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(Gallup)   Just like President Obama, a majority of Americans oppose gay marriage   (gallup.com) divider line 1841
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20728 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 May 2009 at 11:52 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-05-27 12:30:10 PM  
Gwendolyn: treesloth: Is there any way we could turn this into a gun thread? That would be much more enjoyable.



Here ya go.


Me likey.
 
2009-05-27 12:30:19 PM  
I think we need to differentiate between a wedding and a marriage.
I vote to make a wedding religious and a marriage civil.
anybody can marry but only 'one man and one woman' can wed.

I have a disclaimer though, I fully support gay marriage but I feel that the first time a coupe of college jocks decide to get married just to get benefits it will make a mockery of the whole thing.
 
2009-05-27 12:30:38 PM  
Nemo's Brother: Maybe one day we will have a President who isn't retarded. By your own definition, Obama is a mouth breather because he:
1. Believes in a "sky wizard".
2. Opposes gay marriage.


Yeah that does suck. My suspicion is that he is lying about those positions at least in part. Something he did in order to be elected.
 
2009-05-27 12:30:58 PM  
EsteeFlwrPot: I don't understand what the debate is about. There is separation between church and state. Marriage is a religious concoction isn't it? Civil unions would be the state equivalent to a marriage and homosexuals already have that right don't they? If that's not the way it is then that's the way it should be. That way if a gay couple wants to get married and they cant they can take it up with their priest/rabbi/whatever and leave the government out of it so they can use the time to debate more pressing issues like the economy and education.

/my 2 cents


The problem is that straight people don't want civil unions to come from the state and marriage to come from the churches. There are already plenty of Churches that marry gay people. What this all boils down to is that a pretty sizeable chunk of people feel that homosexuality is inherently against God's will, and they want to use the law to discourage people from doing something their religious dogma teaches them is a sin. To that end, they want to deny people the rights and protections of law that they enjoy. The NV governor vetoed a bill yesterday granting civil unions to the gays... he said he did so because NV has a law against gay marriages... as much as some of the conservatives in states that have civil unions say it isn't about rights... what they've done in some places is set up civil unions that are not on par with marriages in terms of legal protections, and in other states, they purposely confound the issues, all in an attempt to deny people equal rights. All else being equal, I think it's high time for another stonewall again...
 
2009-05-27 12:30:58 PM  
WayToBlue: 1,,015 calls to people who are home in the middle of the day and who have nothing better to do than talk to a surveyor does not a unbiased poll make.

I agree. Most of that demographic (people sitting at home with nothing to do) are liberal. If anything I would expect the results to slant even more anti-gay marriage.
 
2009-05-27 12:31:22 PM  
russsssman: hailin: Well I think protecting "the sanctity of marriage" is a damn joke in this country.

If people were REALLY serious about protecting marriage, then they would make divorce illegal. Divorce ruins marriage more than a same sex marriage ever will.

Try telling that to my dad and his first wife. The perfect marriage until he ran up to the hospital to meet her during her first child labor only to walk in to her secret lesbian lover and them telling him to leave because "They are done with him".


Just saying, if divorce were outlawed people would wait a long time before getting married and avoid making mistakes.
 
2009-05-27 12:31:38 PM  
EsteeFlwrPot: Theaetetus: Nope. Hence why you don't understand what the debate is about.

How is marriage not religious? You have a ceremony with a religious figure bringing you together in "holy matrimony."


Wife and I are both atheists and the state considers us "married". There was no religious ceremony. Marriage is a contract can be completely separated from religion.
 
2009-05-27 12:31:40 PM  
CrankMyBlueSax: This is no surprise. A majority of Americans believe in a magical sky wizard, roughly half of Americans voted for W, twice. The following graph clearly demonstrates a characteristic of half of Americans.

www.iqscorenow.com

...


Is anyone else distrubed that the totals on that chart exceed 100%?
 
2009-05-27 12:31:43 PM  
Animation: I don't think so. I have a liberal friend who says this all the time, but I keep reminding him that conservatives breed, same as anybody, and they raise their kids with their values, same as anybody. When I told him that my workplace was mostly conservatives, he said 'they are all older though, right?' I had to tell him, no, they are mostly young. I enjoy giving him nightmares. :)

Hmmm.

What happened with slavery and civil rights and abortion and porn in hotel rooms and all those other things you guys used to oppose?
 
