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(Yahoo)   Botched transplant victim pronounced brain dead   ( divider line
    More: Followup  
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7082 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2003 at 5:50 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2003-02-23 12:35:30 AM  

Answer the question.
2003-02-23 12:37:24 AM  

Same request. Answer the question.
2003-02-23 12:39:05 AM  
"Sswift, I don't have the right to be selfish?"

To the point where it costs people their lives? No.

Are you allowed to be a drug dealer? That's pretty selfish. You'd make a lot of money at that. Oh wait, no you're not. That harms children.
2003-02-23 12:39:59 AM  
Down, Psycho_Jay, down!
2003-02-23 12:44:59 AM  
Psycho: did the guy who reads the posts to you also give you that name?
2003-02-23 12:45:52 AM  
Hey I just got this great idea!

We could massively increase the amount of organ donations by doing one of two things:

A) Paying the family of the person who chose to donate the organs for each organ donated.


B) Offering to cryogenically freeze the head/remainder of the body of anyone who donates organs.

I mean why not? It would be great if in exchange for donating my organs I would be given the possiblity for a new lease on life down the road if/when science advances to the point where they can repair damage from freezing someone cryogenically and grow organs. That would be a huge incentive.

And people wouldn't have to pay life insurance if their families were paid if they donated their organs.
2003-02-23 12:46:55 AM  
Hey, Sswift, would you care to comment on my posts made about an hour or so ago on your opinion about borders?

I'll copy and paste the whole thing so you don't have to scroll up (Once again, see? I'm not a heartless bastard! Honest!)

02-22-03 09:24:38 PM Magic
Gee, Sswift, I think I'll just sneak into your house through an unlocked window and eat some of your food, watch your TV, and use your phone for a few years. After all, you're ok with people coming and going freely, right?

And don't try to say 'THAT'S DIFFERENT!', because it isn't.

02-22-03 09:26:22 PM Magic
Oh yeah, and I'll urinate and defecate in your sink, instead of in the toilet, because it's my preference.

the toilet = your toilet
(I'd like to add something to the last one)

It may not be what you are accustomed to, but, hey! I'm allowed to do what I feel comfortable with, right?
2003-02-23 12:47:02 AM  
Although life support may 'ruin' some organs, there are still a lot of viable things in the human body. Tissues, bone marrow, blood, corneas.
2003-02-23 12:48:15 AM  
Oh, btw, Sswift, you forgot the /sarcasm tag at the end....
2003-02-23 12:50:37 AM  
You guys need to realize that she was having a LUNG -and-HEART transplant. I had a friend who was just having a Lung transplant (and not even both of them, mind you) and he died during the surgery. This girl probably wouldn't have lived even if they had the right organs to begin with, and she was extremely lucky even to have a chance since she's an illegal immigrant (well, Governer Easley or Jesse Helms or someone granted her family amnesty or something in North Carolina--so techniquely they get all the benefits of citizenship, at least in North Carolina) and had no means of paying for it (half was being PAID by Duke hospital and the other half was paid by that organization that puts paper ballons with dying children names on them in supermarkets).
The doctors did all they could--if you want to blame someone, blame the media for making it sound like the doctor's were out to kill her.

And if you want to know something else interesting, a few years back Duke hospital layed off all of their veteran ER doctors because they didn't graduate from top-notch schools (even though most of the guys they layed off were in the business 10-20 years). And they filled up the empty spots with college grads from Ivy league schools, and of course Duke University.

If you'd also like to know something else interesting, the family of this girl is suing Duke Hospital, which shocks me considering she would have been dead even earlier if they didn't take in her in. And it's also shocking because like I said before Duke paid half of the fees for the procedure since these guys didn't have any insurance or money.

So basically, that tells you to let poor illegal immigrants to die if they're sick. And I bet John Edwards takes up this case in the name of his shiny teeth.
2003-02-23 12:54:47 AM  
Sswift, seriously, I hope you're being sarcastic with that post about organ donor payment. It's called organ DONATION for a reason. It isn't organ trade or organ selling. If you wanna freeze your head or your ass or whatever, you can do so, it'll cost an arm and a leg for the procedure and the storage/care, but what the hell! And paying the family for donated organs? Yeah, nice idea. But it won't happen.

