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(Palm Beach Post)   Autistic kid, 13, does impossible: Finds parking space, gets on flight with no cash, no id   (palmbeachpost.com ) divider line
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24343 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2009 at 12:46 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-04-29 03:32:30 PM  

itazurakko


Then it's just TSA and the gate, both of which NORMALLY ask for ID but if he's pulling the "don't say anything and let them think this nice lady is my mom" gambit, he got lucky and got away with it.


I should have RTFA first: it sounded like he didn't actually have a boarding pass, either.

*hangs head in shame*
*slinks away*
 
2009-04-29 03:37:10 PM  
A$$berger's with cheese
 
2009-04-29 03:37:41 PM  

Ral: I know a guy with Asperger's and he's not annoying. Quite the contrary, he's very interesting, funny, and you would never know he has Asperger's just from meeting him. I knew him for years before finding out.

His problem is extreme withdrawal. It's very, very difficult for him to come out of himself enough to interact with other people socially. It takes a huge amount of energy and concentration. He's learned to do it. He also doesn't have an innate sense of nonverbal social cues. He's had to learn it intellectually.


It's taken me a lot of work over the past few years to do the same. (And it's still hard.) Most people think I'm fairly normal now, as I've taught myself to gregariously socialize. Except when I start obsessing over some geeky thing and/or don't pay interest in other people, violate someone's personal body space, or when they notice that I never look anyone in the eye...

They're saying this guy had Aspergers, but from the sound of it he's more toward the full-blown autism end of it, if he doesn't understand that this was wrong. Most Aspies I know have a highly-developed internal moral code, and find it difficult to even tell a white lie to someone.

GoSurfing: Asperger drivers are the best. They are so attentive, always religiously obey road signs, and always know where they are going. I bet this kid memorized how many right turns he would have to make on his way to the airport. It doesn't surprise me this kids first time driving, and completely alone, was a success.


He's lucky he didn't get into a stressful heavy traffic situation that overloaded his capability to process information and sent him into a meltdown. (Happened to me once. Freaked out and ran a red light. Got pulled over. Fought the ticket. Won.)
 
2009-04-29 03:39:09 PM  

untaken_name: Farkwaddle: Before I engage in this debate, tell me...do you have kids? Are you willing to take the chances (on your kids' behalf) that there isn't a significant difference? If so, I hope you are lucky and nothing happens because of it. But this world isn't getting any bigger and as the population keeps exploding the chances your kid will come in contact with these pathogens will become greater. And as I said, if you want your kid to be involved with certain opportunities and social activities, they will have to have proof of their immunizations. It's not worth the gamble IMO.

Your example of the Spanish Flu epidemic is hardly helping your case. Immunizations and general medical science have far exceeded what was available and used at that time.

Are you willing to risk your kid becoming sick/dying/turning autistic? It's a two-edged sword. Besides, I thought the purpose of vaccination was to (within a generation or two) eradicate the disease so that further vaccination isn't necessary. Why are kids still getting polio vaccines?


I am willing to take that risk. It wasn't even a topic for debate when my son arrived last month. You're wrong about the purpose of the vaccines. They're used to PROTECT from the pathogens that are still out there. We can't sterilize the entire world of bacteria and viruses. Please, cite whatever source you are using for children becoming sick/dying or "contracting" autism. Sure, some kids run a fever after getting a shot (typical reaction) and some kids have allergic reactions, but I can tell you that autism is not something that is contracted. Autism and its various forms are genetic. It is an inherited condition and parents are looking for another source to blame it on.
 
2009-04-29 03:41:37 PM  

loki see loki do: Sgeo: Umokay:Where is this "Asperger's==retarded" nonsense coming from?

Because by definition aspies behave in socially retarded ways?


socially retarded != mentally retarded. Most Aspies are borderline geniuses; they're just worse than awkward with others.
 
2009-04-29 03:41:49 PM  

ryant123: The state should charge your dad with child neglect. He clearly didn't beat enough of the stupid out of you.


You calling me out for being irreverent on Fark is the same level of a "worthless endeavor" as pursuing a doctoral program in "Philosophy". What a gay, Canadian waste of time, money and effort.
 
2009-04-29 03:42:12 PM  

untaken_name: Are you willing to risk your kid becoming sick/dying/turning autistic?


There is NO risk. If one looks it up on PubMed, absolutely no causal link has been found between vaccination and autism.

It's a two-edged sword. Besides, I thought the purpose of vaccination was to (within a generation or two) eradicate the disease so that further vaccination isn't necessary. Why are kids still getting polio vaccines?

