feckingmorons: This is the guy that has written down all his meals in those diaries for decades, right? The guy who kept hour by hour records of his days?

Graham recorded his diet, the television programs he watched, the amount of time he spent traveling, and even the amount of time he spent rewinding a videotape.

Yeah, that's normal. Whatever he says must be spot on.

Heh, writing down all of his actions is a good reason to disbelieve that he actually wrote down what he was doing during these "briefings". That, my friends, is what is called bullshiat.

Action Replay Nick: This is shaping up to be the second or third backfire of the GOP attempting to call in favors with the CIA in the form of outright lies.

Look, you guys seriously fail at being evil masterminds. Please just stop trying, and ruining the country in the process.



Maybe we should put more credence to the roumer that Cheney left moles in various agencies to frak things up every now and then

feckingmorons: skinnycatullus: feckingmorons: Yeah, that's normal. Whatever he says must be spot on.

So writing down what you are doing as you do it is not a good way of remembering what you've done?

Do you ever have a sane thought, or is it just batshiat crazy 24/7?

So writing down every meal every day for decades is normal?

If you say so rain man.

Did he lie about those meals or is he OCD? I bet he DIDN'T have pasta primavera on July 8, 1998! That liar!

Here's a fun little read from an article on the side: (Paul Begala Mr. Cheney, You Did Not Keep Us Safe)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/mr-cheney-you-did-not-kee_b_203013.ht m l

Great idea, CIA...

Invent a bunch of events and discussions involving a guy who writes everything he has ever done down in his diary. ...And is legendary for doing so.

God, the stupid...it burns.

thejoyofpi: I kind of love it when senior Congressmen of both parties confirm that the CIA lies to you. Every schizoid hobo in America was right all along. WAKE UP sheeple!!

The scariest and most damaging thing the previous administration did was to create a fresh, new crop of jihadists overseas and militia/survivalist nuts here at home.

When it turns out that the paranoid schizophrenic community nails it time and time again, you might have to admit you are living in bizarro world and that maybe this isn't as black and white of an issue as it appears.

Personally, I am just enjoying watching career FBI and career CIA mix it up. As anyone in the intelligence community knows already, torture does not produce actionable intelligence outside of the Fox Network. Watching them spin "what if" scenarios to cover their violations of international treaties makes for good lulz.

I don't care if we lick their toes or have them interviewed by naked supermodels or serve them tea until they decide maybe their holy leaders lied to them about how evil we are. We need to use the methods that work - torture has been proven not to work unless you are trying to get FALSE confessions.

And Cheney authorized the waterboarding specifically to force confessions of a link between AQ and Iraq, which never existed in reality, but was used continually to bolster support for the occupation.

The ONLY thing accomplished by this whole "war on Terror" scam was to divert billions in tax revenue to the private sector corporations that lobbied for the illegal invasion of Iraq and those tasty no-bid contracts Cheney threw to Haliburton.

Bush and Cheney had serious financial conflicts of interest before they entered office that should alone be enough to warrant convening a grand jury. From what I have seen and read, these men clearly betrayed America, it's principles, and it's people for personal wealth and power. They should be tried and executed here or extradited to the Netherlands.

The longer we wait to do this, the more politicians will get dragged down along with this.

Frank, Pelosi - you sleep with pigs, you get the swine flu.

Bucky Katt:
Graham was interviewed on NPR's All Things Considered today. Those guys qualify as librul MSM, right?

Yep. Now go look everywhere else. Pelosi. Pelosi. Even in the Pelosi articles, this isn't mentioned.

The MSM is corporate propaganda for the powers that be.

darkeyes: Here's a fun little read from an article on the side: (Paul Begala Mr. Cheney, You Did Not Keep Us Safe)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/mr-cheney-you-did-not-kee_b_203013.ht m l

One smirking partisan douchebag calling out another smirking partisan douchebag. Nothx.

As for the one briefing he did attend, the Florida Democrat said that he had "no recollection that issues such as waterboarding were discussed." He was not, per the sensitive nature of the matters discussed, allowed to take notes at the time.

No notes, no case. The whole defense is that the man took copious notes so he could remember. So we are trust his memory without notes, seven years later?

Pelosi couldn't even get her story straight at a press conference with written statements.

/Another strike out by the Nancy Boys

bulldg4life: GAT_00: Yeah, but datebooks can be falsified.

Did you miss the part where the CIA corrected themselves and agreed with the politician?

Did you miss the part where the politician "forgot" what he was briefed on? That's convenient.