Also, I honestly can't believe that someone preaching the side of the argument that is happy this girl was snuck into the country so she could recieve the best possible medical care, would think to suggest INCENTIVE for donating organs beyond it just being a good thing to do! I mean, Christ! I'm fifteen and I've decided to donate my organs when I die, for no other reason than it is a good thing to do!
2003-02-23 12:57:18 AM  

I know it's been said before, but...well, I'll say it again. Duke sucks. And that is a word that I never, ever use. I don't blame the doctors so much; they were working with what they were given, and they were given the wrong organs. Now the administrators who screwed up deserve to pay through the nose, and then be taken out and shot, and have their organs harvested.

I've noticed, as this story has made the rounds on Fark, a number of people saying something about how this kind of screwup isn't that surprising at the Duke University hospital. Am I correct in so understanding?

Ah, well. Glad I don't go to Duke.

Actually, Duke Mayo Clinic is one of the best in the nation--this was just a fluke. I mean, have you heard of any other screw ups from Duke hospital? Don't think so.
And, I do believe that the hospital is not completely tied in with the school--as in the school does not own the hospital or what not. They just share the same name and share the same peons who go in and out of there.
2003-02-23 12:59:49 AM  
I see all caps posters, and I can make a few s'mores from the flames all the way from Mexico.

Yep, you read that right folks. I'm from Mexico. Not Guadalajara, buut I have dual-nationalities, which would make me eligible for hospital care in the states and in mexico.

Now, I try not to take personally what a bunch of gringos say about illegal immigrants. Silly gringos (not all of you though), you need to find out a few things before posting your ignorant posts.

1) Immigration is one of the few perks of living next to a third world country. Just ask Spain.

2) The girl didn't ask for this transplant to be taken away from an american kid.

3) Those organs would have been used on a PERSON, anyway, regardless of nationality.

4) Duke sucks.

5) Take it easy when bashing the immigrants. Someday we'll take over your country. Heck, we already took over L.A. (second biggest mexican city after Mexico DF, which is the biggest farking city in the world). Immigrants pick your grapes, harvest your fruits and work hard. There are many many americans who work as hard if not harder than mexicans.

My condolences to the family.
2003-02-23 01:06:49 AM  
AP report in the Washington Post:

"He said the family declined to donate any organs from Jesica's body, including the heart and lungs that had been donated to her in an operation Thursday."

There is a word for people like that. Despicable. Lets hope they die on the way back to Mexico. If you do make it back across the border don't let the door hit you in the ass you repugnant, ungrateful pieces of shiat.
2003-02-23 01:08:35 AM  
Pyscho_Jay: OK, I'll answer the question. I didn't want to, because I don't like to get too deeply involved in flame wars (and because I shouldn't have responded in the first place). I would not be upset if this girl received organs that my own child could have received. She has as much right to live and to receive a transplant as anyone else. I don't object to her parents coming illegally into this country to get her medical care because they knew that that was the only option she had that gave her even the ghost of a chance. It was sheer bad luck that they chose the hospital that they did.

So the short answer is no, I would not object if she received organs that could have saved my child. The same could be true of anyone else.

"Flame on, Macduff!
And farked be he that first cries 'Hold, enough!"

(Sorry, sorry. I just couldn't resist tweaking a little Shakespeare there.)
2003-02-23 01:08:46 AM  
Well I see Fb- is back and trolling (though you have some good points there). :)

I too think Americans should have priority. Now get this: my dad had been on a priority list for a heart transplant. He waited and waited. Eventually other things went wrong with him and ironically because he developed these other problems it made him no longer eligible to be a recipient! WTF?