Well for starters it's a big damn planet, but with modern travel it's highly connected. The developing world is still rife with polio, as well as scores of other diseases that have been largely eradicated in the developed countries. Any of those heartbreaking and destructive ailments is a plane ride away from every North American and European City.

Yes I know the post was probably sarcasm.
 
2009-04-29 03:42:31 PM  

JonnyBGoode: He's lucky he didn't get into a stressful heavy traffic situation that overloaded his capability to process information and sent him into a meltdown. (Happened to me once. Freaked out and ran a red light. Got pulled over. Fought the ticket. Won.)


WTF? You beat a ticket because you were unable to safely operate a vehicle because of farking confusion?

Should've had your license revoked.
 
2009-04-29 03:44:38 PM  
Some interesting stuff here. I recall from studies that asperger syndrome is still being debated, not as to whether or not is is real (it is, and its relatively easy to diagnose at this point), but as to whether or not it fits in the autism spectrum at all. The other forms of autism typically represent with mild to severe retardation as well, whereas asperger syndrome does not. Asperger is very typically high function, and requires a great deal of extra training by the parent to avoid serious social issues, as children will often self-injure out of frustration.

My son has it. The diagnosis involved six professionals of various fields, a geneticist, several developmental specialists, a medical doctor, and two child psychologists who specialize in the field, so I am disinclined to think of it as a casual diagnosis.

Its a LOT of work to keep him properly socialized, to teach him tricks to enable him to interact with others. For instance, children with asperger syndrome will often fail to see the "pause" part in normal social interaction, and talk over other children. Or fail to re-focus when the group focuses on other activities.

Teaching workarounds is most of what must be done, and is the challenge of it all. Oh yeah. And teaching social rules, and making sure the kid has all the tools necessary to NOT be a useless snowflake later in life. Just like any other normal parent.

Wouldn't trade him for the world.
 
2009-04-29 03:45:00 PM  

JonnyBGoode: They're saying this guy had Aspergers, but from the sound of it he's more toward the full-blown autism end of it, if he doesn't understand that this was wrong.


Maybe, but on the other hand it sounds to me like he HAD to know he was sneaking around in order to plan ahead to do the "pretend this person is my mom" thing.

If the 13 year old shows up ALONE at the gate or TSA, they're going to ask him for either an ID (which he WOULD need, I presume, if he were travelling alone?) or else "hey kid, where's your parents?" "hey kid, who you travelling with?"

Maybe he got crazy lucky or the airport is even more clueless than even I thought, but I would think a kid who just shows up all brazen on his own (or just not in an appropriate "pack" of people) would be asked for ID, while one who shows up all "deer in the headlights" or looking "out of it" and unable to bullshiat through an encounter would have the "lost kids" people paging around.
 
2009-04-29 03:46:24 PM  

Farkwaddle: untaken_name: Farkwaddle: Before I engage in this debate, tell me...do you have kids? Are you willing to take the chances (on your kids' behalf) that there isn't a significant difference? If so, I hope you are lucky and nothing happens because of it. But this world isn't getting any bigger and as the population keeps exploding the chances your kid will come in contact with these pathogens will become greater. And as I said, if you want your kid to be involved with certain opportunities and social activities, they will have to have proof of their immunizations. It's not worth the gamble IMO.

Your example of the Spanish Flu epidemic is hardly helping your case. Immunizations and general medical science have far exceeded what was available and used at that time.

Are you willing to risk your kid becoming sick/dying/turning autistic? It's a two-edged sword. Besides, I thought the purpose of vaccination was to (within a generation or two) eradicate the disease so that further vaccination isn't necessary. Why are kids still getting polio vaccines?

I am willing to take that risk. It wasn't even a topic for debate when my son arrived last month. You're wrong about the purpose of the vaccines. They're used to PROTECT from the pathogens that are still out there. We can't sterilize the entire world of bacteria and viruses. Please, cite whatever source you are using for children becoming sick/dying or "contracting" autism. Sure, some kids run a fever after getting a shot (typical reaction) and some kids have allergic reactions, but I can tell you that autism is not something that is contracted. Autism and its various forms are genetic. It is an inherited condition and parents are looking for another source to blame it on.


Autism aside, there's still risk. See Link (new window)

So, whether you risk your child contracting a mostly eradicated disease or whether you risk your child dying from a vaccine, you are still taking a risk. Personally, I'll treat them like flu shots: Sometimes, rarely, I get the flu when I don't have a flu shot. However, I *always* get it very bad whenever I get a flu shot. Therefore, I will take my chances without one. I had about half the scheduled vaccinations as a child, and luckily I didn't die, but I also never contracted the diseases I wasn't vaccinated against (polio, measles, something else I can't remember). It's just a matter of which risk you are willing to take.
 
