hockeychick: The Jerk:

It doesn't, that is for a judge/jury (however it works in Canada) to decide. It's simple; I'm not going to spend $1000+ on survival equipment for a weekend hike if I don't have too. If there is a rescue service that I can rely on in the unlikely event something bad happens that's what I'm going to do. If they can't perform their job satisfactorily then they should be held accountable, volunteer or not.

If you're going on a weekend hike, chances are you're not going to veer from the trail and get lost. That practically insures that you're not going to need the services of a rescue squad. However, if you choose to leave the trail and don't take any sort of survival equipment with you then you have taken your life in your own hands.

What people don't want to realize is that just because there is a rescue group at the ready does NOT mean that they are going to be able to find and save you. You need to be responsible for your own safety. Learn your limits, learn how to survive on your own. Yes, the rescuers will come look for you, but even the most highly trained personnel may not save your sorry arse if you choose to be stupid.

Posts like this are why I love you.

Lets both get divorces and elope.
/That's right. I got married.
//just over 3 weeks ago.

I grew up and lived most of my life (so far) in the White Mountains. The following was safety gospel:

-DO NOT rely on an outside rescue. Cell phones, GPS tracking, whatever. If you get yourself in a situation where you need to be rescued you are putting the lives of decent and selfless people in danger. Not to mention cell phones and GPS have a way of not working during severe weather. That being said I bring my GPS and cell phone with me on every trip... but I assume and pretend they wont work.

-Assume that any trip you take into the woods will be overnight. You should always know how cold it gets at night and carry with you something rated to keep you warm in those temps. I always carry with me 10% extra food, a water filter, a dry set of clothes, and a sleeping bag rated to 20f... even on day hikes in the spring/fall.

-Do not wear jeans (or any form of denim). a) cotton kills b) jeans are the cellphone beltclip of the woods.


On a side note. In the White Mountains you have to pay for your rescue and can be found liable of rescuer injuries if authorities find you were acting irresponsible / not prepared. Being prepared != taking a cell phone with you or assuming if you get in trouble someone will come rescue you.

I've come to say what I have to say. The lawsuit has merit, I'm sorry you are all too dense to understand. It isn't your fault, you born that way.

amanogowa: hockeychick: The Jerk:

It doesn't, that is for a judge/jury (however it works in Canada) to decide. It's simple; I'm not going to spend $1000+ on survival equipment for a weekend hike if I don't have too. If there is a rescue service that I can rely on in the unlikely event something bad happens that's what I'm going to do. If they can't perform their job satisfactorily then they should be held accountable, volunteer or not.

If you're going on a weekend hike, chances are you're not going to veer from the trail and get lost. That practically insures that you're not going to need the services of a rescue squad. However, if you choose to leave the trail and don't take any sort of survival equipment with you then you have taken your life in your own hands.

What people don't want to realize is that just because there is a rescue group at the ready does NOT mean that they are going to be able to find and save you. You need to be responsible for your own safety. Learn your limits, learn how to survive on your own. Yes, the rescuers will come look for you, but even the most highly trained personnel may not save your sorry arse if you choose to be stupid.

Posts like this are why I love you.

Lets both get divorces and elope.
/That's right. I got married.
//just over 3 weeks ago.

Congratufarkinglations! Welcome to the world of the old married folk. Mr. Chick and I are celebrating 8 years of not killing each other this year.

Ryan2065: My test to see if they should be able to be sued is if you remove the organization from the equation, would the people have been saved earlier. If yes, then the group should be sued, if not, then even if they didn't go out once and just sat around drinking beers, they shouldn't be liable because their actions didn't hurt the situation.

That's too narrow-minded. There is such a thing as a legit lawsuit by a guilty party.

The guy made mistakes so stupid they should BOTH be DEAD. They checked out, went off course and didn't tell anyone where they were going. Nine days? He's lucky his wife's corpsicle was found at all.

But legally speaking, with an impartial judge, that would be accounted for by casual dismissal of any liability for his wife's death or the time taken to find them. HOWEVER, there is still the possibility that SAR was criminally negligent in responsibilities they VOLUNTARILY took on. Again, like you're not allowed to shout "fire" in a crowded theater that has no fire, you shouldn't be able to slap on an "SAR" badge and then just sit back and drink beers, no matter how stupid people are. If you yell "fire" in a theater, you can cause a panic that results in injuries or death. If you pretend to be SAR and not do anything, people lost in wilderness will die because they'll allocate precious time and energy trying to make it easier for you to find them while you piss on their desperation. If they were told point-blank that SAR didn't even exist, they might've focused on long-term survival and rescuing themselves instead of wasting time with distress calls that may have been ignored. At that point, the dumbass mistakes they made to get there in the first place isn't the issue anymore.

