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(Yahoo)   Obama repackages stimulus plans with old promises. That's change we already believed in   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 90
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808 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jun 2009 at 2:15 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-06-08 08:49:35 PM  
The more things "change" the more things stay the same, but with that said I think I'll wait till Obama is out of office before I cast further judgment.
 
2009-06-08 08:53:28 PM  
Y'know, Fark's "past 30 days" PITA meter really needs to be fixed. There have been a sh*tton of Repub whining threads lately.
 
2009-06-08 09:01:02 PM  
What exactly is the subby upset about?

You know what definitely would be newsworthy... If Republicans did something to help fix our problems instead of just complaining all the time. If they put half as much of the effort into fixing things things as they put into whining, we would probably be closer to actually getting things fixed.

Oh wait... that would be constructive... they'll never go for that.
 
2009-06-08 09:03:25 PM  
Don't we have to allow historians to judge if the stimulus works or not? Oh wait, sorry wrong POTUS.

This one's a failure, a friggin' failure, I tell ya'.
 
2009-06-08 09:30:25 PM  
FTA:

For the first time, the administration admitted the economic forecasts it used to sell the stimulus were overly optimistic.

At the time, our forecast seemed reasonable," Vice President Joe Biden's top economic adviser, Jared Bernstein, said Monday, explaining that the White House underestimated the scope of the recession. "Now, looking back, it was clearly too optimistic."



this is and has been my biggest problem with the stimulus from the get go. i don't think anyone in this administration or the last administration had any grasp of the shiatstorm that was going to hit the economy. the result was 2 stimulus packages that really haven't done much to help in the short-term, which was the intent.

if either president would've listened to a few economists outside of their inner circle, they would've heard about forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010. and that still hasn't changed. we're just $1.3 trillion more in the hole.
 
2009-06-08 09:39:47 PM  
WhoIsPurpleGoo: If either president would've listened to a few economists outside of their inner circle, they would've heard about forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010. and that still hasn't changed. we're just $1.3 trillion more in the hole.

The thing with that is simple rhetoric. The president must give the appearance that they are doing something, whether they are doing anything or not.

If either President simply said "My fellow Americans it's in the general interests of the economy to do nothing, because the economy will fix itself in about a year.", they would inherit a media shiatstorm lambasting them for their laissez-faire approach.

And just imagine if it didn't work...
 
2009-06-08 09:50:49 PM  
LegacyDL:
The thing with that is simple rhetoric. The president must give the appearance that they are doing something, whether they are doing anything or not.

If either President simply said "My fellow Americans it's in the general interests of the economy to do nothing, because the economy will fix itself in about a year.", they would inherit a media shiatstorm lambasting them for their laissez-faire approach.

And just imagine if it didn't work...



i'm not saying they should've done nothing. i'm saying they should've taken the time to thoroughly evaluate the problems, brought in more economists and listened to their ideas, and tailored the stimulus packages to target the greatest needs of the economy.

i don't think there is any doubt that the stimulus package was rushed.
 
2009-06-08 10:28:15 PM  
The White House acknowledged it has spent only $44 billion, or 5 percent, of the $787 billion stimulus, but that total has always been expected to rise sharply this summer.

Why so slow?
 
2009-06-08 10:28:59 PM  
WhoIsPurpleGoo: if either president would've listened to a few economists outside of their inner circle, they would've heard about forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010. and that still hasn't changed. we're just $1.3 trillion more in the hole.

Not entirely true. There were some outside the administration -- Paul Krugman, for example -- who were frustrated with Obama for not stimulating enough.
 
2009-06-08 10:43:15 PM  
elchip: The White House acknowledged it has spent only $44 billion, or 5 percent, of the $787 billion stimulus, but that total has always been expected to rise sharply this summer.

Why so slow?


Uh, because the stimulus has always been a 2-year plan?
 
2009-06-08 10:48:03 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: Uh, because the stimulus has always been a 2-year plan?

Even by those standards... it was passed, what, 3 months ago, so you'd think 12% would be spent.

Obviously it wasn't designed to be spread evenly, but why?
 
2009-06-08 10:48:58 PM  
elchip:
Why so slow?



if you go back to what i said before, that there were many economists who believed the economy would improve on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or the beginning of 2010, this may be a great play by an extremely calculat president.

