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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   One good thing about the economy is that it's bankrupting a lot of HOAs because nobody can afford to pay the dues. "When I tell you it is an unadulterated nightmare out there, I mean it"   (tampabay.com) divider line 167
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14331 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 May 2009 at 1:27 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-05-18 12:02:47 AM  
good think it is raining tonight, now the HOA can save some money on postage telling me to water my lawn.
 
2009-05-18 01:28:12 AM  
HOA's should die an ignoble death.
 
2009-05-18 01:31:51 AM  
HOAs are full of retired assholes, and biatchy housewives that think they are important because they run their little own Auschwitz.
 
2009-05-18 01:32:32 AM  
HOAs are both good and bad. News are 11.
 
2009-05-18 01:33:51 AM  
News AT 11. Although, this being FARK I guess the original is OK too.

Off to get another beer.
 
2009-05-18 01:37:23 AM  
I love how the HOA is all upset that people skip payments. FTFA: "But I have suggested that people who don't pay need to consider doing that. Sell their flat-screen TVs."

Very Mafia-eqsue: Lost your job, Fark you, pay me. Can't pay rent, Fark you, pay me. Going bankrupt, Fark you, pay me.

I have had a very hard time understanding why people move to condos. They are like apartments, but with even more of a hassle. My apartment mows my grass and fixing anything that breaks, it cost me nothing extra. Granted, I can't sell my apartment, but good luck selling your condo in this economy anyway.

HOA are stupid.
 
2009-05-18 01:38:08 AM  
WildMonkey: HOAs are full of retired assholes, and biatchy housewives that think they are important because they run their little own Auschwitz.

This.

Man do I hate my Co-op board.
 
2009-05-18 01:38:32 AM  
At least half of the time, members pay up when they realize that the association could ultimately seize their home over a debt of $300 or $400.

"You can give up one Starbucks a week and pay that," Tankel said.


Geez, what are you people drinking at Starbucks?

But far be it from me to assume that people who run HOAs have no clue how the commoners work.
 
2009-05-18 01:38:43 AM  
From TFA;

"Not surprisingly, lawyers advise boards to use the legal process, beginning with a series of warning letters. At least half of the time, members pay up when they realize that the association could ultimately seize their home over a debt of $300 or $400.

"You can give up one Starbucks a week and pay that," Tankel said."


OK, is this guy getting hookers at Starbucks? One Starbucks a week adds up to $300 or $400 ??
 
2009-05-18 01:40:50 AM  
FTA: About 30 percent of her neighbors are not paying the $228 monthly fee. "In our community, it covers cable and water," she said. Dues also pay to landscape the grounds and repair the roof.

that's a lot of water. can't see the mgt. co. lowering their fee...
 
2009-05-18 01:41:04 AM  
HOA's and credit card companies both make you sign your rights away for little or no benefit.

Of couse...if you don't like HOAs, don't join them.
 
2009-05-18 01:41:56 AM  
Is it possible to construct a violin small enough for these people?
 
2009-05-18 01:42:18 AM  
HOA's are almost as Evil as the RIAA. Almost.
 
2009-05-18 01:43:46 AM  
WildMonkey: HOAs are full of retired assholes, and biatchy housewives that think they are important because they run their little own Auschwitz.

Eva:

The Goebels wish to paint their unit blue dear.

Adi:

THAT COLOR IS VERBOTEN!!!

www.dfwelitecarclub.com
 
2009-05-18 01:44:04 AM  
you_idiot: From TFA;

"Not surprisingly, lawyers advise boards to use the legal process, beginning with a series of warning letters. At least half of the time, members pay up when they realize that the association could ultimately seize their home over a debt of $300 or $400.

"You can give up one Starbucks a week and pay that," Tankel said."


OK, is this guy getting hookers at Starbucks? One Starbucks a week adds up to $300 or $400 ??


