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(Telegraph)   Womens shelters ordered to help male victims of domestic violence or have their funding cut off   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 381
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6791 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Apr 2009 at 9:07 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-04-05 10:04:33 AM
I've been told that many shelters won't take in children of abused women if they're boys over the age of 12? Given that offering services to abused men would effectively nullify that rule, I'm all for it, and a little horrified to think of the men that have nowhere to go. The abused women will probably handle the sight of a Man better than the shelters think.
 
2009-04-05 10:04:36 AM
lewismarktwo: Yeah, cause all men are the same and those men (all 12 of them) who were abused just can't wait to pay the abuse forward to the first women they come across.

Or maybe it's a good idea to expose abused women to non abusive men who might understand what they were going through so, you know, the abused women realize that all men aren't scum?


All those guys really understand abuse.

NSFW warning
NSFW (new window)


/ Sorry... I couldn't help it.
 
2009-04-05 10:06:58 AM
IKillBugs:

An ex-girlfriend attacked me in my apartment with a claw hammer. After hitting me twice, I clocked her, breaking her nose. My room mates girlfriend called the cops, telling them exactly what happened, and Still I was the one in cuffs. So I've seen what happens when men report abuse. When I was uncuffed, I was told I handled it like "a real man" by the responding officer.

Once again, if men would let go of the need to be a tough guy, and report this more often, the issue would see the light of day.


Men are ALWAYS viewed as the guilty ones in these situations. Of course it's blatant sexism but because it's against those evil, evil white males, people laugh it off.

People need to stop defining sexism and racism as having specific targets and start realizing that it's a behavior pattern that can place anyone as a victim. Even those incredibly awful white anglo-saxon protestant males.
 
2009-04-05 10:07:13 AM
IKillBugs: Miss Smartass: People who think this is a bad idea are sexist. If they want equality, they need to know that it's not only women that can be abused.

I agree that not only women are abused, but I can also see a need for either separate or at least segregated (by gender only) facilities, as women are the more common victims. Dedicating the same resources to problems of greatly differing problems is foolish.


You are right. On another note, I would like to see the NAACP help the brown, tan, white and red skinned people. Those are all colors too. How well would a NAAWP go over?
 
2009-04-05 10:10:27 AM
Miss Harwin said: "Women do appreciate being engaged in women-only organisations. When you have been disempowered and had no control of your life it's important for a lot of women to see that this is an organisation run by women for womenagainst men."

Fixed
 
2009-04-05 10:11:27 AM
TFA: "unintended consequence"

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

When laws were put in place forbidding you from using public money, contributed by all genders and races, to benefit only one gender or race, they pretty much had scenarios like this in mind.
 
2009-04-05 10:12:19 AM
takesthecake: IKillBugs: Miss Smartass: People who think this is a bad idea are sexist. If they want equality, they need to know that it's not only women that can be abused.

I agree that not only women are abused, but I can also see a need for either separate or at least segregated (by gender only) facilities, as women are the more common victims. Dedicating the same resources to problems of greatly differing problems is foolish.

You are right. On another note, I would like to see the NAACP help the brown, tan, white and red skinned people. Those are all colors too. How well would a NAAWP go over?


That's hilarious.

Shouldn't it instead just be NAAP?

National Association for the Advancement of People. I like the sound of that
 
2009-04-05 10:14:20 AM
CrispFlows: Shouldn't it instead just be NAAP?

National Association for the Advancement of People. I like the sound of that


Has a nice ring to it.
 
2009-04-05 10:14:31 AM
CrispFlows: That's hilarious.

Shouldn't it instead just be NAAP?

National Association for the Advancement of People. I like the sound of that


We can't have that. Because if everyone is special, then no one is.
 
2009-04-05 10:15:07 AM
Wouldn't it be a VERY good idea to show the women that they can be safe around men?

These womens shelters seem to isolate the victim. Make them feel that they can ONLY be safe around other women. It just casts all men as abusers, and it is highly sexist towards men. And frankly, I'm sick of this bullshiat where the male is always the perp, and the woman is always the victim.
 
2009-04-05 10:18:19 AM
annoyed_grunt:
Men are ALWAYS viewed as the guilty ones in these situations. Of course it's blatant sexism but because it's against those evil, evil white males, people laugh it off.

