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(Time)   The Iranian Revolution thread XV, sponsored by Energizer Batteries. It goes on.. and on.. and on.. and on.. and on   (time.com) divider line 1856
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8338 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2009 at 1:49 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-06-16 11:21:05 PM
I have added a new section about other major players in this revolution.

Nothing much different has happened in the last 12 hours. There are reports of clerics and ayatollahs meeting in the holy Shiite city of Qom in order to plan to overthrow Khameini as supreme leader, as well as a more and more pro-dissenters stance from the army, but we have nothing substantiated so far. There is another huge protest going on at the moment, there is a general strike by Moussavi protesters, and Basij forces are still raiding dorms, attacking Universities and so on. The only difference now is that some of them have been dressing in green, pretending to be Moussavi supporters and destroying buildings, including the French Embassy, trying to blame them on State Television. The French themselves do not believe that pro-Moussavi forces are responsible for this.

As of 18PM on the East Coast, all twitter posts about the army being involved are false. Warning, new twitter feeds are most likely government members trying to spread misinformation, ignore them! Also, there is a handful of good twitter feeds, but please do not publicize their usernames, they are in enough danger as it is and they don't need more publiclity. Those in the know will c/p their entries. Major timeline overhaul, including what has unfolded in the last few hours.

This seems to be helping quite a few people, so I'll go ahead and repost it in every threads with some adjustments. Sorry, this has reached the level of TL;DR but I really am trying to cram the most relevant information and speculation only. Everything is updated as events unfold, especially the timeline and what will happen in the future.

Suppression of Dissent - The Players

Currently, there are either two or three groups who are suppressing the students on the ground that you'll read about throughout this thread:


1. The Basij
2. Ansar Hizbullah (which I will refer to as Ansar)
3. Lebanese Hizbullah (Unconfirmed but highly probable. Der Spiegel, based on a Voice of America report, says that 5,000 Hizbullah fighters are currently in Iran masquerading as riot police, confirming the independent reports. Many different independent reports and video point that way. Even in the last hours other independent twitter feeds have declared witnessing thugs beating on people while shouting in Arabic; I will refer to them as Hizbullah)

- The Basij are your regular paramilitary organization. They are the armed hand of the clerics. The Basij are a legal group, officially a student union, and are legally under direct orders of the Revolutionary Guard. Their main raison d'être is to quell dissent. They are the ones who go and crack skulls, force people to participate in pro-regime demonstrations, and generally try to stop any demonstrations from even starting. They are located throughout the country, in every mosque, every university, every social club you can think of. They function in a way very similar to the brownshirts.

They were the ones who first started the crackdown after the election, but it wasn't enough. While they are violent and repressive, they are still Persian and attacking fellow citizens. A beating is one thing, mass killings another.

- Another group was working with them, whose members are even more extreme, is Ansar. There is a lot of cross-membership between the Basij and Ansar, though not all are members of the other group and vice-versa. The vast majority of Ansar are Persians (either Basij or ex-military), though a lot of Arab recruits come from Lebanon and train with them under supervision of the Revolutionary Guard. They are not functioning under a legal umbrella, they are considered a vigilante group, but they pledge loyalty directly to the Supreme Leader and most people believe that they are under his control. They are currently helping the Basij to control the riots, but due to the fact that they are Persians and in lower numbers than the Basij, they are not that active.

- The Lebanese Hizbullah is a direct offshoot (and under direct control) of the Iranian Hizbullah (itself under direct control of the Supreme Leader) and cooperates closely with Ansar though Ansar occupies itself only with Iran's domestic policies, while Hizbullah occupies itself only with Iran's foreign policy unless there is a crisis like right now. However, Hizbullah has been called to stop violent riots in Iran in the past.

(the following paragraph includes some speculation based on reports from ground zero) Hizbullah flew in a lot of their members in Iran, most likely a good deal even before the elections in case there were trouble. They are the ones who speak Arabs and are unleashing the biggest level of violence on the Persians so far. Another wave arrived recently and there is chatter that yet another wave of Hizbullah reinforcements are coming in from Lebanon as we speak. According to Iranians on the ground, they are the ones riding motorcycles, beating men women and children indiscriminately and firing live ammunitions at students.

Other Players

Decided to create this section in order to give a wider range of explanations for people who might not be too familiar with Iran's internal politics and structure.

1. The Police

Iran's police is not dissimilar to your run-of-the-mill law enforcement in other dictatorships, with the difference that they are not generally as brutal and repressive. This is because the Basij are generally in charge of these activities, meaning that Iranian policemen generally concentrate more on the law and order aspect of Iranian daily life.

