bberg:

The inconsistency in storytelling is not the result of a huge script being trimmed down to fit in 2 hours, it's the result of the shiatty script being rewritten shiattily.

It's a long read, but it's worth it: What went wrong with Terminator (^)

Just read that. So yeah, it seems that they screwed around with a very-surprising yet farking stupid script to make a not-surprising and mostly straightforward script, badly chopping certain elements of the story in the process. Again, though, I wasn't expecting an Oscar-winner... I was happy enough with what it turned out to be because it was entertaining (and when large-caliber weapons hit walls lots of rocks flew), and it's just too bad it wasn't epic (like Star Trek is).

Seraphym: I can know how to play a Petrucci solo and still enjoy watching some other dude rip it out on stage

Interesting analogy. Would you still enjoy watching it if the person doing the solo was instead just an actor plucking at a guitar while the solo was playing over the speakers? Would you still enjoy it if it were a cartoon character video overlaid with the audio track?

I'm not saying that you can't enjoy CGI or animation. I'm saying that merely having pretty explosions and larger-than-life Terminators stopped impressing me a long time ago. The T-800 (after the skin came off) in T:S could have been an impressive fight if it weren't so obvious that he had no interest in actually killing Connor (until the last moment of course).

Pandar: Terminator washed the bad taste of Star Trek out of my mouth. Good to see the summer blockbusters aren't so worthless.

Whaaaaat? I frikkin loved Star Trek, it had great pacing, a decent enough story and loads of action. None of that ST:NG moral dilemmas in space BS and lots and lots of balls to the wall action. Not sure what you wanted from a Star Trek movie, but I thought it was right up there, even more fun to watch the Star Trek II which is the standard upon which to base all other Trek films.

Maybe it was the "alternate universe" that you didn't like. I thought it was far more plausible than going around the sun a few times real fast and then coming back to your own space time like nothing ever happened... except you now have a pet whale. Personally, I hope the next one goes right into epic battles with the Klingons and Romulons who are eager to carve up a weakened Federation after the loss of Vulcan. No McGuffin like the Genesis Device or any other contrivance, but all out space war with Kirk at the helm of the fleet's flagship.

dragonaut: spleef420: Treygreen13: I heard from a few people that it's actually not a bad movie. I'm not going to see it, but can anyone confirm/deny?

Car_Ramrod: I really wanted this to be a good movie, but reviews haven't been promising. First hand accounts?

you're asking this question on a site known for hating anything and everything.



Well I loved the movie. I have been a huge terminator fan for as long as I can remember, T2 was one of the first movies I ever saw. I thought the movie was waaay better then T3 but not as good as T1 or T2. The new robots were cool too. I usually like christian bale, but I didn't think he was too likeable in this movie. He just used his batman growl most of the time.
Marcus (new character) was awesome and very likeable. Anti-heros are more interesting characters IMO

CGI Arnold's appearence wasn't heavy handed or forced, I think it added a lot to the film despite it being brief.

I would give the movie an 8.5/10 very good will probably buy the dvd.

There were a few little things that bugged me, but nothing that derailed the film or took me out of the excitment.

***SPOILER***
I think they should have used the mini-ray skynet control thing more, especially during the infiltration towards the end.
I also think the original ending would have had more impact even though it would have pissed a lot of people off no doubt. (connor dies, marcus is made to look like him because connor was thought to be too important, cant risk the morale loss, but they didnt use it for the final cut)

*SPOILER*

... SPOILER ...


Personally, I thought the ending would've been better if Marcus died fighting the "Arnold" T-800, sacrificing himself for Connor in battle, etc... instead of transplanting his heart in the middle of the farking desert. That was a weak aspect of the movie.


/still liked it
//fark the haters, Terminators running around killing post-apocalyptic survivors = win

rcain:
Whaaaaat? I frikkin loved Star Trek, it had great pacing, a decent enough "story" and loads of action lens flares. None of that ST:NG moral dilemmas in space BS that was the core of the show and lots and lots of balls to the wall action lens flares. Not sure what you wanted from a Star Trek movie, but I thought it was right up there , even more fun to watch then Star Trek V Star Trek II which is the standard upon which to base all other Trek films with lens flares.

