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(Ohio.com)   Shots fired into crowd of student rioters at Kent State University. This is not a repeat from 1970   (ohio.com) divider line 153
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23392 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2009 at 5:30 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-04-26 10:25:59 AM  
Thunderpipes: UVM students (in dreadlocks of course) are currently protesting the colleges plan to cut some staff. They are calling for the President to be fired.

Makes alot of sense huh. One idiot got arrested twice in two days. These are all wealthy out of state kids who come here to smoke dope and party. They know nothing.Oh ya, they protested against Israel too. Little Farking Hitler children.


Perhaps that's WHY they're in college? To learn about things like politics and government and history? Tell me, what school did you go to?
 
2009-04-26 10:40:48 AM  
Riot gear and rubber bullets seem like overkill to me. Pepper spray works wonders for stuff like this.

/Went to WVU
//Burned furniture in the streets and got maced
///Learned my lesson
 
das
2009-04-26 10:55:57 AM  
People who throw rocks at people with guns get shot.
 
2009-04-26 10:56:44 AM  
Oh crap, not more of that Neil Young shait again!
 
2009-04-26 11:04:38 AM  
Yesterday, as back then, they should have shot more.

And when you come blubbering about how those Fascist Pigs shot your precious snowflake to death, where will you turn for succor?


I hope you never experience profound personal loss.
 
2009-04-26 11:07:57 AM  
thirdful: Snipe the idiots feeding the fires or flipping cars, charge later. I bet there will be a VERY good chance the others would stop or sober up REAL quick.

OR.....Maybe start shooting back and/or escalate the hostilities. This isn't 1970 and people aren't as controllable as they used to be.

/Or worse yet.....call the LAWYERS!
 
2009-04-26 11:10:18 AM  
PC LOAD LETTER: sonician: No worries. It's early on Sunday and I'm just waking up.

Thought the "Slave" shirt would have been out of place for 1970, sho 'nuff.

People in the 60s-70s put their lives ON the line, rather than standing IN line at Starbucks with a shirt like that, to make their point.

And for what? Apart from an iconic photo of state brutality and some (key word) revision in riot management procedure came out of this? Was the death of people really needed to get that done? Was that even the point of the protest? NO. What other accomplishments did the 60's youth protest movement accomplish? The civil right's movement? That was their own movement, not the youth one (though there was some contribution, with their lives, which should never be forgotten). End of Vietnam? HAHAHA right, which is why it went on until 1975. ERA? Nope. Legalized Pot? Nope. Better treatment of Native American Indians? nope. I'll give you the 26th Amendment.

What came out of the 60's was a fundamental change in CULTURE. Probably the biggest change of culture since the Renaissance or the Age of Pericles. This is the legacy of the 60's. But the idea that their protests actually not only accomplished something, but are the missing ingredient to our culture today is just plain wrong.

/did the protest thing in college in Freshman year
//not a single thing came out of that either


They ended the draft.

Dumbass.
 
2009-04-26 11:11:43 AM  
This incident was mishandled by the police, and obviously the students, but the drunk students are the ones expected to make all the wrong moves.

When the cops first showed up, they were doing things right and just arresting students who were causing problems, obvious underage drinkers, and students who were far too drunk. There was no crowd in the streets, the yards were crowded but there was not one solid crowd and the street itself was clear. After a few hours, they showed up with more cops and started opening fire with a variety of beanbags, pepper bullets(seemed like paintballs made into pepper bombs), and rubber bullets. They were no longer just targeting rowdy students, but everyone. The house I was in got shot into several times, for no reason other than having open windows, the material from all the pepper bullets made the air in the house unbreathable. Many people could not get though the house to get outside. So many people in the house went to the roof to escape, where they were shot once again with the variety of weapons, for simply trying to escape the house.

During this is when the crowd became unruly fought stupid with more stupid and started a huge fire. The police retreated as they saw the fire start, and ended up getting all of their vehicles blocked into one end of the street. After the fire was started, the first real danger of the night, the police did nothing to stop it for at least an hour. Then finally the police attempted to again take control, and did so. This allowed the fire department to come in and put out the fire, and an additional that was started while they did so.