1. listen to people who say the economy will improve on its own, but plow through a stimulus plan that many viewed as a democratic wish list of projects
2. delay the spending of the stimulus money, allowing the economy to stabilize on its own and begin to improve.
3. begin spending stimulus money while the economy continues to improve
4. take credit for everything.farking brilliant.


and krugman is an ass, but he was right. there was not enough stimulus, because it wasn't targeted at things that could immediately stimulate.
 
2009-06-08 11:07:36 PM  
elchip: cameroncrazy1984: Uh, because the stimulus has always been a 2-year plan?

Even by those standards... it was passed, what, 3 months ago, so you'd think 12% would be spent.

Obviously it wasn't designed to be spread evenly, but why?


We're not buying blackjack and hookers here. Every long term project has a period of ramping up.
 
2009-06-09 01:40:07 AM  
Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: We're not buying blackjack and hookers here. Every long term project has a period of ramping up.

I'm sure some of my neighbors who have lost their jobs and are now losing there beautiful homes appreciate Obama's "ramping up" time...

Why have a "stimulus" plan at all if it was already expected that the economy was going to already improve in 2010 without it?? Oh, I forgot: to bail out banks, insurance companies, and crappy car manufacturers so they can continue not lending money, give out nice bonuses, and continue building ugly, crappy cars that no one wants to buy.
 
2009-06-09 02:22:40 AM  
For a guy who's been in office for less than six months, he sure has managed to wedge right-wing panties tight into their cracks.
 
2009-06-09 02:27:26 AM  
Klingon Penis: For a guy who's been in office for less than six months, he sure has managed to wedge right-wing panties tight into their cracks.

Especially for an empty suit with no ideas.
 
2009-06-09 02:32:09 AM  
Tor_Eckman: Klingon Penis: For a guy who's been in office for less than six months, he sure has managed to wedge right-wing panties tight into their cracks.

Especially for an empty suit with no ideas.


Your wedgie is showing.
 
2009-06-09 02:34:54 AM  
elchip: There were some outside the administration -- Paul Krugman, for example -- who were frustrated with Obama for not stimulating enough.

Are you kidding? With all the Democrats still masturbating over his election, and all the Republicans masturbating over his perceived mistakes, I don't think we've ever had a more stimulating President. If Obama isn't working for Krugman, he either isn't partisan enough or he needs to borrow some blue pills from Bob Dole.
 
2009-06-09 02:37:41 AM  
www.bls.gov

and what was it for may? -345k as opposed to -600k?

go fark yourself BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE and MATT APUZZO. Jobs are a lagging indicator and clearly its farking turning around you brainless tools.


NYT: "The American economy shed 345,000 jobs in May, and the unemployment rate spiked to 9.4 percent, but the losses were far smaller than anticipated, amplifying hopes of recovery."
 
2009-06-09 02:38:34 AM  
EdgeRunner: elchip: There were some outside the administration -- Paul Krugman, for example -- who were frustrated with Obama for not stimulating enough.

Are you kidding? With all the Democrats still masturbating over his election, and all the Republicans masturbating over his perceived mistakes, I don't think we've ever had a more stimulating President. If Obama isn't working for Krugman, he either isn't partisan enough or he needs to borrow some blue pills from Bob Dole.


I award you Dumbest Comment of the New Millenium Redundancy Award
 
2009-06-09 02:42:19 AM  
steelpeg:
Why have a "stimulus" plan at all if it was already expected that the economy was going to already improve in 2010 without it?? Oh, I forgot: to bail out banks, insurance companies, and crappy car manufacturers so they can continue not lending money, give out nice bonuses, and continue building ugly, crappy cars that no one wants to buy. and so that the literally tens of millions of people employed by these industries don't lose their jobs, creating a jobless rate in the 20% range



if you're going to biatch about it at least admit that your solution would cause a depression.
 
2009-06-09 02:54:54 AM  
WhoIsPurpleGoo: LegacyDL:
The thing with that is simple rhetoric. The president must give the appearance that they are doing something, whether they are doing anything or not.

If either President simply said "My fellow Americans it's in the general interests of the economy to do nothing, because the economy will fix itself in about a year.", they would inherit a media shiatstorm lambasting them for their laissez-faire approach.

