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(New York Daily News)   NYPD says man needs to register his flintlock, despite NYC law that says he doesn't have to register it   (nydailynews.com) divider line 488
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18371 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2009 at 4:06 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-07-30 04:30:16 PM
They can have my trebuchet when they can pry it from my cold dead back yard.
www.naturelich.com
 
2009-07-30 04:30:23 PM
I wish people who wish to outlaw guns would simply do it the way our forefathers intended; through a Constitutional amendment, rather than passing ridiculous laws.
 
2009-07-30 04:30:44 PM
Bored Horde: gshepnyc: Making sure the government is always a little afraid of the people is much better than the people ever being afraid of government. A utopia where neither one occurs is not possible and there is no point in pretending it might be. Some countries come fairly close but government is a necessary evil that by its very existence always poses some threat to its own people.

This is a regulation by the municipal government, not the federal government insofar as I know. An interesting distinction and one worth noting in antigovernment rants.


it is a distinction, but a wrongly imposed one. Municipalities should not be allowed to enact laws and regulations counter to the US Constitution.

I fully understand that this is subject about which people have strong feelings. But would you accept that certain towns, counties, states, etc., decided to pick and choose among our other rights?

And ultimately government is government. Federal, local, state. All holes in the same seive. No one citizen is subject to just one of them. We all have all of them. The money they spend all comes from the same sources.
 
2009-07-30 04:30:51 PM
Excen: /Mortars and Recoilless Rifles included

Politics is the art of the possible. You're only going to get laughed out of the room if you argue people should be able to own heavy weaponry without heavy, restrictive regulations.
 
2009-07-30 04:30:59 PM
Bored Horde: gshepnyc: Making sure the government is always a little afraid of the people is much better than the people ever being afraid of government. A utopia where neither one occurs is not possible and there is no point in pretending it might be. Some countries come fairly close but government is a necessary evil that by its very existence always poses some threat to its own people.

This is a regulation by the municipal government, not the federal government insofar as I know. An interesting distinction and one worth noting in antigovernment rants.


A municipal regulation limiting a constitutional (federal) right...
 
2009-07-30 04:31:05 PM
rastjr: dittybopper: rastjr: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?


How is registering punishment?

$300+ in fees, plus having to hire a NYC lawyer to fill out the paperwork? In essence, doubling the cost of a *VERY* nice handgun from $800 or so to $1600 or more? That's not punishment?


It's the price of living in our society. Don't like it, change the laws.


I can't, they took my guns away.
 
2009-07-30 04:31:11 PM
i253.photobucket.com

This sends a clear message to the lawless punks that are stupid enought to even THINK that they can break into the Brap Compound and come out unscathed.

If you dare to enter I WILL massage you and preach the benefits of renters insurance. Believe you me, you will NOT leave without purchasing at LEAST a liability policy with reasonable deductible.

I "Shiatsu" you not!

(That's my closer, gets 'em every time. You can borrow it if you like.)
 
2009-07-30 04:31:51 PM
meow said the dog: If there is the law and he is not the violationer of this law then he should not be forced to obey the law that he is not violating. So I do not understand the issue of this.

Yeah, that's a tough one. He's saying it's an antique gun. The cops are saying it isn't. The cops' argument is probably that if he just had it made, it's not antique. Because antiques are old and shiat. His argument is that the way you load it makes it "antique." I know the article says he's right, but, even though I don't like gun registration laws in general, I think there is a tad more to the issue than his interpretation must be the right one. I also don't trust reporters. The story is just better if it says his interpretation is right and the cops are making a guy register a gun that he doesn't even have to register.

Bottom line, though, this is a waste of time and money for the city to pursue this. I hope his interpretation is correct, and it could be, but I have my doubts whether a newly made gun is antique.
 
2009-07-30 04:31:55 PM
Bored Horde: Excen: You know, the Third Reich made all Jews register and wear nifty armbands before shipping them off to the death camps. I'll let you draw the proper correlation yourself.

Yep, getting someone to register a gun is exactly the same as stuffing jews into an oven.


It's a short jaunt for New York to adopt the City of Chicago's policy on handguns, and when that happens, what do you think the NYPD is going to do about "illegal" arms? You will have two options: turn them in for less-than-retail compensation, or sell them to out-of-jurisdiction third parties.

Granted, they're going to use a steamroller not Zyklon B on them, but the point still stands.