Once the fires were out, the police finally started using bullhorns to tell the now breaking crowd to disperse. Most of the students smart enough to avoid the riot had been hiding inside houses waiting for things to die down so they could go home and saw this as a sign it was a safe to leave. Ironically, the cops shot at anyone trying to leave, but kept telling everyone to go home. At this point, few people were outside, many were pinned inside houses, just wanting to go home, and there were no fires anymore. It continued like this for a long time.

Like I said the police mishandled this incident early one, and turned a peaceful, albeit illegal, party, into a full blown riot.

/my eyes still burn
 
2009-04-26 11:14:27 AM  
Perhaps that's WHY they're in college? To learn about things like politics and government and history? Tell me, what school did you go to?

No. They go to smoke dope, get laid, and party. Not a bad thing, but, they do it on daddy's money and act like asshats. They are not there to learn about government or politics, if they were, they would actually read about the issues instead of blindly protest what Moveon.org tells them to.

I am still in school, 3 finals next week. Oh, I work a more than full time job. Even if I wanted to protest something, would have no time.
 
2009-04-26 11:16:42 AM  
lajimi: thirdful: Snipe the idiots feeding the fires or flipping cars, charge later. I bet there will be a VERY good chance the others would stop or sober up REAL quick.

OR.....Maybe start shooting back and/or escalate the hostilities. This isn't 1970 and people aren't as controllable as they used to be.

/Or worse yet.....call the LAWYERS!


Right, cause if a man is lighting all your stuff on fire when drunk. Then joined by others, we should just talk to him to calm him down as he is putting gas on all the furniture. Better yet just wait until he cools down and goes home, or he might sue the PD for shooting him. Cause fires dont spread to other areas and arent really deadly, just pretty lights.
 
2009-04-26 11:19:02 AM  
rutsh: Riot gear and rubber bullets seem like overkill to me. Pepper spray works wonders for stuff like this.

Nah, thats what blister gas is for. Much more effective in large crowds.
 
2009-04-26 11:24:20 AM  
Doctor Jan Itor: Anyone know what actually started it? Article didn't say.

Another College St. riot? No! In late April? When it's been warm on a weekend for the first time in months? Get outta here.

/Can't read, can't write, Kent State!
 
2009-04-26 11:28:24 AM  
fredklein: Azeroth: acanuck: Rubber Bullets can kill, yes, "A 3-year-old girl was killed last week by a rubber bullet in a township near Pretoria." 3 farking years old.

Victoria Snelgrove (new window) was 21 years old when she died when an FN 303 blunt trauma / pepper spray projectile hit her in her eye, causing her to bleed excessively.

/They placed the police officer involved in the incident on leave.
//Prosecutor refused to prosecute any of the officers involved.
///What else do you expect?




Why was 3 year old at a protest? GBTW and STFU and this wouldn't happen.
 
2009-04-26 11:30:33 AM  
Yogimus: Why was 3 year old at a protest? GBTW and STFU and this wouldn't happen.

Exactly! Protests never solve ANYTHING. EVAR!!! People who protest are so unAmerican!
 
2009-04-26 12:08:56 PM  
stickintehmud: Why do colleges keep doing these "Party weekends" things?!

I've been to two colleges. The first one had entertainers come and perform every few weeks all year long. The second had about 10 acts all performing in one weekend. The one weekend thing always ended in several hospitalizations and arrests.

Which do you think is the better idea?


If it's anything like the #2 university in Kansas, the party weekends continue because it costs the school nothing, generates revenue for the bars and liquor stores, is paid for by the taxpayers, and is not occurring in the well-off neighborhoods. Win-win, right?

/neighbors are getting ready to burn the place down.
//they have a pile of broken pallets with a flip-n-fark on top, just waiting to torch
///if a tornado doesn't kill us all first
////so tired of people burning furniture
 
2009-04-26 12:17:44 PM  
tonesskin: Yogimus: Why was 3 year old at a protest? GBTW and STFU and this wouldn't happen.

Exactly! Protests never solve ANYTHING. EVAR!!! People who protest are so unAmerican!



Works about as well as voting...
 
2009-04-26 12:34:43 PM  
Wow, people are actually taking the side of the officers at Kent State?

This site *has* gone full retard.
 