Today, it is thought that the Iranian police numbers close to 60,000 members, in contrast with up to a million Basij members. This is one of the reasons why we hear much more about the plainclothes militia than we do about the police right now, the other being that the Basij and Ansar are much more willing to violently assault their fellow citizens than even the regular police force. This is not as much a testament to the decency of your average police officers as much as a damning report of what the Basij and Ansar thugs are like.

There are also subdivisions and extra-legal forces attached to the police force. The major subdivision would be the riot police (So-called Unit 110) who are actually much more violent than regular police officers, but also in much, much smaller numbers. There is also VEVAK, the secret police. Very little is known and confirmed about them, except their extreme tactics include murder, kidnapping and torture.

2. The Army

In Iran, there are actually two armies. They are divided between Artesh and Pasdaran.

Artesh is the regular Military apparatus of the Republic. Their numbers, including reservists, go up to a million members, but only half of them have received anything more than very basic training. As it is often the case in police states, there is very little known and confirmed about the structure of the Army itself.

They were created prior to the Iranian Revolution, in fact this army has existed in one form or another, and is a continuation, for more than 2,500 years. This is not as impressive as it sounds, however, as they often underwent drastic changes, there is no real links between the current incarnations, and the top echelons were most often purged when new rulers took power. In fact, in the last 100 years, those purges happened between two or three times, depending on the count, the last time centered around the time of the Islamic revolution, when most generals were forced to flee, killed, or killed while in exile.

Artesh took the brunt of the military casualties during the Iran-Iraq war, the army is considered to very nationalist and not extremely religious, which explains why they have declared their neutrality and refusal to repress the situation, as they see their purpose to defend the Iranian population.

Everyone agrees they will be the ultimate key to this Revolution when they finally decide to take a side, or alternatively force the Pasdaran to stay on the sidelines with them.

Pasdaran, also known as Iranian Revolutionary Guard

The Iranian Ground forces (I will focus on them, as the Navy and Airforce are currently irrelevant, will update if the situation changes) have been estimated between 100,000 and 130,000 units total. As always, truth most likely resides somewhere in the middle. They are, much like the Basij and Ansar, subservient directly to the Supreme Leader, and ideologically created in the spirit of defending the Islamic Revolution ideals and Republic, not Iran per se. They also control the Basij.

They are a child of the revolution, and they are more geared toward guerilla warfare than they are for military engagements. They are also the force responsible for training the various terrorist groups financed and supported by the Iranian government. They are fanatically devoted to the Republic through intense indoctrination.

The elite troops are called Quds. They are considered the elite of the elite, but they only number between 2000-6000, although rumours say that they are twice or three time as big. They are, however, rumours and quite unlikely.

Ultimately, the Revolutionary Council and the Supreme Leader will call on them if they think they are on the verge of losing power, however it is unlikely that the army will just stay on the sidelines if this happens.

3. The Revolutionary Council

The Revolutionary Council was created by Ayatollah Khomeini shortly before the Iranian Revolution. Since then, they have sat as the real authority of Iran. The council is made up of Ayatollahs, and they are the ones who dictate every little facet of Iranian life, making the position of President mostly irrelevant, as they do not take any major decisions without first asking permission from Khameini and his cronies. They do not have any qualms about hiding this, as the head of the Council is called "Supreme Leader".

The very goal of this revolution has become not only to elect Moussavi as President, but also elect Grand Ayatollah Montazeri as Supreme Leader. GA Montazeri has been calling for a separation of Mosque and State, and transferring most powers of the Supreme Leader to the President, including control of the Armed Forces.

4. The Grand Ayatollahs

The Grand Ayatollahs are Shiite clerics who first attained the position of Ayatollahs and then, through their knowledge of Islamic Jurisprudence, attained a supreme position and are regarded as the most important voice in Shia Islam today. They center around the holy Shiite city of Qom, though some live outside Iran.


What will happen

Unless the army decides to intervene in the favor of the Council and to stop the early beginnings of the new Revolution, Ansar & Hizbullah members will be the ones doing the brunt of the killing and repression with Basij as a support while also protecting government buildings and try to do crowd control. The police seems to have for the most part disbanded in centers like Tehran according to all reports, including international media. If the police decides to come back, they will focus less on protection and crowd control, so the Basij will start to crack more skulls).

Currently, this is what is happening. Regarding the repression of dissent.

As for the political scene, the majority of Grand Ayatollahs who expressed an opinion on this have sided with the protesters/against the results of the election. They are GA Ardebili, GA Montazeri, GA Shirazi, GA Golpaygani and GA Sanei. The only Grand Ayatollah who has sided in favor of the election results is Khameini, who is also the Supreme Leader of the Revolutionary Council, and the facto ruler of Iran.