Long story short, life is complicated. We don't have all the facts. A court will have to sort out the mess.

amanogowa: The Jerk: ... Had they known that maybe they weren't competent or slow then they could have planned for contingencies, such as a GPS phone...

So in other words, they did not have a GPS phone, or plan for contingencies? The case should be dismissed on the stupidity of the plaintiff, alone, then. Seems they failed to even attempt due diligence and were much more negligent than the defendant, given your explanation.

Would a "GPS Phone" even of worked there? Would it get any signal that far into the wilderness? You would probably need a satellite phone.

Or how about real GPS so you don't get lost in the first place!

Also, you should get one of those spot devices mentioned earlier in the thread

The Jerk: I've come to say what I have to say. The lawsuit has merit, I'm sorry you are all too dense to understand. It isn't your fault, you born that way.

The Jerk: I've come to say what I have to say. The lawsuit has merit, I'm sorry you are all too dense to understand. It isn't your fault, you born that way.

If the lawsuit was against the RMCP for ingnoring reports of an SOS, then I agree. But because the douche sued everyone in spitting distance, that tells me it's more of a revenge thing.

The Jerk:
It doesn't, that is for a judge/jury (however it works in Canada) to decide. It's simple; I'm not going to spend $1000+ on survival equipment for a weekend hike if I don't have too. If there is a rescue service that I can rely on in the unlikely event something bad happens that's what I'm going to do. If they can't perform their job satisfactorily then they should be held accountable, volunteer or not.

It's official, you're a farking douchebag. You are saying that you are willing to go into the backwoods and assume that you are safe and will be rescued if something bad happens. To top it off you are not willing to spend $400 on a device to protect you if you get lost but you are willing to sue those people who VOLUNTEER to help find your sorry ass if they don't do it quick enough.

Skip the triple lattes, sell the iPhone, and take some responsibility for your own life....or stay the fark out of the woods.

/Darwin definitely needs to meet up with your sorry ass

Have him and his lawyer dropped in the middle of the wilderness. Leave them until one eats the other.
(My money is on the lawyer- they are already used to feeding on others.)

Should one make it back to camp alive, shoot them in the head and dump the body in the nearest storm drain.



/obligatory
//and well deserved

naris: amanogowa: The Jerk: ... Had they known that maybe they weren't competent or slow then they could have planned for contingencies, such as a GPS phone...

So in other words, they did not have a GPS phone, or plan for contingencies? The case should be dismissed on the stupidity of the plaintiff, alone, then. Seems they failed to even attempt due diligence and were much more negligent than the defendant, given your explanation.

Would a "GPS Phone" even of worked there? Would it get any signal that far into the wilderness? You would probably need a satellite phone.

Or how about real GPS so you don't get lost in the first place!

Also, you should get one of those spot devices mentioned earlier in the thread

With my GPS phone, even if I do not have cell coverage, I can still use the GPS functions -- and as far as I know most phones are like that (some you have to have service to download the GPS app the first time, but once you have it it is good to go without a signal) and a GPS phone is a common item these days.

The Spot is a great item if you are willing to pay a little extra, but having *something* is expected.

hockeychick: What people don't want to realize is that just because there is a rescue group at the ready does NOT mean that they are going to be able to find and save you.

That may be what the guy in TFA is saying, but legally, "be able to" is not the issue.

The question here is what they did in the days after they received the first SOS signals. If it turns out SAR gave an honest effort, the lawsuit should get tossed. If they VOLUNTEER for SAR, SAY they're SAR, have SAR mentioned in resort fliers (even as a disclaimer) and otherwise have any public profile whatsoever and DIDN'T TRY to find them, then they're liable.

DslainteC: About 18 months ago I was involved in a car accident. A woman went through a stop sign and pulled right in front of me. I could do nothing but smash into her. All witnesses and the police concluded that she was 100% at fault. A few days ago I was informed that she is suing me for damages because, according to her scumbag personal injury lawyer, the accident was solely my fault.

