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(Some Damn Yankee)   Who is the second-worst infielder of all time, going all the way back to 1871? (Hint: he's an active player)   (hardballtimes.com) divider line 147
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6713 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 May 2009 at 2:58 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-05-28 12:46:43 PM
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd the Yankees Suck. Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yankees Suck!
 
2009-05-28 12:48:01 PM
I'm going with the Yankees.

Pretty much all of them.
 
2009-05-28 12:48:03 PM
How dare you call me out in that headline.
 
2009-05-28 12:48:56 PM
If you had to read the link to figure out who the worst defensive shortstop in recent baseball history is, you haven't been paying attention.

Yes, he dives a lot. I would dive a lot if you put me out there too, because I'm also too slow to play the position, and lots of fieldable grounders would roll past me.
 
2009-05-28 12:48:57 PM
I'm guessing Derek Jeter. He's not even the best shortstop on his own team. His defense has always been sub-par. Yeah, yeah, great leader, good (not great) offensive stats, but defensively terrible.
 
2009-05-28 12:51:40 PM
And they say Dungeons and Dragons players are geeky.
 
2009-05-28 12:51:47 PM
That is one ugly-ass website.
 
2009-05-28 12:52:04 PM
Damn, that guy did a lot of math to confirm what we were all thinking.
 
2009-05-28 12:53:03 PM
Lando Lincoln: And they say Dungeons and Dragons players are geeky.

Give them time. We baseball geeks have a hundred year head start on the D&D dorks on honing our geekiness.
 
2009-05-28 12:53:48 PM
Lando Lincoln: And they say Dungeons and Dragons players are geeky.

Little known fact: Derek Jeter sucks at Dungeons and Dragons.
 
2009-05-28 12:55:56 PM
chimp_ninja: Lando Lincoln: And they say Dungeons and Dragons players are geeky.

Little known fact: Derek Jeter sucks at Dungeons and Dragons.


Well, at least on defense.
 
2009-05-28 12:56:08 PM
Hey good job. You made baseball even more boring.
 
2009-05-28 01:05:52 PM
Ok, that's hilarious. He was more impressive when he was playing for Columbus, which I think I saw him at the couple games I went to when I was younger with my grandfather.
 
2009-05-28 01:08:28 PM
Adjective Bird Whiskey: Hey good job. You made baseball even more boring.

img5.imageshack.us
 
2009-05-28 01:28:33 PM
Adjective Bird Whiskey: Hey good job. You made baseball even more boring.

Hey now. We've had far too many interesting statistics lately from Nate Silver. It is good to see boring make a return to its home in statistical analysis.
 
2009-05-28 01:31:23 PM
It seems to me that with the availability of computers these days, all permutations and combinations of every single set of historical statistics in baseball could already have been added, subtracted, multiplied or divided by all possible sets of all of the others, and any player could be shown to be better than any other player, by some metric that someone would feel was important, probably because it showed that a hero of their team was good or a hero of another was bad. For instance, if you multiply Ted Williams' lifetime batting average by his ERA, he's a god, but if you divide he's a slacker.

When I was a kid, everything you needed to know fit on the back of a baseball card, and you got a stick of very durable bubble gum too.
 
2009-05-28 01:34:12 PM
img43.imageshack.us

/one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good
 
2009-05-28 01:39:12 PM
Ron Hubbard?
 
aba
2009-05-28 01:46:52 PM
Sure, he's horrible at defense, and we all know that...But how many of the Maxim Top 100 hottest women has subby/Author slept with?
 
2009-05-28 01:50:28 PM
Heinie Sand.

Wow, now that's a great baseball name. This guy just surpassed Clyde Klutz on my All Star list. Didn't he play designated hissyfitter for the Cleveland Pantywaists until he was traded to the Virginia Silicosi?
 
2009-05-28 02:19:45 PM
the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good

Yeah, good thing he made that play or else the Yankees would have lost to the A's instead of the Diamondbacks that year.


/Mr. November my aching ass
 
2009-05-28 02:30:09 PM
I miss Ozzie.
 
2009-05-28 02:34:38 PM
yogaFLAME: I miss Ozzie.

So do I, dammit.

/Padre fan
 
2009-05-28 02:43:03 PM
Nabb1: I'm guessing Derek Jeter. He's not even the best shortstop on his own team. His defense has always been sub-par. Yeah, yeah, great leader, good (not great) offensive stats, but defensively terrible.

