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(Denver Post)   It is no longer a crime to wear a T-shirt reading NOBAMA, even in barely civilized outposts of America such as Denver   (denverpost.com) divider line 169
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2630 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 May 2009 at 4:58 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-05-01 05:37:43 PM  
brigid_fitch
FTFA: Benson was given a "promise to appear" citation by a Jefferson County sheriff's deputy and accused of "interference with staff of an educational facility,"

Wearing a tshirt & carrying a sign is "interference"?? There damn well had better be MUCH more to that story to justify an arrest & criminal charges. Like the kid hitting a teacher w/the sign.


Teachers and police are union. Remember when the Virginia teacher's union tried to get every teacher in the state to campaign in school for Obama? Why do you think these people had Mrs. Obama making an appearance at a public school the day before the election?
 
2009-05-01 05:38:39 PM  
have no problem with the ACLU I simply disagree with the way they view the 2nd amendment.

And there's the problem. They don't HAVE a view on the second amendment other than "no worries the NRA has tons of cash and has it covered".

It's not implied that it's less important, it's implied that it's already adequately defended.
 
2009-05-01 05:38:55 PM  
dhudd: Hard core dem here, the deputy needs to be tarred and feathered. The kid needs a brain transplant.

Nothing else needs to be said.
 
2009-05-01 05:39:19 PM  
Random Guy:
Unless its about guns.

Other than that I respect the ACLU.


The ACLU isn't anti-second-amendment, they just stay off of those cases because the NRA can and does do 'em better. You're allowed to focus, they don't go around fighting to make liquor licenses free and ban dry counties on the grounds of the 21st amendment, either.

The ACLU does take some pretty retarded cases on occasion, but that's really a function of the large number of cases they take, statistics dictates some of 'em would be silly. For the most part they do good work.
 
2009-05-01 05:39:41 PM  
equilibrium: Just to be sure everyone is consistent on the student free speech thing, think about what your position was on the kid with the "Bong Hits for Jesus" sign.

Again, at the risk of repeating myself, the Bong Hits kid was across the street from his school. I can't really square these two cases.
 
2009-05-01 05:41:04 PM  
Soup4Bonnie: Random Guy: I guess only one organization at a time can support a right.

Perhaps they looked at their limited resources and decided what their priorities as an organization should be.

Do you think the NRA is not up to the task? Do you think the NRA should start expanding their defense of the Bill of Rights to be more encompassing?


Not the person to whom you are responding, but the National Rifle Association should probably stick to what they know. The American Civil Liberties Union should probably try to defend all rights and liberties equally, not just those that the majority of their membership agrees with. If you can't see the difference, then there is no hope for you.
 
Bf+
2009-05-01 05:41:10 PM  
dhudd: Hard core dem here, the deputy needs to be tarred and feathered. The kid needs a brain transplant.

Um... Yep. That pretty much sums it up. Thread over.
 
2009-05-01 05:43:07 PM  
Buck-KY: Nothing else needs to be said.

Oh I don't know, I'm enjoying watching the conservatives get all worked up about how this kid's free speech rights were violated. When they've got a nice froth going someone (probably me) will point out that they're also defending the right of students to wear a hemp shirt with marijuana leaf on it and carry a sign that says "Legalize Pot" on one side and "Smoke Weed" on the other.
 
2009-05-01 05:43:23 PM  
brigid_fitch: FTFA: Benson was given a "promise to appear" citation by a Jefferson County sheriff's deputy and accused of "interference with staff of an educational facility,"

Wearing a tshirt & carrying a sign is "interference"?? There damn well had better be MUCH more to that story to justify an arrest & criminal charges. Like the kid hitting a teacher w/the sign.

Good thing charges were dropped. And I hope his parents sue the hell out of the school & sheriff's office.


Damages are...? The kid's suspension was reversed, charges were dropped, and the authorities admitted that they were wrong. What more does the kid need? A pat on the head and a handjob for the arresting officer?
 
2009-05-01 05:43:44 PM  
Tigger: have no problem with the ACLU I simply disagree with the way they view the 2nd amendment.

And there's the problem. They don't HAVE a view on the second amendment other than "no worries the NRA has tons of cash and has it covered".

It's not implied that it's less important, it's implied that it's already adequately defended.


Actually they do:

From their website

The ACLU interprets the Second Amendment as a collective right. Therefore, we disagree with the Supreme Court's decision in D.C. v. Heller. While the decision is a significant and historic reinterpretation of the right to keep and bear arms, the decision leaves many important questions unanswered that will have to be resolved in future litigation, including what regulations are permissible, and which weapons are embraced by the Second Amendment right that the Court has now recognized.

