for. Law of Unintended Consequences in reverse....

Bullshiat. The cars had to be driveable. They could not have been towed in. They also have to be stored by the dealer until such time as they recieve approval for the CARS payment so nothing is being towed away yet either.

You are simply lying.


Yeah, he is. To all of the story telling asshat liars in here. The owner of the "clunker" has to prove that the car was registered and insured within the past year.

Stop telling stories about all of the people that towed in a heap that was in the back yard for 40 years. It just proves what lying sacks of shiat you all are.
 
2009-07-31 09:30:31 AM
feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.
 
2009-07-31 09:34:51 AM
master_dman: This was a great idea.. I'm glad they did it..

But in typical government fashion.. it was HORRIBLY mismanaged. They have no REAL idea how many cars were sold under the program. They are only scared that the funds are gone. They don't know for sure.

There is so much paperwork, and backlogs, it will be a good year before this is all sorted out. Mark my words.

This is the same government that you want running healthcare? Cmon people. The government can't do anything right.

Get your heads out of your assess.


SECONDED!!!
 
2009-07-31 09:35:02 AM
Wow.. the air smells so much more fresh this morning with all those clunkers off the road. What a major improvement for the environment. Astounding.
 
2009-07-31 09:35:14 AM
Democrats+Government=FAIL
 
2009-07-31 09:37:17 AM
GAT_00: feckingmorons: I didn't enforce it, I have no ability to enforce it I just participated in the misguided give away of our tax money.

If it is free it is for me!

Just seems like if you're going to oppose a program you shouldn't use it. Principles and all. Just tells me what kind of person you are.



Your reasoning tells me what kind of person you are as well.

I disagree with federal highway dollars being used to strongarm states into requiring a 21 yr old drinking age. However, the states took the money, should I not drive on the roads?
 
2009-07-31 09:38:07 AM
Dancin_In_Anson: FitzShivering: Insured receivables. The government is not likely to default on the payback, thus any necessary line of credit from the bank to cover deficiencies on cash flow will have lower risk attached to it.

Um, no. The government can deny payment based on any number of criteria.

Anyone else catch the segment on GMA this morning? The dealers that were all for this are starting to come out of the ether. There have been less than 25,000 approvals, the application process is torturous at best AND many are making customers sign rescission agreements agreeing to give back the new rides if they don't get paid...now here's the kicker on that little tidbit...you can't apply until the clunker has been disabled. The first step in this is to drain the oil, fill the crankcase with a silica based slurry and run the engine until it seizes.

As I said a few days ago:

Mongolian.
Clusterfark.


Sounds just like the federal gov't. I feel sorry for the dealers and buyers because we all know they will get farked.

I can see the typical situation now:

Dealer: "Sir, in order to apply you must disable your car by seizing the engine so that it can never be used again. After that you sign the agreement that says you will forfeit your new car if the gov't denies your application"

Customer: "So what happens if the gov't farks this up like usual, runs out of money, and then makes me give my new car back? Do I just lose my new car and not get reimbursed for my old car that was destroyed."

Dealer: "Yup, that's just about right...take it up with your senator"

Customer:
 
2009-07-31 09:39:43 AM
Dancin_In_Anson: feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.


Yes they do.

Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

It also screws over anyone who needs a reliable used engine part as they have to ruin the engines in order to get paid. Yep, need a replacement cylinder head for that 97 Cutlass, well the price just went up because the supply went down.

Congress actually thought this was a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I am happy to get the money, but it is being taken from us in taxes anyway so I'd be happy to get a five pound block of government cheese at this point.
 
2009-07-31 09:40:24 AM
Squawker: Democrats+Government=FAIL

Let me FTFY:

Politicians + Platform + Money = Government = EPIC FAIL

Political affiliation has no part in the equation.
 
2009-07-31 09:41:02 AM
Squawker: Democrats+Government=FAIL

FTFY

or even worse Democrats+Unions=FAIL and cost me money.
 
2009-07-31 09:41:52 AM
Wow let let them run health care
 
2009-07-31 09:42:17 AM
Squawker: Democrats+Government=FAIL

Government=FAIL.

FTFY.
 
2009-07-31 09:43:52 AM
feckingmorons: Dancin_In_Anson: feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.

Yes they do.

Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

It also screws over anyone who needs a reliable used engine part as they have to ruin the engines in order to get paid. Yep, need a replacement cylinder head for that 97 Cutlass, well the price just went up because the supply went down.

Congress actually thought this was a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I am happy to get the money, but it is being taken from us in taxes anyway so I'd be happy to get a five pound block of government cheese at this point.


You just need to lower your expectations. The gov't rarely has a well-thought-out plan that is implemented in an orderly fashion. Just count on the gov't to take more and more taxes from you each year and waste more and more tax dollars every year....you'll never be disappointed again.
 
2009-07-31 09:44:32 AM
feckingmorons:

You're still here? It's Friday. Go pick-up your chick car.

www.caranddriver.com
 
2009-07-31 09:46:16 AM
Gwendolyn: car not care. I think I have a brain tumor or something

I hope you have your government mandated minimum coverage.
 
2009-07-31 09:47:19 AM
LeroyJankem: I saw this and thought about trading my 2009 M3 in for a Kia.

And then I remembered that I'm not poor.


Proof, once again, that money can't buy taste. ;)

/kidding, kinda
//hellofa car if you don't mind looking like a prick
 
2009-07-31 09:47:29 AM
tricycleracer: feckingmorons:

You're still here? It's Friday. Go pick-up your chick car.


What gives you the impression that I have not already done that. I do have to wander into the office once in a while.

/actually getting it at lunch time. They are removing the sticky protective plastic from parts of it, washing it, filling it with gas (the fecker takes premium - probably more value than the old suburban right there) and doing that other get ready crapola.
 
2009-07-31 09:47:45 AM
BlackCat23: 7of7: BlackCat23: didn't work out too well, did it?

Umm, if they sold 210k vehicles in a week and got rid of the same number of jalopies I'd say it worked out exactly as intended.

DId you miss the part where that's less than 10% of a single auto makers yearly sales? Drop in the bucket. I don't forsee this making any large dents in anything but wallets at this rate. Yes, yes, it did sell ~210k cars, that's all well and good. But many of those "jalopies" are in fact, not. Many of them also have perfectly usable parts on them, which could be used by salvage yards, but in this case can't because the feds call for the destruction of important parts, such as drivetrains, leaving another industry to suffer(though in reality, it's a drop in their bucket, as well; if the numbers overall stay this small, salvage likely won't be effected that much).

I don't see this as a success. Congrats. You outsold.... lemme see here... Acura, audi, various "Boutique" makers(rolls, bently, etc) hummer, Cadillac, and obiously more. But it all comes to less than 2% of total sales numbers. ~13.5 MILLION cars were sold in this country in 2008, yes, a 35 or so % dropoff from the year before, but the point still stands.

A great idea? A popular idea? One that we know people want and will use? Yes. Properly executed? Likely not. I can't tell you how to fix it, but it's pretty obvious that it didn't work quiet the way it was expected, or wanted to, that's all.


10 % in less than a week is f'ng amazing.

1 week is less than 2% of a year and they sold 10% of a years worth of cars in less than that.

As someone who works for a car company it sounds amazing to me.
 
2009-07-31 09:47:52 AM
All the people in here biatching about how wasteful, and worthless our government is..

What are you DOING about it?

NOTHING. You are all pussies. We let the government get this far out of control. Something needs to be done. NOW.

Talk to your friends. You need to get organized.
Talking to your Rep, or Senator will do no good. We need to do some good ol' fashioned protesting.

But, alas. Nobody will DO anything. Bunch of fat, lazy pussies.
We deserve this. Don't we.
 
2009-07-31 09:49:40 AM
master_dman: All the people in here biatching about how wasteful, and worthless our government is..

What are you DOING about it?

NOTHING. You are all pussies. We let the government get this far out of control. Something needs to be done. NOW.

Talk to your friends. You need to get organized.
Talking to your Rep, or Senator will do no good. We need to do some good ol' fashioned protesting.

But, alas. Nobody will DO anything. Bunch of fat, lazy pussies.
We deserve this. Don't we.


I ran for public office twice and lost. Nobody likes to hear that we are (were) overspending, they simply want traffic calming devices and a dog park. If we can't afford it, we can't have it will not get you elected.
 
2009-07-31 09:52:29 AM
master_dman: All the people in here biatching about how wasteful, and worthless our government is..

What are you DOING about it?