2009-04-29 03:47:08 PM  

JonnyBGoode: socially retarded != mentally retarded. Most Aspies are borderline geniuses; they're just worse than awkward with others.


Socially retarded is still retarded.
Aaaaand, there is the genius aspie comment.

See the Encyclopedia Dramatica link above.
 
2009-04-29 03:48:51 PM  

No Such Agency: untaken_name: Are you willing to risk your kid becoming sick/dying/turning autistic?

There is NO risk. If one looks it up on PubMed, absolutely no causal link has been found between vaccination and autism.

It's a two-edged sword. Besides, I thought the purpose of vaccination was to (within a generation or two) eradicate the disease so that further vaccination isn't necessary. Why are kids still getting polio vaccines?

Well for starters it's a big damn planet, but with modern travel it's highly connected. The developing world is still rife with polio, as well as scores of other diseases that have been largely eradicated in the developed countries. Any of those heartbreaking and destructive ailments is a plane ride away from every North American and European City.

Yes I know the post was probably sarcasm.


Even if autism is a red herring, there's still risk. See above link. Also, not everyone will be travelling to the developing world, and since polio is rare in the developed world, I don't think the risks are very great for the average person. Perhaps if everyone travelled to developing countries, vaccinating everyone would make sense. And yes, it was sarcasm.
 
2009-04-29 03:49:24 PM  

GoddessofSnowandIce: Since you don't have an email addy in your profile:

Thank you 99sportster for the TF sponsorship!


Great, this will end well. Good job giving the antisocial chick another reason to spend more time on the internets while she blames something else for her kids being screwed up. Should have just given her a WoW account so that we can read about all of them starving to death.
 
2009-04-29 03:53:33 PM  

loki see loki do: JonnyBGoode: He's lucky he didn't get into a stressful heavy traffic situation that overloaded his capability to process information and sent him into a meltdown. (Happened to me once. Freaked out and ran a red light. Got pulled over. Fought the ticket. Won.)

WTF? You beat a ticket because you were unable to safely operate a vehicle because of farking confusion?

Should've had your license revoked.


Actually, I beat the ticket because I out-thought the stupid police officer. I explained to the judge that there were a multitude of fire engines and other emergency vehicles converging on the area. I said that I was "clearing the intersection" for further emergency vehicles - including the police officer immediately behind me which may have needed to respond.

(I also noted that my wife was a heart patient and was having chest pains because of all the excitement, and I was trying to calm her through all this [which was only adding to my stress], and the officer showed no concern whatsoever and never once asked if she needed medical assistance but instead treated her chest pains as a domestic violence situation. WTF?)
 
2009-04-29 03:55:46 PM  

emocomputerjock:
Great, this will end well. Good job giving the antisocial chick another reason to spend more time on the internets while she blames something else for her kids being screwed up. Should have just given her a WoW account so that we can read about all of them starving to death.


Oddly, the children in her profile appear to be quite happy. Also, since you are a liter like me, reading all the stuff she posts on teh internets probably will not be an issue for you. And if you read what she wrote, you might notice the subtle clues she left that she is attempting normal socialization both for herself and her children.

/Aargh, I BIT THE DAMN LURE!
 
2009-04-29 03:56:14 PM  

untaken_name: Farkwaddle: untaken_name: Farkwaddle:

Autism aside, there's still risk. See Link (new window)



That link is to the most untrustworthy medical site I have ever seen.

It is the stuff of full-on crazy people.
 
2009-04-29 03:56:48 PM  

Umokay: You calling me out for being irreverent on Fark is the same level of a "worthless endeavor" as pursuing a doctoral program in "Philosophy". What a gay, Canadian waste of time, money and effort.


Yeah I guess I did fall for it. And it's philosophy that's made me get drunk and gullible at 1pm, so I guess I can't argue with you there. The money though hasn't been too bad.
 
2009-04-29 03:57:48 PM  

JonnyBGoode: loki see loki do: JonnyBGoode: He's lucky he didn't get into a stressful heavy traffic situation that overloaded his capability to process information and sent him into a meltdown. (Happened to me once. Freaked out and ran a red light. Got pulled over. Fought the ticket. Won.)

WTF? You beat a ticket because you were unable to safely operate a vehicle because of farking confusion?

Should've had your license revoked.