It is the whole collective right thing that I disagree with.
 
2009-05-01 05:44:35 PM  
Not the person to whom you are responding, but the National Rifle Association should probably stick to what they know. The American Civil Liberties Union should probably try to defend all rights and liberties equally,

If you think that the name of an organisation should entirely encompass the sum of their position on everything then yes.

if you're not a weapons grade tardbucket then no.

You couldn't fit "American Civil Liberties although focusing on core competencies of those liberties not superbly well defended by other well funded organisations who have hired specialist lawyers accordingly thereby exceeding our capacity to do the same Union" on a check book.
 
2009-05-01 05:45:31 PM  
The ACLU interprets the Second Amendment as a collective right. Therefore, we disagree with the Supreme Court's decision in D.C. v. Heller. While the decision is a significant and historic reinterpretation of the right to keep and bear arms, the decision leaves many important questions unanswered that will have to be resolved in future litigation, including what regulations are permissible, and which weapons are embraced by the Second Amendment right that the Court has now recognized.

huh I didn't know that - had always assumed they just figured 'sod it'.
 
2009-05-01 05:47:01 PM  
Hat Madder: Remember when the Virginia teacher's union tried to get every teacher in the state to campaign in school for Obama?

The VEA is a teachers union?

What does any of your post have to do with the subject at hand?

Tigger: if you're not a weapons grade tardbucket then no.

Thank you for saving me the typing.
 
2009-05-01 05:48:34 PM  
The ACLU does defend the second amendment, they just think of it differently than any other sane person in the modern era. They think of it as a collective right instead of an individual right. What that means, I have no idea. I think it amounts to the government opening a warehouse where you store your guns in case the militia is needed.
 
2009-05-01 05:48:51 PM  
Random Guy: IrateShadow: Lionel Mandrake: Damn those ACLU commies, always persecuting conservatives...

Conservatives love the ACLU. They can yell and scream about them being enemies of the country, but they'll still back them up when needed.

Unless its about guns.

Other than that I respect the ACLU.


Do you respect funeral parlors except for the fact that they don't perform weddings?
 
2009-05-01 05:49:03 PM  
equilibrium: Buck-KY: Nothing else needs to be said.

Oh I don't know, I'm enjoying watching the conservatives get all worked up about how this kid's free speech rights were violated. When they've got a nice froth going someone (probably me) will point out that they're also defending the right of students to wear a hemp shirt with marijuana leaf on it and carry a sign that says "Legalize Pot" on one side and "Smoke Weed" on the other.


Good point!
 
2009-05-01 05:50:20 PM  
Random Guy: netweavr: Random Guy: IrateShadow: Lionel Mandrake: Damn those ACLU commies, always persecuting conservatives...

Conservatives love the ACLU. They can yell and scream about them being enemies of the country, but they'll still back them up when needed.

Unless its about guns.

Other than that I respect the ACLU.

Thought the ACLU stayed out of gun issues.

Well, yeah thats the point of my statement. The self-appointed champions of american rights are quiet about one that made 2nd on the list of the bill of rights.


They aren't quiet about it. They have a section of their website devoted to answering people like you on the "why don't you support the 2nd amendment, huh, huh?" question.

You DO realize there is another organization devoted ENTIRELY to the 2nd amendment, right?
 
2009-05-01 05:50:47 PM  
Tigger: huh I didn't know that - had always assumed they just figured 'sod it'.

That was pretty much the case until Heller at which point the ACLU took the position that the Supreme Court had reversed its historic position and was on the wrong side of the issue.
 
2009-05-01 05:50:50 PM  
The ACLU does defend the second amendment, they just think of it differently than any other sane person in the modern era.

DC vs Heller was a 5-4 decision, so at least 4 Supreme Court justices can be included in people who think of it that way no?

The point is less about the legal debate on the 2nd, the point is more about 'leave it alone the NRA can do it"
 
2009-05-01 05:52:13 PM  
Sounds like he was charged for interfering with school officials. I'm sure he was anything but cooperative and created quite the scene - disturbing the peace.
 
2009-05-01 05:52:21 PM  
jso2897: Do you respect funeral parlors except for the fact that they don't perform weddings?

If you think that's bad, just try getting a handjob in Starbucks.
 