All that leads me to write this:

As someone who is being sued by a person who can't accept responsibility for their own mistakes, I wish this Quebec asshole and the parasite suing me were getting sharp kicks in the head while I get a kick out of this thread.

I had a similiar thing happen to me. Was the woman given a ticket for running the stop sign? If so get a copy of the police report and witness accounts and you should be able to hand this biatch and her deadbeat lawyer their asses. Make sure to sue to recoup your legal fees too. It is the only way these losers learn their lesson.

BTW I won and the other person had to pay 15k out of pocket to cover my legal fees not to mention whatever his legal fees were. The idiot probably lost 40k just because he couldn't admit he was at fault.

Good luck.

Earl of Chives: That is like jumping off a bridge and then suing the fire department for not catching your ass.

No, it isn't even close to same thing. Unless you were standing on the bridge for nine days and the fire department just sat there and made jokes and while they were off on a beer run you jumped.

Yes, actually, it IS like someone jumping off a bridge and suing the fire department for not catching them.

However, to alter your scenario to fit the circumstances, it's more like some breaking into an old abandoned factory, camping out inside (out of view) for 9 days and then jumping off the roof. Then suing the fire department for not catching him.

hockeychick: The Jerk: I've come to say what I have to say. The lawsuit has merit, I'm sorry you are all too dense to understand. It isn't your fault, you born that way.

If the lawsuit was against the RMCP for ingnoring reports of an SOS, then I agree. But because the douche sued everyone in spitting distance, that tells me it's more of a revenge thing.

I don't agree with the guy, and I don't disagree with the guy. But I'm not going to dismiss what he says on the basis that they were volunteers and some misguided self-responsibilty notion. The guys wife died, it wasn't just a couple of days, if they were negligent they should be held accountable.

toekneebullard: Similar thing happened to me. Only the city admitted they had a faulty green light that gave us both greens. The woman sued ME for going at a green light. My insurance company paid her off.

She sued cause she could and she made out quite well for it.

A friend of my mother got sued by a drunk driver who crossed the center line while highly intoxicated and struck her parents' car head on, killing them both. Drunky lived, and sued the estate/surviving heir for the mental and emotional trauma of knowing he killed someone.

Mutherfarker won the first round, too. It was later thrown out as absolutely ridiculous on an appeal, but it was an expensive and emotionally taxing experience.

My wife was in a drive thru line at a fast food restaurant this morning when the guy in front of her backed into her car with his van. When they got out to see the damage (her hood is buckled, front bumper askew), he began accusing her of running into his car instead of the other way around.

She pointed out he had his reverse lights on, she was on the horn the whole time he backed up, and oh look at the pretty security camera up there that caught the whole thing on tape. Yes, let's wait for the nice policeman to hear the whole thing and get a copy of that video while he's here.

At that point the man decided it was best to let the insurance companies deal with it and they traded information.

/stupid golddiggers
//at least she will get the hood replaced
///mice put peanuts in it years ago and it rattles now

mcdavid65: Les Stroud would be ashamed have eaten them both.

FTFY


/No idiot, No law suit.

The Jerk: hockeychick: The Jerk: I've come to say what I have to say. The lawsuit has merit, I'm sorry you are all too dense to understand. It isn't your fault, you born that way.

If the lawsuit was against the RMCP for ingnoring reports of an SOS, then I agree. But because the douche sued everyone in spitting distance, that tells me it's more of a revenge thing.

I don't agree with the guy, and I don't disagree with the guy. But I'm not going to dismiss what he says on the basis that they were volunteers and some misguided self-responsibilty notion. The guys wife died, it wasn't just a couple of days, if they were negligent they should be held accountable.

So can the SAR counter-sue in your world? Since the skier *was* negligent and was skiing out of bounds, with no record, or safety equipment?

Can the estate of his wife sue him, since he is clearly at fault? Can I sue them? I mean, I am all bummed out over this story, and am afraid to ski now.

The Jerk: hockeychick: The Jerk: I've come to say what I have to say. The lawsuit has merit, I'm sorry you are all too dense to understand. It isn't your fault, you born that way.

If the lawsuit was against the RMCP for ingnoring reports of an SOS, then I agree. But because the douche sued everyone in spitting distance, that tells me it's more of a revenge thing.

I don't agree with the guy, and I don't disagree with the guy. But I'm not going to dismiss what he says on the basis that they were volunteers and some misguided self-responsibilty notion. The guys wife died, it wasn't just a couple of days, if they were negligent they should be held accountable.

