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(11 Alive)   Oil companies in 2008: "Demand is up, so we've regretfully had to raise prices." In 2009: "Demand is down, so we've regretfully had to raise prices"   (11alive.com) divider line 220
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7120 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 May 2009 at 2:47 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2009-05-20 11:37:05 AM  
If demand stays the same the prices will jump. Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

/Back to over $4.00 a gallon by July.
 
2009-05-20 12:14:04 PM  
I CANT GET BEHIND THAT!

/shatner
//rollins
 
2009-05-20 12:22:21 PM  
lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.
 
2009-05-20 12:36:53 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.
 
2009-05-20 12:49:53 PM  
you all act shocked. we're headed toward summer. this happens evey year, especially before holiday weekends.
 
2009-05-20 12:56:07 PM  
lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.
 
2009-05-20 12:57:29 PM  
Are we supposed to have an active hurricane season this year?

It looks like it is time to dust off the ol' "shakes magic 8-ball.." headline meme.
 
2009-05-20 01:31:58 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?
 
2009-05-20 01:41:24 PM  
Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.
 
2009-05-20 02:49:35 PM  
lajimi: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.


If you think CEObama nationalizing oil will cause prices at the pump to drop you're sadly mistaken.
 
2009-05-20 02:49:39 PM  
par for the course
 
2009-05-20 02:49:50 PM  
It was a nice winter, with that $1.90 gas. Time to get back to reality.
 
2009-05-20 02:49:50 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.


yeah and don't buy any food or goods where oil was used in the production or shipping. problem solved the "conservative" way.
 
2009-05-20 02:50:16 PM  
Given what Iran and Israel are up to, soon we'll have radioactive gasoline at discount prices.
 
2009-05-20 02:50:46 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.


Why should the postal service be profitable? It should do what it does satisfactorily and on budget. It's not a business, but it's necessary to a nation.
 
2009-05-20 02:51:16 PM  
It's like they can artificially adjust supply because they control the refineries and the gas station MUST buy their gas.

I remember when "Capitalism" meant "fair competition".
 
2009-05-20 02:51:27 PM  
rhino33: you all act shocked. we're headed toward summer. this happens evey year, especially before holiday weekends.

Besides, who the hell said that oil prices were subject to logical economics?
 
2009-05-20 02:51:55 PM  
www.atlaseditorials.com
 
2009-05-20 02:52:18 PM  
This is an outrage!


reviews.goldenagecartoons.com
 
2009-05-20 02:52:33 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


I can send a letter across the country in a couple of days for less than 50 cents. If only the health care industry was so efficient.
 
2009-05-20 02:52:38 PM  
Whatever. Just let's not get distracted from weening ourselves off oil again. I'm looking at you Zombie Reagan.
 
2009-05-20 02:53:10 PM  
lajimi: If demand stays the same the prices will jump. Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

/Back to over $4.00 a gallon by July.


I hear they have nice hotels in Venezuela. You should go there. And don't come back.
 
2009-05-20 02:54:05 PM  
In fact I DO love the Postal Service
www.corianton.com
 
2009-05-20 02:54:18 PM  
A case of corporate hubris leading to the belief of exemption from the laws of supply and demand...
 
2009-05-20 02:56:14 PM  
It's all Obama's fault! He's raising the price of gas to line the pockets of his rich oil buddies!


(Now you know how stupid that sounded last year.)
 
2009-05-20 02:56:31 PM  
lajimi: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.


At least the post office can only increase rates equal to the current rate of inflation. oil companies, whether the fit the "textbook" definition of a monopoly or not, are monopolies.

They don't compete with one another, other than to raise prices to what the guy across the street has his set at. There's no undercutting, no competition. There's no viable alternative.

Don't like your cell plan or they change your rates, go elsewhere. Don't like paying $4/gal for gas...uh..good luck.
 
2009-05-20 02:56:32 PM  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_maximization

It's like oil companies aren't idiots and we keep buying their gas.
 
2009-05-20 02:56:38 PM  
FTFA:

11Alive: "If we'll be using less gasoline because we'll all be driving higher-mileage cars, are the refineries going to kick up the prices because we're using less?"

Pitfield: "Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's basic economics."


This guy didn't take the same econ course I did in college. That quote just makes my head hurt.
 
2009-05-20 02:57:52 PM  
Up $.10 a gallon since last week in Atlanta
 
2009-05-20 02:58:16 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.


God some people are stupid. Yours is clearly the only solution.
 
2009-05-20 02:58:48 PM  
Oh it's logical economics. Gas is an inelastic good. This means that as the price goes up, demand doesn't drop proportionately, and thus profits increase.

In other words, they raise the prices because they can.

Interestingly, these are also the reasons that gas should be taxed, and not subsidized, just like alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs when they're made legal.
 
2009-05-20 02:59:16 PM  
SherKhan: Whatever. Just let's not get distracted from weening ourselves off oil again. I'm looking at you Zombie Reagan.

Zombie Reagan sold out to opec before anyone even realized what was going on. Not his fault exactly. The Republican party since the 80's have been very much against moving away from oil since their base is heavily invested. Still is.

That said... gas prices always climb in the spring as they convert the refineries to produce summer grade gas. Happens in the late summer/ early fall again for winter grade gas season.
 
2009-05-20 02:59:28 PM  
lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Why wouldn't they *always* feel like it?
 
2009-05-20 03:00:53 PM  
rhino33: you all act shocked. we're headed toward summer. this happens evey year, especially before holiday weekends.

Exactly.
 
2009-05-20 03:01:16 PM  
demand is down, but they haven't said a thing about supply.

If they don't refine at the same level, demand could decline along with a reduction in supply.

I learned this stuff in an Econ class many years ago, so it is a little fuzzy, but I think that's the basic concept.

Of course, with their ownership of the refineries, it should be pretty easy to adjust supply to meet demand with only minor fluctuations in price. This, of course, assumes that they have only reasonable profit motives and aren't willing to take advantage of the fact that almost every U.S. consumer of their product is a captive sucker.
 
2009-05-20 03:01:26 PM  
Also the Oil Companies aren't monopolies so much as oligopolies. There are very few of them. The problem then arises like it has that when they collude, it is bad for the economy. If they actually competed with one another, it may not be so bad.

Where's the conservative outrage over the free market? Oh yeah, I forgot, they cherry pick their free market support.
 
2009-05-20 03:01:35 PM  
Not only is there less demand, there is still more oil supplied at the reduced numbers.

On shore reserves are almost full, at at time that reserve capacity is at an all-time high. In additon, there are dozens of full tankers floating around with even more supply. If this was a free market, prices would fall or at least stay flat. The fact that oil and gas prices are rising is proof of mainpulation of oil futures contracts.

To say nothing of the out-of-whack oil to gas relationship. When oil was $140/barrel, gas was $4.10/gallon, yet when oil is less than half that price ($70/barrel) gas is more than half price ($2.25/gal). Refining capacity been at 60-70% if that, so the "switching over for summer gas" argument holds no water either.
 
2009-05-20 03:01:38 PM  
Oil companies in 2008: "Demand is up, so we've regretfully had to raise prices." In 2009: "Demand is down and Obama is President, so we've regretfully had to raise prices" Think of the Environment! T-Shirt

FTFY
 
2009-05-20 03:02:01 PM  
and you thought the Oil Industry is an Open, competitive Free market.

silly rabbit.
 
2009-05-20 03:02:52 PM  
Hey, oil companies, suck a big bag of dicks!
 
2009-05-20 03:03:03 PM  
We should be glad...Breaking up is hard to do...The oil companies are helping us end our unhealthy dependence on their product...But the prices are still way too cheap for us to get a divorce.
 
2009-05-20 03:03:06 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I know. I hate such efficiency that they can get insane amount of personal and mass mail delivered with nearly 100% efficiency and within the promised time limit six times a week.

You can argue that they could easily go down to four times a week, but if you want to argue government inefficiency the post office really isn't where to look for it. For all the jokes about the post office and it's laziness, they really do an amazing job for the amount of post they need to move every freaking day.
 
2009-05-20 03:03:15 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.


I'm pretty sure the postal service has not received taxpayer funding since around 1980. Is this not the case?
 
2009-05-20 03:03:36 PM  
autopsybeverage: demand is down, but they haven't said a thing about supply.

If they don't refine at the same level, demand could decline along with a reduction in supply.

I learned this stuff in an Econ class many years ago, so it is a little fuzzy, but I think that's the basic concept.

Of course, with their ownership of the refineries, it should be pretty easy to adjust supply to meet demand with only minor fluctuations in price. This, of course, assumes that they have only reasonable profit motives and aren't willing to take advantage of the fact that almost every U.S. consumer of their product is a captive sucker.


Saw a different article claiming it was because supply was down, which contradicted an article I read a few weeks back stating oil companies had barges full of the stuff waiting to go but demand wasn't there yet.
 
2009-05-20 03:04:01 PM  
Hollywood Cole: Are we supposed to have an active hurricane season this year?

It looks like it is time to dust off the ol' "shakes magic 8-ball.." headline meme.


According to a meteorologist buddy of mine, the Atlantic's supposed to be pretty mild this year.

I'm all for the magic 8-ball, though. It's how I decide who to hit on at bar...
 
2009-05-20 03:04:09 PM  
Remember how everyone was blaming high oil prices and ethanol on high food prices?

Why the fark is a big mac, small fries and pop still over $6?

Other than dollar menu items, it's becoming cheaper to eat at sit down restaurants.
 
2009-05-20 03:04:15 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


I don't have any problems with the post office; they're a lot cheaper then UPS or Fedex. Especially for small packages.
 
2009-05-20 03:04:31 PM  
LeafyGreens: Up $.10 a gallon since last week in Atlanta

At least we're still (kinda) one of the lowest prices for gas in the S.E. and possibly the country.
Still too damned much to pay, though.
 
2009-05-20 03:04:47 PM  
Meanwhile, I'm still driving the VW I bought right after Katrina, when I sold my Chevy.
 
2009-05-20 03:04:56 PM  
justtray: Oh it's logical economics. Gas is an inelastic good. This means that as the price goes up, demand doesn't drop proportionately, and thus profits increase.

In other words, they raise the prices because they can.

Interestingly, these are also the reasons that gas should be taxed, and not subsidized, just like alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs when they're made legal.


Keep dreaming about that last part. Governer Tim Pawlenty just vetoe'd a bill in my state that would've allowed medical marijuana use.

A funny side note, is that when I heard this on the radio, a caller told a story about his mom who was terminally ill and said "if she had access to medical marijuana at the time, which she didn't, because it's illegal, I imagine, that she might, of uh, benefitted, you know, if it was legal and she had access to it, which she didn't because it was illegal, it would've helped her deal with the massive amounts of pain she was in."
 
2009-05-20 03:05:31 PM  
Yep the Oil Companies have found ways to manipulate the system to get prices to go up again.

