If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   "For me, telling children there's an Easter Bunny would be on a continuum with telling children there's a God, since I don't believe either"   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 253
    More: Dumbass  
•       •       •

8729 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Apr 2009 at 10:03 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



253 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2009-04-12 01:58:00 PM
DeRosso:
Try the Ro-Dong, it has a range of 1,000 to 1,300 km but is unfortunately for one time uses only.


I have nothing to counter that with but a lame Reader's Digest level-quip about making the earth move.

/Or something involving ho?
 
2009-04-12 02:04:18 PM
She has children?
 
2009-04-12 02:04:22 PM
Hey Tatsuma, isn't it against your religion to use a computer during Passover? I had to stop texting this 18 year old Jewish chick I'm interested in during passover, because electronics are somehow "making fire."
 
2009-04-12 02:12:07 PM
jack21221: Hey Tatsuma, isn't it against your religion to use a computer during Passover?

Today isn't a yom tov, it's Chol Hamoed.

Also, if she's shomer Shabbos, you should move on.
 
2009-04-12 02:14:17 PM
Tsunami Ditka: Did you even READ the article?

You expect Tatsuma to read something that doesn't have to do with Zionism? There are far too many out there to have time for that!!

cxjohn: I love hypocrisy. Any self-proclaimed athiest who still says a God using the proper name and capital letter is just a person in denial. You recognize God exists, you even call him by name, you just deny his sovereignty over the world.

Won't you feel stupid in the end.
Heck, you even capitalize Easter. Your self-loathing is at an all time high.


5/10

I'm amused by the angle, but you're still trying too hard.

Tatsuma: To me that was an extremely obnoxious article where she hammered over and over how much of an atheist she is. She used bloody Easter as a springboard to talk about it.

...and it's somehow worse than using it as a constant springboard to tell you how some dude died for your sins, so WORSHIP HIM, DAMMIT!!!~!

We get plenty of articles talking about the "secularism of holidays" and plenty of overly pious articles lamenting just that and going on about "true meanings," etc. How many do we get coming from a different angle?

This was coming from a different angle.

Excepting it's from an angle you don't care for, so you've decided to be a dick about it. SHOCK.


Yesterday I was bemused watching my 8-year-old nephew, born to agnostic-atheist-parents who go to temple, hunting for Easter Eggs at his grandmother's house, after which he was happily eating any number of hametz while his parents weren't, though they told him to at least refrain from partaking of the Pillsbury rolls.

It's such an amusing and irrelevant mish-mosh these days.

t3knomanser: I didn't have Santa or the Easter Bunny, but I had Captain Kirk and Doctor Who. In retrospect, I much prefer the way I was raised.

To be fair, their way leads to a lot less slash fiction than your way, which is probably for the better.

Uncle Tractor: A four year old can find more wonders in a muddy ditch than there are in the entire bible.

Mud. Is. AWESOME.

Though with kids you have to watch out. They're apt to hop up and down on one of those muddy holes where the surface tension is ramped way up and it seems like you're jumping on strong Jell-o, only at one point you pierce through, and then your legs get stuck and start sinking in, and the whole thing is kind of like a quicksand trap, and you can't get out until an adult helps drag you up, but you lose your shoes...

Not that I know any of this from personal experience or anything.

Shut up.

karmachameleon: So, Tats makes a juvenile comment about us being basement-dwelling video gamers, is responded to by someone who makes a genuinely profound comment about teaching your children the wonders of science, and you think Tats won the exchange? You just might be more idiotic than he is.

Doesn't take long to come to that conclusion, no.

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Your surname is Le Trôle.
 
2009-04-12 02:17:14 PM
She's a science major, but her family is very conservative... I'm not sure what sect. Her religion tells her the world is 6000 years old, her reason and intellect tells her it is 4.5 billion or so. So, she's just all mixed up... I'd like to rescue her from fundamentalism. :-p
 
2009-04-12 02:20:10 PM
Tatsuma:

Also, if she's shomer Shabbos, you should move on.


He should also understand the cleanliness aspects. Went to shul for a year, damn near converted for the guy I was with and the whole shebang falls apart when I realize he seriously isn't going to touch me for 3 days a month. you find out all sorts of shiat is "unclean."