Actually, I beat the ticket because I out-thought the stupid police officer. I explained to the judge that there were a multitude of fire engines and other emergency vehicles converging on the area. I said that I was "clearing the intersection" for further emergency vehicles - including the police officer immediately behind me which may have needed to respond.

(I also noted that my wife was a heart patient and was having chest pains because of all the excitement, and I was trying to calm her through all this [which was only adding to my stress], and the officer showed no concern whatsoever and never once asked if she needed medical assistance but instead treated her chest pains as a domestic violence situation. WTF?)


OK, you got my full fark respect back.
Sorry I doubted yer.
 
2009-04-29 03:59:51 PM  

KangTheMad: MaxxLarge: What the hell is this "autism" I keep hearing about, anyway? Is that just the new designer disorder label we slap on unruly brats we're too lazy to discipline properly?

That would be ADHD. Austism is when a child CANNOT mentally socialise properly. Austism is a genetic disorder.


Every autistic child I know has two, batshiat crazy parents that were that way before they had the kid.
 
2009-04-29 03:59:59 PM  

emocomputerjock: GoddessofSnowandIce: Since you don't have an email addy in your profile:

Thank you 99sportster for the TF sponsorship!

Great, this will end well. Good job giving the antisocial chick another reason to spend more time on the internets while she blames something else for her kids being screwed up. Should have just given her a WoW account so that we can read about all of them starving to death.


All this from someone with the nickname "Emo Computer Jock".
 
2009-04-29 04:00:01 PM  

hairywoogit: Oddly, the children in her profile appear to be quite happy. Also, since you are a liter like me, reading all the stuff she posts on teh internets probably will not be an issue for you. And if you read what she wrote, you might notice the subtle clues she left that she is attempting normal socialization both for herself and her children.


And, in my opinion, she is pretty hot in the first blue hair pic. And it must be tough as hell to lose 100+ pounds. That shows strength of mind and character. Congrats on that.

/just sayin
 
2009-04-29 04:01:17 PM  

GoddessofSnowandIce: emocomputerjock: GoddessofSnowandIce: Since you don't have an email addy in your profile:

Thank you 99sportster for the TF sponsorship!

Great, this will end well. Good job giving the antisocial chick another reason to spend more time on the internets while she blames something else for her kids being screwed up. Should have just given her a WoW account so that we can read about all of them starving to death.

All this from someone with the nickname "Emo Computer Jock".


Zinggggg!
 
2009-04-29 04:02:43 PM  
Quantum Apostrophe:You're a large piece of spoiled arrogant farkshiat who probably always got what he wanted from people, esp. women, because of how you look or act. Anyone who doesn't look or act like you is suspect because your tiny mind can't comprehend that other people may not be as blessed as you, oh bald pony-tailed one.

Lighten the fark up, Francis. Not only are you WAY off-base in your assessment of my "charm," but your knee-jerk bile-spewing just helped you miss a troll as broad as your mother's arse.

Seriously. Settle down.
 
2009-04-29 04:06:24 PM  

Umokay: And, in my opinion, she is pretty hot in the first blue hair pic. And it must be tough as hell to lose 100+ pounds. That shows strength of mind and character. Congrats on that.

/just sayin


Thank you! Hyperfocusing can have its negative and positive properties. Sometimes that stubborn aspie in me can take something like weight loss and turn it into a mathematical formula for success. I'm a human calculator for calories consumed based purely on density and composition and round it off to the nearest 50-100 calories per meal. Concentrating on numbers constantly allowed me to reach a tangible goal.

Thanks for the props! Oh, and don't worry. I regrew my hair and lightened it a bit. The short cut wasn't my most becoming of hairstyles. ^_^ It's back to long and electric blue (have to wear a wig to work though).

/82 82 82
//246
 
2009-04-29 04:06:33 PM  

ryant123: Umokay: You calling me out for being irreverent on Fark is the same level of a "worthless endeavor" as pursuing a doctoral program in "Philosophy". What a gay, Canadian waste of time, money and effort.

Yeah I guess I did fall for it. And it's philosophy that's made me get drunk and gullible at 1pm, so I guess I can't argue with you there. The money though hasn't been too bad.


Geez, it's OK friend. Sometimes I instigate flame war without realizing what a jerk I am being. I think philosophy to be a fine endeavor, and Canada is great, and I am sure you are not gay... But autistic people are still retards that should be beaten straight :)

And you would have laughed if you would have seen my dad street whip me. It sounds horrifying, but if a bunch of old geezers playing tennis were laughing, it couldn't have been that bad.
 
2009-04-29 04:06:43 PM  

GoddessofSnowandIce: All this from someone with the nickname "Emo Computer Jock".