2009-05-27 12:31:58 PM  
Huskadoodle: The same people who are decrying majority rule (Democracy BTW) are the same people who admired this post.

One advantage to having Obama in the WH is that, unlike Bush, when public opinion swings to favor gay marriage Obama's opinion will swing with it.

Cake and eat it too?


The founding principle of this country is not democracy. It is, to quote the Declaration of Independence, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Representative democracy (heavily restricted, of course) was instituted to facilitate these principles. In this case, it is pretty clearly hindering #2 and #3.

See this page (new window) for an example of how one of our founding fathers detested the idea of "majority rule".
 
2009-05-27 12:31:59 PM  
hulk hogan meat shoes: Ant: DamnYankees: What the frak is up with this:



40% of people want gay sex to be illegal??

40% of people are stupid, and think their personal preferences should be enforced by law

If they really wanted to, most states could go after anyone having sex that isn't vaginal, because any hole that's not the pussay is considered sodomy. Even straight blowjobs are technically illegal in the majority of places.

Also, I'm not against gay marriage, but comparing this struggle to civil rights is discounting the latter in a huge way. Are gays having fire hoses turned on them? Do they have to use separate bathrooms or sit somewhere assigned on a bus? Is it legal to kick them out of a restaurant because you just don't like their kind? I'm not saying there isn't bigotry and hate, it's just not state sponsored. You talk to anyone who went through the civil rights movement (white or black) and the idea of comparing this struggle to theirs usually does nothing more than sicken them.


This is no different than the Holocaust. Perez Hilton is the Anne Frank of our generation!
 
2009-05-27 12:32:21 PM  
WaltzingMathilda: Didn't a majority of Americans oppose emancipation for slaves? Or the right of women to vote? Since when does mob rule override the constitution? Wasn't that document drafted to subordinate mob rule to its principles?

AIG Bonuses? writ of attainder?
 
MFL
2009-05-27 12:32:30 PM  
crab66
Obama has always opposed gay marriage...where do the conservatards get this stuff.

Obama opposes gay marriage(wink wink) because the polls tell him too. Just like how he's only going to raise taxes (wink wink) on people making over 250K.
 
2009-05-27 12:32:46 PM  
perpetual_lotion: jst3p:

A marriage is, among other things, a legal contract with existing framework in our legal system. Change to allow for two same sex parties to participate is simple. Making it a contract between three or more brings up issues that will take longer to figure out. In theory you are correct. In application legalizing gay marriage only requires the stroke of a pen. Polygamy requires an entire new framework to be built.

well, if all that's holding us back is the lack of existence of a form, then we should get on this. There are plenty of sect-members that would very much like to see this legalized. I'm pretty sure they already have adapted forms created too.


That isn't the only thing holding us back, that is what makes it orders of magnitude more difficult than the issue of gay marriage.

The support of society is holding us back.
 
2009-05-27 12:32:49 PM  
Jpud73: Ant: DamnYankees: What the frak is up with this:



40% of people want gay sex to be illegal??

40% of people are stupid, and think their personal preferences should be enforced by law

THIS...for christ sakes...THIS!!

Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it should be illegal.



Heh please report to the cross on National Park grounds thread please.
 
2009-05-27 12:32:54 PM  
Raiden333: This is the same book that forbids eating shrimp or sitting in the same chair a woman on her period has sat in.

Only the Seven Laws of Noah apply to non-Jews. One of these laws is a prohibition against sexual transgression, including male homosexuality, incest and bestiality.

The 613 laws outlined in the Torah were always meant to apply to Jews, and only Jews. Most Christians don't see themselves as beholden to the Jewish laws.
 
2009-05-27 12:33:15 PM  
But what happens when a majority of Americans are gay married? They should have done a poll with a question like this, "If you were gay married, would you be for or against gay marriage?"
 
2009-05-27 12:33:24 PM  
Tell you what religious fundies. Let the government keep marriage and apply it to whatever they deem fit for marriage and we will change the name of your "marriage" to "spiritual union". Obviously since you see no difference other than a name, you will not have a problem with this arrangement.
 
2009-05-27 12:33:27 PM  
russsssman: Try telling that to my dad and his first wife. The perfect marriage until he ran up to the hospital to meet her during her first child labor only to walk in to her secret lesbian lover and them telling him to leave because "They are done with him".

ZOMG! Some gays are cheating assholes! Just like some straights!

