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(TSN)   Not news: Sedin twins are set to be free agents. News: They want 12-year contracts. Fark: Worth $63 million. Each   (tsn.ca ) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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2274 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Jun 2009 at 9:08 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-06-18 09:12:11 PM  
How is that asinine? Front-load the contracts and you get a potent line for the next decade. By the time they're getting old you're paying them next to nothing, assuming they don't bolt for Sweden.
 
2009-06-18 09:20:27 PM  
I would only pay that kind of money for Zetterberg or Malkin, maybe Ovechkin.
 
2009-06-18 09:20:46 PM  
I don't know much about hockey contracts, but -- by all other sports' standards -- that isn't too awful, assuming they are quality players.

/doesn't know who they are
//DNRTFA
 
2009-06-18 09:22:37 PM  
The Sedins each want a Zetterberg type contract? No way...they're not nearly as good as Zetts.

Besides - 12 year contracts are idiotic. Most teams don't care about the money you pay at the end, but the cap hit. Having two guys in their late 30's with 6.5 - 7 mil cap hits will kill your team.

Unless of course, the cap rises significantly or inflation makes 7 million look like chump change.
 
2009-06-18 09:26:43 PM  
They're good, but they're not that good. Any team that signs them for that will hurt itself.
 
2009-06-18 09:27:38 PM  
Zetterberg's cap hit is $6.08M. The hit for each Sedin from this would be $5.25M. Considering that both are PPG players in their prime, I think they're worth that money.
 
2009-06-18 09:28:59 PM  
Actually - I just did some calculations...5.25 million a year for 12 years? The salary is fair - but the years is crazy.

If they want 12 years, I'd give them 4 - 4.5...if they want to sign for 5 years, give them 5.5 mil.
 
2009-06-18 09:32:04 PM  
These long contracts are one of the things that will come up in the next CBA I bet. How do you know that a player will be that good for that long? It can leave a team really hedging its bet on them.
 
2009-06-18 09:38:49 PM  
You guys aren't getting the value of these long contracts.

Signing a guy to 10-15 year contracts carries a certain risk, it is true, but when you've got proven commodities like Zetterberg or the Sedins, the risk isn't so steep. In effect, you're able to spread out the cap hit to be more favorable to your team while paying them more in the early years. So for you you're paying the Sedins $5.25M on cap, but in reality, they're getting a lot more in the early years of the contract. By the time the contract is winding down and they're old, the money owed them is negligible. And they won't be sticking around for it, anyway, clearing that cap hit. It's a clever way to circumvent the cap, and it will only become more common until the CBA is changed to combat it (which I'm not sure it needs to be).
 
2009-06-18 09:40:37 PM  
I might give them 12 years, $63Million if I were a GM. Of course they'd have to split it between them. No way I'd give them each that big of a contract.
 
2009-06-18 09:43:51 PM  
No - I get it. But I don't think it's a smart strategy. You talk about proven commodities - but will they still be the same proven commodity 10 - 12 years down the road? No chance.

Unless they retire or get a serious enough injury to be put on the long term injury list, that cap could cripple a team down the road. If they fall off their current pace to any significant degree (but remain healthy), the only value they'll have is to be traded to a team with salary issues (ie. teams looking to reach the cap floor by spending the least amount of money).

So yeah - in the short term, they're good deals...in the long term - well that's left to be seen. Personally, I don't think any player is worth more than a 5 year contract.
 
2009-06-18 09:44:35 PM  

nyihockey: I might give them 12 years, $63Million if I were a GM. Of course they'd have to split it between them. No way I'd give them each that big of a contract.


So you want to cut their salaries by 33%?
 
2009-06-18 09:45:07 PM  
Let's not forget Datsyuk here !

Do we jack this thread in regards to the NHL awards?...Pavel has won two so far.

/What gives ?
 
2009-06-18 09:46:35 PM  
OV already won the hart.

I don't think it's live.
 
2009-06-18 09:49:41 PM  
thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com

Approves

/15 year $67.5M deal
//Missed the last 41 games of the regular season
///Should grow into being a great backup goalie some day

And Alexei Yashin, does too, of course (10y $87.5)

/Can't be bothered to find a pic of him

Bottom line is that long contract like those are asinine, and the dollars per year doesn't figure into it. Seeing 3 or 4 years out is hard enough. Saying someone will be worth for over a decade in any pro sporting capacity is dumb.

So maybe they will both end up in Toronto. They have both the money and the stupids.

For someone like Zetterberg, though, I'd probably do it. It locks him up and even if you end up eating the back half of the deal, it's worth it having him for six years and knowing he ends his career with you no matter which way it turns out.

