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(RealClearPolitics)   "So, thank you, professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. and President Obama, for starting the long-awaited national discussion on black and white identity - while averting our attention from the cockamamie scheme to nationalize health care."   (realclearpolitics.com) divider line 725
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8764 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jul 2009 at 2:20 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-07-27 10:19:42 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... **cough... WMD's... cough**
 
2009-07-27 10:22:04 AM
You realize Obama is doubtless really pissed off that an hour press conference on healthcare has been overshadowed by the media's obsession with his 30 second answer at the end to a totally unrelated question?
/you stupid farkwad
 
2009-07-27 10:32:42 AM
patrick767: You realize Obama is doubtless really pissed off that an hour press conference on healthcare has been overshadowed by the media's obsession with his 30 second answer at the end to a totally unrelated question?
/you stupid farkwad


It's his own fault for not stopping after admitting that he didn't know all the facts and that he might be biased because he knew Gates. I agree the matter had no relevance to the topic at hand whatsoever, but Obama should have left it with those two points and moved on.
 
2009-07-27 10:33:15 AM
patrick767: You realize Obama is doubtless really pissed off that an hour press conference on healthcare has been overshadowed by the media's obsession with his 30 second answer at the end to a totally unrelated question?

Obama controls the questions that are asked, doesn't he? If he had a heads up that this question was going to be asked, then he has no one but himself to blame for that.

That being said, I do find it funny that once rumblings of releasing the tapes are made, all of a sudden Mr. Gates wants to move past this incident. Coincidence? Possibly, but call me skeptical.
 
2009-07-27 10:34:32 AM
Nabb1: It's his own fault for not stopping after admitting that he didn't know all the facts and that he might be biased because he knew Gates. I agree the matter had no relevance to the topic at hand whatsoever, but Obama should have left it with those two points and moved on.

maybe, but can we at least all agree that this isn't some masterstroke to absorb attention from the healthcare debate?
 
2009-07-27 10:34:33 AM
A discussion about race? Who the hell wants to get into one those one sided debates?
 
2009-07-27 10:36:05 AM
KaponoFor3: Obama controls the questions that are asked, doesn't he? If he had a heads up that this question was going to be asked, then he has no one but himself to blame for that.

Oh please, the media was looking for any way out of this, anything else to focus on instead of what needed to be focused on. If they didn't have this, they'd make up something else.
 
2009-07-27 10:40:06 AM
thomps: Nabb1: It's his own fault for not stopping after admitting that he didn't know all the facts and that he might be biased because he knew Gates. I agree the matter had no relevance to the topic at hand whatsoever, but Obama should have left it with those two points and moved on.

maybe, but can we at least all agree that this isn't some masterstroke to absorb attention from the healthcare debate?


"Master stroke"? No, it was not a master stroke at all. The President allowed himself to completely undermine his entire press conference on the health care reform issue.
 
2009-07-27 10:41:55 AM
thomps: maybe, but can we at least all agree that this isn't some masterstroke to absorb attention from the healthcare debate?

I'd sure as hell hope not.

GAT_00: Oh please, the media was looking for any way out of this, anything else to focus on instead of what needed to be focused on. If they didn't have this, they'd make up something else.

So it's the media's fault for asking the question and having Obama give a shiatty answer?
 
2009-07-27 10:42:05 AM
Right, because arresting a rather famous local professor in his own home for a charge that has no chance of being prosecuted, you did something very un-stupid.

When will you step down, Obama? When?
 
2009-07-27 10:47:59 AM
KaponoFor3: That being said, I do find it funny that once rumblings of releasing the tapes are made, all of a sudden Mr. Gates wants to move past this incident.

I wonder if you might have a citation for that, please?
 
2009-07-27 10:48:07 AM
KaponoFor3: So it's the media's fault for asking the question and having Obama give a shiatty answer?

Last I checked, the media decided what they're going to run with. They were never going to run with the health care story. There is no sensationalism in it, no benefit in talking about how the country will be a better place. Better this than what they would be running, which would probably be some idiotic GOP "counterpoint" that was just more partisan gibberish along the lines of everything is fine now.
 