Lots of oil setting in tankers out in the ocean and yet oil prices keep going up. They stop making gasoline making supplies go down and jack up the prices there too.
 
2009-05-20 03:06:11 PM  
justtray: Where's the conservative outrage over the free market? Oh yeah, I forgot, they cherry pick their free market support.

In a free market, companies can do whatever they want, and collusion is a viable strategy. Duh.
 
2009-05-20 03:06:59 PM  
img148.imageshack.us
 
2009-05-20 03:07:24 PM  
Hollywood Cole: Are we supposed to have an active hurricane season this year?

It looks like it is time to dust off the ol' "shakes magic 8-ball.." headline meme.


I have to admit, the "shakes magic 8-ball" meme is one of the most reliable. It is a classic because it rings true.
 
2009-05-20 03:09:14 PM  
Hey oil companies - I hope you get AIDS infected with Herpes.
 
2009-05-20 03:09:25 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.


Someone once put it like this to me: If you privatized the mail completely, chances are large areas of the country would not be able to get any mail what so ever. Because there is not enough demand in some place for a company to send mail there and be profitable, hence if it was a private company the solution would be simple:don't send mail there. So, yes, the post office does lose money, but the trade off is that you have a wider availability of service than you would with a private carrier.
 
2009-05-20 03:09:41 PM  
lajimi: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.


Probably don't like the billions of tax dollars they give to welfare bums either huh?
 
2009-05-20 03:10:24 PM  
DiamondDave
It's all Obama's fault! He's raising the price of gas to line the pockets of his rich oil buddies!


(Now you know how stupid that sounded last year.)


No, it only sounds stupid now because O'Bama was never in the oil business...
Nor did he have secret meetings with the oil exec's pre-oil rich Iraq invasion...

/One of many W big OIL connections ...
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames/21
 
2009-05-20 03:10:27 PM  
Well that's okay. In our spectacular free market, we can just buy our gas from somewhere else that sells it cheaper! Surely you don't think that there's some sort of effective monopoly on oil, do you? Then we wouldn't have a free market! Why don't you ever THINK about this stuff?!
 
2009-05-20 03:11:22 PM  
I'm sure oil trading for over $60/barrel doesn't have anything to do with it. What does this guy think, because his name is Tex everyone will think he knows what he's talking about?

Roughly 8% of the oil price goes to refiners, 12% goes to the government and 70%+ is dictated by the commodities market.
 
2009-05-20 03:12:20 PM  
img199.imageshack.us
HA! HA!

(never forget)
 
2009-05-20 03:12:44 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


I like the post office. They're generally on-time and reliable, and the price is right.

As for subsidies, I know that I read somewhere that government subsidies only amount to a miniscule percentage of the USPS budget.
 
2009-05-20 03:13:17 PM  
TheStag: I'm sure oil trading for over $60/barrel doesn't have anything to do with it. What does this guy think, because his name is Tex everyone will think he knows what he's talking about?

Roughly 8% of the oil price goes to refiners, 12% goes to the government and 70%+ is dictated by the commodities market.


Oh god, not SIXTY dollars per barrel! Obviously we must change prices to match prices from when it was $140/bbl! Oh wait... that's not right...
 
2009-05-20 03:13:18 PM  
I remember last fall some blow hard on the news (can't remember the station) was going on about how the low prices of gas were bad for the economy. I'm also remembering how the same blowhard was saying a few months prior how high gases prices were bad for the economy. WTF.
 
2009-05-20 03:13:19 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Yes. The post office knows all about them.

http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/productivity.html

"...But direct subsidies to the USPS were phased out between 1972 and 1982. Today the USPS is funded entirely by revenues from postage."

http://multichannelmerchant.com/news/USPS_profit_120705/

"The U.S. Postal Service concluded fiscal 2005 with a net income of $1.4 billion on record revenue of $70 billion and record volume of 212 billion mail pieces."
 
2009-05-20 03:13:36 PM  
Oh great. As if we needed another financial crisis.
 
2009-05-20 03:14:38 PM  
Shadowknight: Dancin_In_Anson: If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I know. I hate such efficiency that they can get insane amount of personal and mass mail delivered with nearly 100% efficiency and within the promised time limit six times a week.

You can argue that they could easily go down to four times a week, but if you want to argue government inefficiency the post office really isn't where to look for it. For all the jokes about the post office and it's laziness, they really do an amazing job for the amount of post they need to move every freaking day.



It's not his fault. He's just making the typical, cliche, anti-government argument.

Like people who argue against a national health care system by comparing it to the DMV. You know, I've been a licensed driver since 1996. I think I've only had to go an actual office two or three times. I went once to get my temporary license and another time to take my test and get my real license.

Then I moved to another state in 2003 and had to physically go to an office to get my picture taken for my new license. Other than that, everything has been through the mail or over the Internet.

So yeah, the DMV, a true model of inefficiency.
 
2009-05-20 03:14:52 PM  
Hey remember what greed did for our economy in the last 8 months?

Well get ready for another heaping helping of fail.

Greedy bastards, you are so gonna get yours. AGAIN.

Where's my solar powered car dammit!!!
 
2009-05-20 03:15:44 PM  
stryker4526: TheStag: I'm sure oil trading for over $60/barrel doesn't have anything to do with it. What does this guy think, because his name is Tex everyone will think he knows what he's talking about?

Roughly 8% of the oil price goes to refiners, 12% goes to the government and 70%+ is dictated by the commodities market.

Oh god, not SIXTY dollars per barrel! Obviously we must change prices to match prices from when it was $140/bbl! Oh wait... that's not right...


$2 != $4.50
 
2009-05-20 03:15:54 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.


That's unpossible. There's no form of transportation in existence outside of the personal 2 ton steel cage.
 
2009-05-20 03:16:24 PM  
Bukharin: Dancin_In_Anson: No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Yes. The post office knows all about them.

http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/productivity.html

"...But direct subsidies to the USPS were phased out between 1972 and 1982. Today the USPS is funded entirely by revenues from postage."

http://multichannelmerchant.com/news/USPS_profit_120705/

"The U.S. Postal Service concluded fiscal 2005 with a net income of $1.4 billion on record revenue of $70 billion and record volume of 212 billion mail pieces."


www.blogcdn.com
 
2009-05-20 03:17:53 PM  
I thought this only happened before because Bush was president. Wasn't Obama supposed to save us all?
 
2009-05-20 03:18:33 PM  
TheStag: stryker4526: TheStag: I'm sure oil trading for over $60/barrel doesn't have anything to do with it. What does this guy think, because his name is Tex everyone will think he knows what he's talking about?

Roughly 8% of the oil price goes to refiners, 12% goes to the government and 70%+ is dictated by the commodities market.

Oh god, not SIXTY dollars per barrel! Obviously we must change prices to match prices from when it was $140/bbl! Oh wait... that's not right...

$2 != $4.50


What was that WHOOOOSH sound I just heard?
Oh, it was the point of my post going right over your head. He implied that $60/bbl was expensive for oil, and the reason prices are going up. I countered sarcastically, the point being that when oil was over TWICE the price it is now, gas cost half as much.
I know sarcasm is a complicated thing, but do try to keep up.
 
2009-05-20 03:19:25 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.


ah yes, you have all the answers. please elaborate.

let me guess, the free market will set us all free.
 
2009-05-20 03:21:23 PM  
Headso: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.

yeah and don't buy any food or goods where oil was used in the production or shipping. problem solved the "conservative" way.


ok - well, start hangin execs and prospectors from trees. CowboyNinjaD: Shadowknight: Dancin_In_Anson: If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I know. I hate such efficiency that they can get insane amount of personal and mass mail delivered with nearly 100% efficiency and within the promised time limit six times a week.

You can argue that they could easily go down to four times a week, but if you want to argue government inefficiency the post office really isn't where to look for it. For all the jokes about the post office and it's laziness, they really do an amazing job for the amount of post they need to move every freaking day.


It's not his fault. He's just making the typical, cliche, anti-government argument.

Like people who argue against a national health care system by comparing it to the DMV. You know, I've been a licensed driver since 1996. I think I've only had to go an actual office two or three times. I went once to get my temporary license and another time to take my test and get my real license.

Then I moved to another state in 2003 and had to physically go to an office to get my picture taken for my new license. Other than that, everything has been through the mail or over the Internet.

So yeah, the DMV, a true model of inefficiency.


you're definitely the exception to the rule.
 
2009-05-20 03:21:23 PM  
Bukharin: Dancin_In_Anson: No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Yes. The post office knows all about them.

http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/productivity.html

"...But direct subsidies to the USPS were phased out between 1972 and 1982. Today the USPS is funded entirely by revenues from postage."

http://multichannelmerchant.com/news/USPS_profit_120705/

"The U.S. Postal Service concluded fiscal 2005 with a net income of $1.4 billion on record revenue of $70 billion and record volume of 212 billion mail pieces."


Thanks for doing the work I wasn't willing to.

Seriously, is DIA like this in every thread? I can't figure out if he's the greatest troll ever or just that stupid.

/Post retarded shiat
//Post even more retarded shiat to responses to the Boobies
///Run away when an actual argument is presented
 
2009-05-20 03:22:20 PM  
So, the key to lower gas prices is to use less and curb demand, because prices go up when demand is high and supply is low. At the same time we need to use more because prices go up when demand is low and supply is high. So if demand goes up 20% and down 20% at the same time and supplies stay high, gas prices should drop because demand is up and supply is up and demand is down and supply is up, right? Am I doing it right? I don't get this new math.
 
2009-05-20 03:22:21 PM  
Why isn't oil regulated like natural gas? As a utility company, a gas company's rates can only charge enough to make a 'reasonable profit.' The state Public Utilities Commission determines these rates.
While gasoline is not provided as a utility to your home, I think a fossil fuel that the majority of the population consumes on a normal day would qualify as one.
 
2009-05-20 03:22:43 PM  
stryker4526: TheStag: stryker4526: TheStag: I'm sure oil trading for over $60/barrel doesn't have anything to do with it. What does this guy think, because his name is Tex everyone will think he knows what he's talking about?

Roughly 8% of the oil price goes to refiners, 12% goes to the government and 70%+ is dictated by the commodities market.

Oh god, not SIXTY dollars per barrel! Obviously we must change prices to match prices from when it was $140/bbl! Oh wait... that's not right...

$2 != $4.50

What was that WHOOOOSH sound I just heard?
Oh, it was the point of my post going right over your head. He implied that $60/bbl was expensive for oil, and the reason prices are going up. I countered sarcastically, the point being that when oil was over TWICE the price it is now, gas cost half as much.
I know sarcasm is a complicated thing, but do try to keep up.


I guess that one went over my head too. When was oil at $120/bbl (60 x 2) and gas at $1.00/gallon (2 x 1/2)?
 