2009-05-01 05:53:58 PM  
The_Six_Fingered_Man:

Not the person to whom you are responding, but the National Rifle Association should probably stick to what they know. The American Civil Liberties Union should probably try to defend all rights and liberties equally, not just those that the majority of their membership agrees with. If you can't see the difference, then there is no hope for you.


The opinion of the ACLU, based on the legal issues involved, is that neither the possession of firearms nor regulation of possession is a civil liberties issue, per se.

An outright ban on possession of firearms would probably attract their attention (although others are correct that the much more specialized and focused NRA would probably be eager to bring that case, so the ACLU wouldn't have to). But the ACLU has stood by the US Vs Miller decision that the Second Amendment governs a collective right, rather than an individual one.

From a legal perspective, it will be interesting to see if the Heller decision will have any influence on future ACLU policy, although I doubt it will.

In any case, it's not really logical to criticize the ACLU for not doing the job that the NRA is already doing. It's sort of like criticizing the Boy Scouts for not doing heart surgery. There's already someone better trained, better funded and specifically focused on that issue, so the ACLU can concentrate on other cases that have less support.
 
2009-05-01 05:54:21 PM  
The_Six_Fingered_Man: Not the person to whom you are responding, but the National Rifle Association should probably stick to what they know. The American Civil Liberties Union should probably try to defend all rights and liberties equally, not just those that the majority of their membership agrees with. If you can't see the difference, then there is no hope for you.

Because there are limited resources and there are other organizations who can take up the mantel for gun laws. Also, if you're going to look for the right to bear arms, then there isn't any reason in the constitution ot stop people from having nuclear weapons/tanks etc. Only the total fringe would say everyone should have access to tanks, ICBMs etc. So then arms becomes a question of scale and the ACLU doesn't want to have to figure out where they will draw the line.

Let someone else do it isn't a terrible idea. I guess just because their name has Civil in it shouldn't mean they are forced to spend resources fighting gun laws when there are other organizations specifically created for that purpose.
 
2009-05-01 05:55:39 PM  
Kierkegaard's Pseudonym: The ACLU does defend the second amendment, they just think of it differently than any other sane person in the modern era. They think of it as a collective right instead of an individual right. What that means, I have no idea. I think it amounts to the government opening a warehouse where you store your guns in case the militia is needed.

I think it means they figure you only have the right to bear arms if it's use by you is fully controlled by some sort of state-appointed superior.
 
2009-05-01 05:56:08 PM  
Tigger: The ACLU does defend the second amendment, they just think of it differently than any other sane person in the modern era.

DC vs Heller was a 5-4 decision, so at least 4 Supreme Court justices can be included in people who think of it that way no?

The point is less about the legal debate on the 2nd, the point is more about 'leave it alone the NRA can do it"


No, the point was I like the ACLU except their position on the 2nd amendment. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
2009-05-01 05:57:40 PM  
Random guy

You have clarified that now.

Your original position sounded like "they should get involved in it and they don't" which isn't a good position.

Now I see that it is "I don't like the position they have" - which is entirely reasonable.

I see.
 
2009-05-01 05:58:10 PM  
Random Guy: No, the point was I like the ACLU except their position on the 2nd amendment. Why is this so hard to understand?

Apparently you can't communicate your ideas clearly.
 
2009-05-01 05:58:28 PM  
Of course it's a black officer; legalized gangster, and a white passive protester.


This is not surprising, and the US will see more of it daily.

Think of it. Every negative thing about ObombUS is censored, erased, or the person arrested.

From his citizenship, to his terrorist ties with camp money. Nothing negative can be said publicly about Americas Mr. Tom.

I mean. Everyone knows that he is nothing more than a Clintoon puppet.
 
2009-05-01 05:58:33 PM  
jso2897: Random Guy: IrateShadow: Lionel Mandrake: Damn those ACLU commies, always persecuting conservatives...

Conservatives love the ACLU. They can yell and scream about them being enemies of the country, but they'll still back them up when needed.

Unless its about guns.

Other than that I respect the ACLU.

Do you respect funeral parlors except for the fact that they don't perform weddings?


They are just deadists for not supporting morgue marriages.
 
2009-05-01 06:00:04 PM  
El_Dan: Damages are...? The kid's suspension was reversed, charges were dropped, and the authorities admitted that they were wrong. What more does the kid need? A pat on the head and a handjob for the arresting officer?

Call me a crazy liberal but suing for false arrest and violation of his First Amendment rights seems perfectly fair to me.
 
