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(Some Damn Yankee)   Who is the second-worst infielder of all time, going all the way back to 1871? (Hint: he's an active player)   (hardballtimes.com ) divider line
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6720 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 May 2009 at 2:58 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-05-28 03:49:03 PM  
Obviously, his study is legitimate because he has Brooks Robinson as #1.

/have a BR autographed baseball - only autograph I've ever owned. Only one I'll ever need.
 
2009-05-28 03:51:14 PM  

Farkomatic: Obviously, his study is legitimate because he has Brooks Robinson as #1.

/have a BR autographed baseball - only autograph I've ever owned. Only one I'll ever need.


I have a Brooks autographed program, and a ball with Nolan Ryan, and Rod Carew's autograph.
 
2009-05-28 03:53:59 PM  
Heheheheh...Glasscock.
 
2009-05-28 04:00:24 PM  
i looked at the lists, saw Graig Nettles at the "top of" something, and realized this list is about as relevant to wins/losses as a list of the players with the most blackheads on their nose.

/Knew I shouldn't have gotten rid of that card....
static.baseballtoaster.com
//hotlinked
 
2009-05-28 04:02:20 PM  

senorpogo: Do you a source/link with said info?

Not trying to be hard here. Not saying it doesn't exist. I'd just like to look at it.

I just seriously have trouble believing than anyone out there has worse range than JP.


Yeah, no problem. Fangraphs.com lists UZR data, updated every Sunday. Here's Jeter's page, and here's Jhonny. They've both been pretty bad. You'll want to look at RngR (which is Range Runs Above Average), and you'll probably want to convert it to some sort of rate statistic (RngR/Inn would probably work well) to get a clear picture, since they have different amounts of playing time. Also, note that UZR only goes back to 2002 at this point.

Really, they're about equal, but Peralta's been positive this season, unlike Jeter, so I gave him the edge.
 
2009-05-28 04:04:10 PM  

gwowen: Hmmm, Hal Chase scores very very badly, but nearly all his contemporaries said he was
a) a total scumbag
b) the greatest defensive 1B whoever lived...

Interesting...


Defensive stats are iffy to begin with, but they really fail at first base. There are a couple reasons; one is that 1B plays "out of position" a lot by holding a runner on, so it screws up the plus/minus. Another reason is because "defense" to 1B is more about catching throws than fielding grounders. For example, Derrick Lee always scores horribly, but if you watch him dig out throws, you know he is good.

senorpogo: gwowen:
Truly bad defensive middle infielders don't stay middle infielders for long. They either get shipped out of the league or relocated to somewhere else on the diamond (usually early in their career).

So while Jeter may be the worst of the guys who can cut it at shortstop, he's nowhere NEAR the worst infielder of all time like the headline suggests.


It is debatable if Jeter can cut it at SS is the issue. Clearly, the worst infielder of all time probably never made it out of little league. Unfortunately for Jeter, he can only be compared to other major league SSs, but that is the most fair comparison that can be made.

/if you even get a cup of coffee in the big leagues, you are in the top 99.99999% of all baseball players ever, but you can still suck.
 
2009-05-28 04:05:00 PM  
his 4 world series rings must be a fluke
 
2009-05-28 04:06:01 PM  

the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good


Worst play ever. A's should've won.

The Dynamite Monkey: the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good

Best goddamned play I ever saw.


Most hated play I ever saw, aside from the 'tuck rule'.
 
2009-05-28 04:06:33 PM  
DeWayne Mann: Really, they're about equal, but Peralta's been positive this season, unlike Jeter, so I gave him the edge.

Thanks. I'll check it out.
 
2009-05-28 04:11:56 PM  

senorpogo: Thanks. I'll check it out.


You also might want to check out The Fielding Bible (which also comes in book form, with far, FAR more data). Jeter tends to rank last among SS with their plus/minus rating, while Peralta tends to hang around average. In a minute I'll go grab my copy of the book & let you know if they have any more insight on Jhonny.
 
2009-05-28 04:13:00 PM  
What scissor may look like:
www.scissormetimbers.com
 
2009-05-28 04:23:40 PM  

DeWayne Mann: You also might want to check out The Fielding Bible (which also comes in book form, with far, FAR more data). Jeter tends to rank last among SS with their plus/minus rating, while Peralta tends to hang around average. In a minute I'll go grab my copy of the book & let you know if they have any more insight on Jhonny.


