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(WTOP)   Cheap at any price: Senator leading the Democratic health care legislation effort says a revised plan will bring the cost under $1 trillion over 10 years   (wtop.com) divider line 104
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331 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jun 2009 at 5:51 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-06-25 08:10:51 PM  
winterwhile: Bad In Public

You people haven't a clue. This isn't heath care reform for all Americans. A trillion for ten years for those who have no insurance. What's in it for the rest of us other than taxes to pay for others?

This ain't reform!

well yea, you responsable folks just get to.... drum roll please...pay


Why do you biatch? You won't be paying.



MindStalker: The Dog Ate The Constitution: Have any 10 year cost projections been right ever?

Sometimes they are under sometimes they are over. You try to project national trends over 10 years. Good luck. The implication that they are always under is simply wrong.


The implication that anytime any politician or think tanks puts them out they are completely full of shiat is not.
 
2009-06-25 08:13:53 PM  
WALMART.saves

All I can say is that I'm getting farking sick and tired (literally) with paying $800/month for health insurance that seems to deny just about everything. fark United Health.

/and I'm not even 30!


wow, shop around, I am over 50, have cancer, and pay 1/2 that. Evil BCBS, they make me pay less that this moron. Plus I fired my first Insurance plan when I saw what crap they offered.
 
2009-06-25 08:15:16 PM  
winterwhile: Bad In Public

You people haven't a clue. This isn't heath care reform for all Americans. A trillion for ten years for those who have no insurance. What's in it for the rest of us other than taxes to pay for others?

This ain't reform!

well yea, you responsable folks just get to.... drum roll please...pay


Responsible folks never get denied insurance for pre-existing conditions! Responsible folks never lose thier jobs! Responsible people never go bankrupt from medical bills! Responsible people never get screwed by the insurance company!
 
2009-06-25 08:15:16 PM  
The Democrats are rolling out Max Baucus to plug this thing instead of Kennedy and Dodd. Hmm. Maybe more people than I thought remember the Waitress Sandwich Episode of '85, and not fondly.
 
2009-06-25 08:24:26 PM  
YodaTuna

Responsible folks never get denied insurance for pre-existing conditions! Responsible folks never lose thier jobs! Responsible people never go bankrupt from medical bills! Responsible people never get screwed by the insurance company!


you are correct. as a responsable person I read my policy.

Then I fired my Insurance company

Now I have BCBS and understand exactly what they will and will not cover.
 
2009-06-25 08:29:51 PM  
winterwhile: YodaTuna

Responsible folks never get denied insurance for pre-existing conditions! Responsible folks never lose thier jobs! Responsible people never go bankrupt from medical bills! Responsible people never get screwed by the insurance company!

you are correct. as a responsable person I read my policy.

Then I fired my Insurance company

Now I have BCBS and understand exactly what they will and will not cover.


I've busted you before dude. You don't have a job.
 
2009-06-25 08:31:52 PM  
Obama is an idiot. We do not need a health care plan. America's health care is not in crisis. The Dems just want to take over everything. Obama is going to ruin this nation. And YA'LL fell for it!
 
2009-06-25 08:40:15 PM  
tony41454: Obama is an idiot. We do not need a health care plan. America's health care is not in crisis. The Dems just want to take over everything. Obama is going to ruin this nation. And YA'LL fell for it!

How comfy is it under that rock? What's the rent like?
 
2009-06-25 08:46:13 PM  
Under a Nanny state plan.... Can you fire the Nanny State?

I don't think so....... you are stuck, with what ever they say you get... period
 
2009-06-25 08:54:40 PM  
As long as the hospitals can still charge $113,000 for one night's stay in the hospital, one dose of antivenin, for an uncomplicated copperhead snake bit and the health insurance companies (those bastions of innovation, cost effectiveness, and efficiency) are still stupid enough to write a check without even a little whimper, I'm good with this new plan.
 
2009-06-25 09:01:45 PM  
winterwhile: Under a Nanny state plan.... Can you fire the Nanny State?

I don't think so....... you are stuck, with what ever they say you get... period


Which is better than...nothing. Which is what people who would be on the "nanny state" plan are getting right now.
 
2009-06-25 09:17:06 PM  
Cagey B: Or is it, "would you take the public option, and live with not getting the all-encompassing package of services that everyone else is surely getting with their private providers"?

I realize that is not your opinion, Cagey B, but it highlights an important point only a few people seem to bring up in these threads.