If a 315 lifetime BA with over 1500 runs scored over 1,000 RBI's and the likelyhood of reaching over 3000 hits (as a shortstop no less)are just average offensive stats to you, then I'm guessing your baseball knowledge woudn't fill a thimble
 
2009-05-28 02:54:41 PM
gridlocksammy: Nabb1: I'm guessing Derek Jeter. He's not even the best shortstop on his own team. His defense has always been sub-par. Yeah, yeah, great leader, good (not great) offensive stats, but defensively terrible.

If a 315 lifetime BA with over 1500 runs scored over 1,000 RBI's and the likelyhood of reaching over 3000 hits (as a shortstop no less)are just average offensive stats to you, then I'm guessing your baseball knowledge woudn't fill a thimble


You're right. I gave the career offensive numbers short shrift. My mistake. I was thinking more of recent production. His numbers were down last year, but he seems to be doing better so far this year. I notice you aren't sticking up for his defense.
 
2009-05-28 03:01:20 PM
Nabb1: gridlocksammy: Nabb1: I'm guessing Derek Jeter. He's not even the best shortstop on his own team. His defense has always been sub-par. Yeah, yeah, great leader, good (not great) offensive stats, but defensively terrible.

If a 315 lifetime BA with over 1500 runs scored over 1,000 RBI's and the likelyhood of reaching over 3000 hits (as a shortstop no less)are just average offensive stats to you, then I'm guessing your baseball knowledge woudn't fill a thimble

You're right. I gave the career offensive numbers short shrift. My mistake. I was thinking more of recent production. His numbers were down last year, but he seems to be doing better so far this year. I notice you aren't sticking up for his defense.


and good doesn't mean average.

/happy no Eckstein on this list
 
2009-05-28 03:01:46 PM
I was forced to guess Julio Lugo. I was pleasantly surprised.
 
2009-05-28 03:03:46 PM
the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good

Best goddamned play I ever saw.
 
2009-05-28 03:04:33 PM
aba: Sure, he's horrible at defense, and we all know that...But how many of the Maxim Top 100 hottest women has subby/Author slept with?

Beards.
 
2009-05-28 03:04:56 PM
Mark Belanger won like 10 gold gloves at short stop for Baltimore back in the 70's. He was also THE WORST offensive short stop in the history of the world over that time.

You can make stats say almost anything.
 
2009-05-28 03:08:26 PM
Brooks Robinson representin'

imagecache.allposters.com
 
2009-05-28 03:08:30 PM
OK, so that article made my head hurt, as things with math often do. BUT -- correct me if I am wrong here -- does this formula not rely heavily on data that does not exist?

Also, was there really a MLB player named Heinie Sand?

I call shenanigans on the whole bidness.
 
2009-05-28 03:09:38 PM
The Dynamite Monkey: the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good

Best goddamned play I ever saw.


Jason Giambi deserves an assist on that out for not using what passes for a brain in that thick skull and not sliding. At least, the play might have been closer if Posada had to reach further to get the tag.
 
2009-05-28 03:10:16 PM
Oh, please let it be David Eckstein.

[Checks] Well, nearly as good. But, of course it should have course say "defensive infielder", and also it should say "relative to others playing his position".

lunchinlewis: Mark Belanger won like 10 gold gloves at short stop for Baltimore back in the 70's. He was also THE WORST offensive short stop in the history of the world over that time.

You can make stats say almost anything.


The stats say Belanger was a brilliant defensive SS, second only to the Wizard of Oz in the modern era. And I've never seen any offensive metric that said anything other than terrible with the bat in his hand. Whether you like RBI's or OPS+, Belanger sucked with the bat.
 
2009-05-28 03:13:05 PM
Every time I read about how Jeter is the worst defensive SS in baseball, I have to wonder if the person making the claim has watched the Indians at all for the past few seasons. I can't believe that Jeter has a worse range than Jhonny Peralta.
 
2009-05-28 03:13:38 PM
Hmmm, Hal Chase scores very very badly, but nearly all his contemporaries said he was
a) a total scumbag
b) the greatest defensive 1B whoever lived...

Interesting...
 