It depends on what information they had to work with. If they ignored SOS reports, then yes, they are liable. If they were not made aware of that information, then can you fault them for not finding this idiot? It all depends on what they knew and when. I got the impression that the rescuers didn't know about the SOS reports because the RMCP failed to pass that tibit of information to them.

Eponymous: The Jerk:
It doesn't, that is for a judge/jury (however it works in Canada) to decide. It's simple; I'm not going to spend $1000+ on survival equipment for a weekend hike if I don't have too. If there is a rescue service that I can rely on in the unlikely event something bad happens that's what I'm going to do. If they can't perform their job satisfactorily then they should be held accountable, volunteer or not.

It's official, you're a farking douchebag. You are saying that you are willing to go into the backwoods and assume that you are safe and will be rescued if something bad happens. To top it off you are not willing to spend $400 on a device to protect you if you get lost but you are willing to sue those people who VOLUNTEER to help find your sorry ass if they don't do it quick enough.

Skip the triple lattes, sell the iPhone, and take some responsibility for your own life....or stay the fark out of the woods.

/Darwin definitely needs to meet up with your sorry ass

You're an idiot. Plain and simple. You don't know me. I spent 5 years (active) in the Army. I got out and 6 months later I was recalled from IRR (look it up) and sent to Iraq. Did i skip out of my responsibity like many others at the time were? No, I went and spent 19 months away from my wife and 2 girls. So don't lecture me on self-responsibilty.

So don't lecture me on self-responsibilty.

Eponymous: naris: That's not a GPS device, it's a "satellite messenger", which is a "handheld satellite communication device".

Wrong....

From the spot website..."Once activated, SPOT will acquire its exact coordinates from the GPS network, and send that location along with a distress message to a GEOS International Emergency Response Center every five minutes until cancelled. The Emergency Response Center notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your location and personal information - which may include local police, highway patrol, the Coast Guard, our country's embassy or consulate, or other emergency response or search and rescue teams - as well as notifying your emergency contact person(s) about the receipt of a distress signal. "

It is a GPS device with an integrated satellite messenger.

Wrong...

It is a satellite messenger with an integrated GPS device. This can NOT be compared to a GPS device, such as a tom-tom that has NO communications abilities.

Toting what most people consider a GPS device, such as a tom-tom or any of those other GPS navigation devices will NOT inform anyone else where you are.

That is wht my point was. I did NOT claim that the device in question didn't include a GPD receiver, only that is is NOt what most people cnsider a GPS device to be -- it is much more (and less, since it doesn't tell YOU where you are). This device is more like a personal on-star system than a GPS device.

The Jerk: if they were negligent they should be held accountable.

I think that volunteer search and rescue operations should be made legally immune from liability unless it can be found that their actions made the situation worse.

You can argue that what I think is right or wrong... but it would save lives.

So I'm guessing that if one of the rescuers say broke a leg while trying to find his sorry ass he'd be understanding if a lawsuit was put out against him?

The Jerk: Eponymous: The Jerk:
It doesn't, that is for a judge/jury (however it works in Canada) to decide. It's simple; I'm not going to spend $1000+ on survival equipment for a weekend hike if I don't have too. If there is a rescue service that I can rely on in the unlikely event something bad happens that's what I'm going to do. If they can't perform their job satisfactorily then they should be held accountable, volunteer or not.

It's official, you're a farking douchebag. You are saying that you are willing to go into the backwoods and assume that you are safe and will be rescued if something bad happens. To top it off you are not willing to spend $400 on a device to protect you if you get lost but you are willing to sue those people who VOLUNTEER to help find your sorry ass if they don't do it quick enough.

Skip the triple lattes, sell the iPhone, and take some responsibility for your own life....or stay the fark out of the woods.

/Darwin definitely needs to meet up with your sorry ass

You're an idiot. Plain and simple. You don't know me. I spent 5 years (active) in the Army. I got out and 6 months later I was recalled from IRR (look it up) and sent to Iraq. Did i skip out of my responsibity like many others at the time were? No, I went and spent 19 months away from my wife and 2 girls. So don't lecture me on self-responsibilty.

So don't lecture me on self-responsibilty.

A) you seem to be fighting pretty hard to claim this guy had no personal responsibility.
B) just because you skipped out on the responsibility of raising your two daughters for almost 2 years means you are immune from a lecture on responsibility? Does that mean a drunk driver that kills ought to be immune to a lecture on the dangers of drunk driving?