And just imagine if it didn't work...


i'm not saying they should've done nothing. i'm saying they should've taken the time to thoroughly evaluate the problems, brought in more economists and listened to their ideas, and tailored the stimulus packages to target the greatest needs of the economy.

i don't think there is any doubt that the stimulus package was rushed.


I'm not sure there would be a recovery at the end of 09 or beginning of 10 without TARP and the stimulus. The credit crunch was more of a confidence problem than anything. TARP has been a huge success at keeping banks going and getting them to raise their own funds (and most of these funds are going to be repaid as soon as Obama allows).

The stimulus was done only for the benefit of confidence. It was bloated by tax cuts and projects that didn't really make any sense for the urgency for which it was passed. It still addressed some much needed infrastructure upgrades, but it will mainly propel the exit from the recession.
 
2009-06-09 02:57:39 AM  
WhoIsPurpleGoo: forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010.

end of 2009 or early 2010???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Try 2012 at the earliest. The other day a local grocery store had some job openings and over 800 people showed up to apply (new window). Many in suits/ties. Yah, like things are going recover in the next 8-10 months

/this recession/depression ain't close to bottoming out. Not even close.
 
2009-06-09 03:03:33 AM  
holiday_inn_in_cambodia: I award you Dumbest Comment of the New Millenium Redundancy Award

No, no, you keep your award. You worked hard to win that, and I'd hate to deprive you of the only recognition you're ever likely to receive in this lifetime.
 
2009-06-09 03:11:18 AM  
Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: elchip: cameroncrazy1984: Uh, because the stimulus has always been a 2-year plan?

Even by those standards... it was passed, what, 3 months ago, so you'd think 12% would be spent.

Obviously it wasn't designed to be spread evenly, but why?

We're not buying blackjack and hookers here. Every long term project has a period of ramping up.


Why not?
 
2009-06-09 03:14:11 AM  
EdgeRunner: holiday_inn_in_cambodia: I award you Dumbest Comment of the New Millenium Redundancy Award

No, no, you keep your award. You worked hard to win that, and I'd hate to deprive you of the only recognition you're ever likely to receive in this lifetime.


That was weak.
 
2009-06-09 03:15:18 AM  
holiday_inn_in_cambodia: steelpeg:
Why have a "stimulus" plan at all if it was already expected that the economy was going to already improve in 2010 without it?? Oh, I forgot: to bail out banks, insurance companies, and crappy car manufacturers so they can continue not lending money, give out nice bonuses, and continue building ugly, crappy cars that no one wants to buy. and so that the literally tens of millions of people employed by these industries don't lose their jobs, creating a jobless rate in the 20% range


if you're going to biatch about it at least admit that your solution would cause a depression.


Yes, because a strong economy based entirely on debt, smoke, mirrors, and bullshiat is obviously better than reality.
 
2009-06-09 03:16:06 AM  
Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: WhoIsPurpleGoo: forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010.

end of 2009 or early 2010???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Try 2012 at the earliest. The other day a local grocery store had some job openings and over 800 people showed up to apply (new window). Many in suits/ties. Yah, like things are going recover in the next 8-10 months

/this recession/depression ain't close to bottoming out. Not even close.


Getting worse at a somewhat slower rate is like getting better, right?
 
2009-06-09 03:20:31 AM  
Dictatorial_Flair: Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: WhoIsPurpleGoo: forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010.

end of 2009 or early 2010???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Try 2012 at the earliest. The other day a local grocery store had some job openings and over 800 people showed up to apply (new window). Many in suits/ties. Yah, like things are going recover in the next 8-10 months

/this recession/depression ain't close to bottoming out. Not even close.

Getting worse at a somewhat slower rate is like getting better, right?


Heck, why not... it certainly worked for the stock market the other day...

/"we only lost 345,000 jobs last month.... BUY BUY BUY!!!"
//USA! USA! USA!
 
2009-06-09 03:21:56 AM  
patience people patience
 
2009-06-09 03:25:57 AM  
SeismicJizzer: patience people patience

BUT THE GOVERNMENT SAID WE'LL ALL DIE IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!!!

Were they lying?
 
2009-06-09 03:28:37 AM  
Dictatorial_Flair: SeismicJizzer: patience people patience

BUT THE GOVERNMENT SAID WE'LL ALL DIE IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!!!

Were they lying?


Of course they were.