He died July 23, 2000. Right in front of me and my husband. We were sitting at the table with him. I had to call 911.
2003-02-23 01:11:53 AM  
But could the heart and lungs that she was donated be reused? I don't know enough about biology to comment. Would they still be usable? Or would they have undergone too much trauma?
2003-02-23 01:17:47 AM  
Chonny69 "Now, I try not to take personally what a bunch of gringos say about illegal immigrants."

You, sir, are a racist. Gringo? have I ever used a racist term? I have said time and again that race is not important to me. Legal Immigrants are the backbone of this country. Illegal Immigrants are a cancer, no matter what their race.

You're calling me a gringo. I invoke Godwin, and I ask Drew to add a filter akin to the "attractive and successful African American" filter that is already in place.
2003-02-23 01:24:12 AM  
hmmmmm....let's see if I got this right.....illegal alien comes into this country, needs a heart and lung transplant, they fark up the first one...thank god they had a spare heart and lung kit on standby...she gets pronounced brain dead, and yet my father still can't make it to the top of the list. hmmmmmm.....fark everyone one of you farking assholes.
2003-02-23 01:26:12 AM  
packing my bags and moving my father to mexico where I can then turn around and bring him back into this farked up country, but, got the best hearts and lungs anywhere. People swim for miles to get them.

farking die.
2003-02-23 01:27:46 AM  
RangerBob: try posting without the mescaline. You might make a little sense.
2003-02-23 01:28:34 AM  
Gojira, doncha love how ethnic-not-so-minor-minorities are so quick to pull the race card when offended, yet sit around and talk about the 'goddamn crackers', or other similar racial slur? I mean, after all, it's only TRULY offensive if the guy being offended isn't white, right?
2003-02-23 01:28:40 AM  
Chonny69: What point are you trying to make aside from proclaiming that you are another racist piece of crud that needs to think before they post?
Take that crap elsewhere.
2003-02-23 01:29:23 AM  
RangerBob: Read my premier post on this thread. I know how you feel.

premier=French for first. France surrenders...and Duke FARKING BLOWS
2003-02-23 01:30:02 AM  
See the post right below (thanks for the proof, Camarugala!) my previous one for a nice little example!
2003-02-23 01:31:19 AM  
"You, sir, are a racist. Gringo? have I ever used a racist term? I have said time and again that race is not important to me. Legal Immigrants are the backbone of this country. Illegal Immigrants are a cancer, no matter what their race."

Ah well. I forgot to mention that I am also an American. And "Gringo" isn't a racist term. It is supposed to be derogotory (sp?) term indicating that someone is from the United States. Now, there are many, many cultural backgrounds in the USA (I avoid using the term race, because that in itself is... well, there are no such thing as races. That's another flamewar in itself.)

Anyway, "gringo" is used casually by Mexicans and by Gringos themselves! There isn't anything wrong with that. A gringo can be of african, mexican-american, asian, or caucasian descendence.

Swallow your pride a little. ;)
2003-02-23 01:31:24 AM  
Wait, wait, wait, mods, please delete that previous post, it makes me look like an idiot (and rightfully so). Forgive my lack of thinking, Camarugala, and please accept my most sincere apologies.
2003-02-23 01:32:32 AM  
Oh, God, I'm so emberrassed.....
2003-02-23 01:33:18 AM  
Magic: yea. I'm a big proponent for harmony (I'm sure that will get a big laugh from the radical libs). It pisses me off when a Cracker or Gringo gets thrown, more because I know there are people more intollerant than I that will get completely incensed by that. I'd really rather none of us had to "go there".

RangerBob: I think I've made some sense of your posts now. I hope your father gets what he needs, if I'm reading you correctly.
2003-02-23 01:35:31 AM  
oh c'mon. i didn't know you guys were so sensitive about the word gringo.

2003-02-23 01:36:56 AM  
"It is supposed to be derogotory"
That is the problem. It is derogatory,
Look up the word nimrod....
2003-02-23 01:39:06 AM  
"Anyway, "gringo" is used casually by Mexicans and by Gringos themselves! There isn't anything wrong with that. A gringo can be of african, mexican-american, asian, or caucasian descendence"

Just like the "n" word is used casually by african americans and caucasians alike, right?