/buh bye
//I mean, the dude did blow, but was aghast at the idea of redwings
///no longer really believe in mixed marriges
 
2009-04-12 02:22:06 PM
Good for her!
 
2009-04-12 02:22:50 PM
H_is_for_Heretic: He should also understand the cleanliness aspects. Went to shul for a year, damn near converted for the guy I was with and the whole shebang falls apart when I realize he seriously isn't going to touch me for 3 days a month. you find out all sorts of shiat is "unclean."

3 days? Make that 14.
 
2009-04-12 02:32:46 PM
Tatsuma:

3 days? Make that 14.



He was only medium-psycho. When he started wanting me to dress a certain way during menstruation as a reminder and to quell temptation, that was full out psycho. I do respect that the restrictions probably makes the sex that you're allowed wicked-hot.

/14? I knew it was like that that with you, but I didn't know it was like that
//still adore jewish men
 
2009-04-12 02:34:38 PM
I used the adjective "conservative" but I just learned that means something else for Judiasm.

After reading up on shabbat, I can now see why so many Jews become lawyers. They twist some actions to circumvent a law ("selling" their bakery to a non-Jew and buying it back after the holiday), and other times they twist a law to include things not mentioned, like calling electricity "fire."
 
2009-04-12 02:34:46 PM
H_is_for_Heretic: I do respect that the restrictions probably makes the sex that you're allowed wicked-hot.

That's the thing, there is a lot of excitement that comes with the 14 days. Your favorite meal is awesome, but if you eat it everyday, all the time, whenever you want it, it gets boring. If you actually have to stop yourself from eating it even when you really want it, for a period of time, then when you can partake again, it's much better.

/14? I knew it was like that that with you, but I didn't know it was like that

Yup, 14 days total...
 
2009-04-12 02:41:09 PM
Why when people want to tell you how they're not part of the majority do they have to be such douchebags?

"I'm different. Look at me! I don't like chocolate. My dad loves grape juice."

Go shove a pineapple up your ass.
 
2009-04-12 02:43:39 PM
Clock Spider Jerusalem: It's a Spring fertility/renewal festival. Why not take time to teach your kids about reproduction?

As for me, I will never forgive my parents for the stories they told me about the Arbor Day Alligator, which would bite you in half and leave your intestines strewn all over the yard if you didn't plant a tree. Then again, my father seemed to actually believe in the Kidney Stone Fairy. Or maybe that was all the pain killers. But he did find $10 under his pillow in the morning.




Kidney stone fairy. I LoLd. No one else gets why this is so damn funny.
 
2009-04-12 02:52:44 PM
In every group of parents there has to be that one parent who is so much better than you. The parent who never lets their kid eat anything with sugar, the one who eats only organic food, the one who never lets their kids watch TV, the one whos kid is so much smarter than yours because they don't believe in God or Santa or the Easter Bunny or anything like that. It's a status thing.

I'm scared because now I will have to associate with this type of parent when the firstborn goes to kindergarten. God help me I might habve to strangle said parent.
 
2009-04-12 02:56:51 PM
Personally, I'm glad my parents raised me to believe that Santa, Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy were just fun stories. It never took the fun out of anything. Do you have to believe that Harry Potter is a real person to enjoy the books?

I'm glad I didn't go through that whole "Santa isn't real?" trauma my friends did.

Raising me to believe in my dad's version of god, however, did really mess me up for a while. Thankfully, I've come to a belief in much more loving deities that also have the virtue of making sense.
 
2009-04-12 03:12:01 PM
Tatsuma: That's the thing, there is a lot of excitement that comes with the 14 days. Your favorite meal is awesome, but if you eat it everyday, all the time, whenever you want it, it gets boring. If you actually have to stop yourself from eating it even when you really want it, for a period of time, then when you can partake again, it's much better.

Uh, no. Sex only gets boring if you're doing it wrong, Tats. With hundreds of possible positions, props, toys, outfits, etc., variety is inherent.

You aren't one of those "missionary-only, eyes-closed, lights-off" people, are you?
 
2009-04-12 03:13:11 PM
Theaetetus: You aren't one of those "missionary-only, eyes-closed, lights-off" people, are you?

