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(CBS News) NewsFlash "And that's the way it is" Walter Cronkite dies   (cbsnews.com) divider line 1111
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13535 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2009 at 8:38 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2009-07-18 01:59:10 AM
CowboyUpCowgirlDown: Sabyen91: CowboyUpCowgirlDown: R.I.P. V/C Sympathizer

Classy.

I was hoping you'd think so. Here's another:


R.I.P. Ho Chi Mennonite


You talk tough, that is a start.
 
2009-07-18 01:59:41 AM
TommyymmoT: Nope. I had 2 LRRPs as roomates for a couple of years, and absolutely never did they, or their friends use any of those movie terms, or put it in that perspective.

Also, there were no almost women in foward positions, for reasons you'll never see on MASH, or China Beach.
That statement was pretty damed funny though.

I'm hoping it was just satire.


Yeah, it sounded like bullshaite to me as well but I just had to use the Convincing Savant meme. :P
 
2009-07-18 01:59:46 AM
img193.imageshack.us


R.I.P. Bill Murray as Walter Cronkite in 1977 SNL Sketch.
 
2009-07-18 01:59:56 AM
i479.photobucket.com

RIP Walter Cronkite
 
2009-07-18 02:00:50 AM
mrlumpy: I think the irony of the staged "I'm a concerned reporter" poses is lost on most of you. He's a NEWSREADER, who reads news someone else wrote - he promulgates ideas someone ELSE came up with - some shadowy figures you'll never see - yet he pretends to read their positions with conviction. He's a fraud, like all newsreaders.

WRONG. Cronkite read only what HE wrote.

He was not a "news reader". He was a reporter first and managing editor of CBS News. Nothing then went on the air without solid fact checking and sources.

It's soooooo obvious you have no clue how Cronkite worked or how CBS News worked in those days. So please, tell me...you got this info from Freepers, right? And you're how old?
 
2009-07-18 02:01:16 AM
GratuityIncluded: RIP Walter Cronkite

Wow. Now THAT'S meta.
 
2009-07-18 02:03:21 AM
Unknown_Poltroon: Fart_Machine: zabadu: Fart_Machine: zabadu: My BROTHER was spit on. You revisionists will do anything. It's scary and appalling and way, way more destructive than anything that has come before you tinfoil hatters.

I'll go off documentation (or lack thereof) vs anonymous troll on the internet.

But thanks anyway.

So you'll go off Wiki and Freeper, but not off actual family members of vets. Well then, go ahead and believe your Tinfoil family. I've worked with vets. They all have their "babykiller" stories. Bet you weren't even born when they came home - nor when the POWs - what was left of them - were returned. Did you wear a POW bracelet? Yeah, I'm sure you were there.

Well I was five at the time so yes I was born.

Howver some of my family members were vets and they were never spit on. Sure, there were assholes however it's now become a cliche that has turned into an urban myth. Have you read the book I just linked?

When is the last time you read a book? I mean a real book about any type of history, written by a historian and not someone Glenn Beck or Limbaugh told you to read?

I just linked you one. Where did I even mention Glenn Beck or Limbaugh? Are you drunk or just trolling me?

You know what, I was ready to call bullshiat on zabadu, i thought they were just a troll, but no, i think they're legit.


Like I said, I've been here a long time. I grew up with Cronkite, studied him and know his methods of reporting. This tinfoil bullshiat is really just that.

Of course, I'm pissing in the wind, because no one does actual research anymore before forming their theories and beliefs. They just go to the Internet, which of course is never wrong.
 
2009-07-18 02:07:18 AM
Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.
 
2009-07-18 02:08:10 AM
Odd, about a week ago I felt like looking up Walter Cronkite to see if he was still alive. I could've sworn he had died at least a decade ago so I was rather surprised to find out he was still alive. And now of course he dies. I think I'm cursed, as soon as I pay attention to someone they die.
 
2009-07-18 02:08:42 AM
LasssiterBeRight: As a Vietnam Veteran, I remember all too well how stunning and complete our victory during Tet. We obliterated Charlie.

And how Walter single handedly convinced the world we'd lost just as decisively. NV Gen. Diap said Walter played a decisive role in convincing NV and their backers Russia and Red China to keep trying their communist insurgency and violent overthrow of the Republic of South Vietnam. Thanks Walter. They were ready to sue for peace until they saw Cronkite's utterly traitorous report.