Timeline
note: I built this through both articles and twitter feeds, so I do not claim that this is a 100% factually correct representation of reality, but this is the general narrative.

14th of June - While the previous day had been witness to some protests, they were for the most part peaceful. However, as time grew the protests turned more and more violent. When the first spontaneous riots erupted, the first wave of violence was unleashed. The Iranian Riot Police was called in to support the regular police officers controlling the protests, and shortly after the Basij also took the scene, moving from a passive to active role of repression. The RP concentrated mostly around public buildings and streets while the Basij took position around student groups, especiallly universities.

- As things got more out of hand, more and more Basij troops were called in, as the police started dispersing. The riot police are less inclined (or, rather I should say the Basij are more inclined) to use violence so they retreated and leaving the place to the Basij. The repressive forces concentrated their assault mostly around the main Iranian universities, while the riot police were concentrating on protecting various government buildings such as the Interior Ministry. At least two people had been killed already.

- On the telecommunication front, this is when we started to hear more and more from twitters while videos were being freely updated to youtube (while youtube started to delete the more violent ones a few hours later). This is also the moment where the government realized what was happening, and ordered for the internet, phone lines and cellphones to be cut off, in order to avoid people communicating with the outside world.

late 14th, early 15th of June - This is the second wave of violent repression. At this point, violent riots had spread all over the main cities of Iran. The violence against citizens was not only the fruit of the Basij anymore, but also came from Ansar Hizbullah members. This is the point where firearms started being used. There were reports of a few murders but it was mostly fired in the air or on walls in order to scare away protesters in University dorms. It's also around the same time that the first reports and videos of an important number of non-Persian thugs shouting in Arabic and violently beating people with chains, clubs and electric batons (similar to cattle prods), which led to many speculating that lebanese Hizbullah members were now in Iran. Der Spiegel, through Voice of America, later claimed that 5000 Hizbullah fighters were passing off as Riot Police, validating the claims of many independent sources and twitter feeds.

- Universities have been the hotbed of protests, serving as a hub of anti-government demonstrations and preparations. 120 teachers from the Sharid University resigned in protest over the election results. Perfectly away of this, the Basij, Ansar and possibly Hizbullah members concentrated their attacks on University Dorms all over the country, storming them and beating students, destroying everything, especially computers.

- The end of the second wave came right before the beginning of the current manifestation. Things were getting quieter with only sporadic reports of dissenters being assaulted. Important to note: at this time. the Supreme Leader authorized the plainclothes militias to use live ammunition against the crowd if things were to get out of hands. By the end of the first two waves of protests, hundreds of people had been arrested.

midday, 15th of June - This brings us to the third wave, which just began around 12:30PM for those of us on the East Coast. Plainclothes militia opened fire on civilians protesting peacefully. Possibly up to 2 million protesters took the street. Chaos erupted in the streets, with reports of fighting all over Tehran and spreading over Iran as the news circulated. Pictures of people shot, some to death, finally surfaced and were published in the mainstream media. Violent and murderous repression has started. At least a twenty people had been killed at this by the end of the 15th of June.

- There is a major national crackdown on students, especially those with connections to the outside world going on right now. Students are fighting back in some areas. Telephones are being bugged and everyone twittering and sending videos outside of Iran are being rounded up. ISPs were shut down, government hackers are threatening people who twitter, and some of them have vanished in the last 24 hours.

- Eventually, the people started to fight back. First, they took over and burned down a Basij base, killing its commander. Later, a Basij shot a young man in the face in front of their HQ, at which point a policeman went to confront them. The Basij beat the policeman, at which point students stormed the compound, throwing molotov cocktails, burning it to the ground.

- During the night, the police entered certain neighbourhood to arrest public servants and force them to appear at tomorrow's pro-Ahmadinejad manifestation, but the people went out in the street and forced them out of their neighbourhoods. The Basij have kept on storming dorms. So far the reports are conflicting, but it appears that the death toll could be as high as 40 for the protesters, with two dead on the side of the repressive militias. This is the end of the third wave.

early 16th of June - Supporters of Moussavi have a manifestation planned for 5pm, Tehran time. Roughly the same number or more is expected to attend. People are dressed in black and told to protest silently.

- The pro-Ahmadinejad crowd however are planning a counter-demonstration at the very same place the supporters are supposed to gather at 3pm. Most agree that basically they are simply going to gather for a confrontation. Rumours are that they are taking position in buildings next to the parade and in bunkers to attack. Basij from all over the country are moving to Tehran and supporters are being bused from all over the country. A major showdown is expected to unfold.

