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703 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2001 at 1:05 AM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-09-12 01:10:30 AM
It's kind of...interesting feeling to see people band together about this.

And to get banned from #fark by a subjective idea of just who's grieving or methods of grieving is more important.
 
2001-09-12 01:11:24 AM
Oh, and I meant the German leader, the British Prime Minister, and the Russian leader...all standing shoulder to shoulder with america, in their words.
 
2001-09-12 01:13:02 AM
what the fark are you talking about?
 
2001-09-12 01:16:06 AM
I'm talking about, A: Watching all the leaders of other countries talking about standing with America on this atrocity.

And B: Being banned from #fark on Mirc for I don't know what reason, when I was enjoying the conversation and keeping up with the news. Like some people deserve it more than others, or have more right to it than others.
 
2001-09-12 01:19:44 AM
It was pretty touching to hear the French, Germans, British and the Russians support the US.
 
2001-09-12 01:19:46 AM
There wasn't a ban but a "timeout" for those who couldn't discuss properly
 
2001-09-12 01:20:01 AM
Jeffalton...

However much I disagree with your viewpoints, I feel it's important you express them. You can't do that in some parts of the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, Sudan, etc. Fark on, USA.
 
2001-09-12 01:23:12 AM
I see, you got yourself kicked off the discussion on #fark.
Hmmmm...shiat happens.
 
2001-09-12 01:23:36 AM
Did any one realize that yesterday's date was 911 ?? That wierd post was titled 911
 
2001-09-12 01:26:41 AM
Tell you what, Jeffalton... Why don't you go over there and tell the folks celebrating in the West Bank that you sympathize with them and you feel their pain. Extend the olive branch. See if they invite you in for tea...
 
2001-09-12 01:29:04 AM
The scary things about the video of the first plane (see the news discussion):
A) The firemen glance up, then ignore it as if nothing is happening
B) There's a good chance the firemen pictured are no longer with us.
 
2001-09-12 01:36:42 AM
No, I got flat out banned. I waited to get voice again, and my connection reset. When I tried to come back in, it said I was banned.
 
2001-09-12 01:39:06 AM
From Nando times

"By the calculation of Block, the Stanford physicist, the energy packed by one fully-fueled Boeing 767 jet is 40 times as great as the biggest non-atomic bomb ever dropped by the United States."
 
2001-09-12 01:43:11 AM
I'm praying tonight for all of us, that we can find the strength to make our world better with love and wisdom, rather than anger and hate.
 
2001-09-12 01:44:07 AM
I am not ready to say what we should do, or who we do it to, but it should be major--and cool headed, measured, just response be damned. Not for vengance, but deterence. Deterence in the context of a bar fight is not a Marquis of Queensbury attitude--act like a mad man with a hand grenade and you WILL be left alone. When someone with violent tendencies is unalterably convinced that he has good reason to hate you, your only choice is to make his fear greater than his hate.

If I believe someone can and will kill me, my family and everyone who thinks like me, I will leave him alone. If one of my associates plans to attack this person, I will make very sure he does not. There must be some sane people who know who and where the terrorists are. Get their attention.

I am not without feeling. I am very sorry for the innocents that will die as I am for the ones that have already. But the ordinary citizen of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany were just as innocent. Their crime, just as the innocents of today was to allow their leaders to lead them into some very bad decisions. We, (you and I), and everyone on Earth are responsible for our respective leader's actions. We in the US allowed our leaders to appear humane and reasoned, (aka soft and indecisive). The terrorists believed that American's humane attitude was unbounded. Likely to be costly for both sides.

Americans, probably as a result of soft living, have come to an impractical belief that human life is sacred. Get real, anything that there is that much of is not precious. My life is precious to me, yours to you, and theirs to them. But only a small minority of the world thinks your life is precious to them. Terrorists take an unbelievable risk when their actions cause the citizens of the US to set lower values on life. Do they not understand that our liberal tendencies are all that protects them?

You non-Americans--Does any one of you seriously believe there is another country on the miserable planet that, if given the power of the US, would exercise restraint in a similar situation?
 