There's nothing nice to say about a man whose soul is that black.


Where did you serve and when did you start taking communist words for truth? How many men died in your platoon? I have yet to meet a soldier that saw action in Vietnam believe ANYTHING a VC would say, let alone believe that the VCs based their strategies on what one newsman said.

I'd say you were more VC than Vet.
 
2009-07-18 02:08:51 AM
Why Can't We All Just Get Along?
i661.photobucket.com
Maybe because this is Fark.
 
2009-07-18 02:10:20 AM
LasssiterBeRight: As a Vietnam Veteran, I remember all too well how stunning and complete our victory during Tet. We obliterated Charlie.

And how Walter single handedly convinced the world we'd lost just as decisively. NV Gen. Diap said Walter played a decisive role in convincing NV and their backers Russia and Red China to keep trying their communist insurgency and violent overthrow of the Republic of South Vietnam. Thanks Walter. They were ready to sue for peace until they saw Cronkite's utterly traitorous report.

There's nothing nice to say about a man whose soul is that black.


You are a farking liar, have been since you got your account. fark off.
 
2009-07-18 02:14:06 AM
vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Or we just don't care anymore, because you'll never admit to being wrong, even though it was pointed out to you. So, there's that.
 
2009-07-18 02:14:27 AM
LasssiterBeRight: As a Vietnam Veteran, I remember all too well how stunning and complete our victory during Tet. We obliterated Charlie.

And how Walter single handedly convinced the world we'd lost just as decisively. NV Gen. Diap said Walter played a decisive role in convincing NV and their backers Russia and Red China to keep trying their communist insurgency and violent overthrow of the Republic of South Vietnam. Thanks Walter. They were ready to sue for peace until they saw Cronkite's utterly traitorous report.

There's nothing nice to say about a man whose soul is that black.


And since you won't look it up, here it is:

Supposedly, General Giap had written in How We Won the War that in the aftermath of the Tet Offensive of 1968, the Communist leaders in Vietnam had been ready to abandon the war, but that a broadcast by Walter Cronkite, declaring the Tet Offensive a Communist victory, persuaded them to change their minds and fight on. This rumor was entirely false. Giap had not mentioned Cronkite, and had not said the Communists had ever considered giving up on the war.

Several variants of this rumor appeared in 2004. In these, Giap is supposed to have credited either the American anti-war movement in general, or John Kerry's organization (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) in particular, for persuading the Communist leaders to change their minds and not give up on the war. Giap is sometimes said to have made this statement in How We Won the War, sometimes in an unnamed 1985 memoir. All versions of the rumor are false. Neither in How We Won the War, nor in any other book (the 1985 memoir is entirely imaginary), has Giap mentioned Kerry or Vietnam Veterans Against the War, or said that the Communist leaders had ever considered giving up on the war.
As well, a few weeks after Washington Dispatch commentator Greg Lewis cited this claim in a February 2004 column about Senator Kerry, he issued a mea culpa in which he acknowledged that he was unable to verify it:
A few weeks ago in a column about Kerry, I referred to what has turned out to be an "urban legend." Specifically, based on a "news" item that appeared on NewsMax.com, I repeated a reference to a volume of memoirs supposedly published by North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap in 1985 as the source of an assertion by Colonel Oliver North. After a reader requested a reference to Giap's 1985 "Memoirs," I did research that convinced me no such volume exists.
For that matter, I haven't been able to verify through Fox News that Colonel North actually made the comments he is said to have made and which I repeated. My apologies to Colonel North and to WashingtonDispatch.com readers for including inadequately verified material in my piece on Kerry.
 
2009-07-18 02:14:30 AM
vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Late to the party. What if he did? Do you buy it? Was the US on the cusp of "victory"? Does Giap not sound like Chalabi?
 
2009-07-18 02:14:48 AM
Vern: Odd, about a week ago I felt like looking up Walter Cronkite to see if he was still alive. I could've sworn he had died at least a decade ago so I was rather surprised to find out he was still alive. And now of course he dies. I think I'm cursed, as soon as I pay attention to someone they die.

IGNORE ME!
 
