If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Times)   ACLU has gotten its panties in a bind over a cross erected in 1934, in the desert, to honor WWI vets, who now are all dead   (washingtontimes.com) divider line 396
    More: Asinine  
•       •       •

16395 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2009 at 10:33 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



396 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2009-05-26 05:05:37 PM
Oh for pete's sake, isn't there anything better for the ACLU to be chasing? They really need to STFU.
 
2009-05-26 05:06:39 PM
Stamping religion out of government is a full time job.
 
2009-05-26 05:09:14 PM
This is stupid, it's about honouring veterans of other faiths. Simple solution? Put up whatever sign next to the cross representing the other faiths that fought and died. Or will that just lead to more people complaining that Christianity is under attack?
 
2009-05-26 05:09:32 PM
It was WHARRGARBL yesterday. It's still WHARRGARBL today.
 
2009-05-26 05:10:24 PM
You're right, they really should be defending the Joos:

Link (new window)

Oops, they weren't. They were defending some nazis and their right to free speech. Consistency is bad for republicans, isn't it?
 
2009-05-26 05:16:26 PM
Slaxl: This is stupid, it's about honouring veterans of other faiths. Simple solution? Put up whatever sign next to the cross representing the other faiths that fought and died. Or will that just lead to more people complaining that Christianity is under attack?

No, it's about the vets that were there in 1934 that put it up as part of their therapy.
 
2009-05-26 05:21:28 PM
dj_bigbird: Slaxl: This is stupid, it's about honouring veterans of other faiths. Simple solution? Put up whatever sign next to the cross representing the other faiths that fought and died. Or will that just lead to more people complaining that Christianity is under attack?

No, it's about the vets that were there in 1934 that put it up as part of their therapy.


That's true, and that's why I absolutely don't think it should be taken down, or changed in anyway, but people get their panties in a twist over things all the time and it would be less shameful to argue for equal representation, than to argue that it should be removed.

Personally I don't think anything should be done about it, but people like to complain and whine, so throwing them a bone to silence them is easier than arguing.
 
2009-05-26 05:26:47 PM
It's been there since 1934. Sure, it's been updated with maintenance and so forth, but surely there is some sort of estoppel that could operate here. I'm just not getting why this is a big deal.
 
2009-05-26 05:27:11 PM
That's some pretty flimsy symbolism there.
 
2009-05-26 05:28:27 PM
This kind of crap is why I don't give the ACLU money, despite their other good works. What they don't seem to get is that most religious, when presented with a choice between atheist government and Sarah Palin, with choose Palin every time. I'd rather have something pretty darn close to what we have now than risk a Paliban.
 
2009-05-26 07:36:34 PM
Nabb1: surely there is some sort of estoppel that could operate here.

LOL Whut? I'm from the South but estoppel isn't in my vocabulary.

Love sepuku2
 
2009-05-26 07:43:29 PM
Hmmpf!
 
2009-05-26 07:59:01 PM
Jeez, can't you find something more relevant to worry about? Sometimes you have to pick your battles to achieve a larger goal -- obviously someone over there hasn't gotten that memo and it serves to the detriment of the causes that they pursue that are actually relevant because silly cases like this make it easy for close-minded jerks to just dismiss the whole organization and anything it does with a wave.
 
2009-05-26 08:10:42 PM
pete and repeat walk into a bar.
 
2009-05-26 08:11:22 PM
never mind.
 
2009-05-26 08:31:46 PM
006andahalf: Jeez, can't you find something more relevant to worry about? Sometimes you have to pick your battles to achieve a larger goal -- obviously someone over there hasn't gotten that memo and it serves to the detriment of the causes that they pursue that are actually relevant because silly cases like this make it easy for close-minded jerks to just dismiss the whole organization and anything it does with a wave.

"Some positions are untenable, if only because its supporters are so revolting"
 
2009-05-26 08:34:01 PM
If only there were some reasonable solution (^) to all of this...
 
2009-05-26 08:39:40 PM
From TFA: "If the plaintiff is so offended that he might possibly come across this cross someday, will the plaintiff be offended when he drives by Arlington Cemetery?" Mr. Sims asked.

Arlington cemetery doesn't only have crosses in it, and hasn't for a long time.

Furthermore, the crosses on graves are for individual soldiers, NOT for the sum total of them. Any individual soldier has a choice of markers.

Not to say that this big cross desperately needs gone (or argue the other way either yet) but false analogy is false. A big cross supposed to represent a large group of people is not the same thing as a bunch of crosses all representing individual cross-honoring people.

Meanwhile, I do 100% feel that homemade roadside death memorials need to be GONE and it has nothing to do with their containing religious imagery or not. Keep that in the cemetery or on your own memorial property where it belongs, not trashing up the roads.