2009-04-26 12:40:26 PM  
lajimi: /Yes, I remember that day
//Yes, I'm old


Somebody once said something to the effect that if soldiers fire 67 shots at hundreds of rioters there are only two acceptable results. The first is 67 dead rioters the second is 67 bullet holes in surrounding trees and buildings. Any other result indicates that the soldiers were not really concerned at what they were shooting at.
 
2009-04-26 12:43:17 PM  
Swampthing in Korea: Sometimes killing protestors, armed only with their hatred of moral clarity, is a necessary thing.

you know who else killed protestors because of their lack of 'moral clarity'?


that's right.
 
2009-04-26 12:49:56 PM  
Drunken_Sobriety: This incident was mishandled by the police, and obviously the students, but the drunk students are the ones expected to make all the wrong moves.

When the cops first showed up, they were doing things right and just arresting students who were causing problems, obvious underage drinkers, and students who were far too drunk. There was no crowd in the streets, the yards were crowded but there was not one solid crowd and the street itself was clear. After a few hours, they showed up with more cops and started opening fire with a variety of beanbags, pepper bullets(seemed like paintballs made into pepper bombs), and rubber bullets. They were no longer just targeting rowdy students, but everyone. The house I was in got shot into several times, for no reason other than having open windows, the material from all the pepper bullets made the air in the house unbreathable. Many people could not get though the house to get outside. So many people in the house went to the roof to escape, where they were shot once again with the variety of weapons, for simply trying to escape the house.

During this is when the crowd became unruly fought stupid with more stupid and started a huge fire. The police retreated as they saw the fire start, and ended up getting all of their vehicles blocked into one end of the street. After the fire was started, the first real danger of the night, the police did nothing to stop it for at least an hour. Then finally the police attempted to again take control, and did so. This allowed the fire department to come in and put out the fire, and an additional that was started while they did so.

Once the fires were out, the police finally started using bullhorns to tell the now breaking crowd to disperse. Most of the students smart enough to avoid the riot had been hiding inside houses waiting for things to die down so they could go home and saw this as a sign it was a safe to leave. Ironically, the cops shot at anyone trying to leave, but kept telling everyone to go home. At this point, few people were outside, many were pinned inside houses, just wanting to go home, and there were no fires anymore. It continued like this for a long time.

Like I said the police mishandled this incident early one, and turned a peaceful, albeit illegal, party, into a full blown riot.

/my eyes still burn


So they just started targeting people on lawns?
Did the officers issue any command to disperse between picking off folks to arrest, and reinforcements arriving for the forceful dispersion phase? Just curious. Thanks for the first hand account of the situation.
 
2009-04-26 01:01:43 PM  
Caveo Pardus:
So they just started targeting people on lawns?

Yes, and people in houses and on porches.

Did the officers issue any command to disperse between picking off folks to arrest, and reinforcements arriving for the forceful dispersion phase? Just curious. Thanks for the first hand account of the situation.

I never heard an order to disperse until after the second fire and reinforcements showed up. If they were giving orders to disperse before that, they did a terrible job of getting it out, since nobody I knew had heard one until after the shooting, fires, and arrests.

If the cops had handled the situation like they usually do around here, which is a large presence, arrests, threats of fines, etc, but not started shooting, things would have ended much better. The latter of these is often the best, as most college kids can't afford fines after buying all of the beer etc for the party. Once they started shooting, all hell broke loose.
 
2009-04-26 01:11:32 PM  
hasty ambush: lajimi: /Yes, I remember that day
//Yes, I'm old

Somebody once said something to the effect that if soldiers fire 67 shots at hundreds of rioters there are only two acceptable results. The first is 67 dead rioters the second is 67 bullet holes in surrounding trees and buildings. Any other result indicates that the soldiers were not really concerned at what they were shooting at.


"At this point, at 12:22 PM, a number of guardsmen at the top of the hill abruptly turned and fired their M1 Garand rifles at the students. The guardsmen directed their fire not at the closest students, who were on the Taylor Hall veranda, but at those on the grass area and concrete walkway below the veranda, at those on the service road between the veranda and the parking lot, and at those in the parking lot. Bullets were not sprayed in all directions; instead, they were confined to a fairly limited line of fire leading from the top of the hill to the parking lot. Not all the soldiers who fired their weapons directed their fire into the students. Some soldiers fired into the ground, while a few fired into the air. In all, 29 of the 77 guardsmen claimed to have fired their weapons, using a final total of 67 bullets. The shooting was determined to have lasted only 13 seconds, although a New York Times reporter stated that "it appeared to go on, as a solid volley, for perhaps a full minute or a little longer." The question of why the shots were fired remains widely debated."
ref:
Thirteen seconds; confrontation at Kent State.