They took the quote out of context, obviously. He likely was commenting on one particular case where the HOA dues were $50-75/month. If he's a lawyer, he knows the prices at Starbucks. I may be the only one left in practice who doesn't drink that crap. Er, wonderful beverage. (Watch out for the 'bucks mafia.)
 
2009-05-18 01:44:52 AM  
I would run the best HOA ever.

Dues would be limited to:

1. BYOB to meetings, if you want.

2. A whip round everytime something important needed fixed, like the comunity keggerator.

3. Taking care of your damn lawn. Don't have to mow it, or even have grass. Just has to look nice or 'volunteers' will 'help' it look nice. And by that I mean it will be a mildly disatisfactory solution, like a small plot of feed corn we tell you is sweet corn, possibly with non-pot hemp seeds randomly in there just to mess with ya more.
 
2009-05-18 01:46:48 AM  
The hoa at my neighborhood took a photo of my lawn and mailed it to my landlord
/ they can suck it hard
 
2009-05-18 01:50:47 AM  
Britney Spear's Speculum: HOA's and credit card companies both make you sign your rights away for little or no benefit.

Of couse...if you don't like HOAs, don't join them.


of course, if you move into an area where it is required(which is the case anywhere built post 1980 ive looked for homes in recently), you're kinda out of luck
 
2009-05-18 01:51:04 AM  
wabash13: The hoa at my neighborhood took a photo of my lawn and mailed it to my landlord

You had a red ball in the front yard, didn't you, DIDN'T YOU?!?

/oh the huge manatee
 
2009-05-18 01:55:59 AM  
Want to really piss off the HOA? Build a windmill and launch it into space.

/obscure
 
2009-05-18 02:02:09 AM  
Most HOA's are run by idiots who love to spend other people's money. My rough guess is that about 50% of the typical expenses are for goods and services that no homeowner would buy if they were spending their own money.

Here's an idea: If owners are having trouble paying the assessment - lower the assessment.

/ Cut spending
// Smaller government too
/// my lawn - off
 
2009-05-18 02:02:09 AM  
FTFA: At least half of the time, members pay up when they realize that the association could ultimately seize their home over a debt of $300 or $400.

"You can give up one Starbucks a week and pay that," Tankel said.


Holy shiat how much does Starbucks cost these days? If you're spending this much there per month you're a douchebag no matter how rich you are.
 
2009-05-18 02:02:34 AM  
This is happening in my SW FL neighborhood right now. Basically, out of sixty units only ten are paying their HOA fees.
We have to pay for air conditioning to prevent mold (unless they are delinquent, the power company has no worry about mold then?), water, landscaping (for liability reasons), and insurance.
If we do not provide insurance, the government seizes the entire property.
One can do everything right and still lose their property and still owe the bank for their upside down mortgage in the promissory note state of Florida.
You can hate HOAs, but what really sucks is when media outlets give advice they are not qualified to give and it hurts so many people because it is giving them permission to cheat and steal from their neighbors.
Okay, I am stepping off my soap box. (Thanks for reading this far.)
 
2009-05-18 02:05:01 AM  
Come on guys! I don't mean to break up the HOA Bash-fest, but Home Owners Associations play a very important role in your life and you don't even notice it. Can you imagine a neighborhood where not all of the blinds on all the houses were required to be white? Or a condo building where people were allowed to have doormats? What if your neighbor decided to fly the American flag? Luckily we have HOAs to keep people like you and me safe from nightmare situations like that.
 
2009-05-18 02:05:27 AM  
HOA's are only a problem if you want to live on top of other people, move out to where you have a couple acres and the concept is completely foreign. Now that I'm not fighting traffic (switched to 9-6) my commutes only 35 minutes so there's no real downside apart from the lack of public transit for drinking at the bar.
 
2009-05-18 02:05:35 AM  
beavmetal: I have had a very hard time understanding why people move to condos.

1. If you enjoy an urban lifestyle, often condos are your only option. Single-family homes in a city environment are often very expensive if you can find one at all.