2009-05-01 06:00:48 PM  
TedNigma: blah blah blah


Trolls are supposed to be funny.
 
2009-05-01 06:00:48 PM  
Random Guy: Why is this so hard to understand?


Soup4Bonnie: Do you think the NRA should start expanding their defense of the Bill of Rights to be more encompassing?
 
2009-05-01 06:03:36 PM  
FloydA: TedNigma: blah blah blah


Trolls are supposed to be funny.


A bonafide troll? And here I thought he was going for snarky satire.
 
2009-05-01 06:05:44 PM  
The kid will probably end up winning a couple grand from the school district, who will pass along the cost to the taxpayers. A few more poor people in Denver will not be able to afford the higher rent or school taxes in their mortgage and become homeless. Good work, all around.

/ argh!!11!!!
 
2009-05-01 06:12:35 PM  
it is beyond me that people can say "end of story" because the charges were dropped. This young man was cuffed infront of his peers for exercising his constituional rights. Anyone that is an American should be upset that someone got arrested for exercising their rights. This deputy should be made example of, the US Constitutiion is the highest law in the land. This officer broke the law. Everyone that was involved with this young-man being arrested needs a SERIOUS lesson on Constitutional law.

In my opinion the ACLU should never have needed to get involved because this should never have happened.

You may ask why some people want to hold on to their guns? its b/c of incidents like this...because your rights can be taken that easily and you may only have one way to protect yourself.
 
2009-05-01 06:18:22 PM  
peck-master: protect yourself

From what? The police? Who are you planning to fire upon to "protect yourself from stuff like this? I'm just curious how you made the jump to, "You may ask why some people want to hold on to their guns? its b/c of incidents like this". Should the boy have shot at the officer?

at the bottom of the article they talk about the ongoing investigation.
 
2009-05-01 06:20:15 PM  
peck-master: it is beyond me that people can say "end of story" because the charges were dropped. This young man was cuffed infront of his peers for exercising his constituional rights. Anyone that is an American should be upset that someone got arrested for exercising their rights. This deputy should be made example of, the US Constitutiion is the highest law in the land. This officer broke the law. Everyone that was involved with this young-man being arrested needs a SERIOUS lesson on Constitutional law.

In my opinion the ACLU should never have needed to get involved because this should never have happened.

You may ask why some people want to hold on to their guns? its b/c of incidents like this...because your rights can be taken that easily and you may only have one way to protect yourself.


Yet, the "bong hits for Jesus" kid lost, and he wasn't even wearing the shirt at school. Were you up in arms (I pun) over that one?
 
2009-05-01 06:22:49 PM  
First Lady Michelle Obama steps out in Lanvin sneakers and they're only $540!

Read more: "First Lady Michelle Obama steps out in Lanvin sneakers and they're only $540!" - http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/fashion/2009/05/01/2009-05-01_first_lady_mi chelle_obama_kicks_in_own_foot_feat_for_fashionistas_lanvin.html#ixzz0EIQRO8nU&A
 
2009-05-01 06:22:52 PM  
Buck-KY:

A bonafide troll? And here I thought he was going for snarky satire.


Satirists are definitely supposed to be funny. He wasn't, not even remotely.
 
2009-05-01 06:23:49 PM  
peck-master: it is beyond me that people can say "end of story" because the charges were dropped. This young man was cuffed infront of his peers for exercising his constituional rights. Anyone that is an American should be upset that someone got arrested for exercising their rights. This deputy should be made example of, the US Constitutiion is the highest law in the land. This officer broke the law. Everyone that was involved with this young-man being arrested needs a SERIOUS lesson on Constitutional law.

In my opinion the ACLU should never have needed to get involved because this should never have happened.

You may ask why some people want to hold on to their guns? its b/c of incidents like this...because your rights can be taken that easily and you may only have one way to protect yourself.


THIS

I will honestly admit that I could be completely wrong here if the kid was going a lot farther than a peaceful political protest. Kids do stupid stuff sometimes but from the article it looked like he was just arrested for holding a McCain/Palin sign.

Arrest/detention is used wayyyyyy too commonly these days. On top of that, who the hell decided that handcuffs are a perfectly acceptable way to deal with non violent offenders of any type?

You get arrested for that unpaid speeding ticket and you get your arms bound behind your back?

I was in a movie theatre once in Southern California. There was a group of kids in the row behind me. They were probably 15 or 16 years old. One of the kids had a backpack with him. Right before the movie started a manager and a cop came down and demanded that the kid get up out of his seat. The cop pushed him against a the theater wall and patted him down then rifled through his backpack.