/A well-armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein
//I guess that explains why New Yorkers are such pricks
 
2009-07-30 04:32:09 PM
Alleyoop: Looks like it's time to whip this out...

that's funny. To be the devil's advocate I think the part of that that people are divided on is the 'well-regulated militia', not 'the people'.

Before I get killed I'd just like to say I support the individual right to own firearms so this ain't about that. But I'd like to know what the hell they were thinking about when they wrote that shiat? If it's just about being able to own guns, why didn't they leave the militia shiat out - just in the interest of clarity if nothing else.
 
2009-07-30 04:32:20 PM
Bored Horde: pd771: People shouldn't need to move to have their constitutional rights.

There are at least 4x the number of people living in NYC as lived in the entire USA in 1776. Times change, so do regulations.


Then they should change them through proper procedure; Amend the Constitution. Instead the make unconstitutional laws that not enough have the guts to fight.
 
2009-07-30 04:32:50 PM
Paging dittybopper, would you please...

Oh, I see you're already well-engaged in this thread. Color me shocked ;)
 
2009-07-30 04:33:07 PM
rastjr: You have alts?

I thought it was against the rules to have alts?


It's not. I am an alt. I have at least four accounts here, one of which I only use via a proxy server because the modmins do not like me much. I found this odd when reading the Fark rules for the 100th time just now:

# Don't post NSFW (Not Safe For Work) images or unlabeled NSFW links.
# Don't post graphic images or links to graphic content.

This doesn't seem to make sense.
 
2009-07-30 04:33:07 PM
DOES NOT APPROVE
http://tinyurl.com/l6qybk
(copy and paste)
 
2009-07-30 04:33:22 PM
Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom: I brought this up in another thread last week, but figured it's worth a repeat:

I ordered this video game controller off the internet, and had to have the handle shipped to out-of-state relatives because they couldn't ship HALF A PLASTIC GUN to New York City.



Making it worse, the handle looks like this when you take it off the controller:



/Generations of politicians pandering to anti-gun kooks.


Is that thing worth a shiat for FPS?
 
2009-07-30 04:33:34 PM
Snarfangel: I thought a flintlock rifle was the one weapon everyone agreed was covered by the Second Amendment.

I agree, all the proponents of gun control are always stating something to the tune of: these laws were written when gun use was a complicated process. Now these same people have to back pedal to fulfill their own fascist agendas.
 
2009-07-30 04:33:38 PM
 
2009-07-30 04:33:40 PM
Every day I feel less sorry for these tyrants when someone blows a gasket and gets all shooty or stabby on them.

This shiat DOES NOT farkING PREVENT CRIME.
 
2009-07-30 04:33:57 PM
NewportBarGuy: SchlingFocker: The people who want to see a police state come about, with American subjects instead of citizens, would prefer to see ZERO firearms in the hands of subjects.

It feels more like the people who want a police state are the same gun owners looking for some kind of armed conflict so they can act out their Red Dawn masturbatory fantasies.


It's good to see we're being openminde here and not polarizing the issue at all.

WOLVERINES!
 
2009-07-30 04:33:59 PM
Bored Horde: Excen: You know, the Third Reich made all Jews register and wear nifty armbands before shipping them off to the death camps. I'll let you draw the proper correlation yourself.

Yep, getting someone to register a gun is exactly the same as stuffing jews into an oven.


Registering guns makes it easier to figure out who you should attempt to stuff in the oven last.
 
2009-07-30 04:34:00 PM
ITT: Scary People
 
2009-07-30 04:34:26 PM
rastjr: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?


How is registering punishment?


wait - so you admit you live in fear?

innnnteresting.
 
2009-07-30 04:34:33 PM
If another couple of years, most of the slightly more educated anti-gun freaks out there will be begging for firearms.

For protection from the parasites who are no longer going to receive their monthly stipend from the .gov, because the .gov has run out of money.

It's ok, they will start robbing homes in those areas where guns are verboten first. Like Chicago, NYC and DC (yeah, try and get one)

It will be bittersweet to watch.

But I will laugh at you.

TXL
 
2009-07-30 04:34:49 PM
Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom: I brought this up in another thread last week, but figured it's worth a repeat:

I ordered this video game controller off the internet, and had to have the handle shipped to out-of-state relatives because they couldn't ship HALF A PLASTIC GUN to New York City.

Making it worse, the handle looks like this when you take it off the controller:

/Generations of politicians pandering to anti-gun kooks.


what the hell game is that for?
 
