Buffalo77: Generation D, your whole premise is wrong.

Marriage is a religious notion. "Do you that this woman, so help you god", get it. Civil unions are not. When a man and woman are "married" by a Justice of Peace, it is a Civil union.

Civil unions confer the same rights and responsibilities as marriage with out the religious duties and responsibilities.

But this isn't what this is about. What this is about is trying to secularize religion and force gay acceptance on 100% of the American public despite what people beliefs are.


Gay Advocates couch it as a civil rights issue but it really isn't because a number of states have civil unions which if its a civil rights issue is all they need.

This is about marginalnizing a large segment of the American public because of the beliefs and forcing them to believe as you believe, which of course is anti american

Your wharrgarble, it is showing.

/put it away, man

WaltzingMathilda: Didn't a majority of Americans oppose emancipation for slaves? Or the right of women to vote?

Not when they passed. Nice try.

Asking old, religious heterosexuals their opinion about same-sex marriage is like asking children about their opinion on brussels sprouts. It shouldn't farking matter.

EsteeFlwrPot: I don't understand what the debate is about... Marriage is a religious concoction isn't it?

Nope. Hence why you don't understand what the debate is about.

However, you've said this in a half-dozen threads now, so I'm pretty sure you do actually know, and you're just trolling.

Is there any way we could turn this into a gun thread? That would be much more enjoyable.

russsssman: hailin: Well I think protecting "the sanctity of marriage" is a damn joke in this country.

If people were REALLY serious about protecting marriage, then they would make divorce illegal. Divorce ruins marriage more than a same sex marriage ever will.

Try telling that to my dad and his first wife. The perfect marriage until he ran up to the hospital to meet her during her first child labor only to walk in to her secret lesbian lover and them telling him to leave because "They are done with him".

LMAO. Sanctimonious marriage meets treacherous biatch.

"Well, at least it was a fruit pie."

HeathenHealer: The one thing we have going for us in the US is a history of correcting social injustice (slavery, womens suffrage, civil rights) it just takes time.

You should crack open a history book and check the dates the US did those things, I assume in the American education system they don't compare when the US did things to when everyone else did.

- Slavery was already abolished in the "advanced" world when the US finally did.
- The US was one of the last "advanced" countries to allow women the vote
- Civil rights? the US had anti-black laws on the books for 100 years AFTER they eliminated Slavery before it took another round of violence to do it.


Looking at American history compared to the rest of the "advanced" world you can clearly see that the US is dragged kicking and screaming into every progressive social change, then a generation or 2 later tell the rest of the world how backwards they are.

I don't mean to attack the US, I'm just saying they are not the beacon of enlightenment and change that they always claim to be. Rather Europe and Canada tend to make the major changes and the US will follow suit once they start to look foolish and fall behind much, much poorer nations in social progress.

At least that's how it used to be.. Looking at the international rankings in pretty much every category I'm shocked to see how badly the US is sliding. I remember when they led the developed world (I'm not that old) now all I hear is "well we are better than China or Russia.." wow, way to raise the bar guys

Obama has always opposed gay marriage...where do the conservatards get this stuff.

jst3p:

A marriage is, among other things, a legal contract with existing framework in our legal system. Change to allow for two same sex parties to participate is simple. Making it a contract between three or more brings up issues that will take longer to figure out. In theory you are correct. In application legalizing gay marriage only requires the stroke of a pen. Polygamy requires an entire new framework to be built.

well, if all that's holding us back is the lack of existence of a form, then we should get on this. There are plenty of sect-members that would very much like to see this legalized. I'm pretty sure they already have adapted forms created too.

Tatsuhiko: I've yet to find any scripture against gay sex or having anything to do with gay relations other than that whole "Sodomite" thing (which could actually be either gender, if you think about it).

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Thrashersk: Tatsuhiko: I've yet to find any scripture against gay sex or having anything to do with gay relations other than that whole "Sodomite" thing (which could actually be either gender, if you think about it).

I think it's from the whole don't waste your seed part. While looking for that part I found this^.

