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(MSNBC)   Ashcroft targeting pipe shops �This illegal billion-dollar industry will no longer be ignored by law enforcement."   ( ) divider line
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25193 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2003 at 4:48 AM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2003-02-25 05:56:42 AM  
BTW, i should mention that guns are an entirely separate issue. It's kinda hard to compare something that results in so many deaths a year to a bong, and still look like a rational individual. The theorizing about people making guns and ammo from scratch is pretty silly. I somehow doubt that the local crackhead is going to start making guns to try to pull off a mugging. Bongs, however, are simple and easy to make. All you need is any type of hollow container. It's not like pot usage is going to decline if you get rid of headshops.
2003-02-25 05:59:19 AM  
I don't really have time to respond to all of this, I'm tired and it's 4AM. Some of this stuff has already been dealt with, but I'd like to single this one out as particularly asinine:

I can't believe Loligo is drawing comparisons between pot and firearms.

Why not? It's a similar argument, but at opposite ends of the spectrum.

People in favor of firearms point out that the vast majority of firearms owners use them for legal purposes: Target shooting, hunting, and home defense. Most guns don't even get used on a regular basis. Yet the anti-gunners point to the tiny TINY minority that use them for illegal purposes, and use this to explain why they should be banned, why they should be confiscated even from the millions upon millions of owners that have never used them for any illegal purpose - simply because they COULD be.

People opposed to the confiscation of drug paraphenalia point out that there is a tiny TINY minority of people that use their bongs and papers and pipes for legal purposes: smoking tobacco. Yet the vast majority of owners of these products use them for an ILLEGAL purpose: the consumption of illicit drugs. But so many people in this thread are saying it's horrible for dealers of these products to be sut down - simply because they COULD be used for something legal, but the vast majority are not. Or do you really think that monstrosity in FlakMonkey's picture was intended to smoke cool refreshing tobacco?

Why is what's good for the goose bad for the gander?

2003-02-25 06:03:44 AM  
All right

fark it

There is no talking to this man.

I propose ignoring Loligo until he goes back to his klan meeting.
2003-02-25 06:05:03 AM  
Would a gun-bong be legal? It could be used for many legal and illegal things but wouldn't it be covered under the second amendment?
Everyone should attach their guns to their bongs with duct tape to make gun-bongs and then the government can't touch you.
2003-02-25 06:06:10 AM  
I propose ignoring Loligo until he goes back to his klan meeting.

Ahh, the last refuge of the frustrated: accusations of racism.

I mentioned earlier: I think you SHOULD be able to put whatever you want in your body. If you wanna smoke crack in your basement, I think you should be legally allowed to do so. HOWEVER, at this time, the law says you cannot. Period.

If you can point out a logical flaw in any of my arguments, please feel free to do so and I will address them in turn. However, since you can't, you will resort to accusing me of being a klan member and run back to the living room to smoke bonghits in your underwear and think you are committing an act of civil disobedience.

2003-02-25 06:08:00 AM  
I've never had any illusions as to what bongs are used for. I've never seen tobacco smoked out of one. But are they honestly as dangerous as a gun? Do they belong in the same argument? No.

As for guns being used for home defense, hunting etc, thats all fine and dandy. But when militias hijack these reasonings to justify their ownership of fully automatic weapons then the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Everyone knows that bongs and such are illegal. Everyone knows you can get around that by selling them for tobacco use only. The point is Asscroft could be doing something about the real threats to American society.

And don't call me asinine. I'll hunt you down and kill you with my bong.
2003-02-25 06:08:46 AM  
i dont smoke pot but this is just farking stupid. california(my state) has made it clear to the feds that it doesnt want to worry too much about weed. ashcroft needs to get a farking clue....god what an a$$hole
2003-02-25 06:09:29 AM  
To own a full auto gun you have to have a federal license.

Class 4 I think?
2003-02-25 06:10:09 AM  
But when militias hijack these reasonings to justify their ownership of fully automatic weapons then the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Fully automatic weapons have been illegal and strictly prosecuted since the National Firearms Act was passed in 1934.

Thank you, come again.

2003-02-25 06:12:24 AM  
ok, just tested it and THIS ONE SHOULD WORK. copy and paste this to find out about what the asshats did to tommy chong!!,1,11326,00.html
2003-02-25 06:16:11 AM  
If you can point out a logical flaw in any of my arguments, please feel free to do so and I will address them in turn. However, since you can't, you will resort to accusing me of being a klan member and run back to the living room to smoke bonghits in your underwear and think you are committing an act of civil disobedience

Ummm since bonghits are illegal, this is an act of civil disobedience. (I'm assuming you're not talking about tobacco only bonghits)
2003-02-25 06:16:26 AM  
Alot of people are saying, loligo this.

