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(Yahoo)   Finally, a bailout for taxpayers: House passes a plan to pay consumers $4,500 in exchange for their old, gas-guzzling scraps of metal   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 353
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20132 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2009 at 2:57 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-06-09 07:15:12 PM
Unsurprisingly, the same people who have had a problem with everything else will have a problem with this.

/Spicy Mustard
 
2009-06-09 07:17:04 PM
They've been doing this here in Germany for a while now. Some great deals going!
 
2009-06-09 07:20:08 PM
So If I spend a grand or two on a handful of barely running cars with salvage titles, will I be able to trade them in for a $30+k something?
 
2009-06-09 07:23:26 PM
FTA: ... bill that aims to boost new auto sales by allowing consumers to turn in their gas-guzzling cars and trucks for vouchers worth up to $4,500 toward more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Your car: $65. kthx, bye
 
2009-06-09 07:24:58 PM
First it's the carrot, then it's the stick.

Sooner or later, people who have gas-guzzling cars, even if they only drive them occasionally, will be demonized, then taxed.
 
2009-06-09 07:26:00 PM
Finally, a Another day, another bailout for taxpayers imprudent people who make unwise choices: House passes a plan to pay consumers $4,500 in exchange for their old, gas-guzzling scraps of metal, provides no benefit at all for people who've been driving fuel efficient cars for years

FTFY.
 
2009-06-09 07:27:56 PM
They already have something like this in Texas. Not sure if it'll be the same for the rest of the nation; but the Up To part isnt as bad as it sounds. Here, a car is worth $3k, truck is worth $3.5k and a hybrid is worth $4.5k. As in, those are the only values.
 
2009-06-09 07:28:22 PM
MuadDib: Finally, a Another day, another bailout for taxpayers imprudent people who make unwise choices: House passes a plan to pay consumers $4,500 in exchange for their old, gas-guzzling scraps of metal, provides no benefit at all for people who've been driving fuel efficient cars for years

FTFY.


I don't disagree, but I guess the tacit agreement amnong the 'voters' is that favoring more fuel efficient cars is within the bounds of the compelling national interest regardless of whether its asinine to those who have already bought one of the vehicles.
 
2009-06-09 07:28:27 PM
So, you get a credit based on the gas mileage of your current car versus stated mileage on the manufacturer's sticker. The sticker mileage I can get behind as mostly accurate, but how will they determine if you have a low MPG car to scrap? Will they take your word for it or will they drive it for 100 miles and calculate the gas mileage?
 
2009-06-09 07:32:39 PM
Somebody will finally buy my old Ted Nugent Vinyls? For Profit?

Yes!
 
2009-06-09 07:33:03 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: So, you get a credit based on the gas mileage of your current car versus stated mileage on the manufacturer's sticker. The sticker mileage I can get behind as mostly accurate, but how will they determine if you have a low MPG car to scrap? Will they take your word for it or will they drive it for 100 miles and calculate the gas mileage?

I was wondering this as well. I drive a '91 Accord with 230,000 miles on it. Now, it USED to get pretty good mileage, but it's been slipping lately--what with the transmission being shot and the compression being a bit less-than-optimal, it's definitely lower than original EPA sticker. So...do they take my word that it's down to about 17MPG now, or do they look at the original EPA rating of 23MPG? It makes a hell of a difference.
 
2009-06-09 07:42:12 PM
awesome. there's a $4500 car to replace it with I assume?
 
2009-06-09 07:44:14 PM
Sounds like a scam to get people to buy cars they really don't want.
 
2009-06-09 07:47:23 PM
dahmers love zombie:
I was wondering this as well. I drive a '91 Accord with 230,000 miles on it. Now, it USED to get pretty good mileage, but it's been slipping lately--what with the transmission being shot and the compression being a bit less-than-optimal, it's definitely lower than original EPA sticker. So...do they take my word that it's down to about 17MPG now, or do they look at the original EPA rating of 23MPG? It makes a hell of a difference.


Why not pay $1000 for a new engine and trans then? I bet that cost is mostly labor.
 
2009-06-09 07:56:08 PM
BobtheFascist: Sounds like a scam to get people to buy cars they really don't want.

That's farking stupid. If you don't want the farking car, don't buy it. But if you're one of these people w/ a 10 year old SUV who would love to downsize to a smaller car, but don't think you can swing it, this is an AWESOME deal.

My mom has a Ford Explorer that she bought when she had three teenagers. None of her kids live with her, and the damn thing needs a few hundred dollars every few months. This is great for her.
 
2009-06-09 07:56:51 PM
Serious question:

Isn't this just like giving people with clunker-esque credit, driving clunker cars and trucks, access to "up to" $4500 worth of vouchers (aka credit) to "lease" a car they can't otherwise afford?

Sounds like the home-loan crap on a much smaller scale.

It surely won't affect CAFE standards when these vehicles are sent back to lots within one year to be resold/re-leased at a loss.

It seems to me (I did RTFA several times) that they haven't thought this cunning plan all the way through.
 