All in all instead of a direct order to shoot rioters we have a clear case poor discipline and even poorer marksmanship in the Ohio National Guard.
 
2009-04-26 01:17:16 PM  
jso2897: Thunderpipes: lajimi: 1066: lajimi: /Yes, I remember that day
//Yes, I'm old

Yesterday, as back then, they should have shot more.

So then, you support state sanctioned murder? Good for you AND your beer swilling buddies. Cold blooded murder of unarmed civilians, now THAT'S what I call a well ordered militia! Perhaps Jethro the janitor from the elementary school isn't REALLY qualified to carry and use an automatic weapon and Zeke the gas station attendant isn't the best choice for a commander.

Perhaps if they were in class, working their job as well, they would not have time to cause problems? Its not murder to gun down a protester that gets violent, it is thinning the herd to remove contagious diseases. Liberals are simply bad people, and everything they do leads to problems.

10/10

Well, that's original. I've never seen anyone rate their own trolls before.


Yeah, but he does it as convincingly as his trolls...

Sort of the self-marketing equivalent of 'New and Improved!' that when you look at the package you're just NOT sold on it.

/Cue the "Stacey! With new hat!" pic...
 
2009-04-26 01:20:39 PM  
stickintehmud: Why do colleges keep doing these "Party weekends" things?!

I've been to two colleges. The first one had entertainers come and perform every few weeks all year long. The second had about 10 acts all performing in one weekend. The one weekend thing always ended in several hospitalizations and arrests.

Which do you think is the better idea?


Basically? They do it to attract admissions from the kids who have money, not much brains, but who didn't get scooped up by the competition (owing to the "not much brains" parts). That way they get to fill the coffers from kids who will likely drop out anyway, and most of the school year isn't raucous (they hope).

This is esp. true of schools that don't have a lot of research departments to "subsidize" the departments that don't generate income themselves. (A prof I had said that what she paid in "overhead" charges for her grants basically paid for the entire English department.)
 
2009-04-26 01:34:10 PM  
lajimi: /Yes, I remember that day
//Yes, I'm old


Dad?
 
2009-04-26 01:42:49 PM  
Case of beer, $12.00

Can of lighter fluid, $6.99

Box of matches, $.69

rubber buckshot shotshell. $4.99

Lesson in civility: Priceless.

There are some things money can't buy...

For everything else, there's marxistcard.
 
2009-04-26 01:52:06 PM  
Seriously. They should just threaten to call in the National Guard every time something like this happens at Kent State. Remind them that only one of the four individuals killed [during the shooting] died instantly; the rest bled out.
 
2009-04-26 01:53:51 PM  
What's in the water up there? Oh, wait, it wasn't water. Seems that Al K. Hol was involved. Drunk, stupid college kids trying to get killed in order to make the news. And, to make their 'rents so very proud.
 
2009-04-26 02:00:10 PM  
puppywuppy: It will not stop until a crowd like that one day holds there ground and fires back at the police in mass with Teflon type bullets.

Military armor piercing and keep firing till not one cop is left standing.


This sounds like a great way to end up with all the students being dead.

Oh, and you're an idiot.
 
2009-04-26 02:02:49 PM  
dna_level_c: DEVO

Glenechocreek: Yeah, it's just like those dirty hippies to burn everything in sight and swing from trees chanting "KSU" KSU!"

Devo isn't so funny anymore now that it's become reality.

/for further reference, see the move The Idiocracy.


Truth. I'm this close to going outside every day with a hunting vest that says "Don't Shoot! I'm a Man!" And, with my luck, that just means I'll be shot deliberately.
 
2009-04-26 02:16:29 PM  
Drunken_Sobriety: Like I said the police mishandled this incident early one, and turned a peaceful, albeit illegal, party, into a full blown riot.

Dunno.