Was this the same briefing that Pelosi has been sputtering about recently?

soy_bomb: As for the one briefing he did attend, the Florida Democrat said that he had "no recollection that issues such as waterboarding were discussed." He was not, per the sensitive nature of the matters discussed, allowed to take notes at the time.

No notes, no case. The whole defense is that the man took copious notes so he could remember. So we are trust his memory without notes, seven years later?

Pelosi couldn't even get her story straight at a press conference with written statements.

/Another strike out by the Nancy Boys

Keep trying.

This is why I believe Pelosi:

Gingrich: 'Absolute obligation' to investigate Pelosi (pop!)

feckingmorons: This is the guy that has written down all his meals in those diaries for decades, right? The guy who kept hour by hour records of his days?

A guy who meticulously documents his entire life is exactly the guy who should be trusted when it comes to names, dates, and events he was present for. You don't want some usual shmoe who only keeps brief notes and throws out or deletes his schedules.

Graham's statement provides Pelosi senior level support from the other side of the aisle and stabilizes Congress. The CIA is funded and regulated by Congress. Had Pelosi's "fight" with the CIA escalated and become politicized, it would have been a precedent both parties fear.

soy_bomb: As for the one briefing he did attend, the Florida Democrat said that he had "no recollection that issues such as waterboarding were discussed." He was not, per the sensitive nature of the matters discussed, allowed to take notes at the time.

No notes, no case. The whole defense is that the man took copious notes so he could remember. So we are trust his memory without notes, seven years later?

Pelosi couldn't even get her story straight at a press conference with written statements.

/Another strike out by the Nancy Boys

There were no notes about the non-existent meetings? Damn. What a liar.

I will sit on the ground and wait for a rumble.



Surely it will come.

buravirgil: Graham's statement provides Pelosi senior level support from the other side of the aisle and stabilizes Congress. The CIA is funded and regulated by Congress. Had Pelosi's "fight" with the CIA escalated and become politicized, it would have been a precedent both parties fear.

Well, Graham was pretty conservative but he was a Dem. Not across the aisle.

soy_bomb: As for the one briefing he did attend, the Florida Democrat said that he had "no recollection that issues such as waterboarding were discussed." He was not, per the sensitive nature of the matters discussed, allowed to take notes at the time.

No notes, no case. The whole defense is that the man took copious notes so he could remember. So we are trust his memory without notes, seven years later?

Pelosi couldn't even get her story straight at a press conference with written statements.

/Another strike out by the Nancy Boys

Well the CIA already LIED about 3 of the 4 meetings (you know the ones they made up), I think I will trust the other side on this one.

bulldg4life: Did you miss the part where the CIA corrected themselves and agreed with the politician?

I was supposed to read the article? Crap. I'm just tired of hearing about this. I assume everyone who was in office on the Intel Committee, in high power positions, or actually part of the Administration knew. They should have at least. If the CIA is lying, fark 'em and start replacing the staff as soon as you can while keeping the place competent. If the Admin/Senate knew, shoot them for treason for going along with it.

Gotta golf in the morning. Good night.

/Going to eat arugula with Dijon mustard on it as well.

Sgt Otter: Antonio_Talibanderas: Great idea, CIA...

Invent a bunch of events and discussions involving a guy who writes everything he has ever done down in his diary. ...And is legendary for doing so.

God, the stupid...it burns.

It kind of explains the whole "not being able to kill Castro for 40 years" thing.

/Operation Mongoose FTL.

Ya'd kinda think that this sort of info on Graham would come up in the CIA's routine background check for his high level security clearance. The guy logs everything he does. I'd think they'd at least be aware of it - and double check to see that there are no entries like this:

"Dear Diary, Laura Bush smiled at me today. God, she is so hot. I don't know what she sees in George. OMG, also, after eating a chicken sandwich for lunch, I found out that there really aren't WMDs in Iraq. But we're not gonna say anything because that would make it hard to bomb Saddam. Luv, Bob"

if it was credible, he wouldn't be going to huffpo to talk about it

feckingmorons: Just said that keeping diaries of your daily activities is a bit odd.

It's an appointment book. Now most people do it with blackberries, etc. People in business or government do it all the time. That's how they schedule and keep track of things. Not odd at all. I use to work in health care and I keep a log of activity to cover my ass.

These worthless farkin democrats are nothing but a bunch of liars. Pelosi, Dodd, hang em all from the biggest tree upside down so they piss on themselfs.

The CIA lie? Nevar!

feckingmorons: Kumana Wanalaia: feckingmorons: Where did I say he was a liar?

Yeah, that's normal. Whatever he says must be spot on.