2009-06-09 07:59:13 PM
I suspect they'll rate your used car based on the combined mpg on http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

My wife's POS van gets a combined 18 mpg according to the guv'ment, and we were thinking of getting a new car if she gets this job she's looking at, but I'll force her to wait if I'm going to get a couple-thousand off. When-the-fark might this take effect? Anyone?
 
2009-06-09 08:11:23 PM
what_now: But if you're one of these people w/ a 10 year old SUV who would love to downsize to a smaller car, but don't think you can swing it, this is an AWESOME deal.

Then you buy used. New cars are a rip off. Especially new American cars. There are plenty of affordable, efficient, reliable used cars out there.
 
2009-06-09 08:11:28 PM
This is the biggest clause of fail possible:

Owners of sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks or minivans that get 18 mpg or less could receive a voucher for $3,500 if their new truck or SUV is at least 2 mpg higher than their old vehicle. The voucher would increase to $4,500 if the mileage of the new truck or SUV is at least 5 mpg higher than the older vehicle. Consumers could also receive vouchers for leased vehicles.


Come ON. If you want to accomplish what this bill sets out to do, then you should make the incentive standard across the board.
 
2009-06-09 08:11:33 PM
Civil_War2_Time: It surely won't affect CAFE standards ....

And why wouldn't it? Do you think having people drive more fuel efficient cars WON'T help the overall oil consumption rate?
 
2009-06-09 08:13:13 PM
El Chode: Come ON. If you want to accomplish what this bill sets out to do, then you should make the incentive standard across the board.

True, which is why Dianne Feinsteins version is better. Hope they go for it.
 
2009-06-09 08:20:43 PM
El Chode: This is the biggest clause of fail possible:

Owners of sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks or minivans that get 18 mpg or less could receive a voucher for $3,500 if their new truck or SUV is at least 2 mpg higher than their old vehicle. The voucher would increase to $4,500 if the mileage of the new truck or SUV is at least 5 mpg higher than the older vehicle. Consumers could also receive vouchers for leased vehicles.

Come ON. If you want to accomplish what this bill sets out to do, then you should make the incentive standard across the board.


I agree that giving someone $3500 to buy a truck w/ a 2mpg improvement is ridiculous, but trucks don't get good mileage. Especially if they're actually being used as *gasp* a work truck.
 
2009-06-09 08:28:00 PM
I OWN TWO OF THEM THAT AREN'T WORTH THAT MUCH WHERE DO I SIGN UP?!?!
 
2009-06-09 08:36:37 PM
Taking vehicles off the road before the end of their useful life wastes more energy than will be saved (regardless of what you replace them with).
 
2009-06-09 08:43:41 PM
Never mind, I can't afford a new car, even with the incentive.
 
2009-06-09 08:59:38 PM
BobtheFascist: Sounds like a scam to get people to buy cars they really don't want.

Scam or not, who knows... With as "green" as this country's getting though it wouldn't surprise me. Politicians and various environmentalist nut-jobs are shoving green everything down the publics throats. Say hello to itty bitty cars that get blown away in the wind and totaled with door-dings.
 
2009-06-09 09:29:01 PM
Dinki

And why wouldn't it? Do you think having people drive more fuel efficient cars WON'T help the overall oil consumption rate?

Sure, for 12 months or the length of the lease contract that $3500-$4500 will afford on a new car/truck. Beyond that, they will start flogging them like rental cars/trucks when they realize they won't be able to afford that vehicle anymore without government assistance.

THEN what are those people going to be driving? Quite possibly something very similar to their old clunker.
 
2009-06-09 09:34:32 PM
Fisrt prize is a new Chrysler.

Second prize is two new Chryslers.
 
2009-06-09 09:54:58 PM
This just in: The Government has no money/ they can give nothing, they can only redistribute tax dollars from our pockets to whatever pet projects they have. So read the headline" Obama to distribute money from hard workers to those who drive crappy cars. Soon to read: Government offers relief to car buyers who can no longer afford the payments or who's cars are worth less than their balance.

Either way we pay and everyone thinks its a great idea.
 
2009-06-09 10:24:38 PM
Damn. I just scrapped the '79 Chrysler Newport that had been sitting in my driveway for 10 years.
 
2009-06-09 10:26:05 PM
Har Har! Remember, these incentives apply to *any* car... like a 911, a Murceilago, or a GTR!

LOL! CHUMPS!

-P
 
2009-06-09 10:26:14 PM
Marcus Aurelius: Fisrt prize is a new Chrysler.

Second prize is two new Chryslers.


You can use the second one as a parts car for when your window falls out at the toll booth on the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
 
2009-06-09 10:28:16 PM
No thanks. I'll keep my clunkers that are paid for. Have no desire to pay a car note every month (haven't had one in 7 years & those were used cars).
Save your money boys and girls. Cars are disposable.

i306.photobucket.com">
 
2009-06-09 10:30:34 PM
These programs never work.
 
2009-06-09 10:32:33 PM
Hagbardr: Damn. I just scrapped the '79 Chrysler Newport that had been sitting in my driveway for 10 years.