People need to stop defining sexism and racism as having specific targets and start realizing that it's a behavior pattern that can place anyone as a victim. Even those incredibly awful white anglo-saxon protestant males.


Citation needed--no really. Tell me where this is stated or STFU. No one that I know of with half a brain thinks that men are always the instigators of abuse. It is a documented face, however, that men are about 3 times more likely to kill their SO's than women are.
 
2009-04-05 10:18:24 AM
And now I'll go consult a dictionary. Maybe learn how to use this 'spellchecker' thingy.
 
2009-04-05 10:19:36 AM
There should be help available for men who are victims of domestic abuse. I dunno how you swing building shelters except in the largest urban centers, because it's still more likely that a woman needs to get completely out of the house with her kids. If sex-segregated centers are necessary.

Somebody outta build some unisex shelters and compare them with sex-segregated ones and measure the outcomes. Evidence-based social work, it's what's for dinner.

\Is it wrong that I envision a men's shelter to look like Milhouse's dad's bachelor apartments?
\\With beds that look like sports cars
 
2009-04-05 10:20:06 AM
Unsung_Hero: And now I'll go consult a dictionary. Maybe learn how to use this 'spellchecker' thingy.

Wuzza spelchequer?
 
2009-04-05 10:21:55 AM
DRTFT.

Domestic violence shelters should be for victims of domestic violence, regardless of gender.
 
2009-04-05 10:22:02 AM
dead_dangler: CrispFlows: That's hilarious.

Shouldn't it instead just be NAAP?

National Association for the Advancement of People. I like the sound of that

We can't have that. Because if everyone is special, then no one is.


They are.

Think about it, What does NAACP do?

What if their efforts is applied for any injustice instead of racism?
 
2009-04-05 10:23:03 AM
Reminds me of the episode of Law and Order when three women rape their male stripper.

The defendant of one of the women used the argument that three women wouldn't be able to overpower a man.

I mean, I know it's fiction, but c'mon, that's just plain insulting
 
2009-04-05 10:23:05 AM
IKillBugs: Ask: Are they though? I seem to recall men being abused at the same rate as women but reporting it less often because there's a general tendency to think they should just toughen up and stop being such a nanvy boy. I can't seem to find the link though.

If the problem isn't reported, then how can you plan for it? If you fund for it, and no one uses it, wouldn't that be wasteful? There are real issues here, and blaming or punishing womens only facilities isn't the answer. The real issue is mens inability to let go of being "the tough guy".


Guess what happens if a guy does report it. He runs a serious risk of going to jail.

In Texas, for example, the police are supposed to believe anyone who says they are abused, and then let the DA and courts sort it out. In theory this was supposed to protect women who refused to press charges.

So a woman starts hitting or choking a guy and he grabs her wrist to stop her. If the police show up and she says he abused her, they are supposed to arrest him, just based on her word.

An ex who was mad I wouldn't let her take my car started slapping me. She was drunk and when I grabbed her wrist to stop her she tried to pull away to hit me again and fell down. The police were called and she told them I'd hit her and knocked her down. We both ended up in the back of cruisers.

I was very fortunate that a sergeant showed up and basically ignored the law. He looked at me, with what was eventually going to be a big bruise on my face, and her, with only marks from my fingers on her wrist, and told the young cop who had handcuffed me that he was an idiot. But to let me go he had to let her go too because he would have gotten in trouble if she had made it to the jail.

After that do you think I'd be real eager to call the police if I got hit?
 
2009-04-05 10:23:51 AM
cryinoutloud: annoyed_grunt:
Men are ALWAYS viewed as the guilty ones in these situations. Of course it's blatant sexism but because it's against those evil, evil white males, people laugh it off.

People need to stop defining sexism and racism as having specific targets and start realizing that it's a behavior pattern that can place anyone as a victim. Even those incredibly awful white anglo-saxon protestant males.

Citation needed--no really. Tell me where this is stated or STFU. No one that I know of with half a brain thinks that men are always the instigators of abuse. It is a documented face, however, that men are about 3 times more likely to kill their SO's than women are.



Here's one: Husband Battering (new window)

There's a list of other references at the end of the article.
 
