jeff95350: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox "possibly 8-1, if Thomas wants to be a dick"Can you refer to another similar case relating to the 4th amendment, parental rights, school rights, or drug abuse cases where Thomas cast a vote that would make you think he will vote for the school in this case?The question above is legitimate, don't take it as an argument. It did catch me off guard though, because Thomas voted for Raich in Gonzales v Raich, and voted for Kelo in Kelo v New London.Thomas is a conservative justice before he's a conservative politician (in contrast, O'Connor was a conservative politician first, and a conservative justice second). And he's also an originalist, which indicates to me that he will vote based on the language of the 4th, which is pretty clear if you ask me.
tbyte: I wonder how often the teachers get strip-searched for their pack of Rolaids.
Bucky Katt: You know he was in his office pleasuring himself while the search happened. He's a sicko.
xpennyroyaltyx: well. i'm not trying to belabour the point or be a contrarian, but most teachers are over the age of 18 and do not need parental consent to take medication.
Weaver95: Sad commentary on our times that the court system and the war on drugs has farked up the public school system so badly that you can't trust them to do their jobs anymore.
Weaver95: If the supreme court decides that this sort of thing is ok, then i'm going to demand strip searches of elected officials and mandatory drug testing for everyone holding any public office.
Weaver95: xpennyroyaltyx: FWIW, The VP is quoted as saying in TFA that the suspected pills were only available by prescription.And he knew this how, exactly? I think he made that bullshiat up after the fact.
tbyte: People under 18 don't need parental consent to take ibuprofen either, unless there are brand new laws on the books.
Dictatorial_Flair: What's really moronic is that even if he's right and they really are only available with a prescription in that strength, it's the exact same thing as taking 400mg worth of the ibuprofen you can buy in any gas station or grocery store. There's no functional difference whatsoever except that one requires swallowing fewer pills.
stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: Sad commentary on our times that the court system and the war on drugs has farked up the public school system so badly that you can't trust them to do their jobs anymore.You don't seem to understand the public school system's job. It's not to educate the next generation of leaders--that's what we have private and parochial schools for.Public schools are here to indoctrinate the masses into conformity, unquestioning obedience, and a worker-consumer lifestyle that will benefit business. Their prison-like atmosphere is engineered to help prepare people for the time they will be spending in jail (or in the office), and their zero-tolerance policies prepare them for a life of obeying arbitrary laws and arbitrarily appointed authority figures.If public schools are successful, your kids will come out with a healthy craving for Pepsi, distrust of free thinkers, and a cooperative, servant-like attitude toward employers and the police.The court system has not farked anything up. The system is operating as designed.
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: I guess I'm basing it mostly on his majority opinion in Board of Education vs. Earls, in which the Court said that blanket drug testing of students who participate in extracurricular activities was okay, because they aren't adults, they're in the custody of the school, drug abuse is a serious health risk, etc. It touches on some of the same issues as this case. I think the facts of this case would be sufficiently bad that the majority justices, including Thomas, would consider this unreasonable. But if there were going to be a lone dissent, it would probably be him. I like Thomas on a number of issues, in fact in Grutter he wrote perhaps the best dissent I have ever read, but every once in a while he has some whacko dissent, like in Hamdan where he argued for a practically unrestricted unitary executive theory, which is why I qualified my 9-0 prediction.
muck4doo: What irks me the most is that many equate indoctrination with education
Dictatorial_Flair: You got that prison system feeling out of being in public school too, eh?
stiletto_the_wise: Dictatorial_Flair: You got that prison system feeling out of being in public school too, eh?Hell, I got that feeling in the nineties. Apparently it's even worse now. Armed guards, metal detectors, arbitrary rules, arbitrary punishments, zero tolerance, random searches, strip searches, random drug tests, drug-sniffing dogs, reduced/nonexistent civil rights, assault and threats of assault from others, "lock down" policies, increasingly unaccountable and legally guarded administration...What do you call it, if not "prison"?
stiletto_the_wise: What do you call it, if not "prison"?
tbyte: I would guess the important distinction though is that they are testing for illegal drugs in that case, am I right? Ibuprofen isn't any more illegal than bubblegum, at least in my state.