2001-09-12 01:46:35 AM
The thing I find kind of amazing is how when the second plane hit the second tower, it looked like it went around it and didn't it it. Because for two seconds nothing happened. It just disappeared. Then the windows and everything blow out and you see that it didn't miss.

How, in physical/scientific explanations, is that possible? How can it seem to disappear and not cause any damage to the building?
 
2001-09-12 01:55:14 AM
her is an AIM buddy icon.
 
2001-09-12 01:57:58 AM
permafrost: your looking at it wrong, the plane in that shot is coming towards you the viewer, i was confused too. it didnt go around the building
 
2001-09-12 01:59:56 AM
For those who are advocating bombing the shiate out of Afghanistan...

remember that there are a number of American, Australian and German aid workers being held prisoner over there. Some have said the lost of innocent lives is acceptable; does this apply to our countrymen?

All I can say is thank God I'm not a world leader, because I have no idea what the best way to retaliate is.

Periboob: Australia and its citizens are behind America, and we would expect the same if we had been attacked.
 
2001-09-12 02:04:38 AM
Tsubaki...

A plane is heading for a building where a couple of thousand people work. On impact, it will destroy everything there. There are 60 people on the plane. Do you shoot it down? If you were a passenger and knew you faced certain death either way, what would you choose? Does this constitute an acceptable loss of your countrymen's innocent lives?
 
2001-09-12 02:04:38 AM
Show off hands, how many "grown men" cried yesterday?

*raises hand*
 
2001-09-12 02:05:06 AM
Show "of" hands. Sleep deprivation makes typing hard.
 
2001-09-12 02:05:34 AM
 
2001-09-12 02:05:54 AM
Permafrost - Went through south wall, explosion blew out the east wall & north wall.
 
2001-09-12 02:06:16 AM
*raises hand too* briefly right after seeing the second tower falling. more from incredulity than anger or sadness.
 
2001-09-12 02:06:44 AM
from Comedy Central's The Daily Show Newsletter.


Hey everyone.

This is Dave; I am sending this message to you from home. As you are
aware, we are in the midst of a horrific national tragedy. In light of
these events, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart will not be airing new shows
for the rest of the week. We hope to be back on the air with new shows
starting next Monday the 17th.

Although a few staff members live in parts of lower Manhattan, no one was
injured.

To donate blood, please call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE or contact your local blood
bank.

The thoughts of everyone at TDS go out to the victims of today's tragedy
and their families.

Thanks

Dave Blog
TDS
 
Mac
2001-09-12 02:07:35 AM
hmmm...

I just worry about the local redneck idiots in Texas taking out any people from the middle east here. Yes, I know there are some here who are 'celebrating' and are not here for good reasons, but part of me feels that more came here because we have freedom.
 
2001-09-12 02:08:03 AM
I was really hoping John Stewart would be able to do a show, but I can understand their reasons.
 
Mac
2001-09-12 02:09:48 AM
did anyone wonder if they were dreaming a really unlikely Tom Clancy novel? I walked around for half the day, hoping to wake up
 
2001-09-12 02:10:54 AM
The real fight is going to be domestic:

From John Perry Barlow's mailing list:


*DO* WORRY ABOUT US. AND, MORE TO THE POINT, U.S.

As most of you know, I believe that the United States has gradually, subtly, invisibly to most of us, become a police state over the last 30 years.


This morning's events are roughly equivalent to the Reichstag fire that provided the social opportunity for the Nazi take-over of Germany.


I am *not* suggesting that, like the Nazis, the authoritarian forces in America actually had a direct role in perpetrating this mind-blistering tragedy. (Though their indirect role deserves a much longer discussion.)


Nevertheless, nothing could serve those who believe that American "safety" is more important than American liberty better than something like this. Control freaks will dine on this day for the rest of our lives.


Within a few hours, we will see beginning the most vigorous efforts to end what remains of freedom in America. Those of who are willing to sacrifice a little - largely illusory - safety in order to maintain our faith in the original ideals of America will have to fight for those ideals just as vigorously.