What? Of course not. That's about as much as I'll discuss about it, but definitely not.
 
2009-04-12 03:14:16 PM
johnrhyse: Reading this thread has illustrated several things to me given me an opportunity to regurgitate a trite and vague statement that I've heard from others without any specific application to this thread.

FTFY.
 
2009-04-12 03:15:19 PM
Tatsuma:

That's the thing, there is a lot of excitement that comes with the 14 days. Your favorite meal is awesome, but if you eat it everyday, all the time, whenever you want it, it gets boring. If you actually have to stop yourself from eating it even when you really want it, for a period of time, then when you can partake again, it's much better.


That's true for most physical pleasures. For the orgasm though, it's different. I've eaten just to stop the hunger, gotten high and had no joy in it, but every orgasm is anticipated, exciting. Perhaps the path to get there needs a little leather or humiliation, but the poutcome seems to be the only activity outside of breathing with no diminishing returns. But of course sex has repercussions beyond the o, so I respect the system ya'll worked out in an absence of prophylactics, and the exercise in restraint is valuable.
 
2009-04-12 03:18:43 PM
Tatsuma: Theaetetus: You aren't one of those "missionary-only, eyes-closed, lights-off" people, are you?

What? Of course not. That's about as much as I'll discuss about it, but definitely not.


Well, then why the "Your favorite meal is awesome, but if you eat it everyday, all the time, whenever you want it, it gets boring."
The equivalent would be saying "reading is awesome, but if you read everyday, all the time, whenever you want, it gets boring," and is blind to the fact that there is a nearly-infinite amount of material of different sorts to read. Reading only one book over and over would get boring, but variety alleviates that. Claiming that reading is better if you stop and don't read anything for 14 days is just silly.
 
2009-04-12 03:19:34 PM
H_is_for_Heretic: poutcome

Heh.
 
2009-04-12 03:37:30 PM
johnrhyse: My comment was neither trite nor vague.

Pfff. We've heard the old "atheists have faith too" argument over and over, and those presenting it never own up to the fact that they're defining the word 'faith' in a different way, not consistent with any dictionary. This is highly disingenuous.
So, yes. Both trite, in that you're not saying anything that hasn't already been discussed many, many, many times before, and vague, in that your statement cited no examples and was directed towards no one, but rather atheists in general.
In short, you added nothing to the discussion, so my dismissal of your attempt was completely warranted.
 
2009-04-12 03:45:02 PM
That Mary was not cherry.
 
2009-04-12 04:26:11 PM
johnrhyse:
I am new to Fark but I am by now a veteran of at least six "atheist v. religion" threads. It appears that the same arguments are made over and over again by each side.


Yes, such as this one:

A: "Atheists have faith too! You have faith that God doesn't exist without proof!"
B: "That's not faith. Faith refers specifically to beliefs that are not based on either logical or material proof. For example, I believe that 2+2=4, but I do not have faith that 2+2=4. Instead, it can be logically proven through inherent qualities of the system. Similarly, I believe that the statement 'this statement is a lie' is a paradox, but I do not have faith that it is. It can be again proven logically, without requiring material evidence.
Similarly, one can believe that a god or gods do not exist through logical contradictions in their claimed qualities (equivalent to believing that 2+2 does not equal 50), and through logical inference due to lack of evidence. These beliefs are supported by logical proof, and, just like 2+2=4, are not based on faith."

So, yeah, we've been here before. Your definition of faith is one synonymous with belief. This is not supported even by your claimed dictionary definition, which correctly points out that faith is merely a subset of belief - e.g. those which are not based on any proof, material or logical.
 
Ant
2009-04-12 04:35:06 PM
My wife and I are atheists, and our son believes in the Easter Bunny. He's 4 years old though. If he still believes when he's a teenager, then we'll worry.
 
Ant
2009-04-12 04:40:12 PM
cxjohn: I love hypocrisy. Any self-proclaimed athiest who still says a God using the proper name and capital letter is just a person in denial. You recognize God exists, you even call him by name, you just deny his sovereignty over the world.

Won't you feel stupid in the end.
Heck, you even capitalize Easter. Your self-loathing is at an all time high.


Bugs Bunny is fictional too. See how I've capitalized his name?
 