Getting extended private insurance is still entirely possible. I don't see anything that would stop you from doing so if you could afford it.

So public and private health insurance options are by no means mutually exclusive.

Use less expensive public insurance for your annual doctor visits, maintenance health and occasional special care to the extent that it covers, which would ideally be the vast majority of what the common person actually needs.

If you want super-extra-special care coverage, you can buy your own insurance on top of what you get from the government. You are still free to choose.
=Smidge=
 
2009-06-25 09:26:18 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: winterwhile: Under a Nanny state plan.... Can you fire the Nanny State?

I don't think so....... you are stuck, with what ever they say you get... period

Which is better than...nothing. Which is what people who would be on the "nanny state" plan are getting right now.


I'm willing to forego 15% more of GDP to government control for "better than nothing." Sounds like a winner!
 
2009-06-25 09:30:29 PM  
Obviously: I'm willing to forego 15% more of GDP to government control for "better than nothing." Sounds like a winner!

The private market failed. Give it up. Nobody in the private market was unwilling to give up GDP shares when they were in debt up to their ass.

Market failed. Horribly. STFU
 
2009-06-25 09:34:21 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: Which is better than...nothing. Which is what people who would be on the "nanny state" plan are getting right now.

Medicaid is "nothing"?
 
2009-06-25 09:42:25 PM  
If it doesn't factor in decreased costs from our current universal health care plan (emergency medicine), productivity benefits, and secondary gains (improved efficacy of emergency medicine in a less stressed system, finacial strain on individuals), then and projected costs are worthless. Thanks for playing.

Fact: Emergency medicine is THE most expensive way to do universal healthcare. Anything else, short of no healthcare, is cheaper.
 
2009-06-25 10:13:19 PM  
winterwhile: Under a Nanny state plan.... Can you fire the Nanny State?

I don't think so....... you are stuck, with what ever they say you get... period


How many times have we been told that you will get to keep your plan if you like it? How many times?

Please, provide some sort of proof that they plan to only allow one, government-run option in healthcare. This fear-mongering "everyone else will go out of business!" is bullshiat parroting.
 
2009-06-25 10:21:13 PM  
Is it lost on you conservatards that we currently WASTE 750 BILLION DOLLARS EACH farkING YEAR on health care, given the level of care as compared to other (not-as-retarded) nations?

/christ
//tired of your neverending stupidity and wastefulness
///single farking payer, now
 
2009-06-25 10:31:57 PM  
$999,999,999,999.99.

/of course their estimates will be way too low
 
2009-06-25 10:31:59 PM  
Arent We paying for health care right now?

I really think they deduct money from my checking account every month right now.

So when they spend a trillion dollars fixing health care and making it cheaper, how much do you think will be deducted from my checking account every month?

Im betting it isnt going to me Less.

See if you 'fix' something to make it 'cheaper' apparently that costs an extra trillion or so.
 
2009-06-25 10:36:25 PM  
Alien Robot: cameroncrazy1984: Which is better than...nothing. Which is what people who would be on the "nanny state" plan are getting right now.

Medicaid is "nothing"?


Medicaid covers the 45 million uninsureds in this country?

archichris: See if you 'fix' something to make it 'cheaper' apparently that costs an extra trillion or so.

Over ten years. Which is less than we're paying for having 45 million uninsured people now. So yes. It does.
 
2009-06-25 10:39:23 PM  
A buddy of mine said to me recently, "It cost six figures to watch my Mom die, she could have died at home for free." We could save a lot of money on health care by addressing two things: the last few weeks of a 90 year old person's life and For-Profit Insurers. My doctor says over half his office overhead now is in Insurance Administration. No, not malpractice insurance or Mexicans. Just the extra people he needs who deal with the various insurance "criminals" - his word.
 
2009-06-25 10:41:11 PM  
Tag already says what I think of it, but pointing out that social security and medicare were initially expected to run a million a year or so at max won't really prevent this from happening or convince the people that actually think it'll be cheap (since those people are either congenitally retarded or are so oblivious to external stimula that they're selling their services to rioters as taser-immune block-breakers).
 
2009-06-25 10:45:05 PM  
MiddleyMcCentrist: Is it lost on you conservatards that we currently WASTE 750 BILLION DOLLARS EACH farkING YEAR on health care, given the level of care as compared to other (not-as-retarded) nations?