2009-04-05 10:24:56 AM
The stupidity to stay in an abusive relationship transcends gender. I'm surprised the ACLU isn't all over this.

On a related note, they shouldn't discriminate at the UNCF, either.
 
2009-04-05 10:29:13 AM
SharkTrager: Guess what happens if a guy does report it. He runs a serious risk of going to jail.

In Texas, for example, the police are supposed to believe anyone who says they are abused, and then let the DA and courts sort it out. In theory this was supposed to protect women who refused to press charges.

So a woman starts hitting or choking a guy and he grabs her wrist to stop her. If the police show up and she says he abused her, they are supposed to arrest him, just based on her word.

An ex who was mad I wouldn't let her take my car started slapping me. She was drunk and when I grabbed her wrist to stop her she tried to pull away to hit me again and fell down. The police were called and she told them I'd hit her and knocked her down. We both ended up in the back of cruisers.

I was very fortunate that a sergeant showed up and basically ignored the law. He looked at me, with what was eventually going to be a big bruise on my face, and her, with only marks from my fingers on her wrist, and told the young cop who had handcuffed me that he was an idiot. But to let me go he had to let her go too because he would have gotten in trouble if she had made it to the jail.

After that do you think I'd be real eager to call the police if I got hit?


This was the point I was trying to make, trozman, men are assumed to be responsible for, not victims of abuse.
 
2009-04-05 10:36:04 AM
While we're telling stories about how "equal" the law is in these cases, around these parts it's the man who gets carted off to a holding cell on domestics. Even if he's the one who called it in.

"We have to separate you two, so he's coming with us."
"Wait, wut...?"
 
2009-04-05 10:37:59 AM
cryinoutloud: It is a documented face, however, that men are about 3 times more likely to kill their SO's than women are.

That's because women are 3 times as likely to never SHUT THE fark UP
 
2009-04-05 10:39:15 AM
I dated a woman once that not only hit me but did it in public. One time I came home late and locked her out of the bedroom so she kicked open the door and attacked me. A little bit later there was a knock at the door and it was the police. Turns out the neighbor heard and called them. The police asked me what happened and I told them she attacked me, they asked her if it was turn, she admitted it and the police then said they could arrest her if I wanted them to do so. I decided against it (we split up a week later)

You can bet if the roles were reversed, I would of been taken away in handcuffs.

/happened in Los Angeles
 
2009-04-05 10:40:17 AM
Number of violent victimizations
committed by intimates


Male

1992 145,650
1993 163,558
1993 176,168
1994 115,483
1995 147,896

Female
1992 952,188
1993 1,072,072
1994 1,003,16
1995 953,683
1996 837,899

Note: Intimates for the NCVS include current or former
spouses, boyfriends, and girlfriends. Intimates for the SHR
include spouses, ex-spouses, common-law spouses, same
sex partners, boyfriends, and girlfriends.

Violent victimizations
include rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated
and simple assault, as measured by the NCVS, and murder
as reported by law enforcement agencies to the FBI. Data
are for victims age 12 or older.

Sources: BJS, National Crime Victimization Survey
(NCVS), 1992-96, and FBI, Supplementary Homicide
 
2009-04-05 10:40:33 AM
rhelaien: So they can't make 'men's shelters' where men don't have to worry about being constantly watched for any wrong move while they're trying to get back on their feet?

They could, but then women's groups will get their panties all twisted and demand (upon threat of legal action) equal access due to the evil menscrimination taking place.

"Equality" in modern terms is a bunch of self-interest groups fighting over the largest slice of pie, while insisting "well, we all got some, didn't we?"
 
2009-04-05 10:41:49 AM
Woo hoo! Another thread where men get to express their anger at women getting all the breaks in life!

I will say that reading this thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions. I initially thought the whole situation was pretty stupid. However, having thought it over, provided the shelters were set up so that everyone felt safe and comfortable, it probably wouldn't be a bad thing for abused women and abused men to be able to heal together. They would probably benefit from each other's experiences.

I still don't see the problem with having some separate shelters for women AND men. Likely some people from both categories might be more likely to seek help if they could get a temporary separation from people they have learned to fear and there's an argument for providing victim of abuse with a supportive environment of people they can readily identify with. If every relationship you've had with a man from your father to your boyfriends has been abusive (and ditto with women), it might be appealing to be able to just be around other members of the same sex for a time until you feel secure enough to start having healthy interactions with the opposite gender.