2009-07-18 02:15:55 AM
onebadgungan: mrlumpy: I think the irony of the staged "I'm a concerned reporter" poses is lost on most of you. He's a NEWSREADER, who reads news someone else wrote - he promulgates ideas someone ELSE came up with - some shadowy figures you'll never see - yet he pretends to read their positions with conviction. He's a fraud, like all newsreaders.

Apparently you don't understand the difference between a real reporter in the past and what passes for a "reporter" now.


Yeah, Cronkite actually verified sources before using them.
 
2009-07-18 02:16:05 AM
vertiaset: As for the Giap quotes: I initially relied upon This Article (new window) by Lee Carey in the American Thinker in which he gives the quotation from Giap and cites " (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005 as the source.

However, many other attributions are similarly made of Giap. Including the highly regarded Giap the Victor (new window) by Peter G. MacDonald to name just one.



American Thinker?

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!farking fail dickhead.

It's a right wing myth.
 
2009-07-18 02:17:25 AM
vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Are you serious? Is that waht you think? Cause an article in American "Thinker" said it?

You are stupid cocksucker and EXACTLY what is wrong with america.
 
2009-07-18 02:18:08 AM
onebadgungan

vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Or we just don't care anymore, because you'll never admit to being wrong, even though it was pointed out to you. So, there's that.


Nah, it got quiet when I cited and linked two reputable sources. Nothing shuts down the idiot brigade like a good link to a highly respected source. You know, like a world renowned, meticulously researched and referenced biography rather than your cousin's blog, Wikipedia or Snopes.com. You know, the usual Fark sources.
 
2009-07-18 02:18:20 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
Nevermind what Katie Couric said about him, he was a good man.
 
2009-07-18 02:19:01 AM
abb3w: FloydA: Um...he died almost a month ago, subby.

A few weeks back his family issued a statement that Cronkite had cerebrovascular disease, was failing, and was not expected to recuperate. However, he finally died today.



He was taken to a better hospital where his condition was upgraded to: "alive".

Sorry, did not read all comments before posting.


/prolly been done already
//along with "eaten by wolves?"
///and "He was the reason we lost VietNam"
 
2009-07-18 02:19:38 AM
vertiaset: As for the Giap quotes: I initially relied upon This Article (new window) by Lee Carey in the American Thinker in which he gives the quotation from Giap and cites " (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005 as the source.

However, many other attributions are similarly made of Giap. Including the highly regarded Giap the Victor (new window) by Peter G. MacDonald to name just one.


First of all American Thinker is about as reliable as using Kos so I'd like a better source than a supposed quotes book the author claims to have gotten his information from. I did find the Langer publication but I couldn't find where he got the attributed quote either because the entire volume isn't on-line.

Secondly the other source link doesn't make any mention about Cronkite or even the anti-war movement as being attributed to Giap.
 
2009-07-18 02:20:22 AM
PascalsGhost: vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Are you serious? Is that waht you think? Cause an article in American "Thinker" said it?

You are stupid cocksucker and EXACTLY what is wrong with america.


apparently par for the course with this guy. he said some amazing stupidity earlier today. for his sake I hope its just trolling and not an actual reflection of his mind
 
2009-07-18 02:21:29 AM
and in a related story, michael jackson is dead
 
2009-07-18 02:22:23 AM
PascalsGhost

vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Are you serious? Is that waht you think? Cause an article in American "Thinker" said it?

You are stupid cocksucker and EXACTLY what is wrong with america.


Lol. Keep it up little fella. Your outbursts are music to my ears. I can just see the veins popping out on your forehead and it gives me joy to know that I have such influence, such real power, over the simple minded.

Now, I cited TWO sources, the American Thinker article cited its original source. The other was a link to a biography of Giap. Anybody with any talent for research could find a number of others in just a few minutes.

You are so much fun.
 
2009-07-18 02:22:30 AM
It's a conspiracy, he's still alive.. the video is all over youtube and someone already saw 3 of his ghosts in an Omelet Shoppe eating pizza and cat brains.

/you KNOW it is coming.
 
2009-07-18 02:24:00 AM
discospinster: R.I.P. WALTER CRONKITE


WIN!!!



\\the butthurt is strong in this thread
 
2009-07-18 02:24:03 AM
www.jrobinson.com
May the forks be with you Walter Cronkite.
 