2. "Getting onto the property ladder"--i.e. buying *something* so that you can start accumulating equity. (This assumes a "normal" housing market, where houses appreciate at about the rate of general inflation, not the freefall we have now or the bubble market of 2002-2007.)

3. If you're single, or a young couple, and don't need a lot of space. Single-family houses tend to be bigger than condos. More space is more expensive to heat and buy furniture for, and more of a demand on your time to maintain and keep clean.

4. Outside maintenance--landscaping, snow removal, etc. Typically gets taken care of by the condo association rather than you having to do it yourself.

5. Bigger condo communities often offer access to shared community facilities like a gym, pool, tennis courts, and so forth, that would be unavailable or an extra expense to owners of single-family homes.

...that said, I'm shopping for a SFH myself, and I'm a single guy, mid 40s.
 
2009-05-18 02:07:19 AM  
HOA's are just excuses for people that have never had any power and been abused in their own lives to abuse and control others.

We live next door to a sue happy wench who has repeatedly filed lawsuits against people in our subdivision(not us). A few people have put up chain-link fences for dogs and you are only supposed to put up six foot wooden privacy fence. So she filed a lawsuit. Apparently she doesn't actually work and lives off of the money from various lawsuits she has filed against people and companies.

If anyone wants to come punch her in the kidneys a few times let me know.
 
2009-05-18 02:07:35 AM  
FTFA: "And no one's bailing them out."

img1.picturewizard.com
 
2009-05-18 02:08:18 AM  
An HOA or something like it is pretty much essential when it comes to condos and the like. But the quote in the article was pretty much dead on: Florida and other states have essentially privatized local government, and now the price is being paid.

I actually have a very positive feeling about well-managed, reformed HOAs, largely because of my own personal experiences with terrible ones. I can see where the institution has gone wrong, and still divine the intent as well as the perfectibility. The problem is their deed-restricted nature and eternal infringement on property rights. If people could opt out of them upon property purchase, the abuse and incompetence would be reduced by simple competition pressure.
 
2009-05-18 02:10:32 AM  
If the HOA doesn't get its tribute, it will put a lien on the house. When the bank takes it in foreclosure, the bank will have to pay it off so the bank can get clear title.
 
2009-05-18 02:19:14 AM  
When my father moved to the DC area in the 90's he moved into a HOA infested Townhouse.

The entire neighborhood was absolute garbage but everyone had to make sure that they had thier door the correct shade of brown....

a few years ago my father moved into a NON HOA infested neighborhood and suprisingly the neighborhood is kept in great shape by people just doing their own thing. No cars on blocks, no rundown decrepit houses, every thing looks good and no one has had any issues selling their house (well up until the economy went pbbbbbttt)
 
2009-05-18 02:23:44 AM  
geekbikerskum:
1. If you enjoy an urban lifestyle, often condos are your only option. Single-family homes in a city environment are often very expensive if you can find one at all.
I equated condos to apartments with more hassles, not a house.

2. "Getting onto the property ladder"--i.e. buying *something* so that you can start accumulating equity. (This assumes a "normal" housing market, where houses appreciate at about the rate of general inflation, not the freefall we have now or the bubble market of 2002-2007.) I get that and agreed that I cannot LEGALLY sell my apartment.

3. If you're single, or a young couple, and don't need a lot of space. Single-family houses tend to be bigger than condos. More space is more expensive to heat and buy furniture for, and more of a demand on your time to maintain and keep clean.Completely ration explanation...has nothing to do with apartments.

4. Outside maintenance--landscaping, snow removal, etc. Typically gets taken care of by the condo association rather than you having to do it yourself. File under things my apartment complex does without charging me extra.

5. Bigger condo communities often offer access to shared community facilities like a gym, pool, tennis courts, and so forth, that would be unavailable or an extra expense to owners of single-family homes. Yep, still gotta share stuff, just like in my apartment complex.

With an apartment:
I can move without having to resell if my neighbors suck.
I didn't need a deposit or down payment. Granted it is rare.
I'm not responsible for any internal maintenance, except cleaning.