It looks like the bible is against MALE homosexuality because

For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

sounds like bestiality is the "contrary to nature" and makes no mention of women on women being anything other than a natural relation.

Because even God knows lesbian sex is awesome.

undefgeek: DamnYankees: What the frak is up with this:

40% of people want gay sex to be illegal??

You have to wonder if the "opposed to sex with turtles" number is any higher.

It's sea turtle mating season here in Florida, so it's hard to say.

ha ha guy: WaltzingMathilda: Didn't a majority of Americans oppose emancipation for slaves? Or the right of women to vote?

Not when they passed. Nice try.

No, but the majority of Americans were opposed to anti-segregation, and were opposed to interracial marriage.

letrole: mofomisfit: letrole: Stopheles: Strangely, legalizing interracial marriage did not destroy the very institution of marriage, as was feared at the time.

Not true. Thanks for playing the revisionist game.
It was miscegenation that was feared.
That is the best/worst attempt to...I don't even know...obfuscate the issue I've ever seen.
/miscenegation (correct spelling) is interracial marriage


miscegenation is the correct spelling.

/rotsky, is that you?

You're correct on that narrow point. Funny how you didn't address anything else I've said.

/and by funny i mean "mind numbingly predictable"

Khellendros: /see, I can be smug and condescending, too.

Well done.

However, I still think opposition to gay marriage is stupid.

It's not an issue of "friendly". It's just the inevitable generational gap. We may have to wait a few years for the old traditionslists to just die off, but it's coming pretty soon.

I don't think so. I have a liberal friend who says this all the time, but I keep reminding him that conservatives breed, same as anybody, and they raise their kids with their values, same as anybody. When I told him that my workplace was mostly conservatives, he said 'they are all older though, right?' I had to tell him, no, they are mostly young. I enjoy giving him nightmares. :)

CrankMyBlueSax: This is no surprise. A majority of Americans believe in a magical sky wizard, roughly half of Americans voted for W, twice. The following graph clearly demonstrates a characteristic of half of Americans.



Often it is unfortunate, and extremely inconvenient that we have to drag stupidity along for the ride. However, our compassion compels us to do so. Plus, the world needs ditch diggers.

Maybe one day we will have a President who isn't retarded. By your own definition, Obama is a mouth breather because he:
1. Believes in a "sky wizard".
2. Opposes gay marriage.

CrankMyBlueSax: russsssman: hailin: Well I think protecting "the sanctity of marriage" is a damn joke in this country.

If people were REALLY serious about protecting marriage, then they would make divorce illegal. Divorce ruins marriage more than a same sex marriage ever will.

Try telling that to my dad and his first wife. The perfect marriage until he ran up to the hospital to meet her during her first child labor only to walk in to her secret lesbian lover and them telling him to leave because "They are done with him".

LMAO. Sanctimonious marriage meets treacherous biatch.

Exactly.. Good vs. Evil.

letrole: Homosexuality is a learned behaviour. The instinct for sex involves thrusting and groping and kissing and so forth. If you get horny at the sight of a naked man, or if you get horny at the sight of a naked woman, it is only because you have been taught to make that association.

So is being a douche bag trolling the clubs downtown looking for an easy lay. But we don't make laws against that either.

And I dunno about it being a learned behaviour, but even if it were I think it's a product of years of experiences, not just some momentary get up and decide your gay thing. If you finally realize you're gay chances are it's something that was brewing in your brain for a long time.

I just don't get why it upsets people so much. I'm not gay, but I really just don't care about them either. Whereas some people I know use any chance they get to slur and insult gays. Just let it go already.

Spanky_McFarksalot: 3_Butt_Cheeks: Maybe if Obama had supported it in the first place

He said he's against it. Did he say it just to get votes or does he truly believe it should be between a chick and dude?

Votes.

Mustang Driver: Actually they were right about interracial marriage. Look at what we got in the White House...

If you were a real person, and not some stupid internet troll, I'd punch you right in your ignorant, bigoted face.

