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(Yahoo)   Nationally famous black professor Henry Louis Gates arrested for trying to break into own home. Race Card trumps Apology Card   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 384
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11044 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2009 at 9:00 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-07-20 04:58:31 PM
Counter has said he was stopped on campus by two Harvard police officers in 2004 after being mistaken for a robbery suspect. They threatened to arrest him when he could not produce identification.

"We do not believe that this arrest would have happened if professor Gates was white," Counter said. "It really has been very unsettling for African-Americans throughout Harvard and throughout Cambridge that this happened."


Well yeah... If a black guy resembles the suspect I'd hope the police aren't stopping white guys...

- R
 
2009-07-20 06:43:52 PM
www.big-pix.com
 
2009-07-20 08:37:44 PM
By the time police arrived, Gates was already inside. Police say he refused to come outside to speak with an officer, who told him he was investigating a report of a break-in.

'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' Gates said, according to a police report.


No, dipshiat, because the neighbors saw someone breaking into your house and called the police to investigate.

God damn, I hope that guy's house gets broken into for real, and the neighbors do nothing.
 
2009-07-20 08:50:20 PM
Henry Louis Gates Jr. is the nation's pre-eminent black scholar?

This guy begs to differ:
scienceblogs.com
 
2009-07-20 08:58:43 PM
By the time police arrived, Gates was already inside. Police say he refused to come outside to speak with an officer, who told him he was investigating a report of a break-in.

"Why, because I'm a black man in America?" Gates said,


Umm, if he didn't come to the door, how would the cop know he was black? If my neighbors called the cops on me because they saw me breaking into my home, I would not be that upset when the police, responding to a call of a break in & finding a door that has been forced open would try to verify that I'm the owner/tenant of the house.

Assuming that the ID had the Professor's address on it, did the officer go beyond verifying the Professor's ID and that he was the one who forced his way into his own home & not some one else who may be lurking in the house, possibly with a hostage? If not, then the Professor really over reacted.

And the arrest for disorderly conduct in his own home when the Professor hadn't let the officer in is pretty strange (I could see a charge of hindering a police investigation though). Last I heard you can be douche in your own home and yell and scream (assuming its at a level that isn't otherwise disturbing the peace).
 
2009-07-20 09:04:51 PM
i thought gates jr. was the one who got arrested
 
2009-07-20 09:07:02 PM
No Subby, he was arrested for disorderly conduct after getting too uppity.
 
2009-07-20 09:07:51 PM
StrikitRich: No Subby, he was arrested for disorderly conduct after getting too uppity.

Arrested for being too uppity on his own property. Exceptionally absurd.
 
2009-07-20 09:07:53 PM
Ok, so next time a black person breaks into a house the police should not investigate?


And they wounder why some people are prejudiced.
 
2009-07-20 09:09:21 PM
We really need to crack down on these loud and tumultuous negroes.
 
2009-07-20 09:09:28 PM
www.celebrity-gossip.net

Did the cops try to sprinkle crack on him?
 
2009-07-20 09:09:32 PM
Damn! As a white man, I didn't know I could go breaking down doors with impunity.

Or does that only apply in Boston?
 
2009-07-20 09:09:33 PM
Whiner.
 
2009-07-20 09:09:49 PM
Ok, so this story has been batting around all day, and it seems like this is how it went down:

National famous Harvard professor locks himself out.*
Neighbor sees man jimmying open door and calls cops.
Cops show up, Prof. Gates is already inside.
Cops ask for ID, Gates either:
A) acts like a dick and then shows some ID
B) shows some ID and then acts like a dick.

He did both of those things. He showed TWO pieces of ID- Massachusetts drivers license and Harvard faculty ID AND he threw the "do you know who I am" shiat at the cops.

The cops arrested him for ""exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,".

Someone aptly explained it as "the cop and the professor throwing their dicks around". That seems to be true.

But the point is, the man was arrested inside his own home, and doesn't seem to have broken any law.


*As someone who works in higher ed, I am happy to report that the smartest people are the ones most likely to do shiat like lock themselves out of their own homes.
 
2009-07-20 09:10:53 PM
After reading TFA, I think his problem might not arise from being a black man in American, but rather a privileged man in America.
 
2009-07-20 09:11:12 PM
The cops should've shot him dead right there for being such a douchey tool.
 
2009-07-20 09:11:14 PM
GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

So the driver's license and Harvard ID don't count as "identifying himself"?
 
2009-07-20 09:12:26 PM
Yeah, while this man clearly has a complex (Which is probably somewhat justified, in light of the fact that he was a black, male teenager in the 60s in West Virginia. You know he had to put up with some high-grade bullshiat), how the fark do you justify arresting someone for disorderly conduct in their own home?
 
2009-07-20 09:12:33 PM
Philip J. Fry [TotalFark] 2009-07-20 09:07:51 PM
StrikitRich: No Subby, he was arrested for disorderly conduct after getting too uppity.

Arrested for being too uppity on his own property. Exceptionally absurd.


I hate cops more than you can imagine, but WTF are they supposed to do when they drive past a home, see a man (any color) pounding his shoulder against a door?

Ask a question or two? Maybe like "Hi, what's your name?". WHen the reaction is a flaming blue-streak, yes, I would expect that to cause suspicion.


// You race baiters can shove that race card where the sun don't shine.
 
2009-07-20 09:12:33 PM

"By the time police arrived, Gates was already inside. Police say he refused to come outside to speak with an officer, who told him he was investigating a report of a break-in.

"Why, because I'm a black man in America?" Gates said,"


This reminds me of Eddie Murphy bit where he was at an airport and a white man asked if that was his suitcase sitting there and Eddie says "Yea that's my farking bag! Why motherfarker, a black man can't have a suitcase?!?" (NSFW)

 
2009-07-20 09:12:38 PM
Yea!!! Al Sharpton is coming to the arraignment!

/I gotta through my shoulder into it a bit to open the kitchen door...damn weather-stripping.
//Never been reported to the cops by the neighbors, though - of course I am a middle-aged white woman....
 
2009-07-20 09:12:51 PM
Sorry, Farkers.
SGT OTTER wins it in 2.
/an' he's been out of town too
//but thanks for playing.
 
2009-07-20 09:14:14 PM
7th Son of a 7th Son: The cops should've shot him dead right there for being such a douchey tool.

Let's shoot you for having a douchebag opinion on the internet as well then.
 
2009-07-20 09:15:13 PM
what_now:

The cops arrested him for ""exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,".
.


The city of Boistin has a filter on perleece recoids that hates "upperty"
/Mal Blano Voce
 
2009-07-20 09:15:29 PM
FTA "This arrest is indicative of at best police abuse of power or at worst the highest example of racial profiling I have seen," Sharpton said. "I have heard of driving while black and even shopping while black but now even going to your own home while black is a new low in police community affairs."

What about being a media attention whore while black, Mr. Sharpton? Eh?
 
2009-07-20 09:15:55 PM
uh, throw...and to think, i won my third grade spelling bee
 
2009-07-20 09:17:56 PM
"He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

After he showed the cops his ID they should have said, Thyank you sir, have a nice day."

End of story.
 
2009-07-20 09:18:21 PM
Between Gates and Sharpton, the two of them trotted out every tired old line this side of "Come and see the violence inherent in the system / help help I'm being repressed!"
 
2009-07-20 09:18:42 PM
FTFA: Gates gave the officer his driver's license and Harvard identification after being asked to prove he was a Harvard professor and lived at the home, but became upset when the officer continued to question him ...

He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification ...

Gates had returned from a trip to China on Thursday with a driver, when he found his front door jammed. He went through the back door into the home - which he leases from Harvard - shut off an alarm and worked with the driver to get the door open. The driver left, and Gates was on the phone with the property's management company when police first arrived.


Police can be assholes: check.
 
2009-07-20 09:19:14 PM
vudukungfu: The city of Boistin has a filter on perleece recoids that hates "upperty"
/Mal Blano Voce


....what the hell was that? Srsly, I'd rather listen to Robin Williams pretending to have a Boston accent again that..

You're in fng Switzerland....
 
2009-07-20 09:20:40 PM
Somehow I think the charge will be quietly dropped.

Here's a link to the police report. Pops right into a pdf.

Link (new window)
 
2009-07-20 09:20:45 PM
If I break into my own home and the police show up and demand I prove I have a right to be there, I will damn well show my ID and thank them for doing a good job protecting my property. I certainly won't act like a complete douche nozzle.

However, I have a difficult time seeing how someone can be arrested for disorderly conduct in their own home.
 
2009-07-20 09:20:52 PM
This is much, much more of a case of "Do you know who I AM??" than any racial charged bit their imaginations can dream up. The fact that this is not immediately evident to everyone involved (or atleast can not be publicly said as such) shows a serious problem in American racial dialogue.

STFU and answer the cop's questions. Then go and have a laugh with the neighbor who called the cops on the black man in his own house. Christ, do you have teach people how to behave like a normal human being?

Do blacks not think whites people get shiat from the cops and generally tend to avoid every sliver of a second in an interaction with them as well?
 
2009-07-20 09:20:56 PM
1.61803399:

After seeing the giant text in your post, I can almost understand why the officer would arrest Gates for being loud and obnoxious.
 
2009-07-20 09:21:06 PM
GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

If this had been a white man arrested by a black cop in his own home after showing two forms of ID, I'll bet you'd be foaming on about private property rights, eh?
 
2009-07-20 09:22:05 PM
Uh he was in his own home and the cop had no warrant he didn't have to do a damn thing. Seriously after he showed the cop the id he should have just gone inside and closed the door in the pigs face. the cop arrested him for "disorderly conduct" on his own property translation being "Uppity".
 
2009-07-20 09:22:17 PM
the nation's pre-eminent black scholar

the nation's pre-eminent jewish scholar
the nation's pre-eminent female scholar
the nation's pre-eminent white scholar
the nation's pre-eminent asian scholar
the nation's pre-eminent gay scholar


Is it kinda racist for me to think its strange that we know for a fact that he is the most scholarly black person in America?
 
2009-07-20 09:23:51 PM
Howie Spankowitz: GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

If this had been a white man arrested by a black cop in his own home after showing two forms of ID, I'll bet you'd be foaming on about private property rights, eh?


He was arrested for disorderly conduct which has nothing to do with his delayed production of identification. And if it was a white professor it probably wouldn't even be in the news outside of a blotter and his academic career would likely be jeopardized with virtually no-one coming to his aid.
 
2009-07-20 09:24:35 PM
ilikeracecars: the nation's pre-eminent black scholar

the nation's pre-eminent jewish scholar
the nation's pre-eminent female scholar
the nation's pre-eminent white scholar
the nation's pre-eminent asian scholar
the nation's pre-eminent gay scholar


Is it kinda racist for me to think its strange that we know for a fact that he is the most scholarly black person in America?


Being able to read is an unfair advantage.
 
2009-07-20 09:24:36 PM
what_now:

You're in fng Switzerland....


Or sveeden/
Dee effin copppers noodged de parson oob coooler to pretarnd he deednt leeve der. But hee leeved der so he made a foos.
and de coops got all fir him de boodge and treadended to deet him da filberforge.
So he , der parson oob cooler, got gerfinderwhooshed and stamichder floored teh coops.
End of story.
 
2009-07-20 09:24:55 PM
Emposter: 1.61803399:

After seeing the giant text in your post, I can almost understand why the officer would arrest Gates for being loud and obnoxious.


If the thread wasn't so full of attention whores griping about Sharpton (although, really, HLGJr is like the Chuck Norris of African American history, he doesn't need Sharpton ... really WTF) I wouldn't have to shout.
 
2009-07-20 09:26:17 PM
ilikeracecars: the nation's pre-eminent black scholar

the nation's pre-eminent jewish scholar
the nation's pre-eminent female scholar
the nation's pre-eminent white scholar
the nation's pre-eminent asian scholar
the nation's pre-eminent gay scholar


Is it kinda racist for me to think its strange that we know for a fact that he is the most scholarly black person in America?


Sadly the pre-eminent white scholar died recently at the age of 50. No replacement has yet been named.
 
2009-07-20 09:27:18 PM
HE SHOWED THE POLICE TWO (2) FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION AND THEY PROCEEDED TO QUESTION HIM IN HIS OWN HOME BEFORE ARRESTING HIM.

Are all the internet tough guy, law and order, Fark Independents up to speed now? I'd do flannel puppets if I could get you guys to stop eating the paint for a minute.
 
2009-07-20 09:27:25 PM
Fano:

Being able to read is an unfair advantage.


Didn't help Bush.
 
2009-07-20 09:28:24 PM
"He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he 'exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior.' He was released later that day on his own recognizance. An arraignment was scheduled for Aug. 26. Police refused to comment on the arrest."

He wasn't arrested for breaking into his own house. He was arrested for being an ass. He wouldn't come out at first, wouldn't show identification, then made it a black thing. If I see two people trying to bust a door down, I'm going to call the cops too. This guy had a chip on his shoulder as big as the damn door he broke.
 
2009-07-20 09:28:29 PM
Pre-eminent white scholar

www.schemamag.ca
 
2009-07-20 09:28:43 PM
Howie Spankowitz: I'd do flannel puppets if I could get you guys to stop eating the paint for a minute.

Buy you a drink, brother?
 
2009-07-20 09:29:02 PM
1.61803399: Emposter: 1.61803399:

After seeing the giant text in your post, I can almost understand why the officer would arrest Gates for being loud and obnoxious.

If the thread wasn't so full of attention whores griping about Sharpton (although, really, HLGJr is like the Chuck Norris of African American history, he doesn't need Sharpton ... really WTF) I wouldn't have to shout.


Now now, insults are no way to win an intarweb fight.
 
2009-07-20 09:29:24 PM
DuttySoldier: Pre-eminent white scholar

don't kid with a dot head.
/feather head
 
2009-07-20 09:29:31 PM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Perhaps the Cambridge police should be forced to watch more PBS.
 
2009-07-20 09:29:48 PM
1.61803399: Sadly the pre-eminent white scholar died recently at the age of 50. No replacement has yet been named.

Billy Mays or Michael Jackson?
 
2009-07-20 09:31:20 PM
HE WAS ARRESTED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT NOT BREAKING INTO HIS OWN HOME!

Are the ITG, counter-culture, Fark race baiters up to speed now?
 
2009-07-20 09:31:30 PM
I actually had to help this big black dude break into his house when he locked himself out like a month ago. He flipped his lid when I popped 2 doors with a credit card in under a minute.

/Plus I got 10 bucks
//and a smokedown
 
2009-07-20 09:31:39 PM
chu2dogg: Howie Spankowitz: GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

If this had been a white man arrested by a black cop in his own home after showing two forms of ID, I'll bet you'd be foaming on about private property rights, eh?

He was arrested for disorderly conduct which has nothing to do with his delayed production of identification. And if it was a white professor it probably wouldn't even be in the news outside of a blotter and his academic career would likely be jeopardized with virtually no-one coming to his aid.


Whatever will us po' oppressed white males do?! If only we got a fair shake here in Amerikkka!
 
2009-07-20 09:32:45 PM
Howie Spankowitz: HE SHOWED THE POLICE TWO (2) FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION AND THEY PROCEEDED TO QUESTION HIM IN HIS OWN HOME BEFORE ARRESTING HIM.

Are all the internet tough guy, law and order, Fark Independents up to speed now? I'd do flannel puppets if I could get you guys to stop eating the paint for a minute.


Did you read the police report?
 
2009-07-20 09:33:54 PM
Howie Spankowitz: chu2dogg: Howie Spankowitz: GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

If this had been a white man arrested by a black cop in his own home after showing two forms of ID, I'll bet you'd be foaming on about private property rights, eh?

He was arrested for disorderly conduct which has nothing to do with his delayed production of identification. And if it was a white professor it probably wouldn't even be in the news outside of a blotter and his academic career would likely be jeopardized with virtually no-one coming to his aid.

Whatever will us po' oppressed white males do?! If only we got a fair shake here in Amerikkka!


Considering you actually use the word "Amerikkka" and likely think it makes you edgy and hip, you probably won't be doing much anything beyond flipping burgers.
 
2009-07-20 09:34:14 PM
cache.gawker.com

Howie Spankowitz: HE SHOWED THE POLICE TWO (2) FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION AND THEY PROCEEDED TO QUESTION HIM IN HIS OWN HOME BEFORE ARRESTING HIM.

Are all the internet tough guy, law and order, Fark Independents up to speed now? I'd do flannel puppets if I could get you guys to stop eating the paint for a minute.


... Followed Two Posts Later By ...

mediablitz:
"He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he 'exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior.' He was released later that day on his own recognizance. An arraignment was scheduled for Aug. 26. Police refused to comment on the arrest."

He wasn't arrested for breaking into his own house. He was arrested for being an ass. He wouldn't come out at first, wouldn't show identification, then made it a black thing. If I see two people trying to bust a door down, I'm going to call the cops too. This guy had a chip on his shoulder as big as the damn door he broke.
 
2009-07-20 09:34:34 PM
chu2dogg: HE WAS ARRESTED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT NOT BREAKING INTO HIS OWN HOME!

Are the ITG, counter-culture, Fark race baiters up to speed now?


He should have never been questioned after producing valid ID. Two forms, nonetheless. I would have been pissed, too. It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?
 
2009-07-20 09:35:33 PM
"Yes, 911? I would like to report an intruder in my house. One second, let me get his badge number..."
 
2009-07-20 09:35:43 PM
 
2009-07-20 09:36:07 PM
chu2dogg: HE WAS ARRESTED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT NOT BREAKING INTO HIS OWN HOME!

Are the ITG, counter-culture, Fark race baiters up to speed now?


Much Better
 
2009-07-20 09:36:55 PM
Howie Spankowitz: It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?

It bothers me that the cops at the scene are still employed,
 
2009-07-20 09:37:59 PM
1 - Having dealt with the Cambridge/Boston/Somerville police personally - if they are called to the house, and you answer the door, they want you to step outside to talk with them. Any race. Any gender. Any age. They ask you to step outside. You may be telling them you're ok because you're ok, or you may be telling them you're ok because someone just outside their visual range is holding a gun on you.

2 - from the police report: "Gates responded that the "door was unsecureable due to a previous break-in attempt". Gee, maybe that's why the neighbor called it in? (priceless)

Definitely a case of "do you know who I am?"
 
2009-07-20 09:38:04 PM
johnsoninca: Henry Louis Gates Jr. is the nation's pre-eminent black scholar?

This guy begs to differ:


Did you photoshop the black spot on Jupiter???
 
2009-07-20 09:38:58 PM
mud_shark: Howie Spankowitz: HE SHOWED THE POLICE TWO (2) FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION AND THEY PROCEEDED TO QUESTION HIM IN HIS OWN HOME BEFORE ARRESTING HIM.

Are all the internet tough guy, law and order, Fark Independents up to speed now? I'd do flannel puppets if I could get you guys to stop eating the paint for a minute.

Did you read the police report?


Police reports lie, frequently. These are the same guys who were cheating off of your history test in high school. Who would really expect them to be honest now?
 
2009-07-20 09:39:17 PM
1.61803399: Perhaps the Cambridge police should be forced to watch more PBS.

The Cambridge police are pissed off all the time because they're a weak 2nd in police brutality compared to the Boston PD.

They give people citations for "tumultous behavior" instead of a straight beatdown like the fuzz across the river.
 
2009-07-20 09:40:04 PM
vudukungfu: Howie Spankowitz: It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?

It bothers me that the cops at the scene are still employed,


It bothers me that people think having ID will make the police magically disappear. Ill have to remember this. If I ever decide to break into some stranger's house, Ill make sure I have 2 forms of ID with me to ward off the Po-Po.
 
2009-07-20 09:40:11 PM
Where did I say he wasn't arrested for disorderly conduct? I know he was...after producing two forms of ID and being pestered by the police in his own home.

I've been around really good cops. Hell, the Chief of Police here where I live is a personal friend and we have an incredible police force. I've even been on ride alongs with them and watched them calmly diffuse much dicier situations without making an arrest.
 
2009-07-20 09:40:14 PM

I find it funny that if his neighbors did not know a well know Black Harvard professor lived in their neighborhood, they sure as hell know it now.


"No, Mary, don't call the cops. It's just another Harvard professor breaking into his own house." BTW, I know Boston cops can be dickheads, but this happened in Cambridge and these were Cambridge cops. I like to hang out in Cambridge more because I think it's much more diverse and nicer than Boston. Although Harvard Square isn't what it used to be years ago. R.I.P. The Tasty.

 
2009-07-20 09:40:43 PM
Howie Spankowitz: chu2dogg: HE WAS ARRESTED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT NOT BREAKING INTO HIS OWN HOME!

Are the ITG, counter-culture, Fark race baiters up to speed now?

He should have never been questioned after producing valid ID. Two forms, nonetheless. I would have been pissed, too. It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?


It bothers me that somebody thinks that they have the authority to shiat all over the police because A)they are Harvards preeminent professor, and B) they are black.

And when arrested for causing a scene they immediately play the race car to absolve themselves from any responsibility.

White people get shiat from cops too, yes, cops are pigs, no, you don't have any legitimate rights over anybody else to cause a disturbance. Not because you are a professor, not because your in your own home, and certainly not because you are black.
 
2009-07-20 09:42:33 PM
skinink: I find it funny that if his neighbors did not know a well know Black Harvard professor lived in their neighborhood, they sure as hell know it now.

"No, Mary, don't call the cops. It's just another Harvard professor breaking into his own house." BTW, I know Boston cops can be dickheads, but this happened in Cambridge and these were Cambridge cops. I like to hang out in Cambridge more because I think it's much more diverse and nicer than Boston. Although Harvard Square isn't what it used to be years ago. R.I.P. The Tasty.


OHNOES.

When did they close it?????
 
2009-07-20 09:43:16 PM
Howie Spankowitz: chu2dogg: HE WAS ARRESTED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT NOT BREAKING INTO HIS OWN HOME!

Are the ITG, counter-culture, Fark race baiters up to speed now?

He should have never been questioned after producing valid ID. Two forms, nonetheless. I would have been pissed, too. It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?


Someone else already posted it, but here's the link to the police report:

(new window)

It sounds like the police officer was satisfied with the IDs and was trying to leave. It also sounds like it was the professor who was doing the questioning (and yelling) at that point.

Maybe the cop is a racist pig, but he made the arrest in front of other cops as well as at least 7 civilian witnesses. He was creating a disturbance and from the report was being a complete and utter asshat.
 
2009-07-20 09:43:34 PM
If I had just arrived home from a trip to China, I probably would have been a little short with the police as well. Although, being white, I'm not certain I would have been arrested in my own home.

/why yes, I am a conservative Christian
 
2009-07-20 09:43:41 PM
"Don't you think I realize what's going on here, miss? Who do you think I am, huh? Don't you think I know that if I was some hotshot from out of town that pulled inside here and you guys made a reservation mistake, I'd be the first one to get a room and I'd be upstairs relaxing right now.

But I'm not some hotshot from out of town, I'm a small reporter from "Rolling Stone" magazine that's in town to do an exclusive interview with Michael Jackson that's gonna be picked up by every major magazine in the country.

I was gonna call the article 'Michael Jackson: Sitting On Top of the World,' but now I think I'm gonna call it 'Michael Jackson Can Sit On Top of the World Just As Long as He Doesn't Sit in the Beverly Palm Hotel 'Cause There Ain't No Ni**ers Allowed!'"
 
2009-07-20 09:46:00 PM
mud_shark: (new window)

Okay, I fail.


http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/gates_incident_report_redacted.p d f

Do your own cutting and pasting or search for "link" in this thread - someone else got it right.
 