This story is mega frustrating. As a backcountry skiier/hiker/funhaver I hope I never encounter a situation like this. That is also the reason I let my old lady know when I am out in the backcountry, where I intend to be, and when I intend to return. I send a text while loading up my snowmobile to let her know I'm safe and all is well with the world.

Accessing Golden's backcountry is very easy, hence why many of the locals call it the slackcountry. I would be suprized if the resort lacked a check in/check out book where you can log vital information, which gets checked at the end of the day (this practice is common at other resorts, I've personally never toyed in Goldens backcountry so I am unsure)

In the end, this dude claims to be 'experienced'. By entering without his avalanche gear, or any type of navagation equipment, he has proven his inexperience.

Throw this suit out, and let the search and rescue teams get back to work, should the need arise.

hitmanric: So I'm guessing that if one of the rescuers say broke a leg while trying to find his sorry ass he'd be understanding if a lawsuit was put out against him?

Only if the rescuer was not where he was supposed to be, wearing improper clothing, and did not bother to carry the appropriate safety equipment. I mean, he was supposed to be the *rescuer* there was a feeling of security to being the rescuer rather than the rescuee.

Ryan2065: zuce: The Jerk: if they were negligent they should be held accountable.

I think that volunteer search and rescue operations should be made legally immune from liability unless it can be found that their actions made the situation worse.

You can argue that what I think is right or wrong... but it would save lives.

I don't know why people are having such a hard time with this concept...

I think most of them have never spent a night in the woods... let alone a night in the woods that you didn't plan on spending.

/done both. Alive because of a dry set of clothes, a cold weather sleeping bag, and some luck.

amanogowa: hitmanric: So I'm guessing that if one of the rescuers say broke a leg while trying to find his sorry ass he'd be understanding if a lawsuit was put out against him?

Only if the rescuer was not where he was supposed to be, wearing improper clothing, and did not bother to carry the appropriate safety equipment. I mean, he was supposed to be the *rescuer* there was a feeling of security to being the rescuer rather than the rescuee.

In New Hampshire atleast, the husband could be found liable if it was proved that he went into the woods unprepared or acted irresponsibly.

amanogowa: The Jerk: Eponymous: The Jerk:
It doesn't, that is for a judge/jury (however it works in Canada) to decide. It's simple; I'm not going to spend $1000+ on survival equipment for a weekend hike if I don't have too. If there is a rescue service that I can rely on in the unlikely event something bad happens that's what I'm going to do. If they can't perform their job satisfactorily then they should be held accountable, volunteer or not.

It's official, you're a farking douchebag. You are saying that you are willing to go into the backwoods and assume that you are safe and will be rescued if something bad happens. To top it off you are not willing to spend $400 on a device to protect you if you get lost but you are willing to sue those people who VOLUNTEER to help find your sorry ass if they don't do it quick enough.

Skip the triple lattes, sell the iPhone, and take some responsibility for your own life....or stay the fark out of the woods.

/Darwin definitely needs to meet up with your sorry ass

You're an idiot. Plain and simple. You don't know me. I spent 5 years (active) in the Army. I got out and 6 months later I was recalled from IRR (look it up) and sent to Iraq. Did i skip out of my responsibity like many others at the time were? No, I went and spent 19 months away from my wife and 2 girls. So don't lecture me on self-responsibilty.

So don't lecture me on self-responsibilty.

A) you seem to be fighting pretty hard to claim this guy had no personal responsibility.
B) just because you skipped out on the responsibility of raising your two daughters for almost 2 years means you are immune from a lecture on responsibility? Does that mean a drunk driver that kills ought to be immune to a lecture on the dangers of drunk driving?

haha, I think everyone here sees just the type of person you are. Sucks to be you.

zuce: Ryan2065: zuce: The Jerk: if they were negligent they should be held accountable.

I think that volunteer search and rescue operations should be made legally immune from liability unless it can be found that their actions made the situation worse.

You can argue that what I think is right or wrong... but it would save lives.

I don't know why people are having such a hard time with this concept...

I think most of them have never spent a night in the woods... let alone a night in the woods that you didn't plan on spending.

/done both. Alive because of a dry set of clothes, a cold weather sleeping bag, and some luck.