I bolded it for you. Maybe you didn't realize you had the Sarcasm Lock key set, but that could read anywhere from impugning his faculties to questioning his honesty.

You got it right with "Impugning his faculties." You see I said right before that "Yeah, that's normal," not yeah, that is truthful.

There are several online dictionaries that are authoratative that you may find helpful in understanding the simple words used in day to day conversations.

Give. It. Up.

Deranger: This is why I believe Pelosi:

Gingrich: 'Absolute obligation' to investigate Pelosi

Investigate?

Republicans are actually stupid enough to say that word out loud these days?

I can think of a few things a moral America has an 'absolute obligation' to investigate.

HONDOWAYNE: Subtlety ain't exactly your strong suit.

Ten Bucks the good Sen. Graham has made a enemy of Rush Limbaugh and his army of slacked jawed yokels for diffusing a situation to potentially embarrass Speaker Pelosi.

Kumana Wanalaia: Investigate?

Republicans are actually stupid enough to say that word out loud these days?

I can think of a few things a moral America has an 'absolute obligation' to investigate.

Good thing we're no longer a moral nation, neh?

The CIA is just trying to CYA, particularly when it is shown exactly what they did or authorized others to do in Abu Grahib, Guantanamo, and who knows where the hell else when all this is over.

Right now I believe Graham and Pelosi, mainly because the spooks at the CIA couldn't tell the truth even if THEY were being waterboarded.

Reality check - if you had videotapes and photos taken during the interrogation that showed everything you did, and you assert that you did nothing illegal, then why on earth would you burn all of the copies of said tapes that should exonerate you?

This is enough for me to know that the CIA farked up and that they know it well. You don't try to cover up nothing. You don't try to deflect blame for something noble and kind you did onto a political enemy.

I'm just glad the administration didn't decide to stage another "terror attack" to convince us that Arabs are scary enough for us to abandon our common sense.

Really, that's the only way these war criminals CAN get away with this. If you only used transcripts of Cheney's talk show punditry over the past ten years, you could indict him in any state. He may still get off if that's all you got, but it's enough to get a grand jury seated and start the ball moving so we can get the warrants we need to search certain man-sized safes.

Sorry, Charlie! You do NOT get to hide behind your office when the only thing you did there was to abuse it for personal gain.

I may just have a couple of lawyer friends of mine draft an "opinion" that when international war criminals are being sheltered by a rogue state, it is acceptable to waterboard their family members and friends on television every night until they step forward to save their loved ones from "not torture".

You know, I don't blame the Arabs for trying to kill us - they are insane zealots who believe whatever their leaders tell them. But Americans are supposed to be better than that/ If my CO told me to "enhance" my interrogation techniques, I would tell him to eat a bag of dicks.

It's OK to kill them on the field, but once you have them at your mercy, there are rules. Rules we created to save American servicemen from what McCain had to endure.

How is this a political issue? It is a crime. The Nuremberg defense is invalid here as everywhere else, and soldiers are trained to refuse illegal orders from their immediate superiors and report it up the chain.

If you were a "good soldier" and "followed orders" Obama doesn't want to prosecute you - I do. Because your failure to uphold international treaties during wartime doesn't stop being a crime just because your opponent "wants to kill you".

The only reason to use the old Soviet techniques is to elicit false confessions and that's just what Cheney wanted - for some Curveball to cough up a story about how he had tea with Saddam Hussein a year ago.

The only way to move forward is to punish the guilty. If you do not prosecute these crimes, what is to prevent Obama from doing exactly the same thing to you?

me_the_farker: Ten Bucks the good Sen. Graham has made a enemy of Rush Limbaugh and his army of slacked jawed yokels for diffusing a situation to potentially embarrass Speaker Pelosi.

I'm thinking this little fiasco will just about finish off the Rush/Cheney wing of the GOP. They've been on the wrong side of this issue at every turn and the educated folks in the GOP (yes, there are..) are getting tired of swimming with an anchor.

What it looks like is that the CIA created documents at someone's request. Now, I wonder who that someone could be...?

Deranger: This is why I believe Pelosi:
Gingrich: 'Absolute obligation' to investigate Pelosi (pop!)

Gingrich, having stepped down as Speaker when an impeachment of Clinton failed, is looking to make political hay by mirroring Pelosi's own language. Pelosi took impeachment off the table but called for investigation. Gingrich and Cheney seem eager to exploit secrecy in partisan terms while the country is still at war, and in Cheney's case, recover an authority to define what secrets are necessary to maintain war.

feckingmorons:
You got it right with "Impugning his faculties." You see I said right before that "Yeah, that's normal," not yeah, that is truthful.