2009-07-20 09:46:12 PM
Howie Spankowitz: Where did I say he wasn't arrested for disorderly conduct? I know he was...after producing two forms of ID and being pestered by the police in his own home.



It amazes me you're not aware you can be arrested for disorderly conduct on your own property, and that showing (after resisting) identification has nothing to do with it at all.
 
2009-07-20 09:46:18 PM
ringo2: 1 - Having dealt with the Cambridge/Boston/Somerville police personally - if they are called to the house, and you answer the door, they want you to step outside to talk with them. Any race. Any gender. Any age. They ask you to step outside. You may be telling them you're ok because you're ok, or you may be telling them you're ok because someone just outside their visual range is holding a gun on you.


2 - from the police report: "Gates responded that the "door was unsecureable due to a previous break-in attempt". Gee, maybe that's why the neighbor called it in? (priceless)

Definitely a case of "do you know who I am?"



They ask you to step outside because they can't enter without a warrant unless there are some exigent circumstances. They aren't doing anything special, they just don't have a right to go in.
 
2009-07-20 09:48:50 PM
chu2dogg: It bothers me that somebody thinks that they have the authority to shiat all over the police

Yes...those poor policemen, with their guns and tasers and nightsticks and pepper spray. My god...how fearful they must have been from the tongue-lashing they were receiving from the scary academic. Clearly, their only option was to arrest him in his own home after he proved he lived there.

Had they simply turned, got in their patrol car and left, I'm sure the professor, after his long trip, was going to rampage through the neighborhood screaming and kicking dogs and babies.

Seriously, man...this is shiatty police work, plain and simple.
 
2009-07-20 09:49:19 PM
who cares what happened? Sharpton is on the case!

/farking hate that guy
 
2009-07-20 09:50:29 PM
chu2dogg: Howie Spankowitz: Where did I say he wasn't arrested for disorderly conduct? I know he was...after producing two forms of ID and being pestered by the police in his own home.



It amazes me you're not aware you can be arrested for disorderly conduct on your own property, and that showing (after resisting) identification has nothing to do with it at all.


You are Captain Assumption. I'm aware. Read my response to your other post.
 
2009-07-20 09:51:13 PM
Howie Spankowitz: He should have never been questioned after producing valid ID. Two forms, nonetheless. I would have been pissed, too. It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?

Read the police report. The cop was leaving and the idiot followed him out the door screaming at him.
 
2009-07-20 09:51:50 PM
SwingingJohnson: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

After he showed the cops his ID they should have said, Thyank you sir, have a nice day."

End of story.


QFT
 
2009-07-20 09:53:37 PM
Why the hell did they keep questioning him in his own house after he proved who he was?

It's a Harvard property, he's a Harvard professor, and he proved he lived there. After that the police should have said "Thank you sir, sorry about the inconvenience" and gotten off his lawn like they would have for any other cranky old guy.

I can only imagine the pain in the ass my dad would be if the cops were called on his place, after he'd gotten off an 18-hour international flight and then had to break in to put his stuff down, and he was sick on top of it. Of course, nobody would have called the cops on my dad, because a distinguished-looking older white guy is not usually regarded with suspicion, even though apparently a distinguished-looking older black man is.

Nothing justifies arresting a man in his own home because he's pissed that the cops are questioning him for no reason. It's clear this is a situation where the cops went on a power trip because a black guy was acting "uppity", ie defending his own space and rights, as he was perfectly entitled to, considering this was a non-incident. What exactly about this situation is improved by arresting him and bringing him down to the station? Nothing. I hope he gets a full apology.
 
2009-07-20 09:53:59 PM
CruiserTwelve: Howie Spankowitz: He should have never been questioned after producing valid ID. Two forms, nonetheless. I would have been pissed, too. It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?

Read the police report. The cop was leaving and the idiot followed him out the door screaming at him.


I don't care. I've seen ten times worse on ride alongs with the police. Skilled police would have simply told him he's welcome to file a complaint, warned him to keep it down, got in the car and left. This would have all gone away. But they felt they reeeeeeaaaaalllly needed to arrest this obvious danger to society.

Bad police work.
 
2009-07-20 09:54:19 PM
Let's get Barbara Boxer to sort this out!!!!
 
2009-07-20 09:54:32 PM
DuttySoldier

They ask you to step outside because they can't enter without a warrant unless there are some exigent circumstances. They aren't doing anything special, they just don't have a right to go in.


Um, no. They will ask you to step outside even if you are standing in your doorway, in full view, two feet from them. Particularly if the door is only partway open.
 
2009-07-20 09:55:38 PM
noneyourbase: SwingingJohnson: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

After he showed the cops his ID they should have said, Thyank you sir, have a nice day."

End of story.


Too bad that wasn't the end of the story. The guy got angry and started screaming at the cops as they were leaving. The dude just couldn't leave it alone and got arrested. Too many apologists in here...
 
2009-07-20 09:56:00 PM
Oh...and whether or not it's racist, I don't know. I don't personally know the cops. I hope not and I'm even willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But from the police report, it definitely smacks of shiatty police work.
 
2009-07-20 09:56:57 PM
chu2dogg: STFU and answer the cop's questions. Then go and have a laugh with the neighbor who called the cops on the black man in his own house. Christ, do you have teach people how to behave like a normal human being?

Do blacks not think whites people get shiat from the cops and generally tend to avoid every sliver of a second in an interaction with them as well?


We don't. Not like they do. A man with sight can close his eyes.

Doesn't mean he knows what it's like to be blind.
 
2009-07-20 09:56:59 PM
Howie Spankowitz: chu2dogg: Howie Spankowitz: Where did I say he wasn't arrested for disorderly conduct? I know he was...after producing two forms of ID and being pestered by the police in his own home.



It amazes me you're not aware you can be arrested for disorderly conduct on your own property, and that showing (after resisting) identification has nothing to do with it at all.

You are Captain Assumption. I'm aware. Read my response to your other post.


I see. So it was conjecture. Very well then.
 
2009-07-20 09:57:12 PM
DuttySoldier: ringo2: 1 - Having dealt with the Cambridge/Boston/Somerville police personally - if they are called to the house, and you answer the door, they want you to step outside to talk with them. Any race. Any gender. Any age. They ask you to step outside. You may be telling them you're ok because you're ok, or you may be telling them you're ok because someone just outside their visual range is holding a gun on you.


2 - from the police report: "Gates responded that the "door was unsecureable due to a previous break-in attempt". Gee, maybe that's why the neighbor called it in? (priceless)

Definitely a case of "do you know who I am?"


They ask you to step outside because they can't enter without a warrant unless there are some exigent circumstances. They aren't doing anything special, they just don't have a right to go in.


Wait, the police are vampires?
 
2009-07-20 09:57:42 PM
Emposter: vudukungfu: Howie Spankowitz: It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?

It bothers me that the cops at the scene are still employed,

It bothers me that people think having ID will make the police magically disappear. Ill have to remember this. If I ever decide to break into some stranger's house, Ill make sure I have 2 forms of ID with me to ward off the Po-Po.


I was actually just thinking this. Pick a nice house down in Ann Arbor, fake up a MI driver's license with that address on it and maybe an ID that showed I work for the U. Case the place, break in during the day and go to town. If the cops show up pull out my ID and ask them to help me load the TV into my truck.

I would typically assume the cops would question the guy, see if he was nervous at all or anything that might cause them to question, possibly after radioing the name on the license to dispatch and having them check up on it (although I could get the name of the male resident easily enough with a quick trip to the mailbox). One would assume two pieces of plastic don't trump broken in door.

My personal bet is that the guy was stressed out from his flight to China and having to break in the door, and he unloaded on the cops. He might not be a total douchebag, just a douchebag that doesn't know how to properly unload his stress.
 
2009-07-20 09:57:48 PM
johnsoninca: Henry Louis Gates Jr. is the nation's pre-eminent black scholar?

This guy begs to differ:


No he doesn't. He may be nation's pre-eminent astrophysicist but Henry Louis Gates Jr. is the nation's pre-eminent black scholar who happens to be black.
 
2009-07-20 09:58:09 PM
Furtah - I actually had to help this big black dude break into his house when he locked himself out like a month ago. He flipped his lid when I popped 2 doors with a credit card in under a minute.

/Plus I got 10 bucks
//and a smokedown



Wow, you impressed an honest-to-god homeboy with your masterful B & E skills..? That's really saying something 'cause those guys are like the masters of that shiat. And he shared his chronic with you??? Damn dude, you're like halfway to honorary negro. You play your cards right, he might even let you get on the down-low with him!
 
2009-07-20 09:58:09 PM
TheBigBadCrystallineEntity: noneyourbase: SwingingJohnson: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

After he showed the cops his ID they should have said, Thyank you sir, have a nice day."

End of story.


Too bad that wasn't the end of the story. The guy got angry and started screaming at the cops as they were leaving. The dude just couldn't leave it alone and got arrested. Too many apologists in here...


When keepin' it real goes wrong.
 
2009-07-20 09:58:21 PM
ringo2: DuttySoldier

They ask you to step outside because they can't enter without a warrant unless there are some exigent circumstances. They aren't doing anything special, they just don't have a right to go in.

Um, no. They will ask you to step outside even if you are standing in your doorway, in full view, two feet from them. Particularly if the door is only partway open.


They have to make the procedure uniform because jokers will be tempted to violate your rights...4th amendment blah blah blah
 
2009-07-20 09:58:40 PM
Who cares, same thing happened to my Mom. She laughed and showed cop her ID.

HLG-ain't that great o'scolar anyway.

/HA, HA You're Black
 
2009-07-20 09:58:46 PM
chu2dogg: Howie Spankowitz: chu2dogg: Howie Spankowitz: Where did I say he wasn't arrested for disorderly conduct? I know he was...after producing two forms of ID and being pestered by the police in his own home.



It amazes me you're not aware you can be arrested for disorderly conduct on your own property, and that showing (after resisting) identification has nothing to do with it at all.

You are Captain Assumption. I'm aware. Read my response to your other post.

I see. So it was conjecture. Very well then.


You're not very good at this are you? I mean...the whole having an intelligent conversation thing.
 
2009-07-20 09:58:51 PM
Hey, Negros: If you want to know why blacks are treated like this even in these days then just pay attention to this guy. Seriously. And he panders divisiveness on PBS. What a dick.

/not like whites are treated badly in other countries
//or gingers
 
2009-07-20 09:59:44 PM
He is a race baiting asshole. I was questioned by police for climbing into my own house via a bedroom window when I lost the keys. Neighbors see someone going through a window, they call police, police ask me why I was breaking into the house. I dont see the problem with this.

He forces through the front door of his own house. Neighbors do the neighborly thing and call the police. Police do the responsible thing and ask him why he broke into the house. Instead of saying "stuck door, thanks for asking" he pulls out the race card and throws a hissy fit.
 
2009-07-20 10:01:20 PM
Question of the Day:

How is it that someone becomes a famous college professor if he is stupid enough to lock himself out of his own damn house? I have two words for you professor - Spare. Key.

The lawsuit should be against him for blatant disregard of common sense.
 
2009-07-20 10:01:53 PM
DuttySoldier

They have to make the procedure uniform because jokers will be tempted to violate your rights...4th amendment blah blah blah


Which doesn't explain why, if 911 does a call back, and you say you're OK, they have other ways of determining if you really are. (Yes, and I'm not going to discuss it).

It's not a 4th amendment thing.
 
2009-07-20 10:02:01 PM
mcmnky - chu2dogg: STFU and answer the cop's questions. Then go and have a laugh with the neighbor who called the cops on the black man in his own house. Christ, do you have teach people how to behave like a normal human being?

Do blacks not think whites people get shiat from the cops and generally tend to avoid every sliver of a second in an interaction with them as well?


We don't. Not like they do. A man with sight can close his eyes.

Doesn't mean he knows what it's like to be blind.



Which means you don't know either, so why are you speaking so authoritatively?
 
2009-07-20 10:03:13 PM
Howie Spankowitz: CruiserTwelve: Howie Spankowitz: He should have never been questioned after producing valid ID. Two forms, nonetheless. I would have been pissed, too. It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?

Read the police report. The cop was leaving and the idiot followed him out the door screaming at him.

I don't care. I've seen ten times worse on ride alongs with the police. Skilled police would have simply told him he's welcome to file a complaint, warned him to keep it down, got in the car and left. This would have all gone away. But they felt they reeeeeeaaaaalllly needed to arrest this obvious danger to society.

Bad police work.


I have to agree. But what a jackass Gates seems to be. That police report is not pretty reading.
 
2009-07-20 10:05:26 PM
Howie Spankowitz: HE SHOWED THE POLICE TWO (2) FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION AND THEY PROCEEDED TO QUESTION HIM IN HIS OWN HOME BEFORE ARRESTING HIM.

Are all the internet tough guy, law and order, Fark Independents up to speed now? I'd do flannel puppets if I could get you guys to stop eating the paint for a minute.


Did you read the police report provided above, or are you simply taking Gates's lawyer's words to the press as unvarnished truth?
 
2009-07-20 10:05:48 PM
"He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

So... why did he need to be questioned AFTER he showed ID?

Police. Stupidity. Plain & Simple.
 
2009-07-20 10:06:11 PM
keypusher: Howie Spankowitz: CruiserTwelve: Howie Spankowitz: He should have never been questioned after producing valid ID. Two forms, nonetheless. I would have been pissed, too. It doesn't bother you that he was harassed by the police in his own home after producing ID?

Read the police report. The cop was leaving and the idiot followed him out the door screaming at him.

I don't care. I've seen ten times worse on ride alongs with the police. Skilled police would have simply told him he's welcome to file a complaint, warned him to keep it down, got in the car and left. This would have all gone away. But they felt they reeeeeeaaaaalllly needed to arrest this obvious danger to society.

Bad police work.

I have to agree. But what a jackass Gates seems to be. That police report is not pretty reading.


If it's true, yeah...he was being a jackass. I don't like it when anyone pulls the "Do you know who I am?" stuff. I just hope the police don't sidle up to me on the one or two rare occasions in my life where I have been a complete jackass. We all have our moments.
 
2009-07-20 10:06:21 PM
1.61803399: ilikeracecars: the nation's pre-eminent black scholar

the nation's pre-eminent jewish scholar
the nation's pre-eminent female scholar
the nation's pre-eminent white scholar
the nation's pre-eminent asian scholar
the nation's pre-eminent gay scholar


Is it kinda racist for me to think its strange that we know for a fact that he is the most scholarly black person in America?

Sadly the pre-eminent white scholar died recently at the age of 50. No replacement has yet been named.


I was pre-eminent with my wife once, but I told her I was just really tired.
 
2009-07-20 10:06:55 PM
hyperflame: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

So... why did he need to be questioned AFTER he showed ID?

Police. Stupidity. Plain & Simple.


Read. the. report.
 
2009-07-20 10:07:45 PM
dholway: Howie Spankowitz: HE SHOWED THE POLICE TWO (2) FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION AND THEY PROCEEDED TO QUESTION HIM IN HIS OWN HOME BEFORE ARRESTING HIM.

Are all the internet tough guy, law and order, Fark Independents up to speed now? I'd do flannel puppets if I could get you guys to stop eating the paint for a minute.

Did you read the police report provided above, or are you simply taking Gates's lawyer's words to the press as unvarnished truth?


Read both and don't take either as unvarnished truth. I would advise you to do the same.
 
2009-07-20 10:09:51 PM
The Rev. Al Sharpton is vowing to attend Gates' arraignment.

Oh, OK, now we can rest easy. Everything is going to be alright now.

i236.photobucket.com
 
2009-07-20 10:10:10 PM
White people never get arrested for breaking into their own homes.
 
2009-07-20 10:11:10 PM
In the many interesting conversations I've had with my cop friends, including the Chief of Police where I live (and it is the safest big city in America for 5 years running), they've often talked about the techniques they use to quell tense situations and the good cops speak of it as the pinnacle of good police work.

The ability to diffuse a potentially bad and tense situation is the skill I appreciate most about our local police because I've seen it in action in much worse situations than what is described in the police report. Much, much worse.
 
2009-07-20 10:12:08 PM
I was hoping it'd be this guy:
themcode.files.wordpress.com
 
2009-07-20 10:12:48 PM
Howie Spankowitz: Oh...and whether or not it's racist, I don't know. I don't personally know the cops. I hope not and I'm even willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But from the police report, it definitely smacks of shiatty police work.

I know, what kind of cop would escalate that situation?

You're in a situation dealing with an angry old guy... make them feel like their complaint is valid and has been heard and/or addressed, be polite because they'll expect that and if they don't get it, they'll just get madder.

I expect police officers have people yell at them a lot, if you can't get a yelling guy on a rant to simmer down and move along without arresting him, you're in the wrong line of work.

If a guy is hoarsely yelling, "You're here invading my house because of racial profiling! You're here because I'm a black man!" consider the source. Here's a guy who is old enough to personally remember a time when the FBI assassinated Black Panthers. He's got a legitimate distrust of police, and he's a professor at Harvard, which means it's safe to profile him occupationally as having a highly developed sense of superiority, and is potentially a real pain in the ass. It might be a good time to pull out a "We understand if you think we were over-vigilant, sir. We just wanted to make sure your home and your neighbourhood was protected, and we try to respond to every call about a home invasion in a timely manner. If you'll excuse us, we'll just be on our way. Have a good evening now." If he keeps yelling all the way out to the squad car, get in the car and drive away. Problem solved. Responding with "All right, get your hands behind your back, you're under arrest" does not solve the problem, it creates MORE problems. Jesus.
 
2009-07-20 10:13:05 PM
ringo2: DuttySoldier

They have to make the procedure uniform because jokers will be tempted to violate your rights...4th amendment blah blah blah

Which doesn't explain why, if 911 does a call back, and you say you're OK, they have other ways of determining if you really are. (Yes, and I'm not going to discuss it).

It's not a 4th amendment thing.


Not even a little? (new window)
 
2009-07-20 10:13:16 PM
Conservationist: White people never get arrested for breaking into their own homes.

If a white person was questioned for breaking into his own home, and then proceeded to scream at or insult the cops he would. You have obviously never lived around white trash and meth addicts.

You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect (even if they dont deserve it) do not get arrested in their own homes"
 
2009-07-20 10:13:24 PM
MikeSass: How is it that someone becomes a famous college professor if he is stupid enough to lock himself out of his own damn house?

You...don't work with a lot of college professors, do you? I work with a heart surgeon who has FREAKED out because he couldn't operate the fax machine. I had a professor in college who was known as one of the preeminent scholars of the cold war. The guy has been on The History Channel more times than most farkers have gotten laid.

He would routinely forget to pay his phone bill.
 
2009-07-20 10:14:09 PM
TheBigBadCrystallineEntity: noneyourbase: SwingingJohnson: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

After he showed the cops his ID they should have said, Thyank you sir, have a nice day."

End of story.


Too bad that wasn't the end of the story. The guy got angry and started screaming at the cops as they were leaving. The dude just couldn't leave it alone and got arrested. Too many apologists in here...


For an arrest on Gates' property, the officer needed either a warrant or probable cause. Nothing in either version of events suggests that the officer had either.

Again: the officer should have told Gates' he was free to file a complaint and left the property. He had no reason to do anything else.
 
2009-07-20 10:16:00 PM
I would think we would have all learned these lessons by now.

Allow me to reiterate:

1) Privileged people will occasionally be dicks
2) Cops will often overstep their authority
3) These two circumstances will usually result in asshattery
 
2009-07-20 10:16:07 PM
Lucius T Outlaw Jr. disapproves
www.hws.edu
 
2009-07-20 10:17:00 PM
Even though the guy was being a dickwad, there was absolutely no reason to arrest him in his own house. If he wants to yell and scream... so be it.

It's HIS farking house. He can do what he damn well pleases.
 
2009-07-20 10:17:00 PM
Super-genius:
scienceblogs.com

Super-idiot:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2009-07-20 10:17:07 PM
FTFA:
"Why, because I'm a black man in America?" Gates said

i51.photobucket.com
 
2009-07-20 10:17:12 PM
Suzi Succubus: You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect simple politeness do not get arrested in their own homes"

This works as well.
 
2009-07-20 10:18:26 PM
noneyourbase: For an arrest on Gates' property, the officer needed either a warrant or probable cause. Nothing in either version of events suggests that the officer had either.

Glad to see your GED in Law came in the mail.
 
2009-07-20 10:19:10 PM
DuttySoldier
Not even a little? (new window)


Not sure how this disproves my statement.
 
2009-07-20 10:19:23 PM
give me doughnuts: Suzi Succubus: You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect simple politeness do not get arrested in their own homes"

This works as well.


I stand corrected.
 
2009-07-20 10:19:32 PM
bobbette: Howie Spankowitz: Oh...and whether or not it's racist, I don't know. I don't personally know the cops. I hope not and I'm even willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But from the police report, it definitely smacks of shiatty police work.

I know, what kind of cop would escalate that situation?

You're in a situation dealing with an angry old guy... make them feel like their complaint is valid and has been heard and/or addressed, be polite because they'll expect that and if they don't get it, they'll just get madder.

I expect police officers have people yell at them a lot, if you can't get a yelling guy on a rant to simmer down and move along without arresting him, you're in the wrong line of work.

If a guy is hoarsely yelling, "You're here invading my house because of racial profiling! You're here because I'm a black man!" consider the source. Here's a guy who is old enough to personally remember a time when the FBI assassinated Black Panthers. He's got a legitimate distrust of police, and he's a professor at Harvard, which means it's safe to profile him occupationally as having a highly developed sense of superiority, and is potentially a real pain in the ass. It might be a good time to pull out a "We understand if you think we were over-vigilant, sir. We just wanted to make sure your home and your neighbourhood was protected, and we try to respond to every call about a home invasion in a timely manner. If you'll excuse us, we'll just be on our way. Have a good evening now." If he keeps yelling all the way out to the squad car, get in the car and drive away. Problem solved. Responding with "All right, get your hands behind your back, you're under arrest" does not solve the problem, it creates MORE problems. Jesus.


Bingo. The law and order mouthbreathers in here think policing is about busting heads. Good cops and modern police methods know better. These cops apparently don't.
 
2009-07-20 10:19:44 PM
give me doughnuts: You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect simple politeness do not get arrested in their own homes"

This works as well.



I should not need to fear ARREST if a police officer thinks I am being "disrespectful" or "impolite".

Unless the police officer is my MOTHER, they have no right to criticize my manners.
 
2009-07-20 10:20:07 PM
give me doughnuts: Suzi Succubus: You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect simple politeness do not get arrested in their own homes"

This works as well.


I never got the logic that "Hey, I've committed no crime and I'm being questioned by the police...I better incriminate myself just to show 'em how wrong they are!"
 
2009-07-20 10:21:27 PM
Wow. Black people acting like black people. I always thought national recognition changes that.


//wait-
 
2009-07-20 10:22:40 PM
what_now: give me doughnuts: You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect simple politeness do not get arrested in their own homes"

This works as well.


I should not need to fear ARREST if a police officer thinks I am being "disrespectful" or "impolite".

Unless the police officer is my MOTHER, they have no right to criticize my manners.


These anti-manners laws have gone too far! What's next? Cops bust in and cuff me for using a salad fork to eat my steak?
 
2009-07-20 10:22:44 PM
Barakku: give me doughnuts: Suzi Succubus: You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect simple politeness do not get arrested in their own homes"

This works as well.

I never got the logic that "Hey, I've committed no crime and I'm being questioned by the police...I better incriminate myself just to show 'em how wrong they are!"


There is a difference between incriminating yourself and being polite to someone who has alot of power and a short fuse. A simple sir and mam get you out of many jams.