Yes, your single anecdote is EXACTLY why gay marriage should be illegal. Because one couple ruined it for the rest of them.
 
2009-05-27 12:33:41 PM  
cchris_39: Jack Johnson was marrying white women in the early 1900's. As far as I can tell, interracial marriage was never illegal.

Just a quick question before I decide whether to waste time responding... Are you retarded?
 
2009-05-27 12:33:50 PM  
cchris_39: Jack Johnson was marrying white women in the early 1900's. As far as I can tell, interracial marriage was never illegal.

It depended on what state you lived in.
 
2009-05-27 12:33:51 PM  
nopokerface: If you mix peanut butter with peanut butter does it make a Reese's Cup?

Peanut butter with the what now?
 
2009-05-27 12:33:51 PM  
CrankMyBlueSax: This is no surprise. A majority of Americans believe in a magical sky wizard, roughly half of Americans voted for W, twice. The following graph clearly demonstrates a characteristic of half of Americans.



Often it is unfortunate, and extremely inconvenient that we have to drag stupidity along for the ride. However, our compassion compels us to do so. Plus, the world needs ditch diggers.


Do you know how dumb the average white women is? Men are dumber then then that.
 
2009-05-27 12:33:52 PM  
Eponymous: As bad as the gay-haters are....I've gotta say that the vocal gay activists come across as truly miserable and hateful people. It's hard to respect the arguments of a group that is so tone deaf regarding the levels of it's retoric and personal attacks.

well, considering they belong to a group being marginalized, yeah I can certainly understand them being pissed. Maybe not the best way to go about getting their way, but still...



tombotia: But this whole "we want legal rights AND the church to give us our props" is too much. Churches don't bend to the will of politics, just like they're not supposed to influence politics in return.

where is this being asked for? I've yet to really see anyone mention it, but it seems to be the one thing the fundies are deathly afraid of. no one is saying that by legalizing Gay Marriage that somehow this will lead to forcing churches to marry gays. And if they're too dense to figure out that Marriage does nto equal Religious Ceremony, no matter how much they say it does, then that's their farking problem that they're too stupid to wrap their minds around semantics.
 
2009-05-27 12:34:04 PM  
mofomisfit: You're correct on that narrow point. Funny how you didn't address anything else I've said.

The institution of marriage was not ever in doubt.

Judging from your spelling flame, you probably need to learn facts by rote memory.

It was the mixing of the races that was feared.
It was the mixing of the races that was feared.
It was the mixing of the races that was feared.

/ you're welcome
// i've left you a grammer error or two
/// fetch, boy!
 
2009-05-27 12:34:14 PM  
EsteeFlwrPot: Theaetetus: Nope. Hence why you don't understand what the debate is about.

How is marriage not religious? You have a ceremony with a religious figure bringing you together in "holy matrimony." If that isn't religious then I don't know what is. I know couples go to court to get their marriage license but I don't think it should be called that, it should be a license for a civil union. There is a mix of church and state in this issue and that is the problem.


I didn't get married in front of a judge, I got married in a private chapel with a friend as the officiant. It had nothing to do with religion, but it still wasn't performed by a judge or magistrate. Also, there isn't some law that dictates what the vows are, so nobody is required to include the term "holy matrimony" in their ceremony.

Oh I'm sorry, this is Fark. What I meant to say was FAIL.
 
2009-05-27 12:34:16 PM  
In the end it shouldnt matter, Obama being for or against it should be a null point, it should be a state by state decision, the Fed should have no stake in the matter.

California voted, multiple times if I recall, and banned gay marriage. just like if my state banned Conceal and carry, Id just have to live with it (or break the law and carry a concealed weapon) those are my choices if I want to continue living in this state. If I dont like it, I can relocate to a state that is more in line with my views. If you want to get married and you are gay, lesbian, whatever, then contemplate moving to a state that is more in line with your view.
 
2009-05-27 12:34:22 PM  
hailin: russsssman: hailin: Well I think protecting "the sanctity of marriage" is a damn joke in this country.

If people were REALLY serious about protecting marriage, then they would make divorce illegal. Divorce ruins marriage more than a same sex marriage ever will.

Try telling that to my dad and his first wife. The perfect marriage until he ran up to the hospital to meet her during her first child labor only to walk in to her secret lesbian lover and them telling him to leave because "They are done with him".