The best Boy Scout experience I had was the night at summer camp we went for an evening hike -- and did not get to go back to the tents. The adults planned it out so that the kids would *not* have night gear, and 'faked' getting lost. Basically they waited until we were a ways away from the camp and told us we were spending the night in the woods, with only what we had with us. Taught us a *lot* of good lessons and reinforced a bunch more.

Here's part of the problem, we have gotten so used to hearing of miraculous resuces that we have gotten the attitude that we will be rescued no matter what happens or where we are. So when someone doesn't get rescued and dies we are shocked that rescue workers are humans and fallible. People need to realize that preparing themselves is the best way to protect themselves. Rescuers cannot have positive outcomes 100% of the time, just as ER docs can save every patient that comes in the door.

The Jerk: haha, I think everyone here sees just the type of person you are. Sucks to be you.

Yeah, I guess it does. I am going to have to suffer from my feelings of personal responsibility and miss out on a lot of frivolous law suits. Sure sucks to be a responsible adult in America, now doesn't it?

hockeychick: Here's part of the problem, we have gotten so used to hearing of miraculous resuces that we have gotten the attitude that we will be rescued no matter what happens or where we are. So when someone doesn't get rescued and dies we are shocked that rescue workers are humans and fallible. People need to realize that preparing themselves is the best way to protect themselves. Rescuers cannot have positive outcomes 100% of the time, just as ER docs can save every patient that comes in the door.

Exactly, and people that do risky behavior and do nothing to mitigate the risk need to realize that, too.

amanogowa: The Jerk: haha, I think everyone here sees just the type of person you are. Sucks to be you.

Yeah, I guess it does. I am going to have to suffer from my feelings of personal responsibility and miss out on a lot of frivolous law suits. Sure sucks to be a responsible adult in America, now doesn't it?

You have no feelings of personal responsibility. Otherwise you wouldn't have suggested that I not fulfill my responsibility to the Army and blame it on my family. There's a word for people like you, they're called hypocrites (or pussies).

Put him back.

The Jerk: amanogowa: The Jerk: haha, I think everyone here sees just the type of person you are. Sucks to be you.

Yeah, I guess it does. I am going to have to suffer from my feelings of personal responsibility and miss out on a lot of frivolous law suits. Sure sucks to be a responsible adult in America, now doesn't it?

You have no feelings of personal responsibility. Otherwise you wouldn't have suggested that I not fulfill my responsibility to the Army and blame it on my family. There's a word for people like you, they're called hypocrites (or pussies).

Oh, so everything I have said about the need to take personal responsibility in this thread goes out because you think it is 'responsible' for a family man to join the military -- or for a military man to father children he will not be around to raise for a few years?

I see. This is just another aspect of you not understanding personal responsibility. Gotcha.

Has no one heard of the Good Samaritan law??

Check it out here

amanogowa: The Jerk: amanogowa: The Jerk: haha, I think everyone here sees just the type of person you are. Sucks to be you.

Yeah, I guess it does. I am going to have to suffer from my feelings of personal responsibility and miss out on a lot of frivolous law suits. Sure sucks to be a responsible adult in America, now doesn't it?

You have no feelings of personal responsibility. Otherwise you wouldn't have suggested that I not fulfill my responsibility to the Army and blame it on my family. There's a word for people like you, they're called hypocrites (or pussies).

Oh, so everything I have said about the need to take personal responsibility in this thread goes out because you think it is 'responsible' for a family man to join the military -- or for a military man to father children he will not be around to raise for a few years?

I see. This is just another aspect of you not understanding personal responsibility. Gotcha.

I see. You must be from Canada? Am I right? I'm willing to bet you are either a stupid lazy hippy (I don't like ad hominem attacks but I call them like I see them) or you are actually a deserter. Funny how the freedoms you have are because of people like me.

Ah yes, the sense of entitlement. The same sense that has maintained a solid voter base the Democrats here in the US. Personal responsibility? What's that?

zuce: I grew up and lived most of my life (so far) in the White Mountains. The following was safety gospel:

-DO NOT rely on an outside rescue. Cell phones, GPS tracking, whatever. If you get yourself in a situation where you need to be rescued you are putting the lives of decent and selfless people in danger. Not to mention cell phones and GPS have a way of not working during severe weather. That being said I bring my GPS and cell phone with me on every trip... but I assume and pretend they wont work.