2009-07-18 02:25:57 AM
Sabyen91: vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Late to the party. What if he did? Do you buy it? Was the US on the cusp of "victory"? Does Giap not sound like Chalabi?


Morley Safer did not lose the Vietnam war. Neither did television, although there are those like George Will and William Westmoreland who would have it otherwise. Television is without parallel in showing the cost of war. But the cost of war, as with the cost of anything, has meaning only in relation to value. It is the objective of the war, Carl von Clausewitz wrote in 1832, that determines its value, and it is that value that determines the sacrifices to be made for it both in magnitude and duration.

For Americans the objective of the Vietnam war, and hence its value, was never made clear. That was true even on the battlefield. "Almost 70 percent of Army generals who managed the war," reported Brigadier General Douglas Kinnard, later chief of the Army's Center of Military History, "were uncertain of its objectives." No wonder the American people eventually judged the cost to be exorbitant.

But for the Vietnamese communists it was a different story, as Safer found during his return visit to Vietnam. "Your soldiers fought very well," said North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap (whose reputation, Safer notes, was based "on the bones of perhaps two million of 'the sacrificed'"), "but they did not know why they were here . . . ours were martyrs to a cause."

Safer got the same story from retired Colonel Bui Tin of the North Vietnamese Army (NVA). In one of the many contradictions he encountered, Safer was surprised to learn that Tin, a 37-year NVA veteran, has a sister living in Los Angeles. Not only that, but Colonel Tin had visited the Vietnam Memorial in Washington. "You must remember the kind of bravery those young men had," Colonel Tin told Safer. "They may not have had much understanding of the aims of that war. But the sacrifice, so much sacrifice, must not be forgotten."

Asked if it was hard to keep his own men motivated during their incredible hardships moving supplies down the Ho Chi Minh trail, Colonel Tin replied, "It was not hard because our men had an idea, a cause."

But was the cause worth it? This was the question Safer posed to Dr. Duong Quynh Hoa, one of the 16 founders of the National Liberation Front, the Vietcong. Dr. Hoa left the communist party in 1979, "thoroughly disillusioned with what she called the second-rate people who had taken over."

"I thought I was making a revolution for the people," she said. "I discovered that I made a revolution for a cause, for a discipline, for an ideology. The people had nothing to do with it."

Such disillusionment was mirrored in Safer's conversation with Pham Xuan An, an erstwhile correspondent for Reuters and for Time magazine in Saigon who turned out to be a Viet Cong colonel who had been working for the communists since 1944. "By 1975 I had few hopes left that the revolution would be anything but the disaster it has turned into," he told Safer.

"Why did your revolution fail so miserably?" Safer asked. An replied, "They called it a people's revolution. But of course the people were the first to suffer; the people were immediately forgotten. They still haven't remembered the people."


Asked if he had any regrets, however, An said "No. No regrets. I had to do it. This peace that I fought for may be crippling this country, but the war was killing it . . . . The Americans had to be driven out of Vietnam one way or another. We must sort this place out ourselves."
 
2009-07-18 02:31:30 AM
vertiaset: onebadgungan

vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Or we just don't care anymore, because you'll never admit to being wrong, even though it was pointed out to you. So, there's that.

Nah, it got quiet when I cited and linked two reputable sources. Nothing shuts down the idiot brigade like a good link to a highly respected source. You know, like a world renowned, meticulously researched and referenced biography rather than your cousin's blog, Wikipedia or Snopes.com. You know, the usual Fark sources.


American Thinker is a reliable source? LOL

Listen asshole, you are spouting LIES, youa re just too stupid to realize you are.
 
2009-07-18 02:33:23 AM
vertiaset: PascalsGhost

vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Are you serious? Is that waht you think? Cause an article in American "Thinker" said it?

You are stupid cocksucker and EXACTLY what is wrong with america.

Lol. Keep it up little fella. Your outbursts are music to my ears. I can just see the veins popping out on your forehead and it gives me joy to know that I have such influence, such real power, over the simple minded.

Now, I cited TWO sources, the American Thinker article cited its original source. The other was a link to a biography of Giap. Anybody with any talent for research could find a number of others in just a few minutes.

You are so much fun.


Then you simply have no reading comprehension. In fact, when this was brought up in the smearing of Kerry in 04, the guy APOLOGIZED fro lying.