2009-07-27 10:48:25 AM
Meh. Obama personally called the cop to make amends. You'll get over it
 
2009-07-27 10:48:52 AM
palladiate: Right, because arresting a rather famous local professor in his own home for a charge that has no chance of being prosecuted, you did something very un-stupid.

You Gates apologist stun me with your unwillingness to recognize reality, even when it slaps you in the face.
 
2009-07-27 10:53:56 AM
propasaurus: I wonder if you might have a citation for that, please?

Sure: From Yesterday, July 26 -- Black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. says he's ready to move on from his arrest by a white police officer, hoping to use the encounter to improve fairness in the criminal justice system and saying "in the end, this is not about me at all."

Or were you looking for a citation on rumblings about releasing the tapes?
 
2009-07-27 10:57:49 AM
Release of tapes may contain "angry rants." (new window)
 
2009-07-27 11:02:23 AM
KaponoFor3: propasaurus: I wonder if you might have a citation for that, please?

Sure: From Yesterday, July 26 -- Black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. says he's ready to move on from his arrest by a white police officer, hoping to use the encounter to improve fairness in the criminal justice system and saying "in the end, this is not about me at all."

Or were you looking for a citation on rumblings about releasing the tapes?


No, I'm asking for a citation that the supposed release of the tapes is what's making Gates want to move on.
 
2009-07-27 11:04:12 AM
Woman who phoned 911 to report break-in "didn't cite race":

In an interview last night, Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas said it was ac curate that Whalen did not mention race in her 911 call. He acknowledged that a police report of the incident did include a race reference. The report says Whalen observed "what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the front porch'' of a Ware Street home on July 16.

That reference is there, said Haas, because the police report is a summary. Its descriptions - like the race of the two men - were collected during the inquiry, not necessarily from the initial 911 call, he said.

...

Hass said yesterday that he expects some version of the tapes to be released in the next few days.
 
2009-07-27 11:05:23 AM
propasaurus: No, I'm asking for a citation that the supposed release of the tapes is what's making Gates want to move on.

You don't think it's a reasonable inference that when the Cambridge police publicly mull releasing the tapes and Gates suddenly goes from CNN appearances to "moving on" that there is a possible relationship between the two?
 
2009-07-27 11:06:37 AM
propasaurus: No, I'm asking for a citation that the supposed release of the tapes is what's making Gates want to move on.

Oh well, you'll never find that cause it's more speculation than anything else -- you think Gates would just come out and say "oh shiat the tapes are going to come out... err... let's put this behind us".

The timing sure is coincidental given the outrage that Gates had at the beginning of this situation, don't ya think?
 
2009-07-27 11:06:54 AM
KaponoFor3
So it's the media's fault for asking the question and having Obama give a shiatty answer?


No, it's Obama's fault for giving a shiatty answer. It's the media's fault for going with wall-to-wall coverage of that 30 second answer while practically ignoring the real issue that will actually have an impact on our lives.
 
2009-07-27 11:07:58 AM
patrick767: No, it's Obama's fault for giving a shiatty answer. It's the media's fault for going with wall-to-wall coverage of that 30 second answer while practically ignoring the real issue that will actually have an impact on our lives.

I'll agree with that, but this seems to generate more discussion/passion than the healthcare debate, and if it's one thing the media cares about, it's circulation/ratings and concurrently advertising dollars. I'm not really surprised.
 
2009-07-27 11:09:28 AM
sepuku2: A discussion about race? Who the hell wants to get into one those one sided debates?

We have a black president now. Race is no longer an issue or something.
 
2009-07-27 11:11:31 AM
Nabb1: Release of tapes may contain "angry rants." (new window)

angry ranting in your home - an arrestable offense.
 
2009-07-27 11:12:19 AM
I thought America had moved beyond race...?

Just sayin'.
 
2009-07-27 11:13:04 AM
I still don't see how Obama's answer was wrong. The cops acted stupidly that's the bottom line. Ultimately I bet no matter how Obama responded the right wing and the media would have turned it into an opportunity to whaargarble.
 
2009-07-27 11:14:47 AM
WaltzingMathilda: Nabb1: Release of tapes may contain "angry rants." (new window)

angry ranting in your home - an arrestable offense.