The Sedins? Simply not in the same category of player.
 
2009-06-18 09:52:14 PM  
Ugh. They're not going to play for 12 years. The contracts are front-loaded, giving them the bulk of the money in the first half of the deal. They'll make the majority of the contact in 8 years, after which it'll drop off to, say, $1M per season. At that point, they're old, they go back to play for Modo, having earned almost all of the money, anyway, and those contracts are off the books. As for them falling off their pace - as with Zetterberg, they've been very consistent. We're not talking about some flash-in-the-pan. Is there a chance that one or both could go cold? Sure, but the prospects of that are slim, and for a GM hoping to squeeze all he can from the cap, it's an easy gamble to make. No doubt it will bite a few guys in the ass - look at DiPietro in New York - but I think it's a sensible strategy given what it can do for a club (see: Detroit).
 
2009-06-18 09:53:43 PM  

DrSieb: OV already won the hart.

I don't think it's live.


It's not.
 
2009-06-18 09:59:39 PM  
I think you're way off base. You can't sign them to a deal assuming they'll retire before the end of it. Will they? Maybe - but what if they don't? What if they have 4 years left and while they suck, want a chance at the cup they haven't won yet? It's not like they'll have it in writing that they retire.

If whatever team signs them wins the cup, then those late years are Ok...but that's a big If.

Also - "see Detroit"? What about it? Talk to me about "see Detroit" in 7 or 8 years...or Philadelphia...or the Islanders...or the Caps...or any other team giving out massive contracts.

There has only been one mega contract so far that we can look back on and determine how successful it was - and that's Yashins with the Islanders - didn't work out well, did it?
 
2009-06-18 10:08:41 PM  

DrSieb: Talk to me about "see Detroit" in 7 or 8 years.


Why? The point of these contracts is what they can do for your club Now. Fitting in talent that you could not otherwise pay for. Again, some of them will prove unwise, but the vast majority will pay off. It's why you see them becoming so common. GMs will play the odds - they know that disaster can strike, but they also know that the majority of established NHL players don't suddenly implode. If they can get what amounts to a $65M roster for a hit of $50M, they're gonna do it and take the chance.
 
2009-06-18 10:17:12 PM  
Did Ovechkin say that DC is his favorite place to play "for now" and that he wants to play in a Canadian city during his Hart speech?
 
2009-06-18 10:34:04 PM  

Katalyst: Did Ovechkin say that DC is his favorite place to play "for now" and that he wants to play in a Canadian city during his Hart speech?


Does someone write for the Onion?
 
2009-06-18 10:35:28 PM  
Did you even listen to Ovechkin's Hart acceptance speech?
 
2009-06-18 10:37:00 PM  
contracts with double-digit years is ridiculous.

Luckily there are guys like Brian Burke out there to pick up the tab for these guys.
 
2009-06-18 10:39:58 PM  
I think it should be pointed out that, in a perverse way, these kinds of contracts can actually become valuable trading chips towards the end of the deal.

Let's say the cap hit is 5.5 million. That stays the same for the length of the deal. But the actual salary being paid could be, say, 1 million for the last 4 years of the deal. In this scenario, a team that is having trouble spending to the salary floor, either because they're stocked with entry level contracts, or because they're financially dicey (not that there are any of those in the NHL...) would be very interested in the twins.

If the salary floor was something like 35 million, and you have 24 million of salary commitments, all you have to do is pick up the twins, and you meet the floor, while saving 9 million dollars. Given the fiscal state of so many teams in the league, this is totally plausible.
 
2009-06-18 10:40:18 PM  

Katalyst: Did Ovechkin say that DC is his favorite place to play "for now" and that he wants to play in a Canadian city during his Hart speech?



Looks like he said that he "likes to play in Canadian cities". Different that he "wants to play". But still. WTF?

I especially like how he had to say that DC was his favorite place to play "for now".

Double WTF?
 
2009-06-18 10:45:24 PM  

Katalyst: Katalyst: Did Ovechkin say that DC is his favorite place to play "for now" and that he wants to play in a Canadian city during his Hart speech?


Looks like he said that he "likes to play in Canadian cities". Different that he "wants to play". But still. WTF?

I especially like how he had to say that DC was his favorite place to play "for now".

Double WTF?


Maybe he wants to play for Pittsburgh because he wants to go with a team that will win. Actuallu, Bettman would make Ovechkin move to a Western Conference team first just to have them meet in the Final.