DIAF

CrankMyBlueSax: Khellendros: /see, I can be smug and condescending, too.

Well done.

However, I still think opposition to gay marriage is stupid.

And I agree COMPLETELY on that point.

elchip: Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

God hates liars.

Animation: It's not an issue of "friendly". It's just the inevitable generational gap. We may have to wait a few years for the old traditionslists to just die off, but it's coming pretty soon.

I don't think so. I have a liberal friend who says this all the time, but I keep reminding him that conservatives breed, same as anybody, and they raise their kids with their values, same as anybody. When I told him that my workplace was mostly conservatives, he said 'they are all older though, right?' I had to tell him, no, they are mostly young. I enjoy giving him nightmares. :)

But remember, California has about 10 liberals in the entire state and they don't breed half as quickly as the liberal black/hispanics in the state. It was those segments that kept gay marriage illegal.

Free Radical: This will lead to the outlawing of Divorce.

I realize you're being sarcastic but considering how many outspoken conservatives like Gingrich dumbed their wives to "upgrade" that's never gonna happen.

Nemo's Brother:
Maybe one day we will have a President who isn't retarded. By your own definition, Obama is a mouth breather because he:
1. Believes in a "sky wizard".
2. Opposes gay marriage.

Unrelated but do you think we'll have a gay president or an openly atheist president first?

Ox: HeathenHealer: The one thing we have going for us in the US is a history of correcting social injustice (slavery, womens suffrage, civil rights) it just takes time.

You should crack open a history book and check the dates the US did those things, I assume in the American education system they don't compare when the US did things to when everyone else did.

- Slavery was already abolished in the "advanced" world when the US finally did.
- The US was one of the last "advanced" countries to allow women the vote
- Civil rights? the US had anti-black laws on the books for 100 years AFTER they eliminated Slavery before it took another round of violence to do it.


Looking at American history compared to the rest of the "advanced" world you can clearly see that the US is dragged kicking and screaming into every progressive social change, then a generation or 2 later tell the rest of the world how backwards they are.

I don't mean to attack the US, I'm just saying they are not the beacon of enlightenment and change that they always claim to be. Rather Europe and Canada tend to make the major changes and the US will follow suit once they start to look foolish and fall behind much, much poorer nations in social progress.

At least that's how it used to be.. Looking at the international rankings in pretty much every category I'm shocked to see how badly the US is sliding. I remember when they led the developed world (I'm not that old) now all I hear is "well we are better than China or Russia.." wow, way to raise the bar guys

Outstanding points. I guess all I can say is that at least we eventually get it right!

Ant: DamnYankees: What the frak is up with this:



40% of people want gay sex to be illegal??

40% of people are stupid, and think their personal preferences should be enforced by law

THIS...for christ sakes...THIS!!

Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it should be illegal.

If you mix peanut butter with peanut butter does it make a Reese's Cup?

Jack Johnson was marrying white women in the early 1900's. As far as I can tell, interracial marriage was never illegal.

ptelg:

What I want to know is what happened in 1985?

I had the same question myself. That jumped off the graph.

My guess is that it was probably a reaction to the relatively new disease called AIDS; or as some in the early 80's called it, the "gay plague".

Animation: I don't think so. I have a liberal friend who says this all the time, but I keep reminding him that conservatives breed, same as anybody, and they raise their kids with their values, same as anybody. When I told him that my workplace was mostly conservatives, he said 'they are all older though, right?' I had to tell him, no, they are mostly young. I enjoy giving him nightmares. :)

elchip: Tatsuhiko: I've yet to find any scripture against gay sex or having anything to do with gay relations other than that whole "Sodomite" thing (which could actually be either gender, if you think about it).

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

This is the same book that forbids eating shrimp or sitting in the same chair a woman on her period has sat in.

One advantage to having Obama in the WH is that, unlike Bush, when public opinion swings to favor gay marriage Obama's opinion will swing with it.