Just what I was thinking.

There is a very real phenomenon of people who are actually just socially awkward/weird/inexperienced deciding they have Asperger's, when they really don't. However, that's true of every neurological problem, so I don't know why people assume every single person who says they have it, doesn't.

I had to counsel a friend of mine recently who had convinced himself he had it, and it took a long time to show him that his 'symptoms' did not actually fit those of Asperger's.

What do you think can, should be done about gently letting people know that they don't have Asperger's?

Also, simply out of curiosity, do you find it easier to 'appear' normal on the internet, rather than in person, and if so, why?

Apologies if this is overly intrusive.
 
2009-04-29 04:12:49 PM  

GoddessofSnowandIce: emocomputerjock: GoddessofSnowandIce: Since you don't have an email addy in your profile:

Thank you 99sportster for the TF sponsorship!

Great, this will end well. Good job giving the antisocial chick another reason to spend more time on the internets while she blames something else for her kids being screwed up. Should have just given her a WoW account so that we can read about all of them starving to death.

All this from someone with the nickname "Emo Computer Jock".


Let's change the focus from you blaming genetics for your failures to login names. That'll teach responsibility and maturity to your admittedly maladjusted kids.

JonnyBGoode

White knight it up gonzo.

Obdicut: GoddessofSnowandIce: All this from someone with the nickname "Emo Computer Jock".

Just what I was thinking.


You're smarter than that.
 
2009-04-29 04:21:40 PM  
What is interesting (or perhaps cruel depending upon your disposition) about this thread and the encyclopedia dramatica entry about AS is that this kind of biting, sarcastic humor is precisely the kind of thing Aspies have difficulty in sussing out. The humor depends upon very subtle social cues about the intent of the humorist.

I've noticed that men in general build friendships with one another in large part through jokes which, superficially, are gratuitously insulting or humiliating. It's a kind of test; if you take offense, you're not inside the group-you just don't get it. Makes perfect sense and I understand its value. Even given my understanding and given that I'm pedantically knowledgable about a wide array of (probably useless) shiat, I still have to stop and consciously consider all the nuances that would indicate whether a given comment is one of these jokes, or an insult. You can tell me to lighten up all you want, but it won't make me any more intuitive about this kind of thing. I have to pay conscious attention to get it.

Think of it like this: driving a car is second nature to anyone who has learned how to do it. It doesn't require conscious attention to the how-do-you-do-it aspects of driving. Sure, you have to be conscious of the conditions and other traffic and pedestrians and so forth, but you don't have to be conscious of how to drive generally speaking. Neurotypical people have the same second-nature, gut-level, intuitive understanding of social situations. Aspies don't. Aspies can achieve some level of social fluency, but it's always consciously achieved. Which means it is learned through conscious attention and the application of all kinds of tortured logic (because much of social interaction is totally farking irrational). It's not easy. And once you gain some understanding of how it works, you still have to maintain that conscious attention to pull it off in practice. Which, that's not easy either. It's kinda like holding a yoga pose-it gets harder the longer you do it.

The upshot is that rejoinders to aspies to "lighten up" about this kind of thing is something akin to rejoinders to blind people for not being able to see. That said, it's still funny-jokes about aspies and blind people.
 
2009-04-29 04:24:34 PM  

MaxxLarge: What the hell is this "autism" I keep hearing about, anyway? Is that just the new designer disorder label we slap on unruly brats we're too lazy to discipline properly?


Ever notice how no one used to be "allergic" to peanuts years ago, either?
 
2009-04-29 04:24:39 PM  

Obdicut: There is a very real phenomenon of people who are actually just socially awkward/weird/inexperienced deciding they have Asperger's, when they really don't. However, that's true of every neurological problem, so I don't know why people assume every single person who says they have it, doesn't.

I had to counsel a friend of mine recently who had convinced himself he had it, and it took a long time to show him that his 'symptoms' did not actually fit those of Asperger's.

What do you think can, should be done about gently letting people know that they don't have Asperger's?

Also, simply out of curiosity, do you find it easier to 'appear' normal on the internet, rather than in person, and if so, why?


I diagnosed myself because my doctor was simply going in the wrong direction. Then I showed him reams of research I had done and he consulted with a colleague and said "oh, yeah." So, medically diagnosed after-the-fact. :p

As for me, I'd have to say of course it's easier to appear normal on the internet. Because you don't have to deal with social cues, body language, personal space, eye contact and a host of other things Aspies have difficulty with and 'normal' people take for granted.
 
2009-04-29 04:25:28 PM  
Momee!! Momee!! Simon is hooome.
 
