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(Globe and Mail)   While in Israel, Pope calls for creation of Palestinian state, exchange of hilarious hats   (theglobeandmail.com) divider line 473
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3428 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2009 at 12:15 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-05-11 01:26:05 PM
Tatsuma:

...a tripod as a base, not a solid base.

www.nephos.com

All your base are belong to us.
 
2009-05-11 01:26:17 PM
FootInMouthDisease: Tatsuma Third, Israel is not a religious state

Ha.


it's not as if the israeli flag contains religious symbols.


www.rso.cornell.edu
 
2009-05-11 01:26:35 PM
Robot Devil's Advocate: /Also my phone's spell check hates your name.

Blame Fark for not allowing anything other than numbers and "normal" letters.
 
2009-05-11 01:27:02 PM
Tatsuma Because I don't like explaining very basic concepts.

Oh don't worry we know, wouldn't want to raise the bar too high for you, instead you have created your own reality, and bring it with you.

It's much easier to obfuscate, fabricate and modify then it is to suffer truth.
 
2009-05-11 01:27:06 PM
absoluteparanoia: Common tactic when someone deals a knockout punch in a debate is to just ignore that it was ever said. So I'm going to go ahead and quote it again, because that's where the debate ended.

No, that's not the case, he's just ignorant. I'm going to ignore his comment about Israel being a religious state not because, gosh darn, his "Ah!" proved me wrong. No, it's the fact that for someone to believe this, they have to be either braindead, incredibly anti-Israel or completely ignorant. I have time for none of them.
 
2009-05-11 01:27:20 PM
Tatsuma: It's not a conspiracy theory, the Menorah depicted on the arch of Titus was not, in fact, modelled on how the Menorah in the Temple is like.

For starters, the Menorah used in the Temple had a tripod as a base, not a solid base. We also have evidence of this outside of the Talmud, this is how it was depicted on the coins of the Hasmonean dynasty.

However, on the arch of Titus it wasn't the case, and there were other problems with the way it was pictured. There are several problems with its design, which is why I say it's incredibly likely that it was removed and hidden before the destruction of the Temple. This is the Jewish view.

However, even a fake real Menorah from the Temple is invaluable.


Cool stuff. Thanks.

BTW, do they make tin-foil kippahs?
 
2009-05-11 01:28:13 PM
Tatsuma: SherKhan: If land can be kept as spoils of war so too can menorahs.

If that's the rules of the game, fine, they can keep it

Smackledorfer: Odd that someone faithful enough to tell other jews they aren't real jews because of when they drive a car

I have never told that to anyone. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. If you were born from a halachicly Jewish mother, or were converted following Halacha, you're Jewish even if ch"vs you eat a shrimp cheeseburger on Shabbos while driving in your car.


so...is it OK for a jewish girl to marry and make babies with goyim?
 
2009-05-11 01:29:25 PM
The Arabs are cancer not only to Israel but wherever they settle down.
Not only do they populate like rabbits, but also they misuse the social welfare benefits of the countries they populate . Give them some basic freedoms and they will demand the destruction of the whole system. An implementation of Sharia and forced conversions. And a final point.

The leftist media has to be finished off because more than anything else its the biased media (that insists on calling these soldiers of death 'victims') that is reinforcing the ungrateful Palestinians into blowing themselves up like a load of camel poop.
 
2009-05-11 01:30:06 PM
Tatsuma: absoluteparanoia: Common tactic when someone deals a knockout punch in a debate is to just ignore that it was ever said. So I'm going to go ahead and quote it again, because that's where the debate ended.

No, that's not the case, he's just ignorant. I'm going to ignore his comment about Israel being a religious state not because, gosh darn, his "Ah!" proved me wrong. No, it's the fact that for someone to believe this, they have to be either braindead, incredibly anti-Israel or completely ignorant. I have time for none of them.


if you believe that a country with a great big religious symbol on its flag is a religious state, UR A NAZI.

/end of story
 
2009-05-11 01:30:21 PM
Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: it's not as if the israeli flag contains religious symbols.

Actually, the actual religious meaning of the Magen Dovid is quite obscure, even most religious Jews would probably have a hard time explaining it to you.
 
2009-05-11 01:30:50 PM
SherKhan: Tatsuma:

...a tripod as a base, not a solid base.

Image of Ratzinger raising the roof.

All your base are belong to us.


Dude, that caused some serious lulz. Thanks
 
2009-05-11 01:31:14 PM
Tatsuma No, it's the fact that for someone to believe this, they have to be either braindead, incredibly anti-Israel or completely ignorant.