I do agree with What_Now though. Nobody should fear getting arrested for being impolite. It is bullshiat. It is not a racial issue though.
 
2009-07-20 10:23:04 PM
Howie Spankowitz: In the many interesting conversations I've had with my cop friends, including the Chief of Police where I live (and it is the safest big city in America for 5 years running), they've often talked about the techniques they use to quell tense situations and the good cops speak of it as the pinnacle of good police work.

The ability to diffuse a potentially bad and tense situation is the skill I appreciate most about our local police because I've seen it in action in much worse situations than what is described in the police report. Much, much worse.


The safest large city is New York City, is that what you mean?
 
2009-07-20 10:23:24 PM
noneyourbase:
For an arrest on Gates' property, the officer needed either a warrant or probable cause. Nothing in either version of events suggests that the officer had either.


Um...they arrested him for disorderly conduct. Which they observed with their own eyes.
 
2009-07-20 10:23:43 PM
I have been in a police report. Had the charges dropped. That stuff can be very inaccurate. Got in a fight with a roommate in undergrad the guy was literally twice my size so I fought fairly and hit him in the head with my beer bottle...Cop just basically lied and fed the guy I got in a fight with what to say to make a case stick against me. Nobody was there to tell my side of the story because my friends and I left. Saw the police report later and was amazed.
 
2009-07-20 10:23:46 PM
BunkyBrewman: Even though the guy was being a dickwad, there was absolutely no reason to arrest him in his own house. If he wants to yell and scream... so be it.

It's HIS farking house. He can do what he damn well pleases.


No you can't. There are many things you can not do in your own home.
 
2009-07-20 10:23:47 PM
Gates - the director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research - initially refused to show the officer his identification, but then gave him a Harvard University ID card, according to police.

"Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him," the officer wrote.


If you don't want to be a "victim" of "profiling", don't act so much like a criminal. You'd think it takes some intelligence to become a professor. Or you could just pick the lowest area of study possible, I guess.
 
2009-07-20 10:24:46 PM
noneyourbase: TheBigBadCrystallineEntity: noneyourbase: SwingingJohnson: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

After he showed the cops his ID they should have said, Thank you sir, have a nice day."

End of story.


Too bad that wasn't the end of the story. The guy got angry and started screaming at the cops as they were leaving. The dude just couldn't leave it alone and got arrested. Too many apologists in here...

For an arrest on Gates' property, the officer needed either a warrant or probable cause. Nothing in either version of events suggests that the officer had either.

Again: the officer should have told Gates' he was free to file a complaint and left the property. He had no reason to do anything else.


Well sure, if you want to talk all legal and stuff.

But we had some bruised police ego in the situation.
 
2009-07-20 10:25:39 PM
Benevolent Misanthrope: By the time police arrived, Gates was already inside. Police say he refused to come outside to speak with an officer, who told him he was investigating a report of a break-in.

'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' Gates said, according to a police report.

No, dipshiat, because the neighbors saw someone breaking into your house and called the police to investigate.

God damn, I hope that guy's house gets broken into for real, and the neighbors do nothing.


After showing the cops two forms of ID that proved he lived there What the fark else should the cops have needed?

Hell I was once caught by the DC police red handed kicking in a front door in full gothic regalia, war paint, and several realistic weapons hanging off of me- and more than slightly tipsy (we were Easter egg hunting--it's a very long story). The door belonged to a friend who simply explained to the cops that he lived there and that her complained several to his landlord that the deadbolt often stuck, locking him out of his own place even when he had the key.

The cops simply matched the address on the driver's license to the one on the door, wished us a goodnight, and gave me a useful tip for kicking in doors that didn't involve spraining my ankle
 
2009-07-20 10:25:47 PM
Barakku: give me doughnuts: Suzi Succubus: You should correct that to say "People who shut the heck up and treat the police with respect simple politeness do not get arrested in their own homes"

This works as well.

I never got the logic that "Hey, I've committed no crime and I'm being questioned by the police...I better incriminate myself just to show 'em how wrong they are!"


How is being a d-bag criminal? Don't say, "because you can get arrested for it" either because the whole issue here is that you shouldn't. Real crime requires a victim and actual damages. There's neither in this situation.
 
2009-07-20 10:26:43 PM
Why are so many of you taking the cops' word on his behavior when we all know that cops lie?


/just sayin'
 
2009-07-20 10:26:49 PM
In essence my roommate attacked me because I wouldn't get off the phone. This was pre-cellphone everywhere
 
2009-07-20 10:26:52 PM
GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

You mean Refused to identify himself OTHER than giving the cops two forms of ID right?
 
2009-07-20 10:26:53 PM
He should've shown a picture of himself with the white realtor who sold him the house.


"I want America to see this. Is that cool for you? Check it out. That's me, right there. That's the white guy that sold me the car
in a checkered jacket. Paid for it in cash. Cash money!"

/Probably not obscure.
 
2009-07-20 10:28:23 PM
He has obviously never heard of "arresting while white", another highly discriminated group of folks that get called racist or sexist whenever they question anyone of the opposite gender/race.
 
2009-07-20 10:28:28 PM
Magorn: kicking in a front door in full gothic regalia, war paint, and several realistic weapons hanging off of me- and more than slightly tipsy

Explain.
 
2009-07-20 10:28:30 PM
bobbette - Howie Spankowitz: Oh...and whether or not it's racist, I don't know. I don't personally know the cops. I hope not and I'm even willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But from the police report, it definitely smacks of shiatty police work.

I know, what kind of cop would escalate that situation?

You're in a situation dealing with an angry old guy... make them feel like their complaint is valid and has been heard and/or addressed, be polite because they'll expect that and if they don't get it, they'll just get madder.

I expect police officers have people yell at them a lot, if you can't get a yelling guy on a rant to simmer down and move along without arresting him, you're in the wrong line of work.

If a guy is hoarsely yelling, "You're here invading my house because of racial profiling! You're here because I'm a black man!" consider the source. Here's a guy who is old enough to personally remember a time when the FBI assassinated Black Panthers. He's got a legitimate distrust of police, and he's a professor at Harvard, which means it's safe to profile him occupationally as having a highly developed sense of superiority, and is potentially a real pain in the ass. It might be a good time to pull out a "We understand if you think we were over-vigilant, sir. We just wanted to make sure your home and your neighbourhood was protected, and we try to respond to every call about a home invasion in a timely manner. If you'll excuse us, we'll just be on our way. Have a good evening now." If he keeps yelling all the way out to the squad car, get in the car and drive away. Problem solved. Responding with "All right, get your hands behind your back, you're under arrest" does not solve the problem, it creates MORE problems. Jesus.



Nonsense... To quote another wise black man "don't start none, won't be none."

It's ironic that you won't the cops to go full Step-n-Fetchit because this prick was being a prick.

As for "old enough to personally remember a time when..." Again, nonsense... You take people as you find them. Anything short of that is racism, I don't care who it's coming from.

I have a cousin who attended what is nearly an all black school, and being one of about three white students, they made his life hell. They tormented the shiat out of him, and he took more than a few beatings.

According to some people in here, he'd be justified in throwing the n-bomb around on a daily basis and treating black people like shiat every time an encounter didn't go his way.

But he doesn't... because he's not a racist prick and he does old the actions of black guys he knew X years ago to guide his encounters with blacks he meets today.

Maybe they didn't need to arrest him, but they damn sure shouldn't be expected to mollycoddle some prick who's out of line, thus legitimizing and rewarding his shiatty conduct.
 
2009-07-20 10:29:04 PM
keypusher: hyperflame: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

So... why did he need to be questioned AFTER he showed ID?

Police. Stupidity. Plain & Simple.

Read. the. report.


Cops always tell the truth.
 
2009-07-20 10:29:28 PM
Wouldn't it be funny if someone robbed his house while he is at the arraignment.
 
2009-07-20 10:31:56 PM
Aexia: keypusher: hyperflame: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

So... why did he need to be questioned AFTER he showed ID?

Police. Stupidity. Plain & Simple.

Read. the. report.

Cops always tell the truth.


Read the report. Decide for yourself if the cop is telling the truth or not.
 
2009-07-20 10:31:58 PM
Daobaz: He has obviously never heard of "arresting while white", another highly discriminated group of folks that get called racist or sexist whenever they question anyone of the opposite gender/race.
 
2009-07-20 10:32:20 PM
er. "and he doesn't let the old the actions of..."
 
2009-07-20 10:32:27 PM
Man, I can't believe the number of people here who are willing to immediately call Gates a race baiter. It's like a knee-jerk reaction. Any time a black guy claims to have been wronged because of his race, a huge number of people will jump down his throat and tell him to shut up. "There's no such thing as racism (except reverse racism)!"

How about just maybe there is some validity to his claim? Maybe people should be allowed to get angry with bad policing without being arrested? Maybe a white guy would have been treated better from the start? How is that so hard to believe?
 
2009-07-20 10:32:48 PM
Magorn: The cops simply matched the address on the driver's license to the one on the door, wished us a goodnight, and gave me a useful tip for kicking in doors that didn't involve spraining my ankle

And you're not going to share that with us?

I just found out that white people can kick in all the doors they want and I need to know how to do it without hurting my ankle - of course, I'd probably get shot by the homeowner, but I don't want to hurt my ankle.
 
2009-07-20 10:34:22 PM
hyperflame: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

So... why did he need to be questioned AFTER he showed ID?

Police. Stupidity. Plain & Simple.


what questions were asked after he provided the id¿
according to the police report, the only questions were coming from gates.
...in case you missed it- the .pdf of the police report (new window)
 
2009-07-20 10:34:42 PM
mud_shark: Magorn: The cops simply matched the address on the driver's license to the one on the door, wished us a goodnight, and gave me a useful tip for kicking in doors that didn't involve spraining my ankle

And you're not going to share that with us?

I just found out that white people can kick in all the doors they want and I need to know how to do it without hurting my ankle - of course, I'd probably get shot by the homeowner, but I don't want to hurt my ankle.


Dont forget your 2 forms of ID.
 
2009-07-20 10:36:23 PM
Suzi Succubus:
There is a difference between incriminating yourself and being polite to someone who has alot of power and a short fuse. A simple sir and mam get you out of many jams.

I do agree with What_Now though. Nobody should fear getting arrested for being impolite. It is bullshiat. It is not a racial issue though.


Depending on how far you stretch "impolite" you do wander into crime area pretty quickly; for better or worse being non-cooperative or committing verbal assault will quickly, and legitimately, get you arrested.
 
2009-07-20 10:37:13 PM
Call_me_Madame: I am a middle-aged white woman....

Fap.
/likes middle aged white women.
 
2009-07-20 10:37:51 PM
ilikeracecars: the nation's pre-eminent black scholar

the nation's pre-eminent jewish scholar
the nation's pre-eminent female scholar
the nation's pre-eminent white scholar
the nation's pre-eminent asian scholar
the nation's pre-eminent gay scholar


Is it kinda racist for me to think its strange that we know for a fact that he is the most scholarly black person in America?


Just to clarify since the author of the article choose his or her words poorly. There are a number disciplines ranging from African American history to critical race theory that look at race and racism. He is the head of likely the most prestigious institute specializing in such disciplines, so he is literally American's foremost black scholar, in the sense of being the foremost scholar in his disipline.
 
2009-07-20 10:41:06 PM
what_now: The guy has been on The History Channel more times than most farkers have gotten laid.

He would routinely forget to pay his phone bill.


Before now, it never occured to me that we actually knew each other, let alone worked together.
 
2009-07-20 10:41:32 PM
Barakku: Suzi Succubus:
There is a difference between incriminating yourself and being polite to someone who has alot of power and a short fuse. A simple sir and mam get you out of many jams.

I do agree with What_Now though. Nobody should fear getting arrested for being impolite. It is bullshiat. It is not a racial issue though.

Depending on how far you stretch "impolite" you do wander into crime area pretty quickly; for better or worse being non-cooperative or committing verbal assault will quickly, and legitimately, get you arrested.


I would like to the validity of an arrest for disorderly conduct rises as the "Do you know who I am card?" is played, even more so when the race card is played in conjunction.
 
2009-07-20 10:42:08 PM
^think
 
2009-07-20 10:43:11 PM
what_now:
Unless the police officer is my MOTHER, they have no right to criticize my manners.


And...I got your back.
If I ever get jury duty.
 
2009-07-20 10:45:05 PM
So, today I'm waiting to get into garage parking and the guy in front of me sticks his head out his car window and yells, "This is the cardholder entrance. You need a card to get in." I'm thinking he's at the wrong entrance. "You need me to back up?" I yell, even though there's plenty of room for him to back out. I see him heave a sigh. He gets out of his car, walks back to my car and proceeds to explain patiently to me that the daily parking is on the other side and that I need to go there. He's all, "It's $.75 a minute so(shrugs apologetically) you may want to park somewhere else."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pink polo popped collar needle dick Dockers-wearing teabagging fratchoade! I have a card." Just kidding. I thanked him rolled up my window and entered behind him using my card.

Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pinched-faced wrinkled at 30 bleached blond puking up every meal fake ass skank ho!" Just kidding. I said, "I don't work here," as I adjusted the strap on my briefcase. She says, "Oh."

That was just the first hour of the day. Today. I won't even talk about what happens when I get on an elevator. Or walk into a store. Or visit the doctor. Or go to the library. Or walk down the street. And I'm intelligent, clean, mainstream, articulate and good looking. I'm also very obviously a woman. In Oakland, CA. I can't imagine what a black man has to deal with every day at Harvard.

So, yeah. Dr. Gates was probably not in a good mood by the end of the day. He just wanted to get home, order take out, smoke a bowl and chill. But no. He's seriously lucky he didn't get shot.

The cop had no legal reason to remain once he verified identification. But he had to put that uppity colored man in his place and that place is jail--once he realized he couldn't shoot him. In his own home. After he showed ID. Like this was Stalinist Russia or something.
 
2009-07-20 10:47:07 PM
what_now: Magorn: kicking in a front door in full gothic regalia, war paint, and several realistic weapons hanging off of me- and more than slightly tipsy

Explain.


Well, this will come as a shock to you,I know, but alcohol was involved, both in the planning, execution and after-action stages of this story.

IIRC me and two of my extraordinarily creative friends where discussing what to do the following weekend while polishing off a rather excellent bottle of whiskey, when one of them noted the proximity to Easter and suggested we have an old-fashioned Easter Egg hunt. Then the other of em, in his best Hemingway impression pipes up "extraordinarily vicious creatures, Easter eggs, you let one turn on you and you're a goner."

and in a fit of divine madness, the Royal Hunt of the Eggs was declared and planned, and by the weekend we had a few dozen people in their best Mad Max inspired wardrobe, festooned with wooden and metal swords, and every manner of Nerf assault weapon known to man, and several gallons of Cth'ulu punch (it's a little known science fact but Gummy worms exposed to potent alcohol expand to about ten times their original size and look extremely tentacle like) a few hundred hidden Easter Eggs in a nerby public park and a man in a pith Helmet and the full regimental regalia of the Kings Own Lancers.

When the Easter Eggs failed to live up to their reputation as deadly and vicious prey (unless you got a bit of shell in yer eye) we of Course were forced to turn on one another and a mighty battle royal ensued fuels by much partaking of the vile green Spirits.

Thus when we returned to our hosts house, and door failed to open, it seemed perfectly logical that we should break it down. Being myself a rather huge lump pf a man I bold strode forward and said, "If there's a door to be kicked in, I'm just the man to do it" and by god I did, even if it took me about three kicks to do it properly (the Goddamn thing wouldn't stay still and fight like a man)

It was on the third and triumphal kick that our boisterous cheers were cut short by a large disembodied flashlight shouting "FREEZE MPD"! and I found myself wishing I'd worn brown trousers that day
 
2009-07-20 10:47:49 PM
I'm Henry Louis Gates Jr, and THIS is a moment to remember

/obscure?
//(pops)
 
2009-07-20 10:48:20 PM
Skip Gates grew up in Piedmont W.Va and was a douchebag when he was young. Now he is just a douchebag and a race pimp.

And Skip, what happens to black men in American includes being elected President of the United States. Quit your biatching.

/Grew up in Westernport.
 
2009-07-20 10:48:27 PM
Dobbler - Man, I can't believe the number of people here who are willing to immediately call Gates a race baiter. It's like a knee-jerk reaction. Any time a black guy claims to have been wronged because of his race, a huge number of people will jump down his throat and tell him to shut up. "There's no such thing as racism (except reverse racism)!"

How about just maybe there is some validity to his claim? Maybe people should be allowed to get angry with bad policing without being arrested? Maybe a white guy would have been treated better from the start? How is that so hard to believe?



What's "bad policing" about responding to a B&E in progress report and attempting to identify the person who B&E'd as the legal occupant? That seems like due diligence to me.

If not, all any burglar would have to do is get inside before the police arrive and say "Nope, not coming out. Not opening the door. I say it's my house and you have to trust me."

As for Bates' claim... He doesn't "claim" anything. Even his lawyer doesn't actually claim anything.

The cop has an extremely detailed and pretty even-handed report complete with a witness and several other police from two separate agencies.

Bates and his lawyer have tight-lipped intimations... That suggests someone gathering all the details and evidence before committing to a story. They're making sure there was no mic on the officer or camera phone being wielded by a neighbor or something.

They're dripping out little vague implications while still crafting their story to make sure they don't trip themselves up with erroneous and falsifiable details.
 
2009-07-20 10:49:10 PM
girl6:

You sound fat.
Or hot.
/can't make up my mind.
 
2009-07-20 10:50:54 PM
SwingingJohnson: "He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.

After he showed the cops his ID they should have said, Thyank you sir, have a nice day."

End of story.


This. Sorry but this sounds less like racist cop and more like douchebag cop. Sorry but just because you carry a badge and a gun doesn't make you all powerful. He should have said " well keep it down " and left. End of story. Sadly he wanted to show how awesome he was and it escallated to this shiatstorm. The cop gets what he deserves and I hope reverand al kicks his ass.
 
2009-07-20 10:53:03 PM
girl6: So, today I'm waiting to get into garage parking and the guy in front of me sticks his head out his car window and yells, "This is the cardholder entrance. You need a card to get in." I'm thinking he's at the wrong entrance. "You need me to back up?" I yell, even though there's plenty of room for him to back out. I see him heave a sigh. He gets out of his car, walks back to my car and proceeds to explain patiently to me that the daily parking is on the other side and that I need to go there. He's all, "It's $.75 a minute so(shrugs apologetically) you may want to park somewhere else."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pink polo popped collar needle dick Dockers-wearing teabagging fratchoade! I have a card." Just kidding. I thanked him rolled up my window and entered behind him using my card.

Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pinched-faced wrinkled at 30 bleached blond puking up every meal fake ass skank ho!" Just kidding. I said, "I don't work here," as I adjusted the strap on my briefcase. She says, "Oh."

That was just the first hour of the day. Today. I won't even talk about what happens when I get on an elevator. Or walk into a store. Or visit the doctor. Or go to the library. Or walk down the street. And I'm intelligent, clean, mainstream, articulate and good looking. I'm also very obviously a woman. In Oakland, CA. I can't imagine what a black man has to deal with every day at Harvard.

So, yeah. Dr. Gates was probably not in a good mood by the end of the day. He just wanted to get home, order take out, smoke a bowl and chill. But no. He's seriously lucky he didn't get shot.

The cop had no legal reason to remain once he verified identification. But he had to put that uppity colored man in his place and that place is jail--once he realized he couldn't shoot him. In his own home. After he showed ID. Like this was Stalinist Russia or something.



Excellent post. You have a way with words.

BTW, just heard he will be on CNN Wednesday night discussing this.
 
2009-07-20 10:53:41 PM
girl6: Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

yeah that never happens to white people.

offtopic:
The last time someone came up to me at grocery store and did that, my response was a shocking "you don't really think i would work here. do you?" lol
 
2009-07-20 10:54:19 PM
ham-tomato: Just to clarify since the author of the article choose his or her words poorly. There are a number disciplines ranging from African American history to critical race theory that look at race and racism. He is the head of likely the most prestigious institute specializing in such disciplines, so he is literally American's foremost black scholar, in the sense of being the foremost scholar in his disipline.

That's pretty scary that someone who should have a clear idea of problems with race relations and how they should be dealt with would be so quick to play the race card.

If he really felt he was being "profiled", he should have calmly taken down the officers information and filed a complaint about it.
 
2009-07-20 10:56:16 PM
Anybody ever see the COPS episode where they were responding to a breaking and entering call, got to the house and found a dude inside, and he claimed it was his house but he'd misplaced his keys, and they looked at the mail on the kitchen table and said "how come all the mail is addressed to a woman with a different last name from you?" and he said it was his cousin's house, but he was living there with her, and they said "okay, as soon as we talk to your cousin, we''ll be on our way" and when they got in touch with the homeowner, she told them she had never heard of him?

What a pack of racist pricks those guys were.
 
2009-07-20 10:58:08 PM
girl6, there was about ten years of my life when I couldn't walk from a restaurant table to the restaurant bathroom without AT LEAST one other patron stopping me and telling me they were ready to order.

TWICE, I've been stopped in the hallway of a hotel, where I was staying on a business trip, and asked to make up the room.

Once, on another business trip, I was walking back from my airplane seat to the bathroom, and another passenger shoved a dirty drink glass into my hand.

And don't even get me started on the job interviews (two) where they said they needed a native speaker. (Born and bred, thanks).

The guy was a dick. I dont' care how black he is.
 
2009-07-20 10:59:17 PM
chu2dogg: girl6: Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

yeah that never happens to white people.

offtopic:
The last time someone came up to me at grocery store and did that, my response was a shocking "you don't really think i would work here. do you?" lol


I once made the mistake of wearing an orange hoodie to the HOME DEPOT. I ended up spending 20 minutes telling an old lady and some other people where to find what they needed.
 
2009-07-20 10:59:34 PM
By the time police arrived, Gates was already inside. Police say he refused to come outside to speak with an officer, who told him he was investigating a report of a break-in.

"Why, because I'm a black man in America?" Gates said, according to a police report.


um, no because someone was reported to have been breaking into this house, and there is obvious signs of forced entry.

And no the police shouldn't just walk away once the they get the mans id either, cause the cops still doesn't know situation in the house. Is the mans family under duress?

Once it's established that the guy owns the house, that there isn't anyone in the house under duress, the cop should say "thank you sir, better have someone fix your door so you're safe, have a nice day".
 
2009-07-20 11:00:58 PM
All you people going on about how he deserved arrest for indignance (fair or unfair) in his own home should be ashamed of yourselves. I don't know if it's racism or plain old cop-loving slavish bootlicking and really don't care.

Regarding whether the cops could traipse over his threshold without warrants, how about what's been common law since forever: "The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the crown. It may be frail - its roof may shake - the wind may blow through it - the storm may enter - the rain may enter - but the King of England cannot enter." Best to err on the side of caution there.

There could legitimately be an issue of establishing identity. So check his ID, cuff him if he really is such a scary scary black man, then LET HIM GO once you've verified and apologize for the trouble.

Nothing irritates me more than cops in the wrong (well-intentioned or not) smugly saying "well NOW we have something to arrest you for". That's all this disorderly conduct charge is and you all know it. Being common doesn't make it just.
 
2009-07-20 11:02:35 PM
chu2dogg: girl6: Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

yeah that never happens to white people.



Why on earth do people think that pointing out the fact that 'it happens to white people to' is at all adequate reply . Do you really think that this woman is claiming that it NEVER happens to white people when she makes her statement? There is really no right answer here, if you say 'yes' then you admit to attributing this person with an insane position that they never actually held (straw-manning) and if you say 'no' then you realize your point is irrelevant to her argument but none the less felt the need to say it anyway.

Her point is one of frequency of such events, as was clear since she listed to events that happened in the same hour.