Ok, the fielding bible book does have a short blurb on Jhonny:

"Peralta's fielding skills are often derided, but there are more deserving targets for this kind of scorn. Peralta makes most of the routine plays and ranked in the top five in assists with 427 (granted, the Indians' staff was a groundball staff). He can make accurate throws from almost any position and does a nice job on the double play. His biggest flaw is more mental than physical: he has a tendency to panic and rush his throws when he doesn't field the ball cleanly."

In Jeter's blurb, they mention that his bad arm requires him to play shallower than most SSs. That could be the difference in their ranges: Peralta simply plays back a bit, letting him get to a few more balls while relying on his arm.
 
2009-05-28 04:28:09 PM  

the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good


was one of the best plays of all time, so vieled stabs at someone who plays average defense are pointless.

he definitely has the hardware to prove he is great, and will eventually be in the HoF as well as having his # retired on the most prolific baseball franchise of all time.
 
2009-05-28 04:32:58 PM  

tforbes: he definitely has the hardware to prove he is great


Because there's no way the 'hardware' can be wrong, right? Who cares if you only played 28 games at the position?
 
2009-05-28 04:36:53 PM  
but.but.but he dove in the stands to catch a ball!!
even though he had plenty of time to stop, making the dive so unnecessary he could be on the Italian national soccer team
 
2009-05-28 04:37:48 PM  

vanhalenfan32: congrats stat geek with a grudge! next week an 82 page random stats account on why Mariano Rivera is the worst closer in modern history and you'll have achieved "stat geek for a bad baseball site" hall of fame status.

that much work to make your point actually works against your objective.

I find "Jeter sucks!" seems to do the trick a lot better.


Jesus, you're dumb.
 
2009-05-28 04:38:04 PM  
Wow, this is ground breaking, let me tell you. Is this the same mathematician who "proved" Jeter is a terrible shortstop 3 or 4 years ago, or someone else with an axe to grind?

First, let's cover the things the numbers don't talk about. Does anyone ever feel the need to mention the various amazing plays he's made? I know you've talked about the play against Oakland...but what about the diving catch into the stands against the Red Sox? How many grabs in shallow center have we seen from him?

Is he the greatest shortstop ever? Probably not. But a shortstop is the total of his fielding ability, his hitting ability, and yes, his clubhouse and teamwork abilities. Here are some numbers that are often overlooked:

4 world series rings
9 all star appearances (most likely to become 10 this year)
3 gold gloves
3 silver sluggers
1 - total number of players to be both the All Star and World Series MVP in one year (and that would be none other than Derek Jeter)

So take your second rate shortstop, who has *either* great defense *or* great offense, and hopefully your overly complex math can help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.
 
2009-05-28 04:45:26 PM  
I always find these threads laughable. Jeter is getting old, yes, but he's far from the 2nd worst MLB infielder ever. Defensive ranking are not as refined as offensive analysis. Could Jeter's numbers have anything to do with the infield at Yankee stadium (bad hops, quick infield, et al)? For as terrible as he (allegedly) is, it's amazing that he's managed to keep that position in the one of the toughest baseball cities in the world. It's also amazing that he will probably be a first ballot hall of famer. Not bad for a guy that sucks. :-/

Where is Jimmy Rollins rank among active players? Because he, to me, if the best shortstop in the game.
 
2009-05-28 04:45:53 PM  

wmichaelis: hopefully your overly complex math can help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.


Or, you can rant online using irrelevant numbers to help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.
 
2009-05-28 04:46:38 PM  
Wow, with such a terrible shortstop and team captain, this team has got to be in the basement, right??

Right?


Wait, what?

and please, YTG, shock me with your "runs scored differential" statistical malarkey.
 
2009-05-28 04:47:25 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Or, you can rant online using irrelevant numbers to help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.


I'm sorry, four rings is irrelevant?
 
2009-05-28 04:49:59 PM  

murp0837: Not bad for a guy that sucks. :-/


You do understand this is about defense, right? No one is arguing that he hasn't been an excellent offensive shortstop, but aside from a couple of highlight reel plays over a, what, 13-yr career, his defense in unquestionably bad.