2009-04-29 04:25:46 PM  

emocomputerjock: You're smarter than that.


Asperger's has a described neurological component. It exists. I'm really not sure why you think it doesn't.

Even if your argument was that it exists solely through feedback loops, it still exists.

As I said: Many people think they have it who don't have it. That does not mean everyone who thinks they have it, does not.
 
2009-04-29 04:26:15 PM  

emocomputerjock: Let's change the focus from you blaming genetics for your failures to login names. That'll teach responsibility and maturity to your admittedly maladjusted kids.


Whereas you've been a fountainhead of good faith and substantive argumentation in this thread. It's just a guess, but maybe if you made an actual argument instead of unsupported assertions, people might, y'know, debate your points. As it stands, the only thing upon which you provide the chance to comment is your churlishness.
 
2009-04-29 04:27:32 PM  

Obdicut: emocomputerjock: You're smarter than that.

Asperger's has a described neurological component. It exists. I'm really not sure why you think it doesn't.

Even if your argument was that it exists solely through feedback loops, it still exists.

As I said: Many people think they have it who don't have it. That does not mean everyone who thinks they have it, does not.


When did it become popular to "think" you have a brain disease?
 
2009-04-29 04:28:16 PM  

kemosabe: KangTheMad: MaxxLarge:
That would be ADHD. Austism is when a child CANNOT mentally socialise properly. Austism is a genetic disorder.

Somebody's sarcasm meter is broken. Might want to look into that chap. And there is a spell checker.

Hopefully my sense of humor isn't broken.


His spelling is fine. It's the British spelling. Your sense of humor isn't broken, just your Brit-fu.
 
2009-04-29 04:28:26 PM  

GoddessofSnowandIce:
I realize my own aspie is showing in thinking that I could inject something substantive into a Fark thread. Forget it, carry on with the fart jokes.

Welcome to my faves list, fellow Aspie. Well said!


Another Aspie reporting. I wished I was that skilled in driving the car when I was 16. Ended up postponing getting my driver's license until I was in my mid-20s.
 
2009-04-29 04:29:27 PM  

malaclypse_the_tertiary: Think of it like this: driving a car is second nature to anyone who has learned how to do it. It doesn't require conscious attention to the how-do-you-do-it aspects of driving. Sure, you have to be conscious of the conditions and other traffic and pedestrians and so forth, but you don't have to be conscious of how to drive generally speaking. Neurotypical people have the same second-nature, gut-level, intuitive understanding of social situations. Aspies don't. Aspies can achieve some level of social fluency, but it's always consciously achieved. Which means it is learned through conscious attention and the application of all kinds of tortured logic (because much of social interaction is totally farking irrational). It's not easy. And once you gain some understanding of how it works, you still have to maintain that conscious attention to pull it off in practice. Which, that's not easy either. It's kinda like holding a yoga pose-it gets harder the longer you do it.


Well put.

As well as what you said about sarcastic humor. Although I've never really had too much trouble with that... what I do have trouble with is when somebody will say something and be hinting at something else through the way they say it or their body language. Totally miss those. Which means I miss a lot of come-ons in bars. And my ex-wife was always pissed off that I'd never get her dropped hints. "Why didn't you do such-and-such?" "You never told me to." "I gave you plenty of hints!" <facepalm>
 
2009-04-29 04:30:55 PM  

Obdicut: GoddessofSnowandIce: All this from someone with the nickname "Emo Computer Jock".

Just what I was thinking.

There is a very real phenomenon of people who are actually just socially awkward/weird/inexperienced deciding they have Asperger's, when they really don't. However, that's true of every neurological problem, so I don't know why people assume every single person who says they have it, doesn't.

I had to counsel a friend of mine recently who had convinced himself he had it, and it took a long time to show him that his 'symptoms' did not actually fit those of Asperger's.

What do you think can, should be done about gently letting people know that they don't have Asperger's?

Also, simply out of curiosity, do you find it easier to 'appear' normal on the internet, rather than in person, and if so, why?

Apologies if this is overly intrusive.


Not intrusive at all. ^_^

My thoughts on it are this: If a person is convinced they have Asperger's (and they really don't), there's nothing you can tell them to convince them they don't (short of dragging them to a doctor for proper analysis). This does not mean that said people don't share similarities in neurological structure to those with AS. If they're using their self-diagnosis for pity and excuses, then it's wrong. If they're using their self-diagnosis as a "boolean search term", so to speak, to be able to seek out self-help resources to work on their individual issues, then I don't see too much harm in it. I've found that learning more about the way the Aspie mind works not only helps me understand my children so as to better assist them through life, but it empowered me to take charge of years of not understanding why I "didn't get it". I've made peace with a lot of things in retrospect and am moving forward. Nothing but good things came of my self-diagnosis, but we all know this is not the case with everyone.