-Assume that any trip you take into the woods will be overnight. You should always know how cold it gets at night and carry with you something rated to keep you warm in those temps. I always carry with me 10% extra food, a water filter, a dry set of clothes, and a sleeping bag rated to 20f... even on day hikes in the spring/fall.

-Do not wear jeans (or any form of denim). a) cotton kills b) jeans are the cellphone beltclip of the woods.


On a side note. In the White Mountains you have to pay for your rescue and can be found liable of rescuer injuries if authorities find you were acting irresponsible / not prepared. Being prepared != taking a cell phone with you or assuming if you get in trouble someone will come rescue you.



I guess the Hugh Herr experience taught everyone a few lessons in SAR.

here's an interesting twist:

maybe the husband had this planned all along... maybe he wanted his wife dead.

then, to keep up his story, he sues the people who rescued him...

I mean... how was HE able to stay alive while his wife died? i know some of the obvious reasons for his survival, but still... this just seems fishy.

Naris,

it is a device, it has gps as a core functionality necessary for it's intended operational purpose, it is a gps device....granted it is one that is much more robust in functionality than a more common gps device.

If I have a sat nav device on my boat that includes GPS positioning, can I not call it a GPS since it doesn't carry a garmin or tomtom label?

I can't help it if you assume that it does or does not have a certain feature set.

The Jerk: amanogowa: The Jerk: amanogowa: The Jerk: haha, I think everyone here sees just the type of person you are. Sucks to be you.

Yeah, I guess it does. I am going to have to suffer from my feelings of personal responsibility and miss out on a lot of frivolous law suits. Sure sucks to be a responsible adult in America, now doesn't it?

You have no feelings of personal responsibility. Otherwise you wouldn't have suggested that I not fulfill my responsibility to the Army and blame it on my family. There's a word for people like you, they're called hypocrites (or pussies).

Oh, so everything I have said about the need to take personal responsibility in this thread goes out because you think it is 'responsible' for a family man to join the military -- or for a military man to father children he will not be around to raise for a few years?

I see. This is just another aspect of you not understanding personal responsibility. Gotcha.

I see. You must be from Canada? Am I right? I'm willing to bet you are either a stupid lazy hippy (I don't like ad hominem attacks but I call them like I see them) or you are actually a deserter. Funny how the freedoms you have are because of people like me.

Why are the only options 'Canadian', 'stupid lazy hippy' or 'Deserter'? That makes absolutely no sense.

Well, I am not Canadian, I am not stupid, nor am I lazy. I do not have any characteristics of a hippy, nor have I joined the military and ran out on it. Care to play again?

amanogowa: The Jerk: amanogowa: The Jerk: amanogowa: The Jerk: haha, I think everyone here sees just the type of person you are. Sucks to be you.

Yeah, I guess it does. I am going to have to suffer from my feelings of personal responsibility and miss out on a lot of frivolous law suits. Sure sucks to be a responsible adult in America, now doesn't it?

You have no feelings of personal responsibility. Otherwise you wouldn't have suggested that I not fulfill my responsibility to the Army and blame it on my family. There's a word for people like you, they're called hypocrites (or pussies).

Oh, so everything I have said about the need to take personal responsibility in this thread goes out because you think it is 'responsible' for a family man to join the military -- or for a military man to father children he will not be around to raise for a few years?

I see. This is just another aspect of you not understanding personal responsibility. Gotcha.

I see. You must be from Canada? Am I right? I'm willing to bet you are either a stupid lazy hippy (I don't like ad hominem attacks but I call them like I see them) or you are actually a deserter. Funny how the freedoms you have are because of people like me.

Why are the only options 'Canadian', 'stupid lazy hippy' or 'Deserter'? That makes absolutely no sense.

Well, I am not Canadian, I am not stupid, nor am I lazy. I do not have any characteristics of a hippy, nor have I joined the military and ran out on it. Care to play again?

Apparently you're a liar too.

The Jerk: I spent 5 years (active) in the Army. I got out and 6 months later I was recalled from IRR (look it up) and sent to Iraq. Did i skip out of my responsibity like many others at the time were? No, I went and spent 19 months away from my wife and 2 girls. So don't lecture me on self-responsibilty.

Oooh the troll got his itsy bitsy feelings hurt. You signed up for the army, you weren't drafted. If you didn't know that going to war and IRRs were possible (my brother served in 2 recalls) that's your own fault. You seem to be confusing an OBLIGATION you signed up for with personal responsibility.