Is it time yet for the Mnookin quote? To paraphrase - people think Jeter is good at short because he makes routine plays look spectacular.
 
2009-05-28 04:50:13 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: wmichaelis: hopefully your overly complex math can help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.

Or, you can rant online using irrelevant numbers to help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.


Why, exactly, are my numbers irrelevant? Forget them all, if you want, except for the 3 Gold Gloves. How do you explain that one?
 
2009-05-28 04:50:17 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Or, you can rant online using irrelevant numbers to help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.


How are any of those stats irrelevant? Seriously, dude. So, as a BoSox fan, you are telling me that you would have preferred to have the platoon at SS instead of Jeter for the last 14 years?
 
2009-05-28 04:51:26 PM  

wmichaelis: Wow, this is ground breaking, let me tell you. Is this the same mathematician who "proved" Jeter is a terrible shortstop 3 or 4 years ago, or someone else with an axe to grind?

First, let's cover the things the numbers don't talk about. Does anyone ever feel the need to mention the various amazing plays he's made? I know you've talked about the play against Oakland...but what about the diving catch into the stands against the Red Sox? How many grabs in shallow center have we seen from him?

Is he the greatest shortstop ever? Probably not. But a shortstop is the total of his fielding ability, his hitting ability, and yes, his clubhouse and teamwork abilities. Here are some numbers that are often overlooked:

4 world series rings
9 all star appearances (most likely to become 10 this year)
3 gold gloves
3 silver sluggers
1 - total number of players to be both the All Star and World Series MVP in one year (and that would be none other than Derek Jeter)

So take your second rate shortstop, who has *either* great defense *or* great offense, and hopefully your overly complex math can help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.


Did you just claim that Jeter's rings and awards are often overlooked?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Jeter's good. He's better at SS than all the other not-shortstops, let alone people who don't play baseball.

He's just not better than the other shortstops. Why is that so hard to understand?
 
2009-05-28 04:51:42 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Or, you can rant online using irrelevant numbers to help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.



Oh wait, you're a BOSTON fan. I see now. Yeah, I remember how you guys used to tout how much better Nomaahhh was than Jeter.

I won't say a word about Pedroia because the sample size is too small.

You want to talk inaedequate? From Pedroia's wiki page:

He also recorded the first Major League hit in Citi Field history when he hit a bloop double down the right field line in an April 3rd exhibition game against the New York Mets.

That's a pre-season game. Which doesn't count. But go ahead, tell yourself that Dustin broke CitiField in.
 
2009-05-28 04:54:50 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: You do understand this is about defense, right? No one is arguing that he hasn't been an excellent offensive shortstop, but aside from a couple of highlight reel plays over a, what, 13-yr career, his defense in unquestionably bad.


Yes, I understand the hypothesis. I've been watching Yankees baseball for as long as I can remember, and rarely has the difference between the opposing SS and Jeter been glaring. There are two that I've watched that were above and beyond anyone I've ever seen - Vizquel and Rollins. The rest of the league SS seem to be comparable. Some have better years than others, but all-in-all longevity has to have some merit.

I'm not saying Jeter is great, but he's certainly not "below average". You don't keep that position for 14 years if you are below average.
 
2009-05-28 04:56:42 PM  

wmichaelis: Zulu_as_Kono: wmichaelis: hopefully your overly complex math can help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.

Or, you can rant online using irrelevant numbers to help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.

Why, exactly, are my numbers irrelevant? Forget them all, if you want, except for the 3 Gold Gloves. How do you explain that one?


Gold Gloves are voted on by people who have NO clue about defense.

In recent history:

Rafael Palmeiro won one at 1B in '99, when he DHed almost the whole year. I think he played what, 28 games there that season?

David Wright's won the last two 3B GG's in the NL. As much as I love Wright, Ryan Zimmerman kicks his ass up and down the diamond on defense.

Jimmy Rollins won a GG two years ago, when Troy Tulowitzki led all major league shortsops in total chances (by 117!) and fielding percentage. Get to the most balls and make the most plays when you get there, you're the best.

Need more examples?
 
2009-05-28 04:57:29 PM  
Dafatone:Did you just claim that Jeter's rings and awards are often overlooked?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


Is it? Then tell me, in the original article, where are they mentioned?

