What a crummy starting roster; can we give the selections back to the managers, please?

bubbaprog: Yes, and with that 4+ ERA he certainly deserved it.

Did you notice that in the same number of games pitched, Roger Clemens only won 18 more games than Wakefield. He was a whole 4% better on the number that really matters, wins.

Congrats Wake. You earned it.

/gets off his lawn

mediablitz: bubbaprog: Yes, and with that 4+ ERA he certainly deserved it.

Did you notice that in the same number of games pitched, Roger Clemens only won 18 more games than Wakefield. He was a whole 4% better on the number that really matters, wins.

Wakefield is on pace to win 20 games at the All-Star break. Seems pretty straightforward that he should be an All-Star.

mediablitz: He was a whole 4% better on the number that really matters, wins.

jsindal: Wakefield is on pace to win 20 games at the All-Star break.

Wins are overrated, as they depend largely on your offense, which a pitcher has no control over.

The year that Clemens deserved the Cy Young more than any other (cheating aside) was that year he had a ridiculous 1.something ERA, and he didn't because his offense was absolute crap, which was total BS.

That being said it's cool seeing Wake an all-star... need moar knuckleballers.

I still can't believe Josh Hamilton is starting...wtf

bubbaprog: Yes, and with that 4+ ERA he certainly deserved it.

Knuckleballers are like that though. The saying is, it either dances over the plate, or prances over the fence. When they are on, they are unhittable, when they are off, its like playing softball.

Also, Brandon Inge should have made the squad.
/Off to vote more

Mister Awesome: I still can't believe Josh Hamilton is starting...wtf

BUT HE OVERCAME DRUG ADDICTION MAN. AND HIT A BUNCH OF HOMERS OFF 70 MPH BATTING PRACTICE PITCHES IN AN EXHIBITION. DRUG ADDICTION MAN. THAT'S DEEP AND SHIAT.

Oh wait, I have to correct myself. Josh Hamilton didn't overcome drug addiction... Jesus Christ overcame drug addiction for him.

I don't think Wakefield's selection was more on what he's done this year, but how consistent he's been for, what now, 10+ years or so....wait, I was going somewhere with this, but just looking up his stats (here (new window)), I don't get it. What's wrong is the fact that Hamilton was voted as a starter (not bad) but plans to start after not playing a good chunk of games leading up to the ASG (bad). I haven't yet heard if Ibanez will do the same, and thank God Beltran can't play. I just don't think your first "rehab" assignment from the DL should be the ASG. Other than that, the right guys got in overall, but you can argue who should start or who should sit.

Mister Awesome: I still can't believe Josh Hamilton is starting...wtf

agreed. I hate that fans get to choose the starters, especially since the game determines home field advantage. The most popular player =/= the best player.

jsindal: mediablitz: bubbaprog: Yes, and with that 4+ ERA he certainly deserved it.

Did you notice that in the same number of games pitched, Roger Clemens only won 18 more games than Wakefield. He was a whole 4% better on the number that really matters, wins.

Wakefield is on pace to win 20 games at the All-Star break. Seems pretty straightforward that he should be an All-Star.

Did you know that wins is the most God-awful, useless, overblown, meaningless stat to rate pitchers by ever?

Wakefield on Boston = Undeserving All-Star
Wakefield on Kansas City = Deserving Non-selection.

Wins are mostly a function of the offense on your team, which a pitcher has no control over.

Players not selected to the AL All-Star team with better ERAs this season than Wakefield: Milwood, Blackburn, Weaver, Braden, Washburn, Garza, Lee, Shields, Bergeson, Richmond, Danks, Burnett, Sabathia, Bannister, Chamberlain, Feldman, Niedmann, Porcello, Lester, Meche, and Pettite.

Is ERA perfect? No, I am well-aware of the flaws. But I'm dealing with idiots who think "wins" as a stat to rate pitchers means something - you can't make chardonnay out of shiat.

RogueViking: Is ERA perfect? No, I am well-aware of the flaws. But I'm dealing with idiots who think "wins" as a stat to rate pitchers means something - you can't make chardonnay out of shiat.

Let me know when ERA wins a World Series game. "We lost 1-0, but look at that ERA"!

Baseball stat douchebags are always fat.

RogueViking: Is ERA perfect? No, I am well-aware of the flaws. But I'm dealing with idiots who think "wins" as a stat to rate pitchers means something - you can't make chardonnay out of shiat.

