Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   The war heroes you won't hear celebrated on Memorial Day - the 1,350 civilian contractors killed in Iraq and Afghanistan and 29,000 who have been injured there fighting for America and freedom   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 301
    More: Hero  
•       •       •

4188 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2009 at 10:01 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



301 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2009-05-25 11:02:53 PM  
Bohemian: Then there is the whole lack of accountability and lack of discipline thing.

Plausible denialability is a beautiful thing.
 
2009-05-25 11:04:50 PM  
Talon: cameroncrazy1984: 2wolves: No. They were there for a paycheck.

Exactly. We don't honor mercenaries.

Because every single contractor over there is in a private military force. There are no computer scientists, engineers, health care providers, or any other contractor of any sort over there acting as civilian support to our armed forces.


I remember when a civilian employee who ran the gym at Camp Victory got killed by a mortar.

I guess she was an eeevil mercenary.
 
2009-05-25 11:06:34 PM  
wingnutx: I guess she was an eeevil mercenary.

/facepalm
 
2009-05-25 11:07:06 PM  
2wolves: No. They were there for a paycheck.

How many soldiers are working pro bono?
 
2009-05-25 11:07:32 PM  
I was going to write something to the effect that not all contractors are guns for hire, but it would not matter. The WHARGGRABL is very high in this thread. If you think for one moment that even half of the men and women over there joined because they are patriotic then you are at best delusional, at worst a complete and total farking idiot. Most join, not for money but for adventure (My case), for possible fame, or even for the possibility to legally kill another human being. Are some of the contractors over there parasites, you had better believe it. Are some of them just people who were having a hard time finding work here in the States and were attracted to all the money, you bet your ass they were. America has very few HEROES now a days. Nothing is done because it is the right thing to do, it is ALL for fracking profit, from the soldier right on down to the barista at freaking Starbucks. But that is okay, you keep bashing the men and women who saw there chance to provide for their kids and families, that is your right, the right that your PAID military has given to you. But don't any of you a#@holes sit behind your keyboards and say that if you had the skills you would not be first in line for the next plane over. God bless America
 
2009-05-25 11:09:20 PM  
randomstranger:

How many soldiers are working pro bono?


A lot of soldiers like U2.

Does that count?
 
2009-05-25 11:10:15 PM  
I know that I'm late to the party, and I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my two cents:

I worked with some of these private "military" contractors. Custer Battles, LLC. I was more afraid of them than I was of the "bad guys." They were a bunch of thugs with guns. They had no rules and were accountable to no one. We had absolutely no control over what they did. They loved to start shiat and leave us uniforms to deal with it.

/Rant off
//They were the first contractor sued for fraud Wiki (new window)
///Hope that those in charge burn in Hell
 
2009-05-25 11:11:46 PM  
'Civilian contractors' covers a lot of ground besides the evil Blackwater. The bulk of them never get near firearms.

Besides, contract armies were the gold standard of fighting men through the 1700's. It was assumed that the common man was too ignorant to pick up (and too broke to own) arms and be trained properly for battle. I wonder just how rotten it would have been not to send your own kids to war, but instead have guys eager for a paycheck to go and fight.

/the more you know...asshats
 
hej
2009-05-25 11:13:09 PM  
2wolves: No. They were there for a paycheck.

A rather large (and AFAIK tax-free) check.
 
2009-05-25 11:14:35 PM  
The mere fact that we're even using mercenaries in Iraq is disgusting. Now you want us to honor them on the day we use to honor our actual soldiers, subby?

Where's that .gif of Jon Stewart saying "fark you"? I really need it right now.
 
2009-05-25 11:16:14 PM  
I noticed the article nor the commenters are mentioning Nick Berg, who was that communications contractor that was told multiple times to GTFO of Iraq by the American military, didn't listen, and ended up on Iraq's Funniest Beheading Videos.

Because I'm wondering if that's who we're talking about in this thread.
 
2009-05-25 11:16:40 PM  
DeltaXi65: Many of these independent contractors who were killed weren't mercenaries. They had nothing to do with combat operations - they drove the trucks, built the bases, etc.

They took the job because it paid a premium. It paid a premium because of the level of risk involved. They knew what they were getting into.
 
2009-05-25 11:17:08 PM  
Ghastly: So what sort of freedoms do Americans now have that they didn't before these wars took place?