- The crackdown on people using telecommunication is as strong as ever. Anyone with a laptop, camera or cellphone is attacked in the street by plainclothes militias. Tehran hotels are under lockdown to prevent the members of the foreign press not yet expulsed from reporting what is happening.

- As for the Iranian Government and different branches, there are rumours that many Army Generals have been arrested for plotting a Coup d'État, but this is still speculation at this point. The Supreme Leader has also called for a 10-day inquiry into the claims of fraud, but it has been widely dismissed as cosmetic. Moussavi and his supporters have rejected this, claiming that they want new elections. Khameini is now using the armed Basij as his own bodyguards, hundreds of them are surround him and his residence to protect from attempted assassinations. Ahmadinejad himself is in Russia right now, for a planned visit, and tries to pretend that everything is good as usual.

midday 16th of June to early 17th of June - The fourth wave of violence has started, and was expected to flare up very soon. It surprisingly was quite mild. Pro-Moussavi supporters said that there were even more people today protesting against the regime, though raw numbers are hard to get. If this is true, it means there are more than 2M protesters in the street right now. They are dressed in black and protesting silently and without violence so far. Other reports that only 250,000 were in the street, possibly scared by the Basij and propaganda.

- The Basij, surprisingly, did not attacking the march itself but rather assaulted dorms again. It looks like they are using the march as a diversion. In Tehran proper, 2000 Basij are waiting to storm the male dorm, and they are backed by IRG helicopters, which seems to send the message that the IRG has broken from their undeclared neutrality toward tacitely supporting the Regime.

- The crackdown on telecommunications is starting to suffocate all of Iran. As of now:

* Gmail and GTalk are shut down
* Yahoo is shut down
* AIM is most likely shut down
* Phone lines are down
* HTTPS and other such protocols are down
* Iranian ISPs have been shut down
* They are trying very hard to close down the Iranian connexion to twitter and giving proxies they control in order to track down people
* Cellphones and SMS are shut down

People are also receiving phone calls from the government saying "We know you were in the protests".

Night fell on Iran, and the Basij were roaming, attacking passerbys at random. They had also surrounded dorms and stormed them once again.

morning of the 17th of June - With the end of the fourth wave of violence, we are currently in a wait and see mode. As of right now, there are many rumors involving clerics, Ayatollahs and the Army plotting to overthrow the government, semi-confirmations from credible twitterers, but nothing concrete so far. These would be extremely big development, so it's better to treat them with caution.

Aside from what is written at the top of this post, nothing has happened that isn't unsubstantiated rumour or minor.

The revolution lives on. Long live the revolution!

Demands from the protesters

1. Dismissal of Khamenei for not being a fair leader
2. Dismissal of Ahmadinejad for his illegal acts
3. Temporary appointment of Ayatollah Montazeri as the Supreme Leader
4. Recognition of Mousavi as the President
5. Forming the Cabinet by Mousavi to prepare for revising the Constitution
6. unconditional and immediate release of all political prisoners
7. Dissolution of all organs of repression, public or secret.

Who is Grand Ayatollah Montazeri?

Ayatollah Montazeri is a pro-Democracy, pro-Human Rights Ayatollah who was at one point on the short list of possible successors of Khomeini, but became marginalized as he adopted what was seen as a too pro-Western, pro-Democracy stance.

Since the beginning of the Revolution, he has been one of the fiercest critics of the Regime, and one of the biggest proponents of women and civil rights for ALL Iranians, including much-maligned minorities like the Baha'is. In fact he goes further than the protections afforded to them under Sharia.

He is also a big critic of Ahmadinejad and has been seen for years as the best hope for Iran if he ever was to come to power, something that was unthinkable a mere week ago.

He has also come out with a statement saying that policemen who beat on protesters and follow orders will not be forgiven under Islam, and that even if the government cuts the lines of communication with the outside world, that it was too late and the truth was getting out

Links

For further information on the Basij, Global Security has a good article about the history of the Basij.

CNN has a good article where eyewitnesses describe the type of violence usually unleashed by the Basij.

Here is another good article from GS again giving more background information on the ruthless Ansar thugs.

BBC profile of Grand Ayatollah Montazeri

important: The Iranian government is looking for dissident twitterers, so if you have an account, change your location and timezone to tehran!

regarding the supposed numbers received by all three candidates giving Moussavi the winner and Ahmadinejad third with 7M votes: The only confirmation is an Iranian journalist. We don't have any external data confirming those numbers. 7M for Ahmadinejad seems quite low, so treat this as an unsubstantiated rumour for the moment
 
2009-06-17 11:02:00 AM
If we are going to have perpetual threads about the Middle East being unstable

Why not have perpetual threads about how much Detroit sucks?