Ya. Edwin Jackson has the second lowest ERA in the league... yet, he has something like 5 wins and 4 loses because he gets absolutely no run support. None. Good to see that Madden gave him some props, even though that had to hurt a bit, seeings how they traded him to Detroit for a minor leaguer who is probably never going to be more than a 4th outfielder.

mediablitz: RogueViking: Is ERA perfect? No, I am well-aware of the flaws. But I'm dealing with idiots who think "wins" as a stat to rate pitchers means something - you can't make chardonnay out of shiat.

Let me know when ERA wins a World Series game. "We lost 1-0, but look at that ERA"!

Baseball stat douchebags are always fat.

Let me know when any pitcher ever wins a World Series game independent of all other players on the team. That is, the pitcher makes every pitch, fields every ball, scores and drives in every run. Because wins is a team stat. When evaluating individual performances, using a team stat is absurd. It'd be like giving whatever shortstop played in the game when the team gained its last lead a "win" and then claiming that the shortstop with the most "wins" was the best shortstop in the game.

/It would so be David Eckstein

It must be really hard to pitch off of a Hoveround.

Wins are overrated, but he deserved it in '95, he had an awesome WHIP last year, and he's been an above-average pitcher for many, many years - he's almost to 200 career wins. As a sox fan, I'm glad to see him go, and it's not like veterans haven't won all-star appearances they haven't deserved before.

/Besides, knuckleballs rule.

Rustybumperjack: It must be really hard to pitch off of a Hoveround.

Yes, everyone who chooses to think about baseball intelligently is immobile. None of them, in fact, are currently playing the game and have a better ERA than Wakefield. Oh, wait, no, there's Brian Bannister (new window). There's also Ross Ohlendorf (new window). And nobody has ever tried running a team by these same intelligent principles. Oh, wait. They have. (new window)

Man, I'm so old I remember Wakefield with the Pirates.

mediablitz: Let me know when ERA wins a World Series game. "We lost 1-0, but look at that ERA"!

let me know when a pitcher wins a world series without any run support....

You can get more upset about the choice, but all we're talking about is an exhibition game really. A game that doesn't really count, except it "does". Besides, if Wakefield ends up blowing it for the AL, whoever wins that pennant should be a good enough team to get over it when they play the World Series. Worked in '08 and '06.



\Practice??
\\We're talking about practice??
\\\hot like a STL summer

Rustybumperjack: It must be really hard to pitch off of a Hoveround.

Ask Jamie Moyer.

let bill james and the fans pick the rosters- the managers decides who starts only

Too late to vote Aaron Boone to the National League team?

/Wakefield seems like a good guy-- I'm happy for him.

I've been reading a lot lately how wins are an incredibly effective measure of a pitcher's worth. Given this FACT, combined with the FACT that Wake is on pace to win 20 games, means he DESERVES this selection

HaywoodJablonski: I've been reading a lot lately how wins are an incredibly effective measure of a pitcher's worth. Given this FACT, combined with the FACT that Wake is on pace to win 20 games, means he DESERVES this selection

What you've been reading is wrong.

If it's a Lifetime Achievement Award for Being Above Average and a Generally Swell Guy, then you could say he deserves it.

As an All-Star...eh, there have been worse. But yeah, doesn't deserve it based on Wins, the dumbest stat since Saves.

Does Wake deserve to be picked for the All-Star game? Probably not... but I'm glad to see he got picked, nevertheless.

mjoven1975: HaywoodJablonski: I've been reading a lot lately how wins are an incredibly effective measure of a pitcher's worth. Given this FACT, combined with the FACT that Wake is on pace to win 20 games, means he DESERVES this selection

Was it this book?

I actually own that book. I have it on my shelf of baseball retardation, along with Covering the Bases and The Tim McCarver Book with the insanely long title.

Baseball for Dummies & the TMC book are surprisingly sane. Not smart, but sane. Covering the Bases is the worst thing I've ever read in my entire life, and I think it made me stupider.

Highly recommended!

RogueViking: HaywoodJablonski: I've been reading a lot lately how wins are an incredibly effective measure of a pitcher's worth. Given this FACT, combined with the FACT that Wake is on pace to win 20 games, means he DESERVES this selection

What you've been reading is wrong.