It's a derogeratory term. It should be treated exactly the same as the equivalent terms used against African Americans and Hispanic Americans.

No, I won't swallow my pride a little. If I used one of those terms in my professional life, I would get fired. If those terms are not acceptable in polite society, neither is "gringo".

I understand fully what the intent was, and I am no more beholden to "accept" it than a black man is to "accept" having the "n" word bandied about, or a hispanic man is to have one of the many colorful terms used by racists agains his ilk bandied about.
2003-02-23 01:39:28 AM  
emphasis on supposed.
as an american, i can say it's not.

i'm not a wuss. i'm pissed off that there's ragging on immigrants.
2003-02-23 01:41:04 AM  
Magic: No problem man, it happens. I'm just curious though. What part of my post did you read to quickly? ;)
2003-02-23 01:41:43 AM  

Hmm I don't know about all you people but I have never heard that "gringo" is an ethnic slur. It isn't like calling you a cracker. It means white man. If you as a white man or woman are offended by the use of the word gringo then it is probably because it has never been said to you in a positive light. But it isn't a slur. Like any word it can be used in a negative manner if the right tone is behind it. Sort of like my dad used to tell me I shouldn't date a moreno.

I am attending school with a bunch of fellow latinos and my white boyfriend walks in, my friends go "When did you start dating the gringo", same as if he were black "When did you start dating the moreno?". It is a description for color. Gringo meaning white man. And moreno meaning black man.

But in the case of my father, he uses the word to describe a black man and with his tone of voice you can hear his disgust. That does not make the word moreno an ethnic slur. Just makes my father an asshole.

It is a word latinos and other hispanics use to describe a white person. It isn't meant as an insult. It would just seem that we don't ever have anything nice to say about the white man where a lot of us are from. So when you hear gringo you must automatically assume it means something more than what it is. But it doesn't. Just means white man.

It isn't the same thing as n*gger. Contrary to what some may think gringo only sounds like an insult because people have used it with such disdain that non-hispanics have taken it to be an insult. That is mostly because in other countries a white man coming into your town doesn't usually strike up anything but disdain in a person for obvious reasons and sometimes less than obvious reasons. And in the US, well the gringo is usually law enforcement or immigration or the landlord and so on.

But just to clarify the definition and use of gringo. It is no different than saying white person or hispanic person.

Then again that may have just been how I was brought up. Words can change meaning. This may be one that could be doing that as well.
2003-02-23 01:42:18 AM  
it's not a race term.
it's a political term.

gringo : united states citizen :: canuck : canadian citizen.

2003-02-23 01:42:19 AM  
sorry..I meant to say..turn around and bring him back into this farked up country so he can get free....emphasis on free....medical treatment. I hate to sound so bitter...but Jesus Christ, America is the best country that anyone has ever stolen...and instead of helping the people who pay taxes and work hard, we go out of our way to help people who will, and I will burn in hell for this one, take advantage of the system and go back to Mexico...only to come back next year with a different name and a different stolen social security number, while the my father...who fought in wars to defend this country....lie dying. And why???? Because he is veteran....and VA hospitals let you lie in beds until you die. So....if you will excuse me, I am going to continue packing our belongings and get in the car and head across the border. Come morning....I am a Mexican. Then I can live the American dream. Sleep well, children.
2003-02-23 01:43:59 AM  
SunnyGirl: do you know the origin of the word "Gringo?" Look it up. It's EXACTLY the same as the N word. It was started as a racial slur against Americans during the Spanish American war.

"Green grow, the rushes grow."
2003-02-23 01:45:04 AM anticipation of all the flamers....