2009-07-30 04:35:00 PM
dittybopper: He's sold a handful, but it's mostly a hobby.

He's been doing it since before I was born, and I'm in my 40's now. He didn't make this particular one, but here's a picture of me with his Royland Southgate longrifle as a very young'un:



/Black powder and patch lube in my veins.


Heh, reminds me of a high school buddy whose dad handed him an engraved (read: electro-penciled) Chipmunk about ten minutes out of the womb.

Although I'm basing this on a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I'm going to have to say that your dad is very talented. He should advertise in American Rifleman or something. There's still plenty of blackpowder enthusiasts around.
 
2009-07-30 04:35:04 PM
pd771: Then they should change them through proper procedure; Amend the Constitution. Instead the make unconstitutional laws that not enough have the guts to fight.

So rally your fellow americans to fight the laws? Last time I checked, there are elections where politicians can be elected, and politicians tend to have the ability to write and change law.
 
2009-07-30 04:36:03 PM
rastjr

It's the price of living in our society. Don't like it, change the laws.

Being around people with guns is a price of living in the United States.

JohnBigBootay

If it's just about being able to own guns, why didn't they leave the militia shiat out - just in the interest of clarity if nothing else.

Perhaps they never thought so many people could be ignorant as to who makes up the militia (i.e., all of us).
 
2009-07-30 04:36:31 PM
fight the good fight, littlejohn.

if the law says you can have antique firearms without a license, then it's your right not to. the nra would probably represent you for free.
 
2009-07-30 04:36:48 PM
JosephFinn: The Constitution also says he has to join a militia.


Not according to the Supreme Court. They finally weighed in on this issue recently and guess what - the second amendment is an individual right to firearms.
 
2009-07-30 04:37:36 PM
NewportBarGuy: SchlingFocker: The people who want to see a police state come about, with American subjects instead of citizens, would prefer to see ZERO firearms in the hands of subjects.

It feels more like the people who want a police state are the same gun owners looking for some kind of armed conflict so they can act out their Red Dawn masturbatory fantasies.


They can have my gun when they pry it from my hot, sticky fingers.

/giggity
 
2009-07-30 04:38:30 PM
albo: LAPD - Protect and serve

I thought it was "we beat brown people"?


jonasborg: Why does this seem like a repeat?

No, it only loads one bullet.
 
2009-07-30 04:38:33 PM
Weaver95: rastjr: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?


How is registering punishment?

wait - so you admit you live in fear?

innnnteresting.



If I couldn't fathom logical converse statements, I'd live in fear too.
 
2009-07-30 04:38:43 PM
Bored Horde: So rally your fellow americans to fight the laws? Last time I checked, there are elections where politicians can be elected, and politicians tend to have the ability to write and change law.

And they have the right to amend the constitution. Instead of doing that (because many disagree with them), they write laws that are unconstitutional. So they should be fought in court. I'm personally not a gun owner, but I'm against the government taking my rights away.
 
2009-07-30 04:38:50 PM
SeamusFerrell: rastjr: You have alts?

I thought it was against the rules to have alts?

It's not. I am an alt. I have at least four accounts here, one of which I only use via a proxy server because the modmins do not like me much. I found this odd when reading the Fark rules for the 100th time just now:

# Don't post NSFW (Not Safe For Work) images or unlabeled NSFW links.
# Don't post graphic images or links to graphic content.

This doesn't seem to make sense.



Didn't know that. People scream like little girls about alts on here so much that I thought is was against the rules.
 
2009-07-30 04:39:12 PM
Alleyoop: Looks like it's time to whip this out...
("The People" means *the people* in all amendments but the 2nd graphic)


The 2nd has the NRA fighting for it, with a pretty large budget. While I wish the ACLU would take a firmer stance in support of the 2nd amendment, you don't see a national organization dedicated to the 1st, 4th, 5th... etc amendments.

Oh wait, yes you do. It's the ACLU.

They're just picking their battles. I would like to think that if the NRA ceased to exist, the ACLU would spread their already over-extended ranks to cover the 2nd as well.
 
2009-07-30 04:39:39 PM
txlewis: If another couple of years, most of the slightly more educated anti-gun freaks out there will be begging for firearms.

For protection from the parasites who are no longer going to receive their monthly stipend from the .gov, because the .gov has run out of money.