Funny how whenever you are involved, these become the only options. Has it ever occurred to you how much of a blind eye your indoctrination requires to be turned to reality?

Especially to be so fervently attached to these relatively arbitrary customs and beliefs?

You have no platform with which to launch your next "attack," so you should likely slink off into the distance with your tail between your legs, and regroup.
 
2009-05-11 01:31:41 PM
Broz_Tito: The Arabs are cancer not only to Israel but wherever they settle down.
Not only do they populate like rabbits, but also they misuse the social welfare benefits of the countries they populate . Give them some basic freedoms and they will demand the destruction of the whole system. An implementation of Sharia and forced conversions. And a final point.

The leftist media has to be finished off because more than anything else its the biased media (that insists on calling these soldiers of death 'victims') that is reinforcing the ungrateful Palestinians into blowing themselves up like a load of camel poop.


so...you're bigoted against arabs, then?
 
2009-05-11 01:32:04 PM
Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: FootInMouthDisease: Tatsuma Third, Israel is not a religious state

Ha.

it's not as if the israeli flag contains religious symbols.


Symbols on a flag aren't always an indication of a religious state. Turkey has the Crescent and Star on their flag, and they've had coups to preserve Turkey has a secular state.

Israel is a religious state in sort of the same way the UK is a religious state.

and..

Tatsuma: you're Jewish even if ch"vs you eat a shrimp cheeseburger

Huh?
 
2009-05-11 01:32:21 PM
fernt: BTW, do they make tin-foil kippahs?

Indeed they do

www.bangitout.com

Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: so...is it OK for a jewish girl to marry and make babies with goyim?

No, and if you've got a problem with that, take it up with the Bible. If he converts earnestly, however, no problems there.
 
2009-05-11 01:33:11 PM
Broz_Tito: The Arabs are cancer not only to Israel but wherever they settle down.
Not only do they populate like rabbits, but also they misuse the social welfare benefits of the countries they populate . Give them some basic freedoms and they will demand the destruction of the whole system. An implementation of Sharia and forced conversions. And a final point.

The leftist media has to be finished off because more than anything else its the biased media (that insists on calling these soldiers of death 'victims') that is reinforcing the ungrateful Palestinians into blowing themselves up like a load of camel poop.


Haha, I didn't know people like you really existed. You're probably a troll though, so maybe they don't.
 
2009-05-11 01:33:24 PM
Aarontology: Huh?

chas v'shalom, "Heaven forbid"
 
2009-05-11 01:33:47 PM
Tatsuma: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: so...is it OK for a jewish girl to marry and make babies with goyim?

No, and if you've got a problem with that, take it up with the Bible. If he converts earnestly, however, no problems there.


so you're reversing what you said a few days ago?
 
2009-05-11 01:34:40 PM
Tatsuma: No, that's not the case, he's just ignorant. I'm going to ignore his comment about Israel being a religious state not because, gosh darn, his "Ah!" proved me wrong. No, it's the fact that for someone to believe this, they have to be either braindead, incredibly anti-Israel or completely ignorant. I have time for none of them.

True or False. If you convert to Judiasm, you can get Israeli citizenship.

Answer in white: True. In fact Israel is the only "first world" nation that awards full citizenship rights based on your religious affiliation! Yet, this doesn't make it a "religious state".
 
2009-05-11 01:34:44 PM
FootInMouthDisease: Tatsuma Third, Israel is not a religious state

Ha.


Nope, Tats is right. Secular state. It is not illegal to break (most) Jewish religious laws (not murdering, those kinds of things still apply). As I've said before, many of the early 20th century kibbutznikim who founded settlements in Ottoman and British Palestine were communist sympathizers and viewed religion as outdated and oppressive.
 
2009-05-11 01:35:03 PM
Tatsuma: absoluteparanoia: Common tactic when someone deals a knockout punch in a debate is to just ignore that it was ever said. So I'm going to go ahead and quote it again, because that's where the debate ended.

No, that's not the case, he's just ignorant


youkilledkenny.net


/Mr. Jefferson?
 
2009-05-11 01:35:37 PM
Tatsuma: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: it's not as if the israeli flag contains religious symbols.

Actually, the actual religious meaning of the Magen Dovid is quite obscure, even most religious Jews would probably have a hard time explaining it to you.


That is some WORLD-CLASS dissembling right there. That is why I like you so much, Tats. Excellent work.

/GOD
//JESUS
///OBAMA
//hm, one of those doesn't belong there.
 
2009-05-11 01:38:38 PM
NobleHam: Haha, I didn't know people like you really existed. You're probably a troll though, so maybe they don't.