Just saying, if divorce were outlawed people would wait a long time before getting married and avoid making mistakes.


Just saying... They dated for 3 years and knew eachother pretty well. She was a very booksmart lady and had the entire manipulation planned out with her secret softball loving lesbian hippy lover... How well do you ever know somebody... Just sayin....
 
2009-05-27 12:34:26 PM  
yourargumentisinvalid.com
 
2009-05-27 12:34:26 PM  
elchip: Raiden333: This is the same book that forbids eating shrimp or sitting in the same chair a woman on her period has sat in.

Only the Seven Laws of Noah apply to non-Jews. One of these laws is a prohibition against sexual transgression, including male homosexuality, incest and bestiality.

The 613 laws outlined in the Torah were always meant to apply to Jews, and only Jews. Most Christians don't see themselves as beholden to the Jewish laws.


Interesting. Mind giving me the passage in Leviticus that says this? Along with the other 6 laws?
 
2009-05-27 12:34:36 PM  
friendinpa: One advantage to having Obama in the WH is that, unlike Bush, when public opinion swings to favor gay marriage Obama's opinion will swing with it.

hahahaha

THIS.
 
2009-05-27 12:34:39 PM  
Nabb1: Good thing there isn't a law preventing the government from doing that sort of thing, huh?

I could've sworn there were already laws on the books guaranteeing people equal protection.

A simple majority showed me that isn't the case.
 
2009-05-27 12:34:55 PM  
ElChicoTemido: I vote to make a wedding religious and a marriage civil.

I agree but I guess I just don't like the word marriage. Civil union sounds better to me. Maybe i'm just picky.
 
2009-05-27 12:34:58 PM  
I support ghey marriage.


Go ghey marriage!!!!!
 
2009-05-27 12:35:04 PM  
Many of you have very strong feelings about people you will never meet and situations that will never happen to you personally.

Armchair assholes.
 
2009-05-27 12:35:07 PM  
Wait, so the majority of Americans have the same beliefs as the sky wizard zombie worshipping anti-gay marriage President?

I never looked at it like that before.


This is a issue for the states to decide. California has had it's shot, and it has FAILED.

Don't like it? Well I don't either. Move to a state that will let you marry, or just say "Hey, we are married. Look, we have rings n shiat. And we argue alot and stopped having sex too".

Done.
 
2009-05-27 12:35:09 PM  
tombotia: letrole: Homosexuality is a learned behaviour. The instinct for sex involves thrusting and groping and kissing and so forth. If you get horny at the sight of a naked man, or if you get horny at the sight of a naked woman, it is only because you have been taught to make that association.

So is being a douche bag trolling the clubs downtown looking for an easy lay. But we don't make laws against that either.

And I dunno about it being a learned behaviour, but even if it were I think it's a product of years of experiences, not just some momentary get up and decide your gay thing. If you finally realize you're gay chances are it's something that was brewing in your brain for a long time.

I just don't get why it upsets people so much. I'm not gay, but I really just don't care about them either. Whereas some people I know use any chance they get to slur and insult gays. Just let it go already.


Pro Tip:

You are responding to a guy who calls himself "Le Troll"


/he will respond that it is his surname, that is his game
//mine is to educate and hope he someday goes away
 
2009-05-27 12:35:13 PM  
There is a big difference between being born with a different skin color and the choice/conditioning to be homosexual.

The latest American Psychological report denies that there is any evidence of such a thing as a 'gay gene' or that it is inherited and that it is an acquired behavior.

Anyhow.. I propose that we just get rid of the benefits of marriage all together and let the government set up custodial agreements for the raising of children.

IMNSHO, in any type of marriage or union, one of the partners becomes a second class citizen...

I do not believe there should have ever been such a thing as a joint tax return.. we are all individual citizens responsible to the government. We are all individually responsible for our own health care, retirement, etc.
 
2009-05-27 12:35:20 PM  
hulk hogan meat shoes: Ant: DamnYankees: What the frak is up with this:



40% of people want gay sex to be illegal??

40% of people are stupid, and think their personal preferences should be enforced by law

If they really wanted to, most states could go after anyone having sex that isn't vaginal, because any hole that's not the pussay is considered sodomy. Even straight blowjobs are technically illegal in the majority of places.