1.) Pot should be legal.
2.) If pot should be legal, materials used for smoking pot should be legal.
3.) Materials used for smoking pot should be legal.
4.) If materials used for smoking pot should be legal, then people shouldn't be arrested for manufacturing then.
5.) People shouldn't be arrested for manufacturing then.

And concluding that people shouldn't be arrested for manufacturing paraphenilia (selling it/whatever). This is an argument. If it's premises are true, it's conclusion is. It's premises are true. So, it's conclusion is. Your arguments use this inference. If X is illegal, then person Y should be punished for X. But thats not true. The people sitting at whites only counters shouldn't of been punished, even though they were in violation of state law. The people escaping concentration camps shouldn't of been rounded up and summilarily shot, but the law was that they were. So, we can have an illegal act that people shouldn't be punished for doing. Manufacturing bongs, if it is even illegal (Debatable), still is not someething someone should recieve punishment for.
2003-02-25 06:22:12 AM  
but I can still go to a gun show and purchase kits to make my "hunting rifle" automatic. I mean, its ok, since I'm obviously a law abiding citizen and would never do such a thing.

But seriously, how can you argue that marijuana is as dangerous as a gun? I understand that the laws must be upheld even when I disagree with them. its funny though, I don't own drug paraphernalia but I grew up with guns. I still think this is a waste of time and resources.

And I saw nothing in Loligo's previous posts that sounded even remotely racist.
2003-02-25 06:22:49 AM  
Ok, i'll try to make this even easier...
Here is the Tommy Chong bust story
2003-02-25 06:27:33 AM  

As I've said, I THINK POT SHOULD BE LEGAL. I think you have every right to put whatever you want in your body, provided you can do so without endangering someone else. I think it should be perfectly legal for you to veg out and do a Simpsons marathon with a big tray of hash brownies. I have no problem with that AT ALL.

However, the point is that currently it is NOT legal, and sitting in your living room smoking a joint is NOT civil disobedience, no matter how noble you think you are.

Comparing Rosa Parks refusing to move to the back of the bus to some pothead giggling at Spongebob while hitting his 18 inch Graphix is insulting to the civil rights movement AT BEST.

Equating some X'ing raver kid to a Jew escaping from Auschwitz is repugnant enough that I'm tempted to abort this post right here, because your moral equivalances are so shot to hell you'll NEVER get it.

But let's give this a try. Smoking pot is not a life or death matter. You are not going to be beaten by a group of Klan members for puffing a doobie in your apartment. You are not going to the gas chambers for eating a couple of grams of mushrooms before the Pink Floyd laser light show. You might get busted if you're dumb enough to do this stuff in public. You might get some community service and a fine. You might even spend the night in jail. If you do it regularly, you might spend a couple of months in county lockup. If you get busted with a LOT, you might even do real time. But nobody's going to kill you just for that.

BESIDES which, comparing the laws in a dictatorial state like Nazi Germany, which nobody beside Der Fuhrer himself could change, to the laws in a republic like the United States, with a full legal mechanism for changing the laws (all cries of "not without a bazillion kajillion trillion dollars!" aside), just undermines your case.

Many people have asked why Ken Lay wasn't prosecuted. If Ken Lay should have been prosecuted, because he violated the law, why shouldn't these people have been prosecuted? They ALSO violated the law. Perhaps you don't like the law, perhaps *I* don't like the law, perhaps the law is outdated and unjust, but the fact remains that it IS the law.

2003-02-25 06:28:30 AM  
Cheech & Chong Get Blunt

Fantastic title!

On another note, I wasn't aware that Rae Dawn Chong was Tommy's daughter. Wow! The things you can learn on Fark.
2003-02-25 06:33:21 AM  
And to throw my two cents in at Loligo: THIS IS NOT RED CHINA, as long as I hurt no one else I should be able to do whatever I please (including buy a bong) the government has no right to prohibit anything like that...
You commie pig!
2003-02-25 06:34:35 AM  
Is she still hot?
2003-02-25 06:35:54 AM  
Ok, now I know where Loligo stands and he seems to make sense. Now I can sleep. I still think comparing pot to guns is to compare apples to oranges. Oranges fasioned out of semtex with little digital clocks in them counting down to zero, but oranges nonetheless!

Don't smoke pot kids or the terrorists have won! And children die!
2003-02-25 06:36:10 AM  
[image from too old to be available]

[image from too old to be available]
2003-02-25 06:38:14 AM  
Loligo: Now you've lost the argument.

How is it okay to compare the legality of guns & drug paraphenelia, but not okay to compare the civil disobedience of civil rights activists & anti-drug prohibition activists?