It won't be swinging anytime soon. Not while Obama is around. Much of his base hates gay people, anyway. Yes, they do. Most people always look the other way on how blacks feel about gays, but it is still there. Gays comparing their situation to blacks doesn't help much, either.

Go ahead and put gay marriage on a ballot next year. Do it in 2012. It loses. Americans generally don't appreciate having GAY shoved into their face and demands being made by people with the attitude showed by many around here.

Best solution is civil unions. Most people will probably support that now. If that's not good enough for you, you are just looking for forced approval from society. Rights and family don't really matter to you. You just want everyone to be forced to nod their head and applaud.

Ant: DamnYankees: What the frak is up with this:



40% of people want gay sex to be illegal??

40% of people are stupid, and think their personal preferences should be enforced by law

If they really wanted to, most states could go after anyone having sex that isn't vaginal, because any hole that's not the pussay is considered sodomy. Even straight blowjobs are technically illegal in the majority of places.

Also, I'm not against gay marriage, but comparing this struggle to civil rights is discounting the latter in a huge way. Are gays having fire hoses turned on them? Do they have to use separate bathrooms or sit somewhere assigned on a bus? Is it legal to kick them out of a restaurant because you just don't like their kind? I'm not saying there isn't bigotry and hate, it's just not state sponsored. You talk to anyone who went through the civil rights movement (white or black) and the idea of comparing this struggle to theirs usually does nothing more than sicken them.

apeman12: How is the matter of marriage anybody's business except the two people getting married? I find theentire discussion about legalizing gay marriage comepletely stupid. It's got nothing to do with the rest of society. At all. Fark off and mind your own damn business.

God doesn't do surgical strikes. If he's going to smite some gays, you can bet your (sore) ass there's going to be quite a bit of collateral damage. This is why gay marriage should be illegal.

Gwendolyn: treesloth: Is there any way we could turn this into a gun thread? That would be much more enjoyable.



Here ya go.

She's cute.

Theaetetus: Nope. Hence why you don't understand what the debate is about.

How is marriage not religious? You have a ceremony with a religious figure bringing you together in "holy matrimony." If that isn't religious then I don't know what is. I know couples go to court to get their marriage license but I don't think it should be called that, it should be a license for a civil union. There is a mix of church and state in this issue and that is the problem.

If the majority of Ameritards are against gay marriage ... well, that's just another reason to be FOR it.

/Ameritards elected Bush ......... twice
//nuf said

Fart_Machine: Free Radical: This will lead to the outlawing of Divorce.

I realize you're being sarcastic but considering how many outspoken conservatives like Gingrich dumbed their wives to "upgrade" that's never gonna happen.

Yup, just another example of the intolerance of religious types.

The world would be a better place if religion did not exist.

Carth: Unrelated but do you think we'll have a gay president or an openly atheist president first?

Atheist. There are lots of closeted atheists of both parties, but everyone knows all of the closeted gays vote Republican.

/Cheap shot, too easy to pass up

tombotia: letrole: Homosexuality is a learned behaviour. The instinct for sex involves thrusting and groping and kissing and so forth. If you get horny at the sight of a naked man, or if you get horny at the sight of a naked woman, it is only because you have been taught to make that association.

So is being a douche bag trolling the clubs downtown looking for an easy lay. But we don't make laws against that either.

And I dunno about it being a learned behaviour, but even if it were I think it's a product of years of experiences, not just some momentary get up and decide your gay thing. If you finally realize you're gay chances are it's something that was brewing in your brain for a long time.

I just don't get why it upsets people so much. I'm not gay, but I really just don't care about them either. Whereas some people I know use any chance they get to slur and insult gays. Just let it go already.

Some people don't just use words... (new window)

/not that I'm insinuating anything about you and your friends, I've just wanted to post this article the last few days

Why all the interest in the President's position on Gay Marriage? What is really important is that Miss California is opposed to GM.

bacccc: If the majority of Ameritards are against gay marriage ... well, that's just another reason to be FOR it.

/Ameritards elected Bush ......... twice
//nuf said

School's out for Summer!
School's out forever!