FTFY

Bale: I'm going to go...Do you want me to farking go trash your lights? DO YOU WANT ME TO FARKING TRASH YOUR? Then why are you trashing my scene?

The answer to that kind of statement to me would have been...

Yeah. Go ahead. I will not stop you from committing a criminal act of destroying THE STUDIO's property. You are a poor actor that cannot immerse himself into a scene and be one with it because of something "distracting" around him then how distracting will it be for you when the police pay a visit after I call them when you are done destroying "said lights?"

superoogie: rcain:
Whaaaaat? I frikkin loved Star Trek, it had great pacing, a decent enough "story" and loads of action lens flares. None of that ST:NG moral dilemmas in space BS that was the core of the show and lots and lots of balls to the wall action lens flares. Not sure what you wanted from a Star Trek movie, but I thought it was right up there , even more fun to watch then Star Trek V Star Trek II which is the standard upon which to base all other Trek films with lens flares.

FTFY

Aww, another crybaby Trekkie upset that the franchise was rescued. Get this through your latex Klingon skull: normal people enjoyed it. Most fans of the original series enjoyed it. Your opinion doesn't matter one iota, because we all know you'll watch anything with the Star Trek name on it anyway, just so you can cry about it on your blog.

LamOtter:

Aww, another crybaby Trekkie upset that the franchise was rescued. Get this through your latex Klingon skull: normal people enjoyed it. Most fans of the original series enjoyed it. Your opinion doesn't matter one iota, because we all know you'll watch anything with the Star Trek name on it anyway, just so you can cry about it on your blog.

How can fit so much wrong into one paragraph? Does it hurt when you do that? Does it actually cause you physical pain to be so certain and so mistaken at the same time?

superoogie: FTFY

superoogie: rcain:
Whaaaaat? I frikkin loved Star Trek, it had great pacing, a decent enough "story" and loads of action lens flares. None of that ST:NG moral dilemmas in space BS that was the core of the show and lots and lots of balls to the wall action lens flares. Not sure what you wanted from a Star Trek movie, but I thought it was right up there , even more fun to watch then Star Trek V Star Trek II which is the standard upon which to base all other Trek films with lens flares.

FTFY

So be it, I just hope they keep cranking out more like that and ruin Star Trek for you forever :)

Personally, it's very rare for me to leave a theatre feeling exhilarated after watching a movie.
And Star Trek did that, I was like "wow.. what a rush" for a couple days after. Not sure what you were expecting, but all I want from an action movie is a load of fun and it delivered.

Hell, Star Trek is the only reason I went to go see Terminator, I was jonesing for that high again.
Unfortunately, I walked away saying "meh", it was ok, but I could've waited for netflix.

superoogie: LamOtter:

Aww, another crybaby Trekkie upset that the franchise was rescued. Get this through your latex Klingon skull: normal people enjoyed it. Most fans of the original series enjoyed it. Your opinion doesn't matter one iota, because we all know you'll watch anything with the Star Trek name on it anyway, just so you can cry about it on your blog.

How can fit so much wrong into one paragraph? Does it hurt when you do that? Does it actually cause you physical pain to be so certain and so mistaken at the same time?

Haha, struck a nerve there! You must be a closet bitter Trekkie. I can tell because you said "moral dilemmas in space" were the core of the show. My advice to you: Live long and prosper!

Scott the Twat
Ah da-da da-da, like this in the background.

I lolled.
Then I got up and told someone else about how I lolled.
Then I posted on the internet, regarding said lol.

I liked the movie, there are too many people weighing it in against T2, that makes any sequels after it pale in comparison, people expected way too much. Terminator Salvation was a good film, nothing ground breaking, but a good film nonetheless. Its better than the 3rd film and the first in my opinion. I wish the movie had some more substance and the original ending where Conner was supposed to die.