He's incredibly hard, and I wouldn't agree with his statement, however there certainly is a glimmer of truth in what he's saying, meaning:

Wherever, as a group, palestinians settled in large numbers in the Middle-East and were given a measure of freedom, they were kicked out of the country a few years (or at most a couple of decades) later. First it happened in Jordan, where the PLO basically took over a large portion of the country, they operated much like Hizbullah operates today with their own police force, etc... Jordanian soldiers and policemen couldn't enter these zones or they would be killed. (There are gruesome stories of Western journalists seeing a bunch of PLO thugs playing football with the severed head of a jordanian soldier.) It ended as the PLO tried to overthrow the monarchy and take over the country, when between 10,000 and 30,000 palestinians were killed in a month and the non-citizens were pretty much forced to leave. The same scenario repeated itself in Southern Lebanon, throwing the country in the midst of a civil war. Then, in 1991 all the palestinians in Kuwait were kicked out of the country since they openly cheered and collaborated with Saddam Hussein when he took over Kuwait.
 
2009-05-11 01:39:17 PM
Tatsuma: I have never told that to anyone. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. If you were born from a halachicly Jewish mother, or were converted following Halacha, you're Jewish even if ch"vs you eat a shrimp cheeseburger on Shabbos while driving in your car.

Oh, I'm quite certain I've seen you claiming the ability to define who is jewish and who isn't in multiple threads. Back when I gave you the benefit of the doubt I actually tried to get you to explain the details of your claims, but you just told me that I was biased against you, israel, and jews and therefore it would be a waste of your time to try to explain it to me. But hey, as long as whatever nonsense you spouted is too buried on fark for anyone as lazy as me to prove you said it, you can just go ahead and claim you never said it right?
 
2009-05-11 01:39:19 PM
FootInMouthDisease:

You aren't "the chosen people,"

What God meant by chosen was that Jews were chosen to be "it", like in tag. The world's longest, most vicious and bloody game of tag ever.
 
2009-05-11 01:40:02 PM
Tatsuma: No, that's not the case, he's just ignorant. I'm going to ignore his comment about Israel being a religious state not because, gosh darn, his "Ah!" proved me wrong. No, it's the fact that for someone to believe this, they have to be either braindead, incredibly anti-Israel or completely ignorant. I have time for none of them.

A non religious state that has a religious symbol on its flag.

I'm braindead, someone explain this to me.....

Tatsuma: Actually, the actual religious meaning of the Magen Dovid is quite obscure, even most religious Jews would probably have a hard time explaining it to you.

But isn't it pretty much taken as the Jewish symbol all over the world? Like a cross for Christians and the Crescent moon/star for Muslims.

So uhhh....religious symbol on the flag of a non-religious state.....
 
2009-05-11 01:40:06 PM
Tatsuma Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: so...is it OK for a jewish girl to marry and make babies with goyim?

No, and if you've got a problem with that, take it up with the Bible.


No, I'm pretty sure we should take this up with those who hold onto this ass-backwards and archaic idea. Oh, the guys in charge of the legislature? Then we may have a problem.
 
2009-05-11 01:40:20 PM
Tatsuma:

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew

Gesundheit.
 
2009-05-11 01:41:42 PM
If we could slap some diodes on Tats, to somehow possibly harness all the spin, we could effectively end our dependence on fossil fuels.
 
2009-05-11 01:41:48 PM
absoluteparanoia: True. In fact Israel is the only "first world" nation that awards full citizenship rights based on your religious affiliation! Yet, this doesn't make it a "religious state".

Exactly.

This is also extremely rare, as the number of converts is extremely low to begin with.

They are also not given the citizenship because of their religion, but rather they are included in the law of return because of why the law of return exists: to provide citizenship to Israel as a mean to avoid persecution from the rest of the world, should it ch"vs happen again.

catblender: Nope, Tats is right. Secular state. It is not illegal to break (most) Jewish religious laws (not murdering, those kinds of things still apply). As I've said before, many of the early 20th century kibbutznikim who founded settlements in Ottoman and British Palestine were communist sympathizers and viewed religion as outdated and oppressive.

In fact, the vast majority of zionists to begin with were areligious if not anti-religious. There was only the revisionist zionist movement which was a bit more open toward religion, but even then they carried very little weight inside the state proper, their real influence was from the diaspora.
 
2009-05-11 01:43:36 PM
SherKhan FootInMouthDisease:

You aren't "the chosen people,"

What God meant by chosen was that Jews were chosen to be "it", like in tag. The world's longest, most vicious and bloody game of tag ever.


SherKhan Tatsuma:

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew

Gesundheit.