As to my sociability? I feel that I'm a friendly person, and really open up once someone's said the first "hello" and I get a feel for their personality so I can set appropriate limits to my subject material. Most people know me as the oddball eccentric with a head like a human database (co-workers know they can come to me for answers) and a dry/silly sense of humor. My differences are pretty easy to notice, though most people find them endearing once they get to know the brain behind the esoteric. I'd have to say that yes, I'm much more concise with my written communication than I am with my verbal communication. It doesn't mean that I can't hold a conversation in person though.
 
2009-04-29 04:31:21 PM  

malaclypse_the_tertiary: What is interesting (or perhaps cruel depending upon your disposition) about this thread and the encyclopedia dramatica entry about AS is that this kind of biting, sarcastic humor is precisely the kind of thing Aspies have difficulty in sussing out. The humor depends upon very subtle social cues about the intent of the humorist.


It was one of the main reasons I knew that my friend didn't have Asperger's-- he is excellent at subtle, sarcastic humor.

JonnyBGoode: As for me, I'd have to say of course it's easier to appear normal on the internet. Because you don't have to deal with social cues, body language, personal space, eye contact and a host of other things Aspies have difficulty with and 'normal' people take for granted.


I've noticed-- and I mean no offense-- that people with Asperger's tend to act in a less obsessive fashion on the internet, as well.

Background knowledge: I work in toy design, and do some work with developmentally challenged kids all the way from completely functionally retarded up to high-functioning Asperger's kids.

I've noticed that Asperger's sufferers in person tend to be, um, comfortable with twenty-minute long lectures on their favorite subjects, despite missing every cue other than me repeating louder and louder, "You've been going on for a long time now, Timothy!". I've noticed the same kids will be much more limited in volubility in emails, posts on the internet, etc.

Do you find the same thing, and, if so, do you have any theories about why? I've got a few, but I don't want to prejudice you.
 
2009-04-29 04:33:20 PM  

7Mary3and4: When did it become popular to "think" you have a brain disease?


Has been for a long while. Which disorders are currently "in" varies by time.

Right now autism is cool. Does it mean it doesn't exist? No. But there is an aspect of "misunderstood awkward genius, geekier than geek, the people who will really change the world" to some of the popular conceptions of it, and along with the social rise of "geek," there are those who glom on and want to be "on the spectrum" with what they see as the cool kids. I mean, ordinary is boring.

Does that mean it doesn't exist? Again, no.

Some people romanticise depression and bipolar issues, too - "deep, tortured artists, no one can understand them but they are far more creative than other people" etc. The "more emo than emo" to parallel the "geekier than geek" above.

Does that mean depression and bipolar issues don't exist? No, of course not.

But sometimes the "fans" are annoying enough and loud enough that they start making everyone suspect everyone else.

/bog-standard normal
//or so I hear
 
2009-04-29 04:36:14 PM  

GoddessofSnowandIce: My thoughts on it are this: If a person is convinced they have Asperger's (and they really don't), there's nothing you can tell them to convince them they don't (short of dragging them to a doctor for proper analysis). This does not mean that said people don't share similarities in neurological structure to those with AS. If they're using their self-diagnosis for pity and excuses, then it's wrong. If they're using their self-diagnosis as a "boolean search term", so to speak, to be able to seek out self-help resources to work on their individual issues, then I don't see too much harm in it. I've found that learning more about the way the Aspie mind works not only helps me understand my children so as to better assist them through life, but it empowered me to take charge of years of not understanding why I "didn't get it". I've made peace with a lot of things in retrospect and am moving forward. Nothing but good things came of my self-diagnosis, but we all know this is not the case with everyone.



That makes sense. Anyone self-diagnosing has some sort of problem with social interaction, and reading and thinking about social interaction will be helpful to them-- unless they're so closed off they won't accept any contradiction to their preset theories, in which case you wouldn't be able to talk them out of it anyway.

As to my sociability? I feel that I'm a friendly person, and really open up once someone's said the first "hello" and I get a feel for their personality so I can set appropriate limits to my subject material. Most people know me as the oddball eccentric with a head like a human database (co-workers know they can come to me for answers) and a dry/silly sense of humor. My differences are pretty easy to notice, though most people find them endearing once they get to know the brain behind the esoteric. I'd have to say that yes, I'm much more concise with my written communication than I am with my verbal communication. It doesn't mean that I can't hold a conversation in person though.