They've already released titles for the next two:

Teminator: Salvage
Terminator: Full Throttle

LamOtter: superoogie:
How can fit so much wrong into one paragraph? Does it hurt when you do that? Does it actually cause you physical pain to be so certain and so mistaken at the same time?

Haha, struck a nerve there! You must be a closet bitter Trekkie. I can tell because you said "moral dilemmas in space" were the core of the show. My advice to you: Live long and prosper!

Yes, my god, it's like you've known me all my life! Go watch some more lens flares and let the adults talk, okay? Toodles.

*spoilers, ye be warned*

I liked "Terminator: Salvation." I went in wanting to see some cool action sequences, and that's what I got. Really, the action and the effects were superb here, and it wasn't blatantly obvious (a la the new "Star Wars" movies) that they were effects. Sam Worthington was good and I loved Anton Yelchin.

The setting of the movie reminded me of Fallout 3, which was cool. I liked the idea of the resistance having a special radio frequency or something where they could share information on Skynet and the Terminators.

Somebody upthread said to leave the theater after they get on the helicopter at the end, and I have to agree. The dusty heart transplant is...yeah, head-smackingly dumb.

Also, people have mentioned a plot twist. There's only one "twist" that I noticed, and they told you IN THE TRAILER that Marcus was a Terminator. That was the only thing that really pissed me off about the movie. That could've been a good shock of a scene if they hadn't given it away. (Kind of like in "The Island," when it takes them 45 minutes to reveal that Ewan MacGregor and Scarlett Johanssen are clones, even though it was in every trailer and plot summary about the movie. Oh, I was angry after that movie.)

So, for me, the entertainment factor trumped the "dumb moviemaking decisions" factor with this one.

RE bberg 2009-05-28 04:51:37 PM
"So what action impresses me? The freerunning opening chase from Casino Royale. Good wire-fighting (Matrix, Crouching Tiger). Car chases that actually use cars. Fights where I honestly believe the characters want to kill each other (generator fight in Serenity)."

This. That first part of Casino Royale was impressive as shiat.

When you can tell most of a scene is CGI, it's like watching a cartoon. Yeah, movies are make-believe, but I need a certain amount of shiat that looks real in order to suspend disbelief.

There's a place for CGI, but on its own, it's just pretty pictures. If the story sucks, you might as well just watch highlight reels from every sci fi movie of the last 20 years rather than an actual movie.

I could have written a better Terminator screenplay. I at least kinda care what the story's about.

OK, so based on the reviews, and opinions of folks here who seem to understand what makes a good film, I'm 90% sure I won't see this. Even though I'm a huge James Cameron, Arnold, and Terminator fan.

My question for anyone interested is:

Is T:S to T1, as Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was to Raiders of the Lost Ark?

thrasherrr: Xenomech: A question for those who have seen the movie: How much will someone who is not expecting Citizen Kane and just wants to see robots shooting shiat up enjoy this movie?

Less than if the movie was only robots shooting up shiat.

For your sake, after the heroes all get into the helicopter and the big Skynet site blows up...

LEAVE THE THEATRE IMMEDIATELY.

I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions and I want them answered immediately.

I'm not expecting much out of hollywood.
/That's why I don't pay to see their movies.
//Or watch them.

OOBE Juan Kenobi: They've already released titles for the next two:

Teminator: Salvage
Terminator: Full Throttle XXX: Hunter: The Wayward: Reckoning 2: The Rebloodening.

FTfY

Sgt Otter:

/But then again, it doesn't make sense that the T-800 "Arnold model" would be already online in T:S, when a much older Kyle Reese calls them "new" in T1.
//But blowing up Cyberdyne in T2 changed the timeline, so who the fark knows.

I don't know if this has been said in the other 200+ posts, but here goes.

The only way it could make some sort of sense that Skynet had the T-800 already has something to do with the delay of when it went online. I think the delay was around 7 years, so by the time it finally went online it would be built on top of more powerful hardware, and thus be able to learn at an even faster rate than it would have if it went online on the original date.