I need a real good reason to change my opinion about condos and their HOAs. At this point I think apartments are better and HOAs suck.
 
2009-05-18 02:25:59 AM  
RamblinReck89: Come on guys! I don't mean to break up the HOA Bash-fest, but Home Owners Associations play a very important role in your life and you don't even notice it. Can you imagine a neighborhood where not all of the blinds on all the houses were required to be white? Or a condo building where people were allowed to have doormats? What if your neighbor decided to fly the American flag? Luckily we have HOAs to keep people like you and me safe from nightmare situations like that.

Obvious Troll is obvious
 
2009-05-18 02:27:55 AM  
"About 30 percent of her neighbors are not paying the $228 monthly fee. "In our community, it covers cable and water," she said. Dues also pay to landscape the grounds and repair the roof."



$228 a month for cable and water?

For fark's sake, are the using Evian for the plumbing?


My experience with a HOA was that they were tyrannical Nazi types who seemed to have nothing better to do than send you a threatening letter if you left your trashcan was visible from the street.

It was stupid. Ratting your neighbor out to the HOA was a way of spitting in their face if they did something to piss you off.
 
2009-05-18 02:28:47 AM  
adragontattoo: When my father moved to the DC area in the 90's he moved into a HOA infested Townhouse.

The entire neighborhood was absolute garbage but everyone had to make sure that they had thier door the correct shade of brown....

a few years ago my father moved into a NON HOA infested neighborhood and suprisingly the neighborhood is kept in great shape by people just doing their own thing. No cars on blocks, no rundown decrepit houses, every thing looks good and no one has had any issues selling their house (well up until the economy went pbbbbbttt)


You mean people, left alone, tend to do alright?
Say it aint so!
/Just mowed my neighbours lawn for 3 hours. With a weedwhacker. Tomorrow is raking and actual mowing.
//They've been gone for 6 weeks.
///Not an illegal alien, just poor college kid.
 
2009-05-18 02:33:44 AM  
The solution is obvious. Incorporate into a township or city and collect taxes. Leave the HOA in the dustbin of history.
 
2009-05-18 02:36:36 AM  
adragontattoo: When my father moved to the DC area in the 90's he moved into a HOA infested Townhouse.

The entire neighborhood was absolute garbage but everyone had to make sure that they had thier door the correct shade of brown....

a few years ago my father moved into a NON HOA infested neighborhood and suprisingly the neighborhood is kept in great shape by people just doing their own thing. No cars on blocks, no rundown decrepit houses, every thing looks good and no one has had any issues selling their house (well up until the economy went pbbbbbttt)



Yeah but DC is internationally known as a shiathole, so the presence of a HOA or not is basically irrelevant.
 
2009-05-18 02:41:20 AM  
crab66: HOA's are just excuses for people that have never had any power and been abused in their own lives to abuse and control others.

We live next door to a sue happy wench who has repeatedly filed lawsuits against people in our subdivision(not us). A few people have put up chain-link fences for dogs and you are only supposed to put up six foot wooden privacy fence. So she filed a lawsuit. Apparently she doesn't actually work and lives off of the money from various lawsuits she has filed against people and companies.

If anyone wants to come punch her in the kidneys a few times let me know.


Oh jeeze, another one?

My brother-in-law faced off against one of these kinds of people; they sue people, sometimes actually win, then use the winnings to sue other people, ultimately terrorizing an entire neighborhood. It must be some kind of mental illness.

You might want to think about moving, unless you have the money and wherewithal to win - even then, this may just make her angrier, and more likely to sue you again. These people are nuts.

In my brother-in-law's case, he was fighting for access to the main roadway that led to his new house. It is situated on a hill, and the guy was blocking it, he was close to getting it declared "his" as the land wasn't seeing usage (because he had blocked it off). To make a long story short, my brother-in-law spent a few years, $100K+, and a lot of long lost working hours driving a dump truck and operating other heavy equipment to pay for it all. In the end, the guy lost the lawsuit, my brother-in-law got his road, and then the guy died not too many months later of a heart attack.