2009-05-20 03:23:56 PM  
Shadowknight: Dancin_In_Anson: If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I know. I hate such efficiency that they can get insane amount of personal and mass mail delivered with nearly 100% efficiency and within the promised time limit six times a week.

You can argue that they could easily go down to four times a week, but if you want to argue government inefficiency the post office really isn't where to look for it. For all the jokes about the post office and it's laziness, they really do an amazing job for the amount of post they need to move every freaking day.


This man thanks for your kind remarks:

gygesring.files.wordpress.com
 
2009-05-20 03:25:00 PM  
stinky_pete: To say nothing of the out-of-whack oil to gas relationship. When oil was $140/barrel, gas was $4.10/gallon, yet when oil is less than half that price ($70/barrel) gas is more than half price ($2.25/gal).

Not that I'm a proponent for the refineries by any means, but the above is explained by the fact that there are costs of the refining process that don't fluctuate with the cost of goods. This is true of any manufacturing process.
 
2009-05-20 03:25:00 PM  
NaziKamikaze: Thanks for doing the work I wasn't willing to.

No sweat. I was also under the impression they were subsidised and inefficient until I read 'going postal' by Mark Ames a couple of years ago. Blew my mind.
 
2009-05-20 03:25:43 PM  
I'm just happy to see that the journalist in TFA actually, you know, questioned the major holes in this guy's logic, instead of just passing it on like gospel truth.

The oil industry is trying the market again, and seeing if we'll tolerate another period of dropping off our driving habits. It is certainly nice of them to swing their dicks around to shake up the oh-so-stable economy. Let's raise the price of everything during a major recession YAYAYAYAY!

I guess we'll see who flinches first.
 
2009-05-20 03:25:57 PM  
img29.imageshack.us

I took this pic at a local gas station last August. It seems appropriate.

/sorry you may have to squint
//damn picture size limits
 
2009-05-20 03:26:33 PM  
record volume of 212 billion mail pieces

Doesn't happen to say what percentage actually happened to be delivered to where it was addressed, did it? 60%? 75%? More, less?
 
2009-05-20 03:26:36 PM  
lajimi: If demand stays the same the prices will jump. Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

/Back to over $4.00 a gallon by July.


Yeahh, 'cause it worked so well for us.

www.soberania.org

/You got a good thing going on
//You just need to tweak it up a bit
 
2009-05-20 03:28:05 PM  
Therion: HA! HA!

(never forget)


I've always wanted to kick this guy in the balls. Hard.
 
2009-05-20 03:28:17 PM  
mod3072: So, the key to lower gas prices is to use less and curb demand, because prices go up when demand is high and supply is low. At the same time we need to use more because prices go up when demand is low and supply is high. So if demand goes up 20% and down 20% at the same time and supplies stay high, gas prices should drop because demand is up and supply is up and demand is down and supply is up, right? Am I doing it right? I don't get this new math.

Stop. Just stop... think too hard about this and you're bound to kick your dog out of frustration.
 
2009-05-20 03:28:21 PM  
Bigger size (new window)
 
2009-05-20 03:28:34 PM  
CowboyNinjaD: It's not his fault. He's just making the typical, cliche, anti-government argument.

Like people who argue against a national health care system by comparing it to the DMV. You know, I've been a licensed driver since 1996. I think I've only had to go an actual office two or three times. I went once to get my temporary license and another time to take my test and get my real license.

Then I moved to another state in 2003 and had to physically go to an office to get my picture taken for my new license. Other than that, everything has been through the mail or over the Internet.

So yeah, the DMV, a true model of inefficiency.


The DMV here in Virginia can be pretty atrocious, but I think it has more to do with the workers than the government involvement. They seem to hate the fact that their entire job is set up around giving everyone a hard time, pushing paperwork, and taking bad pictures while people blink.

But as you said, I can do almost everything online these days, once you're in the system, so it's not that painful anymore.
 
2009-05-20 03:28:57 PM  
Hahaha. Good. A stupid, lazy populace gets taken advantage of. Rinse and repeat.

I hope they make gas $20/g. You all would still be sitting here crying, yet never doing anything about it.
 
2009-05-20 03:29:18 PM  
TastyEloi: This man thanks for your kind remarks:

I guess I am to young at 28 to understand what Brimely had to do with the USPS.
 
2009-05-20 03:29:38 PM  
matt2891: So, yes, the post office does lose money, but the trade off is that you have a wider availability of service than you would with a private carrier.

Does it actually lose money? I thought it was self sustaining.
 
2009-05-20 03:30:07 PM  
TheStag: stryker4526: TheStag: stryker4526: TheStag: I'm sure oil trading for over $60/barrel doesn't have anything to do with it. What does this guy think, because his name is Tex everyone will think he knows what he's talking about?

Roughly 8% of the oil price goes to refiners, 12% goes to the government and 70%+ is dictated by the commodities market.

Oh god, not SIXTY dollars per barrel! Obviously we must change prices to match prices from when it was $140/bbl! Oh wait... that's not right...

$2 != $4.50

What was that WHOOOOSH sound I just heard?
Oh, it was the point of my post going right over your head. He implied that $60/bbl was expensive for oil, and the reason prices are going up. I countered sarcastically, the point being that when oil was over TWICE the price it is now, gas cost half as much.
I know sarcasm is a complicated thing, but do try to keep up.

I guess that one went over my head too. When was oil at $120/bbl (60 x 2) and gas at $1.00/gallon (2 x 1/2)?


Sorry, I meant half of the $4/gal they're going to raise it to again this summer.
tonto.eia.doe.gov

In about 2008 (hard to tell from the graph... scale isn't so hot.)
Average gas in MI right around Summer '08 was around $1.50-1.90 or so per gallon.
So... there you go.
 
2009-05-20 03:30:20 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Saw a different article claiming it was because supply was down, which contradicted an article I read a few weeks back stating oil companies had barges full of the stuff waiting to go but demand wasn't there yet.

No point in producing if there is no customer. They leave it in the ground until they need it. Most companies aren't even drilling this year. No point. They're waiting for the price to climb again, and cutting costs instead.
 
2009-05-20 03:30:54 PM  
Actually, prices went DOWN in 2008 starting in the summer and ending around the election time. This also happened in the months preceding the 2004 election. Not a coincidence. And yes, they were most definitely going to go up afterward (and they did).
 
2009-05-20 03:31:36 PM  
...
 
2009-05-20 03:35:06 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


Universal service? Costs 1/10 as much as the private alternative. Low rates of loss considering the volume delivered?

Yeah, OK. Bring on the nationalized oil!
 
2009-05-20 03:36:13 PM  
img35.imageshack.us
 
2009-05-20 03:37:46 PM  
lajimi: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.


so you rather subsidize government oil by having the government steal the 4 dollars from your paycheck and spend it poorly then also pay 2 dollars at the pump. yes.. that is a brilliant scheme to have your money stolen from you. genius!
 
2009-05-20 03:39:12 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.


Oh I was not aware that they taught complex economics such as that in Douche bag school. You must have studied hard.
 
2009-05-20 03:39:54 PM  
Wow, I wish I took economics where that d-bag did. Obama is in Big Oils pocket just like the rest of them.
 
2009-05-20 03:40:20 PM  
NaziKamikaze: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Why should the postal service be profitable? It should do what it does satisfactorily and on budget. It's not a business, but it's necessary to a nation.


because if they are not profitable then they are stealing my money for something I don't want and could be better served by privatization. Lets pay to have a service that feeds the ducks. hey.. 'its providing a service'! Really, the biggest problem is how the laws block privatization now.
 
2009-05-20 03:41:14 PM  
Marley'sGirl: Why isn't oil regulated like natural gas? As a utility company, a gas company's rates can only charge enough to make a 'reasonable profit.' The state Public Utilities Commission determines these rates.
While gasoline is not provided as a utility to your home, I think a fossil fuel that the majority of the population consumes on a normal day would qualify as one.


Yeah. Since everyone in the country relies on gasoline to keep their daily lives going one would think that it should be treated more like a necessity rather than a luxury. Someone once told me its the oil futures market that makes the price at the pump so high. The government should regulate that or something.
 
2009-05-20 03:42:11 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.


SkittlesAreYum: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

I'm pretty sure the postal service has not received taxpayer funding since around 1980. Is this not the case?


matt2891: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Someone once put it like this to me: If you privatized the mail completely, chances are large areas of the country would not be able to get any mail what so ever. Because there is not enough demand in some place for a company to send mail there and be profitable, hence if it was a private company the solution would be simple:don't send mail there. So, yes, the post office does lose money, but the trade off is that you have a wider availability of service than you would with a private carrier.



You all fail. Well not Skittles, but the rest of you.

The post office receives exactly $0.00 in taxpayer money each year. This has been the case for some years now. I don't have the materials with me or I'd cite one of their internal docs on how all this works. It is most emphatically NOT subsidized. It is also NOT a federal organization in the way that CIA is. It is also NOT a traditional non-profit organization in the way that my current employer is (which is allowed to generate as much revenue as it likes, and then use that revenue as it pleases--but it's non-profit because we don't have shareholders to pay out to, and so the monies are typically folded back into the company to further our social mission). The USPS works on a much tighter and more difficult model: they are mandated to remain revenue neutral over a three year time period. I don't know all the details of this, but essentially they have to make sure that there are NO profits and NO losses. This must also be done while delivering mail to all those excessively rural locations.

You want efficiency? I'm sorry, but the USPS is pretty darn good at what they do, and I'm glad that it exists. When you look at the rate at which stamps have gone up in prices, you must realize that given the cost of a stamp in the early 1900s and relative inflation rates, I think the post office has done a good job of keeping prices way down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_Postal_Service_rates

All in all? That's pretty impressive. Inflation adjusted rates for 1863 were HIGHER than inflation adjust rates for 2008 (it's a very very marginal difference, but all things considered, it's impressive). Also note that the inflation adjusted rate for additional ounces is MUCH lower now than in past years. Post card rates started low, but have stabilized.

If we had the same model for gas, would most of us be happy? Actually, no matter how you slice it, gas prices have been pretty flat once you adjust for inflation:

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

(feel free to do your own google search).

So is the free market doing better/worse than the heavily price controlled quasi-federal agency? From where I sit, it looks pretty close. Funny that.
 
2009-05-20 03:42:11 PM  
Tavernknight: Someone once told me its the oil futures market that makes the price at the pump so high.

Ding ding.
 
2009-05-20 03:42:54 PM  
starfliz: lajimi: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

so you rather subsidize government oil by having the government steal the 4 dollars from your paycheck and spend it poorly then also pay 2 dollars at the pump. yes.. that is a brilliant scheme to have your money stolen from you. genius!


The USPS is not subsidized by the government. Their prices are pretty damn fair, more like 50 cents a gallon.

Not all government agencies are inefficient, and anyway the USPS is not a government agency.
 