And if you are a troll, well played.
 
2009-07-20 11:03:05 PM
technicolor-misfit: Anybody ever see the COPS episode where they were responding to a breaking and entering call, got to the house and found a dude inside, and he claimed it was his house but he'd misplaced his keys, and they looked at the mail on the kitchen table and said "how come all the mail is addressed to a woman with a different last name from you?" and he said it was his cousin's house, but he was living there with her, and they said "okay, as soon as we talk to your cousin, we'll be on our way" and when they got in touch with the homeowner, she told them she had never heard of him?

What a pack of racist pricks those guys were.


Oh wow. So you judge police action based on what you see on COPS? Wow. You are aware that the officers being filmed are completely aware that they are on camera right?

Either this or you're a troll.
 
2009-07-20 11:04:24 PM
girl6: So, today I'm waiting to get into garage parking and the guy in front of me sticks his head out his car window and yells, "This is the cardholder entrance. You need a card to get in." I'm thinking he's at the wrong entrance. "You need me to back up?" I yell, even though there's plenty of room for him to back out. I see him heave a sigh. He gets out of his car, walks back to my car and proceeds to explain patiently to me that the daily parking is on the other side and that I need to go there. He's all, "It's $.75 a minute so(shrugs apologetically) you may want to park somewhere else."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pink polo popped collar needle dick Dockers-wearing teabagging fratchoade! I have a card." Just kidding. I thanked him rolled up my window and entered behind him using my card.

Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pinched-faced wrinkled at 30 bleached blond puking up every meal fake ass skank ho!" Just kidding. I said, "I don't work here," as I adjusted the strap on my briefcase. She says, "Oh."

That was just the first hour of the day. Today. I won't even talk about what happens when I get on an elevator. Or walk into a store. Or visit the doctor. Or go to the library. Or walk down the street. And I'm intelligent, clean, mainstream, articulate and good looking. I'm also very obviously a woman. In Oakland, CA. I can't imagine what a black man has to deal with every day at Harvard.

So, yeah. Dr. Gates was probably not in a good mood by the end of the day. He just wanted to get home, order take out, smoke a bowl and chill. But no. He's seriously lucky he didn't get shot.

The cop had no legal reason to remain once he verified identification. But he had to put that uppity colored man in his place and that place is jail--once he realized he couldn't shoot him. In his own home. After he showed ID. Like this was Stalinist Russia or something.


Sorry you have a hard time, Tawana
 
2009-07-20 11:04:53 PM
Maybe the cops were dicks AND the guy is a race baiting douche?

We keep trying to vilify the cops or professor. Maybe they both deserve it.
 
2009-07-20 11:05:47 PM
I was detained once because someone called and reported a "white male with a t-shirt" breaking into cars. Luckily the witness said they had the wrong person. Does that mean I was a victim of racism? Note, where I lived, everyone was white...and it was summer.
 
2009-07-20 11:07:23 PM
vudukungfu:

You sound fat.
Or hot.
/can't make up my mind.


5'5", 135lbs. I've had to look in the mirror to see my feet since I was 13. My DD's block the view.

/can't make up my mind if I'll be ignoring you at Dragon Con.
 
2009-07-20 11:07:59 PM
I find it hilarious that the broad who called in reported "two black males with backpacks". I wonder why she's not commenting.

Whether the guy acted like a total asshole or not (which is his right as a citizen, as Boston/Cambridge cops should be well aware of), sounds like he kinda got farked over.
 
2009-07-20 11:10:28 PM
I thought this guy was supposed to be smart.
 
2009-07-20 11:12:27 PM
Lacerated Spleen: I thought this guy was supposed to be smart.

Affirmative action FTW.
 
2009-07-20 11:12:31 PM
I get emails about once a week from campus police with a crime alert about somebody getting mugged or assaulted on or around campus; rarely is the description anything beyond 'black male' and maybe, maybe a height. Occasionally a description of dress

Personal favorite was when the only description of the suspect was 'black male wearing a gray sweatshirt' but the victim was able to describe the handgun down to the last detail.
 
2009-07-20 11:13:15 PM
girl6:

The cop had no legal reason to remain once he verified identification. But he had to put that uppity colored man in his place and that place is jail--once he realized he couldn't shoot him. In his own home. After he showed ID. Like this was Stalinist Russia or something.



You can't be serious? So a cop responds to a b&e are rascist? At what point of responding do they become rascist? when they get the call? when they find the door forced open? When they demand Id from the person in the house who matches the description of the original call? And when the homeowner finally provides id, he's supposed to be all "well everything is fine here". Why should the cop think everything is fine?

If my wife had to break into our house, and the police responded. And upon their responce if my wife was acting paranoid, but eventually provided id. I sure as hell would want them to at the VERY FARKING minimum make sure somebody else isn't in the house endangering our kids. That's not rascist.
 
2009-07-20 11:14:00 PM
Void_Beavis - technicolor-misfit: Anybody ever see the COPS episode where they were responding to a breaking and entering call, got to the house and found a dude inside, and he claimed it was his house but he'd misplaced his keys, and they looked at the mail on the kitchen table and said "how come all the mail is addressed to a woman with a different last name from you?" and he said it was his cousin's house, but he was living there with her, and they said "okay, as soon as we talk to your cousin, we'll be on our way" and when they got in touch with the homeowner, she told them she had never heard of him?

What a pack of racist pricks those guys were.



Oh wow. So you judge police action based on what you see on COPS? Wow. You are aware that the officers being filmed are completely aware that they are on camera right?

Either this or you're a troll.


The point had nothing to do with the behavior of the cops on the show. They could have been asses, they could have been choirboys. It's moot.

The point was they arrived at a house that was the subject of a breaking and entering call, found a black man inside, and did not leave until they'd verified that he was the legal occupant of the home... which he wasn't.

This what everyone here is having a shiat-fit about and calling the cop racist about... for not taking the Prof's word for it when he claimed it was his house.

The point was had those cops done what everyone in this thread is saying they should have done, they would have driven off and left a burglar in some lady's house.

My calling them "a pack of racist pricks" was sarcasm.

If this guy had a legit complaint, he'd have told his side of the story... but he hasn't said squat. Only his lawyer has spoken, and he hasn't said anything either. He's just made vague accusations.

The cop has a highly-detailed blow-by-blow report with an independent corroborating witness AND several police from two separate agencies as witnesses as well.
 
2009-07-20 11:14:42 PM
I wish I could understand why we allow such vague disorderly conduct laws to be put in the books. Cops have complete discretion to take anyone into custody and claim it was because of disorderly conduct. Want to prove otherwise? Good luck with that.
 
2009-07-20 11:15:55 PM
girl6: vudukungfu:

You sound fat.
Or hot.
/can't make up my mind.

5'5", 135lbs. I've had to look in the mirror to see my feet since I was 13. My DD's block the view.

/can't make up my mind if I'll be ignoring you at Dragon Con.


Pics or it didn't happen. :-)

/Stay strong, sista!
 
2009-07-20 11:16:23 PM
Sutpen's Hundred: Personal favorite was when the only description of the suspect was 'black male wearing a gray sweatshirt' but the victim was able to describe the handgun down to the last detail.

OMG, WEAPON FOCUS EFFECT IS SO HILARIOUS!

/welcome to research from decades ago
 
2009-07-20 11:17:39 PM
Unless there are witnesses, we'll never really know what happened. It's just a case of he-said/he-said. Until then, this is just a Rorschach test for your views on race and the police.
 
2009-07-20 11:19:22 PM
Fish in a Barrel: Unless there are witnesses, we'll never really know what happened. It's just a case of he-said/he-said. Until then, this is just a Rorschach test for your views on race and the police.

It looks like a pig raping a monkey to me. Or a flower.
 
2009-07-20 11:19:55 PM
i28.tinypic.com

Aaawful lotta closet racists in here.
 
2009-07-20 11:20:52 PM
That's funny, I thought Condoleezza Rice was the pre-eminent Black scholar in America, if by "pre-eminent" you mean famous.
/And would know not to get in a screaming match with police! I mean, seriously, how smart do you have to be? I'm not a professor, but even I know that one answers calmly, accurately, and politely when cops ask you a question.
//This guy is a schmuck, IMO.
///Condi in 2012!
 
2009-07-20 11:21:10 PM
OgreMagi 2009-07-20 09:20:45 PM
If I break into my own home and the police show up and demand I prove I have a right to be there, I will damn well show my ID and thank them for doing a good job protecting my property. I certainly won't act like a complete douche nozzle.

What if after doing all that and you have succesfully entered your house, the cops are still insistent on you proving who you are? and they do it in a not so polite way?

I think the problem with this incident is not so much the mechanics of how things went but rather the tones and choice words that were probably exchange.
 
2009-07-20 11:21:29 PM
Fish in a Barrel: Unless there are witnesses, we'll never really know what happened. It's just a case of he-said/he-said. Until then, this is just a Rorschach test for your views on race and the police.

The police report has a certain verisimilitude. But supposedly there were a bunch of people on the sidewalk hearing Gates act all uppity butthurt, so we'll see.
 
2009-07-20 11:22:15 PM
Sutpen's Hundred - I get emails about once a week from campus police with a crime alert about somebody getting mugged or assaulted on or around campus; rarely is the description anything beyond 'black male' and maybe, maybe a height. Occasionally a description of dress

Personal favorite was when the only description of the suspect was 'black male wearing a gray sweatshirt' but the victim was able to describe the handgun down to the last detail.



What's to describe about your average black guy?

Seriously... I walked up on a guy breaking into my car one night, and when I described him to the cops it was "black guy, mid-20's, about 6'3', maybe 220lb's, baseball cap, dark blue polo shirt, and jeans."

If he'd had blonde hair I'd have told them that, but he didn't.
 
2009-07-20 11:22:24 PM
GentlemanJ: ///Condi in 2012!

Jindal/Condi 2012 with a guarantee that Palin will be Secretary of State. The amount of suckage on that ticket would end the world.
 
2009-07-20 11:22:50 PM
Fon_Win:

That's not rascist.

Right. It's wasist.
 
2009-07-20 11:23:09 PM
technicolor-misfit: Void_Beavis - technicolor-misfit: Anybody ever see the COPS episode where they were responding to a breaking and entering call, got to the house and found a dude inside, and he claimed it was his house but he'd misplaced his keys, and they looked at the mail on the kitchen table and said "how come all the mail is addressed to a woman with a different last name from you?" and he said it was his cousin's house, but he was living there with her, and they said "okay, as soon as we talk to your cousin, we'll be on our way" and when they got in touch with the homeowner, she told them she had never heard of him?

What a pack of racist pricks those guys were.


Oh wow. So you judge police action based on what you see on COPS? Wow. You are aware that the officers being filmed are completely aware that they are on camera right?

Either this or you're a troll.

The point had nothing to do with the behavior of the cops on the show. They could have been asses, they could have been choirboys. It's moot.

The point was they arrived at a house that was the subject of a breaking and entering call, found a black man inside, and did not leave until they'd verified that he was the legal occupant of the home... which he wasn't.

This what everyone here is having a shiat-fit about and calling the cop racist about... for not taking the Prof's word for it when he claimed it was his house.

The point was had those cops done what everyone in this thread is saying they should have done, they would have driven off and left a burglar in some lady's house.

My calling them "a pack of racist pricks" was sarcasm.

If this guy had a legit complaint, he'd have told his side of the story... but he hasn't said squat. Only his lawyer has spoken, and he hasn't said anything either. He's just made vague accusations.

The cop has a highly-detailed blow-by-blow report with an independent corroborating witness AND several police from two separate agencies as witnesses as well.


After they saw his ID they had no business arresting him on his own property without a warrant.

And the issue here was even after he showed his ID he was still being questioned. I'd be farking pissed off too if some cop was acting intimidating and continued questioning me after it was verified that it was my own home.

Laws are legal.
 
2009-07-20 11:23:38 PM
girl6: vudukungfu:

You sound fat.
Or hot.
/can't make up my mind.

5'5", 135lbs. I've had to look in the mirror to see my feet since I was 13. My DD's block the view.

/can't make up my mind if I'll be ignoring you at Dragon Con.


It's a man, baby.
/There are no hot girls on the internet, just pictures of them
 
2009-07-20 11:25:36 PM
GentlemanJ:
///Condi in 2012!


Chisholm, in '69.
 
2009-07-20 11:26:49 PM
tonesskin: GentlemanJ: ///Condi in 2012!

Jindal/Condi 2012 with a guarantee that Palin will be Secretary of State. The amount of suckage on that ticket would end the world.


I never mentioned Jindal or Palin. Frankly, I don't know who I would want as VP--but I definitely want Condi leading the ticket.
/By 2011, you'll be praying that someone will take power away from the Democrats.
 
2009-07-20 11:27:24 PM
I hate racism. That said, I wish Gates would have tired to understand the situation and respond accordingly, his actions just perpetuate the unfortunate stereotype about black men not being able to deal with police on a personal basis without getting angry. Imagine what might have happened if Prof. Gates would have answered the door and said he lived there, produced verifying identification, oh, and thanked the officers for investigating a reported break-in at his residence. We wouldn't have heard about it on Fark, that's for sure.

/C'mon, Henry, it's time to become a person instead of a 'black man' ,no lie.
 
2009-07-20 11:27:26 PM
When I was a teen, police pulled up to investigate me trying to break into my house after I'd lost my keys. If I hadn't been able to produce ID that proved I lived there, I'd have gone to jail, too.
 
2009-07-20 11:27:59 PM
I was in my drive way finishing my cigarette one night when a cop with no lights on blocked me in. I was house sitting for the summer and didn't have the address on my license. A few more cars came up and they all kept asking me to "tell the truth" as to where I live. I kept answering the same questions over and over.

After I had enough of this I reached over and pushed the garage door opener button. Upon seeing that they said "Have a nice evening" and left.

Still didn't like being practically detained in my driveway for over 30 minutes.
 
2009-07-20 11:28:34 PM
Cop made big mistake and will regret this. If he doesn't lose his job this time, the next time he gets involved in any problem with a minority his goose is cooked.
 
2009-07-20 11:28:36 PM
Fon_Win:

You can't be serious?


No, I can't be serious. Except for that time when the plane was about to crash. They were all counting on me. I was surely serious then.

/and don't call me Shirley.
 
2009-07-20 11:29:16 PM
girl6: So, today I'm waiting

You are going to have to put in a lot more work than that to make this alt convincing.

1/10
 
2009-07-20 11:29:33 PM
mediablitz 2009-07-20 09:28:24 PM
"He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he 'exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior.' He was released later that day on his own recognizance. An arraignment was scheduled for Aug. 26. Police refused to comment on the arrest."

He wasn't arrested for breaking into his own house. He was arrested for being an ass. He wouldn't come out at first, wouldn't show identification, then made it a black thing. If I see two people trying to bust a door down, I'm going to call the cops too. This guy had a chip on his shoulder as big as the damn door he broke.


Not to play devil's advocate but how do you know it wasn't the cop who was an ass first?

Not sure about you but is it that much of a stretch of the imagination that cops typically are the assholes first and when the avg citizen reacts to it, they are charged with disordely conduct, assaulting an officer etc etc.. and then people like you ALWAYS gives the cop the benefit of doubt! no wonder so many cops walk around with an air of impunity!

If the cop had tasered this guy or beat him to a pulp this would most defintiely be an anti cop thread.
 
2009-07-20 11:30:10 PM
MetaCarpal: When I was a teen, police pulled up to investigate me trying to break into my house after I'd lost my keys. If I hadn't been able to produce ID that proved I lived there, I'd have gone to jail, too.

Sounds like somebody didn't RTFA
 
2009-07-20 11:30:25 PM
GentlemanJ: -but I definitely want Condi leading the ticket.

Me too! I love comedy.
 
2009-07-20 11:30:32 PM
girl6: So, today I'm waiting to get into garage parking and the guy in front of me sticks his head out his car window and yells, "This is the cardholder entrance. You need a card to get in." I'm thinking he's at the wrong entrance. "You need me to back up?" I yell, even though there's plenty of room for him to back out. I see him heave a sigh. He gets out of his car, walks back to my car and proceeds to explain patiently to me that the daily parking is on the other side and that I need to go there. He's all, "It's $.75 a minute so(shrugs apologetically) you may want to park somewhere else."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pink polo popped collar needle dick Dockers-wearing teabagging fratchoade! I have a card." Just kidding. I thanked him rolled up my window and entered behind him using my card.

Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pinched-faced wrinkled at 30 bleached blond puking up every meal fake ass skank ho!" Just kidding. I said, "I don't work here," as I adjusted the strap on my briefcase. She says, "Oh."

That was just the first hour of the day. Today. I won't even talk about what happens when I get on an elevator. Or walk into a store. Or visit the doctor. Or go to the library. Or walk down the street. And I'm intelligent, clean, mainstream, articulate and good looking. I'm also very obviously a woman. In Oakland, CA. I can't imagine what a black man has to deal with every day at Harvard.

So, yeah. Dr. Gates was probably not in a good mood by the end of the day. He just wanted to get home, order take out, smoke a bowl and chill. But no. He's seriously lucky he didn't get shot.

The cop had no legal reason to remain once he verified identification. But he had to put that uppity colored man in his place and that place is jail--once he realized he couldn't shoot him. In his own home. After he showed ID. Like this was Stalinist Russia or something.


You sound fat. And Goth.
 
2009-07-20 11:33:25 PM
SuperNinjaToad: Not to play devil's advocate but how do you know it wasn't the cop who was an ass first?

If you read several of the stories on this, it was the prof who started out by refusing to come out, refusing to supply ID, etc.

He was in full ass mode from the beginning. The cops could have handled it better, but if I BREAK INTO MY HOUSE, I would expect to have to talk to the cops if a neighbor calls it in. He went out of his way to make the whole thing confrontational from the get go.

Could the cops had less of a chip on their shoulder? Sure. Just not may do. This was more a class thing than a racism thing to me (other than the prof pretending he wasn't acting like a privileged dick)
 
2009-07-20 11:33:45 PM
You know, I've read a lot of bad cop stories on Fark and a significant number of them contain the "cop gives the miscreant the break and threatens the good guy (story narrator) because the miscreant has connections" line.

Example: Wasn't there a Farker who claimed his daughter's arm was broken in two places like a W after a woman ran her over, and the first cop who showed up knew the woman? The cop declared it was all the girl's fault. He threatened to beat the shiat out of the Farker for not listening attentively while his daughter was being loaded in the ambulance.

Gates is pretty famous and in some towns the white equivalent of a local famous person of import would have been recognized and given a break straight away, right or wrong.

Somehow neither his neighbor nor the cops recognized him in this situation.

Now it was very unwise of him to throw a temper tantrum in front of cops, but to pretend there isn't some racial bias in this is also pretty stupid.
 
2009-07-20 11:34:45 PM
SuperNinjaToad: and then people like you ALWAYS gives the cop the benefit of doubt!

Totally missed this. Shut up, you cock. I go after cops all the time. I grew up around cops. I know what dicks they can be.

Nice job assuming, ass.
 
2009-07-20 11:36:04 PM
mediablitz:

You are going to have to put in a lot more work than that to make this alt convincing.

1/10


You don't believe me 'cos I'm articulate. Are you a cop?

www dot spockjones dot blogspot dot com
 
2009-07-20 11:36:36 PM
Egalitarian: Now it was very unwise of him to throw a temper tantrum in front of cops, but to pretend there isn't some racial bias in this is also pretty stupid.

This is true. If it weren't a white cop we'd never hear anything about it.
 
2009-07-20 11:37:29 PM
chu2dogg: Whatever will us po' oppressed white males do?! If only we got a fair shake here in Amerikkka!

And do you not think white people get shiat from cops as well?


Well I'm sure interracial couples and gay whites get shiat from cops
 
2009-07-20 11:38:14 PM
FYI EVERYBODY - THE GUY WILL BE ON CNN WED NIGHT DISCUSSING THIS.
 
2009-07-20 11:38:28 PM
girl6: You don't believe me 'cos I'm articulate

I don't know how long I can keep this up.
 
2009-07-20 11:38:29 PM
what_now: locks himself out

FTFA:

Ogletree said Gates had returned from a trip to China on Thursday with a driver, when he found his front door jammed. He went through the back door into the home - which he leases from Harvard - shut off an alarm and worked with the driver to get the door open. The driver left, and Gates was on the phone with the property's management company when police first arrived.
 
2009-07-20 11:42:20 PM
girl6: You don't believe me 'cos I'm articulate. Are you a cop?

www dot spockjones dot blogspot dot com


so are you wishing and hoping for gender reassignment surgery?

I don't believe you because you are amazingly simplistic in your sad attempt to alt. You need to try a LOT harder to be convincing.
 
2009-07-20 11:43:29 PM
GentlemanJ: That's funny, I thought Condoleezza Rice was the pre-eminent Black scholar in America, if by "pre-eminent" you mean famous.
/And would know not to get in a screaming match with police! I mean, seriously, how smart do you have to be? I'm not a professor, but even I know that one answers calmly, accurately, and politely when cops ask you a question.
//This guy is a schmuck, IMO.
///Condi in 2012!


Condoleeza was a Russian scholar.

This guy has been lecturing on African american studies for decades.

Why can't you idgits get that?

Condi was so awesome as an NSA adviser who couldn't be in the same room as Rumsfeld without tearing up. Who let a huge attack happen after being on the job for 9.5 months. Hell Obama has only had this economy for 7 months and you people think it's his fault.

As far as her record as Secretary of State goes, well that's a mixed one. I don't think anyone could have done well under Bush but the fact that she had to threaten to "draft" State Department employees to serve in Iraq speaks volumes about her leadership skills.


//Spell checker told me to capitalize African but not American.
//Iz Racist?
 
2009-07-20 11:44:19 PM
mediablitz: girl6: You don't believe me 'cos I'm articulate. Are you a cop?

www dot spockjones dot blogspot dot com

so are you wishing and hoping for gender reassignment surgery?

I don't believe you because you are amazingly simplistic in your sad attempt to alt. You need to try a LOT harder to be convincing.


I'm sorry.

This guy is going to be on CNN whining about this. Poor guy, I hope all the money he makes from this HORRIBLE incident is enough to satisfy him.
 
2009-07-20 11:45:47 PM
Rigban:

You sound fat. And Goth.

You sound malodorous. And fat. Like your mom and your girlfriend.
 
2009-07-20 11:46:08 PM
SwingingJohnson - After they saw his ID they had no business arresting him on his own property without a warrant.


If he was being disorderly, sure they did.

I'm no badge-licker, but I'm glad people get arrested for acting like pricks to cops. (unless the cops start it) You don't get to insult and berate people just because you're irritated. Especially when they're simply doing a job they have to do.


And the issue here was even after he showed his ID he was still being questioned. I'd be farking pissed off too if some cop was acting intimidating and continued questioning me after it was verified that it was my own home.


"Acting intimidating?" Show me that source... I can't even find were Gates' lawyer says that, and Gates isn't saying anything.

Where does it say the cop was belligerent? The only one quoted in the story as being belligerent was Bates. "Why because I'm a black man in America?"

Even if the cop did "continue questioning" him, when you refuse to comply with a reasonable, obvious, and easily satisfiable request, it arouses suspicion. That calls for further questioning.

Have you even read the police report? The police report sounds flat, even-handed, and completely believable... The tone is one of complete "WTF?" He doesn't even make Gates out to be an asshole... It's more like "I don't know why, but dude just kept going off" If he made it up, he needs to be a novelist instead of a cop, because he has an absolute gift.

Bates and his lawyer, on the other hand are being all cute and vague, and drama llama-ish "we think the incident speaks for itself."

That tells me everything I need to know about who's been driving this situation into meltdown from the beginning.