The entire neighborhood celebrated, and my brother-in-law is considered a small kind of hero there.
 
2009-05-18 02:48:37 AM  
What happened with dollyman?
http://www.offroaders.com/news/Dolly-Man-Audi-Booted-APS.htm
 
2009-05-18 02:49:03 AM  
We have not actually been sued.

We are however thinking about putting up a fence(that is legal by the HOA standards). And since we share a property line with this woman we are going to have the land surveyed before we do it so if there is a dispute we have a leg to stand on.
 
2009-05-18 02:50:11 AM  
I've owned property with good HOA's and bad HOA's, and it's pretty simple to ferret out the good ones by looking for a few points:

1) Bylaws and/or requirements on property owners are relatively few. The minute someone passes something that requires a lawn to be at a certain height, bail on the property. Good HOA's meet bare minimum requirements, like mowing public areas, taking care of a pool, maintaining public parking lots, etc.

2) Always look for what I used to call a "citizen proposal" clause, although I'm sure there's a legal term for it. It allows for a certain percentage of residents, usually a supermajority of 60% or more, to propose amendments. We used it in one condo complex I lived in to get rid of our pool, which no one used, so we could replace it with a grilling/picnic area. We paid our usual dues for six months after we took out the pool to cover the cost of removal and then our monthly fees went down.

3) Make sure HOA elections take place at least once a year, and make sure there are provisions for removing members who are abusing the post. Most bad HOA's are corrupted by people who use them to steer work towards family companies. I had a board with a woman whose brother had the towing contract for the complex, and after two particularly nasty months of unjustified tows we booted her ass out. If there are no provisions for doing so, you don't want to be part of the HOA.

But really, the best thing you can do to improve any HOA is just to get involved, even in a limited capacity. I have yet to be part of an HOA that doesn't have to disclose what they spend the money on, and most places I've lived benefit from a monthly statement so people can see what they are paying for. If enough people want to cut a service to lower their fees, they usually organize pretty quick.

Be extremely wary of an HOA that is contracted out to people who do not live in the complex. At that point you have someone who only makes a profit if they find violations. It's like living with a hall monitor.
 
2009-05-18 02:51:01 AM  
abnormalia: News AT 11. Although, this being FARK I guess the original is OK too.

Off to get another beer.


We couldn't help but notice the word choice error in your post. While you may have corrected it, this is just a reminder that we here at Fark try to maintain high standards to ensure that our community is appealing to new comers. We appreciate your cooperation in this matter.
 
2009-05-18 02:52:13 AM  
cr0sh

Did you post about that before ? I seem to remember it, only longer, with more detail.
 
2009-05-18 02:54:27 AM  
belowner: I've owned property with good HOA's and bad HOA's, and it's pretty simple to ferret out the good ones by looking for a few points:

1) Bylaws and/or requirements on property owners are relatively few. The minute someone passes something that requires a lawn to be at a certain height, bail on the property. Good HOA's meet bare minimum requirements, like mowing public areas, taking care of a pool, maintaining public parking lots, etc.

2) Always look for what I used to call a "citizen proposal" clause, although I'm sure there's a legal term for it. It allows for a certain percentage of residents, usually a supermajority of 60% or more, to propose amendments. We used it in one condo complex I lived in to get rid of our pool, which no one used, so we could replace it with a grilling/picnic area. We paid our usual dues for six months after we took out the pool to cover the cost of removal and then our monthly fees went down.

3) Make sure HOA elections take place at least once a year, and make sure there are provisions for removing members who are abusing the post. Most bad HOA's are corrupted by people who use them to steer work towards family companies. I had a board with a woman whose brother had the towing contract for the complex, and after two particularly nasty months of unjustified tows we booted her ass out. If there are no provisions for doing so, you don't want to be part of the HOA.

