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(Boston Globe)   Montgomery, AL State Supreme Court Chief Justice denies request for atheist monument near display of Ten Commandments in lobby of state judicial building   (boston.com) divider line 119
    More: Ironic  
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1467 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Sep 2001 at 4:10 PM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-09-10 04:15:23 PM  
And..... weeeee!
 
2001-09-10 04:19:51 PM  
How about a tombstone with the epitaph:
"All dressed up and no where to go".
 
2001-09-10 04:22:20 PM  
The Ten Commandments will be taken down. The delay is due to the fact that it isn't clear that the Constitution applies to Alabama.

Shows how dumb judges can be: The Ten Commandments did not inspire the Constitution of the United States.
 
2001-09-10 04:24:20 PM  
Hmmmm, isn't the concept that athiesm = enlightenment just as dogmatic as that of Christian = enlightenment? Pot. Kettle. Black.
 
2001-09-10 04:30:04 PM  
Perhaps they should get rid of the statues and put up one relating to agnosticism.

That is all.
 
2001-09-10 04:31:00 PM  
This isn't "ironic"; it should have the tag that says "obvious".
 
2001-09-10 04:32:32 PM  
Darby said the sculpture would have served as a counterpoint to the Ten Commandments monument and "to remind visitors that our American judicial system and government were forged from Enlightenment thinking.''

did he mean to use an adjective?
 
2001-09-10 04:34:57 PM  
He wants to use the corporate logo of American Atheists Inc.? I'm not expert of church vs. state matters, but isn't that a pretty big no-no, to use a corporate logo as a political symbol?

How to confuse a liberal: What's worse, religion or business?
 
2001-09-10 04:35:43 PM  
I'm sorry, I fell asleep reading the article description
 
2001-09-10 04:37:33 PM  
Woody, why pick the lesser of two evils? Just say Scientology and you can have both!

3Horn
 
2001-09-10 04:37:33 PM  
This is so illegal it hurts.
 
2001-09-10 04:42:09 PM  
Remove it. I don't care what it states, it's basis and background is religion. State + Religion = Bad.

First they burn books, then they burn people.
 
2001-09-10 04:44:21 PM  
I believe the Jefferson quote the judge has posted is,
"Boy, I do love to fark them darkies!"
 
2001-09-10 04:46:17 PM  
Churchs are as corporate as American Atheists.
 
2001-09-10 04:47:24 PM  
See, that's the problem with allowing stuff like this in an "official" capacity... then you have to allow any opposing views along with it... if you don't then you are discriminating.

The easiest solution is to keep it out of the situation to begin with. End of problem.
 
2001-09-10 04:53:27 PM  
I think that they should put up a statue of a Judge squarly kicking a citizen in the groin. This would be a good symbol of how todays judicial systme works
 
2001-09-10 04:55:12 PM  
test
 
2001-09-10 04:58:44 PM  
So now that American Atheists have gone through the formalities, they can sue the pants off the state. Expect a "To Be Continued".

Whee!
 
2001-09-10 05:05:27 PM  
I agree with Demosthenes. The minute the judge allowed the 10 Commandments, he stepped onto the slippery slope. Now he's got to run on it just to stay in place.

Funny - I always associated the Enlightenment with rationalism and empiricism.
 
2001-09-10 05:26:27 PM  
But, really, what did they expect? Of course it would be denied. It's just a launching pad for an appeal to get it removed... which in itself is a good thing, but the indirect approach is questionable.
 
2001-09-10 05:29:13 PM  
Ironic? More like Obvious.
 
2001-09-10 05:36:11 PM  
Is nothing sacred?
 
2001-09-10 05:39:16 PM  
Judge Roy More-holier-than-thou is a good example of your typical fundamentalist christian down here. Obviously he had to have some backing to get into the Chief Justice seat. Just shows you how many farking morons there are around here. I'm sure the ACLU will start riding him again about this crap. At least there are some sane people in this country.