They wanted to shoot some kids, and they got to shoot some kids. Sounds perfectly executed to me.
 
2009-04-26 02:20:10 PM  
jso2897: I can't think of any incident in my youth that got more egregiously overblown and misrepresented. What really happened at Kent State was that, in the course of a very typical protest of the time, a couple of scared kids in the National Guard, who were not being competently commanded, got put in a situation they had not been trained to handle and made a tragic mistake. And that's all it was - a tragic, avoidable incident. But attributing things to deliberate evil is a lot more fun than attributing them to incompetence, so today we have the mythos of the "Kent State Shootings"
Just another one of the preposterous distortions of what really happened in the sixties that people believe today.
And yes, I was around then, and yes, I was in the movement, and yes, I'm older than mastodon dung.
You may vacate my lawn at the earliest available opportunity.


http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_J._Hanlon
 
2009-04-26 02:52:45 PM  
"People who throw rocks at people with guns get shot."

Half the casualties, including the ROTC guy, weren't throwing rocks or even threatening anyone.

/People who post crap on the Internet get it thrown back at them.
 
2009-04-26 03:06:45 PM  
Thunderpipes: Perhaps that's WHY they're in college? To learn about things like politics and government and history? Tell me, what school did you go to?

No. They go to smoke dope, get laid, and party. Not a bad thing, but, they do it on daddy's money and act like asshats. They are not there to learn about government or politics, if they were, they would actually read about the issues instead of blindly protest what Moveon.org tells them to.

I am still in school, 3 finals next week. Oh, I work a more than full time job. Even if I wanted to protest something, would have no time.


If you work a full time job you are either a part-time student or aren't in a very hard major. I'm guessing it's both.
 
2009-04-26 03:33:22 PM  
Yeah... Shots fired. Also, police regularly call upon the mighty power of Zeus to hurl lightning bolts and unruly suspects.
 
2009-04-26 03:53:57 PM  

Hey, Thundernipples:

i236.photobucket.com
 
2009-04-26 04:00:07 PM  
farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2009-04-26 04:01:57 PM  
Wow the trolls in this thread really suck.
 
2009-04-26 04:41:55 PM  
Swampthing in Korea: moral

Nicely said Lord Rahl
 
2009-04-26 05:35:45 PM  
I really hate this pissing match between Akron and Kent State.

Always trying to out-do the other.
 
2009-04-26 05:53:20 PM  
Gill said some students showed her welts.

Wooo! Show us your welts!!
 
2009-04-26 06:22:42 PM  
mamoru: Odd that I never noticed before. *shrug*

It's a better rendition of the photo than what usually gets posted.
 
2009-04-26 07:42:12 PM  
Pants full of macaroni!!: ".... I bagged four that day! There's nothing like hippie hunting! My dad used to take me out with Lee Harvey Oswald!"

You know something Macaroni? I like you. You're not like the other people here in the trailer park.
 
2009-04-26 07:49:27 PM  
Hosebeatings: You know something Macaroni? I like you. You're not like the other people here in the trailer park.

... But Bill Jr, He was a DAREDEVIL! Just like his old man!
 
2009-04-26 07:57:20 PM  
Hickory-smoked: Hosebeatings: You know something Macaroni? I like you. You're not like the other people here in the trailer park.

... But Bill Jr, He was a DAREDEVIL! Just like his old man!


Probably spent a lot of time looking up in trees for burrow owls too.
 
2009-04-26 09:33:08 PM  
My cousin was at the original shooting in 1970, so I'm not really getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2009-04-26 11:26:08 PM  
Four Bruised In Ohio
 
2009-04-26 11:27:15 PM  
Pants full of macaroni!!: ".... I bagged four that day! There's nothing like hippie hunting! My dad used to take me out with Lee Harvey Oswald!"

/oh, we're rockin' now!


How do you hide money from a hippie?

Put it under the soap!
 
2009-04-26 11:55:52 PM  
College street is nothing but fraternity rapists and douchebags. Old Town Homes is where it to get out of control back in the day.
 
2009-04-26 11:56:17 PM  
Swampthing in Korea: Sometimes killing protestors, armed only with their hatred of moral clarity, is a necessary thing.

I see what you did there, Mr Rahl.
 
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