NOTHING. You are all pussies. We let the government get this far out of control. Something needs to be done. NOW.

Talk to your friends. You need to get organized.
Talking to your Rep, or Senator will do no good. We need to do some good ol' fashioned protesting.

But, alas. Nobody will DO anything. Bunch of fat, lazy pussies.
We deserve this. Don't we.


Quite the fan of John Stewart Mill aren't you?
 
2009-07-31 09:53:45 AM
mitEj: BlackCat23: 7of7: BlackCat23: didn't work out too well, did it?

Umm, if they sold 210k vehicles in a week and got rid of the same number of jalopies I'd say it worked out exactly as intended.

DId you miss the part where that's less than 10% of a single auto makers yearly sales? Drop in the bucket. I don't forsee this making any large dents in anything but wallets at this rate. Yes, yes, it did sell ~210k cars, that's all well and good. But many of those "jalopies" are in fact, not. Many of them also have perfectly usable parts on them, which could be used by salvage yards, but in this case can't because the feds call for the destruction of important parts, such as drivetrains, leaving another industry to suffer(though in reality, it's a drop in their bucket, as well; if the numbers overall stay this small, salvage likely won't be effected that much).

I don't see this as a success. Congrats. You outsold.... lemme see here... Acura, audi, various "Boutique" makers(rolls, bently, etc) hummer, Cadillac, and obiously more. But it all comes to less than 2% of total sales numbers. ~13.5 MILLION cars were sold in this country in 2008, yes, a 35 or so % dropoff from the year before, but the point still stands.

A great idea? A popular idea? One that we know people want and will use? Yes. Properly executed? Likely not. I can't tell you how to fix it, but it's pretty obvious that it didn't work quiet the way it was expected, or wanted to, that's all.

10 % in less than a week is f'ng amazing.

1 week is less than 2% of a year and they sold 10% of a years worth of cars in less than that.

As someone who works for a car company it sounds amazing to me.


Yes, and in 4 days they ran out of money that was supposed to last 4 months. In 4 days, they have worked up a backlog that will take months to fix. It took them 4 days to fark up a CAR program. How long do you think it will take them to fark up a Socialized Health Care program that will involve exponentially more people and monies?
 
2009-07-31 09:56:23 AM
Whine,whine,whine.

This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

It is getting inefficient cars off the roads, it is crating jobs in auto manufacturing and dealerships.

This is a sucessful government program.

The only wrong with it is that it needed to be larger.

Hope they come out with a second round of funds.
 
2009-07-31 09:56:42 AM
TheWizard: master_dman: All the people in here biatching about how wasteful, and worthless our government is..

What are you DOING about it?

NOTHING. You are all pussies. We let the government get this far out of control. Something needs to be done. NOW.

Talk to your friends. You need to get organized.
Talking to your Rep, or Senator will do no good. We need to do some good ol' fashioned protesting.

But, alas. Nobody will DO anything. Bunch of fat, lazy pussies.
We deserve this. Don't we.

Quite the fan of John Stewart Mill aren't you?


Never heard of him. Is that the news guy?
 
2009-07-31 09:58:49 AM
feckingmorons: master_dman: All the people in here biatching about how wasteful, and worthless our government is..

What are you DOING about it?

NOTHING. You are all pussies. We let the government get this far out of control. Something needs to be done. NOW.

Talk to your friends. You need to get organized.
Talking to your Rep, or Senator will do no good. We need to do some good ol' fashioned protesting.

But, alas. Nobody will DO anything. Bunch of fat, lazy pussies.
We deserve this. Don't we.

I ran for public office twice and lost. Nobody likes to hear that we are (were) overspending, they simply want traffic calming devices and a dog park. If we can't afford it, we can't have it will not get you elected.


Could be worse. You could put together a city revitalization plan, get it approved by the city, only to have them change it later on.

The change, city council was convinced by a developer that building a golf course would be a good idea and a source of revenue. That might have been true had there not been 2 other courses within 5 miles (one public, one private). Oh and that to build the new one they would have to use eminent domain to seize the farm of a family that didn't even live within the city's jurisdiction.