And again... the neighbor witnessed the whole thing.
 
2009-07-20 11:48:07 PM
girl6: mediablitz:

You are going to have to put in a lot more work than that to make this alt convincing.

1/10

You don't believe me 'cos I'm articulate. Are you a cop?

www dot spockjones dot blogspot dot com


Oh yeah? Well, http://gentlemanj dot livejournal dot com.
/Two can play that game!
//I was born in Oakland, live 20 miles away.
 
2009-07-20 11:54:37 PM
Egalitarian - You know, I've read a lot of bad cop stories on Fark and a significant number of them contain the "cop gives the miscreant the break and threatens the good guy (story narrator) because the miscreant has connections" line.

Example: Wasn't there a Farker who claimed his daughter's arm was broken in two places like a W after a woman ran her over, and the first cop who showed up knew the woman? The cop declared it was all the girl's fault. He threatened to beat the shiat out of the Farker for not listening attentively while his daughter was being loaded in the ambulance.

Gates is pretty famous and in some towns the white equivalent of a local famous person of import would have been recognized and given a break straight away, right or wrong.

Somehow neither his neighbor nor the cops recognized him in this situation.

Now it was very unwise of him to throw a temper tantrum in front of cops, but to pretend there isn't some racial bias in this is also pretty stupid.




You gotta be kidding me... Now it's racist because he didn't get an "I'm a bigshot" foot rub?

Being notable in the world of academe is not the same thing as being famous. Do you really think anyone in Boston would recognize even one quarter of Harvard's faculty? Do you live in a college town? How many professsors do you know and recognize on sight? (that you haven't had a class with)
 
2009-07-20 11:54:44 PM
He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he "exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior."

Anybody in an assumed position of authority who says something like that needs to have their neck broken three times so that the rest of us can continue on in life with .06% less stupid. Sounds ex-farking-actly like the usual mid-to-late-90's authoritarian language-vomit I was raised to shake my fist at.
 
2009-07-20 11:57:38 PM
technicolor-misfit: How many professsors do you know and recognize on sight? (that you haven't had a class with)

I don't know some of the people in my own department (or give a shiat about them), much less the university. Except people I collaborate with.
 
2009-07-21 12:00:38 AM
technicolor-misfit

You gotta be kidding me... Now it's racist because he didn't get an "I'm a bigshot" foot rub?

Being notable in the world of academe is not the same thing as being famous. Do you really think anyone in Boston would recognize even one quarter of Harvard's faculty? Do you live in a college town? How many professsors do you know and recognize on sight? (that you haven't had a class with)


I wish cops treated 100% of the population on a level playing field but they quite clearly don't. That's all I'm saying. And the fact is in 2009 black people often get the raw deal from cops, where the equivalent white person might get off with just a friendly warning, especially if they are a known personality.

I have seen Gates on PBS, and quoted in news and magazine stories (with accompanying pics of Gates). If lived in his neighborhood I think I'd figure out pretty quickly who he is. I hope the neighbor lady at least apologizes to him.

But it does sound like he was being a jackass, this is one of those situations where nobody was a winner.
 
2009-07-21 12:01:16 AM
*fist bumps gentlemanj*

Not an Oaktown original but been here 10yrs and digging the scene with a gangsta lean On Wood st. in the Lower Bottoms.

I know your blog, I think. A link from Sinclair Klugarsh, maybe? Cool.
 
2009-07-21 12:01:39 AM
Majin_Buu - He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he "exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior."

Anybody in an assumed position of authority who says something like that needs to have their neck broken three times so that the rest of us can continue on in life with .06% less stupid. Sounds ex-farking-actly like the usual mid-to-late-90's authoritarian language-vomit I was raised to shake my fist at.



Don't be a dumbass, it's the language of the law, probably word for word from the criminal code. Cops write that way to explain the arrest and make the charges stick. "This is the law he broke, and this is how he broke it... exactly like it says in the book that defines its illegality."

And it's really easy to avoid... Don't yell at cops. Anybody over the age of five shouldn't have to be told not to yell at someone else, but it's especially stupid when the recipient pf your verbal abuse has the power to arrest you.

I have little sympathy with tantrum-throwers. If you're an adult and haven't learned to express yourself without screaming, I'm all for you getting a little time-out in which to think about more effective communication techniques.
 
2009-07-21 12:02:17 AM
Simply shocking that a man who researches/teaches/makes-a-pretty-penny-on race-related topics would see racism under every stone.

That said, fark the police.

/family of cops
//don't trust them, either
 
2009-07-21 12:03:23 AM
He's been on Colbert report
 
2009-07-21 12:04:17 AM
girl6: Rigban:

You sound fat. And Goth.

You sound malodorous. And fat. Like your mom and your girlfriend.


Ouch!
 
2009-07-21 12:04:20 AM
girl6: So, today I'm waiting to get into garage parking and the guy in front of me sticks his head out his car window and yells, "This is the cardholder entrance. You need a card to get in." I'm thinking he's at the wrong entrance. "You need me to back up?" I yell, even though there's plenty of room for him to back out. I see him heave a sigh. He gets out of his car, walks back to my car and proceeds to explain patiently to me that the daily parking is on the other side and that I need to go there. He's all, "It's $.75 a minute so(shrugs apologetically) you may want to park somewhere else."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pink polo popped collar needle dick Dockers-wearing teabagging fratchoade! I have a card." Just kidding. I thanked him rolled up my window and entered behind him using my card.

Then, while I'm waiting in line to get coffee, a woman comes out of the bathroom and says to me, "You need to put toilet paper in there." Not , "They need to put toilet paper in there."

I'm all, "Fark you, you pinched-faced wrinkled at 30 bleached blond puking up every meal fake ass skank ho!" Just kidding. I said, "I don't work here," as I adjusted the strap on my briefcase. She says, "Oh."

That was just the first hour of the day. Today. I won't even talk about what happens when I get on an elevator. Or walk into a store. Or visit the doctor. Or go to the library. Or walk down the street. And I'm intelligent, clean, mainstream, articulate and good looking. I'm also very obviously a woman. In Oakland, CA. I can't imagine what a black man has to deal with every day at Harvard.

So, yeah. Dr. Gates was probably not in a good mood by the end of the day. He just wanted to get home, order take out, smoke a bowl and chill. But no. He's seriously lucky he didn't get shot.

The cop had no legal reason to remain once he verified identification. But he had to put that uppity colored man in his place and that place is jail--once he realized he couldn't shoot him. In his own home. After he showed ID. Like this was Stalinist Russia or something.


I like those words.

Bay Area solidarity.

Check out the Stern Grove this weekend, by the way. Lyrics Born Review and Lateef the Truth Seeker.
 
2009-07-21 12:09:16 AM
girl6: *fist bumps gentlemanj*

Not an Oaktown original but been here 10yrs and digging the scene with a gangsta lean On Wood st. in the Lower Bottoms.

I know your blog, I think. A link from Sinclair Klugarsh, maybe? Cool.

Wow, and I was at Wood and 7th this afternoon. It's close to where I work.
/DJ for 10 years
//Keep reading my blog--I try to make it intelligent and entertaining.
 
2009-07-21 12:10:43 AM
technicolor-misfit: SwingingJohnson - After they saw his ID they had no business arresting him on his own property without a warrant.


If he was being disorderly, sure they did.

I'm no badge-licker, but I'm glad people get arrested for acting like pricks to cops. (unless the cops start it) You don't get to insult and berate people just because you're irritated. Especially when they're simply doing a job they have to do.



And the issue here was even after he showed his ID he was still being questioned. I'd be farking pissed off too if some cop was acting intimidating and continued questioning me after it was verified that it was my own home.


"Acting intimidating?" Show me that source... I can't even find were Gates' lawyer says that, and Gates isn't saying anything.

Where does it say the cop was belligerent? The only one quoted in the story as being belligerent was Bates. "Why because I'm a black man in America?"

Even if the cop did "continue questioning" him, when you refuse to comply with a reasonable, obvious, and easily satisfiable request, it arouses suspicion. That calls for further questioning.

Have you even read the police report? The police report sounds flat, even-handed, and completely believable... The tone is one of complete "WTF?" He doesn't even make Gates out to be an asshole... It's more like "I don't know why, but dude just kept going off" If he made it up, he needs to be a novelist instead of a cop, because he has an absolute gift.



Yeah, lot's of police have that special gift when writing police reports.

Here, FTA: Ogletree said Gates gave the officer his driver's license and Harvard identification after being asked to prove he was a Harvard professor and lived at the home, but became upset when the officer continued to question him.

"He was shocked to find himself being questioned and shocked that the conversation continued after he showed his identification," Ogletree said.


After the ID was confirmed "Thank you sir, have a nice day" should have been the cop's response. Obviously it's a stressful situation for anyone to be treated like a criminal in their own home.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see him on CNN on Wed. I think Anderson Cooper is interviewing him.
 
2009-07-21 12:13:20 AM
technicolor-misfit: Majin_Buu - He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he "exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior."

Anybody in an assumed position of authority who says something like that needs to have their neck broken three times so that the rest of us can continue on in life with .06% less stupid. Sounds ex-farking-actly like the usual mid-to-late-90's authoritarian language-vomit I was raised to shake my fist at.

Don't be a dumbass, it's the language of the law, probably word for word from the criminal code. Cops write that way to explain the arrest and make the charges stick. "This is the law he broke, and this is how he broke it... exactly like it says in the book that defines its illegality."

And it's really easy to avoid... Don't yell at cops. Anybody over the age of five shouldn't have to be told not to yell at someone else, but it's especially stupid when the recipient pf your verbal abuse has the power to arrest you.

I have little sympathy with tantrum-throwers. If you're an adult and haven't learned to express yourself without screaming, I'm all for you getting a little time-out in which to think about more effective communication techniques.


And that's being a dumbass... how? Since they could have just made in their über-official statement "He was throwing a temper-tantrum".

I mean, o'rlyiously, they could have just said it and tried to sound all "thou shalt not".

'Sides, I'm never a dumbass on Fark. Sryslyz. Only every morning when I wake up and go to work.

And besides that, the cops there probably just arrested him on suspicion of witchcraft because he likely used a word with more than six syllables. Town cops are invariably dumb hicks after all. Prove me wrong on that and maybe I'll start to actually read your language vomit.
 
2009-07-21 12:18:29 AM
technicolor-misfit: Even if the cop did "continue questioning" him, when you refuse to comply with a reasonable, obvious, and easily satisfiable request, it arouses suspicion. That calls for further questioning.

This sounds a tad "badge licker"ish.

Pretty sure you aren't required to open the door. Police can get warrants if they have to.

Pretty sure you arent' required to do anything other than Identify yourself. Which he did.

Maybe he was all "do you know who I am?" but since when did cops get so touchy? Surely they hear worse everday than whatever this effete ivy league snob throws out there.

He ID'd himself. Go Away Copper!!
 
2009-07-21 12:18:41 AM
The real problem was the name GATES in Boston.

Cop must've been a Linux fan.
 
2009-07-21 12:27:30 AM
Also

www.dissapore.com

Soup's on!
 
2009-07-21 12:35:22 AM
girl6: Rigban:

You sound fat. And Goth.

You sound malodorous. And fat. Like your mom and your girlfriend.


You're trying to insult a Farker by stating that he has a girlfriend? Are you new here?
 
2009-07-21 12:35:30 AM
man, the left is retarded.

Just saw some of the left wing blogosphere (gawker, et al) are releasing the name and identity of the chick who called the cops and calling her a racist biatch.

wtf? she was looking after her neighbor's house! (after it had already been broken into it seems). some people totally lose touch with reality when it comes to race.
 
2009-07-21 12:35:59 AM
www.sawf.org

Look at it this way: You're a black guy in Boston. You don't need any help from me to be completely farked.
 
2009-07-21 12:42:56 AM
Egalitarian: You know, I've read a lot of bad cop stories on Fark and a significant number of them contain the "cop gives the miscreant the break and threatens the good guy (story narrator) because the miscreant has connections" line.

Example: Wasn't there a Farker who claimed his daughter's arm was broken in two places like a W after a woman ran her over, and the first cop who showed up knew the woman? The cop declared it was all the girl's fault. He threatened to beat the shiat out of the Farker for not listening attentively while his daughter was being loaded in the ambulance.

Gates is pretty famous and in some towns the white equivalent of a local famous person of import would have been recognized and given a break straight away, right or wrong.

Somehow neither his neighbor nor the cops recognized him in this situation.

Now it was very unwise of him to throw a temper tantrum in front of cops, but to pretend there isn't some racial bias in this is also pretty stupid.


To assume racial bias is pretty stupid too...
 
2009-07-21 12:44:05 AM
Gulper Eel: Between Gates and Sharpton, the two of them trotted out every tired old line this side of "Come and see the violence inherent in the system / help help I'm being repressed!"

Yeah. I'm REAL sure you're up to date on Dr. Gates's scholarship (new window). I'll bet you've got W.E.B. DuBois on speed dial and Manning Marable on your Myspace. I doubt 1 out of a 100 people here have read anything by Gates and most had now clue who he is at all. So quit acting like you're all up-to-date in Africana Studies, mmmkay?
 
2009-07-21 12:45:41 AM
chu2dogg: man, the left is retarded.

Just saw some of the left wing blogosphere (gawker, et al) are releasing the name and identity of the chick who called the cops and calling her a racist biatch.

wtf? she was looking after her neighbor's house! (after it had already been broken into it seems). some people totally lose touch with reality when it comes to race.


It's a tough call. You'd think the neighbor would've recognized Gates, or at least not jumped to the conclusion that a 50-something-year-old man with a cane who shows up in a chauffeured vehicle and tries to get in the house with a key is a burglar, but the neighbor might have only seen the attempt to break the door down, and not Gates' arrival at the house.
 
2009-07-21 12:46:29 AM
NeauxFear: Simply shocking that a man who researches/teaches/makes-a-pretty-penny-on race-related topics would see racism under every stone.

You've never read anything by him. You had no idea who he was at all. Go back to your Xbox.
 
2009-07-21 12:47:11 AM
As a wealthy, self-made Southern-born white male residing in Alabama (is there anything more evil by political correctness standards?), I have to say when I hear stories of racial intolerance in the Mecca of racial and social Utopianism . . .

/ Schadenfreude? No, just a 2-second smirk.
// But I did experience serious schadenfreude with the Rodney King riots. You just can't understand how pissed off white peoople in "fly-over states" get when you get fed this smug, "I'm more anti-racist-than-you-and-live-in-a-Blue-State-thus-I'm-morally-superior-to-you" BS from the left-leaning types on the coasts
/// Beer down
//// How did that Prop 8 thing work out in Cali?
//// Rant over. Out.
 
2009-07-21 12:47:27 AM
mcmnky: Do blacks not think whites people get shiat from the cops and generally tend to avoid every sliver of a second in an interaction with them as well?

We don't. Not like they do. A man with sight can close his eyes.

Doesn't mean he knows what it's like to be blind.


img221.imageshack.us
/got to it before I did
 
2009-07-21 12:51:26 AM
SwingingJohnson: FYI EVERYBODY - THE GUY WILL BE ON CNN WED NIGHT DISCUSSING THIS.

And that is the sad part. Here is one of the top Africana Studies scholars and commentators in the world (alongside Cornel West, Toni Morrison, Michael Eric Dyson, Manning Marable, Lewis R. Gordon and a few others) and they don't care to get this guy on until he gets arrested in his own home? No wonder people don't take CNN seriously.
 
2009-07-21 12:52:06 AM
I think he is going to go the way of Cynthia McKinney. A reasonable request, under the circumstances, turned into a race baiting bru-ha-ha.
 
2009-07-21 12:54:16 AM
Primum non nocere: But I did experience serious schadenfreude with the Rodney King riots. You just can't understand how pissed off white peoople in "fly-over states" get when you get fed this smug, "I'm more anti-racist-than-you-and-live-in-a-Blue-State-thus-I'm-morally-superior-to-you" BS from the left-leaning types on the coasts

farm4.static.flickr.com

This Just In: It pisses off black and latino people in the midwest too. Its a regional thing. Not a race thing.
 
2009-07-21 12:55:04 AM
lajimi: The Rev. Al Sharpton is vowing to attend Gates' arraignment.

Oh, OK, now we can rest easy. Everything is going to be alright now.


You know the real reason why some white people (a small minority) wish for the deaths (or worse) of Rev. Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? It's because they are tired of people who will actually keep an eye on them and catch them pulling their racial bullshiat. It would be so much easier for them if they could be assholes and no one said anything.
 
2009-07-21 01:01:59 AM
Somacandra: You've never read anything by him. You had no idea who he was at all. Go back to your Xbox.

I don't have to have read anything by him. Economists try to see the economic side to everything they observe. Doctors try to diagnose every odd rash or cough they encounter. Bankers are always looking for a financial angle. Similarly, an American who lives, breathes, and eats African studies for 10+ hours a day is going to notice race-related issues in many conflicts he encounters, whether or not racism is really to blame.

However, I also live in a small town in the deep South. Furthermore, I have a mix of small-town and big-city cops in my family. Therefore, I never trust cops unless I see video corroborating their story, and even then it better be crystal clear. I've hung two juries because the main evidence was a cop's word.

My take is that the cops were doing the right thing in a totally ignorant way.
 
2009-07-21 01:02:23 AM
Professor broke three rules of Chris Rock's "how not to get your ass kicked by the police"

Use Common Sense
Be polite
Shut the fark up
 
2009-07-21 01:04:48 AM
Some more detail in this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html

According to his lawyer, Professor Gates told the sergeant that he lived there and showed his Massachusetts driver's license and his Harvard identification card, but Sergeant Crowley still did not seem to believe that Professor Gates lived in the home, a few blocks from Harvard Square. At that point, his lawyer said, Professor Gates grew frustrated and asked for the officer's name and badge number.

Then it went real bad from there.
 
2009-07-21 01:09:24 AM
Somacandra This Just In: It pisses off black and latino people in the midwest too. Its a regional thing. Not a race thing.

Touché
 
2009-07-21 01:19:00 AM
Tried to read all the posts and it seems that no one is blaming the nosy biatch neighbor that phoned this in.
 
2009-07-21 01:23:10 AM
SwingingJohnson - Some more detail in this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html

According to his lawyer, Professor Gates told the sergeant that he lived there and showed his Massachusetts driver's license and his Harvard identification card, but Sergeant Crowley still did not seem to believe that Professor Gates lived in the home, a few blocks from Harvard Square. At that point, his lawyer said, Professor Gates grew frustrated and asked for the officer's name and badge number.

Then it went real bad from there.



This is what bugs the shiat out of me... The cop has a very detailed moment by moment word by word account, and this guy hasn't given one straight "he said... he did..." answer to explain what the cop did that was out of line. That's the mark of a liar who's trying not to get caught in a lie.
 
2009-07-21 01:24:28 AM
AbbeySomeone: Tried to read all the posts and it seems that no one is blaming the nosy biatch neighbor that phoned this in.

It said he went in the back door and turned the alarm off then went and got the driver's help to "unjam" the door. I figured neighbor heard an alarm went to the window and saw two fellas jimmying a door so she played it safe and made the call.
 
2009-07-21 01:29:48 AM
AbbeySomeone: Tried to read all the posts and it seems that no one is blaming the nosy biatch neighbor that phoned this in.

lawandsocietyweek.pbworks.com
 
2009-07-21 01:34:18 AM
AbbeySomeone: Tried to read all the posts and it seems that no one is blaming the nosy biatch neighbor that phoned this in.

All black men must have looked alike to her... even though Gates had lived there for awhile... he had only been a professor there since 1991, not long enough for anyone to have actually SEEN him... or recognize him... even if they lived ON THE SAME BLOCK, possibly even RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER... naw, couldn't be it...
 
2009-07-21 01:41:09 AM
rewind2846: AbbeySomeone: Tried to read all the posts and it seems that no one is blaming the nosy biatch neighbor that phoned this in.

All black men must have looked alike to her... even though Gates had lived there for awhile... he had only been a professor there since 1991, not long enough for anyone to have actually SEEN him... or recognize him... even if they lived ON THE SAME BLOCK, possibly even RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER... naw, couldn't be it...


Jesus Christ, it's a Negro, call the police!
 
2009-07-21 01:44:44 AM
technicolor-misfit:
That's the mark of a liar who's trying not to get caught in a lie.
No, that's the mark of a guy who knows that his every word will be twisted against him.
 
2009-07-21 01:48:35 AM
I think this guy completely ruined his credibility with the, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?"

Talk about stereotyping, there you have it. He's got his mind made up about cops and white people. fark this guy, I hope he loses his job.

He won't of course, because "white folk" have been trained to not make "persons of African American descent" upset--even when they blatantly fark up--for fear of being labeled racist. The "white folk" who employ him will be crucified if they give him his due.
 
2009-07-21 01:50:37 AM
Speedbts alt - technicolor-misfit: Even if the cop did "continue questioning" him, when you refuse to comply with a reasonable, obvious, and easily satisfiable request, it arouses suspicion. That calls for further questioning.

This sounds a tad "badge licker"ish.

Pretty sure you aren't required to open the door. Police can get warrants if they have to.

Pretty sure you arent' required to do anything other than Identify yourself. Which he did.

Maybe he was all "do you know who I am?" but since when did cops get so touchy? Surely they hear worse everday than whatever this effete ivy league snob throws out there.

He ID'd himself. Go Away Copper!!



When you've had a call for a breaking and entering and signs of forced or attempted forced entry, I'm pretty sure a cop has probable cause to make sure nothing's amiss.

And once again... don't start none, won't be none. If he hadn't acted like a prick and been difficult when a cop was doing his duty to protect HIS property, then there probably wouldn't have been any trouble at all.

Put yourself in the cop's shoes... you respond to a call for b&e, when you get there someone's in the house but refuses to identify himself. When he finally does identify himself, it does appear that he's the legal resident... so then why is he making such ado about something as simple as identifying himself?

Locking yourself out's a simple mistake that could happen to anyone, but when you get all bent out of shape about police responding to the call of someone forcing entry into a house, it's such an irrational response it makes you wonder "what IS he so perturbed about"

For all the cop knows, it could be a domestic violence situation and the guy might have just busted into the house and brained his wife with a ball peen hammer.

The behavior was bizarre and inappropriate, and IF the cop did actually linger for a bit after the ID, (which is not indicated by his report) I'd say it's perfectly reasonable given the unreasonable and irrational conduct of the professor.

I get called a cop-hater on this site constantly... I'm no fan of overreaching cops and I biatch about them constantly, but when you automatically assume all of them are overreaching in every case, when there's absolutely NO reliable indication that that it's true, then you simply make your own judgment suspect and your other more legitimate criticisms lose weight.

The "Why, because I'm black in America?" and the refusal to identify himself do not appear to be in dispute... That's the guy's response to a reasonable request from a police officer investigating a reasonable call. That's not just being a prick, that's kind of crazy.

The guy establishes himself as a nut right from the get-go. It's absolutely beyond me why people are investing so much faith in his lawyer's vague and mysterious empty accusations... attempting to say something without actually saying anything they can be nailed down to. If the cop actually did something, they'd be saying what it was.

This is a guy who acted like a nut and owing to his own ego, painted himself in a corner. He thought he could have his hissy fit and being a Harvard Prof would get him out of it. When it didn't, he played the race card in order to shift blame and try to save himself the embarrassment of having all his friends and colleagues reading about what a nut he was. I'd bet my last dollar that's EXACTLY what it is.
 
2009-07-21 01:54:40 AM
Dobbler - technicolor-misfit:
That's the mark of a liar who's trying not to get caught in a lie.


No, that's the mark of a guy who knows that his every word will be twisted against him.