"Every government is run by liars and nothing they say should be believed."
-- I.F. Stone
 
2009-06-09 03:35:07 AM  
Dictatorial_Flair: SeismicJizzer: patience people patience

BUT THE GOVERNMENT SAID WE'LL ALL DIE IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!!!

Were they lying?


not really, one thing we Americans are known for its panicking. The market was heading to 7000 point terority and the adminstratin had to stop the bleeding or Congress and the media would have complained Obama isn't doing anything. It seemed to work for the markets. Now comes job creations, regulating banks and other financial institutions, and getting a health care policy going.

It's going to take at least Obama's first term to get back where we are and he is going to have to sell it every six months because we have to have our hands held and told everything is going to be all right.
 
2009-06-09 03:39:31 AM  
SeismicJizzer: Dictatorial_Flair: SeismicJizzer: patience people patience

BUT THE GOVERNMENT SAID WE'LL ALL DIE IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!!!

Were they lying?

not really, one thing we Americans are known for its panicking. The market was heading to 7000 point terority and the adminstratin had to stop the bleeding or Congress and the media would have complained Obama isn't doing anything. It seemed to work for the markets. Now comes job creations, regulating banks and other financial institutions, and getting a health care policy going.

It's going to take at least Obama's first term to get back where we are and he is going to have to sell it every six months because we have to have our hands held and told everything is going to be all right.


I've actually been watching the whole mess hoping beyond hope that the right people (the greedy farks responsible) will be destroyed by this crisis, not with fear. But it's starting to look more and more like their buds in the government are going to save their bacon no mater what it costs everyone else, and that annoys me.
 
2009-06-09 03:44:41 AM  
Dictatorial_Flair: I've actually been watching the whole mess hoping beyond hope that the right people (the greedy farks responsible) will be destroyed by this crisis, not with fear. But it's starting to look more and more like their buds in the government are going to save their bacon no mater what it costs everyone else, and that annoys me.

ugh if Obama has shown anything it's his inability to prosecute the guilty, regardless from what party they belong too.
 
2009-06-09 03:55:33 AM  
SeismicJizzer: ugh if Obama has shown anything it's his inability to prosecute the guilty, regardless from what party they belong too.

You honestly think McCain would be doing anything significantly different? New boss, same as old boss, same as every other option we'll ever have for a boss.
 
2009-06-09 04:19:55 AM  
JohnnyC: What exactly is the subby upset about?

You know what definitely would be newsworthy... If Republicans did something to help fix our problems instead of just complaining all the time. If they put half as much of the effort into fixing things things as they put into whining, we would probably be closer to actually getting things fixed.

Oh wait... that would be constructive... they'll never go for that.


Wait? Now you want help from Republicans? Why? For the last several months all I heard was "STFU, you lost" and pictures of crying babies. Well, I think the Republicans can sit back and say, fine, "go fark yourself," under the circumstances.
 
2009-06-09 04:22:26 AM  
Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: elchip: cameroncrazy1984: Uh, because the stimulus has always been a 2-year plan?

Even by those standards... it was passed, what, 3 months ago, so you'd think 12% would be spent.

Obviously it wasn't designed to be spread evenly, but why?

We're not buying blackjack and hookers here. Every long term project has a period of ramping up.


Blackjack and hookers makes a hell of a lot more sense than Obama's current plan. Toss in cocaine to snort off the hooker's boobies and I'm all for it.
 
2009-06-09 04:33:31 AM  
OgreMagi: JohnnyC: What exactly is the subby upset about?

You know what definitely would be newsworthy... If Republicans did something to help fix our problems instead of just complaining all the time. If they put half as much of the effort into fixing things things as they put into whining, we would probably be closer to actually getting things fixed.

Oh wait... that would be constructive... they'll never go for that.

Wait? Now you want help from Republicans? Why? For the last several months all I heard was "STFU, you lost" and pictures of crying babies. Well, I think the Republicans can sit back and say, fine, "go fark yourself," under the circumstances.


Those are typically in response to the ceaseless whining of the GOP. These are also typically a parody of how the GOP handled their opposition party during the last few elections. And Republicans have always been able to sit back and tell everyone else to go fark themselves under any circumstances.
 
2009-06-09 04:37:25 AM  
morrach: OgreMagi: JohnnyC: What exactly is the subby upset about?