It's ok, they will start robbing homes in those areas where guns are verboten first. Like Chicago, NYC and DC (yeah, try and get one)

It will be bittersweet to watch.

But I will laugh at you.

TXL


Here's your exercise for the day:

-Print out your last post

-hang it on your fridge next to the calendar

- on 7/30/2011 take a look and say to yourself, "now why am I such a cock?", and resolve to be a better person in the future. Not a better 'gun person', just a better person in general.
 
2009-07-30 04:39:43 PM
Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom: I brought this up in another thread last week, but figured it's worth a repeat:

I ordered this video game controller off the internet, and had to have the handle shipped to out-of-state relatives because they couldn't ship HALF A PLASTIC GUN to New York City.



Making it worse, the handle looks like this when you take it off the controller:



/Generations of politicians pandering to anti-gun kooks.


That looks like a cool force feedback controller, what game is it for?

Does it work OK?
 
2009-07-30 04:40:25 PM
dittybopper: Dancin_In_Anson: dittybopper: That picture is from around 2000-ish. Yes, I have indeed. In fact, that picture up above is me in all my Maguan glory loading it at the last station of this years Southern Vermont Primitive Biathlon.

I've let the brass tarnish, only because carrying around the equivalent of a flashing mirror when you are hunting is kinda counterproductive.

Oh how cool is that? My Dad gave me a Winchester 1886 .38-56 many years ago. It sat idle until a friend of mine cut 200 rounds down from some .45-70 brass as a gift. I would love to take a nice trophy with it...shoots like a dream but it's difficult to figure past 100 or so yards. A 250 grain bullet like gravity.

See that knife on the flag, and on my belt? He made it. The handle is made from one of the antlers of a buck I shot back in 1996 or 97.

He also made me these bows:



(I made the quiver and the arrows in that last one)

/Grew up in a house full of weapons, many custom made.
//Coolest dad *EVAR*.


What wood did he use?
/yea primitive!!!!
 
2009-07-30 04:40:29 PM
rastjr: How is registering punishment?

In the same way that charging a poll tax was a punishment.
 
2009-07-30 04:40:38 PM
dittybopper: I have a loading block that keeps my patched balls ready to go, and I pre-make paper cartridges. I also have a small priming doohickey.

Here is my loading sequence:
1. Vent pick goes in the touch hole, frizzen down to hold it.
2. Tear open cartridge, pour powder down the barrel.
3. Put loading block on muzzle, slam a ball down with short starter.
4. ram it all the way down with ramrod.
5. Remove pick, dribble some 4F into pan from doohickey, close frizzen.
6. Fire.

It's pretty quick and easy to do.


I would not want to get into the relative arugment of what is "quick and easy" for you

;)
 
2009-07-30 04:41:04 PM
TheIndependent: rastjr: pd771: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?

He's a troll. Ignore him.


I think the fact that I have been consistent in my views on many subjects proves I am not a troll.

Well it certainly proves that you are not able to appropriately comprehend the US constitution from any rational point of view.



Last I checked you have to register. In this case it was a loophole. The loophole should be fixed and he should be required to register it.

If he doesn't than the cops should take it away form him.
 
2009-07-30 04:41:47 PM
rastjr: Excen: dittybopper: rastjr: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?


How is registering punishment?

$300+ in fees, plus having to hire a NYC lawyer to fill out the paperwork? In essence, doubling the cost of a *VERY* nice handgun from $800 or so to $1600 or more? That's not punishment?

Plus, when the right to keep and bear arms is finally allowed to be infringed upon completely by the government, those doing the infringing have a convenient list of everybody with arms to be confiscated. THAT is why I have a problem with having to register any type of gun.

/Mortars and Recoilless Rifles included


That's kind of paranoid.


Smartassed comment about heavy weaponry aside, why is this such a far-fetched idea? It's illegal to possess or carry handguns in the city of Chicago. There were multiple documented cases of firearms being confiscated during the Hurricane Katrina disaster. Imagine if martial law were declared due to a political uprising of the masses against the government (think Dubya on Methamphetamine injections). A list of all firearms would be very beneficial to a fascist junta trying to quash the will of the people.

/Granted, we would have to elect Palin v2.0 for that to happen. . .
 
2009-07-30 04:42:29 PM
sdaas: rastjr: dittybopper: rastjr: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?


How is registering punishment?