2009-04-12 04:49:07 PM
Did you even read the article, subby?

"Perhaps the essence of Easter for this particular family is craftsmanship and artifice. Human ingenuity - not a bad thing to celebrate. Forget about rebirth and renewal: how can we make an egg inside an egg inside an egg?"

How dare these dumbasses spend creative time with their families? Suck a rotten Easter egg, submitter.
 
2009-04-12 04:56:33 PM
Meh... the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus are just "starter gods" for children.

They're both beings who perform "miracles" without actually being seen and your asked to have faith in them and honor their rules to avoid punishment.

The only difference between these gods and "God" is that the miracles are present in the form of physical gifts (presents and candy) rather than being mere coincidences, and the punishment is either nothing or lumps of coal (a replacement for the "fire and brimstone" that make up the popular vision of Hell). Instead of the ten commandments, you have "santa claus is coming to town".

Then, as you get older, you are forced into transitioning your semi-blind faith in santa claus, etc... into actual blind faith for the far less amusing "God", who's only real present is that you get to dodge the occasional bullet of suffering in favor of some other poor bastard...

People should be ashamed of themselves for misleading someone as young and naive as a child with something "shiny" like santa just to sucker them into a life of guilt to just to fulfill their own personal agenda of raising unthinking like-minded sheep under the label of "tradition".
 
2009-04-12 05:16:41 PM
johnrhyse: Theaetetus: I do not have faith that it is. It can be again proven logically, without requiring material evidence.

You seem incapable of understanding that the existence or non existence of a universal higher power cannot either be proven or disproved empirically.


But it may be inferred logically, thus leading to a belief. As I said and you have FAILED to address, your definition of faith as synonymous with "belief" is incompatible with the dictionary definition you posted.

No scientist or mathematician of vision and insight believes as you do.

Bzzt - No True Scotsman fallacy, coupled with an implied ad hominem. Obviously a scientist of vision and insight believes as I do, because I am a scientist of vision and insight and I believe as I do.

I for one find the irony of your position intriguing and the basic intellectual dishonesty of the position to be striking.

I find your blatant redirection from my previous post - where I pointed out that, as I said originally, your argument is based on a false definition of the word faith - to be intellectually dishonest, and frankly, rude.
I took the time to respond to your arguments. You ignored my response. I think we're done, since we're obviously not having a conversation.
 
2009-04-12 05:18:07 PM
I'm not sure why we've got a Dumbass tag up there; the only dumbasses are the ones who lie to their kids. That's gunna build a strong parent-child relationship... /sarcasm.
 
2009-04-12 05:20:31 PM
johnrhyse: Theaetetus: I do not have faith that it is. It can be again proven logically, without requiring material evidence.

You seem incapable of understanding that the existence or non existence of a universal higher power cannot either be proven or disproved empirically.


Oh, and this is a lie. You intentionally misquoted me, cutting off the sentence halfway through.
Here's the original quote, in context.
"Similarly, I believe that the statement 'this statement is a lie' is a paradox, but I do not have faith that it is. It can be again proven logically, without requiring material evidence."

That statement cannot be proven or disproven empirically, either. It is in the same realm as the existence or non-existence of a universal higher power. All can be disproven as a logical inference, without requiring empirical evidence.
 
2009-04-12 05:23:03 PM
It's really funny that Tatsuma has you guys all twisted up.

Even if he/she/it really believes what he/she/it is saying, you are just feeding the troll.

Haven't you learned that yet?


P.S. tatsuma has probably never had sex of any kind.
 
2009-04-12 05:26:01 PM
johnrhyse: Theaetetus: I do not have faith that it is. It can be again proven logically, without requiring material evidence.

You seem incapable of understanding that the existence or non existence of a universal higher power cannot either be proven or disproved empirically. No scientist or mathematician of vision and insight believes as you do. Sagan, Einstein and Dawkins all take the more intellectually honest approach and say that while the existence of a personal God is unlikely the existence of as Dawkins termed it in the God Delusion "the God of the Philosophers" is written large in the language of mathematics and in the wonder of the universe. They admit that it is unknown and indeed unknowable.