I think someone else's moral equivalences are shot to hell, because they think that bongs should be put on the same level as silencers.

Talk about not having any consistency in arguments! You biatch at some people here for publicly complaining about guns being too legal, but pot not being legal enough. When you're telling people to compare them to eachother, then to not compare two just as ridiculously mated items.
2003-02-25 06:41:23 AM  
Maybe I shouldn't have said "lost the argument." Sorry. Didn't actually mean that, since there really isn't much of an argument here.

But you should see the hipocrisy in your own words there. And that was really my point. You're as prone as any of us to not be 100% consistent in what you/we complain about.
2003-02-25 06:41:59 AM  
I'm not sure if these guys were part of the raid (they used to offer "smoking acceessories"), but their response to it is brilliant:
2003-02-25 06:43:56 AM  

You honestly think that some kid sitting in the living room playing his PS2 hitting a bong is morally comparable to Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat? You think Tommy Chong is on the same spiritual level as Martin Luther King, Jr? You really think Timothy Leary is as historically significant as Malcolm X?

Spare me.

Regarding guns versus drugs: I clearly outlined the similarities in the arguments, and why I think they're a valid comparison. Go read this one: 02-25-03 05:59:19 AM.

I've never said bongs should be on the same level as silencers. I've said several times that I think pot SHOULD be legal. Go back and read my posts again. I'll wait here.

Unless I go to sleep, which I should have done an hour ago.

2003-02-25 06:44:20 AM  
It's too bad most pot smokers are too mellow to stand up an do something about the "law" against smoking pot.

It was once against the "law" to manufacture or sell alcohol in this country. And now it's not? I wonder why.

Just because there is a "law" against something, doesn't mean that one should have to follow that law if one feels violating that law would be morally just. Heck, it's even "legal" to kill an unborn human baby. Now THERE'S a goofy "law" for you.

I don't smoke pot, but I sure do find some of those bongs and pipes quite a work of art. Now, thanks to Mr. "please drape that work of art behind me so I don't look like more of an ass(croft) than I already am" it will be more difficult for me to purchase said art.
2003-02-25 06:44:37 AM  
So does this mean Fark's gonna lose a sponsor? :(
2003-02-25 06:46:33 AM  
Equating some X'ing raver kid to a Jew escaping from Auschwitz is repugnant enough that I'm tempted to abort this post right here

Groucho Marx (paraphrazing like crazy) asked a women if she'd fark him for a million dollars. She said of course. Next, he asked her if she'd fark him for a buck.

"What the hell do you think I am? A whore?" she said, and I'm assuming she slapped him in the head as she said it.

"We already determined that," said he. "Now we're just negotiting on the price.

farking up innocent lives is wrong, period, whether the law is on your side or not. Hitler was a dollar-whore and Ashcroft charges a million. They're both whores. It's just a matter of scale.
2003-02-25 06:47:20 AM  

My problem with most of the people crying here is that they are NOT activists. They are NOT marching on Washington, they're not writing to their Congressmen, I'd imagine most of them have never even read NORML's web page.

My problem with most of the activists (like NORML) is that they veil their motives under the shroud of "commercial and industrial applications", they talk about hemp textiles and hemp oil and hemp rope, when all they really wanna do is legally get stoned.

2003-02-25 06:48:41 AM  

By your logic, the cop that pulls you over to bust you for speeding is the moral equivalent to Mengele.

That's some fine thinking there.

2003-02-25 06:49:00 AM  
I don't see how anybody can love America. That country, the majority of their populace and certainly their leadership makes me cringe. I'm glad I got the hell out of that dump and would NEVER consider going back there, I value my freedom too much.
2003-02-25 06:49:48 AM  
This would've bothered me 25 years ago, strange it doesn't now.

Things change as you get older, you'll see.
2003-02-25 06:52:01 AM  
Vote Libertarian!

Or quit biatching about how the government does not represent your views. So long as 25% (or less?) of the population controls the elections by actually showing up to vote, you are telling Washington that you are happy with the way things are, or nothing bothers you enough to actually get off your ass and vote to change it.

Loligo, I don't like your analogy (or Ashcroft's). Your point is valid however. So long as its illegal, the government should prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. That is why we have a government. Its there to enforce the laws created by elected officials.

Apathy is what gives Mr. Ashcroft his ticket to do this.
2003-02-25 06:52:02 AM  

I'll never understand people who leave america because they don't love this country. That's pretty lame.

