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(Sun Sentinel)   High schooler campaigning to get 16-year-olds the right to vote. Like we don't know this is just a ploy to get the drinking age lowered   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 242
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2590 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Feb 2003 at 2:15 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-02-21 02:58:28 PM  
I do agree with her on one point. She pays taxes on her income, but doesn't have any rights that should be provided to her by those taxes.

Should we be taking money out of our kids pockets like that? Stop taxing the kids, and they'll have more to buy cds, condoms, and booze from their 21 year old friends. That should give the economy a boost.
 
2003-02-21 02:58:35 PM  
LandoGriffin

Something tells me that if 16-year-olds can vote, they can also be sent off to war as very poorly soldiers.


granted i'm way above 16
but at 16, the current presidential election would of been the asshat would be capable of sending me off to war at 18... so i'm being sent off to war, but ... i didn't have a chance to vote for the idiot.

i think that if you're going to turn 18 DURING THE PRESIDENTS TERM, (or senators for that matter) you should be able to vote FOR THAT election.

this would also enable 14 year olds to vote, and 12 year olds to vote for senators...

granted, i believe when i was 16, i had a well enough knowledge of what was going on with the world to figure out if i wanted to goto war someday... did i mention any other important factors that effect people's daily lives?
 
2003-02-21 02:58:58 PM  
So...raise the driving age and lower the drinking age, eh? That's intelligent. Watch the mortality rates of people that died in an alcohol related car accident go through the roof!
 
2003-02-21 02:59:34 PM  
I got 6 out of 12 but I'm Canadian so I think that's pretty good. I wonder how Americans would do with a similar quiz on Canadian politics. Most Canadians would probably do just as bad though. Recent polls have indicated that more Canadians know about American politicians than Canadian ones.

Now the real question is whether Canadians should be allowed to vote in the states. Considering the enormous influence that the US has on our lives I think it's a legitimate question. Not that you would want that considering that our extreme right-wing politicians are just left of Ralph Nader.
 
2003-02-21 03:00:40 PM  
Oh yeah... got 12 out of 12. Received a good all-American education and unlike most have an active interest in politics.
 
2003-02-21 03:01:12 PM  
Draft 'em all! I'll guard the women.
 
2003-02-21 03:02:09 PM  
Bendu

Yeah, you're right. Im just saying it's not taxation without representation, because at 16 you don't pay taxes.
 
2003-02-21 03:02:27 PM  
Really I think that voting, drinking, driving... hell all privlidges should be awarded based on intellectual maturity.

So if you still watch Pro wrestling or think that Britney Spear's lyrics are deep and meaningful... then you don't get to vote, drink, or drive.
 
2003-02-21 03:04:27 PM  
I think an adult hood test would be a great Idea! We can start off by taking the applicant to a strip club where they drink and try resist raping a dancer, then they leave after so long, get in a car and drive a test course, at the end of which they break down and reaasemble an AR 15 a2, and qualify on a target range, then take a written civics test and watch twelve angery men. Thats sounds alot like just asking then to complete GTA III. I bet most 16 year olds would pass!!
 
2003-02-21 03:05:15 PM  
This girl who thinks by being able to vote will really HELP in the desions of her taxes or any other law she wants amended, is going to be really upset when she sees that her lil 1% is a drop in the bucket, and won't scratch the surface of change.
 
2003-02-21 03:05:20 PM  
Hip_about_time

I like the idea of gaining all of those "adult" perks, at once. it sure makes things simple.

The sixteen year olds who want to vote should be allowed to, considering they wont make up much of the votes, as most 16 year olds have their little lives ALL figured out, and likely can't get out of school to even make election day. I would vote, given the ability, considering the fact that I'm 16, tested out of highschool, working full-time as a Technical Support representative for a local ISP, and one of my frustrations is that I am certainly a rarity in my age class. In conclusion, my declaration is that 16 year olds are generally asshats, but should be given the ability to vote, just to see what they don't do with it as a whole. I would be dissapointed to watch teens NOT vote, but not suprised.
 
2003-02-21 03:05:29 PM  
I missed questions 4 and 6
I am a model citizen
 
2003-02-21 03:05:36 PM  
Don't trust anyone over 30!!
 
2003-02-21 03:06:00 PM  
There is nothing in the constitution that says that a person's right to vote may not be abridged on the grounds of intelligence. So I say give all people an IQ test... those score below a certain mark... say 120... can't vote anymore.
 
2003-02-21 03:06:01 PM  
"So if you still watch Pro wrestling or think that Britney Spear's lyrics are deep and meaningful... then you don't get to vote, drink, or drive."

I believe the James Beam family wants to have a word with you...