Christian Bale was originally cast as the cyborg, I think if he hadn't strong-armed the director and changed the script and played that character, the movie might have had a chance. As it was, the ending stank.

I bet he was thinking he could turn it into another money train with 2 sequels as John Connor. Well good luck with that now.

Animatronik: As it was, the ending stank.

The original ending had John Conner dying and them peeling off his skin and putting it over the dead terminators frame. Be happy with the ending you got.

I watched T:S and thought the movie blew. It starts in 2003 with Marcus Wright about to be executed and Helena Bohnam Carter is a caner patient who wants him to donate his body to science to help cure her cancer? What kind of cancer and how is his lethal-injected corpse gonna help anyone?
Fast Forward 15 years and the resistance storms a skynet compound looking for information on the new terminator robots, but somehow all the computers are made with human interfaces?
Big explosions, fighting robots, blah blah blah. Marcus Wright comes out of a big ass hole in the ground, completely oblivious to the 15 years of war that has raged on, or the fact that he was supposed to be dead.
If Marcus is a terminator built around 2003-2004, why is he more advanced than any existing terminators? If he was made in 2018, why did skynet use him and none of the other thousands of human prisoners? In fact, why was Skynet taking so many humans prisoner. It's never explained. If Skynet wants to kill John Conner, and Marcus is hooked up to Skynet's system, then why didn't Marcus just snap into kill mode and kill Conner on site? BAM! Movie over.
Or, why does Skynet take Reese hostage and throw him into a holding cell, baiting a trap for Conner to come rescue him? Just kill Reese outright because Conner's coming whether he's alive or dead? BAM! Movie over.
So Marcus makes it all the way back to Skynet HQ where the audience learns of the evil plan to kill both Conner and Reese, but Skynet leaves Marcus alive (even repairs him!) to make his own decisions, which of course, he goes off to save Conner and Reese. Why didn't Skynet just shut down Marcus when his mission was over?
Next, Conner gets stabbed through the heart by the T-800, but the resistance med-evacs him to a safe zone in the desert. His wife, the doctor, says that his heart has been punctured and he will soon bleed to death. So Marcus, donates his own human heart to Conner (even after the T-800 punched the shiat out of it in battle and Conner had to kick start it with power cables). Anyway, #1)what are the chances that the two have the same blood type, and 2)Maggie Brewster was a freakin veterinarian, now I'm supposed to believe she's capable of successfully performing a heart transplant in a tent in the desert?
And finally, if Skynet knows Reese is the future father of Conner, why does Skynet even bother building a time machine in the first place? duurrrrr...

T4 was a great movie EXCEPT for the way they portrayed Skynet. Instead of being a coldly logical AI that methodically took out its enemies, Skynet was a farking Bond villain that held everyone captive and went on long monologues about its plans until they could escape.

WTF?


I'll say this though...The fact that Christian Bale may or may not be a douchebag makes zero difference to me as to whether I see a movie with him in it.

Saw the first Terminator on Skinemax in my friend's basement, saw Ahnold plucking out eyeballs and whaserface's boobies.

T2 blew out the box offices, pure early post-80s glory.

T3 a little on the bland side, liked the dark ending.

T4 - oh for pete's sake, ignore the little plot issues, drink your concealed rum in Coke bottle and enjoy! It was a hell of a lot of fun!!! Hollywood isn't capable of scripts anymore, they write boom-boom and blow-ups.

MIguy: Animatronik: As it was, the ending stank.

The original ending had John Conner dying and them peeling off his skin and putting it over the dead terminators frame. Be happy with the ending you got.

I'm not, I like that one better. In fact, I'm thinking I could piece together a better script from pieces in this thread.

Also, another problem with the movie is that it didn't have very good battle scenes and weaponry, after all the money was spent. The movie needed more of that, it's a star wars type of story.

Daercoma: How is it a bomb? And why isn't Night at the Museum getting this kind of backlash. I rather enjoyed it.

pretty much all mainstream movies have been unmitigated shiat lately. i can't think of one i would actually bother paying to see in a theater. that includes star trek.