Ultimately, I think there should be resources for both abused men and women, but they don't NEED to be in the same place in every instance.
 
2009-04-05 10:42:41 AM
tin_man
cryinoutloud: It is a documented face, however, that men are about 3 times more likely to kill their SO's than women are.

That's because women are 3 times as likely to never SHUT THE fark UP


Yeah those damn mouthy women begging for the man to stop, to not kill her, to let her go crawling back to mother. They just need to STFU.
 
2009-04-05 10:43:01 AM
annoyed_grunt: IKillBugs:

An ex-girlfriend attacked me in my apartment with a claw hammer. After hitting me twice, I clocked her, breaking her nose. My room mates girlfriend called the cops, telling them exactly what happened, and Still I was the one in cuffs. So I've seen what happens when men report abuse. When I was uncuffed, I was told I handled it like "a real man" by the responding officer.

Once again, if men would let go of the need to be a tough guy, and report this more often, the issue would see the light of day.

Men are ALWAYS viewed as the guilty ones in these situations. Of course it's blatant sexism but because it's against those evil, evil white males, people laugh it off.


See also: Chris Brown. Chris Brown is verbally and physically abused by Rihanna (the reasons why are irrelevant, as in 'wearing jeans doesnt mean you deserved to be raped' irrelevant); he can't take it anymore, and fights back.......... making HIM the evil one, and her the the precious little innocent angel. Now, Chris Brown is fighting death threats against himself, while Rihanna gets to pretend she never always had those big lips and big nose with the assistance of creative make-up tips and the assistance of pap shots from side angles.

IKillBugs should NEVER have been placed in handcuffs by himself. His ex should have been charged with him; and frankly, she should have been charged alone. The only way this is going to stop is not for men to drop the 'tough guy' bullshiat (because women believe in and exploit the 'tough guy' bullshiat too) but for the law to step in and force a cultural change that is simply not going to happen by itself.

As for women's shelters, how many women exploit them because they were advised that going to one would help their divorce case? How many men would love assistance, and to feel that they will be safe from some psychobiatch pulling a 'I bust the windows out yo car' (new window)? These shelters need to help EVERYONE. If they don't want to help everyone, they don't get to take government money.

/a special fark-you to Jazmine Sullivan; and to Trey Songz for excusing the madness.
 
2009-04-05 10:46:29 AM
cryinoutloud: Number of violent victimizations
committed by intimates


Male
1992 145,650
1993 163,558
1993 176,168
1994 115,483
1995 147,896

Female
1992 952,188
1993 1,072,072
1994 1,003,16
1995 953,683
1996 837,899


Thank you!

Your statistics clearly show that violence against men is significantly under-reported and not taken seriously.
 
2009-04-05 10:50:12 AM
I had an ex that would literally lay in front of the door during arguments so I couldn't leave. I tried to lightly push her out of the way once, but she started screaming abuse and that she was going to call the cops. After that incident, I would just have a war of attrition with her and wait it out on the other side of the kitchen. There wasn't really much I could do, who are the cops going to believe?
 
2009-04-05 10:51:40 AM
dead_dangler:
Your statistics clearly show that violence against men is significantly under-reported and not taken seriously.
e

You know, women don't report it either, also at very high rates. My ex knocked me around several times before the police got involved--and that was only because he did it right next door to the police station. You know what they did? They covered it up.
 
2009-04-05 10:54:24 AM
cryinoutloud: annoyed_grunt:
Men are ALWAYS viewed as the guilty ones in these situations. Of course it's blatant sexism but because it's against those evil, evil white males, people laugh it off.

People need to stop defining sexism and racism as having specific targets and start realizing that it's a behavior pattern that can place anyone as a victim. Even those incredibly awful white anglo-saxon protestant males.

Citation needed--no really. Tell me where this is stated or STFU. No one that I know of with half a brain thinks that men are always the instigators of abuse. It is a documented face, however, that men are about 3 times more likely to kill their SO's than women are.