I think the county I'm in (Madison County) should be the second example of a county seceding from the state to form it's own state. In the civil war, Winston County, AL, withdrew from the state to become the Free State of Winston. I don't believe they were ever officially recognized, but they basically decided that they did not want to be part of the confederacy and withdrew. Looks like it might be time to try it again.
 
2001-09-10 05:50:02 PM  
Just replace them both with a display of "Bongs of the world"
 
2001-09-10 05:50:38 PM  
RocketScientist: "I'm sure the ACLU will start riding him again about this crap. At least there are some sane people in this country."

You mean the ACLU that are defending NAMBLA in Massachusetts? That's sane.

I'm not defending this religious nut (I am not a religious person, and I'd rather make fun of him, too), but religion has done more for humanity than atheism ever has. You may disagree with someone's moral standards, but it beats the hell out of no moral standards whatsoever.
 
2001-09-10 05:55:11 PM  
Hear-hear, Woody!
[APPLAUSE]
 
2001-09-10 05:57:05 PM  
Ah yes, let's get the ACLU involved, now all shall be right and sane again. Hopefully there can be some way to rope PETA in also, and the harmonic convergance will make the world safe for all.
 
2001-09-10 06:00:10 PM  
Geez, I can't see whose worse here the zealous athiests or the zealous theists. Its our duty to stop treating public buildings and land as a soapbox for someone's view on cosmology.

The solution isn't building endless monuments to every damn religion/cult/group etc its NOT building non-secular monuments.
 
2001-09-10 06:33:57 PM  
AMEN RocketScientist! I'm in Huntsville, and I wholeheartedly agree with you!
 
2001-09-10 06:42:35 PM  
Woody: "You may disagree with someone's moral standards, but it beats the hell out of no moral standards whatsoever."

I agree, but religion, and religious zeal are not prerequisites for morality. Values are. But I have to say...

Atheism has yet to spawn a war that resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands- religions have already done this ten times over.

Keep in mind the following is the broad stroke.

If only religion were an opiate. But all too often religious congregations are like mobbing crack heads who will do far worse things then "suck yo dick." They'll do anything their leaders deem appeasing to God. And that's the problem, these people unquestioningly use a medium to "connect" to God. I helped Nietzsche bury that body years ago.

*the ill*
 
2001-09-10 06:44:20 PM  
*Sigh*, what do you want, people? It's Alabama, the Lynching Capital of North America! Almost everyone's a bigot, and the people who disagree can't speak out because the noose is cutting off their oxygen!
 
2001-09-10 06:44:35 PM  
You mean the ACLU that are defending NAMBLA in Massachusetts? That's sane.


Whatever happened to the ethic behind "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?" Must not be fashionable anymore.

Maybe you haven't noticed but people and groups get their rights illegaly taken away from them all the time because they stand for something the herd doesn't like. They are still citizens with all the protections of the constitution. I don't care WHO the ACLU is defending, I care WHY.

A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.
--- Thomas Jefferson
 
2001-09-10 06:56:35 PM  
WoodyTX: no true atheist claims that atheism makes the world a better place, at least not directly. It's a belief (or actually a lack thereof), period. You're comparing apples and oranges.

And you are right - religion has done more for humanity than atheism ever has - the crusades and witch trials come to mind. So do struggling families that tithe 10% or more of their already meager salaries to the church. What about gays and lesbians that are told they are an abomination and treated as outcasts? Oh, and don't forget the truly devout that live each day fearing they will go to hell!

Sounds like a hoot - sign me up!
 
2001-09-10 07:02:16 PM  
Well put, Skallas! Voltaire gets credit for that first quote, and it fits the situation perfectly. I don't really think anyone here advocates what NAMBLA stands for. I sure don't, but I think they are entitled to all the same rights as us.

That Jefferson quote just became my new email tagline.
 
2001-09-10 07:09:06 PM  
Skallas: Whatever happened to the ethic behind "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?" Must not be fashionable anymore.