Xetal: The principle needs to be charged and register as a sex offender.
jcsturgeon: Zero tolerance policies make me want to run for office.No one understands the insanity of the criminal justice system until they or someone they know is victimized by it. Zero tolerance HAS never worked to prevent any type of crime and it's victimized thousands of students. It was a political move by a politician who wanted to look tough on crime and public safety so they could secure votes and no one has the balls to retract it because, like I said... no one understands the system until they see it in practice.
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Xetal: The principle needs to be charged and register as a sex offender.No, he really doesn't. He just exercised bad judgment as to what was justified under current case law in performing his administrative duty to keep the children under his care safe. Also, it's "principal."
bogey: So my question for xpennyroyaltyx: Since you think strip searching a 13 yo girl is ok at least some of the time. . .
Dictatorial_Flair: It's no wonder out recidivism rates are so high, you get convicted once and you're screwed for life from every side.
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: I believe a prescription was required for it in the state in which this occurred, making it technically an illegal substance. Also, the school had a policy against it, which would most likely be within their discretion under state law.
anoise: How much trouble was there with young people, before we started throwing kids into prison, back before the school system was imposed?before parents stopped raising them properly?
Dictatorial_Flair: Sex offenders frequently exercise awful judgment. If people can get slapped on the list for public urination and statutory rape of their teenage girlfriend a few months younger than them, I don't see any reason an idiot school admin can't get put on there for his forced ibuprofen-related peepshow.
xpennyroyaltyx: it has been established that the working definition of "strip search" in our district is not the same as it is in the U.S.
xpennyroyaltyx: if you honestly think the admin's next step would be to "throw her over a desk and rip her clothes off" then that reveals some sexually twisted and dark part of you mind, not mine.
tbyte: As for the second point, if the administration was executing the strip-search in accordance with policy then this situation is even more farked up, not less.
stiletto_the_wise: many employers now ask if you were ever merely "accused" of a crime, rather than asking whether you've been convicted
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: tbyte: As for the second point, if the administration was executing the strip-search in accordance with policy then this situation is even more farked up, not less.I don't think the strip search was within their policy, and I agree with you that that wouldn't make it right even if it was. What I meant was that they had a school policy against having drugs on school grounds, and that's probably within their discretion to reasonably enforce.
bogey: That's a cop out. TFA clearly stated what was involved in this strip search.
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Name one.
Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Dictatorial_Flair: Sex offenders frequently exercise awful judgment. If people can get slapped on the list for public urination and statutory rape of their teenage girlfriend a few months younger than them, I don't see any reason an idiot school admin can't get put on there for his forced ibuprofen-related peepshow.I don't agree with making those activities "sex crimes" either or requiring them to register as "sex offenders," but that's the point. We should reserve that kind of treatment and sentencing for the really terrible criminals, not some administrator who made a bad call for the stated purpose of ensuring student safety. He probably just isn't the brightest bulb, or is the kind of person who gives in to hysteria. I seriously doubt he's a child molester based on the facts of this case alone.There should be a different standard based upon the fact that he is an administrator in charge of the safety of children. What he did was outside of permissible discretion, but we can't have schoolteachers and administrators afraid of being sued in federal court on 4th Amendment violations or thrown in jail every time they send a kid to timeout or confiscate something dangerous. We have to keep some perspective, what he did was bad, but it's not like he raped her. As far as we know, he did a limited visual search for the drugs and that was it. I'd be livid as a parent as well, but having this guy thrown in jail as a sex offender would be asinine.
Cheops: Why is it that our constitutional guarantees must be applied to terrorists, but they shouldn't be applied to students in public schools?
Jeffrey.Rodriguez: I would, in no uncertain terms, shoot the farking school administrator in the head if they strip searched my kid.
xpennyroyaltyx: i have also said that strip searches should be allowed in schools based on the definition of what constitutes a strip search in our district, which does not necessarily mean that a student has to remove clothing in the nature described in the article.
xpennyroyaltyx: anoise: How much trouble was there with young people, before we started throwing kids into prison, back before the school system was imposed?before parents stopped raising them properly?FTFY.
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