I do wonder who has trashed the veterans' cross in the past though. I'd be more likely to suspect the usual vandalistic types than anyone with a "this is not constitutional" thought-out agenda.
 
2009-05-26 08:43:46 PM
Radioactive Ass: If only there were some reasonable solution (^) to all of this...

Actually I notice from TFA it says:
"The cross was first erected in 1934 in what is now the federally protected Mojave Desert..."

which makes me wonder if the thing was originally on private land, before the park was there? If so, extra reason to just exempt that little area out of the park? I guess since they didn't, they'd have to do a sale now.

Sounds like a group of private guys put up a cross on private land (at the time) and then the problem came afterwards.
 
2009-05-26 09:11:05 PM
History: Offensive. Change it.
 
2009-05-26 09:14:41 PM
The ACLU is a bunch of cowards. Why didn't they take on these alleged vets when they were still alive...and under 85 years old? Huh? The ACLU is afraid of old people.
 
2009-05-26 10:19:45 PM
Sometimes you really need to pick your battles better.
 
2009-05-26 10:23:03 PM
Nabb1: It's been there since 1934. Sure, it's been updated with maintenance and so forth, but surely there is some sort of estoppel that could operate here. I'm just not getting why this is a big deal.

Estoppel against who? The government? I don't thin constitutional issues are subject to SOL's, especially since the existence of a symbol is not an event which occurs at a single moment, but is an ongoing violation.
 
2009-05-26 10:35:56 PM
Wait a sec. I thought there was still one alive...
 
2009-05-26 10:35:57 PM
good. I hope the ACLU wins and the cross gets demolished.
 
2009-05-26 10:37:13 PM
It's this type of shiat that caused me to cancel my ACLU membership years ago.

If we go after everything that offends someone, we will end up going after everything, no exceptions. There's always some douche who will be offended by something.

Hey, ACLU, how about paying attention to the entire Constitution, especially that inconvenient 2nd Amendment that you hate so much.
 
2009-05-26 10:38:08 PM
OgreMagi: Hey, ACLU, how about paying attention to the entire Constitution, especially that inconvenient 2nd Amendment that you hate so much.

The ACLU is devoted to protecting civil liberties, not the Bill of Rights.
 
2009-05-26 10:38:17 PM
I_C_Weener: The ACLU is a bunch of cowards. Why didn't they take on these alleged vets when they were still alive...and under 85 years old? Huh? The ACLU is afraid of old people.

We have exactly one WW1 left alive. One.
 
2009-05-26 10:38:23 PM
dj_bigbird: Oh for pete's sake, isn't there anything better for the ACLU to be chasing? They really need to STFU.

I for one would prefer for them to fight Blue Laws. Your God can't stop me from buying beer on the Sabbath.
 
2009-05-26 10:38:30 PM
Religious symbol on federal land. It needs to be moved somewhere else, someone will jump at the chance to host it on private land.
 
2009-05-26 10:39:08 PM
I can't wait until the ACLU gets crushed on this one.
 
2009-05-26 10:39:12 PM
DamnYankees: OgreMagi: Hey, ACLU, how about paying attention to the entire Constitution, especially that inconvenient 2nd Amendment that you hate so much.

The ACLU is devoted to protecting civil liberties, not the Bill of Rights.


The right to arms is a civil liberty.
 
2009-05-26 10:40:12 PM
The ACLU is the group that does the bidding of the porch monkeys , wetbacks and zipper heads right?

Seriously, when was the last time the ACLU did anything of value for whitey?
 
2009-05-26 10:40:48 PM
Jakevol2: good. I hope the ACLU wins and the cross gets demolished.

THIS. Public land is public land, and religious symbolism is offensive to every American.

Radioactive Ass: If only there were some reasonable solution (^) to all of this...

How does selling the land help anything? You just reward the religious wingnuts. The Sarah Palins will start planting crosses on whatever they like and buying everything up on the cheap. That's absurd.
 
2009-05-26 10:42:03 PM
We are not all Christians... Why cross? I would definitely mind if cross was erected in honor of my grandpa.
 
2009-05-26 10:42:03 PM
Would this be considered an ACLU wedgie?
upload.wikimedia.org
(hot like summer)
 
2009-05-26 10:42:19 PM
OgreMagi: Hey, ACLU, how about paying attention to the entire Constitution, especially that inconvenient 2nd Amendment that you hate so much.

They respect the 2nd Amendment. However, just like our administration, there are limits on freedom. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater and you shouldn't be allowed to have a gun when the city or state or feds don't think it's necessary. That's reasonable.
 
