CitizenTed: The goal is not to 'save the planet'. The goal is to start taking steps to modify the American lifestyle to be more conservative (about energy usage). I'd have preferred tax incentives for higher MPG car ownership, but this pilot program shows that a moderate financial incentive can help make us more energy independent. I look forward to more incentives in the future.

I think tax incentives for ownership of efficient houses, on-demand water heaters, high-efficiency appliances and high MPG cars is the way to go. I really don't care if ultra-rich douchebags drive around in Ferraris. But I'd like to see working people get incentivized and jazzed about energy conservation. Yes, a new car generates more burned energy, resources and pollution than the gain from 16mpg to 27mpg. But that's the tradeoff now, today. The bigger picture is an American public becoming increasingly accustomed to energy efficiency and pollution reduction.

I think you are very misinformed. Look at Al Gore, the champion of our globe. That guy uses more energy in a week than I use in a year.

I am socially and fiscally conservative.
I have solar panels, my indoor temperature is set to 78 and I use fans when I am in the house. I compost, and belong to Trout Unlimited. I participate in waterway and road cleanup projects.
I have a tankless water heater that cost me 2x as much to install as simply replacing the old one.

I think, at least the hundreds of people I know who are like me conservative and employed and making a comfortable living are indeed good stewards of our resources, both financial and natural. It is indeed money to us keeping the electic bill down, and saving money through the use of technology - and sometimes simplification such as solar water heating for the pool. It is also about not damaging our natural resources any more than we have already have and helping return those we have to their pristine natural state.

So don't lump me in with what you percieve to be the evil conservatives. I've never met an Obama voter at a TU stream cleanup, but I have met plenty of conservative middle managers who enjoy the outdoors and want to keep it clean.

When Michael Moore or Al Gore start picking up debris from the shoreline I'll change my tune. Until then I'll believe that they simply are too elite to do anything responsible, but are more than happy to tell everyone else what to do.

Gyrfalcon: GAT_00: I guess that just proves that nobody was going to use it, it was too complicated to understand, and all that gibberish that the GOP spewed. I guess it should have been increased in money. You know, government helping it's people. No wonder the GOP fought so hard against it.

It was pretty goddamn awesome down here in So Cal, I can tell you that. Another side benefit: The tow truck operators dragging in some of these clunkers, and hauling them off to the scrap yards, have had to work overtime and put extra guys on to handle the extra work. They're delighted by the money coming in, and expect it to last for at least a few more weeks.

More trickle-down is expected as scrapyard dealers start hacking the beaters apart and start selling classic parts on eBay and other places, since some of the cars hauled in were genuine antique pieces of crap with parts restorers are probably looking for. Law of Unintended Consequences in reverse....

Bullshiat. The cars had to be driveable. They could not have been towed in. They also have to be stored by the dealer until such time as they recieve approval for the CARS payment so nothing is being towed away yet either.

You are simply lying.

Ishidan: Then there's the administrative costs-the rebate is direct to the customer. The dealer still needs to get paid for putting up with it-no dealer is going to do all that paperwork without an incentive of his own.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go to the CARS.gov site and read about it.

There is no 'rebate' the dealer gets the money from the government, it never goes to the customer, it is simply a line item on the sales form.

It amazes me that people will argue from such ignorant positions. The information about it is readily available but for some reason you have formed your own incorrect idea of how the program operates and pontificate from ignorance.

FitzShivering: Insured receivables. The government is not likely to default on the payback, thus any necessary line of credit from the bank to cover deficiencies on cash flow will have lower risk attached to it.

Um, no. The government can deny payment based on any number of criteria.

Anyone else catch the segment on GMA this morning? The dealers that were all for this are starting to come out of the ether. There have been less than 25,000 approvals, the application process is torturous at best AND many are making customers sign rescission agreements agreeing to give back the new rides if they don't get paid...now here's the kicker on that little tidbit...you can't apply until the clunker has been disabled. The first step in this is to drain the oil, fill the crankcase with a silica based slurry and run the engine until it seizes.

As I said a few days ago:

Mongolian.
Clusterfark.

feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.

Dancin_In_Anson: feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.

Yes they do.

Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

It also screws over anyone who needs a reliable used engine part as they have to ruin the engines in order to get paid. Yep, need a replacement cylinder head for that 97 Cutlass, well the price just went up because the supply went down.

Congress actually thought this was a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I am happy to get the money, but it is being taken from us in taxes anyway so I'd be happy to get a five pound block of government cheese at this point.

Squawker: Democrats+Government=FAIL

FTFY

or even worse Democrats+Unions=FAIL and cost me money.

tricycleracer: feckingmorons:

You're still here? It's Friday. Go pick-up your chick car.