Oh, You! ;D
 
2009-05-11 01:43:50 PM
Tatsuma: They are also not given the citizenship because of their religion, but rather they are included in the law of return because of why the law of return exists: to provide citizenship to Israel as a mean to avoid persecution from the rest of the world, should it ch"vs happen again.

So then why don't they offer the same type of law to people based on race or other religions, to help them avoid persecution?
 
2009-05-11 01:44:11 PM
Tatsuma: NobleHam: Haha, I didn't know people like you really existed. You're probably a troll though, so maybe they don't.

He's incredibly hard, and I wouldn't agree with his statement, however there certainly is a glimmer of truth in what he's saying, meaning:

Wherever, as a group, palestinians settled in large numbers in the Middle-East and were given a measure of freedom, they were kicked out of the country a few years (or at most a couple of decades) later. First it happened in Jordan, where the PLO basically took over a large portion of the country, they operated much like Hizbullah operates today with their own police force, etc... Jordanian soldiers and policemen couldn't enter these zones or they would be killed. (There are gruesome stories of Western journalists seeing a bunch of PLO thugs playing football with the severed head of a jordanian soldier.) It ended as the PLO tried to overthrow the monarchy and take over the country, when between 10,000 and 30,000 palestinians were killed in a month and the non-citizens were pretty much forced to leave. The same scenario repeated itself in Southern Lebanon, throwing the country in the midst of a civil war. Then, in 1991 all the palestinians in Kuwait were kicked out of the country since they openly cheered and collaborated with Saddam Hussein when he took over Kuwait.


Uh-huh... and that proves that Arabs are inherently barbaric and untrustworthy? Some Palestinians did bad things, let's condemn their whole race. Sorry, but there wasn't even a glimmer of truth in what he said, and the fact that you didn't outright condemn what he said and instead offered a bullshiat justification for why it's partially true just proves yet again that you're a bit of a racist.
 
2009-05-11 01:44:14 PM
catblender: FootInMouthDisease: Tatsuma Third, Israel is not a religious state

Ha.

Nope, Tats is right. Secular state. It is not illegal to break (most) Jewish religious laws (not murdering, those kinds of things still apply). As I've said before, many of the early 20th century kibbutznikim who founded settlements in Ottoman and British Palestine were communist sympathizers and viewed religion as outdated and oppressive.


Okay, so Israel does not enforce religious law. But would you say that the way the Israeli government endorses and grants special privileges to members of the Jewish faith (offering citizenship to approved Jewish converts) makes it a religious state. You aren't going to be stoned for breaking sabbath, or investigated for being Christian, atheist, but the leadership and the government is more concerned with traveling in the direction of Jewish determination rather than in a secular path.

So, wouldn't that make them a religious state? Same as if the US preferentially granted passports to Christians?
 
2009-05-11 01:44:45 PM
Smackledorfer: Oh, I'm quite certain I've seen you claiming the ability to define who is jewish and who isn't in multiple threads.

It's not my ability to do it, it's what Judaism says clearly. You are Jewish if your mother is Jewish according to Halacha, or if you convert according to Halacha. That's it. It's that simple. Whether you are religiously observant or not is irrelevant if you match one of these two criterias.

It's not me who determines this, it's been that way for 3,300 years now.

Smackledorfer: you can just go ahead and claim you never said it right?

I will go and claim that yes, I never said that if a Jew drove on Shabbos, he isn't a Jew anymore. If anyone can find a quote of me saying that I will banish myself from this place and roam the earthSchadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: I'm braindead, someone explain this to me.....

Turkey is a religious state according to you?
 
2009-05-11 01:45:27 PM
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Tatsuma: They are also not given the citizenship because of their religion, but rather they are included in the law of return because of why the law of return exists: to provide citizenship to Israel as a mean to avoid persecution from the rest of the world, should it ch"vs happen again.

So then why don't they offer the same type of law to people based on race or other religions, to help them avoid persecution?


Because they're not a religious state. Get it? Only persecuted jews are worth saving. Everyone else can shove it.
 
2009-05-11 01:45:48 PM
ITT, unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, dogmatic misperceptions, and an us vs. them mentality being pedaled about one of the world's oldest religions.
 
2009-05-11 01:46:05 PM
Tatsuma: NobleHam: Haha, I didn't know people like you really existed. You're probably a troll though, so maybe they don't.