I hear "if you don't love this country, then get out!" a lot, but that's what eejits like that want me to do, instead of staying here and trying to make it a *better* country.
2003-02-25 06:54:42 AM  

Not only do I not love America, but I'm ashamed to call myself American. It makes me want to vomit seeing what America has become.. and If you can think people have the power to change it, then you are clueless.
2003-02-25 06:55:25 AM  
If you don't love America, it is not the country's failure: it's the population's. It's YOURS.

It is the duty of every American to strive to make America into what he or she believes it should be. If you are content to give up and leave when things don't go your way, feel free. We don't need you.

2003-02-25 06:56:25 AM  
Where as I agree with you that the civil disobedience of people toking away in there own home is a ridiculous comparison to those civil disobediences that civil rights activists used in the 60s & 70s.

But you're stupid comparison of silencers to bongs....well, I think I've said enough there without having to incite cries of "troll!"

Just because the comparison - no matter how far of a leap of judgment it is - supports your argument, you jump on it. Should it defer you argument, you slander it - even though it's as ridiculously compared.

Again, I ask: Why aren't you consistent in your arguments? That's all I'm asking for...
2003-02-25 06:56:43 AM  
If you can think people have the power to change it, then you are clueless.

It's exactly that kind of defeatest apathy that has gotten this country into the state you detest.

You were never part of the solution. Enjoy your new life.

2003-02-25 06:58:37 AM  

I wouldn't be there if you paid me. The place is a giant strip mall and trailer park, full of ignorant, shiat for brains people waving their little flags and foaming at the mouth with brainless patriotic fervor at that thought of burning the Consititution and killing more brown people.
2003-02-25 06:58:47 AM  
Pot is illegal. Drug paraphernalia is illegal. Ashcroft may be a somewhat selectively-enforcing right wing prick, but guess what? These places were selling an illegal product. I have never met a person that didn't smoke pot and owned a bong and doubt such people exist. And remember it wasn't just bongs some of these people were selling, but spoons for crack.

This raid doesn't bother me at all, period. Do I like pot and other drugs? No. I don't use them, and I think they're a bad idea. Would I support legalizing pot, however? Yes. Just don't reek of the shiat around me. It stinks to the point of making me nauseous.

So STFU, deal with the raids, and work to legalize it before being all pissy that you can't spend a hundred bucks on a bong that glows in the dark.
2003-02-25 06:59:14 AM  
Er, in the last post.. "defeatist". Stupid keyboard.

But you're stupid comparison of silencers to bongs....

I NEVER ONCE compared silencers to bongs. NEVER. Quote me. Please include the timestamp of the post. Kaythanks.

Again, I ask: Why aren't you consistent in your arguments?

I am entirely consistent in my arguments. I even provided a pointer to a post demonstrating why the guns/drugs comparison is valid. I'm still waiting for you to refute it (hint: the word "silencer" doesn't appear anywhere in the post).

2003-02-25 07:01:09 AM  
As an Independent Right Wing Conservative...

I believe this is total B.S. The government

has no right to keep you from using drugs.

(esp. grass) I'm a Bush supporter, but I part

ways on this ...big time.
2003-02-25 07:03:26 AM  

Then maybe the law should be readdressed? Does America really need millions more non-violent offenders in jail? Really, what % of the American population is in prison or has been in prison? It's insane. The priorities of the country are hell and gone out of wack. It's not about helping the world and being a shining example of democracy, for the people and of the people.. it's not about giving and bettering the lives of everybody in America, it's about enacting asinine puritanical laws, punishing people for living peaceful lives and dominating and intimidating the world.

America and it's citizens should be ashamed of what they have become.
2003-02-25 07:04:09 AM  
"They are as much a part of drug trafficking as silencers are a part of criminal homicide."
-John Brown, acting DEA chief.
2003-02-25 07:05:05 AM  
I think you folks screaming about it being illegal are not interpreting the law correctly, nor is asshat AG. A "water pipe" can be used for MANY legal things, such as herbal smoking mixtures.... Asshat AG is just forwarding his right wing agenda. He is a fvckhead.
2003-02-25 07:05:41 AM  
Ah, the heck with all this bong-making raiding of shops.. I, personally, can't WAIT for the day the democrats take control and outlaw owning a gun.

Now THAT'S a rebellion I'd love to see happen.
2003-02-25 07:06:43 AM  
Gryn there are no democrats that want to take your gun away. Name 1.
2003-02-25 07:06:51 AM  
He can have my bong when he prys it from my cold dead hands.
2003-02-25 07:07:37 AM  

Diane Feinstein.


2003-02-25 07:08:27 AM  
I hate John Asscroft.
2003-02-25 07:08:33 AM  
SHe does not want to take your gun loligo. She wants more enforcment of exisiting laws, not to take your gun. Way to try and spin it though. Typical right wing bullshiAt!
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