You know what definitely would be newsworthy... If Republicans did something to help fix our problems instead of just complaining all the time. If they put half as much of the effort into fixing things things as they put into whining, we would probably be closer to actually getting things fixed.

Oh wait... that would be constructive... they'll never go for that.

Wait? Now you want help from Republicans? Why? For the last several months all I heard was "STFU, you lost" and pictures of crying babies. Well, I think the Republicans can sit back and say, fine, "go fark yourself," under the circumstances.

Those are typically in response to the ceaseless whining of the GOP. These are also typically a parody of how the GOP handled their opposition party during the last few elections. And Republicans have always been able to sit back and tell everyone else to go fark themselves under any circumstances.


No, the "STFU" and baby pictures have been starting up pretty much at the beginning of political debates. In numerous threads there wasn't even an attempt to pretend to discuss the issues.
 
2009-06-09 05:07:03 AM  
EdgeRunner: holiday_inn_in_cambodia: I award you Dumbest Comment of the New Millenium Redundancy Award

No, no, you keep your award. You worked hard to win that, and I'd hate to deprive you of the only second recognition you're ever likely to receive in this lifetime.


I already have a World's Most Attractive Penis award, but thx
 
2009-06-09 06:33:30 AM  
Came here for the Obamapologist spin and left satisfied.
 
2009-06-09 06:48:40 AM  
soy_bomb: Came here for the Obamapologist spin and left satisfied.

I was expecting a better show, frankly
 
2009-06-09 07:36:50 AM  
holiday_inn_in_cambodia: and what was it for may? -345k as opposed to -600k?

go fark yourself BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE and MATT APUZZO. Jobs are a lagging indicator and clearly its farking turning around you brainless tools.


NYT: "The American economy shed 345,000 jobs in May, and the unemployment rate spiked to 9.4 percent, but the losses were far smaller than anticipated, amplifying hopes of recovery."


In that case, seeing how only 44 billion has been spent to "turn it around," will you admit Obama grabbed too much money from the American taxpayer and is now sitting on it until it can be used with more politically favorable results? Doubt it. You're a farking hack.
 
2009-06-09 07:48:10 AM  
he has no fricking idea what he is doing other than to run the country in the ground
 
2009-06-09 07:51:58 AM  
TwistedIvory: Y'know, Fark's "past 30 days" PITA meter really needs to be fixed. There have been a sh*tton of Repub whining threads lately.

If you wanna balance the pita, you HAVE to include Republican gibberish, because that's pretty much all they got, their ideology was tested and it failed. So they're screwed.
 
2009-06-09 07:59:04 AM  
ghare: TwistedIvory: Y'know, Fark's "past 30 days" PITA meter really needs to be fixed. There have been a sh*tton of Repub whining threads lately.

If you wanna balance the pita, you HAVE to include Republican gibberish, because that's pretty much all they got, their ideology was tested and it failed. So they're screwed.


yeah, bush was a hyper hyper conservative. Ideology tested.

oh wait
 
2009-06-09 08:19:14 AM  
WhoIsPurpleGoo: if either president would've listened to a few economists outside of their inner circle, they would've heard about forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010. and that still hasn't changed. we're just $1.3 trillion more in the hole.

I wonder if those economists were direct descendants of the same stupid economists that told Hoover not to spend money on the economy before the Great Depression.
 
2009-06-09 08:32:28 AM  
WhoIsPurpleGoo: FTA:

if either president would've listened to a few economists outside of their inner circle, they would've heard about forecasts that showed the economy would begin to recover on its own, without any stimulus, by the end of 2009 or early 2010. and that still hasn't changed. we're just $1.3 trillion more in the hole.


Pay attention folks, this is the next big talking point and will be hammered to death in the years until the next presidential election.
The economy was already recovering. It was not helped by the stimulus. The administration can take no credit.
Blah blah blah.
Mark my farking words.
 
2009-06-09 08:38:28 AM  
The money is already "gone", so get to spending. Those earmarks need to get going soon. You know, around congressional election time.

"Neither the acceleration nor the jobs goal are new. Both represent a White House repackaging of promises and projects to blunt criticism that the effects haven't been worth the historic price tag. And the job estimate is so murky, it can never be verified."

Of course it can't be verified, that was the whole point when they selected the language "created or SAVED" very very carefully. Politics at it's best.
 
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