I beg you to begin NOW to do whatever you can - whether writing your public officials, joining the ACLU or EFF, taking to the streets, or living visibly free and fearless lives - to prevent the spasm of control mania from destroying the dreams that far more have died for over the last two hundred twenty five years than died this morning.


Don't let the terrorists or (their natural allies) the fascists win. Remember that the goal of terrorism is to create increasingly paralytic totalitarianism in the government it attacks. Don't give them the satisfaction.


Fear nothing. Live free.


And, please, let us try to forgive those who have committed these appalling crimes. If we hate them, we will become them.


May God - or Whatever you want to call It - bless us all. We'll need it.


Barlow
 
2001-09-12 02:11:16 AM
Not really unlikely for Tom Clancy.. happened in... what? Debt Of Honor? Airliner slams into the Capitol Building on inaguration night....
 
2001-09-12 02:11:33 AM
I cant believe it.. I've been watching this for 14 frickin hours.. I hope justice .. no.. I PRAY justice will be done...
 
2001-09-12 02:13:14 AM
and ya know what else.. This is SO like Debt Of Honor by Tom Clancy.. Wow.. This is so farked up?
 
2001-09-12 02:17:35 AM
Periboob: "Their crime, just as the innocents of today was to allow their leaders to lead them into some very bad decisions."

If that's true then everyone in the US is guilty as hell. Our leaders have led us into any number of "very bad decisions", for example: Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Vietnam, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Grenada, Libya, Chile, Vietnam, East Timor, Angola, and Cambodia.
 
2001-09-12 02:17:49 AM
Geek: I agree with you. But I doubt the prisoners in Afghanistan have very little idea of what's going on. I don't think they will be given much of a choice about whether they WANT to sacrifice their lives or not.
Not that the people on those planes had a choice either...

Bmarting: I don't know about grown men, but this grown woman has been crying on and off all day (currently 3.30pm here in Japan).
 
Mac
2001-09-12 02:18:11 AM
Neapoi,

we may not see the justice firsthand, but I've always believed that what you do comes back to you...

Jesus, it's so hard today to try to forgive...I am not sure if I can...part of me wants to watch those terrorists writhe in pain for a little bit and yet that makes me no better than them, but I still hunger for a little useless revenge.

I better get writing some poetry now...or something before I start sobbing on the keyboard
 
2001-09-12 02:18:48 AM
Bmr68...
in the news thread, you posted reference to Red Cross release.
It mentioned an explosion on the National Mall... I had never heard this confirmed.

Can anyone confirm?
 
2001-09-12 02:19:08 AM
Sorry, I meant that I doubt the prisoners have any idea
 
2001-09-12 02:25:33 AM
I didn't imagine that anyone was given a choice. I'm attempting to put myself in that position mentally ('cause you can't really) and decide if I could make peace with it for a greater good.

Speculation: Knowing the climate of AF, haven't those workers already made a choice by attempting to spread Christianity? And if they are really Christians, wouldn't they accept such things as God's will? Isn't a common Christian paradigm to accept that you're going to a better place and you'll receive extra rewards for your final efforts. Sounds a bit like the extremist Muslims...
 
2001-09-12 02:28:02 AM
Everyone is now watching us to see how we react because we are the horrible war-mongering Americans.
Other countries cheer over shooting down aircraft in their air-space, take foreigners prisoner/hostage, kill each other over religous beliefs, even kill each other over having beards where they are banned but we will be hated if we fight back. I already see posts of people hating what we may do and turning a blind eye to what has been done.
My whole life the headlines have read "Trouble in the Middle East" and for the first time ever, I feel the answer to their problems is a mushroom cloud, just put ALL of them out of their farking misery. All who are gonna tell me I'm being an asshole or racist can save their breath, I already resent myself for how I feel. I did not agree with Desert Storm but now I ask for Desert farking Typhoon.
 
2001-09-12 02:28:49 AM
Stebain, from what I know, that was just a rumor.