/yes I am serious
 
2009-06-18 10:50:55 PM  

epyonyx: Maybe he wants to play for Pittsburgh because he wants to go with a team that will win. Actuallu, Bettman would make Ovechkin move to a Western Conference team first just to have them meet in the Final.


If Bettman had his way, OV would be on the Wings. Gary has been giving Detroit so many breaks over the years that it's obvious that the wings are his favourite in the West.
 
2009-06-18 10:53:46 PM  
The Leafs will show interest in the Sedins then sign Patrice Brisebois for the same money.

/Leaf fan.
//Would love to have the Sedins.
///Not at that price.
////Dreaming, of course
 
2009-06-18 10:55:32 PM  

4NSpy: epyonyx: Maybe he wants to play for Pittsburgh because he wants to go with a team that will win. Actuallu, Bettman would make Ovechkin move to a Western Conference team first just to have them meet in the Final.

If Bettman had his way, OV would be on the Wings. Gary has been giving Detroit so many breaks over the years that it's obvious that the wings are his favourite in the West.


Actually, I would see him pulling for Chicago first because of the young talent and greater market exposure. Don't get me wrong. I am a Wings fan, but Butt-hurt-man would rather have more than his sure of Ov's teeth whitener to get him to play in Chicago than go the Wings.
 
2009-06-18 10:56:13 PM  

Katalyst: Did you even listen to Ovechkin's Hart acceptance speech?


Yea I did. Every word.

...what's your point?
 
2009-06-18 10:59:01 PM  
Because you love speculating so much, it's my turn:

"I like playing in Canadian cities, but right now, my favorite city to play in is Washington," Ovechkin said in his acceptance speech. "Next year, I hope [the] Stanley Cup will be ours."

Canadian cities = Montreal = All-star game

He's tired of just playing in All-star games. He wants a Cup. In Washington.
 
2009-06-18 11:10:41 PM  

alienofamerica: Katalyst: Did you even listen to Ovechkin's Hart acceptance speech?

Yea I did. Every word.

...what's your point?


Katalyst doesn't have one. He's a douchebag whiner. Seriously, ignore him.
 
2009-06-18 11:15:38 PM  
I think that any team that signs a player for more than 5 years* for big dollars are inviting big problems. Prime example: Dany Heatley *spit*

*rare exceptions for players like Ovechkin, but then 6 or 7 at most.
 
2009-06-18 11:39:43 PM  

thegod082: I don't know much about hockey contracts, but -- by all other sports' standards -- that isn't too awful, assuming they are quality players.

/doesn't know who they are
//DNRTFA


They're good players, but not worth that much.

/if anyone wants to kill their salary cap for two above-average-but-not-amazing players, go right ahead and sign them
 
2009-06-19 12:30:02 AM  
snake_beater: They're good players, but not worth that much.

/if anyone wants to kill their salary cap for two above-average-but-not-amazing players, go right ahead and sign them


You realize they each had 82 points and were tied for 13th in league scoring this year, right?

I'm not big on the Sedins, either, but they're better than most of the forwards in the league and you could do worse to get 2 of the top 15 scorers for 6 mil a piece.
 
2009-06-19 12:52:41 AM  

4NSpy: Gary has been giving Detroit so many breaks over the years that it's obvious that the wings are his favourite in the West.


Go on. I'd like to know what breaks you're talking about.

/no, seriously
 
2009-06-19 01:09:39 AM  

whereisian: Prime example: Dany Heatley *spit*


There's Burke's farkID
 
2009-06-19 03:25:03 AM  
While I'm not a fan of players dictating the terms of contracts, this is not unreasonable. The Sedins are entering what should be their prime playing years, and front-loaded contracts with a 5.XXM cap hit is less than what they'd get on the free agent market.

The Canucks can't exactly afford to let point-per-game calibre players leave the team. Outside of Hodgson and maybe Grabner, there are really no offensively gifted players in the Canucks minor-league system.

The Canucks also have ~20M in cap space to play with, even if it drops a couple of million this leaves room to put some other pieces together (one second, one third and one fourth-liner, and a good defenseman).
 
2009-06-19 04:00:02 AM  

Deece: snake_beater: They're good players, but not worth that much.

/if anyone wants to kill their salary cap for two above-average-but-not-amazing players, go right ahead and sign them

You realize they each had 82 points and were tied for 13th in league scoring this year, right?

I'm not big on the Sedins, either, but they're better than most of the forwards in the league and you could do worse to get 2 of the top 15 scorers for 6 mil a piece.


totally agree and i'm a canuck fan. the twins aren't super amazing, just really solid. but if the canucks can get them at a decent rate it's reasonable for what they do. free agency rarely works out well and the current system has fewer top guys hitting the market anyways.

it feels like it's more of a "well if we don't re-sign the sedins, wtf are we gonna do for a 1st line? with sundin as a meh, we're supposed to sign 3 top forwards?"
 