/would also like to know
 
2009-05-25 11:17:22 PM  
They're not the chaotic good of the American armed forces, they're the chaotic neutral of the gold-obsessed mercenaries, only in it for themselves.
 
2009-05-25 11:19:15 PM  
MattyFridays: I noticed the article nor the commenters are mentioning Nick Berg, who was that communications contractor that was told multiple times to GTFO of Iraq by the American military, didn't listen, and ended up on Iraq's Funniest Beheading Videos.

Because I'm wondering if that's who we're talking about in this thread.


One example of blowback from Abu Ghraib. Although I'm sure the f*ckers who killed him would've found some other reason to justify it.
 
2009-05-25 11:19:32 PM  
HeartBurnKid: The mere fact that we're even using mercenaries in Iraq is disgusting. Now you want us to honor them on the day we use to honor our actual soldiers, subby?


so one employer is better than another?

please.
 
2009-05-25 11:20:08 PM  
Ghastly: So what sort of freedoms do Americans now have that they didn't before these wars took place?

The freedom to tap their fellow countrymen's phone lines, to keep records of who checks out what library books, to know who gambled how much in Vegas, to torture the fark out of people. We have lots of new freedoms now.
 
2009-05-25 11:20:13 PM  
You guys are morons.

Contractors aren't all security forces.
I guess you hate doctors,nurses, cooks, engineers, teachers, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, and so on.

Wait, I forget ... this is Fark Francisco. Keep on loving everything left and lubing your shaft to buttfuk your life partner.
 
2009-05-25 11:21:06 PM  
blogs.chron.com
 
2009-05-25 11:21:21 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: 2wolves: No. They were there for a paycheck.

Exactly. We don't honor mercenaries.


Why not? They're still there, and still doing a good job. Why does it matter whether or not they get more money than soldiers who only get inferior meals and lower-grade armor?

Also, there needs to be a distinction between the soldier-of-fortune types, and the civilian contractors who are engaged in non-military activities that involve the OTHER reasons we're over in Iraq: To wit, helping them build that democracy we pushed so hard on them. Hard to fault the guys/gals over there helping the Iraqis do things like, you know, build roads and teach schools.
 
2009-05-25 11:21:43 PM  
joethebastard: Ghastly: So what sort of freedoms do Americans now have that they didn't before these wars took place?

/would also like to know


Not that I agree with the war, but you don't need to have more freedoms now if they are defending the ones we have.

But the Bush Administration was a far bigger threat to my personal rights and freedoms than some brown people half way across the globe.
 
2009-05-25 11:22:31 PM  
What did the US army do before there were contractors to wipe their bums?
 
2009-05-25 11:22:34 PM  
B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but Rush said they are great. So they're great, aren't they? Didn't Rush serve in the military? He's a real heeeeero!

Dumbfarks
 
2009-05-25 11:23:01 PM  
wilbret: Keep on loving everything left and lubing your shaft to buttfuk your life partner.

you sound anxious
 
2009-05-25 11:23:38 PM  
wilbret: You guys are morons.

Contractors aren't all security forces.
I guess you hate doctors,nurses, cooks, engineers, teachers, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, and so on.


I don't see a lot of hate, just people not propping them up as "heroes" because they took a risky contract and found out why the pay was so extraordinary. What makes them heroic in your opinion?
 
2009-05-25 11:24:23 PM  
As others have mentioned, I'd like to repeat.

They are mercenaries not contractors.

I wish the media would give them the proper title.
 
2009-05-25 11:24:46 PM  
I'm sure this has been said....but there are plenty of civilian contractors in Iraq who are not "mercenaries" by any stretch of the imagination. And they are paid more while in Iraq precisely because it is dangerous. You wouldn't get many volunteers to go over and work in a combat zone if you didn't offer hazard pay.

Yes, they want to make the extra money. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. They are still providing a valuable service while they are in country.

Are they heroes? I'm sure some of them are. They aren't heroes simply by being in the country. But some of them have certainly performed heroic acts.
 
2009-05-25 11:25:00 PM  
mcwebe0: Ghastly: So what sort of freedoms do Americans now have that they didn't before these wars took place?

The freedom to tap their fellow countrymen's phone lines, to keep records of who checks out what library books, to know who gambled how much in Vegas, to torture the fark out of people. We have lots of new freedoms now.


It's too bad those things were all being done by the Bush administration before 9/11 (new window). 9/11 was the excuse, not the justification.
 