No, it's not, but when you have made your point to a cop, and he's leaving your house and walking away, conceding the entire dispute to you, following him outside to continue to berate him is a poorly thought out course of action. I would not be surprised if he played the "Do you know who I am?" card.
 
2009-07-27 11:17:24 AM
Who is at fault doesn't matter any more. The race warriors now have their race war. That's the important thing.
 
2009-07-27 11:18:12 AM
7of7: Ultimately I bet no matter how Obama responded the right wing and the media would have turned it into an opportunity to whaargarble.

Knowing that (and I agree with your statement), then why even allow the question to get through? Obama is usually smarter than that. A political miscalculation?

Nabb1: . I would not be surprised if he played the "Do you know who I am?" card.

Nothing on these tapes are going to validate the arrest of Gates, period. They will, however, paint him in an extremely negative light if he really can be heard screaming at the cop in the background, calling him a racist, or playing the "Do you know who I am" card.
 
2009-07-27 11:27:21 AM
Nabb1: WaltzingMathilda: Nabb1: Release of tapes may contain "angry rants." (new window)

angry ranting in your home - an arrestable offense.

No, it's not, but when you have made your point to a cop, and he's leaving your house and walking away, conceding the entire dispute to you, following him outside to continue to berate him is a poorly thought out course of action. I would not be surprised if he played the "Do you know who I am?" card.


i know, i'm not really all that passionate about this debate. i do think that even "without all the facts" Obama was probably right in saying the police acted stupidly. However, it would have sounded better if he had said "everyone acted stupidly."
 
2009-07-27 11:29:15 AM
Bufu: I thought America had moved beyond race...?

Just sayin'.


Eric Holder holds us all in contempt for our lack of courage in debating race. He called us cowards, as I recall. Well, I for one salute Mr. Gates, Obama and that whitey for bringing white police brutality to the forefront. I think America has a right to know who the racist was in that confrontation so we can all see for once and for all, who was the bigot. I would love to have all of the audio and video tapes of that incident released completely, and I hope that Mr. Obama and Mr. Gates and the officer will be courageous in their desire to provide us with the truth, not some biased words by the arrestee, or the biased police officers (weren't there like seven of them there?) or the neighbor who saw the whole thing.

Lets have it all on the table...Rodney King style.
 
2009-07-27 11:31:00 AM
WaltzingMathilda: Nabb1: WaltzingMathilda: Nabb1: Release of tapes may contain "angry rants." (new window)

angry ranting in your home - an arrestable offense.

No, it's not, but when you have made your point to a cop, and he's leaving your house and walking away, conceding the entire dispute to you, following him outside to continue to berate him is a poorly thought out course of action. I would not be surprised if he played the "Do you know who I am?" card.

i know, i'm not really all that passionate about this debate. i do think that even "without all the facts" Obama was probably right in saying the police acted stupidly. However, it would have sounded better if he had said "everyone acted stupidly."


Maybe. I still think the best course of action would have been to say, "I heard about it, and it raises some concerns, but I don't know all the facts and I know Prof. Gates personally, so my opinion may be biased. Next question."

[I'm not really that passionate about the issue, either. So, a Harvard professor got into an argument with a cop and got arrested for a misdemeanor which then got dropped? BFD. The lesson there, still, is when the cop is leaving, don't go after him to mouth off.]
 
2009-07-27 11:38:05 AM
is it racist if i can't read "Henry Louis Gates Jr." without thinking of Lou Gossett Jr.?
 
2009-07-27 11:39:30 AM
Nabb1: The lesson there, still, is when the cop is leaving, don't go after him to mouth off

No, according to the police report, the lesson is when an officer tells you that he'll give you his badge number and name outside, and you would like to ask more questions to please step out with him, you say "no."

I can tell you from personal experience you never do this, nor do you invite a police officer into your home, for any reason. He can lie in the course of his duties to serve a warrant. And if the warrant doesn't actually exist or anything, and nobody can produce to your lawyer the warrant corresponding to the warrant number he gave your roommate he arrested, you do not have standing to sue for the thousands of dollars of damage he did in wrecking the place in the course of his duties. The duty of arresting your completely pliant roommate who wasn't resisting arrest.