How convenient...


"He did awful things... just awful, awful things."

"Like what?"

"I can't tell you... He'll twist my words around. You'll just have to take word for it that he did them, and they were simply awful."


That's farking stupid. It doesn't even make sense.
 
2009-07-21 02:21:29 AM
AbbeySomeone: he had only been a professor there since 1991, not long enough for anyone to have actually SEEN him... or recognize him... even if they lived ON THE SAME BLOCK, possibly even RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER... naw, couldn't be it

when its dark and you see someone trying to get into a house the first reaction is not to try and figure out who it is, the first reaction is to call the cops and have them try and figure it out.

/had my next door neighbor (my aunt) call the sheriff on me when i was in high school and locked myself out of the house then tried to go in a window.

//the deputy that came out ask to see my drivers license even though i was friends with his son knew who i was and that i lived in the house because it was policy that they had to check IDs on that kind of call for the paperwork.

///same deputy bought beer for us but we had to trade our car keys for it.
 
2009-07-21 02:29:25 AM
technicolor-misfit:


When you've had a call for a breaking and entering and signs of forced or attempted forced entry, I'm pretty sure a cop has probable cause to make sure nothing's amiss.


If he believed that why did he keep knocking and not simply enter?



And once again... don't start none, won't be none. If he hadn't acted like a prick and been difficult when a cop was doing his duty to protect HIS property, then there probably wouldn't have been any trouble at all.


Once again why do cops get to be so touchy?


Put yourself in the cop's shoes... you respond to a call for b&e, when you get there someone's in the house but refuses to identify himself. When he finally does identify himself, it does appear that he's the legal resident... so then why is he making such ado about something as simple as identifying himself?

Locking yourself out's a simple mistake that could happen to anyone, but when you get all bent out of shape about police responding to the call of someone forcing entry into a house, it's such an irrational response it makes you wonder "what IS he so perturbed about"



Never said the cop couldn't tell him STFU. I even believe the prof could have been overreacting.

Don't cops only see people when they are at their worst?

What was so bad about what this guy did that made this cop have to arrest him at his house? You don't think the cop gets worse lip from bums and prostitutes that he probably just shrugs off? I haven't ever played a racism card because I don't believe it necessarily has to be racism. However, I do think the cop here was power tripping. If he was he shouldn't be a cop.

For all the cop knows, it could be a domestic violence situation and the guy might have just busted into the house and brained his wife with a ball peen hammer.


See? Once again slippery slope here. Does the cop just get to assume that someone is hurt because a door was not secured? Does he have the right then to go in every room just to check it out?



The behavior was bizarre and inappropriate, and IF the cop did actually linger for a bit after the ID, (which is not indicated by his report) I'd say it's perfectly reasonable given the unreasonable and irrational conduct of the professor.

I get called a cop-hater on this site constantly... I'm no fan of overreaching cops and I biatch about them constantly, but when you automatically assume all of them are overreaching in every case, when there's absolutely NO reliable indication that that it's true, then you simply make your own judgment suspect and your other more legitimate criticisms lose weight.

That's nice except for the part where the man had a cop come to his house, ask him to identify himself and then arrest him when the guy got mad. Of course you're not accusing me of overreaching either are you?


The "Why, because I'm black in America?" and the refusal to identify himself do not appear to be in dispute... That's the guy's response to a reasonable request from a police officer investigating a reasonable call. That's not just being a prick, that's kind of crazy.

The guy establishes himself as a nut right from the get-go.


Again, right off the bat you are giving this cop the right to escalate because a man who is on the phone talking to his landlord about getting his door repaired seems a bit on edge. Sure, it should prick the cops ears up a little. But being offended isn't a crime. The cop won. This guy had to prove that he lived there. Maybe rightly so.
It's absolutely beyond me why people are investing so much faith in his lawyer's vague and mysterious empty accusations... attempting to say something without actually saying anything they can be nailed down to. If the cop actually did something, they'd be saying what it was.


Not really arguing this point with you but haven't you ever seen those "don't ever talk to a cop" videos? Why would a lawyer who sees potential for legal action make any statement of fact that the other side could then besmirch rightly or wrongly.

This is a guy who acted like a nut and owing to his own ego, painted himself in a corner. He thought he could have his hissy fit and being a Harvard Prof would get him out of it. When it didn't, he played the race card in order to shift blame and try to save himself the embarrassment of having all his friends and colleagues reading about what a nut he was. I'd bet my last dollar that's EXACTLY what it is.


It should never have come to that though. Why can't a cop walk away from a hissy fit? The charge seems like one that shouldn't be a primary charge, it should be one of those "pile it on" charges.

Tell ya what, though I think you are on the wrong side here I will farky you as "gets called cop hater constantly" deal?
 
2009-07-21 02:32:05 AM
technicolor-misfit :

You think that the prosecution never takes defendent's words and uses them improperly? That's the entire basis of the Miranda rights!

I can certainly put myself in the cop's shoes, but a quiet street in Cambridge in the middle of the afternoon isn't the place where I would jump immediately to the thought "this is a dangerous suspect who probably just killed his ex-wife." And you seem to be taking the cop's word as gospel truth. Don't most people when put in a situation like this tend to paint themselves as the reasonable ones and the other guy as the nut? Perhaps the police officer left out some information from his account? Is that not possible?

I just can't believe you'd bet your last dollar on the story of one guy. Why is it so impossible to believe that Gates was upset, perhaps even a bit irrational, but not totally unjustified in his belief that he would have been treated differently had he been a 58 year old white guy in his house in Cambridge?
 
2009-07-21 02:32:29 AM
Well, as a young white male with a shaved head who has been stopped five times for looking like a suspect, detained, asked for identification, and had two police officers order me to the ground with guns pointed at me because they had a report of someone with a shaved head with a gun earlier, I feel really bad. Yeah it pissed me off since I hadn't done anything, but I didn't pull the race card. It's clearly racial profiling because they're looking for someone who has committed a crime and you look like the vague description the witnesses have given them since they're all so reliable. He was seen breaking into a home. Maybe he should've been more friendly to his neighbors and they would've recognized him. It happens.

These things happen, to everyone, of any race.
 
2009-07-21 02:36:26 AM
technicolor-misfit:

Put yourself in the cop's shoes...


Now, why would I put myself in the cop's shoes?

Try putting yourself in the shoes of a man who gets arrested on his own porch for being mad when his neighbours call the cops on him for trying to get his door open! He's a tiny old professor with a damn cane who needed help get his own door open. He also probably had luggage with him if he was coming from the airport.

Since when is yelling at someone an arrestable offense, anyway? I'd like to see the cops try to take on Rahm Emanuel.
 
2009-07-21 02:39:39 AM
SwingingJohnson: Some more detail in this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html

According to his lawyer, Professor Gates told the sergeant that he lived there and showed his Massachusetts driver's license and his Harvard identification card, but Sergeant Crowley still did not seem to believe that Professor Gates lived in the home, a few blocks from Harvard Square. At that point, his lawyer said, Professor Gates grew frustrated and asked for the officer's name and badge number.

Then it went real bad from there.


this is how wbur (boston's npr station) was reporting it- it seems that he beligerance was asking sternly for the officer's badge number...in his own home...after showing his ID...

as someone said before more big dick contest- tinged with a little profiling it seems- though the profiling has a class component as well as race-

a harvard painting professor (white) that is one of my clientele at work was chased down and asked to leave campus because she essentially didn't look like she belonged in the yard (she had her painting cloths on...so she looked like any artist in their painting cloths...a little bohemian) she had to produce id and explain herself... so bad judgment comes in many favors
 
2009-07-21 02:57:36 AM
bobbette - Now, why would I put myself in the cop's shoes?

Try putting yourself in the shoes of a man who gets arrested on his own porch for being mad when his neighbours call the cops on him for trying to get his door open!


Why would anyone be mad because cops responded to a call about a break-in occuring at their house when they are in fact, trying to break into their house?

How the hell is someone who doesn't know you supposed to determine whether or not you belong there?

That's what's nuts... If that would be your reaction, then you're nuts too.

If his house HAD been broken into, and cops didn't respond then it probably would have been "oh sure, they'll ignore crime and refuse to come to the aid of a black man in America!"

This is the stupidest farking argument I've ever seen on this site, and you people are employing some of the most tortured "logic" I've ever seen, all in an attempt to stick your fingers in your ears and avoid acknowledging the painful fact that in this case, the cop was in the right... and the black guy was an asshole.
 
2009-07-21 03:00:10 AM
misfit:
This is what bugs the shiat out of me... The cop has a very detailed moment by moment word by word account, and this guy hasn't given one straight "he said... he did..." answer to explain what the cop did that was out of line. That's the mark of a liar who's trying not to get caught in a lie.

And by the way, Gates has given his account (through his lawyer, as every defendent should) of the event. (www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-statement-arrest-henry-louis-gates-jr)

In Gates' account, he doesn't say that he immediately exclaimed "is this because I'm a black man in America!?" Hmmm... I wonder if Gates' statement perhaps leaves some things out? I wonder if Officer Crowley also leaves some things out?

I'm certainly not assuming that all cops are always overreaching, but Crowley's report seems no more likely than Gates' account. Both are likely only parts of the whole truth.

But I'm pretty sure Gates is not some scam artist itching to get arrested and sue. He's also not some hot head punk kid prone to confrontation. He's a Harvard professor who has a reputation for careful, research and a generally mild manner. That's primarily why I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
 
2009-07-21 03:02:56 AM
girl6: vudukungfu:

You sound fat.
Or hot.
/can't make up my mind.

5'5", 135lbs. I've had to look in the mirror to see my feet since I was 13. My DD's block the view.

/can't make up my mind if I'll be ignoring you at Dragon Con.


you sound SOOOOO hot.

ps- i live in SF.

call me?
 
2009-07-21 03:03:12 AM
I arrived back from Japan this morning so kick yadda yadda....
 
2009-07-21 03:14:09 AM
Speedbts alt - It should never have come to that though. Why can't a cop walk away from a hissy fit? The charge seems like one that shouldn't be a primary charge, it should be one of those "pile it on" charges.

Tell ya what, though I think you are on the wrong side here I will farky you as "gets called cop hater constantly" deal?



In the first place, why... when you acknowledge that Gates was out of line, do you act as if it's the cop's duty to suck it up and walk off with his tail tucked between his legs?

If I came up and called your SO a coont would you walk off? If I followed you down the street and kept calling her a coont and a whore and screaming to everyone around what a coont-whore she was? If you told me three times to stop and walk away?

This wasn't a case of a cop demanding boot-licking subservience... This was someone who was belligerent, uncooperative, and flat-out refusing to comply with perfectly reasonable requests, and who then repeatedly and baselessly insulted, badgered and demeaned the cop even in the face of multiple warnings that he would be arrested if he did not stop his tirade... for no other reason than the cop was performing his duty as he is tasked to do and attempting to protect the man's own property.

And yes, the cop DID try to walk away... and Gates kept screaming to the gathered onlookers "This is what happens to black men in America. You see how they treat black men in America? You see how he's treating me" The cop tried numerous times to ask him to stop screaming and warned him that he'd be forced to arrest him if he didn't, and Gates repeatedly refused.

I'm simply astounded this is even being debated.
 
2009-07-21 03:22:43 AM
Dobbler - But I'm pretty sure Gates is not some scam artist itching to get arrested and sue. He's also not some hot head punk kid prone to confrontation. He's a Harvard professor who has a reputation for careful, research and a generally mild manner. That's primarily why I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think he's either of those things... I think he's a man who was embarrassed and, not being accustomed to being embarrassed, lashed out, and then out of ego, couldn't STOP lashing out and admit he was wrong.

I don't really know any professors, but I work with a lot of doctors, and I've seen this behavior from them. People don't generally tell them they're wrong, and they're accustomed to being deferred to, and one of the things most apt to set them off is when something happens and it's clear they're in the wrong.

When a doctor shows up late to a meeting, he'll bark at you because he can't stand the fact that he owes you an apology.

I believe that's exactly what I think happened here, and I believe he's just painted himself into a corner where he can't fess up and back down without considerable humiliation.
 
2009-07-21 03:30:14 AM
technicolor misfit:
Why would anyone be mad because cops responded to a call about a break-in occuring at their house when they are in fact, trying to break into their house?

Exactly! That's partly why the police report seems false. Gates immediately becomes a crazy person in Crowley's story. (Of course, Gates seems quite reasonable in his own version.) Perhaps Gates was upset not because the police responded to a call, but because Officer Crowley automatically acted like he couldn't believe that Gates lived there and was a professor at Harvard.

When the officer saw a 58 year old guy in glasses with a cane standing in plain view just inside his front door, not running away, why didn't he ask: "Are you ok? Did you notice anyone breaking into this house? We had a report and we just wanted to make sure everyone is ok." He could still ask for ID, but without assuming the worst. Surely this isn't the only time this officer has responded to a non-crime.

I don't think this is tortured logic. It's tortured logic to believe in a police report that claims a normally mild mannered professor with no history of law breaking became an enraged lunatic without provocation.
 
2009-07-21 03:34:59 AM
technicolor-misfit:


In the first place, why... when you acknowledge that Gates was out of line, do you act as if it's the cop's duty to suck it up and walk off with his tail tucked between his legs?



I said the cop could be right to tell him to STFU. Now surely there is some room between "walking off with his tail tucked between his legs" and ARRESTING the man. Do you not see that?

If I came up and called your SO a coont would you walk off? If I followed you down the street and kept calling her a coont and a whore and screaming to everyone around what a coont-whore she was? If you told me three times to stop and walk away?


WTF?


The cop tried numerous times to ask him to stop screaming and warned him that he'd be forced to arrest him


Forced? Forced? No, like I said the whole "this is how you treat a black man" thing is no worse I am sure then he hears on the street. I'm talking about arresting a man who followed your every command. Maybe not as quickly and politely as you would have liked but in the end the cop won. Everyone eats shiat at their work. The more important their job the more they eat. I've had grown men tell me to fark off during negotiations. It's part of the job. If you can't handle it you shouldn't do it for a living.



I'm simply astounded this is even being debated.


Hey I just said your post was "badge licker"ish. You are the one who overreacted with your tome post, you're lucky I don't arrest you.
 
2009-07-21 03:39:49 AM
By the way, technicolor misfit. I enjoy the writing of Vonnegut, Steinbeck and Irving as well.

Another of my favorites is Poe Ballentine. He wrote God Clobbers Us All and The Decline of the Lawrence Welk Empire.
 
2009-07-21 03:45:35 AM
www.extratextual.tv

Is it cos I is black?
 
2009-07-21 03:55:13 AM
girl6: Fon_Win:

You can't be serious?

No, I can't be serious. Except for that time when the plane was about to crash. They were all counting on me. I was surely serious then.

/and don't call me Shirley.


You're getting favorited, and if you ever want to hang out, I'm in San Jose. Well, technically Cupertino, but we all know that's a fake city anyway.
 
2009-07-21 04:42:48 AM
mediablitz: "He was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after police said he 'exhibited loud and tumultuous behavior.' He was released later that day on his own recognizance. An arraignment was scheduled for Aug. 26. Police refused to comment on the arrest."

He wasn't arrested for breaking into his own house.

No shiate. We can all RTFA.

He was arrested for being an ass.

Being an ass on your own property in the privacy of your own home is a God-given right, not a chargeable offense

He wouldn't come out at first, wouldn't show identification, then made it a black thing.

He provided two forms of identification to the cops and then the cops proceeded to continue questioning him, which he objected to because most people that own a home and have two forms of identification don't have to face an interrogation on why they are in their own homes.

Maybe it wasn't a black thing, maybe the guy overreacted, but the point remains, that's his fscking right to be an asshole in his own house. The cops can't just make up their own laws to harass people that they don't like. The cops mistake is far more egregious.

If I see two people trying to bust a door down, I'm going to call the cops too. This guy had a chip on his shoulder as big as the damn door he broke.

Who cares what you'd do? I don't think very many people are objecting to the police investigating a possible break-in (especially by a negro, cause dem folks are always doin' dat kind of stuff). Almost every logical complaint I've seen stems from the fact that the police arrested a man in his own house for getting uppity with them, which I'm sure they wished was a crime, but it isn't.
 
2009-07-21 06:47:32 AM
simkatu : Maybe it wasn't a black thing, maybe the guy overreacted, but the point remains, that's his fscking right to be an asshole in his own house. The cops can't just make up their own laws to harass people that they don't like. The cops mistake is far more egregious.

"Here's my id, here's a copy of a bill."

"Can you step outside?"

"Why?"

"Are you refusing to cooperate?"

"Huh?"
 
2009-07-21 06:56:24 AM
These cops clearly did this guy a favor as he has very little to gripe about these days what with Obama in office. This guy is a relic of another era and while his fight was righteous then in this instance he clearly is grandstanding because it sounds as if he has little left to grandstand about.

This cop is an idiot - should have said "good night" and been the bigger man than a loud mouth Harvard professor. Instead he made this guys year as reward for being an a$$hole.
 
2009-07-21 07:22:14 AM
Showing up at a reported B&E? Not racism. Asking to see identification, as part of investigating said B&E? Not racism. Arresting the homeowner for "disorderly conduct"? Well, consider the history of the "disorderly conduct" charge - mainly used for breaking up peaceful civil rights protests, harassing minorities, and just plain abuse of power. Few people ever arrested solely on this charge were actually doing anything illegal.
 
2009-07-21 07:32:30 AM
The police report:

On Thursday July 16, 2009, Henry Gates, Jr. - -, of Ware Street, Cambridge, MA) was placed under arrest at Ware Street, after being observed exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior, in a public place, directed at a uniformed police officer who was present investigating a report of a crime in progress. These actions on the behalf of Gates served no legitimate purpose and caused citizens passing by this location to stop and take notice while appearing surprised and alarmed.
On the above time and date, I was on uniformed duty in an unmarked police cruiser assigned to the Administration Section, working from 7:00 AM-3:30 PM. At approximately 12:44 PM, I was operating my cruiser on Harvard Street near Ware Street. At that time, I overheard an ECC broadcast for a possible break in progress at Ware Street. Due to my proximity, I responded.

When I arrived at Ware Street I radioed ECC and asked that they have the caller meet me at the front door to this residence. I was told that the caller was already outside. As I was getting this information, I climbed the porch stairs toward the front door. As [reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified {} who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence, held a wireless telephone in her hand arid told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of• Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further.

As I turned and faced the door, I could see an older black male standing in the foyer of {} Ware Street. I made this observation through the glass paned front door. As I stood in plain view of this man, later identified as Gates, I asked if he would step out onto the porch and speak with me. He replied "no I will not". He then demanded to know who I was. I told him that I was "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police" and that I was "investigating a report of a break in progress" at the residence. While I was making this statement, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed "why, because I'm a black man in America?". I then asked Gates if there was anyone else in the residence. While yelling, he told me that it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer. I assured Gates that I was responding to a citizen's call to the Cambridge Police and that the caller was outside as we spoke. Gates seemed to ignore me and picked up a cordless telephone and dialed an unknown telephone number. As he did so, I radioed on channel I that I was off in the residence with someone who appeared to be a resident but very uncooperative. I then overheard Gates asking the person on the other end of his telephone call to "get the chief' and "whats the chiefs name?'. Gates was telling the person on the other end of the call that he was dealing with a racist police officer in his home. Gates then turned to me and told me that I had no idea who I was "messing" with and that I had not heard the last of it. While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me. I asked Gates to provide me with photo identification so that I could verify that he resided at Ware Street and so that I could radio my findings to ECC. Gates initially refused, demanding that I show him identification but then did supply me with a Harvard University identification card. Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of the Harvard University Police.

With the Harvard University identification in hand, I radioed my findings to ECC on channel two and prepared to leave. Gates again asked for my name which I began to provide. Gates began to yell over my spoken words by accusing me of being a racist police officer and leveling threats that he wasn't someone to mess with. At some point during this exchange, I became aware that Off. Carlos Figueroa was standing behind me. When Gates asked a third time for my name, I explained to him that I had provided it at his request two separate times. Gates continued to yell at me. I told Gates that I was leaving his residence and that if he had any other questions regarding the matter, I would speak with him outside of the residence.

As I began walking through the foyer toward the front door, I could hear Gates agai,n demanding my name. I again told Gates that I would speak with him outside. My reason for wanting to leave the residence was that Gates was yelling very loud and the acoustics of the kitchen and foyer were making it difficult for me to transmit pertinent information to ECC or other responding units. His reply was "ya, I'll speak with your mama outside". When I left the residence, I noted that there were several Cambridge and Harvard University police officers assembled on the sidewalk in front of the residence. Additionally, the caller, md at least seven unidentified passers-by were looking in the direction of Gates, who had followed me outside of the residence.

As I descended the stairs to the sidewalk, Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him. Due to the tumultuous manner Gates had exhibited in his residence as well as his continued tumultuous behavior outside the residence, in view of the public, I warned Gates that he was becoming disorderly. Gates ignored my warning and continued to yell, which drew the attention of both the police officers and citizens, who appeared surprised and alarmed by Gates's outburst. For a second time I warned Gates to calm down while I withdrew my department issued handcuffs from their carrying case. Gates again ignored my warning and continued to yell at me. It was at this time that I informed Gates that he was under arrest. I then stepped up the stairs, onto the porch and attempted to place handcuffs on Gates. Gates initially resisted my attempt to handcuff him, yelling that he was "disabled" and would fall without his cane. After the handcuffs were property applied, Gates complained that they were too tight. I ordered Off. Ivey, who was among the responding officers, to handcuff Gates with his arms in front of him for his comfort while I secured a cane for Gates from within the residence. I then asked Gates if he would like an officer to take possession of his house key and secure his front door, which he left wide open. Gates told me that the door was un securable due to a previous break attempt at the residence. Shortly thereafter, a Harvard University maintenance person arrived on scene and appeared familiar with Gates. I asked Gates if he was comfortable with this Harvard University maintenance person securing his residence. He told me that he was.
After a brief consultation with Sgt. Lashley and upon Gates's request, he was transported to 125 6th. Street in a police cruiser (Car 1, Off's Graham and Ivey) where he was booked and processed by Off. J. P. Crowley.
 
2009-07-21 07:42:35 AM
Black people are very racist.
 
2009-07-21 07:45:58 AM
As I turned and faced the door, I could see an older black male standing in the foyer of {} Ware Street. I made this observation through the glass paned front door. As I stood in plain view of this man, later identified as Gates, I asked if he would step out onto the porch and speak with me. He replied "no I will not". He then demanded to know who I was. I told him that I was "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police" and that I was "investigating a report of a break in progress" at the residence. While I was making this statement, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed "why, because I'm a black man in America?". I then asked Gates if there was anyone else in the residence. While yelling, he told me that it was none of my business and accused me of being a racist police officer. I assured Gates that I was responding to a citizen's call to the Cambridge Police and that the caller was outside as we spoke. Gates seemed to ignore me and picked up a cordless telephone and dialed an unknown telephone number. As he did so, I radioed on channel I that I was off in the residence with someone who appeared to be a resident but very uncooperative.

Racial profiling? No, just a douchebag black man with a chip on his shoulder.

Waits for Al Sharpton to get involved then the race riots after the Officer is reasonably found to have done his job properly.
 
2009-07-21 07:46:42 AM
rewind2846: You know the real reason why some white people (a small minority) wish for the deaths (or worse) of Rev. Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? It's because they are tired of people who will actually keep an eye on them and catch them pulling their racial bullshiat. It would be so much easier for them if they could be assholes and no one said anything.

Really? I thought it was because of failing to own up to Tawana Brawley.

"We should be millionaires."
 
2009-07-21 08:02:03 AM
How the fark do you arrest someone for disorderly conduct in his own home?
 