And the previous point which brought in date rape was that, just because something isn't documented doesn't mean it isn't happening. Reporting makes a BIG difference. If date rape isn't being reported, does that mean it doesn't exist? If men are culturally conditioned -- or are PUNISHED (like IKillCars, SharkTrager and HeyHeyJerky) for reporting being abused -- what do the numbers really mean?

Men need assistance. They need it bad. Their unique suffering in a culture which punishes them for suffering needs to be acknowledged.

/female
//for men's rights, too
///been there, on both sides
 
2009-04-05 10:54:53 AM
THANK YOU! *applause*

I'm getting really sick of all the politically-correct anti-male sexism in society.

The latest BS I saw was a Facebook "Cause" called "real men never hit a woman" or something like that. Well guess who the beneficiary group for donations was? A lesbian-oriented LGBT charity! Guess what? There are similar rates of domestic violence among lesbian couples. So shouldn't their group be called "a real woman never hits a woman" or something? Don't they care about lesbians, being a lesbian group, or do they care more about spreading the sexist man-hate?


Actually, what I get from that cause would be "real men" are gay or transgender. Not necessarily a sexist agenda. But I could be wrong.
 
2009-04-05 10:55:02 AM
OK Farkers of both sexes - why did you put up with this crap?

I've never been with a man who hit me. I expect that were a man to hit me, I would walk out on him and not go back. Why do you put up with that first hit? or that first tantrum of lying across the door?
 
2009-04-05 10:56:00 AM
SharkTrager: Guess what happens if a guy does report it. He runs a serious risk of going to jail.

In Texas, for example, the police are supposed to believe anyone who says they are abused, and then let the DA and courts sort it out. In theory this was supposed to protect women who refused to press charges.

So a woman starts hitting or choking a guy and he grabs her wrist to stop her. If the police show up and she says he abused her, they are supposed to arrest him, just based on her word.

An ex who was mad I wouldn't let her take my car started slapping me. She was drunk and when I grabbed her wrist to stop her she tried to pull away to hit me again and fell down. The police were called and she told them I'd hit her and knocked her down. We both ended up in the back of cruisers.

I was very fortunate that a sergeant showed up and basically ignored the law. He looked at me, with what was eventually going to be a big bruise on my face, and her, with only marks from my fingers on her wrist, and told the young cop who had handcuffed me that he was an idiot. But to let me go he had to let her go too because he would have gotten in trouble if she had made it to the jail.

After that do you think I'd be real eager to call the police if I got hit?


Did you really want to press charges? It doesn't sound like either of you was hurt badly enough that anyone needed to be jailed. The law says that they should have pressed charges for you, but it sounds like the sergeant just didn't feel it was worth the hassle. She wasn't hurt. You had a bruise and didn't really want to press charges anyway. Neither of you probably seemed like a threat to the other now that the argument was over. Why do all the paperwork? I guess he felt that way because he's sexist.
 
2009-04-05 10:56:15 AM
cryinoutloud: dead_dangler:
Your statistics clearly show that violence against men is significantly under-reported and not taken seriously.e

You know, women don't report it either, also at very high rates. My ex knocked me around several times before the police got involved--and that was only because he did it right next door to the police station. You know what they did? They covered it up.


So what other crimes against certain groups of people can we ignore because they don't happen at an extremely high rate to them?

I don't think many Asians are killed compared to blacks and latinos, so it's OK now!
 
2009-04-05 10:57:22 AM
Also, I should point out that you were both arrested and both released. It doesn't sound all that sexist to me.
 
2009-04-05 11:00:25 AM
Egalitarian: OK Farkers of both sexes - why did you put up with this crap?

I've never been with a man who hit me. I expect that were a man to hit me, I would walk out on him and not go back. Why do you put up with that first hit? or that first tantrum of lying across the door?


There are a lot of documents out there showing may the many reasons that women stay, as far as men, the first reason has been stated already, no one will believe a man was battered, combined with laws that require men to be carted of in a dv call, that and shame.
 
2009-04-05 11:00:41 AM
Egalitarian: OK Farkers of both sexes - why did you put up with this crap?

I've never been with a man who hit me. I expect that were a man to hit me, I would walk out on him and not go back. Why do you put up with that first hit? or that first tantrum of lying across the door?


Having been in a relationship where I had the crap beat out of me, I love the lofty viewpoints some people make of "why not just leave".