But really, the best thing you can do to improve any HOA is just to get involved, even in a limited capacity. I have yet to be part of an HOA that doesn't have to disclose what they spend the money on, and most places I've lived benefit from a monthly statement so people can see what they are paying for. If enough people want to cut a service to lower their fees, they usually organize pretty quick.

Be extremely wary of an HOA that is contracted out to people who do not live in the complex. At that point you have someone who only makes a profit if they find violations. It's like living with a hall monitor.


Mine started out with people in the area and now it is run by an outside company. And you can't sell in this economy.

Yay!
 
2009-05-18 02:56:46 AM  
My apartment is great. Three swimming pools, two tennis courts, a fully equipped work-out room. The grounds are well maintained by professionals. On the rare occasion I've had a problem, they've dealt with it very quickly, e.g. in unit washer broke, they replaced both the washer and dryer two days later.

And the view from my balcony can't be beat.

I've considered buying a condo, but I can't stand the little nazis who end up in charge of HOAs and a house is way overkill for a single guy.
 
2009-05-18 03:00:54 AM  
cr0sh: My brother-in-law faced off against one of these kinds of people; they sue people, sometimes actually win, then use the winnings to sue other people, ultimately terrorizing an entire neighborhood. It must be some kind of mental illness.

I'm not the kind of person who would derive pleasure from making such a person's life inconvenient, but if I was, I'd probably do this:

Spread Ryegrass seed all over the irritant's lawn. It looks like shiat and it grows extremely fast. Anyone used to a weekly lawn cutting schedule will have to bump up the cut time to once every four or five days. If you're particularly ruthless mix in dandelion seeds.

But I'm not that person. No sir.
 
2009-05-18 03:00:58 AM  
My time in Colorado Springs taught me that developers don't give a fark about anything other than getting dipshiats with money to buy a house.

I saw ads for houses all the time with "features" like "view." I went to a few in my price range, and the view tended to be through the bathroom window when you sat arching your neck on the toilet, or if you stood on top of your car in the driveway.

I'd gaze at these neighborhoods--some built in the '70's and '80's, and vast numbers more being built in the early '00's--and wonder what galaxy-class retards (a)had the gall to ruin these potentially beautiful lots for short-term gain, and (b)who were the tens of thousands of dumbfarks who clamored to out-spend each other to own these ready-built crap-heaps with zero windows facing the mountains or plains.

If developers there had spent 5 seconds figuring where the view from a house might be...I think the worst consequence might've been that many houses had unorthodox relationships to the driveway--and if the streets had been properly planned, probably not even that. The majority of that city will need to be destroyed for most homes to have a decent view of the 14,000 foot peaks, or the endless plains. Most houses I visited there had excellent views of neighbors backyards or roofs.

So then come the HOA requirements that houses be painted specific colors that match the environment--well, if your view of the environment is of your neighbor's flame-painted lifted 4x4 and his trailer full of quads, shouldn't you be able to paint your house bright red with chrome gutters and have a flamed front door?

:) Hail Satan, Colorado Springs!
 
2009-05-18 03:01:40 AM  
beavmetal: With an apartment:
I can move without having to resell if my neighbors suck.
I didn't need a deposit or down payment. Granted it is rare.
I'm not responsible for any internal maintenance, except cleaning.


Are you seriously trying to compare renting an apartment to owning a condo?

With one, you actually own something; with the other, you don't. Even if the condo's value declines you still get something back on your monthly payments, as opposed to nothing. No matter how good your landlord is, renting from him/her still doesn't top owning under a HOA.
 
2009-05-18 03:03:08 AM  
FTFA: "You never know when you are going to meet Mister Doberman, or Mister 9-millimeter,"

Worth reading for that line alone.

/I'd add Mr Pissed-Off Tomcat
//Maybe that's just my neighbour
 
2009-05-18 03:08:19 AM  
Hold on to your hats....here we go....567 posts on how we hate HOAs....Why never to buy a house....why only to buy a condo...pissed off neighbors

we did this a few weeks ago and it was fun...

thanks
 
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