Who knew arrest required you to drive a guys head through the wall three times and break a couple of picture frames? The cuffs just don't go on until you do that.
 
2009-07-27 11:41:52 AM
palladiate: And if the warrant doesn't actually exist or anything, and nobody can produce to your lawyer the warrant corresponding to the warrant number he gave your roommate he arrested, you do not have standing to sue for the thousands of dollars of damage he did in wrecking the place in the course of his duties. The duty of arresting your completely pliant roommate who wasn't resisting arrest.

www.twittfr.com
 
2009-07-27 11:43:39 AM
Cooler heads should prevail in this instance. It may not have been racist but it is in the officer's discretion to make an arrest or not. It was not warranted to arrest him for yelling and causing a disturbance in this particular case. He was not inciting violence.

They are in a upper middle class neighborhood. There was no danger to anyone involved. This is a policeman getting upset, losing his professionalism and resorting to one of the worst solutions to resolving this incident.

And whoever assigned Crowley as a 'racial profiling expert' is obviously not a very good judge of character.
 
2009-07-27 11:47:58 AM
palladiate: Nabb1: The lesson there, still, is when the cop is leaving, don't go after him to mouth off

No, according to the police report, the lesson is when an officer tells you that he'll give you his badge number and name outside, and you would like to ask more questions to please step out with him, you say "no."


Probably a good idea. Since the officer was responding to a 911 call, there is likely a dispatch record identifying the responding officer should you chose to complain to the department or the public integrity bureau (or whatever equivalent they have).

I can tell you from personal experience you never do this, nor do you invite a police officer into your home, for any reason. He can lie in the course of his duties to serve a warrant. And if the warrant doesn't actually exist or anything, and nobody can produce to your lawyer the warrant corresponding to the warrant number he gave your roommate he arrested, you do not have standing to sue for the thousands of dollars of damage he did in wrecking the place in the course of his duties. The duty of arresting your completely pliant roommate who wasn't resisting arrest.

Say what, now?
 
2009-07-27 11:49:52 AM
Since the onset of this debate, it has always struck me as more of a scary police-state kind of shenanigans than a racist cop kind of shenanigans. In any case, I like that Obama thinks it is stupid. It is stupid. As soon as it was clear that Gates was not a burglar, the cops should have left.

Now maybe hearing the audio tapes or whatever other evidence there is will make me change my mind, but right now it seems to be a pretty clear case of a cop forgetting that "to protect and serve" is his primary job description.
 
2009-07-27 11:50:20 AM
Nabb1: you do not have standing to sue for the thousands of dollars of damage he did in wrecking the place in the course of his duties. The duty of arresting your completely pliant roommate who wasn't resisting arrest.

Say what, now?


Maybe some cops decided to search inside couch cushions, walls, and TV in order to find some stuff.
 
2009-07-27 11:50:55 AM
I_C_Weener: Eric Holder holds us all in contempt for our lack of courage in debating race. He called us cowards, as I recall.

Yeah, and he was pretty much dead on in that assessment.

Let me ask you a question: Do you think that the people (on both sides) who are using this idiotic incident to inflame racial tensions are acting "courageously"?

Come back 5 hours from now and peruse this thread after it hits the main page. Or read how this incident is being portrayed by our favorite partisan blogs and pundits.

"Cowardice" probably isn't a strong enough word to describe how this all is playing out. It's a f*cking embarrassment to humanity.
 
2009-07-27 11:51:00 AM
Nabb1: Say what, now?

I found that a little hard to believe too.
 
2009-07-27 11:52:49 AM
hillbillypharmacist: Nabb1: you do not have standing to sue for the thousands of dollars of damage he did in wrecking the place in the course of his duties. The duty of arresting your completely pliant roommate who wasn't resisting arrest.

Say what, now?

Maybe some cops decided to search inside couch cushions, walls, and TV in order to find some stuff.


That I get. It's the lack of standing issue where I'm lost.
 
2009-07-27 12:07:26 PM
KaponoFor3: why even allow the question to get through? Obama is usually smarter than that. A political miscalculation?