Well let's see, I grabbed my car keys and was promptly thrown to the ground, keys ripped from my hand and thrown somewhere. Trying to get out is not always an option. Ok so why not leave the following day when things have cooled down? Well, if you live with the person, getting your stuff out quickly is not always a possibility.

Call the cops? Broken cell phone.

Let's say you do get out. If the person is that unbalanced, do you think they are just going to say "Ohmigod I hit her, she had every right to leave?". NO! They're going to track you down and ruin your family, friends, etc.

Then there is always the hope that it was simply a fluke. Not to mention, the average person does try to defend themselves. So you view yourself as guilty as the "offending" party.

So to simplify this to such a level is frankly insulting to the person involved in the relationship. No matter how dysfunctional.
 
2009-04-05 11:02:12 AM
disestablishmenator:
The latest BS I saw was a Facebook "Cause" called "real men never hit a woman" or something like that. Well guess who the beneficiary group for donations was? A lesbian-oriented LGBT charity! Guess what? There are similar rates of domestic violence among lesbian couples. So shouldn't their group be called "a real woman never hits a woman" or something? Don't they care about lesbians, being a lesbian group, or do they care more about spreading the sexist man-hate?


Thank you -- because you're right, the money should not have gone to a LGBT charity. Thank you for pointing out the underdocumented abuse that happens in lesbian (and homosexuals to also be honest) relationships; and where that money, outreach and education should have gone.

If someone from that organization who happens to post here can provide 'the other side', please do.
 
2009-04-05 11:03:28 AM
tiamet4: Also, I should point out that you were both arrested and both released. It doesn't sound all that sexist to me.

It's sexist because SharkTrager was (almost) arrested for defending himself in a reasonable and non-violent manner.

Your comments and attitude suggest that you subscribe to the notion that men cannot ever be victims of domestic abuse, and if they are, then they must have done something to deserve it.
 
2009-04-05 11:03:29 AM
tiamet4: Also, I should point out that you were both arrested and both released. It doesn't sound all that sexist to me.

I was never arrested, charges were not filed. Had there not been 6 witnesses, I don't my story would have ended the same.

And yes, I feel bad that I broke her nose.
/She was mad that I had started dating again after we broke up.
 
2009-04-05 11:03:38 AM
my woman hits me, but she says the bruises prove her love for me so its ok.
 
2009-04-05 11:05:18 AM
Anastacya: Call the cops? Broken cell phone.

I'm sorry, but this is the worst excuse I've ever heard in my life.
 
2009-04-05 11:06:26 AM
Egalitarian: OK Farkers of both sexes - why did you put up with this crap? I've never been with a man who hit me. I expect that were a man to hit me, I would walk out on him and not go back. Why do you put up with that first hit? or that first tantrum of lying across the door?

Because like in Trey Songz answer song............

/You can throw fits, throw bricks, you still gonna be my chick
/See i can deal with come crazyness
/I mean you love me

/Come back home baby, come back home, i need you bad
/hey!
/She bust the windows of my car..



Like I said, been on both sides. "Love" makes you do stupid shiat.
 
2009-04-05 11:06:53 AM
I certainly appreciate that a woman might want to take refuge in a male-free environment in the wake of a domestic assault. Additionally, male victims are exceedingly rare, enough so to warrant special, case-by-case treatment. It seems to me that a simple workaround would be to allow men to come in and have a specific protocol that involves shuttling them to a budget motel and having a deal with a male state psychologist on call. The men get the service they need without having to spend time in the tank with the women. Everyone is happy, including the taxpayer, as this is likely to not happen often enough to constitute a money burden.
 
2009-04-05 11:07:41 AM
Why are some women afraid to admit that domestic abuse against men is real, and that abused men deserve the same support as abused women?

I just don't get it...
 
2009-04-05 11:08:04 AM
dead_dangler: Anastacya: Call the cops? Broken cell phone.

I'm sorry, but this is the worst excuse I've ever heard in my life.


When someone rips the phone out of your hand and shatters it, you tell me how well it works for you, skippy.
 
2009-04-05 11:08:07 AM
tiamet4:
I still don't see the problem with having some separate shelters for women AND men.


And a lot of people in the south STILL don't see a problem with having separate schools for blacks and whites.fors
 
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