There are several online dictionaries that are authoratative that you may find helpful in understanding the simple words used in day to day conversations.

Dude, you're just making it worse. Haven't you been bolded humorously enough tonight?

Both parties (CIA and Pelosi) here have put themselves in untenable positions by forcing this public showdown. Now neither are credible on the issue.

For its part, the CIA lost all credibility on the issue of torture/waterboarding when they destroyed the tapes back in 2005. They may as well have just hung a sign on the door reading "yes, we have something to hide, please investigate us".

feckingmorons: You got it right with "Impugning his faculties." You see I said right before that "Yeah, that's normal," not yeah, that is truthful.

Um, hello, crackhead?

That's not what I bolded.

Read it again.

feckingmorons: Where did I say he was a liar?

Yeah, that's normal. Whatever he says must be spot on.

I bolded it for you. Maybe you didn't realize you had the Sarcasm Lock key set, but that could read anywhere from impugning his faculties to questioning his honesty.

You sure you want to get into this pissing match, already down two points and with the whole thread laughing at you?

Sabyen91: Well, Graham was pretty conservative but he was a Dem. Not across the aisle.

You're absolutely correct: Not across the aisle. Thanks.

Desterion: if it was credible, he wouldn't be going to huffpo to talk about it

HONDOWAYNE: These worthless farkin democrats are nothing but a bunch of liars. Pelosi, Dodd, hang em all from the biggest tree upside down so they piss on themselfs.



As much as I dislike huffpo, this story has now been confirmed by senior members on both sides of the aisle. Three of the four meetings simply did not happen... the fact that the CIA staked it's case on briefings in four meetings it claimed happened... kind of leads one to question the credibility of the CIA with respect to what was said at the fourth meeting.

At this point, it isn't a dem v. republican thing... the problem here is that there's pretty conclusive evidence that the CIA is lying about whether or not it has fulfilled it's duty to inform our democratically elected representatives about what they are doing. I don't understand how they could be so stupid about it though... almost every lawmaker has aides who keep appointment books and logs... without them, people have no idea where they are supposed to be, or who said what. The idea that the CIA thought they could get away with this as a lie is just... baffling. More seriously, there is also a question as to whether or not one (or more) CIA people knowingly filed false reports indicating briefings and approvals of their activities... if it is found that someone intentionally end-ran our checks and balances in their zeal to torture people, we need to deal with that in a very clear and stern manner.

me_the_farker: Ten Bucks the good Sen. Graham has made a enemy of Rush Limbaugh and his army of slacked jawed yokels for diffusing a situation to potentially embarrass Speaker Pelosi.

People, this is Bob Graham, ex-Senator from Florida. This is NOT Lindsey Graham, current Senator from South Carolina.

"Just said that keeping diaries of your daily activities is a bit odd."

Apparently you've never been in business, keeping a small diary to make sure you stay on track and have done everything you set out to do isn't unusual at all.
Also, lots of people use these things called notepads, you may want to check into that.....

feckingmorons: Kumana Wanalaia: feckingmorons: You got it right with "Impugning his faculties." You see I said right before that "Yeah, that's normal," not yeah, that is truthful.

Um, hello, crackhead?

That's not what I bolded.

Read it again.

feckingmorons: Where did I say he was a liar?

Yeah, that's normal. Whatever he says must be spot on.

I bolded it for you. Maybe you didn't realize you had the Sarcasm Lock key set, but that could read anywhere from impugning his faculties to questioning his honesty.

You sure you want to get into this pissing match, already down two points and with the whole thread laughing at you?

I'll try to make it simple for you because you obviously don't understand even the most basic sentences.

I think Bob Graham is nuts.
I don't think he lied.
I think he truly believes what he says.

Pelosi lies worse than a third grader. Her story changes more often than I change my shorts. She is not the only politican who lies, the vast majority of them do. Some do it better than others.

Down two points? Hmmm, I didn't know scores were being kept. I must be down more than the TARP bail out since I don't toe the liberal apologist line here on Fark.

Take another half dozen points off for just saying liberal apologist. (damn now 12)

To be clear, you are accusing Pelosi of lying about something that Bob Graham confirmed as accurate. Pelosi's version - though not communicated in an articulate way - was not dishonest.

You really need to just stop and think about why you feel like this is the appropriate place to go on and on about how big of a liar Pelosi is.. This thread is not the place.

Clearly you have an ax to grind. That's fine. But doing it here makes you look like a whining child.