Years later, the city spent millions of dollars attempting to condemn the property and lost. They spent nearly as much money in that legal battle than they would have received in the revitalization money.

www.saveourfarm.com
 
2009-07-31 09:59:10 AM
feckingmorons: Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

The local "Ford House" took in a 1996 F 150 "Texas Oklahoma"* the other day. Brought in by an 86 year old guy that bought it new and drove it to the coffee shop every morning. 45K on the odometer. Besides a few door dings and other scratches this sled was perfect. Cold air, clean interior, everything worked, good glass etc. Worth 2500- 3K. A great starter truck for a kid that had saved up his summer lawn mowing money. Well, the government gave him 1500 over book and now this great little sled will be rendered into scrap and the dealership might get their money if they dot all the i's and cross all the t's properly.

*Texas Oklahoma = F 150 regular cab with 4.9 I-6, tilt, cruise, and not much else. Ford sold these by the metric asston.
 
2009-07-31 10:00:06 AM
rastjr: This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

Not by a long shot. If every dealer gets every penny then it can be called a success.
 
2009-07-31 10:00:21 AM
feckingmorons: Dancin_In_Anson: feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.

Yes they do.

Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

It also screws over anyone who needs a reliable used engine part as they have to ruin the engines in order to get paid. Yep, need a replacement cylinder head for that 97 Cutlass, well the price just went up because the supply went down.

Congress actually thought this was a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I am happy to get the money, but it is being taken from us in taxes anyway so I'd be happy to get a five pound block of government cheese at this point.


There are around 60 million vehicles registered in the U.S., 250k vehicles is squat
 
2009-07-31 10:02:37 AM
rastjr: Whine,whine,whine.

This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

It is getting inefficient cars off the roads, it is crating jobs in auto manufacturing and dealerships.

This is a sucessful government program.

The only wrong with it is that it needed to be larger.

Hope they come out with a second round of funds.


You can only troll every thread so long before people decide to ignore you. At least try to be creative.
 
2009-07-31 10:03:26 AM
rastjr: Whine,whine,whine.

This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

It is getting inefficient cars off the roads, it is crating jobs in auto manufacturing and dealerships.

This is a sucessful government program.

The only wrong with it is that it needed to be larger.

Hope they come out with a second round of funds.




I agree that this was a great idea.. and it did/will help a little.

But just like any government program, it has been mismanaged, and they have no REAL idea what it did as of yet. There is so much paperwork and backlogs.. they don't have a clue.

As people are pointing out.. hundreds, possibly thousands of people who were pre-approved, will be denied. They will have to take back the new car. Hopefully, their old car hasn't been destroyed already.

Everything the government touches, turns to shiat. It doesn't matter who is in there.. Dems.. Pubs..

They are both worthless piles of shiat.

Again. WE are to blame. WE let this happen.

The people didn't want bailouts. But they did it anyway.
The people don't want socialized medicine. But they WILL do it anyway.
 
2009-07-31 10:05:08 AM
Dancin_In_Anson: rastjr: This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

Not by a long shot. If every dealer gets every penny then it can be called a success.



Why do you think they won't?
 
2009-07-31 10:05:56 AM
Dancin_In_Anson: rastjr: This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

Not by a long shot. If every dealer gets every penny then it can be called a success.


He's a common troll. Please don't feed him.
 
2009-07-31 10:06:12 AM
aug3: feckingmorons: Dancin_In_Anson: feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.

Yes they do.

Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

It also screws over anyone who needs a reliable used engine part as they have to ruin the engines in order to get paid. Yep, need a replacement cylinder head for that 97 Cutlass, well the price just went up because the supply went down.

Congress actually thought this was a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I am happy to get the money, but it is being taken from us in taxes anyway so I'd be happy to get a five pound block of government cheese at this point.

There are around 60 million vehicles registered in the U.S., 250k vehicles is squat


Thanks for that brilliant statistic Ace. How many of those are drivable, for sale and at a price point of $3500 so that families that are less well off can have affordable transportation?
 
2009-07-31 10:07:01 AM
master_dman: rastjr: Whine,whine,whine.

This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

It is getting inefficient cars off the roads, it is crating jobs in auto manufacturing and dealerships.

This is a sucessful government program.

The only wrong with it is that it needed to be larger.

Hope they come out with a second round of funds.



I agree that this was a great idea.. and it did/will help a little.

But just like any government program, it has been mismanaged, and they have no REAL idea what it did as of yet. There is so much paperwork and backlogs.. they don't have a clue.