$300+ in fees, plus having to hire a NYC lawyer to fill out the paperwork? In essence, doubling the cost of a *VERY* nice handgun from $800 or so to $1600 or more? That's not punishment?


It's the price of living in our society. Don't like it, change the laws.

I can't, they took my guns away.



We change the laws with guns?
 
2009-07-30 04:43:21 PM
Weaver95: rastjr: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?


How is registering punishment?

wait - so you admit you live in fear?

innnnteresting.



Did I say that? Think real hard.
 
2009-07-30 04:43:40 PM
eqtworld: dittybopper: eqtworld: So can you carry a flintlock in NYC or not?

I bet some modern gun company could make a "technical flintlock" with the workings encased in a double or triple barrel pistol configuration to be sold in NYC to those who wish to legally carry

No. NYC and NYS law treats a loaded flintlock handgun the same as a modern handgun - It has to be registered.

They consider a muzzleloader to be loaded if you have the materials needed to load it, ie., powder and ball for a flintlock, and also caps if it's a percussion gun.

You can *OWN* one, without the materials to load it, with no restrictions according to the law. That's what this guy is doing, and they are trying to nail him for it, simply because he accidentally left a receipt for it at the local Staples and somebody wet their panties about it.

So basically you can't have any kind of working firearm.

/Unless you are a criminal


Can't have any kind of unregistered working firearm. You are allowed to keep the weapon after it is registered.

Something about this story doesn't add up. He has (or had) a lawyer. He has what appears to be a solid legal claim that a specific law permits him to own the gun without registration.

If that is the case, then he should have absolutely no problem winning a court case. It should also be clear to the police that they have absolutely no way of winning a case against him.

If that is true, why continue to pursue it? There must be some reason for them to believe there is a legal justification for demanding the registration. I am not saying that I can't believe that it can't be personal or political pressure - it just seems bizarre for them to devote resources to a certain loss.
 
2009-07-30 04:43:52 PM
What is the point of having yet another gun debate. If you don't want citizens to be able to arm themselves, fight to repeal the second amendment. Until then, any argument to disarm those who obey the law is without merit.
 
2009-07-30 04:44:04 PM
Excen: There were multiple documented cases of firearms being confiscated during the Hurricane Katrina disaster.

And thankfully they were ordered by the courts to return them. Link (new window)
 
2009-07-30 04:44:09 PM
txlewis

It will be bittersweet depressing as all hell to watch, because it means the collapse of the republic and American civilisation.

Very few of us are bad-ass enough to survive such things. Those of us who are will be largely at the mercy of sheer luck to begin with. Sucktastic times for anyone.

I do not consider myself bad-ass enough to survive a collapse of society. In the nineties, I led a fireteam of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children in what used to be Yugoslavia. I think a lot of Americans underestimate the absolute misery and degradation that goes hand in hand with such changes.

dittybopper and a handful of traditionalist natives will be all that survive.

Apart from the mutants, CHUDs and sex-slaves, of course.

I would rather break both legs than see the "parasites" descend upon the "urban elites" that have no guns.
 
2009-07-30 04:44:23 PM
rastjr: TheIndependent: rastjr: pd771: Weaver95: rastjr: Even thought the law says it is not needed, I side with the cops.

It is a dangerous weapon and it should be registered.

He has a "right" to it but I have a right to my safety and peace of mind.

so because you live in fear, you want to punish those of us who don't?

He's a troll. Ignore him.


I think the fact that I have been consistent in my views on many subjects proves I am not a troll.

Well it certainly proves that you are not able to appropriately comprehend the US constitution from any rational point of view.


Last I checked you have to register. In this case it was a loophole. The loophole should be fixed and he should be required to register it.

If he doesn't than the cops should take it away form him.


The cops should not have a right to take people's property just because you don't like it. It ought to be staggeringly hard for them to do so and the penalties upon them for doing it unjustly ought to be severe.

Freedom has a price. In this case it means you don't always get to tell your neighbors how to live. In return, they don't get to tell you, either.
 
2009-07-30 04:44:46 PM
txlewis: If another couple of years, most of the slightly more educated anti-gun freaks out there will be begging for firearms.

For protection from the parasites who are no longer going to receive their monthly stipend from the .gov, because the .gov has run out of money.

It's ok, they will start robbing homes in those areas where guns are verboten first. Like Chicago, NYC and DC (yeah, try and get one)

It will be bittersweet to watch.

But I will laugh at you.

TXL



You should see a mental health professional.
 
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