Again, did you ever serve?
 
2009-07-18 02:35:01 AM
RIP Walter. Let a very old man die in peace. May you have peace at last.
 
2009-07-18 02:37:54 AM
vertiaset: onebadgungan

vertiaset: Well, it looks like I shut down the "Giap never said it" idiots.

Or we just don't care anymore, because you'll never admit to being wrong, even though it was pointed out to you. So, there's that.

Nah, it got quiet when I cited and linked two reputable sources. Nothing shuts down the idiot brigade like a good link to a highly respected source. You know, like a world renowned, meticulously researched and referenced biography rather than your cousin's blog, Wikipedia or Snopes.com. You know, the usual Fark sources.


RadicalMiddle: FYI for all of you writing about Gen. Giap. He has never said that his army was near defeat. There is no Wall Street Journal article, the was no book.

Fart_Machine: Do you have a link because the actual article states he said no such thing and Bui Tin never mentions Cronkite.

And just to repost what you obviously missed so egregiously:

zabadu: Supposedly, General Giap had written in How We Won the War that in the aftermath of the Tet Offensive of 1968, the Communist leaders in Vietnam had been ready to abandon the war, but that a broadcast by Walter Cronkite, declaring the Tet Offensive a Communist victory, persuaded them to change their minds and fight on. This rumor was entirely false. Giap had not mentioned Cronkite, and had not said the Communists had ever considered giving up on the war.

Several variants of this rumor appeared in 2004. In these, Giap is supposed to have credited either the American anti-war movement in general, or John Kerry's organization (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) in particular, for persuading the Communist leaders to change their minds and not give up on the war. Giap is sometimes said to have made this statement in How We Won the War, sometimes in an unnamed 1985 memoir. All versions of the rumor are false. Neither in How We Won the War, nor in any other book (the 1985 memoir is entirely imaginary), has Giap mentioned Kerry or Vietnam Veterans Against the War, or said that the Communist leaders had ever considered giving up on the war.
As well, a few weeks after Washington Dispatch commentator Greg Lewis cited this claim in a February 2004 column about Senator Kerry, he issued a mea culpa in which he acknowledged that he was unable to verify it:
A few weeks ago in a column about Kerry, I referred to what has turned out to be an "urban legend." Specifically, based on a "news" item that appeared on NewsMax.com, I repeated a reference to a volume of memoirs supposedly published by North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap in 1985 as the source of an assertion by Colonel Oliver North. After a reader requested a reference to Giap's 1985 "Memoirs," I did research that convinced me no such volume exists. For that matter, I haven't been able to verify through Fox News that Colonel North actually made the comments he is said to have made and which I repeated. My apologies to Colonel North and to WashingtonDispatch.com readers for including inadequately verified material in my piece on Kerry.


Hmm, yep. You told us, all right.
 
2009-07-18 02:38:33 AM
The_Time_Master: Odd, I thought he died when the News Media stopped informing and started entertaining.

You're missing the REALTM issue.
Should we blame Bush for his pre-existing illness?
Or Blame Obama for his death?

/RIP news
//RIP newsman
 
2009-07-18 02:39:06 AM
PascalsGhost: Again, did you ever serve?

I'm not even going to go looking for which side of which argument you are on, but military service does not preclude anyone from being a lying douchebag - which I'm not accusing you of. Just pointing out the fallacy in your logic.
 
2009-07-18 02:39:17 AM
Fart_Machine

vertiaset: As for the Giap quotes: I initially relied upon This Article (new window) by Lee Carey in the American Thinker in which he gives the quotation from Giap and cites " (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005 as the source.

However, many other attributions are similarly made of Giap. Including the highly regarded Giap the Victor (new window) by Peter G. MacDonald to name just one.


First of all American Thinker is about as reliable as using Kos so I'd like a better source than a supposed quotes book the author claims to have gotten his information from. I did find the Langer publication but I couldn't find where he got the attributed quote either because the entire volume isn't on-line.

Secondly the other source link doesn't make any mention about Cronkite or even the anti-war movement as being attributed to Giap.


The American Thinker is NOT the source of the quote. The source of the quote is The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer. Neither source mentions Cronkite being mentioned by Giap. The reference, in both sources, is to American public opinion after the Tet Offensive becoming an important strategic advantage to the North Vietnamese.