What gives you the impression that I have not already done that. I do have to wander into the office once in a while.

/actually getting it at lunch time. They are removing the sticky protective plastic from parts of it, washing it, filling it with gas (the fecker takes premium - probably more value than the old suburban right there) and doing that other get ready crapola.

BlackCat23: 7of7: BlackCat23: didn't work out too well, did it?

Umm, if they sold 210k vehicles in a week and got rid of the same number of jalopies I'd say it worked out exactly as intended.

DId you miss the part where that's less than 10% of a single auto makers yearly sales? Drop in the bucket. I don't forsee this making any large dents in anything but wallets at this rate. Yes, yes, it did sell ~210k cars, that's all well and good. But many of those "jalopies" are in fact, not. Many of them also have perfectly usable parts on them, which could be used by salvage yards, but in this case can't because the feds call for the destruction of important parts, such as drivetrains, leaving another industry to suffer(though in reality, it's a drop in their bucket, as well; if the numbers overall stay this small, salvage likely won't be effected that much).

I don't see this as a success. Congrats. You outsold.... lemme see here... Acura, audi, various "Boutique" makers(rolls, bently, etc) hummer, Cadillac, and obiously more. But it all comes to less than 2% of total sales numbers. ~13.5 MILLION cars were sold in this country in 2008, yes, a 35 or so % dropoff from the year before, but the point still stands.

A great idea? A popular idea? One that we know people want and will use? Yes. Properly executed? Likely not. I can't tell you how to fix it, but it's pretty obvious that it didn't work quiet the way it was expected, or wanted to, that's all.

10 % in less than a week is f'ng amazing.

1 week is less than 2% of a year and they sold 10% of a years worth of cars in less than that.

As someone who works for a car company it sounds amazing to me.

master_dman: All the people in here biatching about how wasteful, and worthless our government is..

What are you DOING about it?

NOTHING. You are all pussies. We let the government get this far out of control. Something needs to be done. NOW.

Talk to your friends. You need to get organized.
Talking to your Rep, or Senator will do no good. We need to do some good ol' fashioned protesting.

But, alas. Nobody will DO anything. Bunch of fat, lazy pussies.
We deserve this. Don't we.

I ran for public office twice and lost. Nobody likes to hear that we are (were) overspending, they simply want traffic calming devices and a dog park. If we can't afford it, we can't have it will not get you elected.

feckingmorons: Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

The local "Ford House" took in a 1996 F 150 "Texas Oklahoma"* the other day. Brought in by an 86 year old guy that bought it new and drove it to the coffee shop every morning. 45K on the odometer. Besides a few door dings and other scratches this sled was perfect. Cold air, clean interior, everything worked, good glass etc. Worth 2500- 3K. A great starter truck for a kid that had saved up his summer lawn mowing money. Well, the government gave him 1500 over book and now this great little sled will be rendered into scrap and the dealership might get their money if they dot all the i's and cross all the t's properly.

*Texas Oklahoma = F 150 regular cab with 4.9 I-6, tilt, cruise, and not much else. Ford sold these by the metric asston.

rastjr: This progam is a sucess and you are still complaining.

Not by a long shot. If every dealer gets every penny then it can be called a success.

aug3: feckingmorons: Dancin_In_Anson: feckingmorons: The cars had to be driveable.

But they have to be disabled at the dealership.

Yes they do.

Of course that screws over the poor people that need a good driveable used car. Screws over college students and the pizza delivery guy since they are taking 250K vehicles out of the pool of reliable used cars.

It also screws over anyone who needs a reliable used engine part as they have to ruin the engines in order to get paid. Yep, need a replacement cylinder head for that 97 Cutlass, well the price just went up because the supply went down.

Congress actually thought this was a good idea.

Don't get me wrong I am happy to get the money, but it is being taken from us in taxes anyway so I'd be happy to get a five pound block of government cheese at this point.

There are around 60 million vehicles registered in the U.S., 250k vehicles is squat

Thanks for that brilliant statistic Ace. How many of those are drivable, for sale and at a price point of $3500 so that families that are less well off can have affordable transportation?

rastjr: Why do you think they won't?

4 days and the well is dry. Some dealers have not been able to get registered yet. All of less than 25,000 approvals have been given out and God only knows how many are pending. The entire program is a a pile of unknownsDancin_In_Anson: many are making customers sign rescission agreements agreeing to give back the new rides if they don't get paid...now here's the kicker on that little tidbit...you can't apply until the clunker has been disabled. The first step in this is to drain the oil, fill the crankcase with a silica based slurry and run the engine until it seizes.

and as I said before