2009-05-20 03:43:01 PM  
starfliz: NaziKamikaze: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Why should the postal service be profitable? It should do what it does satisfactorily and on budget. It's not a business, but it's necessary to a nation.

because if they are not profitable then they are stealing my money for something I don't want and could be better served by privatization. Lets pay to have a service that feeds the ducks. hey.. 'its providing a service'! Really, the biggest problem is how the laws block privatization now.


Uh, Fedex? DHL? UPS?

Man, the stupid is strong with you.
 
2009-05-20 03:44:14 PM  
justtray: Oh it's logical economics. Gas is an inelastic good. This means that as the price goes up, demand doesn't drop proportionately, and thus profits increase.

In other words, they raise the prices because they can.



You know not what inelastic means.
The mere fact that quantity demanded has retracted significantly *after* the price went way up says that it in fact is not inelastic.

Granted gasoline may have a *higher* inelasticity than other goods, but to categorically say it is "an inelastic good" given what has happened the last 8 - 10 months is just patently wrong.
 
2009-05-20 03:44:22 PM  
starfliz: NaziKamikaze: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Why should the postal service be profitable? It should do what it does satisfactorily and on budget. It's not a business, but it's necessary to a nation.

because if they are not profitable then they are stealing my money for something I don't want and could be better served by privatization. Lets pay to have a service that feeds the ducks. hey.. 'its providing a service'! Really, the biggest problem is how the laws block privatization now.


Learn to read, you farking moron. The USPS hasn't been subsidized since the EIGHTIES. TWO DECADES AGO. They are also a federally-regulated PRIVATE organization.

Everything you say is just a pile of dumb. You know that?
 
2009-05-20 03:44:43 PM  
Shadowknight: CowboyNinjaD: It's not his fault. He's just making the typical, cliche, anti-government argument.

Like people who argue against a national health care system by comparing it to the DMV. You know, I've been a licensed driver since 1996. I think I've only had to go an actual office two or three times. I went once to get my temporary license and another time to take my test and get my real license.

Then I moved to another state in 2003 and had to physically go to an office to get my picture taken for my new license. Other than that, everything has been through the mail or over the Internet.

So yeah, the DMV, a true model of inefficiency.

The DMV here in Virginia can be pretty atrocious, but I think it has more to do with the workers than the government involvement. They seem to hate the fact that their entire job is set up around giving everyone a hard time, pushing paperwork, and taking bad pictures while people blink.

But as you said, I can do almost everything online these days, once you're in the system, so it's not that painful anymore.



When I moved to Florida (the worst place in the world as far as Fark is concerned), they actually let me make an appointment to get my license changed over. So I show up, get my picture taken, take an eye exam and they hand me my new license. The whole thing took about 10 minutes.

I've moved several times within the state since then, and every time I need to get a new card or update my registration, I do it over the Internet.

I'm sure there are valid reasons for actually going into the DMV offices but I suspect that 90 percent of the people there are just old, foreign or stupid.
 
2009-05-20 03:45:00 PM  
SCUM SUCKING PIGZ

End the dependency on oil NOW!!
 
2009-05-20 03:45:13 PM  
Shadowknight: TastyEloi: This man thanks for your kind remarks:

I guess I am to young at 28 to understand what Brimely had to do with the USPS.


GOLD Jerry GOLD
 
2009-05-20 03:45:44 PM  
Doc Daneeka: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I like the post office. They're generally on-time and reliable, and the price is right.

As for subsidies, I know that I read somewhere that government subsidies only amount to a miniscule percentage of the USPS budget.


And the biggest subsidies go to massive corporations in agriculture, mining, and petro-chemicals or energy (oil).

But seriously, it's them welfare queens in designer jeans that be suckin' us dry - oh, and the Mayheecan'ts.

/more white folks on welfare than others
//yeah, there are more white folks, but still, more white welfare queens than any other type
///Dancin in ansin needs to start readin'in ansin
 
2009-05-20 03:46:53 PM  
Also if the damn oil companies have record profits again then I don't think I can handle it. I may very well snap and have to start setting poo filled flaming bags on oil trader's doorsteps again.
 
2009-05-20 03:49:03 PM  
Look I own stock in ExxonMobil, the price has flatline in the last year. They need to raise gas prices so they can be to improve their quality in stock and be able to pay dividends to their stock owners.

I need to put gold on our tables every night and you dumb farks decided to stop consuming. No wonder the country is going down the tubes while China is not.

Go on a spending binge.
 
2009-05-20 03:50:06 PM  
starfliz: so you rather subsidize government oil by having the government steal the 4 dollars from your paycheck and spend it poorly then also pay 2 dollars at the pump. yes.. that is a brilliant scheme to have your money stolen from you. genius!

Do you really believe that government agents are going to punch you in the stomach and take your money from you? That seems a bit nutty to me. You seem like the "black helicopter" type.
 
2009-05-20 03:50:13 PM  
chefaj: lajimi: If demand stays the same the prices will jump. Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

/Back to over $4.00 a gallon by July.

I hear they have nice hotels in Venezuela. You should go there. And don't come back.


You belong in Texas.
 
2009-05-20 03:50:52 PM  
Prohest: SCUM SUCKING PIGZ

End the dependency on oil NOW!!


Oil is used to make plastic and practically every component in your CPU. Let me see you get online with a computer made out of leaves and figs. You have a one-track mind, oil is much more than a fuel, dummy.
 
2009-05-20 03:51:15 PM  
Let 'em raise it as much as they want but then start making them pay their fair share of taxes. Then most of the money they make just goes back to us anyway.
 
2009-05-20 03:51:17 PM  
Triaxis: lajimi: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

If you think CEObama nationalizing oil will cause prices at the pump to drop you're sadly mistaken.


Racist.
 
2009-05-20 03:52:41 PM  
Nightsweat: Uh, Fedex? DHL? UPS?

To be fair, DHL is the German Post office. 35.5% state owned.
 
2009-05-20 03:52:51 PM  
Good. I hope demand never recovers.
 
2009-05-20 03:53:12 PM  
JMMODE: Prohest: SCUM SUCKING PIGZ

End the dependency on oil NOW!!

Oil is used to make plastic and practically every component in your CPU. Let me see you get online with a computer made out of leaves and figs. You have a one-track mind, oil is much more than a fuel, dummy.


My schematic calls for a box of string
 
2009-05-20 03:53:32 PM  
NaziKamikaze: Bukharin: Dancin_In_Anson: No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Yes. The post office knows all about them.

http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/productivity.html

"...But direct subsidies to the USPS were phased out between 1972 and 1982. Today the USPS is funded entirely by revenues from postage."

http://multichannelmerchant.com/news/USPS_profit_120705/

"The U.S. Postal Service concluded fiscal 2005 with a net income of $1.4 billion on record revenue of $70 billion and record volume of 212 billion mail pieces."

Thanks for doing the work I wasn't willing to.

Seriously, is DIA like this in every thread? I can't figure out if he's the greatest troll ever or just that stupid.

/Post retarded shiat
//Post even more retarded shiat to responses to the Boobies
///Run away when an actual argument is presented



I vote stupid....and grossly misinformed about most things.
And most of the time too much of a chickenshiat to come back to the threads and take it like a man when he is abundantly proven wrong.
 
2009-05-20 03:53:33 PM  
Funk Brothers: Look I own stock in ExxonMobil, the price has flatline in the last year. They need to raise gas prices so they can be to improve their quality in stock and be able to pay dividends to their stock owners.

I need to put gold on our tables every night and you dumb farks decided to stop consuming. No wonder the country is going down the tubes while China is not.

Go on a spending binge.


First, government agents are stealing our money. Now people are saying that our country is going down the tubes while China is not? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that China can't afford tubes to go down into when they fall on hard times.
 
2009-05-20 03:53:54 PM  
What really bugged me about the Obama plan to raise the MPG was the fact that car companies were just like "ok, no problem" like it was no big deal.

First off, if it's no big deal, why didn't they do it before, other than their obvious ties to the oil industry?

Second, if those ratings are so "easy" to meet, make it 45mpg and all cars and light trucks are required to be hybrid vehicles as well. Seriously, why limit it at 35 mpg, which is a farce EPA rating anyway. No one will actually GET 35mpg, more like 28 if the current rules are the same.
 
2009-05-20 03:54:09 PM  
darksarin: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

SkittlesAreYum: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

I'm pretty sure the postal service has not received taxpayer funding since around 1980. Is this not the case?

matt2891: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Someone once put it like this to me: If you privatized the mail completely, chances are large areas of the country would not be able to get any mail what so ever. Because there is not enough demand in some place for a company to send mail there and be profitable, hence if it was a private company the solution would be simple:don't send mail there. So, yes, the post office does lose money, but the trade off is that you have a wider availability of service than you would with a private carrier.


You all fail. Well not Skittles, but the rest of you.

The post office receives exactly $0.00 in taxpayer money each year. This has been the case for some years now. I don't have the materials with me or I'd cite one of their internal docs on how all this works. It is most emphatically NOT subsidized. It is also NOT a federal organization in the way that CIA is. It is also NOT a traditional non-profit organization in the way that my current employer is (which is allowed to generate as much revenue as it likes, and then use that revenue as it pleases--but it's non-profit because we don't have shareholders to pay out to, and so the monies are typically folded back into the company to further our social mission). The USPS works on a much tighter and more difficult model: they are mandated to remain revenue neutral over a three year time period. I don't know all the details of this, but essentially they have to make sure that there are NO profits and NO losses. This must also be done while delivering mail to all those excessively rural locations.

You want efficiency? I'm sorry, but the USPS is pretty darn good at what they do, and I'm glad that it exists. When you look at the rate at which stamps have gone up in prices, you must realize that given the cost of a stamp in the early 1900s and relative inflation rates, I think the post office has done a good job of keeping prices way down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_Postal_Service_rates

All in all? That's pretty impressive. Inflation adjusted rates for 1863 were HIGHER than inflation adjust rates for 2008 (it's a very very marginal difference, but all things considered, it's impressive). Also note that the inflation adjusted rate for additional ounces is MUCH lower now than in past years. Post card rates started low, but have stabilized.

If we had the same model for gas, would most of us be happy? Actually, no matter how you slice it, gas prices have been pretty flat once you adjust for inflation:

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.html

(feel free to do your own google search).

So is the free market doing better/worse than the heavily price controlled quasi-federal agency? From where I sit, it looks pretty close. Funny that.


I wasn't arguing against the USPS. Im actually very much for it. I was just saying that if it was totally private, then there would be sections of the country that wouldn't recieve mail due to low demand. The fact that the USPS is self-sustaining is just icing on the cake.
 
2009-05-20 03:54:11 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


maybe they'll have the forever gallon. wait, what?
 
2009-05-20 03:56:34 PM  
Inescapable Future of Humanity: First, government agents are stealing our money. Now people are saying that our country is going down the tubes while China is not? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that China can't afford tubes to go down into when they fall on hard times.

Not only that, but Obama stole my bike.
 