... and thus we see the futility of getting any good laws enacted. Can't make sweeping changes to vehicle fuel efficiency because the SIGs will sweep in and take away your votes (and money). We can sue the tobacco industry, make them 'pay' 'billions' in 'restitution'...then give most of that money to the states who will end up spending it on things considered more important than smoking cessation.
 
2003-02-21 03:06:03 PM  
I think the drinking age should be continually raised so that it is always one day younger than me, so I can laugh at all you twerps forever.
 
2003-02-21 03:06:29 PM  
Here's a link to a Canadian citizenship test.

http://www.yourlibrary.ca/citizenship/index.asp

(sorry I have no HTML skillz)
 
2003-02-21 03:07:57 PM  
u dooo pay taxes at 16!
 
2003-02-21 03:08:03 PM  
How long will it be until some rock star. . .

Well, said Rock Star would have to be at least 35 years old, and therefore would be "uncool", "not hip" , "sqaure" or whatever else those crazy kids (and their rock n' roll music) call folk who are over 30. So, I don't see that as a problem.
 
2003-02-21 03:08:10 PM  
Scarneck

you're telling me that a kid at 15, 16 or 17 working for McDonalds or Walmart or wherever doesn't have taxes taken out of his/her paycheck?
 
2003-02-21 03:10:17 PM  
02-21-03 03:02:09 PM Scarneck
Bendu

Yeah, you're right. Im just saying it's not taxation without representation, because at 16 you don't pay taxes.

Excuse me, I pay my taxes. Alright then, thank you.
 
2003-02-21 03:10:37 PM  
Code_Archeologist:
So I say give all people an IQ test... those score below a certain mark... say 120... can't vote anymore.

Well, if you did that, nobody would ever vote Democrat.
Ohh. Twice in one day.

Problem is, you get into the sketchy ground of olden days when black people had to take a "test" at the polling place to vote. Just a little fugly to start doing that again. People would get so reamed over "racist" tests.
 
2003-02-21 03:10:40 PM  
Code_Archeologist: Do you think Volvo-driving latte-drinking indie-film fans make better voters?
 
2003-02-21 03:13:27 PM  
yes.. an iq test is very difficult to make unbiased
 
2003-02-21 03:14:33 PM  
BAH! Most IQ tests today that test cognitive ability are impossible to impeach because of "racial" leanings.

The only people who weould have a problem with it would be the mouth breathers who can't make a decision on their own... and the politicians who depend on them.
 
2003-02-21 03:17:27 PM  
As for a real test, It would have to be aimed at being completed at half correct by the 50th percentile of the population, then you would make the cuttoff point for failure be like three standard deviations in the low end direction. A 120 IQ requirement would have a result of only like 40 % of the population being able to vote, which is akin to what I was biatchin about above where working people are generally kept from voting by the non working/ independently wealthy class. I clock in at 142 so I wouldnt mind personally, Im just sayin
 
2003-02-21 03:19:08 PM  
Askheaves: Well, if you did that, nobody would ever vote Democrat.

Nobody with an income under six figures would ever vote Republican.
 
2003-02-21 03:20:08 PM  
On the child labor laws argument, there are laws that restrict the number of hours that 14-17 year olds can work, and when those hours can be worked. Also, my first job was when I was 15, I had social security and medicare taken out, but income tax ignored, and at my second job when I was 16 I had income tax taken out too. Child labor laws have nothing to do with taxes.

Child Labor Law poster that employers are required to put up
Annoying pdf format that displays the poster sideways, unfortunately.
 
2003-02-21 03:21:54 PM  
Hmmm...16 year olds with the right to vote. I'm guessing those of a Socialist slant would favor this, seeing as they somehow believe one becomes more intelligent as one grows older in every realm of knowledge except politics.
 
2003-02-21 03:23:40 PM  
Scarneck

Are you saying that I should try and get a refund from all the taxes I DID PAY at 15, 16 and 17 years old? States may be different, but in AZ and CA you can work under 18 yrs old, and if you work, you pay taxes.
 
2003-02-21 03:24:08 PM  
Nobody with an income under six figures would ever vote Republican. What do you mean DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke?
 
2003-02-21 03:24:12 PM  
Yeah, I remember using tax returns to buy equipment for my guitar rig when I was 16-17. I use to run thru those Dunlop Wahs like they were a pack of trojans.
 
2003-02-21 03:24:15 PM  
yeah... getting the 50th percentile of the population would probably be more fair... but really when you take into account that less than 40% of the voting population actually votes... I doubt people would mind, or even notice, the higher cut off.
 
2003-02-21 03:26:20 PM  
This girls loophole is wrong, the text of the amendment reads
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
It doesnt say that the right to vote shall not be denied for anyone as a result of age, just people 18 or over.
Sorry girl, you have no case.
 
2003-02-21 03:28:26 PM  
16 year olds voting? Ha - no thanks!