If he's not better than other shortstops, what, were they all taking 2004-2006 off? Is that why he got those Gold Gloves?

As murp0837 said, if he's so damned terrible, how has he managed to play 14 years for arguably the toughest team to play for? And not even be moved from his position when Alex Rodriguez came to town?
 
2009-05-28 04:59:10 PM  

wmichaelis:
Is he the greatest shortstop ever? Probably not. But a shortstop is the total of his fielding ability, his hitting ability, and yes, his clubhouse and teamwork abilities. Here are some numbers that are often overlooked:


The player is the sum of all his abilities, that is true. However, this thread is solely about one of those abilities of Jeter: his ability to play defense. The other abilities are irrelevant to this discussion.

What is so hard about that concept?
 
2009-05-28 05:00:18 PM  

MattyFridays: I'm sorry, four rings is irrelevant?


Did he win them all by himself? If no, then yes - irrelevant.
 
2009-05-28 05:02:45 PM  
I saw an interesting stat recently. It listed career BABIP:

Ty Cobb- 372
Derek Jeter- 358
Tony Gwynn- 341
Ted Williams- 328
Pete Rose- 319

So he's got that going for him...
 
2009-05-28 05:03:28 PM  
Zulu showing up in a Jeter defense thread?

It's more likely than you think.

;)
 
2009-05-28 05:04:24 PM  

tforbes: the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good

was one of the best plays of all time, so vieled stabs at someone who plays average defense are pointless.

he definitely has the hardware to prove he is great, and will eventually be in the HoF as well as having his # retired on the most prolific baseball franchise of all time.


Below average defense, but as you point out, offense is almost incalculably more important than defense. Which is why you can say that Jeter's range sucks, but you can never say that Jeter sucks.
 
2009-05-28 05:05:04 PM  

wmichaelis: Forget them all, if you want, except for the 3 Gold Gloves. How do you explain that one?


The Gold Glove is a popularity contest, not a serious measure of performance.

murp0837: How are any of those stats irrelevant? Seriously, dude. So, as a BoSox fan, you are telling me that you would have preferred to have the platoon at SS instead of Jeter for the last 14 years?


I'm not saying his offense hasn't outweighed his defensive deficiencies. I believe I've even said in this thread that he's a great hitter. But he's not a good defensive shortstop. Simple as that.

MattyFridays: Zulu_as_Kono: Or, you can rant online using irrelevant numbers to help you get over your feelings of inadequacy.


Oh wait, you're a BOSTON fan. ... But go ahead, tell yourself that Dustin broke CitiField in.


Oh, okay, you're one of those. Nevermind, then.
 
2009-05-28 05:05:15 PM  

bacongood:

What is so hard about that concept?


Because it's asinine. If you listened solely to FARK and not actually, I don't know, WATCHED THE FREAKING GAMES, you'd think that Jeter is the Mackey Sasser of Shortstops and shouldn't even be playing the game.


Is he a God among SS? No. Is he servicable? Yes. Quite simply, this is a trolling thread to get Yankee fans annoyed and everyone else a chance to bash a player using twisted statistics that suit a purpose.
 
2009-05-28 05:05:47 PM  

Dafatone: David Wright's won the last two 3B GG's in the NL. As much as I love Wright, Ryan Zimmerman kicks his ass up and down the diamond on defense.

Jimmy Rollins won a GG two years ago, when Troy Tulowitzki led all major league shortsops in total chances (by 117!) and fielding percentage. Get to the most balls and make the most plays when you get there, you're the best.


The problem, man, is that defensive stats are so subjective. How can you possibly judge whether a player should have fielded the ball, but didn't. I know enough about Sabermetrics, and even the most innovative of sabermetricians will admit that defensive analysis still has a lot of work to do.

It's easy to criticize year-end awards. Palmeiro GG in 1999 was an abomination, but throughout the history of the game there have been questionable awards. MVPs are hotly debated, GGs are controversial sometimes, but you know what? They're usually voted upon by people to follow baseball everyday, not just some wanker who is good with a calculator.
 
2009-05-28 05:08:47 PM  

wmichaelis: Dafatone:Did you just claim that Jeter's rings and awards are often overlooked?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Is it? Then tell me, in the original article, where are they mentioned?