This, by the way, according to the many other sources I have read was an entirely unintentional effect of the Tet Offensive. Giap and the NVA General Staff expected a popular uprising to occur, which of course, never materialized and the NVA was soundly defeated in Saigon and Hue. It was this unintended windfall to their cause which shifted their strategy from offensive to defensive and a war of attrition which they eventually won. Cronkite is personally responsible for much of this shift in public attention, a decrease in the bombing, which had been much more effective than our intelligence realized. This was the real military failure which flowed from Tet. Those of you with IQs above room temperature might try reading this Master's thesis presented to the Faculty of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College by LCDR Charles A.P. Turner. He also speaks of Giap and the effect of Tet on NVA strategy in the larger context of the failures of American Intelligence during the period.

History, learn it and stop mouthing off about a subject you know nothing about save what you read on Wikipedia or Snopes.com.
 
2009-07-18 02:45:12 AM
vertiaset: Fart_Machine

vertiaset: As for the Giap quotes: I initially relied upon This Article (new window) by Lee Carey in the American Thinker in which he gives the quotation from Giap and cites " (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005 as the source.

However, many other attributions are similarly made of Giap. Including the highly regarded Giap the Victor (new window) by Peter G. MacDonald to name just one.

First of all American Thinker is about as reliable as using Kos so I'd like a better source than a supposed quotes book the author claims to have gotten his information from. I did find the Langer publication but I couldn't find where he got the attributed quote either because the entire volume isn't on-line.

Secondly the other source link doesn't make any mention about Cronkite or even the anti-war movement as being attributed to Giap.

The American Thinker is NOT the source of the quote. The source of the quote is The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer. Neither source mentions Cronkite being mentioned by Giap. The reference, in both sources, is to American public opinion after the Tet Offensive becoming an important strategic advantage to the North Vietnamese.

This, by the way, according to the many other sources I have read was an entirely unintentional effect of the Tet Offensive. Giap and the NVA General Staff expected a popular uprising to occur, which of course, never materialized and the NVA was soundly defeated in Saigon and Hue. It was this unintended windfall to their cause which shifted their strategy from offensive to defensive and a war of attrition which they eventually won. Cronkite is personally responsible for much of this shift in public attention, a decrease in the bombing, which had been much more effective than our intelligence realized. This was the real military failure which flowed from Tet. Those of you with IQs above room temperature might try reading this Master's thesis presented to the Faculty of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College by LCDR Charles A.P. Turner. He also speaks of Giap and the effect of Tet on NVA strategy in the larger context of the failures of American Intelligence during the period.

History, learn it and stop mouthing off about a subject you know nothing about save what you read on Wikipedia or Snopes.com.


Even if it were true, jesus, you still buy it? You think Chalabi was telling the truth? I guess it just means there are plenty of opportunists to go around.
 
2009-07-18 02:46:20 AM
Fart_Machine:

apparently par for the course with this guy. he said some amazing stupidity earlier today. for his sake I hope its just trolling and not an actual reflection of his mind


Whether trolling or dead serious, vertiaset gives every indication of being severely deficient mental-wise. Very tedious in any case.
 
2009-07-18 02:47:41 AM
vertiaset: As for the Giap quotes: I initially relied upon This Article (new window) by Lee Carey in the American Thinker in which he gives the quotation from Giap and cites " (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005 as the source.

However, many other attributions are similarly made of Giap. Including the highly regarded Giap the Victor (new window) by Peter G. MacDonald to name just one.


Who says that book is huighly regarded? it is quite the opposite. Show me where it is highly regarded.



vertiaset: Fart_Machine

vertiaset: As for the Giap quotes: I initially relied upon This Article (new window) by Lee Carey in the American Thinker in which he gives the quotation from Giap and cites " (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005 as the source.

However, many other attributions are similarly made of Giap. Including the highly regarded Giap the Victor (new window) by Peter G. MacDonald to name just one.

First of all American Thinker is about as reliable as using Kos so I'd like a better source than a supposed quotes book the author claims to have gotten his information from. I did find the Langer publication but I couldn't find where he got the attributed quote either because the entire volume isn't on-line.