/j.j. abrams can suck it
//ducks & runs

bidness: dragonaut: T2 was one of the first movies I ever saw.

Dear god, I'm old.

/The original Star Wars was one of the first movies I ever saw in theatres


Saw it at a drive-in with my little legs dangling through the sun roof of our gold VW bug.

Great childhood memory, yes we are old.

Benjimin_Dover: Bale: I'm going to go...Do you want me to farking go trash your lights? DO YOU WANT ME TO FARKING TRASH YOUR? Then why are you trashing my scene?

The answer to that kind of statement to me would have been...

Yeah. Go ahead. I will not stop you from committing a criminal act of destroying THE STUDIO's property. You are a poor actor that cannot immerse himself into a scene and be one with it because of something "distracting" around him then how distracting will it be for you when the police pay a visit after I call them when you are done destroying "said lights?"



I would have gone with "professionals don't throw tantrums" and winked at him.

annie_fannie: Daercoma: How is it a bomb? And why isn't Night at the Museum getting this kind of backlash. I rather enjoyed it.

pretty much all mainstream movies have been unmitigated shiat lately. i can't think of one i would actually bother paying to see in a theater. that includes star trek.

/j.j. abrams can suck it
//ducks & runs

WAAAAAH I DON'T LIKE MAINSTREAM BECAUSE I'M A NONCOMFORMIST JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER HATERS

lamecat 2009-05-28 02:46:03 PM IMO, it sucked just as badly as the third one. Explosions, no real plot, forced drama, I was looking at my watch ten minutes in.
===============================================

You're watching a summer action movie and expecting a plot?

Are you stupid?

Robot Devil's Advocate: OOBE Juan Kenobi: They've already released titles for the next two:

Teminator: Salvage
Terminator: Full Throttle XXX: Hunter: The Wayward: Reckoning 2: The Rebloodening: Resurrection

FTfY

FTFY

Ok, I just got back from watching T4. My thoughts: it was a lot of fun, but, yeah, the script sucked bigtime. Watch it for the effects, action sequences, and Moon Bloodgood.

The more I think about the movie afterward, however, the more disappointed I am in it. It could've been so much more. Is it really that hard to write an intelligent script?


/PS: Not enough terminator action, IMHO. Needed way more T-600s.

Animatronik: I'm not, I like that one better. In fact, I'm thinking I could piece together a better script from pieces in this thread.

They basically rewrote the entire move based on Bale demanding to play John Conner rather than Marcus Wright. The original script centered on Marcus and John Conner is never even shown onscreen until the final few minutes of the movie. I still liked it but after reading the original plot, I liked the original script a lot more except for the whole skinning John Conner thing.

Needed way more T-600s.


INDEED

T4 was a great movie EXCEPT for the way they portrayed Skynet. Instead of being a coldly logical AI that methodically took out its enemies, Skynet was a farking Bond villain that held everyone captive and went on long monologues about its plans until they could escape.


I agree - this was one of the things that really bothered me. I think the entire Skynet interpretation was half-assed, and it didn't seem like the writers and McG put much thought into it - almost like they just hashed out whatever...

In all three other movies, there were tons of terminators walking around, but you only see maybe 3 or 4 in Salvation??? WTF?! And the "trading hearts" sequence was just dumb. Don't you have to check a blood-type first?

I definitely like mindless action sequences just like any other action / summer blockbuster junkie, but you definitely have to have some intelligence and writing skills to make an overall great movie. Like Wolverine, it was a big let down.

I would watch Salvation again for the action and T-600 sequences, and I respect that McG used a lot of real time action over CGI. If he directs the next one, it will be a disappointment though... But you can't expect much from someone willing to make a Charlie's Angles movie in the first place. Why didn't they pick Mostow??? Or even another action directer that had some credibility already?

on the plus side...

CURRENT RATINGS:
FRESH: 10/10 10/10 Movie: Drag Me To Hell (2009)

DRAG ME TO HELL was quite simply one off the best movies of the year the best horror film in a very long time.Raimi is back at what he does best making horror films blending gore and the scares and fun into an perfect film .