As people are pointing out.. hundreds, possibly thousands of people who were pre-approved, will be denied. They will have to take back the new car. Hopefully, their old car hasn't been destroyed already.

Everything the government touches, turns to shiat. It doesn't matter who is in there.. Dems.. Pubs..

They are both worthless piles of shiat.

Again. WE are to blame. WE let this happen.

The people didn't want bailouts. But they did it anyway.
The people don't want socialized medicine. But they WILL do it anyway.



I don't know how you can say this with certainty at this point.

Sure, it will take a while to straighten out but why is it assumed that hundred of thousands won't get paid?
 
2009-07-31 10:07:03 AM
aug3: feckingmorons: Dancin_In_Anson: feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.

Yes they do.

Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

It also screws over anyone who needs a reliable used engine part as they have to ruin the engines in order to get paid. Yep, need a replacement cylinder head for that 97 Cutlass, well the price just went up because the supply went down.

Congress actually thought this was a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I am happy to get the money, but it is being taken from us in taxes anyway so I'd be happy to get a five pound block of government cheese at this point.

There are around 60 million vehicles registered in the U.S., 250k vehicles is squat


Yeah, but those 250,000 vehicles were subsidized by taxpayer money so they are better than the other 60 million.
 
2009-07-31 10:07:20 AM
master_dman: TheWizard: master_dman: All the people in here biatching about how wasteful, and worthless our government is..

What are you DOING about it?

NOTHING. You are all pussies. We let the government get this far out of control. Something needs to be done. NOW.

Talk to your friends. You need to get organized.
Talking to your Rep, or Senator will do no good. We need to do some good ol' fashioned protesting.

But, alas. Nobody will DO anything. Bunch of fat, lazy pussies.
We deserve this. Don't we.

Quite the fan of John Stewart Mill aren't you?

Never heard of him. Is that the news guy?


"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself" -- John Stuart Mill

First quote they made me memorize at the Academy. I still prefer the (mis?)-attributed quote of Franklin.
 
2009-07-31 10:07:28 AM
It's a saying as old as mankind, when the people can vote to give themselves free stuff, their country will fall. Your government is keeping you distracted with bread and circuses while it slowly and inexorably enslaves you with chains of your own making. Farkin fools.
 
2009-07-31 10:10:33 AM
Dancin_In_Anson: rastjr: This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

Not by a long shot. If every dealer gets every penny then it can be called a success.


The program would be a success, but unfortunately that still doesn't make it an intelligent thing to do.
 
2009-07-31 10:11:02 AM
rastjr: Why do you think they won't?

4 days and the well is dry. Some dealers have not been able to get registered yet. All of less than 25,000 approvals have been given out and God only knows how many are pending. The entire program is a a pile of unknownsDancin_In_Anson: many are making customers sign rescission agreements agreeing to give back the new rides if they don't get paid...now here's the kicker on that little tidbit...you can't apply until the clunker has been disabled. The first step in this is to drain the oil, fill the crankcase with a silica based slurry and run the engine until it seizes.

and as I said before
 
2009-07-31 10:15:28 AM
This is my biggest worry about the Health care plan. They are grossly underestimating how many people will join (and how many companies will dump employee coverage after it's passed) and will have no money to pay for it.
 
2009-07-31 10:15:48 AM
Dancin_In_Anson: rastjr: Why do you think they won't?

4 days and the well is dry. Some dealers have not been able to get registered yet. All of less than 25,000 approvals have been given out and God only knows how many are pending. The entire program is a a pile of unknownsDancin_In_Anson: many are making customers sign rescission agreements agreeing to give back the new rides if they don't get paid...now here's the kicker on that little tidbit...you can't apply until the clunker has been disabled. The first step in this is to drain the oil, fill the crankcase with a silica based slurry and run the engine until it seizes.

and as I said before



Yes and so they stopped the program and will now administer the paperwork. They will pay to those eligible under the rules. If there is no money left and there are people who followed the rules, then Congress will probably appropriate more funds to cover it.

Not sure why that is so difficult to follow?
 
2009-07-31 10:16:53 AM
Farmerjohn48pan: It's a saying as old as mankind, when the people can vote to give themselves free stuff, their country will fall. Your government is keeping you distracted with bread and circuses while it slowly and inexorably enslaves you with chains of your own making. Farkin fools.

When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1821

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -- Thomas Jefferson

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. -- Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).
 
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