Also, I'm not against gay marriage, but comparing this struggle to civil rights is discounting the latter in a huge way. Are gays having fire hoses turned on them? Do they have to use separate bathrooms or sit somewhere assigned on a bus? Is it legal to kick them out of a restaurant because you just don't like their kind? I'm not saying there isn't bigotry and hate, it's just not state sponsored. You talk to anyone who went through the civil rights movement (white or black) and the idea of comparing this struggle to theirs usually does nothing more than sicken them.


One murder isn't as bad as the Holocaust, so obviously we shouldn't strive to put murderers in jail, right?
 
2009-05-27 12:35:21 PM  
Bruce Campbell vs Army of Farkness: GayBlack Americans are not discriminated against. They have the same marital right as straightwhite Americans . . . a gayblack man can marry a woman of the same race of his choice, same as a straightwhite man.

FTF how you would have been fifty years ago.
 
2009-05-27 12:35:25 PM  
fudgefactor7: Is anyone else distrubed that the totals on that chart exceed 100%?

I suspect there was a bit of rounding done so as not to confuse the folks in the left half of the graph.
 
2009-05-27 12:35:36 PM  
Nemo's Brother: This is no different than the Holocaust. Perez Hilton is the Anne Frank of our generation!

Congratulations!!!! If there is a hell, you just earned your ticket.

/if it's reincarnation, expect to comeback as a lower intestinal parasite.
 
2009-05-27 12:35:44 PM  
fudgefactor7: Is anyone else distrubed that the totals on that chart exceed 100%?

Uh...wat?
 
2009-05-27 12:35:47 PM  
karmachameleon: This may be interesting, but it's also irrelevant. I'm sure there was a time when a majority of people also opposed mixed-race marriage. That's why our constitution is designed to make sure that the minority is never oppressed by the majority - and that's why frowning on gay marriage is wrong. It's bigotry, plain and simple, period. And the bigots WILL end up on the wrong side of history...again.


History has shown that in order for the minority to get support from the masses that a great leader must take up the cause for the oppressed. A leader that can create empathy and to inspire some of the majority. Not a one that alienates and offends. Here is my point:

blog.kexp.org

OR

www.tvfanatic.com
 
2009-05-27 12:35:59 PM  
fudgefactor7: CrankMyBlueSax: This is no surprise. A majority of Americans believe in a magical sky wizard, roughly half of Americans voted for W, twice. The following graph clearly demonstrates a characteristic of half of Americans.



...

Is anyone else distrubed that the totals on that chart exceed 100%?


I'll be damned. I added it up and got 100.2. Disturbing indeed. I blame it on gay atheist fetus eating liberals.
 
2009-05-27 12:35:59 PM  
Carth: Unrelated but do you think we'll have a gay president or an openly atheist president first?

It is rumored that James Buchanan was gay, so maybe.
 
2009-05-27 12:36:11 PM  
outofsync: In the end it shouldnt matter, Obama being for or against it should be a null point, it should be a state by state decision, the Fed should have no stake in the matter

Even if it's legal on the state level, it will never be recognized on a federal level as legal unless there's a federal law allowing it. States can do what they want (like legalizing medical marijuana) but if the feds want to step in and stop it, they're well within their rights.
 
2009-05-27 12:36:14 PM  
Theaetetus: cchris_39: Jack Johnson was marrying white women in the early 1900's. As far as I can tell, interracial marriage was never illegal.

Just a quick question before I decide whether to waste time responding... Are you retarded?


I guess so - I thought he had 2 or 3 white wives. Did I miss something?
 
2009-05-27 12:36:38 PM  
EsteeFlwrPot: Theaetetus: Nope. Hence why you don't understand what the debate is about.

How is marriage not religious?


You said "marriage is a religious concoction". That's blatantly false, and shows your lack of understanding of more than two thousand years of history.

You have a ceremony with a religious figure bringing you together in "holy matrimony wedlock."

FTFY. Frequently, they also say "by the power vested in me by the state of _____" - that's what makes you married.

But, nonetheless, as I've said, you've spouted this "opinion" in multiple threads repeatedly. Those threads have also discussed the history of marriage - "council of Trent" ring any bells?

If you can't be bothered to read any one of multiple threads, you probably shouldn't be posting this bullshiat repeatedly in them.
 
2009-05-27 12:36:48 PM  
Just like Adolph Hitler, the majority of Nazis believed in exterminating Jewish people in concentration camps. What's your point, Subby?
 
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