If he's not better than other shortstops, what, were they all taking 2004-2006 off? Is that why he got those Gold Gloves?

As murp0837 said, if he's so damned terrible, how has he managed to play 14 years for arguably the toughest team to play for? And not even be moved from his position when Alex Rodriguez came to town?


Okay, so the article should start something like this?

"Hey everyone, we're here to talk about Jeter's defense. But we want you all to know, before we get into some heavy statistics, that he won 3 gold gloves. Even though the readers of this sort of analysis certainly already know that, we have to mention it because if Jeter's gold gloves aren't mentioned EVERY SINGLE TIME his defense is discussed, they're "overlooked."

Jeter's in the lineup for his bat, and because his glove isn't terrible. Just worse than most of the other full-time shortstops in baseball.

Oh, and Murp0837: If you're a yankees fan, you must've seen John McDonald on the Blue Jays. He's light years ahead of Rollins. Not Vizquel, though.
 
2009-05-28 05:11:32 PM  

Wise_Guy: It's more likely than you think.


We all need our hobbies.
 
2009-05-28 05:13:53 PM  

murp0837: Dafatone: David Wright's won the last two 3B GG's in the NL. As much as I love Wright, Ryan Zimmerman kicks his ass up and down the diamond on defense.

Jimmy Rollins won a GG two years ago, when Troy Tulowitzki led all major league shortsops in total chances (by 117!) and fielding percentage. Get to the most balls and make the most plays when you get there, you're the best.

The problem, man, is that defensive stats are so subjective. How can you possibly judge whether a player should have fielded the ball, but didn't. I know enough about Sabermetrics, and even the most innovative of sabermetricians will admit that defensive analysis still has a lot of work to do.

It's easy to criticize year-end awards. Palmeiro GG in 1999 was an abomination, but throughout the history of the game there have been questionable awards. MVPs are hotly debated, GGs are controversial sometimes, but you know what? They're usually voted upon by people to follow baseball everyday, not just some wanker who is good with a calculator.


I pretty much agree with you, except for that "wanker who is good with a calculator" bit. This stereotyping of sabermatricians is ridiculous. I promise you that the guys (guy?) who wrote this article have watched more baseball than you and me combined. And I've watched a LOT of baseball.
 
2009-05-28 05:15:21 PM  

MattyFridays: bacongood:

What is so hard about that concept?

Because it's asinine. If you listened solely to FARK and not actually, I don't know, WATCHED THE FREAKING GAMES, you'd think that Jeter is the Mackey Sasser of Shortstops and shouldn't even be playing the game.


Is he a God among SS? No. Is he servicable? Yes. Quite simply, this is a trolling thread to get Yankee fans annoyed and everyone else a chance to bash a player using twisted statistics that suit a purpose.


Where has someone said that Jeter should not play?

I don't think Jeter needs anyone to defend him, worst case scenerio he gets in the HOF on the first ballot. Pretty much everyone agrees to that. But that doesn't mean he has no faults.

But when someone like Jeter wins Gold Glove Awards, but every defensive metric indicates he is below average at defense, it is something that should be talked about. Trust me, people on FARK bashing Jeter watch just as much baseball as you do. If you can't see the difference between Jeter and the other SSs playing in the majors, you need to pay attention more. Watch where Jeter lines up defensively (shallower than normal). Watch how he moves to his left (not well at all). Watch how much he gets on his throws (not as much as most SSs).

If you can't see his faults, you either aren't looking or you are ignoring the obvious.
 
2009-05-28 05:17:51 PM  

Dafatone: Oh, and Murp0837: If you're a yankees fan, you must've seen John McDonald on the Blue Jays. He's light years ahead of Rollins. Not Vizquel, though.


It never said I didn't see impressive short stops, but for my money Rollins and Vizquel are the two best that I've seen personally. I went to two Philly games last year when the play the Brewers. I'd always known Rollins to be good, but when I saw him live he was electric.
 
2009-05-28 05:18:01 PM  

murp0837: You don't keep that position for 14 years if you are below average.