The plans used by those socialist bastards can't possibly work in America
 
2009-06-25 10:46:51 PM  
Jim_Callahan: Tag already says what I think of it, but pointing out that social security and medicare were initially expected to run a million a year or so at max won't really prevent this from happening or convince the people that actually think it'll be cheap (since those people are either congenitally retarded or are so oblivious to external stimula that they're selling their services to rioters as taser-immune block-breakers).

When social security was implemented the average lifespan was a few years shy of ever getting social security. Lifespan was the biggest change that increased cost. It could increase cost to this too, but that is going to be a societal cost no matter how to deal with this.
 
2009-06-25 10:53:20 PM  
bulldg4life: MiddleyMcCentrist: Is it lost on you conservatards that we currently WASTE 750 BILLION DOLLARS EACH farkING YEAR on health care, given the level of care as compared to other (not-as-retarded) nations?

The plans used by those socialist bastards can't possibly work in America



When I got sick in Southern France, the village doctor was called. He walked over, with a black bag old school style, checked me out and gave me shot of antibiotic. I was sick because I had never had unpasteurized milk product before was his diagnosis. He came over the next day and checked on me again. Then spent thirty or so minutes bullshiatting with us about where and what to eat in the area. Then the bill, I shuddered as he scribbled - 15 Euro.

Those farking commies!

/dad got sick on another trip and went to hospital in Lyon.
//3 days and a minor surgery later, 700 Euro.
///tards
 
2009-06-25 11:14:07 PM  
We are currently spend well over $100 billion a year just in emergency care for the uninsured.
 
2009-06-25 11:17:31 PM  
DaSwankOne: We are currently spend well over $100 billion a year just in emergency care for the uninsured.

They're so much more expensive to fix up than those insured people. And with no insurers taking a cut, that just drives the cost of their care even higher.

/rolls eyes
//United Health CEO - $1 Billion bonus
///for what exactly?
 
2009-06-25 11:37:52 PM  
As a true John Gault, my mouth waters at all the talks of socializing our medicare. All of these other "John Gaults" seem to shiat their pants in terror about the thought of trying to succeed with socialized medicare, as their business models will fail and their Will to Power will suddenly be snipped like Nietzsche's sanity at the sight of a dying horse. I love smelling their weakness as they lack the talent or willpower to survive the changing tides.

So once public healthcare gets passed, I shall eagerly swoop in and rape the corpses of their privatized jobs. They lacked the talent or determination to succeed. The private sector eliminates the weak. You are weak, I am strong. I can smell your blood.

When the Weak Person's economy "fails" after this passes, the feeding frenzy of true John Gaults (who succeed regardless of having their training wheels taken off, regardless of changing conditions) shall astound the onlookers. I see your wavering, brittle stance in Fark threads. Soon, you shall be culled from the Private Sector, and only the strong (who don't give two sharts of a leaky grandmother) shall survive.

As it should be.
 
2009-06-25 11:44:48 PM  
Undiluted: As a true John Gault,


You would think a "true" John Galt would know how to spell his own name.
 
2009-06-25 11:52:24 PM  
Hick: FlashHarry: winterwhile: kill this thing

90% of the USA are happy with what we have. Obama care will be a huge failure. Just see Canada's failed care system.

that's interesting considering 62% of americans favor some sort of government run option.

Maybe those 62% have never been to the post office or DMV.


Tell ya what, I'll go to the worst run DMV you can find, not even make an appointment ahead of time. You go to the ER with no health insurance. We'll have a race. When I'm done, I'll stop by the Post Office and send you a letter so you'll have something to read while you're still waiting.
 
2009-06-25 11:57:23 PM  
A million million dollars....and you're going to inject Bureaucracy into what used to be a somewhat competitive private industry...

I work for Medicare and see the huge costs for what little service we provide in computer services. We also do business with 'regular business' health plans like common Blue Cross & Blue Shield plans and of course do more work and charge them less. It's competitive and we hold costs down for bidding work. Every dollar is scrutinized.

In Medicare Part B, lots of things are audited, bidding is done, oversight by the bureaucrats is there always.....and then they go ahead and pay so much $cashS for so little work. They build over redundancy, over plan, over pay. It's funny, but sad. I make a lot, yet it comes from the taxpayers pockets.

Putting more government in Healthcare will be one of the worst things we do. The cost will override the little value.


The second huge tax coming is what the WSJ called "The largest tax in American history" and that is the Whitehouse and Congress climate bill that is in the works.

Two huge whammy costs, and I think most americans are oblivious as to the costs.

Too busy worrying about a pop star, a governor's affair, or the insipid over coverage of Iranians arguing.