2009-05-20 03:59:00 PM  
So demand is down and supply is up, yet prices are being driven up? Sounds to me that some speculators are setting themselves up to lose a chunk of money.
 
2009-05-20 03:59:03 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: What really bugged me about the Obama plan to raise the MPG was the fact that car companies were just like "ok, no problem" like it was no big deal.

First off, if it's no big deal, why didn't they do it before, other than their obvious ties to the oil industry?

Second, if those ratings are so "easy" to meet, make it 45mpg and all cars and light trucks are required to be hybrid vehicles as well. Seriously, why limit it at 35 mpg, which is a farce EPA rating anyway. No one will actually GET 35mpg, more like 28 if the current rules are the same.


I think it's a combination of profitability and desperation. All the car companies are hurting now, even foreign cars. Toyota asked Japan for a bailout. You never hear about it because people are two busy drooling onto their keyboards while ranting about how the UAW is single-handedly sending all of our jobs over seas.

I think that they're accepting so that, if they fail, they can point at the government and say that it was their idea anyway. They certainly have tried anything else. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.
 
2009-05-20 04:00:13 PM  
JMMODE: Prohest: SCUM SUCKING PIGZ

End the dependency on oil NOW!!

Oil is used to make plastic and practically every component in your CPU. Let me see you get online with a computer made out of leaves and figs. You have a one-track mind, oil is much more than a fuel, dummy.


On a past fark thread someone made the comment that future generations are going to look back at us as a bunch of farking idiots cause we've been burning one of the most versatile building materials around. I guess it'd be like if we found fossil evidence that cavemen ate wood rather than built shelter/made tools with it.

Also, usually when people say our dependency on oil, they're generally talking about our use of oil as a fuel. And I'm sorry, thats just good sense, whether you agree with it for environmental, economic, or political reasons.
 
2009-05-20 04:00:39 PM  
Funk Brothers: Not only that, but Obama stole my bike.

What you did there. I would see it, but Mike Tyson punched me out and broke my glasses.
 
2009-05-20 04:00:53 PM  
Inescapable Future of Humanity: starfliz: so you rather subsidize government oil by having the government steal the 4 dollars from your paycheck and spend it poorly then also pay 2 dollars at the pump. yes.. that is a brilliant scheme to have your money stolen from you. genius!

Do you really believe that government agents are going to punch you in the stomach and take your money from you? That seems a bit nutty to me. You seem like the "black helicopter" type.


I'll feed the troll, as this smacks of just enough idealism to be real.

Yes, I will gladly pay the government to be inefficient and steal my money - that is a far better alternative than continuing to support Exxon, Shell, and all the nasty companies that suck off them (KBR, Halliburton, etc.). They steal my money and are inefficient, too. But when push comes to shove I can organize my neighbors and boot out my elected reps, start a blog and try to convince others to do the same, and maybe after a few years get laws passed and maybe even reverse the whole policy. With Exxon - they will have the tax-funded state arrest and toss me in jail if I try to protest directly against them or organize at their private locations. The oil companies have had decades to shape up and instead have chosen to loot us.

Time's up.
 
2009-05-20 04:00:55 PM  
GoodyearPimp: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Why wouldn't they *always* feel like it?


they know not to cause true public outrage. increases have to be gradual.
 
2009-05-20 04:01:57 PM  
I really can't wait until there is an affordable, practical electric car. Yes, I'll still keep one of my gas-powered cars for longer trips and such, but 99% of my driving will be electric and then I can have the satisfaction of telling the oil companies to kiss my ass.
 
Jha
2009-05-20 04:02:01 PM  
Let's ignore the fact that taxes were raised on gasoline, subby.
 
2009-05-20 04:02:52 PM  
Funk Brothers: Not only that, but Obama stole my bike.

img.photobucket.com
 
2009-05-20 04:03:00 PM  
Kanyon: I took this pic at a local gas station last August. It seems appropriate.

/sorry you may have to squint
//damn picture size limits


It might help if you cropped the picture, and used a lower quality setting (higher .jpeg compression) on the pics before you post them. That's how some folks can post huge looking pics and still have them under the limits. Or, you can put the numbers from the pic in your post.
/graphic artist
//scary numbers
 
2009-05-20 04:03:57 PM  
Fark-the-Fnord: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.

Oh I was not aware that they taught complex economics such as that in Douche bag school. You must have studied hard.


Douche bag school? My, aren't you clever! Well those of us at the Douche bag school are waiting to hear YOUR ideas, come on, someone as clever as you must be overflowing with ideas. We're waiting.

/A real wit
//Well, half of one
 
2009-05-20 04:04:12 PM  
JMMODE: Prohest: SCUM SUCKING PIGZ

End the dependency on oil NOW!!

Oil is used to make plastic and practically every component in your CPU. Let me see you get online with a computer made out of leaves and figs. You have a one-track mind, oil is much more than a fuel, dummy.


One of my favorite arguments.

Please, tell us professor, how much oil does it take to make 100 plastic bags? how bout 100 microchips? How bout 100 frames for monitors?

Ok... how many bags, chips, monitors can we make with the oil from one fuel tank of one average sized SUV?

No one in their right mind says "go back to the stone age". But I think most say, "let's stop burning this stuff and instead use it more wisely and efficiently". One day, when oil becomes really scarce from using it in cars, your nightmare of a hippy controlled world will be real, and you will be the one to cause it.
 
2009-05-20 04:04:36 PM  
partisan222: I'll feed the troll, as this smacks of just enough idealism to be real.

Hey, don't quote me! I was just wondering what the hell he meant by the government 'stealing' from him. Does he have to walk around with special tinfoil pants that prevent the government from getting their money stealing radiowaves into his pockets?
 
2009-05-20 04:05:57 PM  
What a fantastic name for an oil expert! Tex Pitfield!

///The environmental lobby welcomes it's alternative energy expert, Sol Ruufpower!
 
2009-05-20 04:06:37 PM  
Inescapable Future of Humanity: partisan222: I'll feed the troll, as this smacks of just enough idealism to be real.

Hey, don't quote me! I was just wondering what the hell he meant by the government 'stealing' from him. Does he have to walk around with special tinfoil pants that prevent the government from getting their money stealing radiowaves into his pockets?


you're all trolls
 
2009-05-20 04:07:07 PM  
As of yesterday. The car companies biatched they will not be able to sell the new fuel efficient cars unless gas prices are 4 dollars a gallon again. SO-testing in one to three...
/wonders when I turned into a female Dale Gribble.
 
2009-05-20 04:08:10 PM  
partisan222: you're all trolls

I'm not a Troll. I'm more of a forum goblin.
 
2009-05-20 04:09:11 PM  
Inescapable Future of Humanity: I'm not a Troll. I'm more of a forum goblin.

I'm a pants gnome.
 
2009-05-20 04:12:03 PM  
partisan222: JMMODE: Prohest: SCUM SUCKING PIGZ

End the dependency on oil NOW!!

Oil is used to make plastic and practically every component in your CPU. Let me see you get online with a computer made out of leaves and figs. You have a one-track mind, oil is much more than a fuel, dummy.

One of my favorite arguments.

Please, tell us professor, how much oil does it take to make 100 plastic bags? how bout 100 microchips? How bout 100 frames for monitors?

Ok... how many bags, chips, monitors can we make with the oil from one fuel tank of one average sized SUV?

No one in their right mind says "go back to the stone age". But I think most say, "let's stop burning this stuff and instead use it more wisely and efficiently". One day, when oil becomes really scarce from using it in cars, your nightmare of a hippy controlled world will be real, and you will be the one to cause it.


Also makes for a good reason not to get rid of the limited supply of oil we have. The Drill Baby Drill crowd wanted to burn it up yesterday. Use the foreign oil first and ours becomes even more valuable.
 
2009-05-20 04:12:05 PM  
Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

They have this new invention called a fax machine. You may have heard of it.
 
2009-05-20 04:14:57 PM  
We already have laws against price gouging during national emergencies.
A declared war (even on on "terror") is a national emergency.

Why have we not yet prosecuted the oil industries CEOs?
 
2009-05-20 04:19:07 PM  
lajimi: Fark-the-Fnord: Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.

Oh I was not aware that they taught complex economics such as that in Douche bag school. You must have studied hard.

Douche bag school? My, aren't you clever! Well those of us at the Douche bag school are waiting to hear YOUR ideas, come on, someone as clever as you must be overflowing with ideas. We're waiting.

/A real wit
//Well, half of one


What it sounds like is that there is a spinning wheel of blame that the media points out every time that this issue comes up,and it comes up a lot. First it is the oil companies and they are the ones to blame because they are getting these record profits, lets blame them. But wait!! It looks like it is not them that is running up the prices, it is the refineries, OK no problem lets let the oil companies off of the hook and go after the refineries. The refineries are saying, no it is not us you guys need to look at the speculators, they are the ones driving up the prices.

I think all three are getting rich and they have the media in their pocket to get the American people to keep chasing their tails at who to blame for high oil prices so we do not go and tar and feather them. Of course we would not be able to go and tar and feather them because tar is made from oil and no one can afford a barrel of oil.

One of the best things to do is to get cars that run off of electricity and to make mass transit systems more available in smaller cities. Every small city has a larger city nearby which has an established mass transit system and a lot of people that live in the smaller city or its suburbs probably commute to the bigger city. It would be a lot more efficient to put high speed rail to connect every major city in the United States and then also to have rail going from the major city down to its smaller cities.

On top of that we need to embrace nuclear power more. Once these things are in place then we can go ahead and stop using oil. It is not an acceptable answer to just stop using it, there has to be a viable solution in place. Not everyone lives within biking distance of their job.
 
2009-05-20 04:19:53 PM  
there4igraham:

They have this new invention called a fax machine. You may have heard of it.

Fax is short for facsimile. You're not sending the actual paper.
 
2009-05-20 04:23:35 PM  
Inescapable Future of Humanity: You never hear about it because people are two busy drooling onto their keyboard

heh.
 
2009-05-20 04:23:43 PM  
mod3072: So, the key to lower gas prices is to use less and curb demand, because prices go up when demand is high and supply is low. At the same time we need to use more because prices go up when demand is low and supply is high. So if demand goes up 20% and down 20% at the same time and supplies stay high, gas prices should drop because demand is up and supply is up and demand is down and supply is up, right? Am I doing it right?

Think about it this way: YOU don't control pricing, THEY do. And they'll raise prices whenever they think they can. The only recourse is to increase your personal efficiency to minimize their pricing impact.

A tale of two traveling salesmen where I work: The company reimburses a flat rate per mile driven. Salesman A drives a Durango. When gas hit $4/gal he was sweating bullets because it was now costing him money to do his job. Salesman B drives an Accord. When gas hit $4/gal he still came out ahead, just less than when it was at $2/gal.