Had he not commented on it there would've been a shiatstorm of whaargarble about whether or not he cares about the plight of African Americans.
 
2009-07-27 12:07:43 PM
KaponoFor3: www.twittfr.com

How do you think I feel?

I had a police officer arrest my roommate after telling me, at the front door, that he knew him and wanted to ask a couple of questions about his jeep.

No, he actually wanted to arrest him for a warrant from Davidson county. He brutalized my friend pretty bad, and wrecked the SHIAT out of my hallway. My friend had just woken up, as it was around 7:00 AM and he worked second shift. He didn't resist in any way, I can attest. But the cop threw him against the drywall so hard, three times, that it left three massive chunks of wall destroyed. Destroyed so badly I had to rehang four pieces of drywall. I also had three nice picture frames destroyed.

I asked what the warrant was for, and the officer couldn't tell me. He said he didn't know, but he had a warrant number. The warrant number I received did not later correspond to any warrant issued by that county. The only offense that my roommate committed in that county was "littering," a fine which he had paid and was not in dispute by the county.

A judge found I had no standing to sue for damages, as the damage was in the course of the officer's duties. Ostensibly, he was keeping me safe from a criminal, so I couldn't hold the county or the department liable. You know, the criminal living in my other room. Apparently I could try suing him. It was fortunate then that he used his skills as a contractor to help fix things up. No lawsuit necessary.

My lawyer did say I could have refused the officer entry. He could have come back with the SWAT team and tore the door down, but that wasn't likely.

So the only upshot of this experience is that I'm much less compliant with police. I still know how bad they can rape me every other morning at the roadblock down the street, so I'm not going to go all Gates and yell at them. But they lost any bit of respect I had for them.

Hopefully that clarifies somewhat. I am not a lawyer, so maybe mine was an idiot and the judge an asshole, but I was told, by the judge, I had no standing to sue as it was in the course of the officer's duty to arrest my roommate and the damage was incidental to it.
 
2009-07-27 12:09:10 PM
sigdiamond2000: Let me ask you a question: Do you think that the people (on both sides) who are using this idiotic incident to inflame racial tensions are acting "courageously"?

From what I can tell, it had nothing to do with race other than Gates possible comments, and the color of the parties. It might have something to do with police being pricks, and it might have something to do with homeowners who are assholes about cops. It might even be about a cop trying not to look bad in front of his fellow cops.

But, it seems to have nothing to do with racial tensions other than what Obama said about it.
 
2009-07-27 12:10:31 PM
7of7: Had he not commented on it there would've been a shiatstorm of whaargarble about whether or not he cares about the plight of African Americans.

You don't understand -- Obama's team was able to pick and choose which questions would be asked. They chose this as one of the questions. That has to be a political miscalculation (albeit a rare one) for his administration.
 
2009-07-27 12:16:48 PM
 
2009-07-27 12:17:13 PM
I_C_Weener: From what I can tell, it had nothing to do with race other than Gates possible comments, and the color of the parties.

I'm not talking about the incident itself. I'm talking about the reaction to the incident by the race warriors who are using this opportunity to justify their hate.
 
2009-07-27 12:22:27 PM
palladiate: Hopefully that clarifies somewhat. I am not a lawyer, so maybe mine was an idiot and the judge an asshole, but I was told, by the judge, I had no standing to sue as it was in the course of the officer's duty to arrest my roommate and the damage was incidental to it.

What was the nature of your lawsuit? What damages were you seeking? I'm just curious. It seems to me that if you were physically injured in the course of arrest of another person, you would at least have standing, even if you eventually lost on the merits. There is qualified immunity for law enforcement officials in their official capacity, but AFAIK it's not an absolute bar to liability.
 
2009-07-27 12:22:41 PM
7of7: "When President Obama called on me, he had no idea what I would be asking. I had not written or blogged about the Gates incident, so no one in the White House had any clue that I was particularly interested in Obama's reaction. (new window)"

Assuming what she said was true, then I stand corrected. My understanding was that the President has a heads up as to all potential questions that could be asked in these types of press conferences.
 
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