The thing that really got me was the video images where you can make out people jumping to their death.

BTW, can anyone explain to me how exactly terrorists could take over an entire plane with just knives? I mean, I would definitely give up my life distracting those bastards to stop them. How many terrorists were supposedly in the planes?
 
2001-09-12 02:31:19 AM
*That's* the one. Debt of Honor. I knew it was "D" something.

Now I can stop wracking my brain.
Did anyone catch the footage of the camera guy who went to try to help after the first building, and prayed he wouldn't bite it when the second one was hit?

I keep thinking about the people on the plane. No way would I voluntarily sit there while some whack took over and demanded we fly into a building. I'd depressurize the cabin and have someone kick their asses.
Then fling them out the window. You so interested in getting your 30 virgins? Let me help, farker.
 
2001-09-12 02:32:46 AM
On one plane, apparently, the hijackers were stabbing the stewardesses (again, apparently) to get the pilots to come out. Then they would have taken over the plane.

I heard earlier where a pilot (not one involved) said that he would have assumed that the plane was ONLY being hijacked, not being used for a missile. That may have allowed for more willingness to allow the hijack to occur, for fear that passengers & crew would be harmed otherwise.
 
2001-09-12 02:33:17 AM
Is it true that the pilot of the plane that went down near Pittsburgh put the plane down when he realized they were being hijacked? If so, that was some prety wuick decision-making, and that pilot must have balls of steel. Considering what could have happened had that plane reached its destination, it seems like the right thing to do, but he had a tough choice to make: kill appr 60 people myself? or let these guys potentially kill many more?

I think I know what I would do, but I would hate myself in those last few moments.
 
2001-09-12 02:33:18 AM
If tomorrow all the things were gone
I worked for all my life
And I had to start again
With just my children and my wife

Thank my lucky stars
To be living here today
Cause the flag still stands for freedom
And they can't take that away

Chorus:
And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I'ld gladly stand up next to you
And defend Her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt
I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.

From the lakes of Minnesota
To the hills of Tennessee
Across the plains of Texas
From sea to shining sea

From Detroit down to Houston
And New York to L.A.
There's pride in every American heart
And it's time we stand and say...

That I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I'ld gladly stand up next to you
And defend Her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt
I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.

And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I'ld gladly stand up next to you
And defend Her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt
I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.
 
2001-09-12 02:33:26 AM
amen
 
Mac
2001-09-12 02:34:33 AM
yeah there's trouble there...but there has always been...just as there has always been trouble in Ireland (I write about the ancient celts in Eire, so I know a bit about that)...

yeah, we're hated, but so what. Not everyone likes WASPS, jews, the hispanic, the blacks, etc, etc...

hatred has been aroud since the beginning of time and I doubt a bomb would solve the problem. NOt that I am the one who can handle the solving of this prob...or any single person...

And condemning an entire region because of some sick people is kind of short-sighted in my opinion...

Mac gets off the soapbox and finishes her poem
 
2001-09-12 02:35:45 AM
Permafrost:

"No way would I voluntarily sit there while some whack took over and demanded we fly into a building"

You say that now but there is really no way to tell how anybody would react. My bet is that most would react just like those on the planes did.
 
2001-09-12 02:35:56 AM
Yet again, I guess you're right, Geek.

I just know this is going to end in war, but I wish more than anything that there was another way around it. But I can't see it.

I'm just trying to work out if it will be safer in Australia than Japan.
 
2001-09-12 02:36:30 AM
Desert Typhoon. Hmmm...I think I have that sega game.

It's hard not to feel bitter.
I want to give them the finger by dancing around with my own american flag, or wrapping it around me with nothing else on, and saying "eat it. i'm still here. america still lives, and i'm proud to be one."

I want to show them with love and pride, but they wouldn't get it.
So instead it has to be bombs and guns and guns and bombs.

I wonder if they seriously stop to look at what happened, if they'd still say they gained something.
People we don't know, who aren't even involved in this, cheering for the deaths of people they don't know, who had nothing to do with their issues. Doesn't compute.
 
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