But lowering the age you can drink at in America would seem sensible... it's mad that the fresh cool beer I've just opened would be illegal in the States, yet fine in the UK... Go us!
 
2003-02-21 03:29:16 PM  
LandoGriffin: It'll just pave the way for a Vin Diesel presidential campaign, with Natalie Portman as VP.

Yeah, baby! Now you're talking! Vote Vin in 2004.
 
2003-02-21 03:30:07 PM  
12 out of 12, actually a very easy test.
 
2003-02-21 03:31:52 PM  
12 out of 12!
(I'm 17 by the way.)
 
2003-02-21 03:32:58 PM  
DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke:

I wanted the BAC back up to .10 because I work in my law library, and it's disheartening to see all these people come in who've had their lives ruined by getting pulled over by Barney Fife after they've had two beers.

The divorce/child custody/immigration stuff is pretty sad too, but I don't have an easy answer for those.
 
2003-02-21 03:33:03 PM  
Hip_about_time
"Yeah, I remember using tax returns to buy equipment for my guitar rig when I was 16-17. I use to run thru those Dunlop Wahs like they were a pack of trojans."


So, you went through one?

Sorry, just a little jab I couldn't resist.
 
2003-02-21 03:34:41 PM  
I wish people would read all my posts instead of commenting on just the last one or two and assume they know where Im coming from.

For the last time (I hope). Taxes are withheld from your paycheck when you're under 18, but if you get it all back, you're not really "paying taxes". Yes, some don't get it all back because they made over X amount.

Generaly, MOST under 18 employees get all of the federal withholding back at tax time.

When I mentioned the labor laws, I was stating that wages for people in their teens are small enough that it would take a violation of the hour limit to make enough to pay taxes MOST of the time.

Jesus. It's like we need to have a disclaimer and footnotes with every post any more. You guys aren't doing much to prove that you're ready to vote.
 
2003-02-21 03:35:40 PM  
IQ is a sliding scale. Let's pretend you can make a written, multiple choice test that would be unambiguous and fair to anyone that takes it (they are also generally weighted based on age). If you administered this test to all those that meet the qualifications to vote in the US, the average IQ will still end up at 100. 50% will be 'smarter', 50% will be 'dumber'. I think there's a fatal assumption held that "IQ" means something outside of the testing boundaries. For instance, some think that saying "I have 130 IQ" means "I'm a genius". It doesn't. It means that, of the population tested, you did a fair degree better in choosing the correct answers.

IF, in this hypothetical situation, the same test was administered to the world population, most people might expect the US population to do better (hence, some would say there should be a voting cutoff at 120 IQ). Still another wrong assumption. IF the IQ test is measuring intelligence rather than memorized knowledge, then the US as a whole should score from low to high with the same frequency as other countries. Average would still be 100 IQ. To make statements to the contrary would be racist (see "The Bell Curve" for example).

So I'll have to agree that an IQ-based voting requirement would have to be so broad as to not have any impact on the numbers of people voting.

Then again, I could just be babbling.
 
2003-02-21 03:35:43 PM  
Went through many, seems the pots get scratchy after a couple of months. So Switched to Digitech FX-7s they are digital and use and optical sensor. Such awesome range.
 
2003-02-21 03:36:10 PM  
02-21-03 02:26:14 PM MonikerLewinsky
If they can score 100% on this test, let's talk.

And for the rest of you Farkers, good luck.


"Your score: 12 out of 12.

You're a model citizen. Answers"

That's right, biatch. I feel better.
 
2003-02-21 03:36:41 PM  
I'd trust this girl to vote. It sounds like she wants it enough to actually use it responsibly.
 
2003-02-21 03:37:31 PM  
An IQ test would really harm the Democrats, since half their constituency is "Volvo-driving latte-drinking indie-film fans" and the other half are "the mouth breathers who can't make a decision on their own."

Those of us who are neither truly get a kick out of Democratic politics.
 
2003-02-21 03:37:50 PM  
I got 145 on the Cattel B scale (top 3%) and 145 on the Culture Fair test (top 0.5%) - but I don't feel particually clever... and whilst I knjow I'm above average, I do think it's still a little down to luck.
 
2003-02-21 03:38:41 PM  
Scarneck:

The kids still get screwed. Four words: "time use of money."
 
2003-02-21 03:39:08 PM  
You people do know that IQ based voting and positions in government are one of the basis for the Raelian beleifs dont you?
 
2003-02-21 03:41:29 PM  
Hehateme: If a minimum IQ of 120 were required to vote, a much lower percentage of middle and lower-income voters would vote against their own economic interests if favor of the top 5%.

I'm not saying they would vote Democrat. I am saying they would vote for a third earned-income friendly party with a fairly conservative social views, as opposed to going along with the trickle-down screwing by the Republican to avoid the 'entitlement-ghetto' Democrat image.
 
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