Your position is based on a primitive, rather uninspired type of positivism and is either indicative of a lack of understanding of the nature of knowledge or evidence of precisely the same kind of blind faith exhibited by all fundies.

I for one find the irony of your position intriguing and the basic intellectual dishonesty of the position to be striking.


The null hypothesis would like a word with you.

The null hypothesis is what keeps me from having to prove there is no teacup orbiting between Earth and Mars.
 
2009-04-12 05:38:07 PM
jack21221: The null hypothesis would like a word with you.

The null hypothesis is what keeps me from having to prove there is no teacup orbiting between Earth and Mars.



The null hypothesis would like to point out it's limitations, and when pushed to its limits, it shows any atheist can become just as batshiat irrational as any religious fundamentalist.

atheism is just a philosophical position. get over it.

/mathematician and scientist.
 
2009-04-12 05:41:10 PM
Did I ever tell you guys about the dragon in my garage?
 
2009-04-12 05:44:58 PM
 
2009-04-12 06:29:46 PM
img11.imageshack.us

Happy Easter!
 
2009-04-12 06:32:44 PM
kerpal32: jack21221: Did I ever tell you guys about the dragon in my garage?

did anyone ever explain to you that one-sidedness through oversimplification is the reason many people think some atheists are complete douche-bags?


One-sidedness requires ignoring evidence. Are you implying that jack actually does have a dragon in his garage, and we're just ignoring evidence of it?
 
2009-04-12 07:23:29 PM
cxjohn: I love hypocrisy. Any self-proclaimed athiest who still says a God using the proper name and capital letter is just a person in denial. You recognize God exists, you even call him by name, you just deny his sovereignty over the world.

Won't you feel stupid in the end.
Heck, you even capitalize Easter. Your self-loathing is at an all time high.


Umm, I would capitalize Thor yet I don't believe he ever existed. You generally capitalize people's names. It just happens that this particular imaginary dude is such a megalomaniac that he decided to name himself God.

We generally capitalize holidays too.
 
2009-04-12 07:34:39 PM
Theaetetus: One-sidedness requires ignoring evidence. Are you implying that jack actually does have a dragon in his garage, and we're just ignoring evidence of it?

no, it is also through "over simplification"

- atheism is a philosophical position
- science cannot disprove theistic or deistic philosophies
- making mocking comparisons between theism / deism and disproving 'dragons in your garage' is a fallacy of one sidedness

- if you think those types of comments, or null hypothesis invalidate other philosophies, you create similar self refuting arguments that are as irrational as any religious fundamentalist's

- if you REALLY push the issue and think having a philosophical position based on rationalism, materialism and strict reductionism disproves or invalidates other philosophical positions on existence, you really are creating a self refuting argument that's on par with any religious fundamentalist.


Like I noted, atheism is a philosophical position. It does not invalidate or disprove other philosophical positions.

"The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?"
~Stephen Hawking

"Rationalists are admirable beings, but rationalism is a hideous monster when it claims for itself omnipotence. Attribution of omnipotence to reason is as bad a piece of idolatry as is worship of a stick and stone believing it to be God."
~Ghandi
 
2009-04-12 07:43:15 PM
kerpal32: Like I noted, atheism is a philosophical position. It does not invalidate or disprove other philosophical positions.

I always find it interesting when those demanding "proof" of the mind or being of a deity forget that Philosophy of Mind has a real hard time "proving" the existence of the bank teller in front of me. When they've got "that other minds outside my own" trip down, then I'll worry about proving the existence of deities.
 
2009-04-12 07:53:37 PM
kerpal32: no, it is also through "over simplification"

- atheism is a philosophical position


I lol'd.

Nicely played, sir.
 
2009-04-12 08:02:34 PM
Somacandra: kerpal32: Like I noted, atheism is a philosophical position. It does not invalidate or disprove other philosophical positions.

I always find it interesting when those demanding "proof" of the mind or being of a deity forget that Philosophy of Mind has a real hard time "proving" the existence of the bank teller in front of me. When they've got "that other minds outside my own" trip down, then I'll worry about proving the existence of deities.


I won't even go down that road. I believe in reality. I simply believe we're limited in understanding and defining it. Much less WHY (if there is a reason) does reality go to all the bother of existing. But if you cannot accept that there are paradoxes, you're as bad as any religious fundamentalist.