The whole gloating at people who bought efficient vehicles when gas was cheap missed the point. If you don't consume much fuel to begin with, you don't care whether gas is $1/gallon or $4/gallon. It's not like somone who uses only a gallon of gas a week is screwed if gas prices drop*. OTOH if you drive an F-350 to a job in the city when you live 60 miles out in the exurbs, the moment gas prices double you're feeling a white-hot rod up the ass.

*I must note the Prius is not a good way to save gas. It's a nice car but it's a high-end sedan, not an economy car. If you want to save gas on the cheap, buy something like a Ford Focus or Honda Fit or, better yet, consider a motorcycle or bicycle depending on your local traffic.
 
2009-05-20 04:23:47 PM  
FTA: In order to break even, a refinery needs about $70 for a 42 gallon barrel of crude oil reflecting the cost of exploration to end sale.

Like how pharmaceutical companies need drug prices to be as high as they are to pay for research and development.
 
2009-05-20 04:24:10 PM  
corn-bread: justtray: Oh it's logical economics. Gas is an inelastic good. This means that as the price goes up, demand doesn't drop proportionately, and thus profits increase.

In other words, they raise the prices because they can.



You know not what inelastic means.
The mere fact that quantity demanded has retracted significantly *after* the price went way up says that it in fact is not inelastic.

Granted gasoline may have a *higher* inelasticity than other goods, but to categorically say it is "an inelastic good" given what has happened the last 8 - 10 months is just patently wrong.


Look kid. If you're going to try to debate economics with an adult, at least actually know economic terms.

The short answer to your post is you're an idiot and have no clue how economics works at all.

The long answer is that just because price goes up and people buy less, that doesn't make a good elastic. You seem to completely have misunderstood what I wrote. Price goes up, but demand does not drop significantly because people still need or want the product, in this case need. They may drive less often, but they don't drop their consumption in the same way they would for another, more elastic good.

Yes gas is an INELASTIC good. To say anything otherwise is simply not correct. Please see the above paragraph if you still don't understand. I'm guessing you don't because you didn't the first time. It's ok, economics is hard, stupid people just can't understand it.

So in conclusion, YOU don't know what inelastic means, sadly.
 
2009-05-20 04:25:30 PM  
Cup_O_Jo: As of yesterday. The car companies biatched they will not be able to sell the new fuel efficient cars unless gas prices are 4 dollars a gallon again. SO-testing in one to three...
/wonders when I turned into a female Dale Gribble.


readingeagle.com

What a Female Dale Gribble might look like.

/The one on the right
//Eye bleach needed
///Kill it with Fire!!
 
2009-05-20 04:29:52 PM  
ZOMG teh eevul big oil is out to get us again. Lets get all political, anti-establishment, go on a witch hunt and throw economics 101 out the window.
 
2009-05-20 04:30:37 PM  
As an 18 year old who's having his birthday and got a Ford Fusion rated at 30+ MPG, I'm getting a real kick out of these replies.

/American- designed quality
//Mexican- built quality
///Better quality ratings than the Camry and Accord. Suck on it, Toyota and Honda.
////EWE ESSS AYYY!!! EWE ESSS AYYY!!!
 
2009-05-20 04:31:15 PM  
that1guy77: Lets get all political, anti-establishment, go on a witch hunt and throw economics 101 out the window.

Demand goes up, prices go up. Demand goes down, prices go up. Meanwhile, supply stays flat.

I don't think we're the ones who first threw Econ 101 out the window here.
 
2009-05-20 04:31:31 PM  
stryker4526: Average gas in MI right around Summer '08 was around $1.50-1.90 or so per gallon.

No farking way.
 
2009-05-20 04:34:36 PM  
Kar98: stryker4526: Average gas in MI right around Summer '08 was around $1.50-1.90 or so per gallon.

No farking way.


Michigan gas prices drop slightly
Posted by The Associated Press August 11, 2008 12:25PM
Categories: Statewide News

DETROIT -- AAA Michigan says gas prices have dropped three-tenths of a penny over the last week, putting the statewide average at $3.86 a gallon.

The state auto club said Monday that of the cities it surveys, the cheapest price for self-serve regular fuel is in the Saginaw/Bay City area, where a gallon costs $3.81. The highest average can be found in the Marquette area at $3.96.

The Detroit-area average was $3.84.

The statewide average for biodiesel is $4.56 and $3.36 for ethanol.

AAA surveys 2,800 Michigan gas stations daily.
 
2009-05-20 04:35:19 PM  
Mad-n-FL: We already have laws against price gouging during national emergencies.
A declared war (even on on "terror") is a national emergency.

Why have we not yet prosecuted the oil industries CEOs?


Because they are above the law.

Cup_O_Jo: As of yesterday. The car companies biatched they will not be able to sell the new fuel efficient cars unless gas prices are 4 dollars a gallon again. SO-testing in one to three...
/wonders when I turned into a female Dale Gribble.


Where did they say that? Why did they say that? It doesn't really make sense.
 
2009-05-20 04:35:27 PM  
Fark-the-Fnord Well NO not like that- it puts the lotion in the basket or gets the hose again...ACKkkkkkkkkkkk
 
2009-05-20 04:36:58 PM  
Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

fax?
 
2009-05-20 04:38:32 PM  
Tavernknight It was ALL over the place. ALL OVER. Car companies were saying we can make what ya want but how are we going to sell it. So there were all these financial papers saying the strategy to selling cars that do not need gas is to raise gas prices. It might have been Forbes who quoted a GM CEO as saying such. It was yesterday. I will find a citation for you if I can stop feeling like crap.
/has the flu or a cold
 
2009-05-20 04:42:07 PM  
oneodd1: heh.

It was just a bit of spittle =(
 
2009-05-20 04:44:27 PM  
A new album by the Postal Service is long overdue.
 
2009-05-20 04:44:50 PM  
"Profits are at record highs, so not so regretfully, we've had to raise prices." After all, triple-chinned Oil Execs need new yachts and homes in Monaco.

We're already closing in on $3 a gallon here in Southern California, I just saw a sign at a local Shell where regular was $2.79. Granted, we're getting extra hosed here in California by our utterly worthless state legislature. For instance, a few weeks ago, I filled up at the local Exxon for $2.45 for mid-grade, then drove to Yuma. Mid-grade at the Arco in Yuma was a full 40 cents cheaper, per gallon. The price at that Exxon has gone up nearly 30 cents a gallon since then, and it's one of the cheaper stations in the area (cheapest in OB seems to be the Arco, but its within 5c/gal of the Exxon, but they nail you 45 cents to use your debit card, where Exxon does not.

Thankfully, I'm about to put my motorcycle back on the road and shorten my daily commute to about 5 miles round trip, so I really don't care anymore.
 
2009-05-20 04:48:00 PM  
Okay, it was Bush's fault when this happened during his administration. Where are the calls for President Camacho's head over this now?
 
2009-05-20 04:49:24 PM  
Bukharin: Dancin_In_Anson: If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?


I can think of a couple:
/fax
//email
 
2009-05-20 04:49:53 PM  
slackinfux: Thankfully, I'm about to put my motorcycle back on the road and shorten my daily commute to about 5 miles round trip, so I really don't care anymore.

Except for the fact that nearly everything you consume requires oil to either make or transport, you've got it all figured out.

/ie, you should still care.
 
2009-05-20 04:52:56 PM  
GoodyearPimp: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Why wouldn't they *always* feel like it?


Same reason you cook a frog by gradually increasing the temperature. All at once, the frog has imminent cause for action and will hop out of the pot. Slowly, and he adjusts to each incremental increase until he dies.

Of course, in this case, there's no where really to jump but into another pot, and the oil companies control the politicians with the "lids" to those pots anyhow.

Face it folks, we're frogged.
 
2009-05-20 04:53:46 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


What is wrong with the postal service? Seriously, never mind the cliche's.
 
2009-05-20 05:01:17 PM  
CowboyNinjaD: Shadowknight: Dancin_In_Anson: If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.

I know. I hate such efficiency that they can get insane amount of personal and mass mail delivered with nearly 100% efficiency and within the promised time limit six times a week.

You can argue that they could easily go down to four times a week, but if you want to argue government inefficiency the post office really isn't where to look for it. For all the jokes about the post office and it's laziness, they really do an amazing job for the amount of post they need to move every freaking day.


It's not his fault. He's just making the typical, cliche, anti-government argument.

Like people who argue against a national health care system by comparing it to the DMV. You know, I've been a licensed driver since 1996. I think I've only had to go an actual office two or three times. I went once to get my temporary license and another time to take my test and get my real license.

Then I moved to another state in 2003 and had to physically go to an office to get my picture taken for my new license. Other than that, everything has been through the mail or over the Internet.

So yeah, the DMV, a true model of inefficiency.


But OMG they have LINES there. A HUGE one. A LINE!! I mean really, they should anticipate that EVERYONE will show up on their lunch break and just have like 50 people who work there for 2 hours a day, 7 days a week so there are no lines. THAT's efficiency.

/sarcasmic
 
2009-05-20 05:04:40 PM  
NaziKamikaze: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Why should the postal service be profitable? It should do what it does satisfactorily and on budget. It's not a business, but it's necessary to a nation.


Whoa, dude, do you want to give the whackadoodles a heart attack? If they keel over from you telling them that profit at all cost doesn't matter, then who will we make fun of in future threads?
 
2009-05-20 05:10:24 PM  
starfliz: NaziKamikaze: Dancin_In_Anson: Bukharin: Is there a better way to send a sheet of paper cross country for 40-something cents?

No, but there are ways that are profitable and don't require massive government subsidy.

Why should the postal service be profitable? It should do what it does satisfactorily and on budget. It's not a business, but it's necessary to a nation.

because if they are not profitable then they are stealing my money for something I don't want and could be better served by privatization. Lets pay to have a service that feeds the ducks. hey.. 'its providing a service'! Really, the biggest problem is how the laws block privatization now.


Wow, you are retarded beyond all hope.
 
2009-05-20 05:29:50 PM  
Prices for mid-grade (89 octane) gasoline during my last few fill-ups here in western NC:

May 20 - $2.439
May 18 - $2.399
May 9 - $2.299
Apr 25 - $2.119
Apr 16 - $2.099
Mar 29 - $2.189
Mar 19 - $1.999
 
2009-05-20 05:33:58 PM  
Headso: yeah and don't buy any food or goods where oil was used in the production or shipping. problem solved the "conservative" way.

Well, when gas was over $4 we changed a lot of things that reduced our expenses to offset the increase. Funny thing was we actually spent less when we started paying attention to the details of where the money was going.

Bukharin: "The U.S. Postal Service concluded fiscal 2005 with a net income of $1.4 billion on record revenue of $70 billion and record volume of 212 billion mail pieces."

How are they doing now?
 
2009-05-20 05:38:20 PM  
GanjSmokr: Except for the fact that nearly everything you consume requires oil to either make or transport, you've got it all figured out.

Simple solution: Consume less, and buy things that are minimally shipped.
 