It's not like either will ever change
 
2009-06-17 11:02:10 AM
Why didn't you put "Part 15"?
 
2009-06-17 11:02:46 AM
eqtworld: If we are going to have perpetual threads about the Middle East being unstable

Why not have perpetual threads about how much Detroit sucks?

It's not like either will ever change


If you're just on fark to be a dick, why not be a dick somewhere else?
 
2009-06-17 11:03:21 AM
We need a summary, stat!
 
2009-06-17 11:03:41 AM
eqtworld: If we are going to have perpetual threads about the Middle East being unstable

Why not have perpetual threads about how much Detroit sucks?

It's not like either will ever change


Wow.. I havnt seen someone miss the point so badly since.. well.. ever!
 
2009-06-17 11:05:20 AM
From NR:

the riot police i saw has hamas flag on sleeve #gr88 #iranelection
 
2009-06-17 11:05:47 AM
Paging TATSUMA! UPDATE PREASE!
 
2009-06-17 11:05:59 AM
JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: Wow.. I havnt seen someone miss the point so badly since.. well.. ever!

Does the point involve oral sex between deities?

Epiphany: If you're just on fark to be a dick, why not be a dick somewhere else?

I see you've never been to Detroit
 
2009-06-17 11:06:01 AM
Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)
 
2009-06-17 11:07:05 AM
Gsm136: Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)

Could be NSFW.

Police man be turning to Mousavi #Iranelection #Iranelections #tehran #gr88

OG
 
2009-06-17 11:07:28 AM
Gsm136: Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)


I don't think OG is legit at all. She posts some things other legit people say, but then posts a bunch of wild and crazy speculation.
 
2009-06-17 11:07:45 AM
brigid_fitch: From NR:

the riot police i saw has hamas flag on sleeve #gr88 #iranelection


Has NR been a reliable tweeter?
 
2009-06-17 11:09:17 AM
Epiphany: Gsm136: Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)

I don't think OG is legit at all. She posts some things other legit people say, but then posts a bunch of wild and crazy speculation.


She lives in the UK, she's been reliable, but shes getting her info from another source, so her info is already second- or third-hand when she posts it.. so shes LESS reliable than PK or CfI, just as reliable as SA, but more reliable than just about everyone else
 
2009-06-17 11:10:28 AM
KaponoFor3: Has NR been a reliable tweeter?

She's more personal than PK, at first I was sceptical but more I read the more convinced I am.
 
2009-06-17 11:11:07 AM
JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: Epiphany: Gsm136: Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)

I don't think OG is legit at all. She posts some things other legit people say, but then posts a bunch of wild and crazy speculation.

She lives in the UK, she's been reliable, but shes getting her info from another source, so her info is already second- or third-hand when she posts it.. so shes LESS reliable than PK or CfI, just as reliable as SA, but more reliable than just about everyone else


Are you sure she's just as reliable as SA? I don't think SA posts nearly as much wild speculations as she does.
 
2009-06-17 11:11:44 AM
eqtworld: Why not have perpetual threads about how much Detroit sucks?

[obvious] Detroit Sucks (1)

Weeners: yup
 
2009-06-17 11:12:56 AM
can someone email or DM me NR's twitter? TIA
 
2009-06-17 11:13:12 AM
Where are the contested results (PDF) (new window)


Iran protests: live

As the Iranian authorities continue their crackdown on opposition rallies, foreign journalists, and the internet, what next for the protest movement? Follow live updates on the aftermath of Iran's disputed presidential election

The Guardian (UK) (new window)
 
2009-06-17 11:13:37 AM
Gsm136: Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)


That's horrible
 
2009-06-17 11:15:04 AM
Epiphany: JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: Epiphany: Gsm136: Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)

I don't think OG is legit at all. She posts some things other legit people say, but then posts a bunch of wild and crazy speculation.

She lives in the UK, she's been reliable, but shes getting her info from another source, so her info is already second- or third-hand when she posts it.. so shes LESS reliable than PK or CfI, just as reliable as SA, but more reliable than just about everyone else

Are you sure she's just as reliable as SA? I don't think SA posts nearly as much wild speculations as she does.


She speculates, but I still think shes reliable. She's the last of the 4 I check when I refresh every few minutes, but shes still better than the rest
 
2009-06-17 11:17:01 AM
JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: Epiphany: JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: Epiphany: Gsm136: Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)

I don't think OG is legit at all. She posts some things other legit people say, but then posts a bunch of wild and crazy speculation.