Thanks. Any thoughts on why conciseness is easier to achieve in written communication, rather than in person?
 
2009-04-29 04:36:21 PM  

Obdicut: emocomputerjock: You're smarter than that.

Asperger's has a described neurological component. It exists. I'm really not sure why you think it doesn't.

Even if your argument was that it exists solely through feedback loops, it still exists.

As I said: Many people think they have it who don't have it. That does not mean everyone who thinks they have it, does not.


I'm positive there's something to the effect out there. I don't think otherwise. But, it's the often self-diagnosed nature of the disease as well as the sacred cow aspect of it that makes it so easy to ridicule. When you take the overly broad definition in combination with the way we're trained to look for the quick fix and easily explainable solution you get a lot of people jumping on a bandwagon and shifting the blame from bratty kids to "it's a diseeeeeease". It's at the point where it's become a catch-all to explain away bad behavior.

I mean, hell, when did foibles and quirkiness become disorders?
 
2009-04-29 04:36:44 PM  

kryrinn:
But autism and aspbergers are related in the brain issues, and with my brother with aspbergers, and a cousin on each side of the family with severe autism, it scares me. I know autism would be likely. So, if I ever choose to have kids, I'll adopt. People need to be a bit more cautious about genetics, I think, before they pop out a few kids. Yes, in some cases it's unpredictable, but if there's a good chance, that's a good opportunity for one of the millions of (non-infant) kids needing homes in the foster care system today.


In fact, I would encourage those who are competent and responsible to consider adoption, regardless of genetic makeup. There are many kids who do need a loving home. The biggest obstacle are the various fees.

We opted not to have children, due to my genetic make-up and Mr Theologian's age. Adoption is too costly for us and many agencies won't approve our application due to husband's age limits.

/(insert VHEMT reference here...Thanks for not breeding!)
 
2009-04-29 04:38:38 PM  

Obdicut: and I mean no offense


www.alicia-logic.com

None taken. :p

Obdicut: I've noticed that Asperger's sufferers in person tend to be, um, comfortable with twenty-minute long lectures on their favorite subjects, despite missing every cue other than me repeating louder and louder, "You've been going on for a long time now, Timothy!". I've noticed the same kids will be much more limited in volubility in emails, posts on the internet, etc.

Do you find the same thing, and, if so, do you have any theories about why? I've got a few, but I don't want to prejudice you.


An interesting observation. I can only surmise that it is partly because a give-and-take style of communication is more artificially enforced in a forum or chat format. And also because we've learned about tl;dr.
 
2009-04-29 04:40:35 PM  

emocomputerjock: I mean, hell, when did foibles and quirkiness become disorders?


When we began to understand the root causes.
 
2009-04-29 04:41:10 PM  

Obdicut:
I've noticed that Asperger's sufferers in person tend to be, um, comfortable with twenty-minute long lectures on their favorite subjects, despite missing every cue other than me repeating louder and louder, "You've been going on for a long time now, Timothy!". I've noticed the same kids will be much more limited in volubility in emails, posts on the internet, etc.


Sorry to interject, since this was aimed at another person. The last theory I read, the one with the greatest credence, was that social cues are hardwired, to a certain degree. People with asperger syndrome lack that hardwiring, to a lesser or greater degree. From the perspective of someone who has asperger syndrome, you are essentially a giant blur. No specific action you take, unless you manage to catch the focus of the child, will stand out of that blur. They aren't ignoring you, they literally did not notice.
 
2009-04-29 04:41:13 PM  

Obdicut: Thanks. Any thoughts on why conciseness is easier to achieve in written communication, rather than in person?


Could also be that written communication is being processed through a different part of the brain than verbal communication.
 
2009-04-29 04:43:53 PM  

JonnyBGoode: I can only surmise that it is partly because a give-and-take style of communication is more artificially enforced in a forum or chat format.


I've found that the forum format allows me the luxury of concisely formating my thoughts.

Actually, chatting on local BBSs is what 'brought me out of my shell' and allowed me to socialize in an environment where I could participate in conversation without the timing issues. I still have timing issues IRL, but I've learned to watch for the problem as I interact.
 
2009-04-29 04:44:10 PM  

Kyosuke: emocomputerjock: I mean, hell, when did foibles and quirkiness become disorders?

When we began to understand the root causes.


There's still the issue of treating them like diseases to be cured. At the same time, there's the issue of using the disease as a blanket to avoid having to correct correctable behaviors.
 
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