2009-07-21 08:03:34 AM
Herunar: How the fark do you arrest someone for disorderly conduct in his own home?

Wasn't in his home. Learn to read.
 
2009-07-21 08:09:29 AM
Herunar - How the fark do you arrest someone for disorderly conduct in his own home?

He wasn't "in his own home." He was outside pitching a fit and yelling at the onlookers and other cops gathered around saying "This is what happens to black men in America! You see how they treat black men in America?!? You see how he's treating me?!?"
 
2009-07-21 08:22:38 AM
Oh, and again... the cop warned him three times to pipe down and stop creating a disturbance or he was going to have to arrest him, and he kept on going.

People keep saying the cop should have walked away, but when it comes right down to it... They CAN'T let stuff like that go on and on and on and walk away from it. To too many people, that would be perceived as weakness and vulnerability. People would think they could get away with it, and then they'd be stuck dealing with it even more.

A lot of them take that way too far and expect people to grovel and bow and scrape, but it doesn't sound like this guy did. In fact, it sounds like he gave the prof every opportunity to chill out and back it the fark up, but the guy wouldn't do it.
 
2009-07-21 08:26:30 AM
he was arrested for disorderly conduct, not B&E.
misleading tag trumps race-baiting-troll tag
-1, ex post facto
 
2009-07-21 08:29:09 AM
Primum non nocere: As a wealthy, self-made Southern-born white male residing in Alabama (is there anything more evil by political correctness standards?), I have to say when I hear stories of racial intolerance in the Mecca of racial and social Utopianism . . .

/ Schadenfreude? No, just a 2-second smirk.
// But I did experience serious schadenfreude with the Rodney King riots. You just can't understand how pissed off white peoople in "fly-over states" get when you get fed this smug, "I'm more anti-racist-than-you-and-live-in-a-Blue-State-thus-I'm-morally-superior-to-you" BS from the left-leaning types on the coasts
/// Beer down
//// How did that Prop 8 thing work out in Cali?
//// Rant over. Out.


do you need to get to the gym in 26 minutes?
 
2009-07-21 08:38:08 AM
technicolor-misfit: Herunar - How the fark do you arrest someone for disorderly conduct in his own home?

He wasn't "in his own home." He was outside pitching a fit and yelling at the onlookers and other cops gathered around saying "This is what happens to black men in America! You see how they treat black men in America?!? You see how he's treating me?!?"


It must be wonderful to live in a universe where you get to decide each side of an argument yourself, no matter what other people are actually saying to you.

How's that working out there, technicolor-misfit?
 
2009-07-21 09:02:53 AM
Typical snobby Harvard attitude.

I've often had to break into my own/a bf's home and worried a friendly neighbor would call the cops. If you stay calm, it's really just a quick convo of "Oh, actually, I live here. See? Proof of residence."

The guy was an ass to the cops who were just trying to do their jobs. I hope he gets what he deserves.
 
2009-07-21 09:16:00 AM
Is everyone just trolling or does everyone on Fark live in a small town and drive a tractor?
 
2009-07-21 09:37:40 AM
notauniquesnowflake: Typical snobby Harvard attitude.

I've often had to break into my own/a bf's home and worried a friendly neighbor would call the cops. If you stay calm, it's really just a quick convo of "Oh, actually, I live here. See? Proof of residence."

The guy was an ass to the cops who were just trying to do their jobs. I hope he gets what he deserves.


He gave them identification that showed he lived there, and they arrested him anyway.

If the cops were doing their jobs, they would have told him what their names were. Instead, they were obviously trying to hide behind their badges.
 
2009-07-21 09:40:06 AM
He's a professor of African-American studies. Color me surprised.
 
2009-07-21 09:47:09 AM
Gates was having a bad day. Take race out of it and look at the circumstances:

On travel to China, you catch a flu bug.
After a long flight, you finally make it home to find that you can't get in your own house.
You finally get in your house.
You call to biatch at your maintanance department.
Cop shows up investigating a B&E.
You say you live there and that there is no B&E.
He doesn't believe you.
Cop follows you into your house.
You show 2 forms of ID.
Cop still doesn't leave.

Yeah I would be on a short fuse too.
 
2009-07-21 09:47:33 AM
*
Here is what the scene should have looked like after the cop "Broke and Entered". He was NOT invited into the home of the 'now' identified owner!!

i162.photobucket.com

/Authorities have no authority when they are out of their jurisdiction (aka your home!!)
//Especially when there has been NO CRIME COMMITTED
///People you do have rights against things like this
////Yes, originally the cop was doing his job, but needed to leave once ID was produced!!!
 
2009-07-21 09:51:56 AM
What a devious negro. He had time enough to hang up pictures of his family and everything.
 
2009-07-21 10:06:32 AM
chu2dogg is scum. Human refuse. Utterly worthless. The world will be a better place the moment he is dead.
 
2009-07-21 10:11:05 AM
The problem is it's all based on two different accounts. Gates' reaction is understandable considering his previous experience, but I highly doubt he's going to do anything but claim he cooperated even if he did no such thing.

So basically, you have the word of a cop that's used to operating in a neighborhood where the residents have a lot of clout and the word of one of those said residents. If anything, having dealt with "important" people before, I'm more inclined to believe the cop.
 
2009-07-21 10:14:08 AM
technicolor-misfit: Speedbts alt - technicolor-misfit: Even if the cop did "continue questioning" him, when you refuse to comply with a reasonable, obvious, and easily satisfiable request, it arouses suspicion. That calls for further questioning.

This sounds a tad "badge licker"ish.

Pretty sure you aren't required to open the door. Police can get warrants if they have to.

Pretty sure you arent' required to do anything other than Identify yourself. Which he did.

Maybe he was all "do you know who I am?" but since when did cops get so touchy? Surely they hear worse everday than whatever this effete ivy league snob throws out there.

He ID'd himself. Go Away Copper!!


When you've had a call for a breaking and entering and signs of forced or attempted forced entry, I'm pretty sure a cop has probable cause to make sure nothing's amiss.

And once again... don't start none, won't be none. If he hadn't acted like a prick and been difficult when a cop was doing his duty to protect HIS property, then there probably wouldn't have been any trouble at all.

Put yourself in the cop's shoes... you respond to a call for b&e, when you get there someone's in the house but refuses to identify himself. When he finally does identify himself, it does appear that he's the legal resident... so then why is he making such ado about something as simple as identifying himself?

Locking yourself out's a simple mistake that could happen to anyone, but when you get all bent out of shape about police responding to the call of someone forcing entry into a house, it's such an irrational response it makes you wonder "what IS he so perturbed about"

For all the cop knows, it could be a domestic violence situation and the guy might have just busted into the house and brained his wife with a ball peen hammer.

The behavior was bizarre and inappropriate, and IF the cop did actually linger for a bit after the ID, (which is not indicated by his report) I'd say it's perfectly reasonable given the unreasonable and irrational conduct of the professor.

I get called a cop-hater on this site constantly... I'm no fan of overreaching cops and I biatch about them constantly, but when you automatically assume all of them are overreaching in every case, when there's absolutely NO reliable indication that that it's true, then you simply make your own judgment suspect and your other more legitimate criticisms lose weight.

The "Why, because I'm black in America?" and the refusal to identify himself do not appear to be in dispute... That's the guy's response to a reasonable request from a police officer investigating a reasonable call. That's not just being a prick, that's kind of crazy.

The guy establishes himself as a nut right from the get-go. It's absolutely beyond me why people are investing so much faith in his lawyer's vague and mysterious empty accusations... attempting to say something without actually saying anything they can be nailed down to. If the cop actually did something, they'd be saying what it was.

This is a guy who acted like a nut and owing to his own ego, painted himself in a corner. He thought he could have his hissy fit and being a Harvard Prof would get him out of it. When it didn't, he played the race card in order to shift blame and try to save himself the embarrassment of having all his friends and colleagues reading about what a nut he was. I'd bet my last dollar that's EXACTLY what it is.



There is a reason we don't convict people just based on police reports. Police reports are frequently inaccurate.
 
2009-07-21 10:18:32 AM
 
2009-07-21 10:21:00 AM
bobbette:
Nothing justifies arresting a man in his own home because he's pissed that the cops are questioning him for no reason. .


He broke into a house. Yes, it was his house and he identified himself.

Then he went all apeshiat about being hassled because he was black, instead of appreciating that the police were looking out for his property.

He was being a biatch. And the cop provided a biatchslap. If he was white, he would be told by a judge to be thankful that the cops were looking out for his stuff, and to STFU and go home.

But because of the race card, he will prevail and the cops will have to suck his dick, because he is black and screaming racism.
 
2009-07-21 10:22:18 AM
SwingingJohnson: NY DAILY NEWS... not making the professor look too good. (new window)

What are you talking about? Looks like they lightened him up quite a bit.
 
2009-07-21 10:36:47 AM
Don't know about Boston, but in many places, breaking down a door or going through a window is illegal even if you own the place and have paperwork available for the police. It's the act itself since it's confusing to police.

The only legal way to enter a locked property without unlocking it is with police or a *licensed* locksmith.

I'm guessing that's also the law in Boston.

Land of the "free".
 
2009-07-21 10:39:51 AM
Gates' account:

Statement on Behalf of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. -- by Charles Ogletree

This brief statement is being submitted on behalf of my client, friend, and colleague, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr. This is a statement concerning the arrest of Professor Gates. On July 16, 2009, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., 58, the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor of Harvard University, was headed from Logan airport to his home [in] Cambridge after spending a week in China, where he was filming his new PBS documentary entitled "Faces of America." Professor Gates was driven to his home by a driver for a local car company. Professor Gates attempted to enter his front door, but the door was damaged. Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, and again attempted to open the front door. With the help of his driver they were able to force the front door open, and then the driver carried Professor Gates' luggage into his home.


Professor Gates immediately called the Harvard Real Estate office to report the damage to his door and requested that it be repaired immediately. As he was talking to the Harvard Real Estate office on his portable phone in his house, he observed a uniformed officer on his front porch. When Professor Gates opened the door, the officer immediately asked him to step outside. Professor Gates remained inside his home and asked the officer why he was there. The officer indicated that he was responding to a 911 call about a breaking and entering in progress at this address. Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver's license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates' photograph, and the license includes his address.


Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates' request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer's name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates' home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch. Professor Gates asked the officer's colleagues for his name and badge number. As Professor Gates stepped onto his front porch, the officer who had been inside and who had examined his identification, said to him, "Thank you for accommodating my earlier request," and then placed Professor Gates under arrest. He was handcuffed on his own front porch.


Professor Gates was taken to the Cambridge Police Station where he remained for approximately 4 hours before being released that evening. Professor Gates' counsel has been cooperating with the Middlesex District Attorneys Office, and the City of Cambridge, and is hopeful that this matter will be resolved promptly. Professor Gates will not be making any other statements concerning this matter at this time.

Read the police report here.


So, as you can see, Gates did not immediately say "This is because I'm a black man in America!" and Gates asked several times for the officer's name and badge number which the officer did not provide. And when Gates told the officer that he lived there, the officer said "Can you prove that!?"

Gates is a regular guy. He's not a crazy person. He wouldn't fly off the handle unprovoked. Why do people so quickly believe that?
 
2009-07-21 10:45:40 AM
Dobbler:
Gates is a regular guy. He's not a crazy person. He wouldn't fly off the handle unprovoked. Why do people so quickly believe that?


Why do you believe a cop would arrest a man who behaved in such a reasonable manner?
 
2009-07-21 10:50:36 AM
DIGITALgimpus: The only legal way to enter a locked property without unlocking it is with police or a *licensed* locksmith.

What if you enter by using your key to the back door?

"Ogletree said Gates had returned from a trip to China on Thursday with a driver, when he found his front door jammed. He went through the back door into the home - which he leases from Harvard - shut off an alarm and worked with the driver to get the door open."
 
2009-07-21 10:56:53 AM
keypusher: SwingingJohnson: NY DAILY NEWS... not making the professor look too good. (new window)

What are you talking about? Looks like they lightened him up quite a bit.


Talking about the NYDNews repeating several times, in this short article, that Gates was berating the poor wittle police man.
 
2009-07-21 11:01:20 AM
We had a recent event in our predominantly white city and you can decide for yourself what you think...I am still baffled.

A black man is running (jogging) through a closed city park after midnite. The park was closed at 10:00 pm. according to the signs posted at each entrance. Someone felt uneasy seeing the guy in the park after hours. The police were called to the park and made contact with the black man. The black man was asked for his ID by the officers and if he was aware he was in violation of a city code preventing people from using the park after the park was closed. The man did not comply with the officer's request for ID. He told the officers they had no right to be talking to him. He then immediately went to the race card and told the officers they were targeting him because of his race. The officers explained to him that had he been any color at all he still would have been stopped in the park at this hour. Didn't work. The black man continued to yell at the officers until it was determined that, given the hour, and his noise level, an arrest was imminent for disorderly conduct. You can imagine how this went. Oh, then the black man finally identified himself...as a police Lt. from another precinct in the city. The young officers had never met or heard of him before. Awkward...

Who was wrong here? Anybody more wrong that anybody else? Should someone be disciplined here?

Some Cops just trying to do their job while someone else feel exempt from the rules because they are a cop. This, as I understand it from the neighbor who explained the story to me, really caused some internal friction within the department.

Do black people have to take extra precautions when doing stuff that could make them look suspicious? Do all cops have to take special precautions when dealing with minorities when called to investigate situations that would not be deemed awkward if everyone was the same race? Sounds like as long as there are people of different colors, this will go on forever.

Oh, and the neighbor told me the black Lt. got promoted to Commander shortly after the incident. Wonder what happended to the officers? Probably still working the night shift...
 
2009-07-21 11:03:04 AM
Speedbts alt: johnsoninca: Henry Louis Gates Jr. is the nation's pre-eminent black scholar?

This guy begs to differ:

No he doesn't. He may be nation's pre-eminent astrophysicist but Henry Louis Gates Jr. is the nation's pre-eminent black scholar who happens to be black.


www.hiponline.com

Yes, but is he openly black?
 
2009-07-21 11:09:24 AM
loki see loki do: Dobbler:
Gates is a regular guy. He's not a crazy person. He wouldn't fly off the handle unprovoked. Why do people so quickly believe that?

Why do you believe a cop would arrest a man who behaved in such a reasonable manner?


#1 the cop should not have entered the home without permission. Especially not until back-up had arrived.

#2 The cop arrested him because he requested his name & badge number and when the cop refused, things probably got heated.

So the cop broke 2 rules 1st to create the situation.
 
2009-07-21 11:18:32 AM
If only the cop had confirmed his ID, said something like, "Thank you sir, sorry for the inconvenience... was just responding to a 911 call to protect your home...", something like that, Gates would have been appreciated it and ended the day with a new found respect for the local police.

BUT NO! Behaving in a decent, respectful way to a citizen, even after they clear up a misunderstanding, is not something they are trained to do.
 
2009-07-21 11:30:04 AM
Sutpen's Hundred: Lucius T Outlaw Jr. disapproves

That's one badass scholar right there, yo.

/I'm dying to know what the "T" stands for. Terrell? Tyrone? Thaddeus?
 
2009-07-21 11:33:54 AM
SwingingJohnson: If only the cop had confirmed his ID, said something like, "Thank you sir, sorry for the inconvenience... was just responding to a 911 call to protect your home...", something like that, Gates would have been appreciated it and ended the day with a new found respect for the local police.


Absolutely what should have happened.

And I would go so far as to say that even if Gates were ranting and raving about being harrassed by the po-lice, the cop should have eaten crow and GTFO. Pride be damned.

"tumultuous" my ass.

I think this is like a perfect storm of assholes.
 
2009-07-21 11:35:02 AM
headcrack: Sutpen's Hundred: Lucius T Outlaw Jr. disapproves

That's one badass scholar right there, yo.

/I'm dying to know what the "T" stands for. Terrell? Tyrone? Thaddeus?


*
The "T" stands for Teddy-Bear, cause he'd never hurt a MF if he be respected!!! LOL

/ok...ok....ok.... Now I'm trollin'
//gonna GTFBTW
 
2009-07-21 11:38:48 AM
I'm concerned that the concerned neighbor wasn't concerned enough to know what their neighbor looks like, but was concerned enough to call the cops on him; but was again not concerned enough to be there when the cops arrive to explain the situation they caused.

Seriously, if you don't want to get involved, don't get involved - if you do want to get involved, then take resposibility for your actions. Drive-by niceness causes more problems than it solves.
 
2009-07-21 11:48:52 AM
farkin Al Sharpton.
 
2009-07-21 11:57:17 AM
I believe the truth of this lies somewhere between the police report, and Gates' story.
 
2009-07-21 12:14:12 PM
technicolor-misfit: For all the cop knows, it could be a domestic violence situation and the guy might have just busted into the house and brained his wife with a ball peen hammer.

THIS

I didn't even think about that. If they saw ID then they would probably ask a few questions like "Are you married?" or "Is there anyone else in the house?" To me that seems like very reasonable questions to ask.
 
2009-07-21 12:23:53 PM
girl6: I'm also very obviously a woman.

Pics or GTFO
 
2009-07-21 12:34:45 PM
The charges have been dropped.

Part of the official statement:

"The City of Cambridge, the Cambridge Police Department, and Professor Gates acknowledge that the incident of July 16, 2009 was regrettable and unfortunate," the statement said. "This incident should not be viewed as one that demeans the character and reputation of Professor Gates or the character of the Cambridge Police Department. All parties agree that this is a just resolution to an unfortunate set of circumstances."

It sounds to me like they just got together and agreed that Gates was in a pissy mood after a long trip and acted like an ass and the cops responded by acting the same. They probably also agreed that no one wanted Al Sharpton to come to Boston
 
2009-07-21 12:43:07 PM
Phletchengreuber: The charges have been dropped.

Part of the official statement:

"The City of Cambridge, the Cambridge Police Department, and Professor Gates acknowledge that the incident of July 16, 2009 was regrettable and unfortunate," the statement said. "This incident should not be viewed as one that demeans the character and reputation of Professor Gates or the character of the Cambridge Police Department. All parties agree that this is a just resolution to an unfortunate set of circumstances."

It sounds to me like they just got together and agreed that Gates was in a pissy mood after a long trip and acted like an ass and the cops responded by acting the same. They probably also agreed that no one wanted Al Sharpton to come to Boston


☻/
/▌
/ \


T H I S !
 
2009-07-21 12:45:20 PM
I just love it when some professor of a pseudo science like African American Studies or Women's Studies gets so full of themselves.

Where are the Caucasian Studies and Men's Studies Departments?

Or, Irish-American Studies? Or Italian-American Studies for that matter?

/ They are nowhere to be found, as that would be stupid to have such nonsense on a college campus.

/As an actual Harvard graduate with a degree in a real discipline, I'm getting a kick out of this thread and this asshat of a Pseudo-professor.

/ I am hereby appointing myself as a Professor of Irish-American Men's Studies and my fist official act will be to down a pint or two of Guinness!
 
2009-07-21 12:46:35 PM
My only problem is that I can't spell "first"
 
2009-07-21 12:49:36 PM
Orange Guy: Or, Irish-American Studies? Or Italian-American Studies for that matter?

Um, those exist.

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

I guess it's true what they say: A Harvard degree isn't what it used to be.
 
2009-07-21 12:55:32 PM
IH8SPAMMERS: *
Here is what the scene should have looked like after the cop "Broke and Entered". He was NOT invited into the home of the 'now' identified owner!!



/Authorities have no authority when they are out of their jurisdiction (aka your home!!)
//Especially when there has been NO CRIME COMMITTED
///People you do have rights against things like this
////Yes, originally the cop was doing his job, but needed to leave once ID was produced!!!



God, you are stupid. I bet you argue a lot, and of course, it's everyone else who's wrong. Good luck with that!
 
2009-07-21 01:05:43 PM
1. I'd be happy that the police showed up in a timely fashion to protect my family and home.

2. I would NOT be a dick about the fact it was, in fact, my home I had been entering.

3. I would have thanked the officers and bid them a good day.

...and that would have been the end of the story.

Instead we got a guy being a dick, and then evoking a similar dick response from the officers.

...and we end up on FARK.
 
2009-07-21 01:09:51 PM
Obdicut...Stony Brook? NYU??? Queens College??? (those commuter schools are not the greatest examples)

/ Let's guess. You didn't get into Harvard did you?

/ Let's not obfuscate. Do you see White Studies anywhere? Men's Studies? White Men's Studies?

/That's the point.
 
2009-07-21 01:12:09 PM
HighOnCraic: DIGITALgimpus: The only legal way to enter a locked property without unlocking it is with police or a *licensed* locksmith.

What if you enter by using your key to the back door?

"Ogletree said Gates had returned from a trip to China on Thursday with a driver, when he found his front door jammed. He went through the back door into the home - which he leases from Harvard - shut off an alarm and worked with the driver to get the door open."


Yes... he went through the back door (insert joke here)... then proceeded to tinker with the front door. Unless the driver or he was a locksmith... this is quite possibly an illegal act.

Again, in many places you can't do that. Only a locksmith or police (with warrant) can force open a locked door. Doesn't matter if your inside or not. Doesn't matter if you own the place or not.
 
2009-07-21 01:16:54 PM
GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

you should be President!
 
2009-07-21 01:18:49 PM
Orange Guy: / Let's guess. You didn't get into Harvard did you?

My father went there as an undergraduate, long ago. He taught there a few years ago, and came away very disappointed by the grade inflation and what he saw as a departure from rigor. But really, it was just a snark on you, since your argument is incredibly dumb.

Orange Guy: / Let's not obfuscate. Do you see White Studies anywhere? Men's Studies? White Men's Studies?

Yes, let's not obfuscate. You said:

Orange Guy: Where are the Caucasian Studies and Men's Studies Departments?

Or, Irish-American Studies? Or Italian-American Studies for that matter?

/ They are nowhere to be found, as that would be stupid to have such nonsense on a college campus.


I then showed you a number of italian-american and Irish-American studies departments.

You now have moved the goalposts back to "white studies" and "men's studies".

There exist a very few men's studies departments, since the contention is that the majority of studies up until this point have been constrained to men-- through most of Western history, very few women were allowed into academia or to write on any learned subjects at all. There do exist, however, "gender studies" department that include "men's studies".

"White studies" is fulfilled by any European history department, so I'm not sure what you're on about there. Caucasian studies departments exist in large number, but they study the Caucases, a real place, rather than the meaningless group 'Caucasian'. There are, however, studies departments for each ethnic subgroup of European, as well as Europeans in general.

Your statement was incorrect. Your backpedaled, goalpost shifted statement was also incorrect.

You also misuse slashies; this is the worst of your crimes.
 
2009-07-21 01:23:41 PM
Obdicut: "White studies" is fulfilled by any European history department

and by any European literature programs. And European art history programs. Kind of a trend there.
 
2009-07-21 01:39:08 PM
Obdicut: "White studies" is fulfilled by any European history department, so I'm not sure what you're on about there. Caucasian studies departments exist in large number, but they study the Caucases, a real place, rather than the meaningless group 'Caucasian'. There are, however, studies departments for each ethnic subgroup of European, as well as Europeans in general.

It may come as a surprize to you that there are and have been for over a thousand years non-white Europeans, so Eurpoean Studies are not White Studies.

Caucasian is an accepted term for a race. It is not a "meaningless" group. (Congratulations, you have just insulted an entire race...I think that may be a Fark first!).
 
2009-07-21 01:47:31 PM
Orange Guy: It may come as a surprize to you that there are and have been for over a thousand years non-white Europeans, so Eurpoean Studies are not White Studies.