And I always find it interesting that there are those who think the philosophy of a God existing outside of time and space is (and must be) a testable scientific theory governed by the laws of the observable universe under materialistic A priori criteria and act like it were post priori knowledge based on empiricism encompassing all of metaphysics.

And think confusing their personal opinions with facts and inserting their personal philosophy as the sole basis of ALL philosophy is "rational".

oh, and atheism is just a philosophical position --- FT Link FM
 
2009-04-12 08:08:16 PM
I'm not a believer either, but I don't not believe so I can be smug about it. Clearly, this author is all about that.

Of course, how could someone so ugly believe in a God..I AM RIGHT?
 
2009-04-12 09:11:17 PM
Wow this beech is a buzz kill.
 
2009-04-12 10:15:14 PM
Tatsuma: She could have called that article "I suck the fun out of life.

Please give me attention I'm speshul I don't buy into the ideas of 'fun', 'pleasure' and 'making life exciting to children'."


I don't need to read the rest of the thread to see this. Post a pic of Debbie Downer, and then another of Santa being drug behind a corner and shot.

Imagination and wonder are a part of childhood. There are decades and decades of sober boredom.
 
2009-04-12 10:23:21 PM
voodoorat: i don't think it's really that horrible but it does seem odd that in the two biggest christian religious holidays a core part of the traditional (if not religious really) celebration involves lying to kids. this when on the face of it the spirit of the ninth commandment seems to go against that sort of thing.

i love kids' imaginations and playing with them (witches and pirates and princes and fairy tales and such) but i wouldn't ever tell them that dragons or unicorns really exist to the point of getting angry at somebody about it.


No one expects kids to believe in Santa Claus forever or in the Easter Bunny forever. These kinds of make believe games are just played as part of having fun during childhood, and around age 6 or 7 (or younger if the child has older siblings, lol), the child will start to doubt and the truth will come out. There's no crying, only a temporary stunned feeling as they come to terms with the belief being quashed.

This is great preparation for later in life when they stop believing in God. There was a period where I felt like I was adrift with no plan any longer.. but I realized after a while nothing had actually changed. Just like the candy and presents kept coming long after I stopped believing in Santa and the easter bunny, I still have the same ehtics and morals, and my prayers get answered at the exact same (random chance) rate that they did before. Well, not quite, now I don't bother praying. But there's not actually anything lost.

And there's really no harm in lying to the kids, it's more a fantasy. You don't tell kids about the harsh realities of the world either.. is that lying?
 
2009-04-13 04:10:52 AM
kerpal32: atheism is just a philosophical position. get over it.

It's not even that; atheism is just an absence of belief in gods.
 
2009-04-13 06:09:36 AM
I enjoyed Susan McCarthy's "Happy atheist Easter" article, and I celebrate her humanist creativity in re-interpreting and re-inventing festive activities for her family - for which the 'Dumbass' tag is singularly inapprropriate.

I've three nephews 10 and under, and they know I'm an atheist and a marxist. This year I (not the Easter Bunny) helped stage a chocolate hunt for 'em; previously we've painted eggs together (mine reads 'Workers of all countries, unite!' ;-) I enourage them to read myths, and enjoy the imaginative human creativity of different cultures - Norse, Greek, Egyptian, ... etc. - and realise that valkyries, Odin, centaurs, Zeus, sphinx, Aten, ... etc. are no more 'real' than elves, Santa, fairies, Easter Bunny, angels, Yaweh, devils, God, djinns, Allah ... etc. But also, there's loads of fun to be had in playing "let's pretend", with the more imaginative surrealistic humour the better!

As they become old enough to challenge parental/societal/clerical authority, I hope they'll have sufficient free-thinking, skeptical, philosophical tools to hand (from me and others) to choose their own independent worldviews; and I'd hope those'll be bright, naturalistic, and rational. But until we've built a non-exploitative, classless, moneyless, borderless and ecologically harmonious global human community, IMO we can expect to be burdened by dim, supernatural and irrational faiths in diverse religious 'opiums of the people', exploited by elites to divide-&-rule us.

Up the revolution!
 
Displayed 50 of 253 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report