They were apparently looking for a video camera thinking that the kid was going to pirate the movie. No arrests were made but you still had a 15 year old kid near tears because he was just manhandled out of nowhere in front of about 200 people.

I told the kid that he didn't have to take that kind of crap and the cop threatened ME with arrest.

A lot of people would say no harm/no foul since the kid wasn't actually arrested or charged (since the kid didn't actually do anything in the first place).

We need to stop putting up with this shiat.
 
2009-05-01 06:24:04 PM  
icanhazstapler: Hoopido: EL_FABREZ: He can't vote and he probably doesn't pay taxes. So who cares what the hell he was saying anyways?

Great point, so fark all the mexicans too.

Exactly. Other than pick our food, build our houses, take care of our kids, mow our lawns, cook our meals, and clean our toilets, what have Mexicans ever done for us?



Uh, brought the bird flu upon us.
 
2009-05-01 06:24:09 PM  
First Lady Michelle Obama is So like Sarah Palin.

/They really ought to go shopping together.
 
2009-05-01 06:26:32 PM  
EL_FABREZ: farking idiot. He's 17. He can't vote and he probably doesn't pay taxes. So who cares what the hell he was saying anyways?

Pretty much like the newly 18 year olds still living with mommy and daddy who voted for the American Idol candidate because it was cool?
Yes, so very different.
 
2009-05-01 06:26:51 PM  
printboy: First Lady Michelle Obama is So like Sarah Palin.


One went to Princeton and Harvard law and the other has a communications degree.
 
2009-05-01 06:29:02 PM  
printboy: First Lady Michelle Obama steps out in Lanvin sneakers and they're only $540!

Read more: "First Lady Michelle Obama steps out in Lanvin sneakers and they're only $540!" - http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/fashion/2009/05/01/2009-05-01_first_lady_mi chelle_obama_kicks_in_own_foot_feat_for_fashionistas_lanvin.html#ixzz0EIQRO8nU&A


WOW! Hey, why don't you go try to thread-jack somewhere else, buttercup?
 
2009-05-01 06:30:29 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: Damn those ACLU commies, always persecuting conservatives...


If there's is one the from what I have seen and understand about the ACLU they do not seem to show any prejudice in regards to who they chose to defend.

I'm not saying there isn't information to prove otherwise but for the time-being that seems to be the case. I believe that's why they have such a bad rap isn't it?
 
2009-05-01 06:30:45 PM  
At least we have a Potus that knows how important it is to be taken serious and not be an attention whore.

UH-OH

Spoke to soon.

The "American Idol" contestants have enough pressure dealing with the critiques of Randy, Kara, Paula and Simon - and if "Idol's" harshest judge gets his way, they'll be performing for President Obama.
 
2009-05-01 06:32:16 PM  
NeverDrunk23: printboy: First Lady Michelle Obama steps out in Lanvin sneakers and they're only $540!

Read more: "First Lady Michelle Obama steps out in Lanvin sneakers and they're only $540!" - http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/fashion/2009/05/01/2009-05-01_first_lady_mi chelle_obama_kicks_in_own_foot_feat_for_fashionistas_lanvin.html#ixzz0EIQRO8nU&A

WOW! Hey, why don't you go try to thread-jack somewhere else, buttercup?


So that makes her a Snob too?
 
2009-05-01 06:32:19 PM  
fritton: peck-master:
You may ask why some people want to hold on to their guns? its b/c of incidents like this...because your rights can be taken that easily and you may only have one way to protect yourself.


We need to stop putting up with this shiat.



You have valid points, both of those teenagers had their rights abused, and in both cases, the law enforcement officers overstepped and abused their authority.

However, if the youths had possessed firearms at the time, I sincerely doubt that their situations would have been better.

Think about it. In either of those instances, imagine if the teenager had pulled out a firearm when his rights were threatened.

Do you honestly believe that the addition of lethal force to either of those situations would have improved the lot of the child in question?
 
2009-05-01 06:33:12 PM  
printboy: At least we have a Potus that knows how important it is to be taken serious and not be an attention whore.

UH-OH

Spoke to soon.

The "American Idol" contestants have enough pressure dealing with the critiques of Randy, Kara, Paula and Simon - and if "Idol's" harshest judge gets his way, they'll be performing for President Obama.


stay on topic or gtfo you pathetic attention whore.
 
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