2009-05-26 10:43:22 PM
FTA: But the civil liberties group says the cross is offensive to Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and other non-Christian veterans.

Name them! Just one name. I'll bet a week's salary no one will come forward. Why? Because they don't exist.

I defy ANY veteran of ANY faith would feel this way about fellow combat veterans. And if it had been a Star of David, a Crescent, a Buddha, or even the infamous FSM, I doubt ANY Christian veteran would bemoan their choice of symbolism. That is part of why they fought in the first place and EVERY veteran knows that in his/her heart.

ACLU gets a giant FAIL on this one.
 
2009-05-26 10:43:45 PM
this is the kind of religious bigotry that many farkers and ALL dailykooks engage in every damn day!!!!

and you people are now SHOCKED????

please....

A BIGOT IS A BIGOT IS A BIGOT!!!!

and this story is all about bigotry...
 
2009-05-26 10:43:53 PM
I_Like_Pie: Would this be considered an ACLU wedgie?

(hot like summer)


Give them due time. Those should be removed and replaced. It's time for the nation to wake up and realize that religious freedom means something.
 
2009-05-26 10:43:59 PM
I'm a big believer in the separation of church and state and all, but this just seems like much ado about nothing.
 
2009-05-26 10:45:30 PM
buk110: The ACLU is the group that does the bidding of the porch monkeys , wetbacks and zipper heads right?

Seriously, when was the last time the ACLU did anything of value for whitey?


They defended the pederast, drug addict, liar Rush Limbaugh.
 
2009-05-26 10:45:50 PM
Cry about somthing important you self inflated asshat. and stfu
 
2009-05-26 10:46:57 PM
Marcus Aurelius: Stamping religion out of government is a full time job.

And, not to sidetrack, but did the Moonies pay extra this month or something?
 
2009-05-26 10:47:33 PM
The living breathing embodiment of why some folk who would normally say they're moderate or middle of the road will vote with conservatives. It's because of ridiculous shiat like this.

There's very much the notion of "you give them an inch and they'll take a mile" at work. The inch? Not a big deal...but then it emboldens some to go after things that only a small minority want. And apparently if you supported the inch, you're expected to support the mile as well.

I just wish politics in this country wasn't an endless tug of war between the two extremes. More folk ought to be able to stand in the middle and say "yeah, that's reasonable" and not be flamed when they say "yeah, but that next thing you want now...not so much".

As for this cross, I love how the ACLU had to dig up a retired National Parks worker as the plaintiff. What, they couldn't find an actual Jewish or Muslim veteran who was actually offended? I suspect if the plaintiff were an actual veteran the article might have mentioned it so it's omission seems to speak for itself.

The ACLU has done some good things in the past but anymore, they're right up there with labor unions as "institutions seeking to justify their continued existence".
 
2009-05-26 10:48:01 PM
This one has got potential.
 
2009-05-26 10:48:18 PM
pauly1620: FTA: But the civil liberties group says the cross is offensive to Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and other non-Christian veterans.

Name them! Just one name. I'll bet a week's salary no one will come forward. Why? Because they don't exist.

I defy ANY veteran of ANY faith would feel this way about fellow combat veterans. And if it had been a Star of David, a Crescent, a Buddha, or even the infamous FSM, I doubt ANY Christian veteran would bemoan their choice of symbolism. That is part of why they fought in the first place and EVERY veteran knows that in his/her heart.

ACLU gets a giant FAIL on this one.


MOST Christian veterans would cry up a storm if the FSM was the symbol. You know this is the truth. Why must you lie?
 
2009-05-26 10:48:30 PM
Nothing scares the ACLU morRustem: Religious symbol on federal land. It needs to be moved somewhere else, someone will jump at the chance to host it on private land.

Ever been to a courtroom? Were you aware that quite a few of them post the 10 commandments in the building? Did you know they also make you swear upon a bible?

There really isn't much of a separation of church and state in our country. Either way, this is a symbol of respect for those that died fighting for our freedoms, not a religious advertisement.

I am against organized religion, but this doesn't offend me in the slightest. These men that died were better men than you or I will ever be, and they deserve this simple symbol of respect, albeit on public property.
 
2009-05-26 10:48:45 PM
ghare: buk110: The ACLU is the group that does the bidding of the porch monkeys , wetbacks and zipper heads right?

Seriously, when was the last time the ACLU did anything of value for whitey?

They defended the pederast, drug addict, liar Rush Limbaugh.


Ok, so again, when the last time the ACLU did anything of value?
 
2009-05-26 10:48:58 PM
Crush every cross. Your religion is a plague.
 
Displayed 50 of 396 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report