No Hablo Englais.
2003-02-23 01:46:59 AM  
"right." As though you are above the discussion
"emphasis on supposed." Note sudden use of HTML italics
"as an american, i can say it's not."Good, your an American, you can call yourself gringo until the cows come home. That, however is where it should cease.
2003-02-23 01:47:40 AM  

ok, I can see where you're coming from. let's invoke history a little to keep the flames growing. being from mexico and having studied both mexican and american history, the word gringo was started as a term describing the invading american soliders in mexico. how did it start? the mexicans, picking up the little english they knew said... "Green Go!" They wanted them out.

now, you can insist it's a race thing for flame's sake, or we can chill out a bit.
2003-02-23 01:51:33 AM  
02-23-03 01:42:18 AM Chonny69
it's not a race term.
it's a political term.

gringo : united states citizen :: canuck : canadian citizen.


Are you trying to bury yourself? And by the way, you know nothing of politics. Your statements prove that again and again.
2003-02-23 01:53:06 AM  
Chonny: the point is, I object to the term gringo the same as others might object to words they term offensive. The origin or intent isn't any more important than if I inocently said to an African American coworker "represent, my (n-word)" trying to be funny. I would get fired. I find the term gringo to be racist and offensive. The historical context of "we didnt' want you here so we called you a name" is interesting, but irrelevant.

I hold no animosity toward you, and I do not mean any of this as a flame. I simply believe that it is as inappropriate a term to use as any other derogratory, racially motivated slur.
2003-02-23 01:53:25 AM  
um... your point being?
if i'm an american, and i'm invoking my american status, and i am not offended, i can safely say that no other americans will be offended. that's a narrow, but logical point of view. if you are offended as an american... don't be. this is pretty much the whole point.

see, this is just a huge misunderstanding.
sunnygirl recognized gringo as a harmless term, however we come from different backgrounds. i have heard the word grindo used in mexico, she has heard it used in the states.

gringo : united states citizen :: canuck : canadian citizen
2003-02-23 01:54:34 AM  
It's not really the words that matter(gringo is used for white person like N for black people where I grew up /shrug) its how it's said and how candy ass the person who hears it is. I could walk upto someone and chat with them and throw in N and not mean anything by it but people get offended. Hell I call my friends cousin a dumb N all the time and doesn't bother him one bit, but he also calls me a Cracker so I dunno I guess my point is nothing....People need to take things more litely imo, if words hurt you, maybe you should go over to france...
2003-02-23 01:55:05 AM  

Actually, I do know the origins of the word, thank you. And you are mistaken.

The whole story of the song "Green Gros" and so on is considered to be no more than a nice urban story among linguistics and etymologists. It was a word that has been documented long before the war.

The word is believed to be derived from the root for Greek, and means one who speaks Spanish with an accent. Meaning the spanish word griego. I happen to study etymology.

I was just telling my side, my point of view. I have never seen anyone be offended by being called a gringo before. Where I am from, that is normal. The white man is a gringo. Nothing offensive. Maybe in places like Mexico it may be different but in Puerto Rico and other countries it isn't like that at all.

A small lesson on the spanish lanuage. What is so in one hispanic country is not always so in another. Gringo may be a word used to insult white men in Mexico but that doesn't mean that overall it means exactly that.
2003-02-23 01:56:06 AM  
"if i'm an american, and i'm invoking my american status, and i am not offended, i can safely say that no other americans will be offended."

You do not speak for me. I am offended.
2003-02-23 01:57:17 AM  
I meant to add, now I learned something new. I will use the word gringo from now with more caution.
2003-02-23 01:58:57 AM  
bury myself? i might not know diddly squat about politics.
i know my stuff on language. especially spanish.
my point. gringo is supposed to be a political term indicating someone's status as an american citizen. it is used in the same way as americans use the word "canuck" to indicate someone is from canada. obviously you didn't understand the analogy.

if gringo isn't your word regardless of my futile attempts to enlighten you... what can i say?

"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"
2003-02-23 01:59:26 AM  
My Venezuelan roommate and other friends from Central America used to call me Gringo all the time. No biggee. It was affectionate. They also had another fun little name for me...Cabeza de Mierta...I'm not sure how that translates.
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