Impossible. My sources are all 50-year veterans of the Elias Sports Bureau and boast PHDs in statistics and are actuaries. Two of them invented a rotisserie baseball league in 1950 but aborted the mission because "it will never catch on."

Of COURSE wins are THE most important stat. If a pitcher does their job properly, they will strike out EVERYONE, and thus NO RUNS are scored. Anything less leaves the game up for grabs, and once you have FAILED at your job, YOU can't complain about the results. THEREFORE the WINNINGIST pitcher HAS to be the BEST pitcher/

Idiots.

FriarReb98: None of it will matter at the end of the year if Wake doesn't have another ring.

Which, of course, is why Ted Williams is the greatest player to never be elected to the hall of fame.

Man I forgot those things were called Hoverrounds and was sitting here trying to picture what the fark everyone was talking about. Like robot hovercraft baseball or something. That Varitek selection last year was ridiculous, too. Funny how he has sorta bounced back this year, but absurd at the time. I think the players voted for him, though, which I respect a bit more than the fans vote (because "fans" are often stupid)

What's shocking is that the AL Starting Lineup only has four New Boston YankSox. Maybe the backlash has finally taken hold.

HaywoodJablonski: RogueViking: HaywoodJablonski: I've been reading a lot lately how wins are an incredibly effective measure of a pitcher's worth. Given this FACT, combined with the FACT that Wake is on pace to win 20 games, means he DESERVES this selection

What you've been reading is wrong.

Impossible. My sources are all 50-year veterans of the Elias Sports Bureau and boast PHDs in statistics and are actuaries. Two of them invented a rotisserie baseball league in 1950 but aborted the mission because "it will never catch on."

Your sarcasm was incredibly wasted on those poor guys who didn't catch the joke the first time around.

Lost Thought 00 gets it, though. And I do too. Well played, sir.

And Wake totally deserves it, Haren, Jackson, Garza, etc etc can all get their turn when they turn 42.

I wish we could have a whole team of Albert Pujols. Now that would be an all-star team everyone could agree with!

/even pitchers!

It's nice to see Wake get the pick, honestly it's just a nod given to him for a great career in the MLB. And it's just an exhibition game that has like 10+ pitchers assigned to it per side. He'll pitch to a couple batters he has a good ERA against and then take a bow.

A well-deserved bow.

/loves watching knuckleballers, especially the middle-aged variety, getting the rookies to strike out watching.

jimpoz 2009-07-05 09:13:14 PM Man, I'm so old I remember Wakefield with the Pirates.
=======================================

Heh, he was with the pirates? Certainly doesn't surprise me though.

Almnost everyone that is half-decent was at one point on the pirates. We are the AAAA of the majors :)

Mister Awesome: I wish we could have a whole team of Albert Pujols. Now that would be an all-star team everyone could agree with!

/even pitchers!

But could Pujols take Pujols deep? If Pujols was a pitcher, wouldn't that be the talent on the likes of Ryan's fastball, Koufax's curve, Maddux's control, and Gibson's competitve fire?

/not even Ditka could make it through Hurricane Pujols
//but a team of mini-Ditkas??

DeWayne Mann: mjoven1975: HaywoodJablonski: I've been reading a lot lately how wins are an incredibly effective measure of a pitcher's worth. Given this FACT, combined with the FACT that Wake is on pace to win 20 games, means he DESERVES this selection

Was it this book?

I actually own that book. I have it on my shelf of baseball retardation, along with Covering the Bases and The Tim McCarver Book with the insanely long title.

Baseball for Dummies & the TMC book are surprisingly sane. Not smart, but sane. Covering the Bases is the worst thing I've ever read in my entire life, and I think it made me stupider.

Highly recommended!

Surprisingly detailed and interesting? Keith Hernandez and Mike Bryan's Pure Baseball (new window).

SnatchMcGillicudy: But could Pujols take Pujols deep? If Pujols was a pitcher, wouldn't that be the talent on the likes of Ryan's fastball, Koufax's curve, Maddux's control, and Gibson's competitve fire?

Great. Now there is no way I'm falling asleep pondering this

I'm happy to see Wakefield finally get his All-Star selection. Hell, he's competing against Cy Young and Rodger Clemens for the Red Sox Records and he's on pace to pass at least one of them this year. The guy has paid his dues and at least deserves to pitch a bit against the best the NL has to offer.