2009-05-28 03:13:45 PM
Nabb1: Jason Giambi deserves an assist on that out for not using what passes for a brain in that thick skull and not sliding. At least, the play might have been closer if Posada had to reach further to get the tag.

I agree with you. But if Jeter doesn't make that ridiculous shovel pass, he wouldn't have had to slide, and he didn't expect he'd have to.
 
2009-05-28 03:17:05 PM
Jeter would make a lot more plays if he wasn't busy holding A-Rod's dick.
 
2009-05-28 03:17:43 PM
senorpogo: Every time I read about how Jeter is the worst defensive SS in baseball,

That's not (quite) what is being said. They say he's been a poor SS, for a very long time. Peralta won't get the chance to build up that much cumulative defensive suck, because he doesn't hit like the young Jeter.
 
2009-05-28 03:18:12 PM
I immediately guessed Jeter, I'm glad I was right.

But then, I guess it was sort of obvious.
 
2009-05-28 03:22:09 PM
www.cbc.ca
is amused.
 
2009-05-28 03:25:20 PM
gwowen: senorpogo: Every time I read about how Jeter is the worst defensive SS in baseball,

That's not (quite) what is being said. They say he's been a poor SS, for a very long time. Peralta won't get the chance to build up that much cumulative defensive suck, because he doesn't hit like the young Jeter.


I didn't mean this specific article/measure, but rather the general conversation that always seems to follow in the wake of such articles.

Truly bad defensive middle infielders don't stay middle infielders for long. They either get shipped out of the league or relocated to somewhere else on the diamond (usually early in their career).

So while Jeter may be the worst of the guys who can cut it at shortstop, he's nowhere NEAR the worst infielder of all time like the headline suggests.
 
2009-05-28 03:33:06 PM
congrats stat geek with a grudge! next week an 82 page random stats account on why Mariano Rivera is the worst closer in modern history and you'll have achieved "stat geek for a bad baseball site" hall of fame status.

that much work to make your point actually works against your objective.

I find "Jeter sucks!" seems to do the trick a lot better.
 
2009-05-28 03:33:37 PM
raccoon2k: Brooks Robinson representin'

Brooks and Belanger.

Best left side of infield ever?
 
2009-05-28 03:34:11 PM
Bid McPhee 4 1882-1899 9585 251.3

Just wanted to point out that by ~1890 every other second baseman had adopted the new-fangled "wearing a glove" strategy. McPhee never did. The last 9-10 years or so of his career, he was the only one not wearing a glove. And he still was a better fielder than the lot of them.

/I know way too much about 19th century baseball
 
2009-05-28 03:34:59 PM
gwowen: senorpogo: Every time I read about how Jeter is the worst defensive SS in baseball,

That's not (quite) what is being said. They say he's been a poor SS, for a very long time. Peralta won't get the chance to build up that much cumulative defensive suck, because he doesn't hit like the young Jeter.


But Jeter is the worst defensive SS in baseball (out of starters, at least). If you compare him to Peralta, Jeter has slightly worse range, and is much worse at turning DPs. Peralta makes more errors, but not a lot more.

Jeter's actually been getting a bit better, though. Over the last two seasons, he's looked roughly average. Bravo!
 
2009-05-28 03:35:46 PM
Nabb1: The Dynamite Monkey: the biggest redneck here: /one of these makes up for an awful lot of regular-season missed grounders against Tampa from before they were good

Best goddamned play I ever saw.

Jeremy Giambi deserves an assist on that out for not using what passes for a brain in that thick skull and not sliding. At least, the play might have been closer if Posada had to reach further to get the tag.


Seriously, man. Slide, you asshole.
 
2009-05-28 03:37:11 PM
Yes, these results are flawed. And so long as we bear that in mind, they're better than no results.

Um, no, flawed results aren't better than no results.
 
2009-05-28 03:42:07 PM
DeWayne Mann:
But Jeter is the worst defensive SS in baseball (out of starters, at least). If you compare him to Peralta, Jeter has slightly worse range, and is much worse at turning DPs. Peralta makes more errors, but not a lot more.


Do you a source/link with said info?

Not trying to be hard here. Not saying it doesn't exist. I'd just like to look at it.

I just seriously have trouble believing than anyone out there has worse range than JP.
 
2009-05-28 03:44:26 PM
It was Jeremy Giambi I think.
 
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