I hear that Spidey 4 will have 8 villians with 10 minute increments each, and even more song and dance numbers...

This movie was so bad, some pregnant lady in the audience said she was considering an abortion she was so dissappointed by it.

/or she was joking
//either way, disturbingly bad

MIguy: Animatronik: I'm not, I like that one better. In fact, I'm thinking I could piece together a better script from pieces in this thread.

They basically rewrote the entire move based on Bale demanding to play John Conner rather than Marcus Wright. The original script centered on Marcus and John Conner is never even shown onscreen until the final few minutes of the movie. I still liked it but after reading the original plot, I liked the original script a lot more except for the whole skinning John Conner thing.

I thought Bale was even more wooden than usual in this movie. He wood have made a great cyborg terminator.

Okay, got about half way through the comments and am surprised about people yelling about Terminator canon/time line being screwed up.

I know farkers aren't the BRIGHTEST people, but I think you all missed the god damned point of T2 and T3. THEY CHANGED THE FUTURE!

All that stuff that the first Kyle told Sarah about DOESN'T HAPPEN THE SAME WAY ANYMORE!

Judgment Day was pushed back about 6 years, giving Cyberdyne/USAF time to build/do more stuff. Not gonna spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it anymore than that, just had to nerd rage at the complete lack of understanding how Terminator temporal mechanics work... since the second movie.

/Back to my basement

altrocks: Okay, got about half way through the comments and am surprised about people yelling about Terminator canon/time line being screwed up.

I know farkers aren't the BRIGHTEST people, but I think you all missed the god damned point of T2 and T3. THEY CHANGED THE FUTURE!

All that stuff that the first Kyle told Sarah about DOESN'T HAPPEN THE SAME WAY ANYMORE!

Judgment Day was pushed back about 6 years, giving Cyberdyne/USAF time to build/do more stuff. Not gonna spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it anymore than that, just had to nerd rage at the complete lack of understanding how Terminator temporal mechanics work... since the second movie.

/Back to my basement

then, if kyle reese was delayed by a millisecond in his life as compared to T1, then a different sperm would impregnate Sarah and John would be a completely different person

I saw it. Good waste of money and time. Go see it, but don't expect a masterpiece.

mgbeach: then, if kyle reese was delayed by a millisecond in his life as compared to T1, then a different sperm would impregnate Sarah and John would be a completely different person


You don't understand. Kyle Reese has magical Hollywood sperm.

Saw it, it's good except for one annoying tidbit. You know how Bale does that gruff, hard to understand sometimes voice in The Dark Knight? That's what John Connor sounds like, all the time. I expect he grew up smoking a dozen packs a day with a permanent voice like that.

Marla Singer's Laundry: Kronnyj: That movie blew, we left 20 minutes into it.

Oh dear god, you sat through the credits. Your opinion means more than if you actually, oh, I don't know, sat through the film, dipstick.

I saw Star Trek last night. I still don't like one major event they did in the movie, but thought the movie was the best Trek movie since Kahn.

GORDON: I wanted to like the movie so badly. Then I heard it was PG-13. Then I saw it, and realized it might be the worst movie I've seen in years.

You've never seen The Love Guru, then?

Young Lukas: Saw it, it's good except for one annoying tidbit. You know how Bale does that gruff, hard to understand sometimes voice in The Dark Knight? That's what John Connor sounds like, all the time. I expect he grew up smoking a dozen packs a day with a permanent voice like that.



Uh oh. I hope Bale doesn't get stuck in that zone where he now plays the same character in all of the movies he makes from now on. Like how Al Pacino has played the same character in every movie he's been in since Scent of a Woman.

Hoo-ahh.

MonkeyAngst: bberg: - Machines start out as a credible threat but by the end they're a joke

... Where are my lasers? If Skynet isn't even on schedule to develop lasers, how can they possibly hope to meet the deadline for time travel? Apparently they were too busy working on silly-looking giant Terminators which somehow end up being less scary than a naked Austrian?



Phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range dumbass...