She lives in the UK, she's been reliable, but shes getting her info from another source, so her info is already second- or third-hand when she posts it.. so shes LESS reliable than PK or CfI, just as reliable as SA, but more reliable than just about everyone else

Are you sure she's just as reliable as SA? I don't think SA posts nearly as much wild speculations as she does.

She speculates, but I still think shes reliable. She's the last of the 4 I check when I refresh every few minutes, but shes still better than the rest


Surely better than the rest, but I've been sticking mainly to PK, CFI, and SA and they don't seem to post things that are wild and speculative without saying it's a rumor.
 
2009-06-17 11:17:15 AM
Does anyone have a link to photos from today? Probably a stupid question, but I've only seen the ones from a couple days ago.
 
2009-06-17 11:17:22 AM
JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: She speculates, but I still think shes reliable. She's the last of the 4 I check when I refresh every few minutes, but shes still better than the rest

Speculation with occasional actual news that seems to be legit.
A lot of sources are far worse, indeed, but we're fark. We want our news to be top notch, our beer cool and tasty, and our boobies bouncy and pretty.
 
2009-06-17 11:19:35 AM
eqtworld: If we are going to have perpetual threads about the Middle East being unstable

Why not have perpetual threads about how much Detroit sucks?

It's not like either will ever change


Most people already know that Detroit is a mess & don't generate 500 posts/hr to talk about it.

A real time revolution OTOH...

/been lurking & reading as much as possible
//cool to watch history being formed in front of your eyes
 
2009-06-17 11:20:38 AM
Cinaed: JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: She speculates, but I still think shes reliable. She's the last of the 4 I check when I refresh every few minutes, but shes still better than the rest

Speculation with occasional actual news that seems to be legit.
A lot of sources are far worse, indeed, but we're fark. We want our news to be top notch, our beer cool and tasty, and our boobies bouncy and pretty.


Exactly, its good to see posts from OG and NR but people need to know they aren't 100 percent legit like PK, SA, CFI.
 
2009-06-17 11:21:06 AM
static.guim.co.uk

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2009/jun/17/iran-uprising
 
2009-06-17 11:21:31 AM
KaponoFor3: brigid_fitch: From NR:

the riot police i saw has hamas flag on sleeve #gr88 #iranelection

Has NR been a reliable tweeter?


She's certainly more dramatic than the others and I was dubious at first (her tweets were coming in too quickly for someone who was supposedly under siege). But she's gotten some good information. She doesn't have an agenda like the other guys--she's just reporting what she sees and how she feels about it.
 
2009-06-17 11:22:29 AM
Link (new window)

Quick recap of whats come out of Iran in the past hour.
 
2009-06-17 11:22:55 AM
The world has turned upside down, here's the Good/Bad surprises of the weekend/week:

Good:
People of Iran
Twitter
Fark.com
Tatsuma, Persepolis, and many other Farkers who are too numerous to all credit here
4chan
Fox News Channel
BBC
Al-Jezeera

Bad:
CNN
Basij


It's a snowy day in Hell.
Oh, and bacon showers are predicted in various places worldwide.
Slight update to include Al Jazeera (sp?) in the good list.
 
2009-06-17 11:23:32 AM
Epiphany: JesusGaveMuhammadAFacial: Epiphany: Gsm136: Quick recap from the past few Minutes.

Unconfirmed reports are that the Iranian Police have arrested Basiji at Tehran University and Vanak.

Theres a rumour from OG that Mullahs are booking flights outta dodge.

Mousavi will join protestor on the streets tomorrow in memory those been killed.

Something is happening in Isfahan, despite threats of execution Video of the Aftermath can be found here (new window)

I don't think OG is legit at all. She posts some things other legit people say, but then posts a bunch of wild and crazy speculation.

She lives in the UK, she's been reliable, but shes getting her info from another source, so her info is already second- or third-hand when she posts it.. so shes LESS reliable than PK or CfI, just as reliable as SA, but more reliable than just about everyone else

Are you sure she's just as reliable as SA? I don't think SA posts nearly as much wild speculations as she does.


I use OG & NR as secondary. OG's not in the fray like PK, SA, & CfI; she gets some good intel, but is quick to post rather than confirm it. NR has dramatic posts, but at least they're first-hand and less speculative than OG.
 
2009-06-17 11:23:56 AM
link (new window)

Mass Arrests and Detentions Signal Increasing Repression

"A purge of reform-oriented individuals...."