Keep your eye on the debt, the money. It's not cool to have the government take more of your money to reward those who make bad decisions and make poor choices.


/down hill
 
2009-06-26 12:10:48 AM  
Mcamp
Please,Please,Please,Please,Please,Please,Please,Please,Please, Kill Obama-care. If you want rationed medicine move to Canada.

I would kill to have Canada's health care system.
 
2009-06-26 12:55:02 AM  
TheJoeY: winterwhile: Under a Nanny state plan.... Can you fire the Nanny State?

I don't think so....... you are stuck, with what ever they say you get... period

How many times have we been told that you will get to keep your plan if you like it? How many times?

Please, provide some sort of proof that they plan to only allow one, government-run option in healthcare. This fear-mongering "everyone else will go out of business!" is bullshiat parroting.


Well lets see... next week I get to take the whole week off of work... unpaid because there's no work so the plant is shutting down for 4th of July week. and at some point during the summer everyone will have to take another week off (staggered so the plant actually keeps running) also unpaid. and we expect this to repeat next quarter. The next few months are gonna be tight money wise.

The one thing we do have going for us is really good benefits. Including the best health insurance you can get around here. Now as my company is cutting costs to preserve the quarterly numbers I could just hear them tell us "We're cutting healthcare to save costs, instead you can enroll in Obama's government plan."

You say I could keep my plan what if my employer takes that away? With the public plan available they'll easily be able to justify it. And don't say that isn't going to happen some congressional democrats are proclaiming this is an intermediary step to single payer healthcare. So stop shoveling that BS about being able to keep our current insurance. When this happens will I at least be allowed to cuss out Obama's name without being called a hate monger?

With insurance companies yea they're greedy but at least you know who your dealing with. With a government lackey they could very well make your life miserable just because it's Tuesday. They'll send you on a wild goose chase to collect a form and then tell you that wasn't the form you needed. no two government employees will EVER give you the same information, and they'll seem to go out of there way to contradict each other. I'm suppose to have faith in people like that?

At least when an insurance company farks up you (or your next of kin) can sue them for millions of dollars. The government is first to proclaim they never make mistakes and are above the law so when they screw up what recourse will anyone have? Obama would do well to sell his plan by introducing a plan to require government employees to pass minimal competency tests and be at least as smart as a brain damaged monkey. This would at least begin to restore peoples faith in government bureaucracies that are accountable to no one.
 
2009-06-26 12:57:23 AM  
The Dog Ate The Constitution: Have any 10 year cost projections been right ever?

Well, SS projections have always been negative. SS always outperforms the expectations.
 
2009-06-26 12:57:59 AM  
The GAO usually uses very conservative estimates though.
 
2009-06-26 12:59:40 AM  
netcentric: A million million dollars....and you're going to inject Bureaucracy into what used to be a somewhat competitive private industry...

I work for Medicare and see the huge costs for what little service we provide in computer services. We also do business with 'regular business' health plans like common Blue Cross & Blue Shield plans and of course do more work and charge them less. It's competitive and we hold costs down for bidding work. Every dollar is scrutinized.

In Medicare Part B, lots of things are audited, bidding is done, oversight by the bureaucrats is there always.....and then they go ahead and pay so much $cashS for so little work. They build over redundancy, over plan, over pay. It's funny, but sad. I make a lot, yet it comes from the taxpayers pockets.

Putting more government in Healthcare will be one of the worst things we do. The cost will override the little value.


The second huge tax coming is what the WSJ called "The largest tax in American history" and that is the Whitehouse and Congress climate bill that is in the works.

Two huge whammy costs, and I think most americans are oblivious as to the costs.

Too busy worrying about a pop star, a governor's affair, or the insipid over coverage of Iranians arguing.

Keep your eye on the debt, the money. It's not cool to have the government take more of your money to reward those who make bad decisions and make poor choices.


/down hill


Are you serious? I worked for a medical equipment company. To say Medicare has huge costs compared to private insurance companies shows your incredible bias.
 
2009-06-26 01:04:09 AM  
mrjared: Hick: FlashHarry: winterwhile: kill this thing

90% of the USA are happy with what we have. Obama care will be a huge failure. Just see Canada's failed care system.

that's interesting considering 62% of americans favor some sort of government run option.

Maybe those 62% have never been to the post office or DMV.