Went out of fashion somewhere around the time a presidential candidate was attacked as a "card-carrying member of the ACLU" which I guess made him a communist, or something :-)

Johnny_Ill: I had SUCH a similar conversation last monday over WAAAY too much alcohol. I love the concepts behind many religions, but too often those high ideals are perverted in the power grab that humans are wont to do.

Unitarian/Universalists and Quakers are the religious groups I'm familiar with that seems generally cool (let me know your personal fave, though :-)
 
2001-09-10 07:14:56 PM  
That quote (""They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety") isn't a Jefferson quote. It is from Benjamin Franklin.
 
2001-09-10 07:17:22 PM  
Big Tuna, Demosthenes:

http://public.logica.com/~stepneys/cyc/l/liberty.htm
 
2001-09-10 07:17:31 PM  
Atheism= no morals??
Hmmmm..... sweet. Well...I'm an atheist...and I thought I had morals. But apparently that's impossible. I shall begin my murderous, lust-filled rampage immediately.

On a side note: I don't think I can count the number of times a Christian, upon learning of my atheism, has asked: "Why don't you just rape, murder, and steal?" It scares me that so many people are out there in society that would "rape, murder and steal" if not for their fear of the boogie man in the skies. Yikes. I hope they never lose their faith. :-)
 
2001-09-10 07:19:42 PM  
WoodyTX - You may disagree with someone's moral standards, but it beats the hell out of no moral standards whatsoever.

Really? Explain.
 
2001-09-10 07:26:32 PM  
i make agnostic statues, sometimes. other times i just pour cement into the crate. i always have the crater well sealed, any ppl arent allowed to open em anyway...
 
2001-09-10 07:29:20 PM  
Organized religion destroys who we are or who we can be by inhibiting our actions and decisions out of fear of an intangible parent-figure who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says, "If you don't do what I say ... I'll fucking spank you!"

-Loki, "Dogma"
 
2001-09-10 07:39:11 PM  
Skallas:

I think that's just a paraphrasing of the quote that can be found
here

and

here

and

here

to name just a few. I could be wrong...
 
2001-09-10 07:40:10 PM  
A man without God is like a fish without a bicycle.

You can take your *theism and place it gently wherever you like. The store is open but nobody's buying.

p.s. Everything I ever wanted to know about anything I learned from Bob Black.
 
2001-09-10 07:50:44 PM  
The Jefferson quote is valid, who borrowed it from whom is the real question. It was probably a popular meme back then and I wouldn't be surprised if it was "borrowed" from one of the enlightenment philosphers.
 
2001-09-10 08:06:52 PM  
Athiests and religious people debating.
Neat.
I'll bet there's a whole lot of conversions happening on both sides, huh?
Keeps the server warm.
 
2001-09-10 08:21:54 PM  
Rounded_Bits: For the record....I used to be religious. (I was Mormon, and even a Mormon missionary for 2 years.) If it wasn't for religious debate I may still be LDS. So...I'd have to say that you're assertion that debating religion doesn't produce converts is incorrect. I know quite a few people who've been swayed by reading debates. Besides...some of us think it's fun. :-)
 
2001-09-10 08:31:53 PM  
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts
 
2001-09-10 08:33:11 PM  
And Jesus said unto them, "And whom do you say that I am?"

They replied,"You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of our being, the ontological foundation of the context of our very selfhood revealed."

And Jesus replied, "What?"
 
2001-09-10 08:37:32 PM  
Gawd: For the record....I used to be an Athiest. (My mom was the local secretary of American Athiests.) If it wasn't for LSD, I might still debate religion. So...I'd have to say that you're assertion about debating religion doesn't produce universal results. I know quite a few people who've been trolled by reading debates. Besides...some of us think it's fun. :-)
 
2001-09-10 08:56:43 PM  
What do you call a LDS Bishop on LSD?

A high priest.

he he he hehehehehehehe
 
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