(17 June 2009) The International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran reported today that several dozen notable figures including Saeed Hajjarian, Mohammad Ali Abtahi, Behzad Nabavi, and Abdolfattah Soltani were arrested on 16 June 2009. Hajjarian was an advisor to former president Mohammad Khatami and Abtahi was director of Khatami's office during his presidency and is now a senior adviser to Mehdi Karroubi. Nabavi is a former member of parliament and Minister of Industry and Mining. Soltani is a leading human rights lawyer and member of the Defenders of Human Rights Center.

The detainees include numerous political figures, intellectuals, civil leaders, human rights activists, and journalists, as well as a large but unknown number of ordinary citizens who have taken part in street demonstrations since the disputed 12 June presidential elections.

"Iranian intelligence and security forces are using the public protests to engage in what appears to be a major purge of reform-oriented individuals whose situations in detention could be life-threatening," according to Aaron Rhodes, a spokesperson for the Campaign.

"The authorities are responsible for the health and safety of these people and should be held accountable," he added.

The Campaign expressed serious concerns for the health and safety of Hajjarian, who was the target of an assassination attempt by extremists. In 2000, he was shot in the head, suffering serious brain and spinal cord injuries. He is in urgent need of continuous medical care and authorities have not provided any information about his whereabouts or conditions. Hajjarian has been under the constant care of several doctors, including Dr. Taghi Kimya-Asadi, a neurologist in Washington who travels often to Iran.

Dr. Kimya-Asadi told the Campaign: "He has been left with great difficulty walking, suffering much pain and discomfort. He is in need of multiple medications, including Mysoline, Inderal, & Trileptal, that I prescribed for him, among others that have been prescribed by his other medical doctors in Iran. He is in need of constant nursing care, as well as physical therapy. Detention is extremely detrimental to his well-being and puts his life in danger. Especially if there is any interruption in his medication which may cause a serious life threatening situation in the case of sudden withdrawal. At home, he is under the constant medical supervision of his wife, who is a medical doctor."

According to Nobel Peace Laureate Shirin Ebadi, her colleague Abdolfattah Soltani, one of Iran's leading human rights lawyers, was arrested by security officers who entered his office posing as clients. He was a member of the Arbitrary Detentions Investigation Committee. The other member of this Committee, Alireza Tajik and Kayvan Samimi were arrested two days ago. Shiva Nazarahari, a human rights defender, and Mahsa Amrabadi, a journalist, are also among the detainees.

Also arrested was a former spokesperson for Khatami, Abdolah Ramezanzadeh, who also served as governor of Kurdistan, and Mostafa Tajzadeh, a political figure who was in charge of conducting elections in the Interior Ministry when Khatami was in office. Other members of Mehdi Karroubi's campaign staff in Tehran and Tabriz, including Bagher Oskouiee and Amir Mardani, have also been arrested.

Other well-known political figures who have been arrested include Mohsen Aminzadeh, Mohammad Atrianfar, and Mohammad Tavasoli.

Three other political activists Taghi Rahmani, Reza Alijani, and Hoda Saberi were arrested on 14 June, but may have been released since.

Other detainees are members of the Nehzat Azadi, one of the oldest political parties in Iran, including Ahmad Afjeiee, Emad Bahavar, Mojtaba Khandan, Saieed Zeraatkar, Rouholah Shafiee, Ali Mehrdad, and Mohammad Reza Ahmadinia. Also arrested were members of the reformist party, Jebhe Mosharekat Islami (Islamic Participation Front), including Ali Pour Khayeri, Shahin Nourbakhsh, Ali Taghipour Mohammad Shokuhi, Ashkan Mojaleli, Maysam Varahchehre, Mahdieh Minavi, and Farhad Nasrollahpour.

There has apparently been a systematic detention of members of various civil society formations. Members of the central council of the university alumni group ADVAR, which is influential among students, were arrested including Ahmad Zaydabadi, General Secretary, Hadi Kahal, and Hamed Iranshahi.

Reports received by the Campaign from the City of Tabriz indicate that over 100 prominent civic figures in the city have also been detained including Dr. Jalil Sharabianlu, Dr. Ghafar Farzadi, Majd Jabari, Rahim Yawai, Abbas Pourazhari, Dr. Lay Farzadi, Shabeti, Shamlu, Dr. Ghafarzadeh, Dr. Soltaniazad, Dr. Panahi, Dr. Seyflou, Dr. Dadizadeh, Mehdi Yarbahrami, Mansour Ghafari, Hojatollah Amiri, Amir Hossein Jahani, Rohdah Rahimipour, and Mehdi Khodadadi.

Several reports from throughout the country indicate that many activists have disappeared, including Payam Haydar Ghazvini, Nasim Riahi, Mojtaba Rajabi, and Atar Rashidi in Ghazvin province.