2009-05-20 05:47:52 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: How are they doing now?

http://blog.taragana.com/n/ups-expected-to-post-lower-1q-profit-as-soft-shippin g -demand-continues-in-weak-economy-33941/

Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters, on average, expect UPS to earn 56 cents per share on revenue of $11.4 billion for the first quarter.
 
2009-05-20 05:48:36 PM  
These threads are always a good way to see all the farkers who have not even the slightest Idea of how markets work. You have a very important commodity, volume available has not gone up much at all in recent years. Demand remains high and always goes higher in the summer. And yet the price goes up and they biatch and moan and engage in their three minutes of hate at the "greedy" oil companies.

Meanwhile, nearly every other major industry has higher profit margins and has raised their prices more than the oil companies in the last ten years.

/But its all OK Farkers, If you don't like the energy prices now, just wait till cap and trade.
 
2009-05-20 05:51:40 PM  
Bukharin: Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters, on average, expect UPS to earn 56 cents per share on revenue of $11.4 billion for the first quarter.

Expectations. (Link to blog didn't work)

Reality. $2.8 Billion deficit last year.
 
2009-05-20 05:53:38 PM  
The Icelander: Simple solution: Consume less, and buy things that are minimally shipped.

Okay.
You tell my wife to consume less.
Seriously.
I dare you.

Oh... and "minimally shipped" ... how the hell do you "minimally ship" something from China to the US?

That's like the bottlers of Fiji Water trying to convince you that their water is a "green" product.
 
2009-05-20 05:56:48 PM  
The Icelander: GanjSmokr: Except for the fact that nearly everything you consume requires oil to either make or transport, you've got it all figured out.

Simple solution: Consume less, and buy things that are minimally shipped.


I agree with the consume less, and "minimally shipped" works great if everything you purchase is locally produced. In most places, this is not the case.

Is there a factory that produces computer parts in your area, or are those items shipped in?

Does your area support the growing of every fruit and vegetable available?

Do you ever buy CDs? Do they make those locally?

Ever buy a TV or other appliance? Do they make those locally?

You get the idea.
 
2009-05-20 06:00:10 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Reality.

http://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/CA6653670.html
"On the supply chain and freight side, revenue was down 19.8 percent at $1.75 billion, while operating profit was down much more at 64.6 percent at $40 million."

Reality. Profits are down, but not negative.
They are doing ok.

Lets stay on the topic you originally brought up about the USPS not being profitable and requiring "massive government subsidy."

Wrong on both accounts.
 
2009-05-20 06:10:28 PM  
Bukharin: Lets stay on the topic you originally brought up about the USPS not being profitable and requiring "massive government subsidy."

They lost $2.8 billion last year. That is not profitable no matter how you slice it.

And no, they haven't received subsidy, I was wrong. Let hope it stays that way.
 
FZ6
2009-05-20 06:11:56 PM  
This may have been said, but I'm way too lazy to read through everything...

Oil has gone up. Is there a reason for it? Nope. It just goes up and down.

Refineries have to buy oil to REFINE into a finished product such as gasoline and diesel. Input (oil) goes up - output (gas) goes up.

Also, this is Atlanta - home of low sulfur, low RvP gas. It's ALWAYS high in Atlanta, because IT COSTS MORE TO MAKE THE GAS.

Final lesson of the day - yes, it's summer, so the price is going up, because demand is going up. It just so happens that gasoline is one of the few products that costs more to make (more strict RVP regulations in warmer months) at the same time that demand goes up.

//The more you know.
 
2009-05-20 06:15:40 PM  
Link (new window)


OK.. These rising prices are nothing more than speculation coming into the futures market AND exceedingly low refinery output. If you look at the above tables, LAST YEAR at this time most areas of the country had MORE supply of refined gasoline than they do today.

Let me say that again, at $4 a gallon, there was more refined gas than there is currently, when there is over 100 million barrels of oil AT sea on tankers. Meanwhile refiner's are in the low 80% capacity, and likely even lower with this weeks "fires".
I don't agree with nationalization, but this

This is CRAP, Suddenly this week two refinery fires, Nigerea goes Ape shiat again, and another country declares "force majerie". This is nothing more than creating an artificial supply shortage to increase the bottom line.

Doubt anyone will read this info, this far down in the thread tho..
 
2009-05-20 06:23:37 PM  
Time and Time again, we have seen... Who really wins? Maybe we should try a different approach than that of Greed.
 
2009-05-20 06:30:41 PM  
oxen.trot: Maybe we should try a different approach than that of Greed.

Okay. You first.
 
2009-05-20 06:38:18 PM  
ineedanap: Link (new window)


OK.. These rising prices are nothing more than speculation coming into the futures market AND exceedingly low refinery output. If you look at the above tables, LAST YEAR at this time most areas of the country had MORE supply of refined gasoline than they do today.

Let me say that again, at $4 a gallon, there was more refined gas than there is currently, when there is over 100 million barrels of oil AT sea on tankers. Meanwhile refiner's are in the low 80% capacity, and likely even lower with this weeks "fires".
I don't agree with nationalization, but this

This is CRAP, Suddenly this week two refinery fires, Nigerea goes Ape shiat again, and another country declares "force majerie". This is nothing more than creating an artificial supply shortage to increase the bottom line.

Doubt anyone will read this info, this far down in the thread tho..


Some of us are slow readers.
Apparently there are a lot of slow learners out there.
Big oil owns the world body and soul.
You keep threatening their domination and you will not like the resultant social conflict, financial pressure tactics and military actions instigated to preserve the strangle hold on THE MONEY.
 
2009-05-20 06:40:14 PM  
No. You first.
 
2009-05-20 06:51:40 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: They lost $2.8 billion last year. That is not profitable no matter how you slice it.

And no, they haven't received subsidy, I was wrong. Let hope it stays that way.


Listen dude, many companies lost last year. Even a casino loses once in a while.

You are trying to suggest the USPS is a soviet boogyman instead of the good example of working privatization it is by counting quarters of lost pennies and ignoring years of gained dollars.

You can quit gracefully or continue barking to the wind at someone in a more appropriate time zone. If you actually cared on this subject, you might try doing your own research and seeking carefully information that contradicts your preconceived ideas. Google is a good start, but a local or university library would be better.

Have a great evening.
 
2009-05-20 07:03:47 PM  
Most of the people in this thread are very stupid with a few exceptions (like FZ6).

Oil companies do not equal refiners. Oil prices do not equal gasoline prices. Oil demand does not equal gasoline demand.

Less demand for gasoline = refiners cut back production = lower profit margins per gallon produced = raise prices on gasoline to maintain profit margins.

The cost of oil accounts for roughly one quarter to one half of a refiner's total cost. So if oil were free, your gasoline would still be in the $1-1.25/gallon range.
 
FZ6
2009-05-20 07:29:38 PM  
jfsimpson: Most of the people in this thread are very stupid with a few exceptions (like FZ6).

Thanks! :)

Oil companies do not equal refiners. Oil prices do not equal gasoline prices. Oil demand does not equal gasoline demand.

Less demand for gasoline = refiners cut back production = lower profit margins per gallon produced = raise prices on gasoline to maintain profit margins.

The cost of oil accounts for roughly one quarter to one half of a refiner's total cost. So if oil were free, your gasoline would still be in the $1-1.25/gallon range.


There will be none of that logic going on here.

Ha - all kidding aside, I think people forget that even when gasoline was in the $1.50 range, the government was taking roughly a third of that in taxes. Actually, a little more. It's just amusing to me how little people know (or care to know) about how this stuff actually works, yet they feel the need to really, really complain about it.

Want something to complain about? Go yell to your Congressman about the new Renewable Fuel Standard bill that just came out. The expectations are ridiculous, and the burden on refineries is insane. All of this nonsense about "energy security"? Like Hell. It's just going to make it to where some of the refineries in the states have to shut down and the US has to import gasoline - yeah, that's helping.

Oh, and by the way - right now the EPA is trying to make a motion (thanks Carol Browner!) to put E-15 on the market. The kicker about that? Most cars won't be able to handle the change in oxygen levels. And it's going to screw things up such as (but not limited to): certain motorcycles, boats, other marine watercraft, snowmobiles/dirtbikes.

But yeah - it's the evil people giving us gasoline to get to our jobs every day. Makes sense - let's regulate the hell out of them to a sick amount (to the fact that under the even more ridiculous carbon credit system, refineries are only going to be alloted 2% of the credits) to where they have to shut down and more American jobs are lost.

Yep - makes perfect sense. Sigh.

Articles like this make me sad. :(
 
2009-05-20 07:33:43 PM  
To borrow and ruin a bit from Futurama: America, you've been driving too much, or not enough. I forget how it works with you. The point is, you haven't been driving the exact right amount.
 
2009-05-20 08:00:37 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

If you like the postal service, you'll love nationalized oil.


treat them like other utilities. regulate them and allow them a profit but no speculation and no price gouging.
 
2009-05-20 08:04:29 PM  
Not that demand is up or down so much.

Rather...

"Oil is freaking hard to find, you know. We've been looking. And the spots we're finding it are three miles below seabeds or in wartorn countries. We've spent billions. And we've been finding less, year-on-year, pretty much since Eisenhower was in office. We've been pumping more oil than we've been discovering on an annual basis, worldwide, since the early 1980s. This is a problem. Meanwhile, thanks to global de-leveraging, we're having a hell of a time getting enough money to go chasing those amazingly obscure and expensive small pockets of oil that are left. Yes, we made billions in the last few years. And gave most of them to our shareholders. Because, if we didn't give them 15% annual returns, they would have taken their money to Bernie Madoff or invested in mortgage-backed securities."
 
2009-05-20 08:33:51 PM  
FZ6: But yeah - it's the evil people giving us gasoline to get to our jobs every day. Makes sense - let's regulate the hell out of them to a sick amount (to the fact that under the even more ridiculous carbon credit system, refineries are only going to be alloted 2% of the credits) to where they have to shut down and more American jobs are lost.

Those "evil people" you're talking about are making record profits on the backs of a lot of people and businesses who are having a very hard time making ends meet right now. At a time when things are economically on the ropes in this country, the oil companies are raping us because they know they can get away with it.
 
2009-05-20 08:34:21 PM  
CowboyNinjaD: Shadowknight: CowboyNinjaD: It's not his fault. He's just making the typical, cliche, anti-government argument.

Like people who argue against a national health care system by comparing it to the DMV. You know, I've been a licensed driver since 1996. I think I've only had to go an actual office two or three times. I went once to get my temporary license and another time to take my test and get my real license.

Then I moved to another state in 2003 and had to physically go to an office to get my picture taken for my new license. Other than that, everything has been through the mail or over the Internet.

So yeah, the DMV, a true model of inefficiency.