Tell ya what, I'll go to the worst run DMV you can find, not even make an appointment ahead of time. You go to the ER with no health insurance. We'll have a race. When I'm done, I'll stop by the Post Office and send you a letter so you'll have something to read while you're still waiting.


Heh, good stuff.
 
2009-06-26 02:00:44 AM  
skyrous

At least when an insurance company farks up you (or your next of kin) can sue them for millions of dollars. The government is first to proclaim they never make mistakes and are above the law so when they screw up what recourse will anyone have?

uhm. you're not really serious, now, are you?
Are you like, twelve years old?
Or just morbidly uninformed
 
2009-06-26 02:09:04 AM  
Hick: FlashHarry: winterwhile: kill this thing

90% of the USA are happy with what we have. Obama care will be a huge failure. Just see Canada's failed care system.

that's interesting considering 62% of americans favor some sort of government run option.

Maybe those 62% have never been to the post office or DMV.


Don't knock the post office. They drive up to your house and for 42 cents will take an envelope anywhere in the country you want and hand deliver that farker in 2-3 days.
 
2009-06-26 02:44:44 AM  
All I want to know is, are Obama and ALL of Congress going to have give up their current health care plans and use ObamaCare?

If it's "good enough" for us, is it going to be for them as well?

I think that DMV comparison is incorrect; try going to the Social Security office. Now, imagine that bureacracy running your family's health care...
 
2009-06-26 03:12:15 AM  
Undiluted: As a true John Gault

Tell your brother Willie we Bears fans said hi.
 
2009-06-26 07:48:43 AM  
YodaTuna: I don't think they lost to the pubs. They lost to the corporations. Well maybe lost isn't the right word. Maybe "sold out at the expense of the American people". Yea that feels better.

Perhaps Obama should have secured Congressional buy-in before declaring that change was coming.
 
2009-06-26 08:58:23 AM  
skyrous: The one thing we do have going for us is really good benefits. Including the best health insurance you can get around here. Now as my company is cutting costs to preserve the quarterly numbers I could just hear them tell us "We're cutting healthcare to save costs, instead you can enroll in Obama's government plan."

You say I could keep my plan what if my employer takes that away? With the public plan available they'll easily be able to justify it.


So your company cutting costs and cutting your healthcare is the government's fault?

Are you high?
 
2009-06-26 09:27:11 AM  
TheJoeY: skyrous: The one thing we do have going for us is really good benefits. Including the best health insurance you can get around here. Now as my company is cutting costs to preserve the quarterly numbers I could just hear them tell us "We're cutting healthcare to save costs, instead you can enroll in Obama's government plan."

You say I could keep my plan what if my employer takes that away? With the public plan available they'll easily be able to justify it.

So your company cutting costs and cutting your healthcare is the government's fault?

Are you high?


No, but what incentive does a firm have to pay for health insurance when the government will do it for free?
 
2009-06-26 09:59:40 AM  
winterwhile: I am over 50, have cancer

Wow...aren't you the guy with like 8 sets of grandparents scattered across Europe and Canada, all of them with anecdotes about waiting in line for socialized health care?

Your family must have broken some kind of record for variety of serious medical afflictions experienced in an assortment of countries whose names come up in internet discussions about health care. How convenient! Rest assured, we all believe your rich bank of anecdotal evidence and take it seriously.
 
2009-06-26 10:04:19 AM  
Goldeneye007: TheJoeY: skyrous: The one thing we do have going for us is really good benefits. Including the best health insurance you can get around here. Now as my company is cutting costs to preserve the quarterly numbers I could just hear them tell us "We're cutting healthcare to save costs, instead you can enroll in Obama's government plan."

You say I could keep my plan what if my employer takes that away? With the public plan available they'll easily be able to justify it.

So your company cutting costs and cutting your healthcare is the government's fault?

Are you high?

No, but what incentive does a firm have to pay for health insurance when the government will do it for free?


What incentive does a firm have to pay a salary when someone will work for cheaper?
 
2009-06-26 10:15:54 AM  
The plan is deficit neutral. If you're allergic to facts, then please ignore the CBO estimates that back it up.
 
2009-06-26 10:19:58 AM  
The Dog Ate The Constitution: Have any 10 year cost projections been right ever?


No but they are right this time. Obama said so.
 
2009-06-26 10:37:04 AM  
The Dog Ate The Constitution: Have any 10 year cost projections been right ever?

Oh so this. I would challenge anyone who votes for this mess that if the price exceeds the estimate or if quality doesn't meet the sold benefits of the plan that they resign from office.
 
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