2009-06-19 10:00:29 AM  

whereisian: Prime example: Dany Heatley *spit*


That's not the one the Sens should be embarassed about.

No trade clauses for Mr Carrie Underwood and Daniel "Tin Man" Alfredsson?
 
2009-06-19 10:09:01 AM  
Athletic twins? Why I...oh. They're dudes.

Nevermind.
 
2009-06-19 10:39:03 AM  
4NSpy 2009-06-18 10:50:55 PM

If Bettman had his way, OV would be on the Wings. Gary has been giving Detroit so many breaks over the years that it's obvious that the wings are his favourite in the West.

The Troll is heavy with this one.

[Minus Infinity]/10.
 
2009-06-19 10:43:10 AM  
How is this bad? They are giving the Canucks a break. They could easily command more money in other markets if they wished. I'd love to pick them up to play with my Caps.

Sedin - Sedin - Semin

How's that for secondary scoring? Stanley Cup plz.
 
2009-06-19 10:46:24 AM  

thegod082: I don't know much about hockey contracts, but -- by all other sports' standards -- that isn't too awful, assuming they are quality players.

/doesn't know who they are
//DNRTFA


The salary cap in the NHL is 56.7 million. Giving the Sedins what they want would be a 10.25M cap hit, every year for the next 12 years. While a premium player can get that (Henrik Zetterberg with Detroit has a contract of 12 years, 73M), the Sedins are good, but not worth the gamble.
 
2009-06-19 10:50:06 AM  

Sword and Shield: thegod082: I don't know much about hockey contracts, but -- by all other sports' standards -- that isn't too awful, assuming they are quality players.

/doesn't know who they are
//DNRTFA

The salary cap in the NHL is 56.7 million. Giving the Sedins what they want would be a 10.25M cap hit, every year for the next 12 years. While a premium player can get that (Henrik Zetterberg with Detroit has a contract of 12 years, 73M), the Sedins are good, but not worth the gamble.


What? You get two PPG players that can play on the top line for a pretty decent price. I'd take them in a heartbeat for that. They could easily get more money if they asked from another club.
 
2009-06-19 10:57:33 AM  
12 years is insane. This is gonna come back to bite these guys in the ass.
 
2009-06-19 11:45:22 AM  
How do you guys have a problem signing two point per game players to a cap hit of $5.25M a year? If Vancouver balks at the 12 year term they will have to offer over $6M a year to keep the Twins in town, which leaves less money to sign role players to help the team now. The Sedins could command $6.5M on the open market if they don't mind being split up. There are GMs out there who would make that offer in a heartbeat.
 
2009-06-19 12:13:22 PM  
Is this some sort of hockey joke that I don't get?? They are really twins on the same team? Sounds like some sort of gay Disney movie.
 
2009-06-19 12:16:41 PM  

NeilB1979: Is this some sort of hockey joke that I don't get?? They are really twins on the same team? Sounds like some sort of gay Disney movie.


Yep, Henrik and Daniel Sedin. Twins.

Rectum damn near killed em: How do you guys have a problem signing two point per game players to a cap hit of $5.25M a year? If Vancouver balks at the 12 year term they will have to offer over $6M a year to keep the Twins in town, which leaves less money to sign role players to help the team now. The Sedins could command $6.5M on the open market if they don't mind being split up. There are GMs out there who would make that offer in a heartbeat.


My problem is one of length. I don't like decade-long contracts- even Zetterberg. I would have been much more comfortable with 8 years, around 50M.
 
2009-06-19 12:33:16 PM  

swahnhennessy: Ugh. They're not going to play for 12 years. The contracts are front-loaded, giving them the bulk of the money in the first half of the deal. They'll make the majority of the contact in 8 years, after which it'll drop off to, say, $1M per season. At that point, they're old, they go back to play for Modo, having earned almost all of the money, anyway, and those contracts are off the books. As for them falling off their pace - as with Zetterberg, they've been very consistent. We're not talking about some flash-in-the-pan. Is there a chance that one or both could go cold? Sure, but the prospects of that are slim, and for a GM hoping to squeeze all he can from the cap, it's an easy gamble to make. No doubt it will bite a few guys in the ass - look at DiPietro in New York - but I think it's a sensible strategy given what it can do for a club (see: Detroit).


After 35 (?) the contracts no longer come off the books. They are still on the cap.

Tsk tsk, ENI.
 
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