Just replace it.

Hey, it's worth buying a $200 clunker off Craigs list just to trade it in.
 
2009-06-09 10:33:22 PM
TheHighlandHowler: First it's the carrot, then it's the stick.

...
 
2009-06-09 10:36:59 PM
TommyymmoT: Just replace it.

Hey, it's worth buying a $200 clunker off Craigs list just to trade it in.


I'm just happy it's gone. I was sick of looking at the damn thing.
 
2009-06-09 10:41:58 PM
I don't care what the program is. We need to quit spending money we don't have.

Period.
 
2009-06-09 10:46:46 PM
Does this also apply to said Honda's? (96 civic with 198,000 on her)
I will upgrade to a Civic Hybrid in a heart beat.
/for my wife of course, I pull things, besides myself
 
2009-06-09 10:49:28 PM
I'm sure this is in no way a giveaway to the auto industry and the well-off, and that poor people will rush out and buy new cars with the vouchers. Oh, and having different rates for cars and SUVs -- sheer genius.

Here's an idea. Tax carbon. Then take the money, and split it evenly among all Americans. People who burn less gas/coal/whatever get extra money to spend -- on a new car, if that's what they want, or on insulation for their house, or solar panels, or whatever -- while those who burn more will quickly look for more efficient ways of doing things.

/Christ, we are determined to make Rube Goldberg laws -- a cap-and-cheat system which gives away 85% of the credits to existing polluters, plus an entire range of stupid, wasteful, and expensive vouchers, subsidies, and giveaways. A carbon tax and rebate would relatively quickly, efficiently, and transparently solve the same problems, *and* it would help the poor more than a damned SUV voucher.
 
2009-06-09 11:00:25 PM
The driver's side seat in the Jeep isn't connected by all four bolts anymore. I'm afraid to drive the thing. I wouldn't turn down a $4500 incentive to trade it in right now.

I haven't had a car payment in a year though. I really don't want to start again.
 
2009-06-09 11:07:00 PM
Wow, The dealers/industry used to give 4500 or more, cash back incentives on new cars. Obama found a way for us to subsidize the incentives and go into further debt at the same time. I'll wait for a while and get a great deal on one of these low efficiency trade ins for cheap cash. A later model BMW perhaps.
 
2009-06-09 11:27:38 PM
So, if you wrap a shiat sandwich in a voucher, it becomes edible? The one and only time, on impulse, I bought a new car, I got at least that much off sticker, and didn't *give* them my clunker in trade. Are people really this stupid? Really?
 
2009-06-09 11:43:14 PM
Kenny B: Have no desire to pay a car note

It's been my experience that people who use the phrase "car note" are almost always white trash.
 
2009-06-09 11:48:11 PM
My salvage title car gets 25 mpg in town, is fully paid for, and costs me only $160 every 6 months to insure. Right now it needs about $400-$600 in repairs to keep it going and those repairs will let it keep going for several more years of use.

What the hell is buying a "new" car going to do for me? That money I'm not blowing on car payments is going into other investments. Those other investments of course also happen to not be denominated in, or at least not dependent on, US dollars.

panfried: This just in: The Government has no money/ they can give nothing, they can only redistribute tax dollars from our pockets to whatever pet projects they have. So read the headline" Obama to distribute money from hard workers to those who drive crappy cars. Soon to read: Government offers relief to car buyers who can no longer afford the payments or who's cars are worth less than their balance.

Either way we pay and everyone thinks its a great idea.


THIS. Be careful with the money you get. It will still be hot since it just came off the printing press.

Obama is finishing what Bush, Clinton, and Greenspan started.
 
2009-06-10 12:54:12 AM
SchlingFocker
Kenny B: Have no desire to pay a car note

It's been my experience that people who use the phrase "car note" are almost always white trash.

Hillbilly actually. Oh but I do have a "house note". Not a trailer
 
2009-06-10 03:06:16 AM
FTFA: Separately, House and Senate appropriators were discussing providing $1 billion to a supplemental war funding bill for the "cash for clunkers" program, which aims to generate about 1 million new auto sales. Since the yearlong vehicle program is expected to cost $4 billion, lawmakers would attempt to find the additional money later this year.

Please, no more of this.
 
2009-06-10 03:07:30 AM
$3500 to save 2mpg? fark that. Yeah that's really going to increase fuel efficiency. Given how much oil/energy it makes to build a car, it'll probably have a negative effect.

/Add "I already bought a fuel efficient car" to the list of "where's my bailout?" items.
 
2009-06-10 03:09:16 AM
The entire US economic policy seems to be based these days on giving money to the selfish a**holes who got us in to this mess in the first place.
 
2009-06-10 03:12:58 AM
Vote count matches roll call #314.

Looks like HR 2751 (PDF) based on title, which matches that of roll call.

Voucher system. Limit one per person, heh. Traded-in vehicles are to be owned by the United States and destroyed... or sold for parts. Must have been made in 1984 or later.

Voucher is not taxable income.

New car must have MSRP of $45K or less. No voucher for a Tesla Roadster.
 
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