The DMV here in Virginia can be pretty atrocious, but I think it has more to do with the workers than the government involvement. They seem to hate the fact that their entire job is set up around giving everyone a hard time, pushing paperwork, and taking bad pictures while people blink.

But as you said, I can do almost everything online these days, once you're in the system, so it's not that painful anymore.


When I moved to Florida (the worst place in the world as far as Fark is concerned), they actually let me make an appointment to get my license changed over. So I show up, get my picture taken, take an eye exam and they hand me my new license. The whole thing took about 10 minutes.

I've moved several times within the state since then, and every time I need to get a new card or update my registration, I do it over the Internet.

I'm sure there are valid reasons for actually going into the DMV offices but I suspect that 90 percent of the people there are just old, foreign or stupid.


In Ohio, the only times I have to go the BMV are to either renew my driver's license or transfer my registration to a new car. They do allow address changes and registration renewals online. If Ohio allowed online renewal for driver licenses, I wouldn't have to go their offices at all, except to register a new car which is a rare occurrence for me.

But the Ohio BMV is amazingly efficient for a government operation. I can walk in, go up to the counter, give them my old license, take the eye test, pay the fee, sign a couple of papers, get my picture taken and walk out the door with my freshly minted license in under 15 minutes. They don't even make you fill out any forms. If only the rest of the government were as efficient.
 
2009-05-20 09:07:08 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: lajimi: I don't much care for $4.00+ a gallon gas and these greedy bastiges jumping the price whenever they feel like it.

Then don't buy it.


I guess all of needs and foods arrive by some sort of magic fairy?
 
2009-05-20 09:07:50 PM  
SherKhan: fax

You're so right. Efficiency be damned!
 
2009-05-20 09:29:12 PM  
Translation: "Prices are down, so we've regretfully had to raise prices."
 
2009-05-20 09:49:01 PM  
Greenville,SC gas prices for regular on May 1st was $1.78 and now it is $2.19. Grab your lube and bend over....
 
2009-05-20 09:49:41 PM  
justtray: Also the Oil Companies aren't monopolies so much as oligopolies. There are very few of them. The problem then arises like it has that when they collude, it is bad for the economy. If they actually competed with one another, it may not be so bad.

Where's the conservative outrage over the free market? Oh yeah, I forgot, they cherry pick their free market support.


Plenty of outrage. But, what can you do? The Fed investigated the energy crisis in Ca. For six months and the result was, "free market at work, not enough supply," and closed the case. Another six months, Enron blows up and everybody has power again.

The Fed has investigated gas fixing numerous times and found nothing wrong. Yet, my buddy gets a call every morning for the last twenty years telling him what to sell his gas for or he doesn't get anymore.
 
2009-05-20 10:08:05 PM  
DIGITALgimpus: SherKhan: Whatever. Just let's not get distracted from weening ourselves off oil again. I'm looking at you Zombie Reagan.

Zombie Reagan sold out to opec before anyone even realized what was going on. Not his fault exactly. The Republican party since the 80's have been very much against moving away from oil since their base is heavily invested. Still is.

That said... gas prices always climb in the spring as they convert the refineries to produce summer grade gas. Happens in the late summer/ early fall again for winter grade gas season.



This does not happen in the PacNW any longer. We get "winter grade" E10 all year 'round now. However, even with the constant grade, our prices still fluctuate with the seasons. People historically drive more during the spring and summer months, so the gas companies are raising their prices to match the expected increase in demand. However, with the economy circling the drain, I think we'll see prices drop again soon as companies realize that demand falls off when people can no longer afford their product. People will be driving less this summer than last, due to only half of the population actually having a job.

/Has a job
//Will be driving more
///Looks forward to fewer people on the road this year
 
2009-05-20 10:32:45 PM  
Here we are in the "Worst economy in 50 years!!!" and oil prices are going up. Gonna be fun buying gas if/when the economy turns around.
 
2009-05-20 11:36:40 PM  
just wait until it hits the anus
 
2009-05-21 01:51:13 AM  
So many corporations with a strangle hold on your lives. But you'll keep fighting for them.
 
2009-05-21 09:29:05 AM  
TheShavingofOccam123: treat them like other utilities. regulate them and allow them a profit but no speculation and no price gouging.

That was how it used to be but somebody undid all the regulation. Oh now I see it was this.
Link (new window)
 
2009-05-21 10:04:37 AM  
Wizzin: Here we are in the "Worst economy in 50 years!!!" and oil prices are going up. Gonna be fun buying gas if/when the economy turns around.

1.) Buy a diesel car
2.) Fill with homemade biodiesel
3.) Profit

Cars are a luxury, not a right. This is like purchasing a big LCD TV but not wanting to pay for service or electricity. You want the convenience? Pay to play.
 
2009-05-21 11:26:35 AM  
Magics5RIP: Wizzin: Here we are in the "Worst economy in 50 years!!!" and oil prices are going up. Gonna be fun buying gas if/when the economy turns around.

1.) Buy a diesel car
2.) Fill with homemade biodiesel
3.) Profit

Cars are a luxury, not a right. This is like purchasing a big LCD TV but not wanting to pay for service or electricity. You want the convenience? Pay to play.


I'm not so sure about that. People being able to move great distances quickly is a pretty important part of our economy. The last thing that needs to happen now is to make it more expensive to go to work.
 
2009-05-21 11:46:54 AM  
justtray: justtray


The long answer is that just because price goes up and people buy less, that doesn't make a good elastic. You seem to completely have misunderstood what I wrote. Price goes up, but demand does not drop significantly because people still need or want the product, in this case need. They may drive less often, but they don't drop their consumption in the same way they would for another, more elastic good.

Yes gas is an INELASTIC good. To say anything otherwise is simply not correct. Please see the above paragraph if you still don't understand. I'm guessing you don't because you didn't the first time. It's ok, economics is hard, stupid people just can't understand it.

So in conclusion, YOU don't know what inelastic means, sadly.



When one is as uninformed as yourself, it is not a debate. It is me lecturing to a fool.


You spoke of inelasticity in terms of "demand". You misuse a term of art and then attempt to lecture another on econ. Whatever you say frkko.


You're stating that demand for gasoline has not dropped significantly since prices went up. Really? Seriously?


If you studied Econ at all (or ever) I'm guessing you did it years ago....back when economists believed that the quantity demanded for gas was in fact inelastic. Trends over the last three years have shown this is not the case.


Here's the deal from someone who actually has studied this stuff: Gasoline is one of the only goods that has both inelastic and elastic qualities. In the short term it is inelastic as people are tied to their quantity demanded via their cars, but long term it is quite elastic as consumers change their habits to conform with prices. You don't have to take my word for it. It's happening right now before your very eyes.


The source of your own confusion is your imprecise use of the language and lack of knowledge of which you speak. Also, you need to mix in a more up-to-date econ book.
 
2009-05-21 12:36:58 PM  
there4igraham:

SherKhan: fax

You're so right. Efficiency be damned!


Bits and bytes aren't paper. He specifically said sheet of paper.
 
2009-05-21 02:02:05 PM  
READ AND LEARN noobs

Why do gasoline prices fluctuate?
Even when crude oil prices are stable, gasoline prices normally fluctuate due to factors such as seasonality and local retail station competition. Additionally, gasoline prices can change rapidly due to crude oil supply disruptions stemming from world events, or domestic problems such as refinery or pipeline outages.

Seasonality in the demand for gasoline - When crude oil prices are stable, retail gasoline prices tend to gradually rise before and during the summer, when people drive more, and fall in the winter. Good weather and vacations cause U.S. summer gasoline demand to average about 5 percent higher than during the rest of the year. If crude oil prices remain unchanged, gasoline prices would typically increase by 10-20 cents from January to the summer.

Changes in the cost of crude oil - Events in crude oil markets were a major factor in all but one of the five run-ups in gasoline prices between 1992 and 1997, according to the National Petroleum Council's study, U.S. Petroleum Supply - Inventory Dynamics. About 47 barrels of gasoline are produced from every 100 barrels of crude oil processed at U. S. refineries, with other refined products making up the remainder.

Crude oil prices are determined by worldwide supply and demand, with significant influence by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC). Since it was organized in 1960, OPEC has tried to keep world oil prices at its target level by setting an upper production limit on its members. OPEC has the potential to influence oil prices worldwide because its members possess such a great portion of the world's oil supply, accounting for about 40 percent of the world's production of crude oil and holding more than two-thirds of the world's estimated crude oil reserves. Additionally, increased demand for gasoline and other refined products in the United States and the rest of the world is also exerting upward pressure on crude oil prices.

Rapid gasoline price increases have occurred in response to crude oil shortages caused by, for example, the Arab oil embargo in 1973, the Iranian revolution in 1978, the Iran/Iraq war in 1980, and the Persian Gulf conflict in 1990. Gasoline price increases in recent years have been due in part to OPEC crude oil production cuts, turmoil in key oil producing countries, and problems with petroleum infrastructure (e.g., refineries and pipelines) within the United States. Additionally, increased demand for gasoline and other petroleum products in the United States and the rest of the world is also exerting upward pressure on prices.

Product supply/demand imbalances - If demand rises quickly or supply declines unexpectedly due to refinery production problems or lagging imports, gasoline inventories (stocks) may decline rapidly. When stocks are low and falling, some wholesalers become concerned that supplies may not be adequate over the short term and bid higher for available product. Such imbalances have occurred when a region has changed from one fuel type to another (e.g., to cleaner-burning gasoline) as refiners and marketers adjust to the new product. Gasoline may be less expensive in one summer when supplies are plentiful vs. another summer when they are not. These are normal price fluctuations, experienced in all commodity markets. However, prices of basic energy (gasoline, electricity, natural gas, heating oil) are generally more volatile than prices of other commodities. One reason is that consumers are limited in their ability to substitute between fuels when the price for gasoline, for example, fluctuates. So, while consumers can substitute readily between food products when relative prices shift, most do not have that option in fueling their vehicles.
 
2009-05-21 06:44:48 PM  
Bukharin: You are trying to suggest the USPS is a soviet boogyman

No I am saying that they are not a well run organization.

TheShavingofOccam123: regulate them and allow them a profit but no speculation and no price gouging.

Why? And just what is price gouging?

vabeard: I guess all of needs and foods arrive by some sort of magic fairy?

Dancin_In_Anson: Well, when gas was over $4 we changed a lot of things that reduced our expenses to offset the increase. Funny thing was we actually spent less when we started paying attention to the details of where the money was going.

In other words, we bought a lot less of the product. Try it sometime.
 
2009-05-21 09:29:58 PM  
Solution: Take bus, bike or share a car.

Gasoline prices will continue to rise forever, get used to the idea and get ahead by adjusting your habits now.
 
2009-05-21 09:31:05 PM  
lajimi: If demand stays the same the prices will jump. Maybe it's time to nationalize the oil industry.

/Back to over $4.00 a gallon by July.


WOOO!!!

/Wait what? I'm not sure how that will solve anything.
 
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