What percentage of Europeans were non-white prior to 1900? Feel free to include the Alhomads and Moors as non-white, though they'd technically, according to US definitions, be white.

European literature and art studies are almost exclusively the study of whites, and almost exclusively the study of men. The number of female writers versus the number of male writers, prior to 1900 and especially prior to 1800, are tiny.



Orange Guy: Caucasian is an accepted term for a race. It is not a "meaningless" group. (Congratulations, you have just insulted an entire race...I think that may be a Fark first!).

Caucasian is an accepted, casual term for white Europeans, bereft of any real scientific or sociological meaning. There is a stronger academic meaning, which is things having to do with the Caucases. So, Caucasian studies are studies of the Caucasian region-- and very interesting there are.

If anything, what you have done is demonstrated that there is less study of Africa than of Europe; all studies of Africa are subsumed in the monicker of "African studies", whereas European studies generally get their own, country-specific or region-specific grouping.

Well done disproving yourself; I've rarely seen it done better.
 
2009-07-21 02:10:39 PM
Were any of you there when this actually happened? Hm....
 
2009-07-21 02:13:11 PM
Obdicut: Obdicut: "White studies" is fulfilled by any European history department

and by any European literature programs. And European art history programs.


Well, if "white studies"="what white people did," we would have to throw in astronomy, mathematics, philosophy, physics, engineering, biology, psychology, economics...but them Asians is coming up fast.
 
2009-07-21 02:21:49 PM
keypusher: Well, if "white studies"="what white people did," we would have to throw in astronomy, mathematics, philosophy, physics, engineering, biology, psychology, economics...but them Asians is coming up fast.

Not really, no. India figures hugely in the development of mathematics, as does the middle east-- which can count as white, but not European. China's engineering was also superior to Europe's in many ways right until Ghengis Khan's empire spread the tech throughout Europe/Asia. Muslim architecture was also superior for some tasks-- they had better arches, for one thing.

In addition, Egypt pioneered many agriculture techniques used and propogated by the Romans.
 
2009-07-21 02:46:45 PM
Orange Guy: Your generalizations are incorrect, though. For example, people of the Indian subcontinent are Caucasians. Race is bone structure and DNA grouping, not skin color. Caucasians are not exclusively "white".... and "white" people are not universally caucasians.

Actually, only northern indians are 'caucasian', Dravidians are not.

what I said was that caucasian is used loosely to mean white europeans. It has fallen out of use by ethnographers since it's innacurate.

To reiterate:

Your claim was that there were no 'white studies' or 'Italian-American studies' or 'mens studies' at universities.

I demonstrated that there are studies of European history and literature that almost exclusively studies of whites, and almost exclusively studies of males. I pointed out several actual Italian-American and Irish-American programs, making that statement of yours simply absolutely wrong. I've pointed out that there are plenty of 'gender studies' departments that includes 'mens studies'.

I have on interest in the terms 'white', 'Caucasian', or the rest that you're using. They're not meaningful terms, except in reference to their own grammar. You're the one using them as though they're meaningful. They are not genetically, culturally, historically, or ethnographically meaningful.
 
2009-07-21 03:50:20 PM
Orange Guy:

/ What would you call an albino African-American?



Whatever the answer, I'm sure she'd find it offensive and demand to be called something else.

/ kinda likes albinegro. Or albinojob.
 
2009-07-21 03:52:54 PM
Obdicut: Actually, only northern indians are 'caucasian', Dravidians are not.

Where do you get this drivel??? From those commuter colleges you cited? They most certainly are Caucasians. They may have culturally rejected it, but they are racially Caucasians. The northern Indians are more Aryan and the Dravidians are not, but they are both Caucasian.

"The idea of Aryan and Dravidian races is the product of an unscientific, culturally biased form of thinking that saw race in terms of color. There are scientifically speaking, no such things as Aryan or Dravidian races. The three primary races are Caucasian, the Mangolian and the Negroid. Both the Aryans and Dravidians are related branches of the Caucasian race generally placed in the same Mediterranean sub-branch. The difference between the so-called Aryans of the north and Dravidians of the south is not a racial division. Biologically bo th the north and south Indians are of the same Caucasian race, only when closer to the equator the skin becomes darker, and under the influence of constant heat the bodily frame tends to become a little smaller. While we can speak of some racial differences between north and south Indian people, they are only secondary." (source:Link (new window)

As I have had an office in Bangalore for the past decade, I know what I am talking about, but you obviously do not.

I grow weary of deflecting and correcting your lack of knowledge in this regard.

Good day
 
2009-07-21 03:56:38 PM
Orange Guy: Obdicut...Stony Brook? NYU??? Queens College??? (those commuter schools are not the greatest examples)

/ Let's guess. You didn't get into Harvard did you?

/ Let's not obfuscate. Do you see White Studies anywhere? Men's Studies? White Men's Studies?

/That's the point.


You sound oppressed.
 
2009-07-21 03:59:02 PM
Orange Guy: Where do you get this drivel??? From those commuter colleges you cited? They most certainly are Caucasians. They may have culturally rejected it, but they are racially Caucasians. The northern Indians are more Aryan and the Dravidians are not, but they are both Caucasian.

Caucasian does not actually mean anything substantial. So sure, they are. Or they're not. Depending on which stupid definition of Caucasian you use.

By your idiotic definition, it's all cool, since there's no deparment of 'negroid' studies or 'mangolian' studies, either. So you've got nothing to complain about.

Orange Guy: I grow weary of deflecting and correcting your lack of knowledge in this regard.

Seeya, guy-who-was-wrong-about-what-he-said.

Caucasian is not a meaningful term.

There are plenty of departments that study 'white' history, literature, art, and culture, including subgroups like Italian-American and Irish-American, which is contrary to your assertion.

You're kind of a rube.
 
2009-07-21 03:59:43 PM
h4b1t: GaryPDX: This guy refused to identify himself and went off on a racist rage. Fark him.

you should be President!


Please tell me you are sterile.
 
2009-07-21 05:29:50 PM
I once shook Dr. Gates's hand. I didn't know who he was at the time, but he seemed important and had an entourage.


/As a Saami, I'm a member of a far smaller minority that has suffered far worse at the hands of enlightened white people than any living black American ever did. Sympathy Factor 2.
 
2009-07-21 05:50:15 PM
Obdicut: keypusher: Well, if "white studies"="what white people did," we would have to throw in astronomy, mathematics, philosophy, physics, engineering, biology, psychology, economics...but them Asians is coming up fast.

Not really, no. India figures hugely in the development of mathematics, as does the middle east-- which can count as white, but not European. China's engineering was also superior to Europe's in many ways right until Ghengis Khan's empire spread the tech throughout Europe/Asia. Muslim architecture was also superior for some tasks-- they had better arches, for one thing.

In addition, Egypt pioneered many agriculture techniques used and propogated by the Romans.


Yes, really, yes. The Arabs helped make sure some of the Greek discoveries didn't get lost. The Hindus gave us zero, which of course is quite a lot. The Chinese did well for a while...note though, that your list contains nothing more recent than 1400 AD, which is to say absolutely nothing that has to do with science properly understood. Egypt aside, the Africans gave us?
 
2009-07-21 05:57:41 PM
keypusher: Obdicut: keypusher: Well, if "white studies"="what white people did," we would have to throw in astronomy, mathematics, philosophy, physics, engineering, biology, psychology, economics...but them Asians is coming up fast.

Not really, no. India figures hugely in the development of mathematics, as does the middle east-- which can count as white, but not European. China's engineering was also superior to Europe's in many ways right until Ghengis Khan's empire spread the tech throughout Europe/Asia. Muslim architecture was also superior for some tasks-- they had better arches, for one thing.

In addition, Egypt pioneered many agriculture techniques used and propogated by the Romans.

Yes, really, yes. The Arabs helped make sure some of the Greek discoveries didn't get lost. The Hindus gave us zero, which of course is quite a lot. The Chinese did well for a while...note though, that your list contains nothing more recent than 1400 AD, which is to say absolutely nothing that has to do with science properly understood. Egypt aside, the Africans gave us?


Pestilence and savagery.
 
2009-07-21 06:15:00 PM
keypusher: The Arabs helped make sure some of the Greek discoveries didn't get lost.

They did far more than that. Far, far more. Not just in mathematics, but in philosophy, medicine, governmental affairs; if you think all they did was preserve, you've been sadly misinformed.

keypusher: The Chinese did well for a while...note though, that your list contains nothing more recent than 1400 AD, which is to say absolutely nothing that has to do with science properly understood.

The Indians have continued to be a math powerhouse, actually.

You also seem to be under the impression that only modern science 'counts'. Since all modern science is built on the explorations that occurred in the past, that's a very, very weak argument.

keypusher: Egypt aside, the Africans gave us?

About as much as the polynesians or the australian aborigine's did. That doesn't mean that African culture or literature isn't worth studying, just that the history of science of Africa is mainly worth studying from a 'why not' perspective.

It also does not in the least bit matter what culture a mathematical formula came from; math is independent of origin. The information that a white person discovered this or an Arab mathematician discovered that is of historical interest, but not of interest to a study of the actual discovery itself.

Studying literature and culture of Europe is analogous to studying literature and culture of Africa. We study both; if there is a disparity, it's in favor of studying Europe.

What we really need to study more is Ghengis Khan.
 
2009-07-21 06:17:50 PM
Any further calls for assistance to this asshat should be transferred to the NAACP so they can dispatch their special police squad.

/or the calls should just go unanswered
 
2009-07-21 06:35:43 PM
Obdicut:
Seeya, guy-who-was-wrong-about-what-he-said.

Actually, I've proved myself correct.

Caucasian is not a meaningful term.

What??? Out of what orifice did you pull that?

There are plenty of departments that study 'white' history, literature, art, and culture, including subgroups like Italian-American and Irish-American, which is contrary to your assertion.

Nobody studies White history, per se, but they do study Black History per se.

You're kind of a rube.

Yeah, sure I'm a rube, 3 degrees, terminal degree from Harvard. On what wall do you put your Ding Dong School diploma?
 
2009-07-21 06:35:58 PM
Tired of press reports which (apparently) willfully mischaracterize policing problems in this country into something which only applies to AA. All of us, of any color, have continually been overpoliced since the Patriot Act and it's unlikely to let up any time soon. If we limit the conversation to how blacks are being policed, we miss the main point that policing needs an upgrade.
 
2009-07-21 07:18:10 PM
Magorn: what_now: Magorn: kicking in a front door in full gothic regalia, war paint, and several realistic weapons hanging off of me- and more than slightly tipsy

Explain.

Well, this will come as a shock to you,I know, but alcohol was involved, both in the planning, execution and after-action stages of this story.

IIRC me and two of my extraordinarily creative friends where discussing what to do the following weekend while polishing off a rather excellent bottle of whiskey, when one of them noted the proximity to Easter and suggested we have an old-fashioned Easter Egg hunt. Then the other of em, in his best Hemingway impression pipes up "extraordinarily vicious creatures, Easter eggs, you let one turn on you and you're a goner."

and in a fit of divine madness, the Royal Hunt of the Eggs was declared and planned, and by the weekend we had a few dozen people in their best Mad Max inspired wardrobe, festooned with wooden and metal swords, and every manner of Nerf assault weapon known to man, and several gallons of Cth'ulu punch (it's a little known science fact but Gummy worms exposed to potent alcohol expand to about ten times their original size and look extremely tentacle like) a few hundred hidden Easter Eggs in a nerby public park and a man in a pith Helmet and the full regimental regalia of the Kings Own Lancers.

When the Easter Eggs failed to live up to their reputation as deadly and vicious prey (unless you got a bit of shell in yer eye) we of Course were forced to turn on one another and a mighty battle royal ensued fuels by much partaking of the vile green Spirits.

Thus when we returned to our hosts house, and door failed to open, it seemed perfectly logical that we should break it down. Being myself a rather huge lump pf a man I bold strode forward and said, "If there's a door to be kicked in, I'm just the man to do it" and by god I did, even if it took me about three kicks to do it properly (the Goddamn thing wouldn't stay still and fight like a man)

It was on the third and triumphal kick that our boisterous cheers were cut short by a large disembodied flashlight shouting "FREEZE MPD"! and I found myself wishing I'd worn brown trousers that day


You win 4 internets.
 
2009-07-21 07:19:44 PM
Notice who's e-mail address has been disabled:

http://harvardmagazine.com/contact/staff (new window)

/Lucia Whalen is the pushy broad who dropped the dime on Gates and his driver.
 
2009-07-21 07:29:07 PM
Obdicut: keypusher: The Arabs helped make sure some of the Greek discoveries didn't get lost.

They did far more than that. Far, far more. Not just in mathematics, but in philosophy, medicine, governmental affairs; if you think all they did was preserve, you've been sadly misinformed.


Philosophy: they translated Aristotle
Medicine: they translated Galen
governmental affairs: fratricide?

keypusher: The Chinese did well for a while...note though, that your list contains nothing more recent than 1400 AD, which is to say absolutely nothing that has to do with science properly understood.

The Indians have continued to be a math powerhouse, actually.


No, they became a math powerhouse, after an interregnum of well over a milennium, under British tutelage.

You also seem to be under the impression that only modern science 'counts'. Since all modern science is built on the explorations that occurred in the past, that's a very, very weak argument.

A weak argument? What am I arguing? Only science does count, of course, in the sense we've learned much more in the last 500 years than in the 2 million or so before that.

Studying literature and culture of Europe is analogous to studying literature and culture of Africa. We study both; if there is a disparity, it's in favor of studying Europe.

There is a colossal disparity in favor of Europe. There is a colossal disparity in things to study.
 
2009-07-21 07:56:21 PM
Orange Guy: Yeah, sure I'm a rube, 3 degrees, terminal degree from Harvard. On what wall do you put your Ding Dong School diploma?

Only rubes whip out their diplomas on the internet and feel that they've made any sort of point.

keypusher: Philosophy: they translated Aristotle
Medicine: they translated Galen
governmental affairs: fratricide?


I'm sorry, but I'm going to leave it up to you to correct your own ignorance.

There's plenty of books on the subject.

keypusher: There is a colossal disparity in favor of Europe. There is a colossal disparity in things to study.

If what you're interested in is in the development of modern science, then yes, inarguably. If you're interested in literature, then no. If you're interested in governmental systems, then no.

I suggest you read The Secret History of the Mongols for a good primer on where to start reading other things. A simple investigation into what technologies Marco Polo and his family returned to Europe with would be a good thing, as well.

keypusher: No, they became a math powerhouse, after an interregnum of well over a milennium, under British tutelage.

They independently developed calculus in the 12th century, though they didn't combine it into a unified system. The classical period of Indian mathematics ended in 1200, which, you'll notice, is not well over a millennium ago.

When castigating lack of intellectual achievement on the part of an entire culture, it might behoove you to be somewhat accurate in your chastisement, lest you look foolish.
 
2009-07-21 10:08:15 PM
IH8SPAMMERS:
Here is what the scene should have looked like after the cop
"Broke and Entered". He was NOT invited into the home of
the 'now' identified owner!!


While here's what the scene should have looked like, a second
after the cops asked Gates for his ID and instead of immediately
providing it and calmly explaining what the situation was, he
refused and went off on a racist rant;

i51.photobucket.com
 
2009-07-21 10:15:48 PM
Are you people here really saying that, if the cops came over in this situation and started questioning you on whether you lived there, you wouldn't get really pissed off at them? Really?
 
2009-07-21 10:26:41 PM
technicolor-misfit: Bates and his lawyer have tight-lipped intimations..

Who T.F. is Bates?
 
2009-07-21 10:36:24 PM
DIGITALgimpus: Only a locksmith or police (with warrant) can force open a locked door. Doesn't matter if your inside or not. Doesn't matter if you own the place or not.

I love the way cops make up laws that don't really exist and enforce them. Give us a citation, Officer.
 
2009-07-21 10:46:40 PM
tarkus1980: Are you people here really saying that, if the cops came over in this situation and started questioning you on whether you lived there, you wouldn't get really pissed off at them? Really?

As in most conversations, delivery is everything. If they did as you said, but everything was polite and just-doing-my-job-sir, I would have no problem with the officer faithfully discharging his duty of protecting my home from burglars.

If the cop treated me like a criminal from the get-go and was an asshole about the whole thing...then yeah, I'd have a problem. I should note that either situation is entirely likely, depending on the cop in question, whether he got laid last night, whether his kid just wrecked his truck, whether he just got passed over for promotion...etc.

Which is not to say that Gates was right in his handling of this encounter, either -- just that the cops escalated the situation unnecessarily. Color me surprised.

The right way to handle a gruff cop is to STFU, use sir/ma'am/officer/trooper/etc, and to handle any non-life-threatening problems with that cop LATER. With a calm head, and while dressed up slightly, make an appointment to see their sergeant/supe, and voice any complaints in an orderly manner. If that doesn't work, lawyer up, lather, rinse, repeat. Most cops respect order, and see it as the remedy to most problems they encounter. Right or wrong, you're never going to win by creating (perceived) chaos with the cop on the side of the road, so to speak.

Protip: If the cop's an asshole, it is vital to call them by the right title. If they wear enlisted rank (think sergeant stripes, like most beat cops), call them officer, deputy, or trooper, depending on the agency. If they wear military-officer rank (think bars, leaves, or stars), call them sir/ma'am. Good cops won't care as long as you're being polite, but it is vital to get the greeting right if the cop in question is being a dick.
 
2009-07-22 12:16:48 AM
I do think sleep-deprevation is to blame here. Gates had just gotten back from China, For his body it was 3 in the morning.

Another Protip:

Whenever suffering from jetlag, tell the people you encounter about it, they'll be glad you let them know.
 
2009-07-22 11:40:10 AM
Obdicut:
keypusher: Philosophy: they translated Aristotle
Medicine: they translated Galen
governmental affairs: fratricide?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to leave it up to you to correct your own ignorance.


You have nothing, huh?

keypusher: There is a colossal disparity in favor of Europe. There is a colossal disparity in things to study.

If what you're interested in is in the development of modern science, then yes, inarguably. If you're interested in literature, then no.


This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on Fark. We are talking about European and African literature.

I suggest you read The Secret History of the Mongols for a good primer on where to start reading other things. A simple investigation into what technologies Marco Polo and his family returned to Europe with would be a good thing, as well.

Pop psuedo-history is supposed to set me straight? No thanks. No one knows what Marco Polo brought back from China, if anything. The notion that he brought the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution back in his saddlebags is typical cargo-cult thinking. Incidentally, lots of people think he never made it to China at all, his account being at such great variance with the facts.

keypusher: No, they became a math powerhouse, after an interregnum of well over a milennium, under British tutelage.

They independently developed calculus in the 12th century, though they didn't combine it into a unified system. The classical period of Indian mathematics ended in 1200, which, you'll notice, is not well over a millennium ago.


800 years! Well, consider me chastened.

Your view of history is a slave to your ideology. That will prevent you from learning, I am afraid.
 
2009-07-22 12:55:38 PM
NeauxFear: tarkus1980: Are you people here really saying that, if the cops came over in this situation and started questioning you on whether you lived there, you wouldn't get really pissed off at them? Really?

As in most conversations, delivery is everything. If they did as you said, but everything was polite and just-doing-my-job-sir, I would have no problem with the officer faithfully discharging his duty of protecting my home from burglars.

If the cop treated me like a criminal from the get-go and was an asshole about the whole thing...then yeah, I'd have a problem. I should note that either situation is entirely likely, depending on the cop in question, whether he got laid last night, whether his kid just wrecked his truck, whether he just got passed over for promotion...etc.

Which is not to say that Gates was right in his handling of this encounter, either -- just that the cops escalated the situation unnecessarily. Color me surprised.

The right way to handle a gruff cop is to STFU, use sir/ma'am/officer/trooper/etc, and to handle any non-life-threatening problems with that cop LATER. With a calm head, and while dressed up slightly, make an appointment to see their sergeant/supe, and voice any complaints in an orderly manner. If that doesn't work, lawyer up, lather, rinse, repeat. Most cops respect order, and see it as the remedy to most problems they encounter. Right or wrong, you're never going to win by creating (perceived) chaos with the cop on the side of the road, so to speak.

Protip: If the cop's an asshole, it is vital to call them by the right title. If they wear enlisted rank (think sergeant stripes, like most beat cops), call them officer, deputy, or trooper, depending on the agency. If they wear military-officer rank (think bars, leaves, or stars), call them sir/ma'am. Good cops won't care as long as you're being polite, but it is vital to get the greeting right if the cop in question is being a dick.


Which is akin to say that if I dial 911 and hang-up and a cop comes to my door because that's the procedure, I better not act all uppity or I may get a justly deserved beat down for my trouble.
 
2009-07-22 01:11:45 PM
There are several serious problems in America that this story brings up, and I think it's outrageously irresponsible for the media whenever solely discuss "the ongoing dialogue about racial profiling" (AKA "everyone knows black people are all criminals") with regard to this case. In particular, this case casts an unflattering light on the American:

Society:

Why didn't the old white lady who called the cops even recognize her own neighbor? You know, the world-renowned scholar and academic? If I were the cop, I would have asked Gates if he'd help me: we'd walk up and down the street and I'd loudly proclaim "this is Dr. Henry Gates. Yes, he's black, but he lives here. He is your neighbor. If you see him entering his house, it's only because he farking lives there. He is not a burglar and you are all racists! What happened to the boy who cried 'wolf?'" Americans don't know their own next-door neighbors anymore because we're so afraid of each other.

Police Behavior:

I'm not sure what the laws are in Boston and Massachusetts, but I think that there must be at least probable cause to demand that a person display their ID. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. probably knew that he didn't have to show any goddamned ID. Which he did anyway. But Barney Fife still wanted to arrest him, so he made some bullshiat up. The bullying and brutality of police nationwide seems to have jumped off the charts recently. This should worry people: you can be arrested for burglary (or some other bullshiat charges) for entering your own home. I've even read of cops murdering a man whose friends took away his keys to keep him from driving home drunk after he broke into his own home and some retard neighbor immediately, without thinking, called the police, who then kicked down the door, ran to the bedroom, and shot the sleeping man. The police murdered a sleeping man. And yes, of course they got clean away with it.

Justice System:

This travesty should be thrown out of court and they should be begging Gates not to sue. There should be a few voluntary resignations, but in today's shameless society, whatever the cops can get away with - pretty much anything - is okay. So nobody is going to be honest enough to say "I screwed up. I'm a lousy cop. I shouldn't have a gun or a badge." Judges and police need strict criminal and civil oversight. Get rid of these unconstitutional "immunity" powers. The cop who did this should actually be arrested and prosecuted himself. But he won't be. That is why most Americans who have considered it understand that our courts are completely useless.
 
2009-07-22 02:21:45 PM
keypusher: Pop psuedo-history is supposed to set me straight? No thanks. No one knows what Marco Polo brought back from China, if anything. The notion that he brought the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution back in his saddlebags is typical cargo-cult thinking. Incidentally, lots of people think he never made it to China at all, his account being at such great variance with the facts.

I'd like to note that's a complete misuse of the excellent concept 'cargo cult'.

Al-Khwarizmi and Omar Khayyam think you're an ignoramus.
 
2009-07-22 04:58:49 PM
MikeRaphon: Which is akin to say that if I dial 911 and hang-up and a cop comes to my door because that's the procedure, I better not act all uppity or I may get a justly deserved beat down for my trouble.

FTFY, and more to the point. As in most aspects of life, there's a time and a place. Both the cop and Gates were at fault for being assholes. The difference is that, for right or wrong, one of those parties has a gun and arrest powers.
 
2009-07-23 04:13:47 PM
Help, help, I'm being oppressed!

coloradoright.files.wordpress.com
 
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