That he wasn't moved out of that position when A-Rod came on board is indefensible, if you'll pardon the pun. And the fact is that Jeter has been below average defensively at short pretty much his whole career, but he's been mostly wildly above average offensively, and that's why he's stayed there. It really isn't that hard to understand, is it?

wmichaelis: Is it? Then tell me, in the original article, where are they mentioned?


They aren't mentioned because they are not what the article is about.

wmichaelis: Is that why he got those Gold Gloves?


You've got to get over this Gold Glove business. Really, they're about perception, and are meaningless if you're interested in fact.
 
2009-05-28 05:18:16 PM  

Dafatone:
Oh, and Murp0837: If you're a yankees fan, you must've seen John McDonald on the Blue Jays. He's light years ahead of Rollins. Not Vizquel, though.


Adam Everett used to be the best in the game, but since his injury, he can't do it anymore. I'm not sure who I think the best full-timer is right now.

Big fan of Hu's glove too.
 
2009-05-28 05:20:27 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: murp0837: You don't keep that position for 14 years if you are below average.

That he wasn't moved out of that position when A-Rod came on board is indefensible, if you'll pardon the pun. And the fact is that Jeter has been below average defensively at short pretty much his whole career, but he's been mostly wildly above average offensively, and that's why he's stayed there. It really isn't that hard to understand, is it?


There is an argument for not moving him when A-Rod came. SSs generally have a shorter shelf life than corner infielders. Putting less miles on A-Rod at SS could pay off by him maintaining his bat longer in his career.

I don't think that is the logic the Yankees used, but it would have been legit.
 
2009-05-28 05:20:39 PM  

bacongood: Dafatone:
Oh, and Murp0837: If you're a yankees fan, you must've seen John McDonald on the Blue Jays. He's light years ahead of Rollins. Not Vizquel, though.

Adam Everett used to be the best in the game, but since his injury, he can't do it anymore. I'm not sure who I think the best full-timer is right now.

Big fan of Hu's glove too.


Isn't he on first?
 
2009-05-28 05:21:12 PM  

bacongood: I'm not sure who I think the best full-timer is right now.


Check out the youngster in Texas, Elvis Andrus. Maybe he's not the best RIGHT NOW, but after a year or two, he seems like a pretty safe bet.
 
2009-05-28 05:22:04 PM  

Dafatone: wmichaelis: Dafatone:Did you just claim that Jeter's rings and awards are often overlooked?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Is it? Then tell me, in the original article, where are they mentioned?

If he's not better than other shortstops, what, were they all taking 2004-2006 off? Is that why he got those Gold Gloves?

As murp0837 said, if he's so damned terrible, how has he managed to play 14 years for arguably the toughest team to play for? And not even be moved from his position when Alex Rodriguez came to town?

Okay, so the article should start something like this?

"Hey everyone, we're here to talk about Jeter's defense. But we want you all to know, before we get into some heavy statistics, that he won 3 gold gloves. Even though the readers of this sort of analysis certainly already know that, we have to mention it because if Jeter's gold gloves aren't mentioned EVERY SINGLE TIME his defense is discussed, they're "overlooked."

Jeter's in the lineup for his bat, and because his glove isn't terrible. Just worse than most of the other full-time shortstops in baseball.

Oh, and Murp0837: If you're a yankees fan, you must've seen John McDonald on the Blue Jays. He's light years ahead of Rollins. Not Vizquel, though.


According to the thread and the article, that's very wrong, he's beyond terrible. That's the position it seem like you've been taking. And that's what gets people annoyed. He's not, but everyone make it sound like he is.
 
2009-05-28 05:23:10 PM  

murp0837: How can you possibly judge whether a player should have fielded the ball, but didn't. I know enough about Sabermetrics


If you know enough about Sabermetrics to know the thinking on the deficiencies of defensive stats, you should know that most of the current stats, which are acknowledged to be imperfect, answer your question by analyzing every play in every game, and comparing it to every similar play in every game in the substantial record, and going from there.
 
2009-05-28 05:27:20 PM  

bacongood: I don't think that is the logic the Yankees used, but it would have been legit.


It was sentiment, pure and simple, from what I understand. You can't have a new guy take Capt. Intangible's position away, can you?

And I don't know if it would've been a legit reason to begin with - give up a huge competitive advantage for a potential marginal long term gain? Sorry, I don't buy it.
 
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