Secondly the other source link doesn't make any mention about Cronkite or even the anti-war movement as being attributed to Giap.

The American Thinker is NOT the source of the quote. The source of the quote is The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer. Neither source mentions Cronkite being mentioned by Giap. The reference, in both sources, is to American public opinion after the Tet Offensive becoming an important strategic advantage to the North Vietnamese.

This, by the way, according to the many other sources I have read was an entirely unintentional effect of the Tet Offensive. Giap and the NVA General Staff expected a popular uprising to occur, which of course, never materialized and the NVA was soundly defeated in Saigon and Hue. It was this unintended windfall to their cause which shifted their strategy from offensive to defensive and a war of attrition which they eventually won. Cronkite is personally responsible for much of this shift in public attention, a decrease in the bombing, which had been much more effective than our intelligence realized.


You think that, you cited nothing.

History, learn it and stop mouthing off about a subject you know nothing about save what you read on Wikipedia or Snopes.com.



You've just been proven to be a liar or idiot when it come to history of the war. You are clueless on history.
 
2009-07-18 02:48:43 AM
vertiaset never served and never will. He is a cheerleader.
 
2009-07-18 02:50:21 AM
vertiaset: Fart_Machine

vertiaset: As for the Giap quotes: I initially relied upon This Article (new window) by Lee Carey in the American Thinker in which he gives the quotation from Giap and cites " (The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer, 2005 as the source.

However, many other attributions are similarly made of Giap. Including the highly regarded Giap the Victor (new window) by Peter G. MacDonald to name just one.

First of all American Thinker is about as reliable as using Kos so I'd like a better source than a supposed quotes book the author claims to have gotten his information from. I did find the Langer publication but I couldn't find where he got the attributed quote either because the entire volume isn't on-line.

Secondly the other source link doesn't make any mention about Cronkite or even the anti-war movement as being attributed to Giap.

The American Thinker is NOT the source of the quote. The source of the quote is The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, Howard Langer. Neither source mentions Cronkite being mentioned by Giap. The reference, in both sources, is to American public opinion after the Tet Offensive becoming an important strategic advantage to the North Vietnamese.

This, by the way, according to the many other sources I have read was an entirely unintentional effect of the Tet Offensive. Giap and the NVA General Staff expected a popular uprising to occur, which of course, never materialized and the NVA was soundly defeated in Saigon and Hue. It was this unintended windfall to their cause which shifted their strategy from offensive to defensive and a war of attrition which they eventually won. Cronkite is personally responsible for much of this shift in public attention, a decrease in the bombing, which had been much more effective than our intelligence realized. This was the real military failure which flowed from Tet. Those of you with IQs above room temperature might try reading this Master's thesis presented to the Faculty of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College by LCDR Charles A.P. Turner. He also speaks of Giap and the effect of Tet on NVA strategy in the larger context of the failures of American Intelligence during the period.

History, learn it and stop mouthing off about a subject you know nothing about save what you read on Wikipedia or Snopes.com.


Ok, looked it up a bit and it seems the only sites that claim what you claim are right-wing troll sites. Shocking.
 
2009-07-18 02:55:44 AM
On a related note, "Cronkite" is an English phonetic spelling of the German "Krankheit" which means disease or illness.

You can't hide the truth from me, you slimey Kraut!
 
2009-07-18 02:58:13 AM
PascalsGhost

vertiaset never served and never will. He is a cheerleader.


The unintentional humor in that statement is priceless.

Keep coming back for more junior.

Cronkite, by interjecting his OPINION into his reporting of the news after Tet, something which was previously unknown, not only lowered the standards of broadcast journalism for all time but changed a victory into a defeat, cost thousands of lives and eventually contriubted to the fall of Vietnam to the communists.

May he burn in hell for what he did to our fighting men and women.
 
2009-07-18 03:01:12 AM
www.mediabistro.com
RIP Walter Chronic
 
2009-07-18 03:01:15 AM
vertiaset: PascalsGhost

vertiaset never served and never will. He is a cheerleader.

The unintentional humor in that statement is priceless.

Keep coming back for more junior.

Cronkite, by interjecting his OPINION into his reporting of the news after Tet, something which was previously unknown, not only lowered the standards of broadcast journalism for all time but changed a victory into a defeat, cost thousands of lives and eventually contriubted to the fall of Vietnam to the communists.