The International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran calls for the immediate release of all arbitrarily detained persons. The Campaign urges the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights to urgently seek information about these cases and to demand assurances for their health and safety.
 
2009-06-17 11:25:18 AM
Woo! Tats posted! That's like an Insta-green :P
 
2009-06-17 11:26:10 AM
brigid_fitch: KaponoFor3: brigid_fitch: From NR:

the riot police i saw has hamas flag on sleeve #gr88 #iranelection

Has NR been a reliable tweeter?

She's certainly more dramatic than the others and I was dubious at first (her tweets were coming in too quickly for someone who was supposedly under siege). But she's gotten some good information. She doesn't have an agenda like the other guys--she's just reporting what she sees and how she feels about it.


NR and OG have some legit info and a lot of speculation. Take them with a grain of salt.
 
2009-06-17 11:26:30 AM
+1, still watching.

OG Haft Tir rally today bigger than ever, tomorrow aim for 2 million #Iranelection #Iranelections #gr88
less than 10 seconds ago from web
 
2009-06-17 11:27:09 AM
TATSUMA FOR PRESIDENT OF IRAN!

everyone, let's go out into the streets and holding up his picture and it'll happen!
 
2009-06-17 11:27:27 AM
Epiphany: TATSUMA FOR PRESIDENT OF IRAN!

everyone, let's go out into the streets and holding up his picture and it'll happen!


You made me hork a Cheez-It.
 
2009-06-17 11:27:57 AM
Recoil Therapy: Most people already know that Detroit is a mess & don't generate 500 posts/hr to talk about it.

Maybe we could relocate all the Iran fundies to Detroit, since they seem to love hellholes.

Recoil Therapy: A real time revolution OTOH...

Country undergoing revolution in the middle east #73 since 1900
 
2009-06-17 11:29:29 AM
Fresh protest under way in Tehran

Iranians are still managing to send photos, mobile phone video and emails to the BBC's interactive sites, despite the Iranian government's attempts to close down all media communication beyond its control.

BBC World Service (new window)
 
2009-06-17 11:29:46 AM
eqtworld: Country undergoing revolution in the middle east #73 since 1900


whats the point in pissing on the Iran threads? most people here just want to know what's happening, because CNN only cares about Palin/ Letterman.
 
2009-06-17 11:30:11 AM
Oh, I'm so glad that we have a massive threadcrapper in here even before the liters got in. No more green highlighting for you.
 
2009-06-17 11:31:26 AM
Epiphany: TATSUMA FOR PRESIDENT OF IRAN!

everyone, let's go out into the streets and holding up his picture and it'll happen!


I don't think that a job anyone wants. I mean, would YOU?
 
2009-06-17 11:31:32 AM
drew46n2: whats the point in pissing on the Iran threads? most people here just want to know what's happening, because CNN only cares about Palin/ Letterman.

Being an AWing biatch. Don't quote them, seeing their name is a win for them/
 
2009-06-17 11:32:06 AM
Ms.Maus: can someone email or DM me NR's twitter? TIA

:(


eip or @ersatzfusillade
 
2009-06-17 11:32:11 AM
Epiphany: Why didn't you put "Part 15"?

Because that's not nearly so melodramatic.
 
2009-06-17 11:33:23 AM
dreadprophet: Oh, I'm so glad that we have a massive threadcrapper in here even before the liters got in. No more green highlighting for you.



the green posting is a bit much.
 
2009-06-17 11:33:32 AM
dreadprophet: drew46n2: whats the point in pissing on the Iran threads? most people here just want to know what's happening, because CNN only cares about Palin/ Letterman.

Being an AWing biatch. Don't quote them, seeing their name is a win for them/


This is serious thread.

Let's not make jokes or talk about how much Detroit sucks.
 
2009-06-17 11:33:39 AM
Gwendolyn: Epiphany: TATSUMA FOR PRESIDENT OF IRAN!

everyone, let's go out into the streets and holding up his picture and it'll happen!

I don't think that a job anyone wants. I mean, would YOU?


Depends on the compensation package.
 
2009-06-17 11:33:41 AM
drew46n2: eqtworld: Country undergoing revolution in the middle east #73 since 1900


whats the point in pissing on the Iran threads? most people here just want to know what's happening, because CNN only cares about Palin/ Letterman.


I went off about that in class last night. Now they think I'm even more of a freak.
 
2009-06-17 11:34:08 AM
Any news on CfI, he's went dark 14 hours ago?

NR is stil posting regularly, but it's mainly about concern for her daughter.
 
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