2009-05-25 11:25:13 PM  
jst3p: wilbret: You guys are morons.

Contractors aren't all security forces.
I guess you hate doctors,nurses, cooks, engineers, teachers, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, and so on.

I don't see a lot of hate, just people not propping them up as "heroes" because they took a risky contract and found out why the pay was so extraordinary. What makes them heroic in your opinion?


if they donate their salaries to war orphans or something, that might be heroic.

otherwise, if you're getting paid, if you're voluntary, stfu and gbtw.

thank you
 
2009-05-25 11:25:14 PM  
Union Carbine: bronyaur1: Mercenaries are not heroes.

Bears repeating. If you knowingly go into a combat zone with a gun making nominal wages, then you are a candidate for heroism. If you go into a combat zone making c-level wages, then you are a privateer/profiteer and what becomes of you, becomes of you. The rest of us don't care because there are ten who are willing to take your place with dollar signs in their eyes.

/I expect BEARS REPEATING in response to this!


i3.photobucket.com
 
2009-05-25 11:25:20 PM  
jst3p: Not that I agree with the war, but you don't need to have more freedoms now if they are defending the ones we have.

But the Bush Administration was a far bigger threat to my personal rights and freedoms than some brown people half way across the globe.


Agreed. If they were defending our rights, then we would definitely want to honor them for defending those rights.
 
2009-05-25 11:26:57 PM  
Skinny23: can you name me a legitimate fighting force in history??? Non conscript, and not for benefits, but for country...I can think of one maybe two...the first being the allies in WWII but not Russia. And the second, the Continental Army, now that I think of it I can come up with a few more, The CSA, for one but I think you get my point. The modern military provides its personnel with benefits, and I believe that some of the motivation to join is a cost benefit anaylsis as with any other job.

You believe wrongly.

If these contractors want to serve this country honorably they should enlist, or stay in.
 
2009-05-25 11:26:59 PM  
For everyone who is saying "but but Contractors are people like doctors and nurses and stuff!"

wow, that's a lot of nurses and communications and infrastructure guys caught up in firefights in Fallujah.
 
2009-05-25 11:29:24 PM  
real shaman: Contractors in war zones are a relatively new thing, created mostly by cut backs in military spending. The Army no longer has the manpower or equipment to provide their own food and housing and electricity.
So for all you slamming the contractors, write your congressmen and STFU. Our soldiers wouldn't have food and showers without those mercenary contractors.


Not only that but KBR provides both showers and electricity (new window) at the same time.
That's the kind of forward thinking efficiency we just don't get from the Department of Defense.
Not to mention the efficiency of importing slaves to serve the food.
/So yeah, fark the mercenaries and vultures.
 
2009-05-25 11:29:24 PM  
What makes kids with no other options than the Army a hero?
What makes Hispanics looking for citizenship by serving a hero?

The contractors are taking a bigger risk than soldiers by being there. It makes no sense to disparage them like you are doing without firsthand knowledge of WHAT they are doing.

Here's a free tip: Quit watching Jon Stewart for a while, okay? That's not really 'the news."

You are so blinded by your Hussein lust you don't think before you type.

jst3p: wilbret: You guys are morons.

Contractors aren't all security forces.
I guess you hate doctors,nurses, cooks, engineers, teachers, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, and so on.

I don't see a lot of hate, just people not propping them up as "heroes" because they took a risky contract and found out why the pay was so extraordinary. What makes them heroic in your opinion?
 
2009-05-25 11:29:54 PM  
In addition to everything else said, don't forget it's these military contractors that are responsible for Jack Bauer being in a coma FOR NOW.
 
2009-05-25 11:30:30 PM  
actually- mer·ce·nar·y (mûrs-nr)
adj.
1. Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.
2. Hired for service in a foreign army.
n. pl. mer·ce·nar·ies
1. One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling.
2. A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army.

its hard to call someone a mercenary unless you know why they are there. In this case I don't think you can generalize that all of the contractors are in Iraq and Afghanistan are there solely for the money, and in so far as they are American, they are not serving in a foreign army, so to call them mercenaries is not accurate.

That said, Memorial day is for those who served in the Military not those who served in the war, so really it doesn't matter what they are called, they/we are celebrated on Labor Day, as someone pointed out earlier..
 
2009-05-25 11:32:02 PM  
Holy fark.

It's threads like this that make me ashamed of even having a fark handle.
 