May he burn in hell for what he did to our fighting men and women.


Most of what you've said has been proven wrong or a lie. Why listen to anything you say dude?

You're a farking pussy who hasn't given anything to this country but stupidity. I mean, you are so farking worthless you think Cronkite contributed to our losing Vietnam. You've lied or been fooled, its been proven, you offer nothing to the conversation.

Honest question: Do you even have a job?
 
2009-07-18 03:03:52 AM
vertiaset: PascalsGhost

vertiaset never served and never will. He is a cheerleader.

The unintentional humor in that statement is priceless.

Keep coming back for more junior.

Cronkite, by interjecting his OPINION into his reporting of the news after Tet, something which was previously unknown, not only lowered the standards of broadcast journalism for all time but changed a victory into a defeat, cost thousands of lives and eventually contriubted to the fall of Vietnam to the communists.

May he burn in hell for what he did to our fighting men and women.


Here, a little about that "respected book" you stupid fool:

It is probably that when he met with Giap (and his illustrations include a picture of the two of them together), he listened to a set speech that Giap regularly delivers to foreign visitors in which there is no opportunity for questions, for give-and-take, or for free exchange of ideas. This has been Giap's pattern for decades and this book gives no evidence that he has changed his policy. Indeed, we reach page 178 before MacDonald informs his readers that "Giap told the author that the people and the collective leadership had won the wars, and not him...." Giap tells everyone that. It is part of his set speech to visitors. So much for the high-level and informative nature of MacDonald's interviews in Ha Noi.

Errors fill these pages. MacDonald consistently misspells French names and he is hopelessly at sea with Vietnamese ones. He repeats as fact empty gossip started by French journalists in the 1960s: Giap was a "swinger" in Ha Noi in the years immediately after the Second World War; Ho Chi Minh had to interfere to curtail his womanizing by introducing Giap to the woman who became his second wife. In fact, there is no real evidence for his purported lifestyle and Giap had known his second wife, Dang Bich Ha (MacDonald gives her name as "Ba Hanh") since she was a small girl when he lived for a time at the home of her father, Professor Dang Thai Mai (named in the book as "Dang Thai Min").

MacDonald asserts that "Dang Thai Minh" was the father of Giap's first wife, whom he names as "Nguyen Thi Minh Giang." He is thus wrong on two counts. One wonders how a man with the family name of "Dang" could be the father of a woman whose family name was "Nguyen"; in any case, her father was Nguyen Huy Binh, an employee at the Vinh train station, and her name was Nguyen Thi Quang Thai! She was four years younger than Giap and they met while in prison at the Lao Bao penitentiary in the mountains near the Laotian border to which both were sent in 1930. MacDonald mentions none of this.

The author of this book does not know when Giap was born (25 August 1911, not 28 August), nor that he went off from his home village of An Xa to school in Hué in 1923 when he was twelve (rather than in 1924 when he was thirteen). He tells us that Giap's pseudonym during the Second World War was "Nan," when it was actually "Van." He does not know when Giap learned of the death of Quang Thai. He does not know that Major Allison Kent Thomas was head of the American OSS Deer Team, which parachuted into northern Viet Nam in 1944. He tells his readers that Giap named his first military force (in actuality Tuyen Truyen Giai Phong Quan or the Armed Propaganda and Liberation Brigade) the Quan Doi Nhan Dan (which in translation means the People's Army Daily, a newspaper).

MacDonald does not know when Giap's soldiers finally abandoned Ha Noi in a fighting retreat in the face of returning French troops. Examples could be greatly extended. In his depiction of Tet 1968, MacDonald describes Giap as the enthusiastic architect of the offensive rather than its long-standing opponent. He does not know that Ho Chi Minh assigned Truong Chinh to head up land reform in the North, nor, seemingly, much of anything else. So much for any new insights in this book.
 
2009-07-18 03:05:28 AM
DamnYankees: This dude was 13 years old when The Great Depression started.

I mean...what the hell.


And he nearly got to see a second one. Yuck!
 
2009-07-18 03:06:15 AM
Give Peter Jennings my best, you are both missed!

/and that's the way it is.
 
2009-07-18 03:07:13 AM
I love it, I'm probably on everyone's ignore list now.
 
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