He's incredibly hard, and I wouldn't agree with his statement, however there certainly is a glimmer of truth in what he's saying, meaning:

Wherever, as a group, palestinians settled in large numbers in the Middle-East and were given a measure of freedom, they were kicked out of the country a few years (or at most a couple of decades) later. First it happened in Jordan, where the PLO basically took over a large portion of the country, they operated much like Hizbullah operates today with their own police force, etc... Jordanian soldiers and policemen couldn't enter these zones or they would be killed. (There are gruesome stories of Western journalists seeing a bunch of PLO thugs playing football with the severed head of a jordanian soldier.) It ended as the PLO tried to overthrow the monarchy and take over the country, when between 10,000 and 30,000 palestinians were killed in a month and the non-citizens were pretty much forced to leave. The same scenario repeated itself in Southern Lebanon, throwing the country in the midst of a civil war. Then, in 1991 all the palestinians in Kuwait were kicked out of the country since they openly cheered and collaborated with Saddam Hussein when he took over Kuwait.


absolutely no mention of israeli sponsored massacres? (pops)

you're the fox news of middle eastern history.
 
2009-05-11 01:47:15 PM
SherKhan: Tatsuma:

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew

Gesundheit.


mein gesundheit ist gut. wie ist dein?
 
2009-05-11 01:47:28 PM
I imagine in 50 years a Jewish state will be a demographic memory.
 
2009-05-11 01:48:53 PM
Tatsuma, you're a fundamentalist piece of shiat, and that's all there is to it.
 
2009-05-11 01:49:17 PM
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: So then why don't they offer the same type of law to people based on race or other religions, to help them avoid persecution?

Because it's an incredibly small strip of land? We already take in Darfur refugees, you know.

NobleHam: Uh-huh... and that proves that Arabs are inherently barbaric and untrustworthy?

What? Of course not. I said there was a glimmer of truth to what he said, and I pointed out that in the first two instances it was mostly the behavior of the PLO (with support of the population) that led to this.

NobleHam: and the fact that you didn't outright condemn what he said

!! What the fark is

Tatsuma: He's incredibly hard, and I wouldn't agree with his statement

if not condemnation?

NobleHam: proves yet again that you're a bit of a racist.

How am I a racist by saying that the guy was incredibly hard on them, that I didn't agree with his statement, and still pointing out that there was a glimmer of truth in the midst of what he says.

Do you know what a glimmer is?

glimmer

1 a: to shine faintly or unsteadily b: to give off a subdued unsteady reflection
2: to appear indistinctly with a faintly luminous quality
 
2009-05-11 01:49:29 PM
Tatsuma: No, and if you've got a problem with that, take it up with the Bible. If he converts earnestly, however, no problems there.

we all know you just waiting to murder me when I hobbled over from the pain of circumcision.
 
2009-05-11 01:50:32 PM
absoluteparanoia: Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Tatsuma: They are also not given the citizenship because of their religion, but rather they are included in the law of return because of why the law of return exists: to provide citizenship to Israel as a mean to avoid persecution from the rest of the world, should it ch"vs happen again.

So then why don't they offer the same type of law to people based on race or other religions, to help them avoid persecution?

Because they're not a religious state. Get it? Only persecuted jews are worth saving. Everyone else can shove it.


persecuted jew in ethiopia? we'll send a private jet!
persecuted non-jew in ethiopia? fark off and die, kaffir boy
 
2009-05-11 01:52:04 PM
Commissar_Murphy: (offering citizenship to approved Jewish converts)

No, they are offered citizenship on the same basis that other Jews are offered citizenship: as a shelter from persecution. That's why the Law of Return was created.

Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: absolutely no mention of israeli sponsored massacres? (pops)

Which part of "civil war" did you not get?

It wasn't "sponsored" as Israel didn't realize until too late what was happening.

James F. Campbell: Tatsuma, you're a fundamentalist piece of shiat, and that's all there is to it.

Thank you for your invaluable participation in this thread I hope you will provide further insightful commentary to help this discussion along.
 
2009-05-11 01:52:46 PM
Commissar_Murphy: re: right of return

So, wouldn't that make them a religious state? Same as if the US preferentially granted passports to Christians?


I think the general bar for religious state is set a little higher. If Israel defined citizenship as based upon religion I would consider it a religious state, but I don't think preferential treatment of certain immigrants makes the cut.
 
2009-05-11 01:53:18 PM
Fark the Pope.
 
2009-05-11 01:53:21 PM
pd771: we all know you just waiting to murder me when I hobbled over from the pain of circumcision.

I knew we should just have kept that part hidden, dammit.

How am I supposed to get free breeches without paying, then?
 
2009-05-11 01:55:03 PM
Tatsuma: fernt: BTW, do they make tin-foil kippahs?

Indeed they do


img518.imageshack.us
 
2009-05-11 01:56:24 PM
Is this just a bearded bloke, or is this an actual Rabbi? I don't recognize him.
 
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