2009-05-25 11:32:06 PM  
joethebastard: jst3p: Not that I agree with the war, but you don't need to have more freedoms now if they are defending the ones we have.

But the Bush Administration was a far bigger threat to my personal rights and freedoms than some brown people half way across the globe.

Agreed. If they were defending our rights, then we would definitely want to honor them for defending those rights.


I agree that they aren't defending our rights, but I believe the enlisted men and women should be respected and honored.

I was mostly pointing out the flawed logic in the original question though.
 
2009-05-25 11:33:08 PM  
These are NOT heroes.
 
2009-05-25 11:33:52 PM  
STFU? Soldiers are also volunteers. They get paid. What makes them a hero?

FYI, my brother is a major with 3 tours under his belt. I am in a military family with friends serving overseas now.

My father in law is a retired major that is a contractor. Formerly was in small arms, then non-lethal weapons. I fail to see how he is a mercenary when his job is develop and train soldiers how to use weapons.

When a pickup truck full of contractors is blown up doing their job to assist our HERO soldiers, explain to me how those men and women are anything less than heroes, too?
 
2009-05-25 11:33:53 PM  
Army people HAVE to serve.

You gotta wonder about people who CHOOSE to go to Iraq though.
 
2009-05-25 11:33:59 PM  
Gyrfalcon:
Also, there needs to be a distinction between the soldier-of-fortune types, and the civilian contractors who are engaged in non-military activities that involve the OTHER reasons we're over in Iraq: To wit, helping them build that democracy we pushed so hard on them. Hard to fault the guys/gals over there helping the Iraqis do things like, you know, build roads and teach schools.


On this point, I have to agree with you. These guys were doing the job that our military has been forced to abandon due to downsizing, and some jobs that it was never intended to be within the military mission to fulfill. They were doing it because we, as a nation, got ourselves in over our heads.
 
2009-05-25 11:34:26 PM  
DeltaXi65: Many of these independent contractors who were killed weren't mercenaries. They had nothing to do with combat operations - they drove the trucks, built the bases, etc.

And those who were involved in combat operations, most of them were veterans.


The people that died doing the things you mentioned are called victims.
 
2009-05-25 11:35:00 PM  
real shaman: Contractors in war zones are a relatively new thing, created mostly by cut backs in military spending. The Army no longer has the manpower or equipment to provide their own food and housing and electricity.
So for all you slamming the contractors, write your congressmen and STFU. Our soldiers wouldn't have food and showers without those mercenary contractors.


Yes, we never could have figured out how to supply our troops without them...idiot.
 
2009-05-25 11:35:09 PM  
Just think about all the contractors who must have been on the second Death Star when the rebels blew it up.

No one cried for them either.
 
2009-05-25 11:36:00 PM  
wilbret: What makes kids with no other options than the Army a hero?
What makes Hispanics looking for citizenship by serving a hero?

The contractors are taking a bigger risk than soldiers by being there. It makes no sense to disparage them like you are doing without firsthand knowledge of WHAT they are doing.


I am not disparaging them, I just said they aren't heroes. Have you been reading long or is this your first day?
 
2009-05-25 11:36:16 PM  
Dil Doe
Memorial Day is to honor those who served in the US military. Mercenaries have to wait a few months for the holiday that covers their activities. It's called Labor Day.

Well if you want to get technical, Memorial Day is to commemorate US men and women who died while in millitary service. Veterans day is when you honor those who served in the US millitary.
 
2009-05-25 11:38:27 PM  
Having been to KAF, there isn't anything there that can't be done by US military or the many other foreign military members that is currently being done at 4x the cost that comes with hiring mercenaries.

Sever their contracts. Bring them home. If they want to play hero by firing rifles or scrubbing toilets, I have good news for them: In the military, they can do both and actually earn their Hero tag.

When this war is done, they are done. When we (the military) are back home from war, it is damn near inevitable we're going to be called up again, either for stateside assistance with natural disasters or overseas with war.. We answer that call with a sense of duty and honor, not with dollar bills in our eyes and a "fark the rules, they don't apply to me" attitude.

They want to play war, they can enlist like the rest of us.
 
2009-05-25 11:38:35 PM  
They weren't all mercenaries.

Some of them were electricians. Some were plumbers, some were construction workers, and a good many were involved in providing our troops with valuable logistical support.

Show some respect.
 
Displayed 50 of 301 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report